Feedback on the removal of ^^ mobs

[Arghi]

<DIV>With the removal of ^^ mobs from the majority of zones, my favorite duo of 'guardian + templar' has been reduced to being a guardian soloing with the templar doing his best impersation of a wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Occassionally, with back to back to back continuous fights I may warrant enough damage to need 1 heal.  So the templar is casting about 11 damage spells and 1 heal spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The powerful templar spells such as weakness and redoubt take so much mana and so long to cast that they are not useful now against all the solo mobs.  (You could have just killed it with DD by the time you get it debuffed).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No 'solo' fight has the potential to kill me, or even do significant damage.   The templar has many heal spells.... now you only need 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Put whatever spin you want on it, but these changes have destroyed the 'tank + healer' duo group.  Oh you can still group and kill stuff, but the healer is just a bad wizard most of the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sorentio]

What's stopping you from going after the dozens of heroic encounters that are still in each outdoor zone, or going to a dungeon to fight?<p>Message Edited by Sorentio on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:01 PM</span>

[ladeni]

I agree completely, I hate the changes. <div></div>

[initoci]

Why are they doing this, we give them compliments and they put hate on themselves

[aeio]

Sorry but there are tons of places to still hunt double up mobs for all level ranges. What level are you and I will be more than happy to offer you several suggestions. Hunting those double up outdoor mobs made you the very rare exception.  Almost nobody hunted them, so it was a lot of wasted content. There is still plenty of double up mobs for you to hunt if you so desire.  Nobody said you had to hunt the solo versions of the same mobs.  Find the double up mobs out there, or else fight higher level solo mobs. The choice is yours... <div></div>

[Proudfoot]

<span><blockquote><hr>initocian wrote:Why are they doing this, we give them compliments and they put hate on themselves <div></div><hr></blockquote>Do you play on Test? Do you know that Update 7, heroic arrowed mobs will kick your &#@? They're messing with the 'new combat' model and while its only in its first stage, the changes are noticable. They've also begun adjusting dungeon spawns, giving more diversity to dungeons. In the end though, it seems they are trying to thin out the number of heroics in any given area, but making them a lot more potent in their abilities (mainly by nerfing the players abilities). The result may be that there will be less overall heroics/uber mobs, but they will be alot tougher than a solo mob, canceling out alot of the soloers who kill green double-up mobs. The double up green/blues on Test right now are nasty mean because of the mitigation/avoidance changes... this is coming from a Guardian/Templar duo.</span><div></div>

[Arghi]

<P>No, I don't play on test, however since the powers that be decided to beta something on the live servers I came here to feedback their beta.</P> <P>The biggest problem I see is that you have these solo mobs intermixed with these harder mobs.  Soloers can't get to them because the ^^ mobs will kick their butts, and the group that can do the ^^ mobs just consider the solo mobs a nuisance.</P>

[Ay]

<DIV>Arghius hit the nail right on the head. Once again SoE proved they just dont think to hard about anything before they implement it. Sure they put in lots of solo content, but the put it in the middle of group mobs.. wow, way to go <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV> <DIV>Now, soloers cant get to the single mobs, and groups have to sift through gobs of trash to get to anything worth some experience to them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>yay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I swear sometimes i picture Gomer Pyle as lead Dev.</DIV>

[Sacha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ayun wrote:<BR> <DIV>Arghius hit the nail right on the head. Once again SoE proved they just dont think to hard about anything before they implement it. Sure they put in lots of solo content, but the put it in the middle of group mobs.. wow, way to go <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV> <DIV>Now, soloers cant get to the single mobs, and groups have to sift through gobs of trash to get to anything worth some experience to them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>yay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I swear sometimes i picture Gomer Pyle as lead Dev.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>It is an experiment. If it is successful it may be implemented. Don't get your knickers in a twist yet <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[aeio]

Actually solo mobs in the middle of group mobs is how the game used to be... Solo mobs are much more plentiful and accessible than before.. So I am still not getting the complaints. You lost your double up mobs, but complain it doesn't help soloers because they can't get to the solo mobs.  That is simply an untrue assessment of the change. <div></div>

[Trei]

Why not just upgrade yourselves and go for the OJ or red solos? Upgrade to a whole new zone even... <div></div>

[Havlen]

I think they might have gone a little overboard, especially in Antonica (well, antonica is the only real place I've been that has the changes).  Heck, the rotstuffed are individual now?  People were always grouping at the rot-stuffed. However, I never much cared for the implementaiton of "group" mobs anyway.   I thought it was a unique and inventive way of doing things, but not really the best way in my opinion.   Granted, my idea of the best way would be a total reworking of the game anyway to introduce tactics-based combat instead of finger-mashing combat. But, on the subject, I think the revamping has a ways to go.  If they are going to populate the outdoor areas with a lot of solo mobs they need to also populate it with a good amount of the 'hard' solo mobs (or small group mobs, or whatever you call it).  <div></div>

[Bewts]

They changed it because a 29 monk with semi decent gear, a few rares, adept3's.  Nothing fabled can solo a green con ^^ spider at the ent of RoV.  Essentially I pull, go AFK and come back when the battle sounds stop and do it again.  45% xp with vitality doing that last night and I didn't have to do a thing. Solo content IMO is an outside thing, group content is inside a dungeon.  Obviously there should be outside group content because dungeons will get packed with players.  See RoV golems on a peak time and you'll see 3 groups pulling the golems from 3 directions.  There has to be an overflow area. So again, solo content should only be an outside option, near aggro mobs with 'safe' pull spots.  Group encounters outside are along the same lines.  Keep the non aggro mobs along the basic travel routes people use to get around, with significantly less xp involved, or just not many mobs in the area (same effect as minimizing the xp for the non aggro mobs).  Everything in a dungeon should be tuned to a group encounter aka heroic.  The further in, the more difficult it gets.  No one should be able to zone in, and solo a green group encounter.  This happens and its a step in the right direction. <div></div>

[Arghi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trei49 wrote:<BR>Why not just upgrade yourselves and go for the OJ or red solos?<BR>Upgrade to a whole new zone even...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Because if you look at the actual xp reward for doing that, you will see that it's not worth while.   An orange maybe 3-4 times harder (aka time to kill) than a blue, but only give 50% more reward.  The fastest way to get xp is to chain-kill blue (or white) solo mobs that do almost no damage to me and provide zero challenge.</P> <P>I understand this is a test, and this is my feedback.  ("In Testing Feedback" is the forum i'm posting in).</P> <P> </P>

[Trei]

<div></div>Then go for the yellow ones? Anyway, right now I am running into a lot of group mobs that are not labeled heroic, but still give bonus exp when I kill them. Even the v ones. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Trei49 on <span class=date_text>04-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:57 PM</span>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>Why not just upgrade yourselves and go for the OJ or red solos?<BR>Upgrade to a whole new zone even...<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>because...I have been soloing solo red con mobs since well...day 2 when I started.  and the xp is not worth the effort, neither is the loot.    but it certainly was one green, blue and white^^ mobs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>btw  I avoid dungeons when I can.  and I cannot group in them, even with graphics turned down ALL the way so there is no such thing as  clear picture in game, and a T1 connection, I lag way to much, and I more than meet the game requirements, so I would prefer for those dungeons to not be the only placees I can go for xp.</DIV>

[ladeni]

The point is, its horrible, and making the game too solo friendly.  I love to solo...but the whole point of the game is the community.  If this makes the grouping in this game like WoW (group for a quest then disband) count me out. <div></div>

[Trei]

The other alternatives can also be downtiered <i>grouped</i> solo mobs like OJvv's or pairs of red v's. Tried those yet? Sorry but I still cannot see your problems with this change. It is not neccessary at all for EQ2 to turn into WoW for both casual gamers and the ones that have more time to play, to have equal fun. It can be done and the way I see it, this is exactly what will be happening. But to force players to group will never work. "...sure you can solo decently if you want to, but grouping is 2x more efficient.."   is far from being a viable option, in the practical sense. MMORPG means multiplayer, yes I am playing with other players and you. It however does not , and should not mean I have to be in a <i>group</i> with other players, or you. <div></div>

[aeio]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>JarredDarque wrote:<div>Why not just upgrade yourselves and go for the OJ or red solos?Upgrade to a whole new zone even...</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>because...I have been soloing solo red con mobs since well...day 2 when I started.  and the xp is not worth the effort, neither is the loot.    but it certainly was one green, blue and white^^ mobs</div><div> <hr></div><div> </div></blockquote>Soloing green group/heroic mobs has not been worthwhile compared to soloing blue/white/yellow solo mobs for some time now.  It is not even close.  Sure you get more experience for green group mobs, but they take MUCH longer to kill.  It used to be better solo lower group mobs, it is no longer more efficient and hasn't been for some time.</span><div></div>

[Fle]

<DIV>Well it's all about balance. I love to group but i also like to chill sometimes and solo. Having separate mobs for group and solo does create problems and its a pity they went this route. As long as they put equal measures of both in zones though ill be happy. Lavastorm could use some more solo encounters in my opinion. It's a very quiet zone on my server at the moment and the pickings are slim, once it gets more popular it will be a horrible place to try and solo.</DIV>

[LoreLady]

<DIV>"They changed it because a 29 monk with semi decent gear, a few rares, adept3's.  Nothing fabled can solo a green con ^^ spider at the ent of RoV.  Essentially I pull, go AFK and come back when the battle sounds stop and do it again.  45% xp with vitality doing that last night and I didn't have to do a thing" - Bewts</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is exaccly why they are doing the combat changes. I am a level 30 ranger, and I cannot fight a green ^^ mob without dieing, ever.  Where I listen to you who is 29, and has overlap on the scout class saying they just sit there really puts the combat changes into prospective for me. No class should be able to solo heroric mobs ever. SoE is doing just that. If you complain that the game is to much of a challange, find another way to do things to make it less of a challange.</DIV>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arghius wrote:<BR> <P>No, I don't play on test, however since the powers that be decided to beta something on the live servers I came here to feedback their beta.</P> <P>The biggest problem I see is that you have these solo mobs intermixed with these harder mobs.  Soloers can't get to them because the ^^ mobs will kick their butts, and the group that can do the ^^ mobs just consider the solo mobs a nuisance.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>huh ive gotten to plenty of solo content since the overland population change. In fact, I've actually been able to almost uncover the entire TS map fighting solo mobs that are blue-orange to me... Ive seen a ton of group mobs during that time, but they have not once interferred with my progress. Well, once, but that was my fault (never run forward while eating irl, with the camera pointed behind you [Removed for Content])

[Akacia]

<DIV>I agree this is a very bad move.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What really should have been done is make a heroic version of all these zones and if you want say this easier zones they implemented.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is no way even close to as much XP if you duo say for example my fiance and myself do on our alts in TS in the mid 20's at the moment and I have to kill almost 3 times the amount of mobs as I did killing a blue ^^ mob. To say its faster chain killing solo mobs in a two person group that I have tested over and over since the changes just isn't true at least for my combo of a Druid and Troubador.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have not logged in on those toons or for th emost part our mains since this was done as we enjoyed duoing and making good headway on the double arrow mobs, sure there is some out there but it isn't as consistant level wise as it should be, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You could at one time go down the path from the docks in TS and kill at level 25 ^^ blue, white, green mobs no problem all day long with solo ones blended in, now there is zero ^^ arrow mobs at all in this area. The next place to head for those is giants and giants are higher level for the most part and will kick your butt compared to these skels and such so it is out of balance from what I see.</DIV>

[froglockpalad]

<P>for one thing why did they change some of the ^^ to solo mobs that in my opinion din't need changing in the first place becuase there are tons of solo mobs same lvl wandering all over place allso gaints in ts should not be solo those areas of ts should be group areas not turn the entire ts to solors playground i say they went over board centuars are one thing but why did they have to change gaints ?</P><p>Message Edited by froglockpaladin on <span class=date_text>04-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 PM</span>

[Miral]

<P>only a few of the giants are solo, once you get in my the chief, theyre all groups like before.</P> <P> </P> <P>the only thing I hate about this is some if the down arrowed groups. plays hell on scouts that need to attack from behind... can usually only get it off on one of the monsters, and then its usually way overkill... at least with a predator's shadow blade adept 1... but solo content, bring it on by the truck full.</P>

[thorvang]

i like this change. the outdoor zones are now good for soloing, doing all these little quests, duoing etc. you're able to explore these zones on your own if you want to. some spots still have heroic mobs.if you want a more challenging fight with granted heroic mobs, go to some dungeon.a good way to not abuse soloers or groupers. there are zones for each kind of gameplay now.

[Pheeb]

I hate the changes as well - why removing these heroic encounters when you can add more non-heroic ones? why? I guess it was more simple for SOE to toggle a MOB property and make it non-heroic than adding new non-heroic ones - there are zones I NO longer go cos' there is NO challenge - I could solo heroic briarpraws in EL with a real challenge (close fight) or duo them was also challenging as well - was fun - now am skipping this zone and going to RV...In fact, the solo situation is worse IMO - there is NO more challenge - either you have to solo easy mobs (non-heroic) or now you have to group to solo heroic mobs which are 2-3 levels above you - I think it's great to group but I should not have to be forced to group when fighting an heroic encounter - these changes have removed the solo FUN - with these changes and when I was a 36 SK I could solo (like many others) 40 nightbloods easily (no challenge whatsoever) - I can't solo the 39^^ or 40^^ as I have to group obviously - so tell me how these changes have improved the solo part when they actually destroyed a lot of the fun (at least for me) - if others are enjoying killing non-challengin encounters, then good for them I guess.... <div></div>

[Miral]

well som epeople have different ideas of fun. personally I don't think spending several minutes per fight is fun, expecially when one resisted root can kill me. I prefer to pick my fights, small, varried, quick. Nothing says power like wiping out the entire population of a species in a matter of minutes!

[Pheeb]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Miral wrote:well som epeople have different ideas of fun. personally I don't think spending several minutes per fight is fun, expecially when one resisted root can kill me. I prefer to pick my fights, small, varried, quick. Nothing says power like wiping out the entire population of a species in a matter of minutes! <div></div><hr></blockquote>I respect that Miral but removing what others enjoy doing is going to make people unhappy - SOE could have added new encounters instead of removing some...</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Pheebau on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:32 AM</span>

[Miral]

they didnt really remove much, they mostly just moved stuff around, changed a few things between solo and heroic, and actually added stuff on either side. The only thing that seems to be removed is Highland stalkers (which I still havent gotten a reply on them fixing... one of the centaur lords quests requires these)

[Pheeb]

<span><blockquote><hr>Miral wrote:they didnt really remove much, they mostly just moved stuff around, changed a few things between solo and heroic, and actually added stuff on either side. The only thing that seems to be removed is Highland stalkers (which I still havent gotten a reply on them fixing... one of the centaur lords quests requires these) <div></div><hr></blockquote>What I meant is that they removed the "Heroic" aspect of some the encounter(s) - they could have left those and added more of the non-heroic ones...</span><div></div>

[imready2go]

<P>I don't play on Test, but read the Test forums closely to see what's coming down the road.</P> <P>I solo a lot, and from what I've seen already on the Live servers it looks like Sony went a bit overboard with downgrading the mobs.  Even going solo, things seem a bit too easy.  (I dropped a grouped pair of orange-con ancient treants yesterday, no problem - couldn't do that a few weeks ago.)  If the changes are worse on Test, then I forsee serious troubles ahead.  Sony just can't seem to find a balance between solo and group content without going to one extreme or the other.</P> <P>I almost long for the days of EQ1.  You could con a mob and get a feel for how tough it would be, then <STRONG>make your own decision</STRONG> as to whether you would need some friends to take the mob down.  And socialability of mobs made strategy that much more important (would it bring 0 friends or half the zone with it - always fun to guess).  You had to actually think about ways to kill a mob, rather then just mindlessly smashing buttons.  The entire group and arrow process in EQ2 seems forced and poorly cobbled together, as though Sony created the system to please the marketing types, not because it makes any real sense in-game.</P>

[Arghi]

<P>I searched for an hour through Enchanted lands.   The seeds, the treant things, the octopus, bears, wasps, rat-squirrels... all solo now where they used to have group ones.  The only things with ^ arrows were named mobs.  Now just think how many groups that can handle a ^^ named mob roam around outside where there are almost no ^^ mobs at all.</P> <P>This game is so artificial with all its grouping and combat rules its annoying.</P>

[Miral]

Now I can't speak for EL since I haven't been ther,e but the main problem I've noticed is people aren't exploring all that much. They go to the usual camps that have been considered THE overland xp spots since release, notice that those particular mobs are now solo, and then complain about all the group mobs turning solo. An example is Antonica. People got [Removed for Content] off because the scarecrows now had some solos in among them, and started ranting about how all of the group mobs are gone. What they don't take time to notice, however, is that almost all gnolls and highwaymen and a lot of other things are still group. Also, there are a LOT of "small group" and "advanced solo" mobs, that are a lot better than plain solo stuff. This includes mobs with a single ^, 2x flat mobs, and groups of down arrow mobs. These mobs DO give more xp than solo encounters, and are great for groups of 1-4, for example. They definitely give encounter bonuses, and I believe the base xp value is also higher. And the smaller ther group, the bigger the challenge from these. Solo on a ^ mob or 2x flat mob is much fun, indeed, and can net over 1% each on blue-yellow... <DIV>Also in a lot of cases the mobs are aggro and wander around, definitely makes it more challenging. Its almost like a race against the clock at times to take out that last gnoll and get out of the way before another gnoll group comes wandering up to you...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:55 PM</span>

[Ashrot]

I personally like the change, it gives me a chance to actually complete a quest solo before the mobs are all gray. I solo a lot due to RL considerations and hate to leave a group with an afk member any time, but it happens. I still find more than a few mobs that i can not kill as they are still heroic, you just have to look around for them now. Anyways, Thank you SOE, I am enjoying being able to play.

[Kylary]

<DIV>Personally, I think, if you want to solo all the time or even the majority of the time, you should play Morrowind or something like that. This game was good. It could have been great. Now, the way it's going, it's quickly losing its appeal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night, my fiance and I played alts and took on "heroic" groups of mobs in Antonica at level 13, we had to literally pull two groups at a time to keep from falling asleep, it was that easy. And even that was extremely easy. They took ^ and ^^ mobs and made them regular, no arrow up mobs or down arrow mobs. I was sick when I saw it. I was sick when I saw what they did to the witherstraws and the rottstuffed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We had to kill level 17's at level 13/14 just for a challenge. And even that was not a challenge. We should have died, and had to group to accomplish what we did duo. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's disgusting what they have done to the game dynamics. This is NOT a solo game. Sure, you may solo sometimes, but overall, this was a game where you had to group to accomplish things. And it was just fine that way. But as usual, Sony likes to listen to people who "don't have enough time to play" or "want to solo" in a game designed for grouping.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hello! It's an mmorpg.. you should NEED a group to kill the mobs we were killing last night and we duo'ed them. Pretty sad when what used to almost kill you cannot even touch you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can get plenty done solo even at our level, they do not need to penalize everyone who wants to group just because they can't get a group at a moment's notice. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why destroy a game cause people want to solo? This keeps up, Sony will lose it's all time players and only have those left with limited time to play who complained that they wanted to solo and couldn't get a group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You never penelize the many to reward the few. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I were Sony, I would stop listening to people who complain they can't get a group, they have no time, they can't complete a quest solo. Boo hoo!!  Go play something designed for that type of player. But do NOT destroy a game that was just fine before all these changes.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kylaryia on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:53 PM</span>

[Ikta]

<DIV><FONT size=2>Being Alorah's fiance and being there for that atrocity that was heroic groups of mobs in Antonica, I think it's safe to say that this population and removal of ^^ mobs and challenge is death to the grouping game. We started in Antonica, with the purpose to do challenging quests as a duo like you could even solo.  We approached <U>yellow</U> con Heroic encounter gnolls.  I got the crazy idea, that since they were FOUR down arrows and one regular, that I would attempt it, fighter and priest.  Needless to say, they died.  We continued slaughtering gnolls until our 14th season, where we needed to find a better challenge than TWO heroic groups at a time. We went across the zone, picked up the gnoll mastery quest and laughed at the orange solo mobs that came after us, and ended up near the ruins of caltorsis where many level 17-18 encounters reside.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>We were emboldened by the first experiance with the gnolls, so we pulled and killed with no problem whatsoever, my health being the tank never dropped below 50% on an orange heroic encounter with a duo.  This is two people killing things that should be for 3-6 people, and it's wrong to me.  This IS NOT about solo vs. group, because on our mains, Alorah and I solo'd all the time before this nerf (and yes, it is a nerf, of the difficulty of this game, again.) and we are both level 30+  We even duo'd quests quite a bit, and had NO problems finding a group for a non conventional quest. It's called friends.  Before you get on the kick of they're not on all the time or not everyone has friends, let me just say that even if you can't find a friend, there's generally AT LEAST 30-40 people on LFG pre update.  Now, there's maybe 20 people post update, and it's not because there's more groups of people killing things, it's that people CAN'T find a group outside of a dungeon now because there's no content for a group to kill outside.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I have played EQ1 and EQ2 for a combination of 5 and a half years, and I loved both games until they were made to be very poorly made based on listening to every single customer complaint they got about their game.  In EQ1 it was casual vs uber and access to zones, and they opened up PoP to everyone, after a large group of casual players made Elemental access.  It was a blow to the head, just like this heroic encounter nerf.  If people REALLY wanted this because of quests and completing them, they would have found a way to do it, it's called inginuity and thinking outside the box.  Hell, if you really wanted to kill a heroic encounter solo and not get exp for it, I can think of a way to do it, and have used it before.  Don't pull an EQ1 on me again, I was very loyal to that game, and very loyal to this game.  Here it's WoW vs EQ2 and I think, that in the end WoW will win if you continue to cater to everyone's opinion on how time in game needs to be spent.  Yes, I agree solo content should be there.  I don't think this was called for, like I said, my fiance and I found plenty of things to do duo/solo pre nerf, so I don't understand the solo complaint nor will I.  If you want a solo game, go play morrowind or a console RPG, don't complain and ruin a great challenging game.</FONT></DIV>

[LadyEternity]

<P>I like the changes. I think they are great. I have been all over Antonica, Commonlands, TS and Nek and I have seen plenty of ^^ mobs. Plenty of heroic groups and plenty of things for groups to kill. Now on test alot of downarrowed encounters are labeled heroic. So that's even more group content. Anytime you have a tank/healer combo, you are going to have it easy. I know, because my husband and I have a guardian/templar combo. I personally think it's yawns-ville and way to easy. Shoot, we were killing yellow and orange heroic encounters just the two of us in Nek before the combat changes.</P> <P>My main is a Necromancer. I usually duo with my husbands fury. We get a decent challenge from killing the downarrowed and non-arrowed groups of monsters. Exp flows fine, as does the loot. If we were in a bigger group I would just move to harder encounters.</P> <P>Nothing in any game is going to be just 'handed' to the player. I have heard many people complain about the 'lack' of group mobs. But the reality is they are there, you just have to go find appropriate targets for your groups make-up, and if going into a dungeon or instance designed to meet that challenge is nessesary, then so be it. I find nothing wrong with it. Group play should NOT be the core foundation in any game that is not a 'niche' game. It's just not reasonable. I understand that a few people group alot, and they want the content right there at all times for them to participate in, with the least amount of effort in finding it. And if EQ2 was meant to be a 'group only' game, then I would agree that the changes made to the game to date are way over the top, and unreasonable. However, I don't see any reason why SOE would create another 'niche' game when they already have one that has tons of content and years behind it. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. It would not make good economical sense to draw in playerbase from a game that is still currently in full-swing, actively adding in content via exspansions, to a new game they have developed...thus bring the population in the first down. They want new accounts, new faces and to expand their clientel...not move the existing clientel over to a newer game.</P> <P>The reality is that in a game such as this there is a wide spread of player types, and a wide spread of play styles. By making the game accessible to all those playstyles they insure that their playerbase will be diverse and varied..and thus their income potential larger. And to make the game accessible to everyone, the base game must be designed for the base player. Grouping and raids, and other 'advanced' styles of play have to be addressed once the base game has been provided for and taken care of. And that, in my opinion, is exactly what SOE is doing.</P> <P>Lady Eternity</P>

[Kylary]

<DIV>"Nothing in any game is going to be just 'handed' to the player."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You're missing the entire point... the game is now being HANDED to every player. It is now way too easy. If I wanted to kill masses of mobs just for the hell of it, I would go play a console game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 13/14, Antonica should  be a challenge. And it was not. It's just too easy now. And it's getting easier by the day. If I want no challenge, if I want to mass murder grouped mobs without my health dropping at all, what is the point of playing? And Thundering Steppes is a playground for those that just want to play hopscotch with no real challenge to anything they kill. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Because some people don't have as much time to play, or afk a lot, EVERYONE is being penilized by the extensive nerfing. And that is not fair to any player that logs on. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And why should the people who want to group have to go into a dungeon for a challenge? The game was great for both solo content and group content. BEFORE this nerf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those ^^ arrow mobs you're talking about? They've been scaled down so even they are no longer a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think, solo content is fine. Just don't make everything a solo encounter. Even heroic encounters are terribly easy now. The game should go back to the challenge it was and that Sony promised it would be. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We aren't saying it should be a "group-only" game. We are saying it was fine with the challenging encounters that they had before this last patch. Now, there is no challenge. And it's becoming a no point to play game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/shrug.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kylaryia on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:26 AM</span>

[Bloodtear]

I have to say I've been enjoying the changed content.  I've had a much broader variety of critters to engage, and I've been able to complete several quests.  I've also seen many more people adventuring around me.  I've actually seen several full groups in TS where before it seemed like I was almost always alone.  The changes seem to have increased the player population in the zone - it's been nice.

[Theramor-GoV]

<DIV>NOTE -- I haven't played on Test much....but I do read the boards and this change has been at least partially moved over to Live</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My main is a 32 Paladin.  I've also got a 17 Summoner and recently a 10 Brawler.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I remember going to the Thundering Steppes before this change went out....hanging out in Thundermist Valley....dodging the group mobs to get the singles while soloing....and considering it a good challenge to find what I wanted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also considered it a feather in my cap when I was able to solo the ^^ Green Firerocks, Griffons, and then the Mighty Griffions.  I was even able to take out nearly solo a barely grey Bloodtalon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My armour was white and above, weapon and shield were also.  Rest of gear was at least blue.  Combat Arts were mostly Adept I.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was a challenge, but it was a fun challenge.  Yes, I did get my rear handed to me on occasion, but I was able to do what I needed to when I wanted to regardless if I was solo or grouped.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now when I go there all I see are solo mobs until I get up to or around the Bridge 5-spawn.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I think the change has some merit, but I think they went overboard a little.  I think there are some parts of the outdoor zones that really should be group based and others more solo based.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do like what they've done in Antonica for instance.  They changed the Crows near the city gates to singles (and possibly upped their level - not sure of that).  They also made the Rat and Viper Nests all soloable as well (tho they need to add rewards for clearing those camps like the Gnoll Tents in TS).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think having it setup so that lots of solo mobs near "safe zones" or on the fringes of major concentrations is a good idea, but I think the occasional heroic pops in those area would be a good thing as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I'd like to start seeing more ^ and  ^^ as well as V and VV Solo mobs (and groups of mobs for individuals) as well.  There should be more of a variation in the mob strengths.  I feel it helps to keep the soloers on their toes and gives then a chance to learn more about the abilities (and limitations) of their class -- which makes stronger players in the long run.  I know that I learned alot about playing my Paladin and how to do things from when I did the ^^ Green Heroics.  If this idea goes into effect then maybe you could have an increased box chance from the tougher mobs as well as a chance that it could be from the Heroic drop list instead of the solo drop list....tho that would have to be considered rare.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In other words, I feel its a step in the right direction, but it needs to be toned back just a little.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>T</DIV>

[imready2go]

<P>Theramor, among several others, has a valid idea:<BR>"I think having it setup so that lots of solo mobs near "safe zones" or on the fringes of major concentrations is a good idea, but I think the occasional heroic pops in those area would be a good thing as well."</P> <P>Along the edges of a zone or near the ZLs you should find mostly solo mobs, so those people new to the zone can get used to the zone before moving in for the tougher stuff and soloers have reasonable numbers of mobs to hunt.  Throw in an occasional heroic spawn (random would be much better than static) to keep these folks on their toes.  As characters move further away from the edge of zone or ZLs, the mobs become tougher with groups and single ups.  Even deeper, most mobs would be grouped heroic double up encounters, with occassional pops of solo mobs (again random) or even random named just for variety.  This "tiered" method of mob distribution makes the most sense since everyone has something to hunt, there is still variety so things don't get boring, and the distribution of tough mobs has some sort of logic (the deeper you go in the zone, the tougher it should be - right?).</P> <P>Why does this not seem to make sense to Sony?</P>

[Stonedreamer]

<DIV>I am a templar and I believe they went out of control on solo mobs cause like was posted before they are just in the way most of the time and of course quite a few are behind ^^ mobs which makes no sense , if there is such a need for so many then make even more solo instances , but in my opinion they are killing the mid lvl grouping cause many that i have seen complain , complain they they get tired of killing solo mobs to get to group mobs and groups don't last long, solo mobs being kill by a group is such garbage exp and people get sick of it and just go do other things. They really need to invest some time and look at how people are reacting to this , just seems alot less group mobs and 100 times solo mobs. Maybe if they would listen to more  of the people that are not even 20 yet or that are 50 but the ones in between they would get a clue. Thing that i have notice over time is most of complaints come from people that are not even lvl 20 yet and that is their main. Post a complaint when you get lvl 30 or higher cause you haven't seen nothing yet. Think it is bad where your at in anotnica wait till you got to the other zones it's even worst. but to the Dev get a clue don't go so overboard when adding something to the game . Some nerfs i can agree with some others are just to much . Maybe it time you listened to everyone and not the few.</DIV>

[Theramor-GoV]

<DIV>An idea I got over lunch........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have it setup so that if the party of three members or more is in close proximity together (not scattered in the zone but say in spell casting range for example), that all "individual" type mobs become non-aggro -- ie they recognize that there is a group present and they don't want to get involved with a group knowing full well that any group could wipe up an individual mob with ease.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That way, the groups can move quickly thru solo based content, which would be available for the soloers to take on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I realize that this could be seen as a possible exploit in order to get to areas of quest items, resource spawn, etc....but since they have to stay in close proximity and they lose their "protection" when outside of that range or when not grouped, it may not be that much of a big deal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Opinions??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>T</DIV>

[Axhine]

<DIV>my 2 cent I also believe that the change was way to drastic the outdoor zones are a joke now it is  sad but you can't group in these zones for xp now you are forced to find a dungeon.  Feerrott is a joke now and camping a rare mob (i.e. Agony) sucks now for a group because you can't gain any xp  I like the idea adding more solo mobs but removing pretty much all of the group mobs is crazy imo I think you guys should add some of the challenge back to these zones bring back at least some of the group content for them. </DIV>

[Docdoertee]

<P>In my opinion it´s okay to keep solo-content to outside zones and group-content into dungeons ... BUT ... every dungeon is so crowded nowadays, that it´s even hard to find mobs sometimes. Dungeons should be exploring ... danger ... </P> <P>But if you run around the corner you see a group killing mobs. You go in a bit further, you find the next group. There is no feeling of dungeon crawling anymore, it´s rather a feeling you sitting in a small bus during the rush hour.</P> <P>If on the one hand you make outdoor zones easier, a lot more group-unfriendly, please make various instances of dungeons. Varsoon or Runnyeye on weekends has more player in it than mobs. Running outside with a group is useless, because you just maw through the easy mobs now. Honestly this way the game gets too boring for me.</P>

[SavarosStormwi]

i have to agree with the original poster. i often duo aswell in the said combination and i am the one in the templa shoes. EL has been one of our favorite zones. its a beautiful place and has lots of caster ones. in the old heroic days, it was pretty fun and challenging to adventure. i actually HAD to heal. now this days are gone. the solo mobs posses no challenge, which is fine, as they also have no exp,  if you are in a group. i am downgraded to a wizard maybe 20levels below me. its not even really exp that pisses me off, although i love to see my exp bar move after a challenging fight. it is IMMERSION! i mean c'mon, im moving around in some supposed to be dangerous area, but all i have to watch is that no named or raid mob pops on my head? even orange or red solo mobs are no danger, i just ran past them till they stop chasing me. i eventually cant kill them, as they resist all my spells, but were is the thrill gone of sneaking slowly deeper in a dangerous zone or fighting your way there? EQ2 is on the way to becoming more and more trivial and thats not good. im all for giving soloers their places, but the deeper you move into a zone, the stronger the need for atleast a small group should be. i know there are still heroics in the dungeons and yes, dungeons are dangerous places to be, especially because of the trains. but i dont see, why i should be forced to go to a dungeon, only because i want a challenge. why would i lose all outdoor areas to the soloers? i read here that some people have now solo unlocked most of the map in TS...yes, why is it possible, that you can go solo everywhere? do you remember that we had to prove ourselves worthy before to set foot on places like EL, ZEK, Feerott....places where almost everyone is worthy to go now, after the recent changes to population? why would i need a group for a boatride, when i have no use for one, once i arrive at that zone? Soloers should be the ones to have to move around carefully, but as long as you have to search for heroic encounters with magnifying glasses, thats not the case. balance is the keyword and atm things are completely out of balance. this goes for all the zones i frequently visit, EL, Zek, Ferrott. <div></div>

[Genarhof]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kylaryia wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's disgusting what they have done to the game dynamics. This is NOT a solo game. Sure, you may solo sometimes, but overall, this was a game where you had to group to accomplish things. And it was just fine that way. But as usual, Sony likes to listen to people who "don't have enough time to play" or "want to solo" in a game designed for grouping.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I were Sony, I would stop listening to people who complain they can't get a group, they have no time, they can't complete a quest solo. Boo hoo!!  Go play something designed for that type of player. But do NOT destroy a game that was just fine before all these changes.<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually, I think SOE listening to every player in the game before they made these changes.</P> <P>I have 2 accounts, sometimes I play them both at the same time, most of the time I play one until vitality has ran out, then play the other.</P> <P>A while ago, I logged on to one account, and had a survey pop up, asking about how I like to play the game, do I like to solo, do I like to join small groups, do I like to join large groups, that sort of thing.</P> <P>I filled out that survey, then logged on my other account, and again had the same survey pop up, asking the same questions, so I filled it out again.</P> <P>I asked everyone I know ingame at the time, if they had the survey too, all of them said yes, so I guess everyone got the same survey.</P> <P>I also guess the majority of the player base filled the survey in, saying they like to solo, or join small groups.</P> <P>So it seems SOE took the information from that survey, and made the changes to to some group mobs, making them solo mobs, to fit in with how the survey was filled out.</P> <P>Maybe SOE should have also asked what sort of mob players liked to take on at the same time as asking if they group or not, maybe that would have given a better overall picture of how people are playing, as I cant help thinking that a lot of people that said they prefer to solo/duo, only did so to take on green ^^, for the better xp.<BR></P>

[Ramsy02]

<span><blockquote><span><blockquote><hr>JarredDarque wrote:<div>Why not just upgrade yourselves and go for the OJ or red solos?Upgrade to a whole new zone even...</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>because...I have been soloing solo red con mobs since well...day 2 when I started.  and the xp is not worth the effort, neither is the loot.    but it certainly was one green, blue and white^^ mobs</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>btw  I avoid dungeons when I can.  and I cannot group in them, even with graphics turned down ALL the way so there is no such thing as  clear picture in game, and a T1 connection, I lag way to much, and I more than meet the game requirements, so I would prefer for those dungeons to not be the only placees I can go for xp.</div><hr></blockquote></span><hr></blockquote>T1 connection has nothing to do with lag factor at all. I use basic cable connection and don't lag. Seems like you need to upgrade your cpu. WHich i understand people cant do or wont do because of 1 game they play  , which is understandable.  If you are able to solo the blue/even/green con solo mobs with ease.. its seems like this balance patch will make it more challenging for you. so we will have harder solo mobs with crappy exp. yayayay</span><div></div>

[Belkeirun]

<P>Hello</P> <P>Last night me and a group of friends took some lower level alts on a jaunt around antonica with the aim of getting from 19th to 20th.  If I said we had afun packed evening Id be lying like a carpet.  We ended up wandering round Antonica, Stormhold, and the endterence areas of Thundering steps looking for suitable level encounters of group mobs to kill.  In antonica the groups capped out at 17/18th lvl so when you did find one to kill the xp was pretty bad, and finding them was the challenge, as too many mobs had been changed from heroic to solo encounters, I mean why change BOTH scarecrow fields into solo encounters??</P> <P>So after a fruitless earch for xp we ventured into TS, all the undead in the fields at the start....solo encounters....gnolls in the pits....95% of them solo encounters....groups dont get anything close to worthwhile xp on solo encounters....ok we thought lets try stormhold...</P> <P>Stormhold, all the enterence mobs are now solo...woohoo....we had to venture down to lvl 2 of sormhold before finding heroic encounters and they were too hard for our group.  At this point the group was soo [Removed for Content] off that we disbanded, with the exception of my self and one other mate, we went back to the crows and duo'd them for 20 mins....in which time we got more xp than we had in the previous 2 hours trying to find/kill group encounters.</P> <P>If your getting that sorta xp for solo encounters then wots the point of groups?!?</P> <P>Sony needs to rethink its entire mobs system...they need to get rid of heroic mobs and when a character pulls a mob 'dynamically' decide how many of that mob type attack based on the size of the characters group, otherwise they will NEVER find a balance between solo/group encounters.</P> <P> </P>

[Anlari]

Personaly, I'd like to see almost all the heroic mobs gone.  The idea of there being that many is just stupid in my opinion.  I have no problem making soloers stick to green and blue cons to be effective to counteract this, but I always hated that group/solo tag to distinguish.

[dhvyse000]

I hope this change doesn't affect ROV mobs as well as other dungeons. (i love my group encounters and then ^^ right across the hall, group encounters for more chests/loot, and ^^ mobs for better xp in my group) =)

[IsmeldaLasomb]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Genarhofen wrote:<BR><BR> <P>Actually, I think SOE listening to every player in the game before they made these changes.</P> <P>I have 2 accounts, sometimes I play them both at the same time, most of the time I play one until vitality has ran out, then play the other.</P> <P>A while ago, I logged on to one account, and had a survey pop up, asking about how I like to play the game, do I like to solo, do I like to join small groups, do I like to join large groups, that sort of thing.</P> <P>I filled out that survey, then logged on my other account, and again had the same survey pop up, asking the same questions, so I filled it out again.</P> <P>I asked everyone I know ingame at the time, if they had the survey too, all of them said yes, so I guess everyone got the same survey.</P> <P>I also guess the majority of the player base filled the survey in, saying they like to solo, or join small groups.</P> <P>So it seems SOE took the information from that survey, and made the changes to to some group mobs, making them solo mobs, to fit in with how the survey was filled out.</P> <P>Maybe SOE should have also asked what sort of mob players liked to take on at the same time as asking if they group or not, maybe that would have given a better overall picture of how people are playing, as I cant help thinking that a lot of people that said they prefer to solo/duo, only did so to take on green ^^, for the better xp.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I did also mention that i like duo or little group, but with those i could take mobs ^^ (not always green far from it as till 20 you just could solo green ^^) so, unless all replied they just wanted to solo and never have a group of 6 people, i don't see so much the point of removing all those mobs. Adding new content, new solo mobs ok, just making mobs we used to group for to kill solo seems on the other hand pointless.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Morever, yesterday with a little group of 4 (Guardian lvl 49, Assassin lvl 48, Warden lvl 47 and Coercer lvl 47) we did take an epic mob lvl 47 ^^^ group x2 (the named spirit protector of stags in Everfrost). It was very fun as we could do it. All doing its job to the perfection, the guardian keeping the aggro, warden keeping the tank alive, Assassin doing its dps job, and most of all the coercer nuking and keeping the level of power of the group high.</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>The feeling of success was far more plentyfull defeating a mob that was supposed to wack us that deafeating a simple ^^ mob. Now if in duo you can take only solo mobs, where is the thrill ? Where is the feeling of achievement and glory. Little group gives more fun because things are supposed to be harder for them when they target mobs that are supposed to be taken by full group (and once again not green).</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Larger groups are good for dungeons and adds management. They also can be very fun when you get overwhelmed and all manage to survive because of a good group cohesion, each one knowing his job and duties to make the group survive.</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Any kind of play can be fun as long it propose some real challenge. Solo mobs must be a higher than yourself to give you that thrill, in duo situation you must target green to white group mob to gives you some challange, with a group of 3 you can target up to orange and begining with 4 you can do as well as any goup of 6 except for adds.</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Well that's my opinion on real challanges that make you feel good after being victorious. If it's just for xp grinding, anything you can take easy is good i guess.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by IsmeldaLasombra on <span class=date_text>04-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:49 AM</span>

[Theramor-GoV]

<P>(Note -- I did this on Live, but posting here because I do play on Test sometimes and I don't want this situation to repeat itself)</P> <P>Last night one of my characters dinged 20 and I started working on AQ1</P> <P>Had to do Caltorisis Clerics and Sabertooth Elders in Antonica.</P> <P>I was able to do it very easily solo....even clearing the Gnoll Tents of ^^ Green Heroic Groups.......and even had the satisfaction of taking down the Sabertooth Pack Lord (^^ Blue Heroic group) solo.</P> <P>.....and the entire time I was bored because it was such an easy thing to do.....</P> <P>I can see that there needs to be a way for those who either don't have the time or choose not to group to be able to accomplish what they want to in EQ2.  But in my opinion, the game is getting way to easy too soon.  </P> <P>I am a long time veteran of MMORPGs (EQ1, CoH, WoW Beta, and UO) so the basic game mechanics and strats come pretty easy, but if there are little if any challenges in the game to me it doesn't feel "heroic".  That's one reason I don't play WoW anymore.  You can completely solo everything you want all the way to 60 without ever needing a group until you want to do named (and by then if you've never grouped your completely lost as to how to work in a group).</P> <P>Just food for thought......</P> <P> </P> <P>T</P>