Game devs need to creat a sandbox server

[Blackdog183]

<DIV>With the upcoming major changes to the way that the core combat sytem of this game will be operating, there needs to a new sandbox server created.  This servers primary purpose should be the testing of these changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Many players, especially high level ones have said they will not move their chars to test.  They would however be willing to copy them.  As yet SOE has ignored these suggestions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My suggestion is that SOE create a new empty server, and allow players to either COPY their chars to this server to test the changes.  My second suggestion, if they are unwilling to do the first is to create a new server, and much like in SWG, allow players to talk with an npc(in SWG it was a terminal) and set level/gear etc so they can go and test these changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a very important change and needs to be tested very carefully, and most of all, it needs to be done right.  To be very honest, test server doesent have enough players to test changes, that is why we are seeing such problems get though to the live servers.  The additionsal fact, is that SOE rarely listenes to their testers on what is/is not working.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope that Moorgard takes these suggestions seriously, as much like the AGI nerf, you guys have a strong potential to screw the pooch on this(like you did with the AGI nerf), and honestly I for one am tired of it.</DIV>

[Fennir]

From what I gather, the current population on Test is not only unequipped size-wise to deal with the changes, but also mentality-wise.  It seems almost as if many of those who play there consider themselves less 'testers' and more 'special people who get to see new stuff first and avoid all those dummies who have to deal with a real server economy.'  I'm in no way suggesting the entire population is like that at all, that is just the feeling I get. Part of me is glad that SOE has at least copied a major guild over to test high-end content, but with a complete combat revamp, there really needs to be tons more people of every level and class playing on that server constantly for us to get any real testing or feedback accomplished. The problem is probably two-fold: one, they may not have it in their budget to create a whole new Test2 server at the moment to appease those of us who want copies, and two (which ties into one), for some reason they seem unwilling to disrupt the current Test population with a bunch of people who won't stay long and/or make a commitment to continual testing. I hope this situation changes, as I would be very happy to help test out the new system. <div></div>

[Sebastien]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:From what I gather, the current population on Test is not only unequipped size-wise to deal with the changes, but also mentality-wise.  It seems almost as if many of those who play there consider themselves less 'testers' and more 'special people who get to see new stuff first and avoid all those dummies who have to deal with a real server economy.'  I'm in no way suggesting the entire population is like that at all, that is just the feeling I get. Part of me is glad that SOE has at least copied a major guild over to test high-end content, but with a complete combat revamp, there really needs to be tons more people of every level and class playing on that server constantly for us to get any real testing or feedback accomplished. The problem is probably two-fold: one, they may not have it in their budget to create a whole new Test2 server at the moment to appease those of us who want copies, and two (which ties into one), for some reason they seem unwilling to disrupt the current Test population with a bunch of people who won't stay long and/or make a commitment to continual testing. I hope this situation changes, as I would be very happy to help test out the new system. <div></div><hr></blockquote> My initial encounters on Test were along these lines yes.  As you said, I'm sure there are some diligent folks here too.  But for the most part there is very little "testing" that goes on with the Test server, other than SOE's ability to record observations and debug code while it's there. For a while now I have wondered how the heck some of these bugs and errors get past the Test server stage, and now I think it is really clear to me why that has continued to happen, patch after patch. SOE needs to make more of a commitment to this aspect of their quality control. One solution I propose is to offer something like double-exp weekends, at the very least, in order to encourage some people to make characters on Test.  Another solution, which works well for some other developers, is to invite a few guilds to have their characters copied over.  They are the ones who can help you test raid encounters anyway, they are often very sensitive to not just one class, but all of them, and if you get the right guild(s), the quality of feedback will be very high. Like I said, there is no doubt in my mind that this stage in the quality control process is not being utilized.</span><div></div>

[ShortbusRid]

I am not sure of the quality on this test server but playing on eqlive test server i can tell you that a lot of bug reports either get ignored or are not looked at and are pushed to live servers.  I and many other sbugged many things that never got fixed and went live.  The test server may be lacking numbers, quality, etc but I will bet a pretty penny that many bugs are reported and not fixed for whatever reason by the devs before live. <div></div>

[Blackdog183]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ShortbusRider wrote:<BR>I am not sure of the quality on this test server but playing on eqlive test server i can tell you that a lot of bug reports either get ignored or are not looked at and are pushed to live servers.  I and many other sbugged many things that never got fixed and went live.  The test server may be lacking numbers, quality, etc but I will bet a pretty penny that many bugs are reported and not fixed for whatever reason by the devs before live.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes I agree that they dont listen to their testers, thats been proven time and again.  On the same note, its alot harder to excuse 100k+ bug reports on the same topic than it is to simply not acknowldge their shoddy test procedures and lack of proper QA.  Simply put, they can chose to ignore a couple hundred /bug reports from their testers, they do it daily.  What they fail to realize is that when they ignore ther testers and push it to live, they then manage to [Removed for Content] off everyone on live, and they cant ignore the 100K+ bug reports and the multitude of posts in the forums on te topic.</P> <P>SOE needs to sit down and rethink their testing and quality control procedures.  As it stands now, their test methods JUST DONT WORK.  That is why the sheer number of bugs that make it to live do just that.  No I dont mean little annoying bugs, I mean huge bugs, that have forced the devs to bring down the servers within minutes or hours of the patch(see stein of mogguk).  I have seen testers post about a bug days before the patch, and that particular bug goes live anyway....thats an issue.</P>

[Demothis]

I'm not so sure it's really the Devs that need to be adreessed here, most of the devs that you see post on the forum seem to address an issue promptly and quickly, such as owlchick, fiznick (sorry if I butchered your handle, brain fart and cant remember the spelling) and the few others I have seen post on the boards. It is more likley somebody filtering out the reports befor the devs even see it so as not to waste thier time. This isn't a bad Idea, but if the person/persons being the go between arnt doing thier jobs right and not stressing real issues over the easy fixes.  In all honesty it wouldn't suprise me 1 bit if the GMs are the ones who filter these out since not 1 of the customer service personal that I have delt with is any help at all. These particular indaviduals seem to not understand the game at all and they are supposed to be supplying customer service to it. I keep invisioning these people sitting in a call center type environment with feedbak, bug reports/ andCS tickets falling into a buffer on computer screens and inapropriatly handling it, kinda like certain internet companies that will remain unmention. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, please test the living hell out of this, listen to your testers, and do it right the 1st time, this big of a change if inappropriatly  done will seriously hurt the confidence the players have for the game.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Demothises on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:07 PM</span>

[adrian]

Even more fundamental, they need this place to have testers only posting - otherwise, you get wave after wave of players giving opinions on potential impact, without getting sound feedback from actual experience. It is a massive problem from what I can see, and it dillutes the effectiveness of the testing community. <div></div>

[Fennir]

Um, there is a forum for only testers to post in.  It's called "request from the devs," and it always gets a buttload less posts than this forum. <div></div>

[majinvegeta52]

<P>Take a page from DAoC </P> <P> </P> <P>Char_copy from live to test ability..  and a TESTER only passworded forum for your testers only.</P> <P>I didnt even know the forum existed till I started sending /bug reports in that game and a CSR told me I need to goto this addy.. type in this pass for access  ect..</P> <P> </P> <P>OMG the posts on that forum were generally helpful, none of the flamming BS that happens on alot of forums, AND stuff got tested..  IT Wasnt perfect, but its better then your current system.</P> <P> </P>

[Proudfoot]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:Um, there is a forum for only testers to post in.  It's called "request from the devs," and it always gets a buttload less posts than this forum. <div></div><hr></blockquote>That's not the Testers forum. If you don't play on Test you can't see it.</span><div></div>

[Miral]

coulda sworn I suggested the second option in the OP a couple days ago =P maybe it was on the testers-only board i dono <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit: wow I can't type tonight</DIV><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>04-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:56 AM</span>

[Ay]

<P>There is no question here. EQ2 Devs have shown themselves to be nothing more than ARTISTS. They put too much emphasise on making females arses hot hot hot, instead of actually planning class balance, planning a rigorous test server system, etc. They just dont think logically about game mechanics and they lack the common sense about what needs to be done to test things out.</P> <P>But dang.. those female elves are hot <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Nice job SoE...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>