Give all scouts group invis

[Zork Phobos]

<DIV>If you are going to nerf our invis so that we need to bring a group to talk to any NPC in hostile territory, then you should give all scouts (and perhaps all invis classes) the ability to group invis.</DIV>

[Goldenblade]

Group invs is a skill that Brigands, and as far as I know, only Brigands have.  Giving group invs to all scouts or everyone that can invs, would be pointless.  It really isnt a class defining skill, but it is nice to know we have an ability that nobody else has.

[Kedri]

<DIV> Brigands are not the only class to get group invis Swashbucklers get it and Im pretty sure Rangers get it (which would imply assasassins get it too).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>                                                                                                              Kedrith</DIV>

[Trei]

["... <i>m pretty sure Rangers get it (which would imply assasassins get it too)</i>. ..."] No, we don't. Only rogues. <div></div>

[dparker7]

<DIV>Rogues, wardens FP counterparts, and coercers.</DIV>

[Wolfvi]

<DIV>Brigand</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Swashbuckler</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fury</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercer</DIV><p>Message Edited by Wolfvine on <span class=date_text>04-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 PM</span>

[Ute]

Let me preface this by saying that I understand your sentiment completely, and I can see why for bards and predators giving them group invis would be a good thing.  I also am fully aware of all the problems we scouts have from defense, to dps, to useful abilities. That said, for Rogues, the single most fundimental problem with the class is <u>redundancy</u>.  While we suffer from the overall scout issues of DPS vs defense, in relation to the other scout classes only, we are about right in terms of damage and defense.  We can tank fractionally better than the other scout classes, and while our DPS in the long term can't match a predator's, we do maintain a consistant dps throughout. So, in that respect, swashbucklers and brigands are fine.  We just, along with the other scout classes, need a boost one way or the other(defense or offense) to put us where we need to be as a class. But, our core problem as rogues is redundancy.  We have a lot of utility.  A great number of varied abilities in fact.  The problem is they are just a mish mash combination of weaker versions of other classes signature abilities.  We have been described as a Jack(or Jane in this case <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) of all trades class, and we are.  But, that causes huge problems too.  We have very little that is unique to our class, that makes you think "Rogue".  You think Ranger and you think of bows.  You think of Assassin and you think of daggers and swift powerful strikes.  You think of Bard and you think of group enhancements.  What do you think of, in terms of this game, when you think of Rogue, or swashbuckler, or brigand?  You think of picking locks, boats, and swordplay; and, only one of those is in the game <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> That is the problem with Rogues, at least one other class(often several) has one of our abilities and does it better.  Predators do better melee dps, enchanters crowd control better, multiple classes have invis of some sort, priests can debuff better, tanks can taunt better, and numerous classes have some form of hate reducer. I'm not saying having weaker versions of all these tools in one character is bad, because it isn't.  Rogues are still fun classes to play, and great for small groups.  But, that doesn't change the fact that redundancy is still a big problem for us right now the way the game works. So, yes, I can understand your arguement that giving all scouts group sneak would be beneficial to predators and bards.  But, I can also say assuredly that it would only further increase the redundancy problem rogues face right now.<div></div>

[Debillus]

<span></span>I totally agree Utess. /B <div></div>

[Bobok]

Illusionists get illusory shroud at level 36 I believe.  Group invis.  No movement penelty.  We don't get an upgrade and it stops going up at level 48 or so.

[Zork Phobos]

<DIV>This was not a thread to discuss class balancing issues. It is only about the upcoming nerf to invis and hailing NPC's. The way I see it, If i want to hail an NPC in a dangerous area as a ranger I have to find another scout class to group invis us. Rogues, also scouts, already have the ability to group invis and dont need to invite redundant classes like more scouts. Either allow the other scouts to keep the ability to hail while invis, or give us all the ability to group invis because we now will have that additional requirement to hail hard to get to npcs.</DIV>

[Dragonreal]

I thought they're making it so you can't hail an npc while invis? which would make having a grp invis kind of pointless if you need to hail an npc in a dangerous area... so how does a grp invis help your grp out anymore than it would have before?

[Sebastien]

Oi.<div></div>

[Quai Chan Ka]

hahaha look at the fools make their mistakes while trying to correct the others.....Brigands, Swashies, and Illusionists.....thats it.

[Amise]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quai Chan Kain wrote:<BR>hahaha look at the fools make their mistakes while trying to correct the others.....Brigands, Swashies, and Illusionists.....thats it. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Furies have group invis.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>04-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:11 AM</span>

[Quai Chan Ka]

<DIV>Bah Quai Chan Kain fools himself</DIV>

[Uumuuanu]

<P>Although I can see the point of not giving EVERY class this ability,  there is some heritage that was involved in group invis ablities that might be taken into account.  When I say heritage, I speak as a player of several MMORPG games, D&D and EQ1.  Taking into account that certain classes have always been able to invis themselves (most casters etc) and several have been able to invis their entire groups.  I honestly think that only one is missing right now amongst the subclasses (yes, fury get wardens dont, but each subclass that has a history of it seems to get the ability in one class or the other)- --</P> <P>It was a higher level invis (level 51 to be precise) from the bards of EQ1 (I think it was Selos Song of Travel that gave you speed, levitation and invis).  Thus Dirge and Troubador would in theory be entitled to get a group invis, although it was not included in this latest expansion as a level 51 song it could be included at a later date.  </P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>Also for those that are not aware,  it would seem that since the change in the invis-speed nerf,  nearly ever race has a limited invis ablilty (example gnomes get Hide in the Crowd which gives them 3 minutes of invis ability once an hour).   3 Minutes when used properly is enough to get to ALOT of the places you need to get to for NPC updates, zoning etc.</STRONG></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Anjuu]

<DIV>Why bump a 7 month old thread?</DIV>

[SpritRaja]

<P>Haha this post is really funny thanks for bringing it to the top I laughed my head off at the ridiculous posts stating who did and didn't get group invis.</P> <P>I hope you all do know who gets group invis even though it is less useful now as people can easily use invis totems with no worries of beeing out of range of thier local group inviser.</P> <DIV>(I skimmed the posts and nearly everyone got the classes wrong lol) Rogues got group invis(means both Swashbucklers/Brigands) Among the mage classes Illusionist got group invis. And among the priest classess Fury got group invis. </DIV> <DIV>Beeing a Fury I know that my group invis was the best before combat revamp. It had no slow on it like the scout classes. Illusionist group invis didnt have a slow on it but it broke with any damage such as falling wich made it almost useless.</DIV>