Vanguard Armor vs. Heavy Armor

[Scop]

<DIV>Why is there no distinction being made between heavy armor and vanguard armor?  If certain classes can wear vanguard over normal heavy armor, shouldnt it have a higher damage mitigation rate than just heavy armor?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kedri]

<P> I know back in development they were talking about certain classes getting vangard armor while others only got heavy. From Beta to live everyone that has heavy can wear vangard also, in effect vangard is just a descriptive name for a type of heavy armor.  Like medium could be Mail or brigadine heavy can be plate or vangard no difference.</P> <P>                                                                                                          Kedrith</P>

[Moorgard]

Vanguard is heavy armor. It's a visual difference only.

[Janl]

Originally, in beta, Vanguard armor was restricted to Berserkers and Guardians only.  Think of it as Very Heavy Armor.  Later on it was changed so that all classes which could wear Heavy Armor (Clerics, Crusaders) could also wear Vanguard. <div></div>

[Lexorin]

I really hate the look of vanguard, Unfortunatly there isn't a whole lot of selection for platemail out there. I've been lucky to find suits of plate but it's starting to get a bit harder now that I'm near 40. It would be nice to see player crafted alternatives to the current selection of armors. Especially so I can get imbued platemail.

[Priestbane]

Even in beta Crusaders had the Vanguard armor option.  It was only priests who did not.

[Joxer]

<DIV>actually you had :</DIV> <DIV>Vanguard : Crusaders/Guardians</DIV> <DIV>Heavy plate Armour : Berserkers/Clerics</DIV>

[Mat]

<HR> <DIV>Vanguard : Crusaders/Guardians</DIV> <DIV>Heavy plate Armour : Berserkers/Clerics</DIV> <DIV> <HR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OMG I have just spent more than 10PP on my ebon vanguard gear so don't you dare to make this happen or something terrible <STRONG>WILL</STRONG> happen. :p</DIV></DIV>

[Cagefighter]

I love my ebon vanguard. It is the business - of course it looks best on Kerra, as the shape of the helm is almost winged. If I knew how to make screenshots work I'd post one, cos it does look really very tasty  :smileyhappy:

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Matek wrote:<BR> <HR> <DIV>Vanguard : Crusaders/Guardians</DIV> <DIV>Heavy plate Armour : Berserkers/Clerics</DIV> <DIV> <HR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OMG I have just spent more than 10PP on my ebon vanguard gear so don't you dare to make this happen or something terrible <STRONG>WILL</STRONG> happen. :p</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Will never happen. Too many people whined in beta that it was not fair and elitist to restrict the use of an entire line of armor to just a select class. They changed it then to allow all heavy armor users to wear vanguard and I dont see them going back. Although why a berzerker should wear plate armor is beyond me :smileytongue: <p>Message Edited by Tomanak on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:28 AM</span>

[Scop]

<P>I'm ok with that but, it takes away something special for some of the classes.  Guardians get very little unique to it except for the tower shield now.  I am not sure of the benefit of that except for the look.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Sunth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tomanak wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Matek wrote:<BR> <HR> <DIV>Vanguard : Crusaders/Guardians</DIV> <DIV>Heavy plate Armour : Berserkers/Clerics</DIV> <DIV> <HR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OMG I have just spent more than 10PP on my ebon vanguard gear so don't you dare to make this happen or something terrible <STRONG>WILL</STRONG> happen. :p</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Will never happen. Too many people whined in beta that it was not fair and elitist to restrict the use of an entire line of armor to just a select class. They changed it then to allow all heavy armor users to wear vanguard and I dont see them going back. Although why a berzerker should wear plate armor is beyond me :smileytongue: <P>Message Edited by Tomanak on <SPAN class=date_text>04-15-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:28 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Like Brawler armor?

[Knok]

<P>Berserker here.</P> <P> </P> <P>I created my character with the expectation  originally that i wouldnt be able to wear vanguard, i would only be able to wear heavy.  this was hour 1+ of the servers going live when the game was created.</P> <P> </P> <P>imagine my surprise when i find out i can wear vanguard.  woopee!  now of course, i dont mind...I love hte look of vanguard.  to me, thats the way a tank SHOULD look.</P> <P> </P> <P>However, i think that a guardian should be able to wear better armor than a zerker.  I can see that in the interest of "fairness" and soe's attitude to please everyone, they gave everyone the ability to wear plate, but wen I as a zerker am in a grroup with a same level guardian, and they want me to tank over him because my AC is better....thats just wrong.</P> <P> </P> <P>The real reason i think that the change was made to give every class that can use heavy also the ability to use vanguard was the lack of armor models in the game.  for instance, theres no splinted, banded, studded leather, light plate(which would be different from vanguard) types in the game.  Splinted and banded would be the types of armors i would see a zerker wearing, because his abilities would require more freedom of movement than plate types would allow.  Thus the developers gave all classes that could wear heavy the ability to wear vanguard to let them have a few different looks.</P> <P>Now the game is older, theres more looks, maybe its time to revisit that.  </P>

[thepriz]

I think it would have been better to do what they did in EQ Live and put class restrictions on the type of armor worn instead of classifying it all as Heavy, Medium, Light, Very Light. This way they could restrict the look of each class to be more appropriate for that class. I guess in doing this it would just limit the type of graphics for each class and make each class more unique. <div></div>

[Zerofault]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Knokya wrote:<BR> <P>Berserker here.</P> <P> </P> <P>I created my character with the expectation  originally that i wouldnt be able to wear vanguard, i would only be able to wear heavy.  this was hour 1+ of the servers going live when the game was created.</P> <P> </P> <P>imagine my surprise when i find out i can wear vanguard.  woopee!  now of course, i dont mind...I love hte look of vanguard.  to me, thats the way a tank SHOULD look.</P> <P> </P> <P>However, i think that a guardian should be able to wear better armor than a zerker.  I can see that in the interest of "fairness" and soe's attitude to please everyone, they gave everyone the ability to wear plate, but wen I as a zerker am in a grroup with a same level guardian, and they want me to tank over him because my AC is better....thats just wrong.</P> <P> </P> <P>The real reason i think that the change was made to give every class that can use heavy also the ability to use vanguard was the lack of armor models in the game.  for instance, theres no splinted, banded, studded leather, light plate(which would be different from vanguard) types in the game.  Splinted and banded would be the types of armors i would see a zerker wearing, because his abilities would require more freedom of movement than plate types would allow.  Thus the developers gave all classes that could wear heavy the ability to wear vanguard to let them have a few different looks.</P> <P>Now the game is older, theres more looks, maybe its time to revisit that.  </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The most ignorant post i have ever read.... ever</P> <P> </P> <P>Lodoz - Semi-retired Archons - nektulos</P>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>The most ignorant post i have ever read.... ever</BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Lodoz - Semi-retired Archons - nektulos</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Dont you mean the most ignorant post I have ever <STRONG>written</STRONG>...ever?</P> <P><FONT size=3>To critize someone elses opinions without at least giving some reasons for that <SPAN><FONT face=Arial>Criticism is just as ignorant...</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>

[LiquidSky]

Why would you say that?

[Proudfoot]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Knokya wrote:<BR> <P>Berserker here.</P> <P> </P> <P>I created my character with the expectation  originally that i wouldnt be able to wear vanguard, i would only be able to wear heavy.  this was hour 1+ of the servers going live when the game was created.</P> <P> </P> <P>imagine my surprise when i find out i can wear vanguard.  woopee!  now of course, i dont mind...I love hte look of vanguard.  to me, thats the way a tank SHOULD look.</P> <P> </P> <P>However, i think that a guardian should be able to wear better armor than a zerker.  I can see that in the interest of "fairness" and soe's attitude to please everyone, they gave everyone the ability to wear plate, but wen I as a zerker am in a grroup with a same level guardian, and they want me to tank over him because my AC is better....thats just wrong.</P> <P> </P> <P>The real reason i think that the change was made to give every class that can use heavy also the ability to use vanguard was the lack of armor models in the game.  for instance, theres no splinted, banded, studded leather, light plate(which would be different from vanguard) types in the game.  Splinted and banded would be the types of armors i would see a zerker wearing, because his abilities would require more freedom of movement than plate types would allow.  Thus the developers gave all classes that could wear heavy the ability to wear vanguard to let them have a few different looks.</P> <P>Now the game is older, theres more looks, maybe its time to revisit that.  </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The most ignorant post i have ever read.... ever</P> <P> </P> <P>Lodoz - Semi-retired Archons - nektulos</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Hmm. That is a strange reply. I'd have to assume that Zerofault is feeding his little ego with that post... why?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Knokya was ignorant for... what exactly? Going into the game at launch assuming, as a lot did, that Vanguard was not allowed for Zerkers (hark, its in the manual!). So he/she was surprised and pleased that the zerker can in fact wear the Vanguard armor. But is wondering what advantage Guardians have over the zerker?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerofault, catchy name for someone who thinks they're perfect.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Proudfoot on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:29 PM</span>

[Raman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Knokya wrote:<BR> <P>The real reason i think that the change was made to give every class that can use heavy also the ability to use vanguard was the lack of armor models in the game.  for instance, theres no splinted, banded, studded leather, light plate(which would be different from vanguard) types in the game.  Splinted and banded would be the types of armors i would see a zerker wearing, because his abilities would require more freedom of movement than plate types would allow.  Thus the developers gave all classes that could wear heavy the ability to wear vanguard to let them have a few different looks.</P> <P>Now the game is older, theres more looks, maybe its time to revisit that.  </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think you've hit the nail on the head.  I believe the reason they didn't separate them out into two types of armor was that it was just easier to group them all together.  But I do think this difference should be reintroduced.  I also think there should be way more craftable armor types for each tier, too.  But then, these are just pipe dreams atm.<BR>

[Uki]

<DIV>I don't know if its me or does the vanguard only look good on barbs i,am a Human Paili and it whant other armouer other than vanguard ... Vanguard is big and bold i whant more versions of the NORMAL heavy armour like the AQ Armour. Te normal plate looks more agiale and more like armour a hero would ware.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> PLEASE MAKE ARMOUR DYE AS WELL !!!!!!!!!!</DIV>

[Valta]

<DIV>actualy vanguard armor should have more AC then regular heavy plate, but since beta it was not the case, there was no reason to have vanguard restricted, as the only differnce were the look</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the plan was guardian/paladin with vanguard armor, as they were intended to be the defensive tanks. heavy plate for shadowknight/berserker as they are more of an offensive tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>why should it be beyond you, that berserkers wear heavy plate?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in reality there is no berserker-class if you want to look at it this way. its just the description of personal condition.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>everyone is a simple fighter, but some fighters can come into "berserker rage", thus forgeting about their defence and going only for attack/offense. they also lose all form of fear of death, they become quite blind to this and are very very agressive. the most fighters split their skils equaly for defense and offense, always being only average fighters, some are better and some worser, but the berserker goes only for offense and this way he is the most deadly fighter. its quite sure, that when a berserker is hit deadly, he will most likely take his "killer" with him. Such persons are called berserkers. It actualy does not matter what a person this berserker is. It can be a holy knight, it can be a regular scout, thief, ANYONE can get into berserker rage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its actualy total beyond me, why we have a berserker rage. I would like it more to see berserker age being a character trait for the tanks. whatever.</DIV>

[Anlari]

<P>The berserker class is more based on the old Norse Berserkers which were an entirely different caste then their warriors.  Berserkers were believed to be touched by the gods, or insane to most of us now a days,  and flew into fits of rage.  The Celts also had their berserkers and most of the historic berserkers did not wear any armor at all. </P> <P>I wish the berserker had been more like an armed monk class then a heavy tanking class.  The idea of a zerker in heavy armor is a little silly, but such is the EQ lore I suppose that they berserkers are sane sometimes and think of things like defense.</P>

[Xlap]

<DIV>i dont think that it was that they were insane, im pretty sure they took a plant that had a poison in it that gave them massive strength and inhuman pain tolerance, but once they got done they HAD to rest, as it was really draining. (and yes, i always thought of zerkers as near-naked too lol)</DIV>

[Kwoung]

Yes, historically berserkers wore very little armour at all. They needed to move quickly and tear stuff up, that was their job... they were definately not "tanks" persay... more like heavilly armed, lightly armoured warriors on PCP. <p>Message Edited by Kwoung on <span class=date_text>05-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:15 AM</span>

[Birdrunn]

<FONT color=#ff0000>I love the look of Vanguard Armor, especially Ebon. I purposely re-rolled a Male, Kerra, Berserker, on the Lucan server so I could be a kick [Removed for Content] Kerra running around in shiny bulk armor.</FONT>

[Uumuuanu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexorin wrote:<BR>I really hate the look of vanguard, Unfortunatly there isn't a whole lot of selection for platemail out there. I've been lucky to find suits of plate but it's starting to get a bit harder now that I'm near 40. It would be nice to see player crafted alternatives to the current selection of armors. Especially so I can get imbued platemail. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Haha, oh come on,  dont you like have a butt/crotch flap?   It makes you look so tribal or something like that.

[Katzentat]

<P>Vanguard looks better!</P> <P>Compare the Fighter AQ-Armour Vs Carbonite Vanguard, and you see what i mean...</P> <P>My Berserker Girl wont bother with AQ.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Styk]

ok first off to change what tanks wear what type of  armor at this point of the game is detrimental to the whole Figther Archtype since you will create another huge imbalance there ( saying that only one of the two warrior archtypes should wear Vanguard is petty since for one, Berserkers in eq2 are the offense version of warriors and two, esp with the incomming combat system revamp, if you removed Berserkers ability to wear vangaurd type armor they will be  heavily gimped versus other plate tanks.... ) Now the idea of the quality of armor vis a vie crafted vs treasured vs fable etc should have been implemented long ago.... Since Fabled etc is epic mob drops and Player made can still be legendary if a rare is used in the armor the quality shouldnt be a huge drop ( also gives the risk vs reward factor for raiders vs casual players etc ) Hopefully shields will be moved to mitigation as well since brawlers cant use them and Plate tanks shouldnt be avoiding nearly as well as brawler types ( atm shields count for a large portion of our avoidance ) Thats just my take on it ... have a good day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>