Anybody here who has actual observations on combat changes?

[Sebastien]

If so, this is a thread for you. =) I will have some feedback in about six or eight hours. <div></div>

[Tami]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=1030" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=1030</A> read one of thelater posts .. you will get what everyone is upset at now.</DIV>

[Sebastien]

Thank you for providing that link.  Those numbers seem quite screwy.  Without parse logs, though, we don't know if it's just the number, or the actual mechanics, that are bugged.  It could be a simple display/calculation error, or it could be an error with the way the caps are being implemented. Obviously you know that SOE does not intend for a priest who is 5 levels lower than a scout, and wearing worse armor, to have better avoidance and mitigation.  So realize that those numbers represent bugs, and that is why these changes are on test. I hope to provide more numbers, myself, later on tonight. <div></div>

[Tami]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sebastien wrote:<BR>Thank you for providing that link.  Those numbers seem quite screwy.  Without parse logs, though, we don't know if it's just the number, or the actual mechanics, that are bugged.  It could be a simple display/calculation error, or it could be an error with the way the caps are being implemented.<BR><BR>Obviously you know that SOE does not intend for a priest who is 5 levels lower than a scout, and wearing worse armor, to have better avoidance and mitigation.  So realize that those numbers represent bugs, and that is why these changes are on test.<BR><BR>I hope to provide more numbers, myself, later on tonight.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>While I agree with one part of your response, it does show the fundamental issues with the system in place, especially a 'cap' driven system.  I will reitterate that the hign end game is about continous progression of your character, and with caps there is no reason to continue to strive once reach that.  While there has always been a set of dimimishing returns, every oportunity to eeek that extra power or avoidance or whatever is what keeps people playing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The system needs to remove caps and go to a table driven arch/level/skill based system with innate avoidance/mitigation.  This is 'per arch type' system so factors such as a scout wearing medium vs a priest wearing medium can be factored approrpiately (i.e. Armor reduces avoidance versus increasing it).  That way each arch will be properly balanced.  A good demonstration is Monk vs Guard .. both wearing Light Armor .. a monk should have a higher rate of dodge regardless of this situation ... based both on the fact of a less 'penality' of the armor -AND- innate dodge -AND- a a per point of AGI table in favor of the monk (meaning a 150 agi guard will receive less dodge in compairson to a 150 agi monk).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This system continues appropriatly as bentifits priests and mages as well.  Add in the ability for clerics to use kites, Shammy to use round shields, an tier thier mitigation/avoidance in same logic (not same exact ranking) as guards vs crusaders vs monks (where druids would have a larger dodge factor then a cleric).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is my take and opinion only .. but looking at the long run, the choices they are making in this update will limit the longevity that comes with the end game (as there wont be one).</DIV>

[Sebastien]

OK.. time for real feedback. Well my guildies and I wound up having so much fun on Newbie Island that we didn't really power-level up at all, so my data is just based on a level 8 character.  But at least I can give you feedback on that, so far.  /shrug First of all, the Refuge Isle experience was identical to how I remembered it.  These changes do not show up when stats are low and buffs are not involved.  In fact, the experience was easier because the skellies were downtiered to solo mobs.  BTW SOE I do not really care for that change.  The skellies used to be scary.. now they are kind of lame.  Can you leave them somewhere inbetween the two settings? OK then we got to Qeynos and did our citizenship.  I decided to try soloing a blue double-up in Oakmyst just to see how much things had changed, and honestly there was no change.  I solo'd him on my little dwarven priest without any trouble. We went outside as a trio (fighter/priest/scout) and decided to fight some orange/red solo encounters.  So we were testing the level 10 gap that the patch notes talk about.  We found that the difference between a level 9 encounter and a level 10 encounter was smoothly scaled; there was no significant leap in mob abilities, just as the patch notes promise. None of us could solo a red or orange solo encounter.  Yellow solo encounters were ok.  Keep in mind we were still half-nekkid newbs, so this didn't really surprise me. The difficulty/reward tradeoff on everything we fought seemed fine. My ending stats, just as a frame of reference for other posters, were: Mitigation = 10.5% Avoidance = 22.5% I would like to stress something here.  People were panicing over Moorgard's listing of base mitigation values for armor types.  If you recall, the base mitigation for very light armor was 10%, and people perceived this as a nerf.  Well, my level 8 priest, who was still HALF nekkid, wearing very light armor, had a mitigation of 10.5%.  This was the point I was trying to make to you all earlier.  Base mitigation values mean exactly that: they are just the BASE.  Don't assume that if your armor type's base mitigation is 10%, that this is what your character's actual mitigation will be. Anyway, the basic report is that, from the perspective of the first 10 levels, everything feels fine.  No noticable impact from the new mechanics yet. <div></div>

[Sebastien]

I also want to say that while I was logged in, only 75 players TOTAL were on Test. I can see, now, why there is not much Tester feedback being posted. =/ (SOE you should allow a selective character copy.. really) I did send tells to a few people on Test, in their 20's, and asked if they had noticed much change from the combat changes being tested.  Responses ranged from "They changed combat?" to "Not really, not much change." <div></div>

[Rg]

<DIV>Seb and the rest of the south of heaven team, thank you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Jojo-the-Yumcov]

<P>ok,now i really have no idea how it effects the 10 to 20 range.i do know heavy armor tanks are dropping like flies.getting by grey mobs wouldn't be that bad but a dev has to realize if you want monk to be able to dodge and for heavy tanks to balance with mitation your going to have to put a decent sized increase in mitation because not getting hit is going be way more powerful than only getting hit for a %.it's pretty rediculious.</P> <P>  btw,i am a 38 paladin on the test server and from a heavy tanks point of view this patch needs major tweaking.</P><p>Message Edited by Aenal-the-Bumcover on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:41 AM</span>

[Sebastien]

<div></div>Bumcover what are your avoidance and mitigation numbers like?  (and with what kind of gear?) What is your AGI? Are you saying you are now being hit a lot harder, or just more often?  Or does it seem like both? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sebastien on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:10 AM</span>

[Daffid011]

<span><blockquote><hr>Sebastien wrote:I also want to say that while I was logged in, only 75 players TOTAL were on Test. I can see, now, why there is not much Tester feedback being posted. =/ (SOE you should allow a selective character copy.. really) <div></div><hr></blockquote>Most testers don't even bother to come here anymore because the signal to noise ratio is so out of hand.  We have other forums and avenues that we use to communicate with the devs. I will say the changes are not very favorable to anyone right now in my opinion, but that is part of the testing process.  They make changes and we give feedback and bug reports.  They make adjustments as they see fit.  Rinse repeat. This isn't the first time we have gotten a big change that mosts everyone felt was harsh in its first version.  It is a process to get things right.  Also, welcome to test sebastien!  Look me up and maybe I can make you some T2 armor or something. Psst.... SOE already does selective copies of people they have worked with for some time now.  It just isn't an open invitation or fill out an application kind of thing I guess.</span><div></div>

[Sebastien]

Thanks!  Perhaps you could PM me some suggested avenues of communication, as I agree totally with your signal-to-noise comment, and this particular forum. <div></div>

[HanktheDwarf]

Other avenues?  /bug and /feedback in game are the easiest to tell the bosses what you think.  There is a testers forum.  A few dev type people frequent the test server. And as the others have said, the changes are so fekkin'd up that it's not even worth mentioning right now. <div></div>

[Sebastien]

Really?  I have heard from only four or five people, and so far almost all reported that their solo experience hadn't changed much. Where is this hidden Tester's forum?  Discussing changes here is too hard. =/ <div></div>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sebastien wrote:<BR>Really?  I have heard from only four or five people, and so far almost all reported that their solo experience hadn't changed much.<BR><BR>Where is this hidden Tester's forum?  Discussing changes here is too hard. =/<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>its hidden, of course. <DIV>I'll see if I can get you in I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>btw from my testing, it seems the base mitigation values on armor have to do with how many mitigation points are required to get 1% mitigation. (you can find your total mitigation points by inspecting yourself)</DIV><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>04-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:48 AM</span>

[Sebastien]

That's an interesting theory.  But then, it wouldn't seem to make sense that a piece of medium armor should have less mitigation points than a same level/rarity piece of heavy armor, since the differential should come from that base %, and not differing mitigation points, no? To be honest I think the combat mechanics have gotten so muddy with all these changes that only a handful of people at SOE know precisely how certain things work.  I have heard some very confusing statements on mitigation from Moorgard and I am not quite sure what to make of all of it. <div></div>

[Miral]

<P>well it seems to come from both. Me and a few other testers were running our mitigation numbers and found that the number / % usually came out to about what the base % of the armortype was supposed to be...</P> <P>Another thing to note is that agility doesnt seem to have much effect on avoidance if at all, yet shields raise avoidance by huge amounts (like 20% I think it was that I lost when i switched from mariner's defence and plain sword to Delacar's Sword of Honor), and shields give no mitigation. seems it should be the other way around... or maybe give a little of both, or neither...</P>

[Tami]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miral wrote:<BR> <P>well it seems to come from both. Me and a few other testers were running our mitigation numbers and found that the number / % usually came out to about what the base % of the armortype was supposed to be...</P> <P>Another thing to note is that agility doesnt seem to have much effect on avoidance if at all, yet shields raise avoidance by huge amounts (like 20% I think it was that I lost when i switched from mariner's defence and plain sword to Delacar's Sword of Honor), and shields give no mitigation. seems it should be the other way around... or maybe give a little of both, or neither...</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>EQ2 Avoidance unfortutuatly is not just the concept of 'avoid' but incorporates Dodge (aka Base), Block (your shield), and Deflection.</P> <P>Personally I agree, shields should be AC (mitigation) with a +BLOCK, where blockis a table done by arch type by level.  Dodge should also be per arch per level (this goes for AGI as well, as a scout/monk/etc should gain more dodge per point of agi then say a guardian).  This would allow both SOE to balance things more appropately and permit players to better fine tune their characters to their playstyle.</P> <P>ADDED: This 'Table per Arch type' theroy is common for games and I just dont understand why we are not seeing it here for more of the core stats (you see it in HP, but does not seem to be used for other factors).  Continuing on this logic, the damage bonus should be done as a factor of STR that is also table driven -BY WEAPON TYPE- to ensure weapons such as dw piercers, bows, etc are at least equal or better in the hands of classes that are logically better with them (ASN, RNG, etc ...).</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Tamian on <span class=date_text>04-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:07 AM</span>

[Sebastien]

Mitigation % = Mitigation points of armor piece / Your level. Check this out; it works every time on Live. On test, however, I noticed that the formula did not work with some of the things from newbie Island.  I had 4 mitigation pieces at level 8 that gave me 0.7% mitigation.  But if you try this formula on Live, you will see that it holds. I am going to try to figure out if something was changed, or if perhaps newbie items are just a fluke. <div></div>

[Sebastien]

Tonight we worked on hitting level 10.  Most solo encounters all appeared normal still. We fought some heroic level 10 mobs in a trio of fighter, priest, mage. While we were able to defeat them, they were quite hard, and could only be beaten by using a lot of HO strategy.  I am not sure if this is the intention, or if the jump from level 9 to level 10 mobs needs to be worked on further.  Then again, we were technically 9 while fighting the level 10's, since we had not yet done our job change quests, and we were still half naked. Had we been fully equipped at level 9, they may have seemed like a more fair fight. After hitting 11 I traveled back out to Antonica, and found my solo ability was still fine against whites and yellows.  I also solo'd a group of yellow mobs that were rated as a solo encounter, and, while it was an exciting fight, it was not overly difficult. I heard several people complaining in test chat that their solo ability was much worse, but almost all of them were scouts.  In particular, it seems scouts are experiencing significantly lower mitigation now than they did pre-patch. <div></div>

[LadyEternity]

<P>Things atm are a bit out-of-wack. But I am sure it will settle. I've posted my findings during play for the Devs to read, as have other testers.</P> <P>As I understood it, these combat changes were only to effect group content and raid content. Unfortunately it has also effected solo content. While it might not be very apparent at low level, at level 30 my Necromancer is feeling the pain <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The biggest change I have seen is this:</P> <P>Greys can now kill you</P> <P>Greens no longer 'miss' constantly</P> <P>Blue and higher require some thought now before initiating, especially if there are more then one, and you are a caster <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Heh</P> <P>Now, my own conclusions is: They are trying to make group content for groups, and trying to stifle the 'soloing green heroics' that so many people do. Basically...trying to bring the balance into focus across the board.</P> <P>If it does stay like this, I hope there is an exp raise placed in. As many people will have to kill lower conning creatures, this is especially true for solo mobs. And I feel the exp penalty on Duo's killing solo mobs needs to be removed. Infact I'd love to see an exp system revamp, giving experience bonus according to party make-up instead of just by "mob" killed.</P> <P>But anyhow, enough rumbling. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I hope you enjoy your time on Test.</P> <P>Lady Eterntiy</P><p>Message Edited by LadyEternity on <span class=date_text>04-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:40 PM</span>

[Miral]

It seems Immune mobs have become even more popular with this update. this flat named derv was completely immune to an entire 4 person group (two crusaders, warrior, and brawler) I think some of the other players had magical weps, while I (the brawler) was using my bare hands. bare handed damage seems to have gone up, but that means nothing when the mob is completely immune. Theres no excuse for this and its just plain stupid.

[Sebastien]

<span><blockquote><hr>LadyEternity wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Things atm are a bit out-of-wack. But I am sure it will settle. I've posted my findings during play for the Devs to read, as have other testers. </p> <p><font color="#ffff66">I don't have access yet.  Maybe Monday. =)</font> </p> <p>As I understood it, these combat changes were only to effect group content and raid content. Unfortunately it has also effected solo content. While it might not be very apparent at low level, at level 30 my Necromancer is feeling the pain <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The biggest change I have seen is this:</p> <p>Greys can now kill you</p> <p>Greens no longer 'miss' constantly</p> <p>Blue and higher require some thought now before initiating, especially if there are more then one, and you are a caster <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Heh </p> <p><font color="#ffff66">I think this is exactly SOE's intention here.. they don't want greens to miss every time, and blues should present a little fun instead of being monotonous.  From what I heard in Test chat, scouts seem to have gotten their soloing ability nerf'd too hard tho.</font> </p> <p>Now, my own conclusions is: They are trying to make group content for groups, and trying to stifle the 'soloing green heroics' that so many people do. Basically...trying to bring the balance into focus across the board. </p> <p><font color="#ffff66">I agree.</font> </p> <p>If it does stay like this, I hope there is an exp raise placed in. As many people will have to kill lower conning creatures, this is especially true for solo mobs. And I feel the exp penalty on Duo's killing solo mobs needs to be removed. Infact I'd love to see an exp system revamp, giving experience bonus according to party make-up instead of just by "mob" killed. </p> <p><font color="#ffff66">Interesting ideas here. =) </font><font color="#ffff66"> </font></p> <p><font color="#ffff66">I think you are right that the overall exp pace will slow, but I think that may be part of the intent (I hope the paranoid crowd is not reading this!).  In a way, there is an experience bonus according to party make-up, since there is some sort of exp bonus in place for small groups (trio/duo) and soloing... however I don't think anybody has ever really studied exp close enough to know what it is.</font> </p> <p> </p> <p>But anyhow, enough rumbling. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I hope you enjoy your time on Test. </p> <p><font color="#ffff66">Thank you.  The crowd in channel seems quite nice. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font><font color="#ffff66"> </font><font color="#ffff66">I am looking forward to being able to participate more directly in the dialogue once I can get my forum access.  I have dragged a few SoH guildmates over also.. we were itching to make qeynie alts anyway (we are a freeport guild), so this seemed like a nice idea for keeping ourselves busy and also helping out the EQ2 community (hopefully).</font> </p> <p>Lady Eterntiy</p><p>Message Edited by LadyEternity on <span class="date_text">04-16-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:40 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sebastien wrote:<SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff66> since there is some sort of exp bonus in place for small groups (trio/duo) and soloing... however I don't think anybody has ever really studied exp close enough to know what it is.</FONT><BR></P></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Simple, if SOE does things the "normal" way. Mobs have a base xp value. That value goes through a multiplier depending on various factors such as strength of mob, location, possibly even length of battle, etc... Then its devided by the number of people in the group either equally, or depending on who did the most damage to the mob. Each person gets that xp, plus any bonuses due to vitality, encounter bonus, etc. So the smaller the group fighting the same mob, the more xp each person gets for it.</DIV>

[Sebastien]

Honestly I have no idea how this game treats exp sharing. In most games, we can see the actual exp points, so you can figure out the formula.  In this game you just have an abstract % bar.  I have no idea if it takes the total exp of the mob and splits it evenly, or does so after applying some bonus based on number of players in the group (most likely), or even just gives everyone a share very close to what they would have gotten solo (if it is a heroic mob.. and yes I have seen mmo's that work that way too). My sense is that you don't lose much exp taking on additional party members, but I really have no clue what the specifics are.  I don't believe SOE has ever told us either. <div></div>

[Imri]

I am for one thing. All classes can solo the same mobs with the same efficiency and risk. Currently on the reg servers that is not the case. I play a templar at level 37 so far, and I can solo some mobs that are yellow effortlessly, and some blue give me a good fight. My wife plays a 34 ranger. She can solo some whites with extreme high risk, and most blue fights for her are what fights with yellow mobs are for me. We both can solo -5 level ^^ green about the same. I personally think I am at about where soloing ability should be as I can have a lot of fun. My wife obviously does not feel that, and while it frustrates the hell out of her, she endures and plays on. If these changes do nothing but bring my abilities down to what hers are, then I think it's a nerf, where as if they meet half way or bring her up, then I see it as balance.

[Sebastien]

Scout soloing, particularly predators, needs to be improved, absolutely agree. However that probably will not come for a few more patches, to be honest. In the meantime, scout soloing seems to actually have gotten worse with the current changes to combat mechanics that are being tested.  But these mechanics are going to be tinkered with a lot, as will mob damage, before SOE is done.. so I wouldn't get too alarmed or anything. <div></div>

[Miral]

<P>same with druids (with combat changes in), and necromancers (without combat changes in, even more so with them)</P> <P>hopefully this will be corrected with the priest and summoner balancing...</P>

[Sebastien]

Currently (on Live not on Test) I consider druids and necros to be among he best soloists in the game, after warriors. That is just my take but I do have a level 25 warden in addition to my main, and I see how the Fury and Necro in our guild solo. <div></div>

[Miral]

well at some levels necros can solo, but between 20ish and 30 its hell for sure, makes GETTING to 30 way harder than it should be <DIV>can't even play mine anymore cus groups see how little dmg he does and grab a warlock instead.... and thats before the combat changes. I can only imagine how its gunna be on the necro if this goes in how it is, based on what ive experienced on my warlock on test... pretty soon groups will just start taking extra tanks for dps since they can actually live if they get aggro for 2 seconds</DIV><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:44 AM</span>

[Sebastien]

Don't forget that the main thing being studied with this part of the change is the way that various classes avoid. Mob DPS will be reduced after that.. so it is hard for any of on Test to accurately judge some of these things. This is my newest theory-  Up until this change, we have had a lot of what I call "bandaid" fixes to combat.  The original combat mechanics of EQ2 at release actually worked well, IMO, other than the fact that they were much too easy, and everyone thought of a heroic mob as a standard mob because we could all solo them.  SOE dramatically beefed up heroic mob HP, which makes sense, since you want them to survive a full group's DPS.  But then they spiked mob DPS, not once, but twice.  This seemed to work well for the game up to around level 30, but then SOE saw the same problems.  Content was too easy.  So then they put through a stat boost to mobs, and in particular they said mobs over level 30 would have a significant stat boost. So now we have the present mobs.. they hit insanely hard, but due to the flawed combat mechanics, it is always possible to create a situation where they can't hit you.  So now all strategy revolves around that.  People farm mobs when they are green so they cannot be hit.  And they find ways to stack buffs and build avoidance so they cannot be hit during raids, because it is the only way they see to deal with the excessive DPS mobs do. It also created a problem for avoidance tanking.. how can a class like brawler function correctly where avoidance and damage are all-or-nothing?  Either the brawler fights something that can hardly ever hit him, or he gets hit by one of these mobs once and is down to 1/2 health.  To try to throw another bandaid on that, SOE gave brawlers built in deflection (which made the avoidance issue even worse actually), and when that didn't help, they messed up the balance between light and medium armors to try to favor brawlers.  Still didn't work. What I think we are seeing here is that SOE is realizing that these bandaid fixes are not helping.. so they are going back to the drawing board.  After they fix the avoidance mechanics, which was really the whole problem to begin with, I think you will see them scale back the 30+ mob stats, as well as tone down mob DPS.  Then they will be back on track, and can look into priest issues and mage dps, and then finally scouts. =P <div></div>

[WolfSha]

<DIV>Thank you Sebastien, that's the first post on this new combat system that hasn't made me want to kill myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope your right, all sounds a lot more reasonable when you put it like that.... :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sebastien]

Hurray! <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> The reason I have been spamming this board so much is I just felt there was so much paranoia and confusion/misunderstanding going on, so I have been trying to keep my board warrior personality toned down and just be patient (when possible) to help clear up some of these confusions. Actually if you are on test and chatting in channel, at least half the people in there will tell you they have experienced very little impact from these changes.  But those that are upset are very upset (they should just be testing imo and not getting so attached) and so they make more noise overall.<span></span> <div></div>

[Miral]

<P>except the half that dont notice much are of specific classes, and the half that does notice change is of different classes...</P> <P>don't notice: cleric, shaman, crusader, warrior, brawler(some, depends on level, wep of choice, etc), artisans(duh)</P> <P>notice: scouts, mages, druids, the rest of the brawlers.</P>

[Sebastien]

<div></div><div></div>My honest take on that?  Druids have been by far the best soloists in the game, since release.  The ones I have heard complain, so far, say things like "blue heroic mobs are actually hard now."  That doesn't exactly strike me as something being broken.  Blue heroic mobs are simply out of the question for many subclasses, Scouts in particular. Mages?  Well Mob DPS was overtuned, as were stats, over the past few patches.  So SOE says after (finally) fixing avoidance mechanics, they will go back and review Mob damage.  I think mages are complaining now because, unfortunately, they are the ones that see how overtuned Mobs really are.  But once the Mob retuning is done?  Well we have to see. Remember, the thing they are testing right now is avoidance mechanics.. not overall combat balance (yet).  What I imagine SOE is doing is looking through their database and seeing what actual avoidance and mitigation %'s are showing up on the Test players, at various classes and levels.  They are not concerned yet, how hard or easy mobs are, they are looking at more basic things for now.  Then, as they said, they will retune mobs so that the challenge level is appropriate and fair. So thinking only about avoidance and mitigation numbers, and how they balance with other classes.. The numbers that scouts from Test have posted don't make sense to me.. something about the new caps is messing up their avoid/mitigation numbers, or else its something about medium armor.  But whatever it is, the mechanics don't seem to be working well for them. <p>Message Edited by Sebastien on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:17 PM</span>

[Shantee]

Believe me when I say Defilers and Inquistors have noticed this change very much.  Last night I thought I would fight a few greys for some Quests.  I'm a lvl 45 Defiler, I was fighting 4 lvl 32 mobs.  13 lvl's different.  I had to run away from the fight.  I could not keep myself warded and healed long enough to cast my dot and dd spells.   Same thing happened when I was fighting 2 lvl 31^ mobs.  I was not able to kill them. If you take that and turn it around.. say take 4 players attempting to fight a lvl 45 mob, we would have to pick ourselves up off the ground and run with our tails between our legs.  There is no reason greys 13 to 14 lvl's lower hit where we have to run from a fight. My wards and heals suck from a healers stand point.  My wards drop almost as fast as i cast them.  My main heal spell is now green to me and is casted once every 13 secs.   My next heal I get is at 46 I believe, and that does a heal to a ally at the cost of my own health.  It better be one darn good heal. I have posted my thoughts on the other board we have.  I know this is all testing and things will be changed.  But in the mean time it really sucks and is hard to play with confidence in areas we were just now learning. <div></div>

[ScreenMonkey]

ya know its good they want stuff to balance out and not be to easy cause of buff stacking, so why dont they just tweak a few lines and make the buffs that are doing this not stack.  All they are doing is gonna make groups non existant cause tanks are gonna get hammered and healers wont' be able to keep up. 

[Miral]

<P>hm not completely sure about defiles as I didn't hear any saying much, but 2 or 3 different inquisitors in the mid-high 30s were saying that they didnt notice much change at all, one even said its a little easier. Don't know if its a level issue, or playstyle difference or what, but that's what they said.</P> <P>Sebastian, do you have a link where a dev said they will tone mob damage down? I've been watching the dev tracker don't remember seing that...</P> <p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:34 PM</span>

[Sebastien]

<div></div>np <div><font color="#ffffcc">"As part of this, we are also looking at the damage that NPCs do. After all, if NPCs can hit more often, we need to take a close look at what they're hitting for. And if NPC damage changes, it is a natural conclusion that we need to look at the efficiency of healing. Since that may need adjusting too, it wouldn't do a lot of good to spend time introducing balance changes now only to find we should redo them in a month." </font> (<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=43305#M43305" target="_blank">source</a>) But the really revealing post, IMO, is this one: <font color="#ffffcc">"It was never our intent that avoidance is a 100% thing, but that's basically how it is currently being used. This isn't just a problem with raid mobs, one that is present at all levels of play. There is, at every level range, a spot where you can select opponents that have little to no chance to hit you. Once again, that's not our intent.</font> <p><font color="#ffffcc">A change that makes everyone not as good at avoiding damage isn't the solution in and of itself. When our mobs hit, they tend to hit for high amounts of damage, so suddenly even common fights would become a slaughter. </font><font color="#ffffcc"><b>Therefore any change to the way avoidance works will be accompanied by other changes that shift game balance such that mobs could hit more frequently but for much less damage.</b></font></p> <p><font color="#ffffcc">This is still in the discussion phase, so additional changes will probably be made as well, such as to the effects of +Defense buffs or to the buffs themselves. But like I said we're still talking about this, so I will post details once a decision has been made on how we plan to tackle this issue."</font> (<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=13301#M13301" target="_blank">source</a>) </p> <p> </p> <p> </p> </div> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sebastien on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:28 PM</span>

[Miral]

Ah thanks. But then again it is just words as of yet, and we all know how SOE is about delivering things they promise... <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>huh forums seriously buged, says you edited your post two hours before you posted it [Removed for Content]</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:37 PM</span>

[Sebastien]

Probably timezone kind of things.. like the editted line is local timezone of poster but the original timestamp on post is based on the viewer's settings? As far as those posts.. I do not view them as promises, but rather just as insight into the way they are thinking and how they intend to solve the problems. <div></div>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sebastien wrote:<BR>Probably timezone kind of things.. like the editted line is local timezone of poster but the original timestamp on post is based on the viewer's settings?<BR><BR>As far as those posts.. I do not view them as promises, but rather just as insight into the way they are thinking and how they intend to solve the problems.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ah that could be on the forum bug, since sometimes when I hit edit it actually apends the edit stamp and shows that "omg this post has bad html and stuff even tho yer usin the WYSIWYG editor, and stuff" thing and makes me hit submit again... Still strange though.</P> <P>You're probably right that these aren't really promises, but what that means concerning if and when they happen is debatable...</P>

[FaythfulAcolyte]

<DIV> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>Hello again, all !</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>Sebastien, I totally "/agree" on your observations regarding the combat changes and the fact that things are being changed and analyzed one step/time on the Test Server. Problems will result, and imbalances will be found... that's the point <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>Some people will be angry that their characters will no longer be able to solo as easily, but I think this will be something implemented across all archetypes, classes, and sub-classes, hopefully. More challenge = greater satisfaction with reward. Less massive changes in difficulty at certain levels = less frustration with certain parts of the game. Still the ability to solo, but not being able to solo ^ mobs of four that are two levels higher than yourself (as I am currently able to do with my warden <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>I am hoping for the sake of quality that these changes will undergo a LONG period of testing and be comprehensive, including avoidance, mitigation, DPS, casting, healing, archetype roles, but also proper changes in spells, fixes in abilities, etc. that have been requested for some time. Please give us a comprehensive change in the system for proper play balance. Devs, take your time with this one - Yes, I currently can solo higher mobs, but I am willing to be scaled back a bit as long as my skills, spells, mitigation, enemy DPS, and the "flow" and progression of the game is smoothed out. As a warden, I'm still miffed about the changes to parry for the sake of counterattacks and the enjoyment of hacking and slashing on the front line, but I'll live.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>A close friend of mine plays SWG, which is currently undergoing a massive combat overhaul. As disruptive as this might seem, I am pleased to see ours come sooner rather than later, and if it will improve the game overall for the long term, so be it. I am willing to give the devs the benefit of the doubt at this point. However, I am not ignorant to the many sub-class issues that currently exist, nor the displeasure of players about certain pieces of information (<cough> *Frogloks*). Having a business background, I understand SOE's reason for their announcement moves, but being a customer, that doesn't mean I always have to like it. I am, however, willing to be patient when it comes to making a better product (referring to both system mechanics and the Frogloks).  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>Many thanks to Sebastien, who has been willing to invest his time and effort into researching test server changes and even conduct his own analyses of certain issues. At the same time, he's done a great job in encouraging players to suspend their judgement on the changes, since they are incomplete, and not implemented on the live servers, and suspend his own in reporting the information to the rest of us. Class act, and good example - /cheer ! You persuade me to join the test server, and make a warden... When you're on Antonia Bayle, look me up for a drink <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>Players: /useability Stay Informed; /useability Suspend Judgement (at least for the moment); /useability Optimism. /useability Awareness (that the Devs and the company both know that these changes could help to make or break the system/game... there is money riding on these sweeping changes, so there is motivation on the business, as well as the creative, end to make a better game).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>Devs: Take your time, please. I understand that you will have deadlines, but quality will certainly beat out quantity in this case. If it is truly balanced and fair, the general populace will be pleased, and the game, company and players will benefit. Oh, by the way, thank you for your work and my current enjoyment of the game... (thought you might occasionally like to hear that... lol).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>SOE: Let the devs do what they need to to make a balanced system, even if it means more time to do it. Give the opportunity to prove the potential of this game, and of your creative teams. Remember that people will talk about this game for years to come, that this is not simply about short-term profit, but your reputation as well. "If you build it (well), they will come <to play and pay>..."</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>Arquinia Siqilisse</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>32nd Warden</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>*Fierce Dragons of Legend*</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66cc99 size=2>Antonia Bayle</FONT></P></DIV></DIV>

[Sebastien]

Thanks very much for the kind words. =) <div></div>

[WolfSha]

<P>I'll second faythfulAcolyte's /agree, sebastien you're the one of the few people talking sense on these issues.</P> <P>I do still worry that including agi on mitigation will lead to class imbalance where classes with high agi will have high avoidance AND mitigation, making gnomes, ratongas and elves better tanks than the classes who's traditional role has been to tank, ie barbs, orgres etc, seems odd to me that a gnome will take less dmg from a direct hit than an ogre, but i'll wait and see, i'm sure it'll all come out in the wash! - Maybe they'll put some mitigation increasing race traits in for the lower agi classes and allow a /respec to balance it out (fingers crossed) :smileyhappy:</P>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WolfShark wrote:<BR> <P>I'll second faythfulAcolyte's /agree, sebastien you're the one of the few people talking sense on these issues.</P> <P>I do still worry that including agi on mitigation will lead to class imbalance where classes with high agi will have high avoidance AND mitigation, making gnomes, ratongas and elves better tanks than the classes who's traditional role has been to tank, ie barbs, orgres etc, seems odd to me that a gnome will take less dmg from a direct hit than an ogre, but i'll wait and see, i'm sure it'll all come out in the wash! - Maybe they'll put some mitigation increasing race traits in for the lower agi classes and allow a /respec to balance it out (fingers crossed) :smileyhappy:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>hm must have missed where they said agil effects mitigation too... but either way not really seeing the effects of it if it was said somewhere... My 13 ogre brawler has better mitigation AND avoid than my 18 ratonga predator.

[Gertack_v2]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Sebastien wrote:Currently (on Live not on Test) I consider druids and necros to be among he best soloists in the game, after warriors.That is just my take but I do have a level 25 warden in addition to my main, and I see how the Fury and Necro in our guild solo.<div></div><hr></blockquote></span>Sigh. I wish.  As a level 47 Fury on Live, I can barely beat level 43 (green) solo Sootfoot gatherers in Lavastorm.  And those level 42++ (lowest green) molten fragments? No chance. I run out of power while it is at 50% health. (Edit note: By 'barely' I mean that my health drops to orange often in the fights before I can pull it back to yellow/green due to interrupts/damage/etc. Sometimes even need the 15-minute timer heal.)My spells are all Adept1 or better and my armor is the best regular (non-rare) I can find on the broker (some drops, some player-made). I'm not hit much by the above-mentioned mobs' melee attacks, but they're still capable.  The problem is that they use specials attacks for way too much damage way too frequently.  My mitigation is 47.1% and avoidance is about 58.8%, but when specials always hit that doesn't matter much.I haven't even dared try a level 44 solo yet, but I should go look for one just for giggles.  I'll have to try Everfrost to see if it's just a Lavastorm thing, but it makes me feel pretty weak.Gertack47 Fury, 33 JewelerBefallen<div></div><p>Message Edited by Gertack on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 PM</span>

[Sebastien]

<span><blockquote><hr>Miral wrote: <blockquote> <hr> WolfShark wrote: <p>I'll second faythfulAcolyte's /agree, sebastien you're the one of the few people talking sense on these issues.</p> <p>I do still worry that including agi on mitigation will lead to class imbalance where classes with high agi will have high avoidance AND mitigation, making gnomes, ratongas and elves better tanks than the classes who's traditional role has been to tank, ie barbs, orgres etc, seems odd to me that a gnome will take less dmg from a direct hit than an ogre, but i'll wait and see, i'm sure it'll all come out in the wash! - Maybe they'll put some mitigation increasing race traits in for the lower agi classes and allow a /respec to balance it out (fingers crossed) :smileyhappy:</p> <hr> </blockquote>hm must have missed where they said agil effects mitigation too... but either way not really seeing the effects of it if it was said somewhere... My 13 ogre brawler has better mitigation AND avoid than my 18 ratonga predator. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Wolf-  What we are seeing so far is that AGI seems to provide only a VERY tiny bit of benefit to avoidance... meaning like 0.1% increase in avoidance per 50-100 AGI, for example.  I think the general sentiment now (on Test, not Live!) is that AGI doesn't matter enough. Moreover, what *appears* to be the case (I don't know this for sure yet) is that Light and Very Light armors have no impact on avoidance, but Medium provides a -5% penalty to avoidance, and Heavy provides some additional penalty beyond that. Given that everyone's avoidance numbers are quite low right now, those penalties effectively shut down the loophole you are worried about (a plate tank with high avoidance).  Overall it is a smart system, IMO, but it does not appear to be balanced yet, to me.  SOE has given no indication that they are rushing things, though, and in fact made a very significant tweak today (lowered mob DPS since they now hit more often). Miral-  AGI doesn't provide mitigation per se.  However, it is now used to offset the melee bonus damage that the attacker gains from STR.  So for instance, if the attacker's STR previously allowed them to do 125% damage (ie, 100 STR), perhaps your AGI as the defender can now reduce it to 110%.  In an indirect manner, you could describe that effect as mitigation, but that isn't really what it's doing, and you cannot offset base damage.. only bonus damage from STR.</span><div></div>

[Miral]

Ah right, wonder if that also increased your chance of crit a la d20? (roll 20 sided die, add strength bonus, if total is within crit range [like 19-20 on longswords] then you do double damage) Of course my question right now is, how is ranged handled? is it also str vs agil? or is it maybe agil vs agil? Or maybe even fixed damage or something? got hit by an orc last night with a bow for over 300 damage... he was green heroic... I was on my warlock lv 23

[Sebastien]

I have absolutely no clue on ranged mechanics; I won't even pretend. =P Is there such a thing as a critical hit in this game? <div></div>

[Grimsore]

I typically do not post or even read the boards, there is way too much complaining and senseless anger for me. For the most part I do my feed back in game. That being said I’m going to take the time to post what I have experienced with the combat changes, not for SOE but for the people who read the boards and wonder about the changes they have yet to experience, or may never experience if they don’t play the same type of class as I.I play a Bruiser, from level 1 to level 45, on Test. I don’t think I’ve even seen a Bruiser over level 35 on test and I don’t think there is a monk over 40 but I certainly could be wrong. It is this rarity of high-level light armor tanks on test that has me posting. I’ll get specific about myself for all you people out there who like to know. I solo and group probably equally. As far as “test server standards” I am very well equipped. My main damage ability is a master One Hundred Hand Slap, 98% percent of my other abilities are adept 1 with the other 1% appr 4. I use a Hero Crook(Not going to try and spell it) and all of my armor is white to yellow. I wear a Robe of the Evoker pretty much all the time now. It is very light armor and close to 200 less ac than the Archaic BP I carry but there is no doubt that for me the power regeneration FAR outweighs the loss of ac. My agility is 130 self buffed.Pre- combat patch my avoidance was 75% and my Mitigation 33 point something % (I think). Currently my avoidance is 52 point something % and my mitigation 23%. Before you freak out remember they are only numbers. . All numbers tell us is, “higher is better, lower is worse,” as long as the base stays the same. Numbers mean nothing without a base to compare them too. The combat system has changed and with it the base.(I)= Individual encounter (according to SOE, meant for 1-2 people)(H)= Heroic encounter (According to SOE, meant for 3-6 people)(G) = Green Con Mob (B) = Blue Con Mob (W) = White Con Mob ….you get the pictureBEFORE COMBAT PATCH (Level 45) (I)(G) - Could ignore screen, use almost no arts and win vs. several easy.(I)(B) – Could ignore screen after throwing in a couple arts at the start. Easy fight.(I)(W)(Y) – Had to play the class and use arts but was pretty much a sure win.(I)(O) – Things changed when mobs became orange. They hit me a lot more and Bruisers cannot take being hit well. If I paid attention I could win but it was dangerous and if I got some bad rolls I easily could loose.(I)(R) – Very slim chance for me to beat the lowest tier red mob. Mostly they were to be left alone, orange was tough enough.(H)(G) – Lowest tier greens and often the next tier up I could solo when I paid attention. Normally the lowest tier would be a pretty sure win and next up a challenge.(H)(B) – Select few lowest tier blue I could beat very now and then when solo. Wasn’t worth the risk. I tanked well vs. a blue mob in a group with a healer.(H)(W) – No chance to solo a white con group mob. I tanked worse than the plate class I was with but could do fine when tanking white con mobs. (Note the paladin/SK I normally play with is 2 levels and 1 level over me.)(H)(Y) – Was hard for healers to keep up with the damage I’d take which caused me to have to really pay attention to when I used mend and fear. I tanked wore than the plate classes but could sure as the main tank.(H)(0) – Would need two healers if I was going to live and it just wasn’t a good idea for me to tank. (H)(R) – Bad idea, Orange and red just hit me too much. Needed mitigation to deal with the damage and I didn’t have it.AFTER COMBAT PATCH (Level 45)(I)(G) - Could ignore screen, use almost no arts and win easy.(I)(B) – Had to use combat arts but easy fight.(I)(W)(Y) – Would require me to be careful and play to my fullest. Much more dangerous than before patch but worth doing still.(I)(O)(R) – Not going to happen. I’m getting hit almost every other swing. They are hitting for less each swing but 100, 200, after 100 ads up fast when you cant heal but once.(H)(G) – Lowest tier I can still beat when I pay attention. I am hit more often than before and end up with less power and health. Can still tank in-group fine.(H)(B) – Can’t solo, Can tank in-group ok but takes a good bit more healer mana.(H)(W) – At this point the healer is having a hard time keeping up on damage. Need 2 healers.(H)(Y) – 2 healers a must and very little chance to try this out, group fighting has become much harder and a lot of folks have been taking a break it seems.(H)(R) – Haven’t even tried.Conclusion - I seem to tank the greens about he same as before but have gotten worse vs. solo and group Cons higher than green. I can still play and I think if the game started out this way I would be fine with how I tank now post combat patch. The problem is the game didn’t start this way. It feels like after growing up on fresh eggs I’m suddenly being asked to eat powdered. Yuk! If I had started out growing up on the powdered eggs Id be fine and happy but I’m not willing to change now. After thoughtsIt must be noted that my views are only for light armor tanks. I believe the Plate class tanks have dropped from what they could handle even more than the leather classes.Greys 10 levels below me can hit me every now and then post combat patch. Before 20 could swing at me forever while I was afk and I’d never die.Well equipped “for test server” – It must be kept in mind that there are no t5 rares being used at the moment. No artisans are high enough yet. I would consider my Bruiser to be upper average compared to a live server player. Maybe average? Not really sure.Fleeona 45 Brusier, TestPreviously Grimsore from EQ1 Test

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sebastien wrote:<BR>I have absolutely no clue on ranged mechanics; I won't even pretend. =P<BR><BR>Is there such a thing as a critical hit in this game?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Supposed to be anyways, theres settings in the chat options for displaying critical hits and stuff... But then again theres also a "split coin loot" option when there is no coin loot, so who knows.

[Sebastien]

I don't think I have ever seen a critical hit message... To be honest I am pleased if such things are not in the game.  They will always be abused and lead to imbalance.  The worst example of critical hits is Lineage 2.  Critical hits automatically do double damage, and, spending money, you can use a kind of ammo called soulshots to double that again. One class has a buff that doubles critical hit frequency. One class has a buff that doubles critical hit damage. One class has haste. (that was the "holy trinity" of PvP in L2) So, using all these various things, you can create a group that does about 20x the DPS of a non-spec'd group (yes, literally).  It was very dumb, creating way too much effort and stress over group building, and has me turned of to the idea of critical hits. =/ EQ2's current system seems to just vary the damage evenly, from a weak hit to an average one to a solid one. <div></div>

[Miral]

<P>of course, other than haste, eq2 doesnt have any of that stuff. Also, if there are crits, it could change the crit range or something based on attack speed like how procs have a smaller % chance per hit the faster your attack speed... But of course we are going off topic now I guess</P> <P>I would like a dev to explain how ranged combat works and if there are crits, though...</P>

[Rodney]

<P>I think we do have crits, they just dont spam it,  my biggest melee hit is 552 with a dw weapon SBD.  My log shows a lot hits much higher then the max damage on my weapons.  I am not usre what else it can be.</P> <P> </P>

[Sebastien]

<span><blockquote><hr>Miral wrote: <p>I would like a dev to explain how ranged combat works and if there are crits, though...</p> <hr></blockquote> I would like a dev to explain how combat works, period. =) This is something I have always advocated for in any MMO: documentation. When you play a game, part of your fun and success comes from understanding the rules.  How much fun can you really have, playing chess, or watching a baseball game, if you do not understand the rules of the game?</span><span></span> <span> Now, game developers seem to think of this information as a spoiler.  They worry: if players knew the rules of the game, it would be too easy, or they would all spec the same build of each class. I say: it that is true, then the game wasn't designed well. A well designed game is such that, the better you understand the rules, the more tradeoffs you become aware of, and the more you can appreciate it. I have certainly come to appreciate EQ2 more as time goes on, so I believe there are some very intelligent minds behind some of the broad rules in the game.  Therefore, I think the mechanics should be documented.  They don't need to say things like "scouts should always have STR at least half of their AGI", because that would be a spoiler, but they simply document how AGI effects avoidance, accuracy (still not convinced there is such effect), and other such things. IMO all mechanics should be documented and out in the open. In fact, the task of documenting them will probably reveal areas for improvement, much like Moorgard's attempt to explain Vitality resulted in changes to the mechanics and UI, once they realized that it was a confusing system.  (although in that case I think they made matters worse to be honest =P) </span><div></div>

[Miral]

<P>edit: oops ment to quote</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Now, game developers seem to think of this information as a spoiler.  They worry: if players knew the rules of the game, it would be too easy, or they would all spec the same build of each class.<BR></P> <HR> <P>Thats so true. brings to mind a wheel of time d20 game that my friends play, i started with em knowing nothing about that type of game... someone in the group that knows all the ins and outs somehow ended up with a low level character with like +20 to diplomacy and really good combat skills too... sucks with a bow, but bows arent that great in that game... and he got this characer like uber, we're all like lvl 5 and hes uber cus he knows the game rules heh, always makes me want to kill off my crazy mage and mirror him heh... wait that sounds familiar.... oh yea, all the fruitcakes that meet every balance issue with "sucks for you, reroll" heh</P> <P>Message Edited by Miral on <SPAN class=date_text>04-19-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>06:58 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:58 PM</span>

[Ricassari]

<div></div>I agree, hiding the facts and not documenting the functionality seems to be the new way for sloppy and lazy game designers to make their stuff "interesting" or "challenging". The obvious tradeoff, the game becomes trivial and boring after you have found out more about the rules. EQ should have hired better designers that can stand the test of experienced and well-informed players. Constant changes to renew the cloud of darkness the players are shrouded in only repeat the same mistake. Design an open and honest system that is challenging even if the players know how it works. As for the current changes in detail, what seems to have happend is that pure casters have no chance to solo mobs any more because spell interruptions are too frequent now. Many nerfs are not met by needed fixes for broken spells and abilities. There are imbalances in soloing power and group desirably on live currently, but this change only creates new, and even more grave, imbalances. Instead of kneejerk reactions to some "exploits" of the currenty system, instead of fundamentally changing the rules, SOE should apply careful changes to fix what needs to be fixed. A compelete overhaul, without any new design ideas behind, just to make new mistakes instead of old mistakes, it is a waste of effort. <div></div>

[SageMarrow]

<P>post balancing i think what they are trying to achieve is a system that creates sort of a circular change.</P> <P>mobs do more damage, players and casters have to effectively *pay attention*.</P> <P>Players will do more dps, so dps classes have to effectively *pay attention* to keep the damage taken by the MT to a minimum by keeping a consistent  speed to mob kills.</P> <P>At the end of all the balancing - i see them taking this approach to all of this and scaling the game down as such and making the functionality player dependant...</P>

[Sebastien]

What they have done is to lower mob DPS, actually. <div></div>

[Nibbl]

<P> </P><p>Message Edited by Nibblar on <span class=date_text>04-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:11 PM</span>

[Graton]

one example i can think of is assassin's mark. we assassin's have the ability to mark the mob. there is a random chance that anyone meleeing the mob will trigger this and get a large melee hit that at least used to look just like all the others. <div></div>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sebastien wrote:<BR>What they have done is to lower mob DPS, actually.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Now I haven't played it on live cus this whole "Exchange" thing hasn't exactly put me in a playing mood, but when the patch that says it lowers the dps hit Test, I actually noticed HIGHER dps from mobs, not lower.

[Sebastien]

Miral, to be honest, many of us are not especially motivated to play right now. <div></div>

[Miral]

I noticed that hehe, people popping out of the woodwork that have never posted on these forums before, posting about the exchange instead of playing