LU7 nerfs

[Damonious Ba]

-) difference between kite and tower shields is 1% ... speechless-) did i hear that tanks will get beat up twice as much (nerfing defense,parry,avoidance and mitigation), but healers dont get their improves yet ?*sigh*

[Chtug]

templars getting a nerf in healing output  too..

[CasombraHellstalk]

What is the point in all these nerfs? Why make fighters get beat up more and healers unable to heal effectively and get beat up more? This doesn't make sense!

[Kylan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CasombraHellstalker wrote:What is the point in all these nerfs? Why make fighters get beat up more and healers unable to heal effectively and get beat up more? This doesn't make sense! <div></div><hr></blockquote> <font color="#ffff00"><i>"Our primary goal is to eliminate cases where some characters could make themselves virtually immune to attack through buff stacking."</i> <font color="#ffffff">That's why.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font> </font>

[kaoriknigh]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=1>*** Combat Changes ***</FONT></STRONG></P> <P><FONT size=1>NOTE: We are now beginning to test significant changes to the combat system. Our primary goal is to eliminate cases where some characters could make themselves virtually immune to attack through buff stacking. We also want to better delineate the tanking ability of the four archetypes: fighters should tank significantly better than scouts, scouts should tank better than priests, and priests should tank better than mages. In addition, we are smoothing out player and NPC progression so there are no longer sudden increases in difficulty around the class and subclass levels. Overall, the con color of your opponent should be a lot more meaningful and will better indicate the level of challenge you're about to undertake.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>Our intent is that the game feels and plays basically the way it always has for soloers and small group players. Groups and raid forces taking on powerful targets should find a greater level of challenge. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>These changes will be undergoing extensive evaluation and tweaking on Test server. Please understand that we will not release these changes to the live servers until we are confident that they have the desired effect, so they may not go to the live servers with Live Update #7. We appreciate hearing your feedback on the official forums.</FONT></P> <P><STRONG><FONT size=1>Avoidance</FONT></STRONG></P> <P><FONT size=1>- Your likelihood of avoiding an attack is now based on two primary factors:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1><SPAN>  </SPAN>- The con color of the attacker.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1><SPAN>  </SPAN>- The type of armor you are wearing. The heavier your armor, the lower your chances of avoiding an attack.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>- Increasing your Defense skill gives you a better chance of avoiding attacks, but there is now a cap on how much it can be buffed or debuffed.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>- Increasing your Agility improves your base chance of avoiding an attack, but it will not improve your likelihood of parrying, deflecting, or blocking with a shield.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>- There is now a cap on the effectiveness of Deflection buffs and debuffs.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>- Mages and Priests no longer receive the Parry skill. It temporarily still shows in the Skills window, but these archetypes will no longer have any chance to parry.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>- There is no longer any way to buff the Parry skill over your current skill cap, and there is a limit on how far it can be debuffed.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>- Shields now have the following base chances to Block: Tower (20%), Kite (19%), Round (5%), Buckler (3%). Your chances to Block scale up or down based on the con of your opponent. Shield buffs no longer have any effect.</FONT></P> <P><STRONG><FONT size=1>Mitigation</FONT></STRONG></P> <P><FONT size=1>- The base mitigation values of armor have been adjusted as follows: Heavy (35%), Medium (25%), Light (20%), Very Light (10%).</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>- Mitigation values scale up or down based on the con color of your attacker.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>- There is now a cap on how much mitigation can be buffed or debuffed.</FONT></P> <P><STRONG><FONT size=1>Damage</FONT></STRONG></P> <P><FONT size=1>- Melee damage bonuses are now calculated based on the attacker's strength versus the defender's agility.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1>- The damage output of both players and NPCs should now increase more smoothly rather than receiving a sharp boost at levels 10 and 20.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>All of that to fix... <STRONG>buff stacking</STRONG>. Anyone else see a flaw in this?<BR></DIV>

[Blackdog183]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kylania wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CasombraHellstalker wrote:<BR>What is the point in all these nerfs? Why make fighters get beat up more and healers unable to heal effectively and get beat up more? This doesn't make sense! <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT color=#ffff00><I>"Our primary goal is to eliminate cases where some characters could make themselves virtually immune to attack through buff stacking."</I><BR><BR><FONT color=#ffffff>That's why.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT><BR></FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I remember the debacle with AGI nerf, in which SOE punished the masses for a few...I remember it very clearly.  A few people have figured out how to stack their defenses to the point of immunity, so SOE is now nerfing everyone?  This makes no sense, instead of such a widespread nerf that will affect everyone hugely, why dont they fix the issue, and change the buffs or hard cap buffing...</P> <P>Also I want to remind the great minds at SOE....dont nerf tanks ability to take a hit without making healers better at the same time, as it stands groups already require 2 healers, I have a funny feeling im going to see alot /ooc group looking for 3rd healer level x to x as I move around the zones.</P>

[Blackdog183]

<FONT color=#cc0000></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Damonious Bane wrote:<BR>-) difference between kite and tower shields is 1% ... speechless</P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>I say good, it should be close as kite shields are used by crusaders, we cant use tower shields, yet we are tanks.  And the argument i have seen about lifetaps, heals and wards is about stupid.  The power cost on my lvl 39 SK lifetaps and wards is so *$%#&! high compared to their benifit I rarely use them at all.  IE 95 power for a 74 point LFT is pretty *$%#&! stupid.  A ward for around 300 against mobs that are hitting for 2k...not really worth using either.</FONT><BR><BR>-) did i hear that tanks will get beat up twice as much (nerfing defense,parry,avoidance and mitigation), but healers dont get their improves yet ?<BR></P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>Tottaly agree with u on this one, they are basically screwing the pooch on this one, makes no sense to remove the patients heart for transplant when the new one isnt their yet doesent it?  IE why would you nerf everyone without doing the healer changes?</FONT></P> <P><BR><BR><BR>*sigh*<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT></DIV>

[Scally W]

Yeh this isn't what we were expecting at all... Where are the enchanter fixes and improvements promised?

[Eneg]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Chtuga1 wrote:templars getting a nerf in healing output  too..<hr></blockquote>Huh?</span><p><strong>Templar changes:</strong></p><p>- Call of Glory is now toggleable and can only be cast on one target.</p><p>- Jusagta's Rune of Just will no longer expire and now has a 0 second reuse.</p><div></div>

[Big Da]

<DIV>It was the wardens who were set for a healing nerf was it not?</DIV>

[Xyg]

Well, to be fair, their combat system has some glaring holes in it. At 40, the difference between fighting an encounter that is level 34 and an encounter that is 35 is huge (both green). The major jump points, like level 20, are absolutely terrible. Their buff stacking has always seemed a little out of whack. The con system is normally off quite a bit, usually producing undercons. So, it's good that they are evaluating the system. What worked on paper and in beta, obviously doesn't work now. I'm not sure I agree with the changes that they are making, but they are the best people to make the changes. They certainly know their system better than I do. Here's hoping that the changes are for the better. <div></div>

[Damonious Ba]

id really like to hear from test players how they experience the patch. especially regarding raids .. cant think of darathar wenn defense, mitigation and avoidance is nerfed

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Damonious Bane wrote:<BR>id really like to hear from test players how they experience the patch. especially regarding raids .. cant think of darathar wenn defense, mitigation and avoidance is nerfed<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Um Big D is 58, you dont mitigate much of his attack anyways even with 305 defence and buffed out to the max. after this patch they may balance him so more guilds can beat him.

[Ibis]

you dont mitigate much but with 305 defense you sure as hell avoid a lot.  305 = level 61 sir.  that'd be a 61 tank's avoidance versus a level 58 raid con, making him a blue as far as his accuracy.  And 305 is weak, you can go higher.<div></div>

[a6eaq]

<P></P> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote: <P>Damonious Bane wrote:<BR>-) difference between kite and tower shields is 1% ... speechless</P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>I say good, it should be close as kite shields are used by crusaders, we cant use tower shields, yet we are tanks.  </FONT></P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Well so what that you are a Tank.  Let's see... hmmmm... a kite shield is SMALLER than a tower shield.  Bigger shield = more protection.  Ever wonder why the Romans used them for over 400 years?  I do agree that they need to be close, but 1% is a lot ridiculous!  You are given a smaller shield because you have the oppurtunity to heal yourself ever so slightly while a Guardian does not.  We are equal but in different ways.  I bet you would be screaming if Sony said Guardians could now heal themselves now wouldn't you?  Don't ask for an advantage for your class over another because that is what you are essentially asking for.  It does not matter if that heal/life tap is small, or your ward is only 300 points.  That is still more than a guardian can do to himself, so yes we do deserve a higher advantage on our shields.</DIV>

[AzraelAzgard]

<P>Tower shield 20% Kite shield 19% is just rofl.</P> <P>Kite shields are about a quarter of the size of a tower shield yet they offer just 1% less protection? ha!</P> <P>Ok bucklers are basically wooden cup holders and they should have low protection but atleast 5%?</P> <P>Round shields are as big as kite shields just a diff shape but as you need to seperate scouts and fighters, make round shields 10%.</P> <P>Kite shield 15% 19% compared to a 20% tower shield is hilarious.</P> <P>Tower 20% is fine.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Talking shields though, Heavy armour casters with a buckler is hilarious, as is chainmail caster with a buckler.</P> <P>Ok its not EQ but a lot of the basics apply.</P> <P>Clerics should be able to use kite shields, our mitigation is allready nerfed to hell and with no chnace of avoiding any hits now heavy armour AGI counts for nothing clerics will need all the AC they can get. Kite shields fit with heavy armour, bucklers are laughable.</P> <P>Shammy - Round shield, its fits from EQ and a caster in chain with a buckler is also laughable.</P> <P>Druids - buckler fine, it fits, they are nimble healers dodging blows, they want a small buckler for mild protection but dont want to carry around anything heavy.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also how about giving Tower shields meaningfull stats?</P> <P>They are Warrior only, yet you give them WIS and INT?</P> <P> </P> <P>I realise you we're very imaginative at all creating armour scene as there are about 2 armour looks for each type of armour, heavy medium light very light. And you werent  very imaginative on stats scene as every slot has the same basic stats no matter what the armour type, i.e. Shoulder is STA and WIS etc. Bar a few special items like D'Morte and Heritages etc.</P> <P>But come on, you can atleast make tower shields STR STA AGI maybe? Im not even a tank but I think its laughable when I see 900AC shields with 15 INT and WIS for a Guardian.</P> <P> </P> <P>I realise no one wants to put in the creativity of EQ where we had Racial restrictions on armour, class restrictions, Different armour looks based on Race / Class / Armour Type. And the different class / race combos on each piece of armour actually meant something.</P> <P>Like WAR armour had STR STA AGI DEX as basics not INT and CHA.</P> <P> </P> <P>But atleast some differentiation between armour types?</P> <P>How about some PoP style Class armour? kinda like D'Morte stuff but better?</P> <P>Heavy armour for clerics? It has WIS STA and AGI?</P> <P>Heavy armour for fighters has STR STA AGI?</P> <P> </P> <P>You see where Im going? It wouldnt be that hard to implement, how about a nice PoP style Class armour quest for new expansion?</P> <P> </P> <P>Meaningfull armour stats for all classes !           </P> <P> </P> <P>Even Rangers ! (Rangers request chest with clicky self rezz) <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Sebastien]

Mob DPS is currently being scaled down, in response to the higher hit rates. <div></div>

[Miral]

need magic aegis shields for casters like EQOA had... shield made of magical energy... and maybe even aegis from the DnD type games, a shield that you can wear while still using both hands for other things...

[Blackdog183]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> a6eaq wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote: <P>Damonious Bane wrote:<BR>-) difference between kite and tower shields is 1% ... speechless</P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>I say good, it should be close as kite shields are used by crusaders, we cant use tower shields, yet we are tanks.  </FONT></P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Well so what that you are a Tank.  Let's see... hmmmm... a kite shield is SMALLER than a tower shield.  Bigger shield = more protection.  Ever wonder why the Romans used them for over 400 years?  I do agree that they need to be close, but 1% is a lot ridiculous!  You are given a smaller shield because you have the oppurtunity to heal yourself ever so slightly while a Guardian does not.  We are equal but in different ways.  I bet you would be screaming if Sony said Guardians could now heal themselves now wouldn't you?  Don't ask for an advantage for your class over another because that is what you are essentially asking for.  It does not matter if that heal/life tap is small, or your ward is only 300 points.  That is still more than a guardian can do to himself, so yes we do deserve a higher advantage on our shields.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Are you serious, I mean please tell me your joking.</P> <P>I would GLADLY give up my pathetic lifetaps, in a heartbeat.  Is return I want your hold the line skill, as well as your by point increase on base stats.</P> <P>Im sorry but the argument about SK lifetaps and wards if not a good one man.  First off, my lifetap doesent even heal me for 1/20th of my hitpoints, If I chain cast all 3 of my lifetaps and an HO starter, I get back less than 200hps, for well over 300 power cost.  Our grp lifetap , insatiable hunger....ya right, barely goes off.  Our ward, if pathetic.  Unholy blessing(lvl 40 ward) at adept 1 is 471 point ward for 110 power.  471 points...thats not even a full hit from a level 40 mob.  Not to mention the lifetap proc thats supposed to be on the *$%#&! thing doesent work!</P> <P> </P> <P>So yes I would gladly give up my wards and LFT's if I could get and hold aggro without expending hardly any power...As a SK I have to pretty much keep a consistant casting of a few spells to keep aggro, got forbid a SK loses aggro, cause we can and will burn an entire power bar getting it back.  So would that be a fair enough trade, you can have the *$%#&! things, but I want my taunts made on par with yours, and I want my stats increased to match.</P> <P>And before you go arguing about how warriors are *just different* but equal, I will call BS before you start, I have a warrior alt...I know how it is on both sides of the fence, do you have a SK alt?  If you dont, then dont even bother, because you just dont know both sides.</P>

[Anlari]

Personaly, I'd be happy if tower shields provided a large boost to defense like they are supposed to and add a penalty to hit.  Afterall, you have to swing around that mobile wall your carrying as well.  Reducing it to just a 1% difference is a little odd to me and will certainly make them more of a novelty rather then the standard shields used by the warriors.

[Damonious Ba]

<blockquote><hr>Blackdog183 wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> a6eaq wrote: <P></P> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote: <P>Damonious Bane wrote:-) difference between kite and tower shields is 1% ... speechless</P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>I say good, it should be close as kite shields are used by crusaders, we cant use tower shields, yet we are tanks. </FONT></P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Well so what that you are a Tank. Let's see... hmmmm... a kite shield is SMALLER than a tower shield. Bigger shield = more protection. Ever wonder why the Romans used them for over 400 years? I do agree that they need to be close, but 1% is a lot ridiculous! You are given a smaller shield because you have the oppurtunity to heal yourself ever so slightly while a Guardian does not. We are equal but in different ways. I bet you would be screaming if Sony said Guardians could now heal themselves now wouldn't you? Don't ask for an advantage for your class over another because that is what you are essentially asking for. It does not matter if that heal/life tap is small, or your ward is only 300 points. That is still more than a guardian can do to himself, so yes we do deserve a higher advantage on our shields.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Are you serious, I mean please tell me your joking.</P> <P>I would GLADLY give up my pathetic lifetaps, in a heartbeat. Is return I want your hold the line skill, as well as your by point increase on base stats.</P> <P>Im sorry but the argument about SK lifetaps and wards if not a good one man. First off, my lifetap doesent even heal me for 1/20th of my hitpoints, If I chain cast all 3 of my lifetaps and an HO starter, I get back less than 200hps, for well over 300 power cost. Our grp lifetap , insatiable hunger....ya right, barely goes off. Our ward, if pathetic. Unholy blessing(lvl 40 ward) at adept 1 is 471 point ward for 110 power. 471 points...thats not even a full hit from a level 40 mob. Not to mention the lifetap proc thats supposed to be on the *$%#&! thing doesent work!</P> <P> </P> <P>So yes I would gladly give up my wards and LFT's if I could get and hold aggro without expending hardly any power...As a SK I have to pretty much keep a consistant casting of a few spells to keep aggro, got forbid a SK loses aggro, cause we can and will burn an entire power bar getting it back. So would that be a fair enough trade, you can have the *$%#&! things, but I want my taunts made on par with yours, and I want my stats increased to match.</P> <P>And before you go arguing about how warriors are *just different* but equal, I will call BS before you start, I have a warrior alt...I know how it is on both sides of the fence, do you have a SK alt? If you dont, then dont even bother, because you just dont know both sides.</P> <hr></blockquote>Size:towershield approx 3-4 times larger than a kite shield, and you only block 1% more ?i honestly dont care about balancing here, just as a matter of fact that devs dont seem to have put any thought in that subject. there could be by far more ways to balance that. give tower shields more blocking% , give it an attack malus .. since its obvious something different if you have to swing ya sword past a door-sized shield or past a kiteshield.and as a matter of fact: SKs and Palas are NOT allowed to use tower shields .. accept it, and please dont cry for nerf because tower shields could be somewhat better than kiteshields. and only bc you cant use them, i foresee tears <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Damonious Bane on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:56 AM</span>

[Blackdog183]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Damonious Bane wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> a6eaq wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote: <P>Damonious Bane wrote:<BR>-) difference between kite and tower shields is 1% ... speechless</P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>I say good, it should be close as kite shields are used by crusaders, we cant use tower shields, yet we are tanks. </FONT></P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Well so what that you are a Tank. Let's see... hmmmm... a kite shield is SMALLER than a tower shield. Bigger shield = more protection. Ever wonder why the Romans used them for over 400 years? I do agree that they need to be close, but 1% is a lot ridiculous! You are given a smaller shield because you have the oppurtunity to heal yourself ever so slightly while a Guardian does not. We are equal but in different ways. I bet you would be screaming if Sony said Guardians could now heal themselves now wouldn't you? Don't ask for an advantage for your class over another because that is what you are essentially asking for. It does not matter if that heal/life tap is small, or your ward is only 300 points. That is still more than a guardian can do to himself, so yes we do deserve a higher advantage on our shields.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Are you serious, I mean please tell me your joking.</P> <P>I would GLADLY give up my pathetic lifetaps, in a heartbeat. Is return I want your hold the line skill, as well as your by point increase on base stats.</P> <P>Im sorry but the argument about SK lifetaps and wards if not a good one man. First off, my lifetap doesent even heal me for 1/20th of my hitpoints, If I chain cast all 3 of my lifetaps and an HO starter, I get back less than 200hps, for well over 300 power cost. Our grp lifetap , insatiable hunger....ya right, barely goes off. Our ward, if pathetic. Unholy blessing(lvl 40 ward) at adept 1 is 471 point ward for 110 power. 471 points...thats not even a full hit from a level 40 mob. Not to mention the lifetap proc thats supposed to be on the *$%#&! thing doesent work!</P> <P></P> <P>So yes I would gladly give up my wards and LFT's if I could get and hold aggro without expending hardly any power...As a SK I have to pretty much keep a consistant casting of a few spells to keep aggro, got forbid a SK loses aggro, cause we can and will burn an entire power bar getting it back. So would that be a fair enough trade, you can have the *$%#&! things, but I want my taunts made on par with yours, and I want my stats increased to match.</P> <P>And before you go arguing about how warriors are *just different* but equal, I will call BS before you start, I have a warrior alt...I know how it is on both sides of the fence, do you have a SK alt? If you dont, then dont even bother, because you just dont know both sides.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><BR>Size:<BR>towershield approx 3-4 times larger than a kite shield, and you only block 1% more ?<BR><BR><BR>i honestly dont care about balancing here, just as a matter of fact that devs dont seem to have put any thought in that subject. there could be by far more ways to balance that. give tower shields more blocking% , give it an attack malus .. since its obvious something different if you have to swing ya sword past a door-sized shield or past a kiteshield.<BR><BR>and as a matter of fact: SKs and Palas are NOT allowed to use tower shields .. accept it, and please dont cry for nerf because tower shields could be somewhat better than kiteshields. and only bc you cant use them, i foresee tears <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <P>Message Edited by Damonious Bane on <SPAN class=date_text>04-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I wasnt crying because I cant use a kite shield, those words never left my mouth...err keyboard.  If I remember correctly, it was infact a guardian that was complaing about the differnce only being 1%.  Tell you what, this would be acceptable to me, they prove a better chance of blocking, at a severe reduction on attack power and capability.  When I say severe, I mean severe, after all it is a big ol' shield now isnt it.  Im shure that there will be people who think that isnt fair, but hey, I dont think its fair that I have to spend 1k power to accomplish the same thing that a warrior can with a couple taunts, and that is to hold aggro.

[DarkRenown]

<DIV>Wow, heated discussion abotu shields.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my two penneth..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do think the Diff between Tower and Kite is silly, like a previous poster said, I would expect something more like 20% and 15%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My reasoning, is due to the size and use of a Tower Shield. Historically, they are a moving door. The whole point being, you hide behind it, or work around it, and do quick darting attacks.</DIV> <DIV>Whereas a Kite shield, is used differently, and much more in a traditional 'fighting' style, block and hit, block and hit etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My main is a Zerker, and I use a Tower Shield. I like it. I also use a 2H Big Hammer as well, because, again, I like it.</DIV> <DIV>For a Tank (be it Guardian or whatever), they're 'role' is to be the wall, be the focal point, and take the hits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rather than make Tower/Kite so close, or reduce the attack of a Tower Shield wielder, I would personally prefer a more realistic combination of weapons.</DIV> <DIV>Example. Using a Tower Shield, and a Longsword is practically impossible. The swing of the sword, and techniques are extremely space consuming, they always have been, thats why Kite shields were so useful, giving that defence, and the chance to use a nice sword.</DIV> <DIV>If I wield a Tower Shield, I shoudl be limited to smaller, stabbnig weapons (e.g. Gladius for which the Romans were renowned). The Tower is my door, from which I pop out, and stab, pop out and stab, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tanks already have good taunts, and good aggro holding ability (although it is tricky with the damage some Mages put out, but we can do it). In a group, I focus on using those to retain aggro, not damage. My damage is a bonus, not the be all and end all. So a restriction on the weapon would make sense, and not hurt in groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I want to solo or duo, where my damage is more important, I could switch to a Kite or use my 2 Hander for damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This way, the Tanks (Guardians, Zerkers etc) retain the bonuses of the Tower when in a group MT situation. For roles like the SK, they have ways of retaining aggro, but predominantly they are a fighter/mage and not really designed to be an MT (not saying they don't do a great job when they do MT, just that this role was never designed to be the MT).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, this is by no means conclusive, or an attempt to flame anyone. Just my thoughts, and feelings.</DIV>

[mrfl]

<DIV>Just my 2cp, but in my mind it seems as though SOE have taken a broadsword to what could be sorted with a knife. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Surely these changes should be implemented (if at all) in stages, until the right balance is struck.</DIV>

[AzraelAzgard]

<P>As with the logistics of most of the changes about.</P> <P>You cant teach common sense =/</P>

[Xlap]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkRenown wrote:<BR> <DIV>Wow, heated discussion abotu shields.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my two penneth..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do think the Diff between Tower and Kite is silly, like a previous poster said, I would expect something more like 20% and 15%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My reasoning, is due to the size and use of a Tower Shield. Historically, they are a <A href="http://searchmiracle.com/text/search.php?qq=Moving" target=_blank>moving</A> door. The whole point being, you hide behind it, or work around it, and do quick darting attacks.</DIV> <DIV>Whereas a Kite shield, is used differently, and much more in a traditional 'fighting' style, block and hit, block and hit etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My main is a Zerker, and I use a Tower Shield. I like it. I also use a 2H Big Hammer as well, because, again, I like it.</DIV> <DIV>For a Tank (be it Guardian or whatever), they're 'role' is to be the wall, be the focal point, and take the hits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rather than make Tower/Kite so close, or reduce the attack of a Tower Shield wielder, I would personally prefer a more realistic combination of weapons.</DIV> <DIV>Example. Using a Tower Shield, and a Longsword is practically impossible. The swing of the sword, and techniques are extremely space consuming, they always have been, thats why Kite shields were so useful, giving that defence, and the chance to use a nice sword.</DIV> <DIV>If I wield a Tower Shield, I shoudl be limited to smaller, stabbnig weapons (e.g. Gladius for which the Romans were renowned). The Tower is my door, from which I pop out, and stab, pop out and stab, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tanks already have good taunts, and good aggro holding ability (although it is tricky with the damage some Mages put out, but we can do it). In a group, I focus on using those to retain aggro, not damage. My damage is a bonus, not the be all and end all. So a restriction on the weapon would make sense, and not hurt in groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I want to solo or duo, where my damage is more important, I could switch to a Kite or use my 2 Hander for damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This way, the Tanks (Guardians, Zerkers etc) retain the bonuses of the Tower when in a group MT situation. <FONT color=#ff3300>For roles like the SK, they have ways of retaining aggro, but predominantly they are a fighter/mage and not really designed to be an MT (not saying they don't do a great job when they do MT, just that this role was never designed to be the MT).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, this is by no means conclusive, or an attempt to flame anyone. Just my thoughts, and feelings.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>huh? errmmm...not to sound mean...but i suppose the multiple posts regarding the fact that ALL tanks were built to be main tanks (and all healers main healers, etc.) is wrong? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sorry, cant seem to get search working or i'd find the posts<BR></DIV> <DIV>P.S. i totally agree, tower shields should have a MUCH better block rate, but they should also come with a HUGE attack/speed debuff when not using small weapons</DIV><p>Message Edited by Xlapus on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:52 PM</span>