Harvesting is becomeing worthless...

[Telad]

<DIV>Prices of harvested resources is starting to get out of hand.  Some Teir 5 resources are starting to go for 10-20 copper on some servers at times.  I suggest that players should be allowed to sell their harvested resources to npc vendors. This will help the adventurer make some more money and will also establish a price floor, or minimum price these resources would sell for to other players.  The price to these npc's shouldnt be much maybe 1 copper or so for Tier 1 resources up to 75 copper for Tier 5 resources.  This would give some players a reason not to just destroy what they harvest because its not worth selling them to players anymore. Also the prices are not very high so it should not affect tradeskillers much at all.  for example if the are paying 50 copper a piece for a resource from a Tier 5 zone and this is starts they may have to pay 1 silver for that same resource, an extra 50 copper pieces will not affect their end product prices or the cost to make them much at all.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Teladar on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:41 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Teladar on <span class=date_text>04-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:49 PM</span>

[majinvegeta52]

<DIV>Making raws sellable to the NPCs is not something you wana do..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It just makes the nods a repeatable cash source.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if it was say 25c for a T5 resource..  thats 75c per node..  NOT ALOT  but *$%#&! when you are a harvester you could make some silly coin rather easy, while looking for the rares. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ATM Raws have a set value..  but only the crafters see it in their final products..   Take a t5 meat harvest from a den..  I was able to buy it for a silver ( before food changes)  turn that meat into a 1h steak and sell it back to a Npc for 5s and change..   IF the harvesters knew what the NPCs valued the rares at you have your " value " of the raw..  I know personally I will not buy a raw if its over what a npc will give me for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Thesp]

10-20c for <STRONG>common</STRONG> harvests is very reasonable IMO, regardless of tier.

[Morgon]

<P>Look at it from this point of view...   I won't bother putting anything up for sale anymore unless I can get at least 1s for it.  Which means that only a few food harvests and rares do I bother putting up anymore.  Everything else I simply destroy.  Mostly to save space for other things to sell.  I'll put stuff up for sale, and if it won't sell over the course of a week, I won't even lower the price below the 1s mark, I simply destroy it and make a note not to bother trying to sell it again.</P> <P>The market is pretty skewed right now, and I don't see any way to correct it.  Selling back to the vendor won't fix it.  It will only make items even more rare on the broker.  Mainly because it will be easier to just sell it off rather than to let it set on a merchant for days waiting for it to maybe sell.</P>

[Thesp]

It is worth selling when you can deal in volume. Bring in hundreds of harvested items, price them under anyone else on the broker and it will add up when they're all sold.

[Telad]

<DIV>you make some good points just gets annoying harvest for hours on end get no rares and then have to sell all the stuff for pennies.  Just have to accept it I guess thanks for the comments and counterpoints. </DIV>

[BlackHa]

<P> Raw resources will always fetch a price at what  the market will bear. I have 7 alts that adventure <STRONG>and</STRONG> craft. I can honestly say that I have never purchased raw resources to level my tradeskills. On occasion I will buy 1 or 2 to complete an item. I gather all of my own resources for the following reasons:</P> <P>1) Maximize profit</P> <P>2) Search for rares</P> <P>3) Returns a redeeming value for time spent between battles,waiting for groups to form, groupmember afk, etc.   </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>I would venture to say that the introduction of the imbue recipes and the frequency of the drops for their associated components has slightly hurt your business. What has impacted your business even more is offline selling. You are facing more competition as there is greater supply at any point in time...hence the price will drop.</P> <P>Let me drop a few hints for you....</P> <P>Fayberry, Cinnamon, Plantain, Cypress, Apples, and Honey. Further, there will always be a strong demand for roots (ie..belladonna). Think consumables. I guarantee that if any of the forementioned items are sold for a few copper pieces, they will not last long.  </P> <P>Finally I would like to comment on the developer's economic concept. I will paraphrase what I have read. I can't give you the exact words, but will try to give you the "jist of it".</P> <P>Adventuring will largely create "new money". In other words, you find drops and sell them to NPC vendors for cash. You take this cash and buy goods from tradeskillers. The development team does not intend for tradeskillers to generate "new money". Instead, they make profit from the adventurers "existing money". This is the means for the developers to maintain some from of control over the economy. Many disagree with the concept, but I have yet to see an alternative proposed by the community that is much better. </P> <P>How does this affect you? </P> <P> </P> <P>When you sell raws (as opposed to crafting them) your are not creating "new money". Indded, you are tapping existing money. This goes against the developer's vision of how the economy should function. In summary I will say this....I am not sympathetic towards your marketing woes. And I doubt you will get much sympathy from the developers as well. As I stated in the first line of the post...Raw resources wii fetch a price at what the market will bear.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[BlackHa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackHair wrote:<BR> <P> Raw resources will always fetch a price at what  the market will bear. I have 7 alts that adventure <STRONG>and</STRONG> craft. I can honestly say that I have never purchased raw resources to level my tradeskills. On occasion I will buy 1 or 2 to complete an item. I gather all of my own resources for the following reasons:</P> <P>1) Maximize profit</P> <P>2) Search for rares</P> <P>3) Returns a redeeming value for time spent between battles,waiting for groups to form, groupmember afk, etc.  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>I would venture to say that the introduction of the imbue recipes and the frequency of the drops for their associated components has slightly hurt your business. What has impacted your business even more is offline selling. You are facing more competition as there is greater supply at any point in time...hence the price will drop.</P> <P>Let me drop a few hints for you....</P> <P>Fayberry, Cinnamon, Plantain, Cypress, Apples, and Honey. Further, there will always be a strong demand for roots (ie..belladonna). Think consumables. I guarantee that if any of the forementioned items are sold for a few copper pieces, they will not last long.  </P> <P>Finally I would like to comment on the developer's economic concept. I will paraphrase what I have read. I can't give you the exact words, but will try to give you the "jist of it".</P> <P>Adventuring will largely create "new money". In other words, you find drops and sell them to NPC vendors for cash. You take this cash and buy goods from tradeskillers. The development team does not intend for tradeskillers to generate "new money". Instead, they make profit from the adventurers "existing money". This is the means for the developers to maintain some from of control over the economy. Many disagree with the concept, but I have yet to see an alternative proposed by the community that is much better.</P> <P>How does this affect you?</P> <P> </P> <P>When you sell raws (as opposed to crafting them) your are not creating "new money". Indeed, you are tapping existing money. This goes against the developer's vision of how the economy should function. In summary I will say this....I am not sympathetic towards your marketing woes. And I doubt you will get much sympathy from the developers as well. As I stated in the first line of the post...Raw resources wii fetch a price at what the market will bear.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sorry for the redundancy, but I know the response you have coming.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you sell the raws to NPC's, you <STRONG>are</STRONG> creating "new money". The problem lies with tradeskillers selling raws as well. As I stated before, it is not intended for tradeskillers to create "new money" with the exception of workshop tasks.<BR></P>

[Xecr]

<blockquote><hr>Teladar wrote:I suggest that players should be allowed to sell their harvested resources to npc vendors. <hr></blockquote>You can sell harvested resources to npc merchants, but only after you have fashioned it into a product. Not too long ago, the dev's assigned a value to all resources. While you can't sell the raw resource to NPC vendors, you can use that raw resource in making a product and then selling that product to the NPC vendor. The price will include the value of the raw resources used, and fuel for the buy price.You gotta work for your money....imagine that!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Xec

[Jan It]

<div></div>Wrong topic. Harvesting ain´t worthless. You harvest to find rares. Common harvests are a waste product of rare harvesting. I wouldn´t mind NPC vendors to pay the same cash for raws though, as is calculated for raws on vendor sellback prices for crafted items. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jan Itor on <span class=date_text>04-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:45 AM</span>

[prisoner]

<DIV>Cheap raws are good for everybody.  It is pure profit to the harvester,  i.e.  it doesn't cost a harvester any money to make money off their raws.  Cheap raws for the tradeskiller in turn allows them to craft items cheaper,  and thus sell them to the consumer cheaper.  Of course this is only for the non consumable items.  Pity that consumable raws will always fetch more money and keep things a bit tight around the belt,  but thats for another thread <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>17  </DIV>

[IpseDix]

<FONT size=3></FONT> <DIV><FONT size=3>I do agree with the original poster !!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>As it is now, only crafters have benefits from harvesting but they are players that have decided to play an adventure game doing the same thing(s) infinite times  ....... bah, it's their life !</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>I would see harvesting resource to be sellable to NPC , even for few coppers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>This would help alot economy in all servers, since it seems that ONLY crafters are earning money in these days (since SOE set items to be used only if you attune them).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zahmekos]

<font size="3"><i>As it is now, only crafters have benefits from harvesting but they are players that have decided to play an adventure game doing the same thing(s) infinite times  ....... bah, it's their life ! </i> And you decided to harvest  thesame thing(s) infinite times....bahh its your life !! </font><i><font size="3">since it seems that ONLY crafters are earning money in these days </font></i><font size="3">Go crafting for 5h than hunting for 5h and tell me again who gets more money AND has more fun. The devs wanted to put some money  out of the game for a better longterm economy.  With your idea you just put more money in the game ! </font><div></div>

[Nakato]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teladar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Prices of harvested resources is starting to get out of hand.  Some Teir 5 resources are starting to go for 10-20 copper on some servers at times.  I suggest that players should be allowed to sell their harvested resources to npc vendors. This will help the adventurer make some more money and will also establish a price floor, or minimum price these resources would sell for to other players.  The price to these npc's shouldnt be much maybe 1 copper or so for Tier 1 resources up to 75 copper for Tier 5 resources.  This would give some players a reason not to just destroy what they harvest because its not worth selling them to players anymore. Also the prices are not very high so it should not affect tradeskillers much at all.  for example if the are paying 50 copper a piece for a resource from a Tier 5 zone and this is starts they may have to pay 1 silver for that same resource, an extra 50 copper pieces will not affect their end product prices or the cost to make them much at all.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Teladar on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:41 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Teladar on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:49 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Completely against the idea. Heres why, HarvestBot 3rd party bot program that allows for automated node harvesting is running rampant on my server. I really dont like the idea of making it easier for botter scum to make more cash selling the common resources straight to merchant npc without having to do anything for them. </P> <P>Crack down on those players in t5 zones who always seem to be running smack into trees, cliffs, and harvesting the same node as another player while never being able to carry on a conversation.  If the devs decided they want to put a higher price floor on the tradeskill items, the price floor should come from a higher value calculated from the raw when you finish an item. Not just mass dumping harvests with no change for cash.</P> <P>I argue that supply is radically increased by having people afk harvesting using a bot program. Perma-ban 'em is what I say.<BR></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Platfing]

I destroy anything that's not a rare (except for items used to make drink).  It's not worth my inventory space.  Will anybody that's level 35+ want to even take the time to price something worth 10-20 c ?

[FrostP]

<P>On Antonia bayle the problem is becomming extreme, so many bot harvesters are selling teak, diamondine, bloodstone and fulginate for 1 copper its getting silly.</P> <P>I spent 3 hours harvesting and I put it up for 1 copper and made about 4 silver I remember when teir 4 items would sell for 3-5 silver a piece.</P> <P>bot harvesting is killing the market to the stage where nobody will bother selling harvests anymore and that means if SOE get rid of the bots eventually tier 5 harvests wont even be available on the broker because nobody will bother.</P> <P>Being able to sell to an npc has some merit, it would set a standard by which buyers would have to match or buy for more otherwise the product wouldn't be available on broker however I have no wish to punish the crafters by making them buy at a higher price then npc's then I want the harvesters to have to sell for 1 copper.</P> <P>Ultimately though allowing harvests to be sold to npc's for money just makes it more prophitable for bots while they are harvesting rares, something I would never want.</P> <P>I would rather the solution was to make rares "less rare" reducing the need to harvest for hours, reducing the boredom, reducing the ammount of owrthless stock on the broker, reducing the value of rares because they are easier to find and of course as a result everybody spends more time adventuring or crafting and then the harvesters might start making money from normal harvests because not everyone capable will be mass farming for rares all day.</P>

[WuphonsReach]

Write this phrase 100x: <b>Supply vs Demand</b>If supply exceeds demand, prices fall. As prices fall, suppliers exit the market, and eventually prices will stabilize.If demand exceeds supply, prices rise. As prices rise, more suppliers enter the market and increase the supply until prices fall.You cannot control the price. You have no control over the value that others place on a particular good (either as sellers or buyers). If the price is not appealing to you, then that's all that's wrong with it. Nothing wrong with the market, the market is simply not meeting your *personal* expectations.

[Syanis]

<P>The prices on raws has sunk to a huge low. Making raws vendorable however won't fix this. Will simply make it far harder for a crafter to get what he/she needs. Already had the problems before people farming for rares make life of a crafter who wants to harvest their own stuff hell. But making it so alot less will be on broker will be worse still. </P> <P> </P> <P>Now lets take a look at why raws went down so low. SoE constantly nerfed crafters makeing their life harder. Making crafting significantly harder with having a much higher neg failure rate. I used to be able to crank out pristines using my technique w/o any problems. Now I still crank pristines but at 1/5th the speed and alot of fighting. Even when I'm a 47 woodworker making a level 40 subcomponent I can get a huge negative hit rate. While I don't lose the item or pristine it makes it take a significant larger amount of time. Then SoE took out interdependancy which was a good thing and just needed a bit of balancing, instance alchemists were needed by everyone and alchemists needed noone to level. Provisioners had the best market and needed noone either. Rare crafted items are worthwhile for the most part.... however normal crafted items for most craft class's aren't worth it and very few buy it. Then SoE desided that crafters had potential to make to much cash, aye some things needed balancing but they made crafting a huge boring grind that sucks money out of you. Only a few crafters had a massive imbalance of how much cash they could make yet instead of balancing nerf the whole thing.</P> <P> </P> <P>So now crafting has little use for most crafter class's and now with Imbu's always at the 9th level of every tier people only want imbu'd if it can be. As a 47 woodworker I get multiple tells on people wanting stuff but soon as I say I can make it but not imbu till 49 they say nevermind and take off. Many crafters quit the game entirely or simply quit crafting. Crafters cannot afford to pay 5sp for a T5 raw since more then 1-1.5sp per raw willl soak whatever coin reembursement for costs. When theres 0 profit from leveling crafter paying 1sp per raw you can't charge 5sp and hope to sell besides the odd raws someone is using for a rare combine.</P> <P> </P> <P>SoE literally ruined crafting making those who were 49-50 before the nerfs make a fortune jacking people 60gp for a T5 rare combine now and those lower get no work because they can't imbu what people want. So now if I want to make money I have to hit 49.</P> <P> </P> <P>Syaniss 47 Woodworker Steamfont</P>

[Dolf Goodchee]

The problem is market flood caused by offline / out of house selling.  There was a lot of players that weren't the least bit interested in gathering/crafting/selling, but since they can make easy pocket change without having to care about the market, well, the flood is happening.  I posted about this before the patch came out live, and said that without a limit in place, it would start with gathering, and get to the point that of near worthlessness.  Crafting simple items will be next.

[Jezekie]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dolf Goodcheese wrote:The problem is market flood caused by offline / out of house selling.  There was a lot of players that weren't the least bit interested in gathering/crafting/selling, but since they can make easy pocket change without having to care about the market, well, the flood is happening.  I posted about this before the patch came out live, and said that without a limit in place, it would start with gathering, and get to the point that of near worthlessness.  Crafting simple items will be next. <div></div><hr></blockquote>This has nothing to do with offline/online selling. Harvested raws hasn't sold for anything on splitpaw since sony changed the workshop tasks to give crafters little/no gain from buying resources. And thus everone gave up bothering to sell the raws instead they are destroyed. Pure adventurers at lvl 50 that raid every day are struggling to break even with armor repairs and buying food/drinks muchless being able to buy resist gear/potions/ect. The current situation is pretty silly.</span><div></div>

[SavinDwa]

<P>Teladar,</P> <P>I understand where you are coming from.  But your suggestion won't work.  The only reason for harvested items to be in the economy is for crafters to make stuff.  If we make it possible for players to get cash from selling to NPCs they will always take the easy cash approach and sell them -- this will result in a lack of harvested material in the system.  The only solution to that would be to have harvested items purchasable from vendors and effectively break the supply chain between the adventurer/harvesters and the crafters.  This is not a good idea in  my opinion.</P> <P> </P> <P>The problem you are running into is classic supply versus demand.  Right now supply is exceeding demand and driving prices down.  This will result in less people harvesting or more people destroying harvested items.  This will reduce supply and drive prices back up.  It will eventually balance itself out.</P> <P>Its seems to be the one place that supply and demand is working in the game.  The only improvement would be allow crafters to place "buy orders" so that harvesters could see the demand better.</P>

[Tinaran]

<P>I have to agree with Savindwarf on this one. </P> <P> </P> <P>I was thinking to that maybe harvested rares should be lore now that the harvest botters are running all over.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tinaran wrote:<BR> <P>I was thinking to that maybe harvested rares should be lore now that the harvest botters are running all over.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Wouldnt want this. I have multiple crafter alts, making rares lore would make it impossible for me to get the rare harvested by my main into the hands of the alt who could actually make whatever it is that needs to be make, skill upgrade, Palladium torque, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just suck it up all and realize that a) there is more supply out there now and b) maybe crafters got tired of paying the exhorbidant prices being charged on the broker and decided to harvest their own. I know I do, unless really pressed for time, and at that point Id rather buy the sub than the raw.</DIV>

[tek2]

<DIV>just because you spend hours of your life as a harvesting zombie every day and have stacks of crap doesnt mean everyone else does</DIV>

[Macross_JR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thespar wrote:<BR>10-20c for <STRONG>common</STRONG> harvests is very reasonable IMO, regardless of tier.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>just so you know, I accidently hit the rate button on your post, didn't mean to give you a 1 star, sorry.  I agree with you.</P> <P>He is my price break down for harvestables:</P> <P>t1-1cp</P> <P>t2-5cp</P> <P>t3-10cp</P> <P>t4-25cp</P> <P>t5-35cp</P> <P> </P> <P>I find this is a fair price for the harvestables for each teir.  I sell my stuff very fast too.  BTW I'm on the Permafrost server.</P> <DIV>Edit: The only real way for SOE to set a floor for pricing harvestables is to put them on a vendor for a set price.  Like many have said before letting you sell harvestables is bad as it is generating coin, and so is bad.  I also don't see a problem with low prices, I think most servers economies are messed up right now.  I think money grubbing people sell stuff for too much and think their time is worth way to much.  Putting the harvestables on the NPC merchants will set a price cap to keep prices down.  Keeping prices down will help the economy in the long run, SOE will just have to find more things for people to waste thier money on...:smileyhappy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Macross_JR on <span class=date_text>04-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:51 PM</span>

[SavinDwa]

<DIV>Macross_JR,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not sure how you came up with your prices by tier.  Let me start off by saying that my highest level adventurer is in the mid 20s and that my crafters have always purchased materials from the broker.  In other words, we have relied on other players to do the harvesting.   This means that I'm not sure of how much time it takes to harvest stuff.  But ... let me address your "fair price" comment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no such thing as a "fair" price in a free economy with unrestricted supply and demand.  If the demand for something is larger than the supply the price will start to climb (assuming the sellers are watching what is going on).  If supply exceeds demand prices will drop. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The next thing to take into account is that we really have three different groups in the supply chain ... harvesters, retailers and crafters.  What are retailers?  These are the people that make money by buying low and selling high.   The change to allow off line selling has changed things a bit, but these people are controlling price.  Let me explain.  IF the retailers know that demand exceeds supply then they can spend their life at the broker looking for cheap stuff.  For instance, they may decide to "sell" tussah roots at 1 silver 20 copper.  This means that they will "buy" any tussah roots that go on the market for less than that amount.  Lets say they manage to buy 2000 tussah roots at an average of 36 copper each.  They sell 1500 at an average price of 1 silver 20 copper.  The 1500 gets them 1800 silver the 2000 cost them about 720 silver.  A profit of 1080 silver  ... if they run out of room they could just destroy the extra 500 tussah roots they didn't sell!!!!   The retailers want demand to exceed supply.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now lets look at "fairness" from a T5 harvesters point of view.  What is the most stuff you can harvest in an hour?  Lets be nice and say that you can harvest 100 useful things in an hour.  Your price of 35 copper means that they can sell this for 35 silver.  I can't imagine a T5 harvester wanting to make only 35 silver in an hour.   Let me ask a question here .....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the game were changed so that players could buy all "harvested" stuff directly from vendors with unlimited supply at the following prices:</DIV> <DIV>t1-1cp</DIV> <DIV> <P>t2-5cp</P> <P>t3-10cp</P> <P>t4-25cp</P> <P>t5-35cp</P></DIV> <DIV>An vendors were also willing to purchase harvested stuff from players at the same prices would any players waste their time harvesting?  (BOTs might looking for rares, but I'm talking about normal players)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[BlueKnightLPL]

<P>This is a game/virtual economy - and one of the real problems is that we have so many who either don't care about the economy or have no clue.</P> <P>Supply/demand sorts itself out eventually.  When that is short circuted by either price controls or IDIOTS who don't care or have no clue, then we all suffer.</P> <P>Example:  The market for severed briarwood works it's way down to about 25c.  Seems reasonable for both crafters and harvesters.  Most check the "bottom" of the market and match that reasonable price, letting the buyer have the choice of whom to buy from.  A few drop it down to 24 or 23c for the quick sells - but that allows the "matches" to stay in the game.   Then the IDIOTS come in and post everything they have harvested for 1c!!    Not 22,  not 20.  This is what is driving many of us harvesters out of the selling market.  I will NEVER sell anything for 1c.  I will destroy it first, and I like many have destroyed stack after stack of items because of this.</P> <P>Yes, I have tried the buy-up/resell game, but it's just not worth the trouble for a few more copper.  I do it for things that gain me silver and gold - it's worth my time and a bit of fun taking the gamble.  But I won't support the IDIOTS for a little bit of copper.</P> <P>So the result over time is that I will continue to harvest - but will destroy immediately any stacks that have a reputation for not selling for more than a few copper.  I will only keep and market those things I can sell for 25c and up.  That means that when the IDIOTS get tired of doing what they are doing and their supplies dry up that there will be far fewer, if any, suppliers of those goods - because so many like me are destroying the stacks in the field and it's no longer worth our time checking the prices anymore.</P> <P>I understand the inter-dependancies and would price the food vitals at about 25% of the final product costs.  My provisionar friends have told me that this is very fair to them and it's worth it to me to provide this service.  This type of cooperation is what makes an economy really work and grow.  I even have some crafters friends that refuse to buy from the 1cp IDIOTS because they know the long term effect will be bad for them.</P> <P>As for the selling to the NPC venders - I make that choice all the time with the loot I get.  I check the NPC buyback price and if I think I can sell it for more I put it on the market - if not it is removed from the game via the NPC.   This would also happen if the harvested items were changed back to sellable to NPC.  I enjoy the selling part of the game and supplying my crafter friends and others with raw ingredients - for a fair price for my effort.  While I am strongly opposed to price controls, allowing the IDIOTS to get out of the way of our economy by a reasonably low NPC price  might be advantageous long term.  I know I would put a lot more up on my vendor and feel good about providing the materials for the crafters if I could get a reasonable return on my time investment.</P> <P> </P>

[Eneg]

I never thought harvesting was invisioned by the developers of this game as a get-rich-quick scheme. I had thought they invisioned harvesting as a relatively minor time sink for tradeskillers, and that the recent changes brought harvesting more in line with that vision. <div></div>

[IpseDix]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>ROFL... nice to see how many replies come from  .....  CRAFTERS !!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>And we can't expect a crafter would agree with non-crafter players about selling resources to NPCs: if SOE will set NPCs to buy resources from players then every crafter and his dog would be forced to move his @$$ out of his house and his crafting machines, looking for resources ...  bbbrrrrrrrrr !!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I bet crafters won't like this situation where they can't buy their (needed) resources for a few coppers only (because players have sold their resources to NPCs for some FAST money) ...... uuhh? </FONT></DIV></DIV>

[WuphonsReach]

Harvesting was never meant to be a road to riches. Let's take a historical look at *why* people have an inflated view of harvested raws:1) The wholesaler task exploit during the first few weeks of the game. People would camp out in the wholesaler zones (especially in Qeynos), get a wholesaler quest and then 'fulfill' it by buying the resources off of the broker. A T3 wholesaler quest rewards 48sp for 15 items, so any T3 raws that were on the broker for less then 3sp were immediately bought up by these people and used for wholesaler quests.This artificially pegged the price of raws at around 2-3sp for T3. But if you looked at the price of raws that weren't used for wholesaler quests, those were down below the 1sp level and falling.2) The over-priced reward for doing tradeskill writs and wholesaler tasks. Crafters were willing to pay high prices for raws that were used in the T4 and T5 writs/tasks, because the profits to be made from these T4/T5 writs/tasks were extremely high. A T4 task gave back 3-4gp for 10 items, so a crafter could easily pay 5-20sp for a T4 raw and still make a profit. T5 rewards were 17-20gp, alloing them to purchase T5 raws for 20-50sp and still make a profit.Again, raws that weren't used in writs/tasks tended to be very cheap (few silver at most). Raws that were used for writs/tasks were way too expensive to be squandered on making goods for the broker market. Which made for fewer goods on the broker along with higher prices for the buyers....So now that these two artifical issues have been addressed, we're now seeing true <b>Supply vs Demand</b> pricing. Right now, there are simply too many harvesters attempting to dump their wares on the market, which results in rock-bottom prices for raws. There are only two ways that these prices will rise:1) Harvesters stop placing their raws on the market. (Unlikely)2) Demand rises sharply as more players buy crafted goods, which means that crafters desire raws. (Also unlikely)What we are currently seeing for raws is the true market value price of these raws. It probably isn't what you *personally* think raws should sell for, but your *personal* opinion doesn't matter in the marketplace. (The only time your personal value matters is when you are deciding whether to sell an item on the market, or when you are deciding whether to buy a listed item.)

[imready2go]

<P>"... then we all suffer."</P> <P>What a contemptable lie.  I, like the vast majority of others playing this game, am not suffering one single bit from the drop in prices nor the introduction of off-line selling.  I can actually find and afford items I wish to buy, which is my ONLY concern regarding the economy.  I could care less if a select few can no longer afford the 5-room houses they bought when they were happily gouging the rest of us with their over-inflated prices.  (I personally don't care if your toon ends up living in a cardboard box under the North Qeynos Gate bridge.)  Like the vast majority of people playing the game, I do a little of everything: I adventure, I harvest, I tradeskill ... all with no consequences suffered by the drop in prices or by off-line selling.  In the future, please refrain from including myself and most others from your statements of "we all".</P>

[Za]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> majinvegeta5297 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Making raws sellable to the NPCs is not something you wana do..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It just makes the nods a repeatable cash source.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if it was say 25c for a T5 resource..  thats 75c per node..  NOT ALOT  but *$%#&! when you are a harvester you could make some silly coin rather easy, while looking for the rares. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ATM Raws have a set value..  but only the crafters see it in their final products..   Take a t5 meat harvest from a den..  I was able to buy it for a silver ( before food changes)  turn that meat into a 1h steak and sell it back to a Npc for 5s and change..   IF the harvesters knew what the NPCs valued the rares at you have your " value " of the raw..  I know personally I will not buy a raw if its over what a npc will give me for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Having T1 resources sell for 1c each, </P> <P>T2 for 2c each</P> <P>T3 for 5c each</P> <P>T4 for 10c each</P> <P>T5 for 15c each</P> <P>At T5, you SHOULD be able to make a few silver harvesting. Even at this rate of 15c, it would take you 667 harvested items to make 1 gold! At T5, a gold ain't alot! Thats 667 harvested items... or 33 stacks of harvested item! Which would take at lease 100+ nodes to be completely collected from! </P> <P>All that for 1 gold... Sure, at this rate I could make a plat in around a month doing this.</P> <P> </P>

[BlackHa]

<P>As much harvesting as I do (and I'm a tradeskiller/adventurer....don't call me a tradeskiller), I would make a killing on selling raws to npc's. Yet, I don't agree with the concept.  I agree with others that your are simply sifting the trash in your search for rares.</P> <P>So I ask the OP.... If they nerfed some <STRONG>crafted goods</STRONG> (requiring time and fuel) to "No-Value", do you really think they would put a value on raws? It wasn't always like this. At one time, all crafted items could be sold to a NPC.  If they do put value on raws, there will be a lot of ticked off people. No way should a raw have value if some crafted items are of no value. </P> <P>What you are proposing is completely opposite of the developer's track record. I'm sorry (really I mean happy) that the OP's proposal will never fly.</P>

[TheTravell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <P>t1-1cp</P> <P>t2-5cp</P> <P>t3-10cp</P> <P>t4-25cp</P> <P>t5-35cp</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Even 1cp per resource, whatever the tier, would make me feel better than clicking the 'destroy' option regularly. But if it must come to people harvesting for cash, it will be fine as is <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[MiscreantPy]

<DIV>I destroy pretty much everything I harvest, its just not worth the space in my inventory. We're talking 500-1000 t5 commons destroyed without blinking. Why harvest when I can kill green solo mobs and make much much much more money in the same time? This could very well eventually lead to crafters having to adventure/venture out to get the commons they need.</DIV>

[Dysfunction]

Up until about a week ago on Splitpaw prices for fulginate/diamondine/bloodstone were sub-25c most of the time but for the last week something has been driving the prices up. It is now quite common for there to be no T5 ore/stone harvests on the broker for less than 1s. I can't imagine that the supply has dropped significantly in the last week. All the regular Feerrott harvesters are still there nearly 24/7. That really only leaves a (large) increase in demand and I don't see where that is coming from. I can't imagine there has been a sudden influx of T5 armourers, weaponsmiths and jewelers in the last week. <div></div>

[Pheeb]

<div></div> I harvest a lot for: 1) Finding rares (to upgrade spells and source of revenues) 2) Giving the resources to friends/guildies/etc - I get a lot in return in fact - crafter friends make me happy and I'm glad to give them all the resources they might need.... I hit less and less the destroy button since number 2) above. /Cheers <div></div><p>Message Edited by Pheebau on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:29 AM</span>

[Mig]

I am level 50/50. I call total BS on all you people saying that adventures don't make money. I hunted all weekend in tier 5 zones and made good money. It was easier, more fun, and less tedious then crafting. Plus I got quests done, and got exp. And it cost me NOTHING to go out there and hunt.

[dparker7]

<DIV>This was an easily foreseeable consequence of removing the easy ability to do wholesalers tasks, reducing the payouts of writs/tasks, increased numbers of tier 5 harvesters, fuel changes, and the subsequent sellback changes.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since there is no longer an artifical price floor and tradeskillers can no longer make significant profits without selling to an adventurer, there are fewer tradeskillers and they make significantly less items then they did before.  I, for one, basically shelved my tier 5 alchemist and started really pushing to make 50 adventurer.  I may or may not pick alchemy back up, but in any case I wont be buying any supplies as Ive got about 8 24 slot boxes filled with harvests and more coming in everyday.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Necronstreks]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IpseDixit wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>ROFL... nice to see how many replies come from  .....  CRAFTERS !!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>And we can't expect a crafter would agree with non-crafter players about selling resources to NPCs: if SOE will set NPCs to buy resources from players then every crafter and his dog would be forced to move his @$$ out of his house and his crafting machines, looking for resources ...  bbbrrrrrrrrr !!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I bet crafters won't like this situation where they can't buy their (needed) resources for a few coppers only (because players have sold their resources to NPCs for some FAST money) ...... uuhh? </FONT></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Many high-end crafters get all their raws for free from friends and guildies who're just out looking for rares.</P> <P>Secondly, even if I didn't have 2 49+ crafters I still have the sense to realize that being able to sell harvests for money to vendors would create more server wealth.  I know as an adventurer, that yes, I could probably turn around and sell that Ad1 to another player for 10gp... but I still sell it to the vendor because I don't feel like brokering it.  Doing that makes 3gp... 3gp which yes could be spent on repairs, a ticket, broker fees, or buying something from an NPC merchant... but the number of things you might get in 1 night adventuring would probably on average more than equal what you spent to non-PCs... thus inflation begins.</P> <P>Selling harvests to vendors would only ruin our economy.  Look at what happened to prices while the alchemists and the rest of the crafters were still making huge amounts of profit by selling to vendors.  Harvesters all profitted just the same, just not as much as the crafters.  The demand was high for people cranking out interim/finished items to sell to vendors for huge profits... </P> <P>It's truly the crafters that set the value of the raws, not the harvesters.  If they don't sell the harvests for (at a minimum) an amount that said crafter will still break even/profit on, they won't buy it (unless they're ignorant).</P>