Please Remove Broker Commissions (for buyers from offline sellers!!!)

[LobaLobaLo]

<DIV>Offline sales is great, but it's not possible to buy direct from someone offline, so the buyer is forced to eat the 20% commission fee.  Please remove the broker commissions.</DIV><p>Message Edited by LobaLobaLoba on <span class=date_text>04-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:46 AM</span>

[Breed]

Wow...you really CAN'T please everyone <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Dolf Goodchee]

<P>Just the opposite, raise the broker commission to 30% and 50% from the fence for offline / out-of-house selling.</P> <P> </P> <P>Otherwise, a few days into the market flood, you'll understand why.</P>

[aeio]

<span><blockquote><hr>LobaLobaLoba wrote:<div>Offline sales is great, but it's not possible to buy direct from someone offline, so the buyer is forced to eat the 20% commission fee.  Please remove the broker commissions.</div><hr></blockquote> This is good as it gives an incentive to people who want to have online merchants. Leave broker fees as they are... They are necessary. </span><div></div>

[LobaLobaLo]

<DIV>please explain how they are necessary?</DIV>

[zDocW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LobaLobaLoba wrote:<BR> <DIV>please explain how they are necessary?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>There have been numerous post about this - quite a few from the Developers. Reasons are varied but bottom line is it might flood the market with goods - which cheapens things and ruins the economic balance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You got offline selling - 20% commission is more than fair for the ability to sell something without you being there.</DIV>

[Pidgeon]

<DIV>Maybe this is to introduce reputation into the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you offer good service they will remember where you live and buy from you, or maybe it will just force macro'd bots to constantly spam popular zones with advertisements as in Starwars Galaxies.</DIV>

[LobaLobaLo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zDocWho wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LobaLobaLoba wrote:<BR> <DIV>please explain how they are necessary?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>There have been numerous post about this - quite a few from the Developers. Reasons are varied but bottom line is it might flood the market with goods - which cheapens things and ruins the economic balance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You got offline selling - 20% commission is more than fair for the ability to sell something without you being there.</DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Alright, then a tax on the buyer will never prevent or stop the flood of the market with good from any particular seller  Check for yourself.   If you search under bags, you can still find the same individuals selling 20+ containers.  </P> <P>If you wanted to slow down the flooding of the market, you'd tax the seller, not the buyer.</P> <P>Also, the goods that are most affected by the unconditional 20% are the rares.  That sword that was once 10gp from the live seller or12gp from the broker is now uncondtionally 12gp.  This has nothing to do with stopping the flood of goods, either.</P> <P>You still haven't justified why offline selling should carry an unconditional +20% price tag.  If anything, it allows those who have seller bots to sell at a better price than those who aren't running a second account.</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by LobaLobaLoba on <span class=date_text>04-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:03 PM</span>

[smreas]

<P>I see where you are coming from Loba, but I think this is a good compromise.</P> <P>You do have to admit that any 2nd account seller-bot has lost a lot of his or her advantage.  And that anyone who can't keep their character online to sell has gained from this change.</P> <P>How will so many more sellers affect the economy is hard to predict exactly.  But keeping the broker fee should slow things down to allow more time for adjustments.  It allows those people who know the market better (those that are online and watch prices for good and ill) to have a bit more control that people who just dump their goods each night.</P> <P>Also, if someone sees an expensive item they can always note the seller's name (adds to friends) and contact the person to purchase it later.  This may add more interaction between people in the game, which is good, right?</P>

[LobaLobaLo]

<DIV>Heya smreason,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree -- if I had bought a second account for selling, I'd be a bit put out that this change occurs now.  I'm glad I'm not in that group of gamers.  I don't think this change was entirely unpredictable, though -- didn't offline selling exist in SWG?  Not sure, I didn't play it . . .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that I personally will sell almost exclusively from my offline vault.  I love the new ability but hate the fee.  In the past, I would leave my broker online at night but I was afk.  How is this really different than how the vault functions now?  At least then, someone had the option of bypassing the 20% commission.  If the majority of listing cease to have location included, you'll know exactly how widespread this is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm all for increasing player interaction.  But I also like systems that make sense.  In this case, the original 20% was for the convenience of buying through the broker -- in that case it made sense to penalize the buyer because the broker was providing the service.  Now that the seller is the one receiving the convenience, why continue to penalize the buyer?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the commission fee should be charged to the offline seller and not the buyer.  That would be the cost of the added benefit of selling offline, a 20% cut of your goods.  Problem solved, and system makes more sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by LobaLobaLoba on <span class=date_text>04-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:38 PM</span>

[FitzChevalerie]

<P>It's not a matter of avoiding the market being flooded with items...It's simply a money sink.</P> <P>In MMO's, the monney input is basicaly infinite, so there must be a way to take some monney out of the economy, or mudflation will occur.</P> <P>There are different money sinks in EQ2, broker fee and mending cost being two of them.</P>

[Miral]

I agree with charging the seller isntead of the buyer... just take the money out of the normal sale price when sale goes through

[majinvegeta52]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miral wrote:<BR>I agree with charging the seller isntead of the buyer... just take the money out of the normal sale price when sale goes through <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Im fine with that..  Hello 20% increase in my sell price. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just like in real life, ANY COSTS are passed onto the consumer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Olivexe]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> majinvegeta5297 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miral wrote:<BR>I agree with charging the seller isntead of the buyer... just take the money out of the normal sale price when sale goes through <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Im fine with that..  Hello 20% increase in my sell price. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just like in real life, ANY COSTS are passed onto the consumer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ding Ding. Yes, if the broker took 20% from me for selling the item then I would put it up for 12g instead of 10g. And regardless of the price floor as I would sell to the vendor before taking less from a player. That's the way the world turns.</P> <P>Does anyone think that gas taxes enacted in the last few years by several states or the cigarette taxes added on by many states and the feds in the last few years were not tacked onto the consumer sale price?</P>

[BloodSmo]

<DIV>How would it make sense in RL to have your "Store" open with you not their and not give the person running it (the broker) a cut?</DIV>

[Miral]

better yet have the broker charge an hourly fee to the seller while the vault is open for selling hehehe... or maybe a daily fee based on the cost of items for sale, good way to get rid of those morons that flood the market with outrageously priced goods.... yes do this, the hourly/daily cost based on the price of items for sale. UO has it for its player vendors and it works quite nicely to stabalize the economy.

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>LobaLobaLoba wrote:<div></div> <p>Alright, then a tax on the buyer will never prevent or stop the flood of the market with good from any particular seller  Check for yourself.   If you search under bags, you can still find the same individuals selling 20+ containers.  </p> <p>If you wanted to slow down the flooding of the market, you'd tax the seller, not the buyer.</p> <p>Also, the goods that are most affected by the unconditional 20% are the rares.  That sword that was once 10gp from the live seller or12gp from the broker is now uncondtionally 12gp.  This has nothing to do with stopping the flood of goods, either.</p> <p>You still haven't justified why offline selling should carry an unconditional +20% price tag.  If anything, it allows those who have seller bots to sell at a better price than those who aren't running a second account.</p> </blockquote>So you mean that instead of showing '1g to seller, 19s to Broker', the text should just say '1g 19s to seller'? And when you walk to the seller, you get the same price, 1g 19s because it is the seller that is taxed, not the buyer. Or do you mean that the seller should change all the prices every time he/she switches between online and offline selling? Or what is it exactly that you are suggesting? That offline selling shouldn't include broker fees but online selling should? Do you really walk to the seller if you need one 1s temper just to save the 19c? Or what is the pricelimit you wish to set for the fees? So tell us exactly why you think the broker fees should be removed. Because You want something a bit cheaper and immediately ?</span><div></div>

[warchild]

<P>Off line sellers or out of room sellers still lose to 24/7 online brokers. </P> <P> How? well here is what happen to me tonight.</P> <P>I wanted a Superb pelt and a Ruby for upgrade's. the 3 lowest superb pelt sellers @ 45g was out of room exping. The next one up was @ 50g from a 24/7 broker. So by going to the 24/7 broker and paying 50g i saved 3g. How? well the broker was going to charge me 8g and some silver ( something close to that ) for the 20%. which would have made the low 45g pelt = 53g</P> <P>As far as getting the ruby. Not!  the broker charge for a 1p+ idem was around 23g. paying 1p+ for an upgrade is hard for me, so im sure not throwing an extra 23g away. </P> <P> oh well still a great game</P> <P>Message Edited by warchild on <SPAN class=date_text>04-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:27 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by warchild on <span class=date_text>04-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:27 PM</span>

[LobaLobaLo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR><BR>So tell us exactly why you think the broker fees should be removed. Because You want something a bit cheaper and immediately ?<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I'm saying that broker fees are a good idea, but they need to be done right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For online sales, 20% convenience fee for buyer made sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For offline sales, a 20% convenience fee for the seller makes more sense than the existing set up.  Or some sort of 10% from seller, 10% from buyer.  Something to mitigate the fact that the buyer can't go direct to this person for normal price.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by LobaLobaLoba on <span class=date_text>04-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 PM</span>

[Big Da]

That being the case though, most of us would just raise our prices 10% to cover the costs. There is a penalty for offilne selling, you can only sell from the limited space in the vault and you have to check in evry 24 hours. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The increase in sales from vault sales should be allowed to settle out before any compensating moves are considered.</DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>LobaLobaLoba wrote:<div></div> <div>I'm saying that broker fees are a good idea, but they need to be done right.</div> <div> </div> <div>For online sales, 20% convenience fee for buyer made sense.</div> <div> </div> <div>For offline sales, a 20% convenience fee for the seller makes more sense than the existing set up.  Or some sort of 10% from seller, 10% from buyer.  Something to mitigate the fact that the buyer can't go direct to this person for normal price.</div> <div> </div><p>Message Edited by LobaLobaLoba on <span class="date_text">04-06-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:44 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>For expensive items, I send a tell or a mail asking for the merchant to inform me when I can buy that item for online price. And if I really need it, well I just have to pay for it then. After all if there was no offline selling, I wouldn't even see the item on the market. Customer does allways pay all the expenses. So however the broker fee is taken, customer pays. If the merchant wants 50 gold, he will price the product accordingly no matter how the fee is split.</span><div></div>

[Namil]

<DIV>I tried to make a point on this in a thread before this went live. I have to agree that it does not seem right that the buyer no longer has the option to run for the items themselves and save the 20%. For some of the things going for 50g or more that is quite a savings IMO. I dont happen to make a whole lot so saving money is important to me. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Offline selling is good but see my ideas here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=12331" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=12331</A></DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Namilla wrote:<div>I tried to make a point on this in a thread before this went live. I have to agree that it does not seem right that the buyer no longer has the option to run for the items themselves and save the 20%. For some of the things going for 50g or more that is quite a savings IMO. I dont happen to make a whole lot so saving money is important to me. </div> <div> </div> <div>Offline selling is good but see my ideas here.</div> <div> </div> <div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=12331" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=12331</a></div><hr></blockquote>I read the thread. You dont seem to understand that if an item sells for 1g at NPC, it will always cost at least 1g 19s when bought through broker. No matter who nominally pays for the expence. If the seller pays, he/she has to price it directly to 1g 19s to make at least the same amount as by selling to NPC and if the buyer pays, the cost is still 1g 19s for the buyer. You can turn this any way you like, but the buyer will always pay the expenses. You can gripe over the fact that you cannot go to the seller and buy it cheaper there. Well, there is always a price for easy marketing. And as said, the customer pays it. The only way in the game you can protest this is by sending a tell or mail to the seller saying that you will not buy anything from them ever again. But as long as people buy from offline sellers, there will be offline sellers. This fee is really not a bad thing as it discriminates offline sellers slightly. As it should be. And yes, you can protest it here, but as long as there are no other arguments than "I want my ebon NOW without broker fee", there is nothing that will be done to this. If you dont want to pay the fee, well don't buy the item.</span><div></div>

[Bur]

I agree that we should be paying 20% extra for offline traders;  the ability can't be free.  I don't agree with paying it for online traders no matter where you buy from.  I have a horrible computer (Getting a new one in a week, thank god) and it's fairly slow for me to zone, not to mention the memory leak that makes it progressively slower.  If the memory leak wasn't in the game i'd say grin and bear it but until that's fixed the 20% really shouldn't be in the game. <div></div>

[Namil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Namilla wrote:<BR> <DIV>I tried to make a point on this in a thread before this went live. I have to agree that it does not seem right that the buyer no longer has the option to run for the items themselves and save the 20%. For some of the things going for 50g or more that is quite a savings IMO. I dont happen to make a whole lot so saving money is important to me. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Offline selling is good but see my ideas here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=12331" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=12331</A></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I read the thread. You dont seem to understand that if an item sells for 1g at NPC, it will always cost at least 1g 19s when bought through broker. No matter who nominally pays for the expence. If the seller pays, he/she has to price it directly to 1g 19s to make at least the same amount as by selling to NPC and if the buyer pays, the cost is still 1g 19s for the buyer. You can turn this any way you like, but the buyer will always pay the expenses.<BR><BR>You can gripe over the fact that you cannot go to the seller and buy it cheaper there. Well, there is always a price for easy marketing. And as said, the customer pays it. The only way in the game you can protest this is by sending a tell or mail to the seller saying that you will not buy anything from them ever again. But as long as people buy from offline sellers, there will be offline sellers. This fee is really not a bad thing as it discriminates offline sellers slightly. As it should be.<BR><BR>And yes, you can protest it here, but as long as there are no other arguments than "I want my ebon NOW without broker fee", there is nothing that will be done to this. If you dont want to pay the fee, well don't buy the item.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Aparently you didnt read my thread well enough. I never said the seller should pay the 20% broker fee. Someone else here did. However, Crafter / Sellers should have an option to "Open a store" or have a "Merchant" that they pay for that allows them to sell the stuff  with no 20% fees involved. I was just trying to provide another idea that allows people to buy things with no broker fees just like they could before offline selling. </P> <P>I love how people in one post will say "well if you dont want to just dont do it". Then turn around in another and OMG dont nerf me or take away my horse or why cant i do this.  Drastic example, yes it is. But i am so sick of people that are so close minded to Other options or ideas that could be a benefit to everyone as a whole. As well as things that in other MMORPG's have proven to work well and consistently.</P> <P>You can share housing and have trustees, multiple merchants and then offline selling is for the owner only. Yes my wife could go buy an apartment or hand the stuff to me to sell. But we like sharing an apartment, we like being in the same place to sell things. Why is it ok for everyone to *$%#&! and gripe that there isnt enough solo content or small group content but when somone actually has a good idea it is always "well dont do it or just do this".</P> <P>Well how about we just tell all those solo small group players hey im sorry your out of luck go find a group. Arent these threads supposed to be for people to express ideas and other options. Me personally I would love to have my own store or merchant i can place items on that people can buy with no broker fees. Thats how stores work, i pay all my overhead and sell things to players in hopes to cover that and make a profit. it would need to be balance of course but so do many things still.</P><p>Message Edited by Namilla on <span class=date_text>04-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:25 AM</span>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>the brokers commission is the  only real moneysink that does its job continously to a great overall effect without being a constant pita for everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AND its the only thing saving the market from becoming dominated by *professional* resellers who think EQ2 is nothing more than a stock-market-online-game with a fantasy setting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other posters ( even a long time ago) proposed to charge the commission rather from the seller than from the buyer in the case of house vaults. That sounds fair but 2 identical items would then have different costs for the buyer if the seller stores one into the vault - -which could become quite confusing for both.</DIV>

[Namil]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV>the brokers commission is the  only real moneysink that does its job continously to a great overall effect without being a constant pita for everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AND its the only thing saving the market from becoming dominated by *professional* resellers who think EQ2 is nothing more than a stock-market-online-game with a fantasy setting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other posters ( even a long time ago) proposed to charge the commission rather from the seller than from the buyer in the case of house vaults. That sounds fair but 2 identical items would then have different costs for the buyer if the seller stores one into the vault - -which could become quite confusing for both.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>I am not saying remove the broker cause many people do not like to go and pick up the items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would not want the seller to pay the broker fees, just like if you wanted something delivered there is a delivery charge, that just makes sense. I feel that If anyone who chooses to go pick it up themselves no matter who or where it is being sold (Other cities excluded) They should be able to go there and not have broker fees to deal with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is a simple idea really, let me purchase a shop/store/merchant of some kind - and allow people that choose to travel and pick up the items themselves to do so without an extra broker fee. That way people that dont choose too can still pay the delivery fee.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Namilla on <span class=date_text>04-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:34 AM</span>

[Dolf Goodchee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Namilla wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE>.....................</BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>It is a simple idea really, let me purchase a shop/store/merchant of some kind - and allow people that choose to travel and pick up the items themselves to do so without an extra broker fee. That way people that dont choose too can still pay the delivery fee.<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That's already an option in the game, players selling from their room, items on their possession.  If you want to buy an item that a person only has in his vault, but you don't want to pay the 20% extra, then send him a /tell or email asking if he could pull the item from the vault and put it on his possession.  Most sellers, I would imagine, would be accomodating.  It's not that difficult.<BR>

[LobaLobaLo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV>the brokers commission is the  only real moneysink that does its job continously to a great overall effect without being a constant pita for everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AND its the only thing saving the market from becoming dominated by *professional* resellers who think EQ2 is nothing more than a stock-market-online-game with a fantasy setting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Has anyone ever stopped to think that moneysinks benefit the professional resellers as much as they do anyone else?  Money sinks help ensure that they can charge the same RL cash price for longer periods of time because the in game currency vanishes.<BR>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>LobaLobaLoba wrote:</P> <P>Has anyone ever stopped to think that moneysinks benefit the professional resellers as much as they do anyone else?  Money sinks help ensure that they can charge the same RL cash price for longer periods of time because the in game currency vanishes.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I have to admit that I never thougth about RL$ for plat seriously, I even complete fail to understand why this is actually a business and not just a sick joke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why someone is paying dollars for plat is a mystery to me as well as paying for sex, having ones bossom or schlong  surgically enlarged or driving cars that cost more than an average appartement or house.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But it looks like there's a big market for each of these - maybe all sharing exactly the same customer base.....</DIV>

[aeio]

<span><blockquote><hr>Namilla wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Tradeskill_Addict wrote: <div>the brokers commission is the  only real moneysink that does its job continously to a great overall effect without being a constant pita for everyone.</div> <div> </div> <div>AND its the only thing saving the market from becoming dominated by *professional* resellers who think EQ2 is nothing more than a stock-market-online-game with a fantasy setting.</div> <div> </div> <div>Other posters ( even a long time ago) proposed to charge the commission rather from the seller than from the buyer in the case of house vaults. That sounds fair but 2 identical items would then have different costs for the buyer if the seller stores one into the vault - -which could become quite confusing for both.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>I am not saying remove the broker cause many people do not like to go and pick up the items.</div> <div> </div> <div>I would not want the seller to pay the broker fees, just like if you wanted something delivered there is a delivery charge, that just makes sense. I feel that If anyone who chooses to go pick it up themselves no matter who or where it is being sold (Other cities excluded) They should be able to go there and not have broker fees to deal with.</div> <div> </div> <div>It is a simple idea really, let me purchase a shop/store/merchant of some kind - and allow people that choose to travel and pick up the items themselves to do so without an extra broker fee. That way people that dont choose too can still pay the delivery fee.</div> <p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Namilla on <span class="date_text">04-07-2005</span> <span class="time_text">08:34 AM</span></p><hr> The broker fee is still coming from the seller.  Just because it is tacked on to the price the buyer pays doesn't change that.  If they stayed online they could charge the exact price with the 20% included and get all the money.  The only way they can sell an item that has any competition is to list it 20% below what someone who is online is charging.  So they are eating the 20% when they set the price of the item. It is not being passed on to the buyer.  The fee is there because it pays for the ease and convenience of the seller being able to sell offline.  Making it so if you go there yourself eliminates it would not work as it does not take in account why the fee is there in the first place. The normal brokerage fee is a 20% penalty for those who choose not to travel to the store.  This 20% fee is a penalty to those who wish to sell offline.  You can't negate it by something that has nothing to do with its reason for existing in the first place. You should no more do what you suggest than you should allow indviduals say they want all their items sold on the broker for 0% commission regardless of if people can run to their house. Sure they could restructure it so it would be clear what is happening, but the net result would ultimately be the same and it would take a lot more work and programming for the same end result. </blockquote></span><div></div>

[pillb]

I disagree with the original poster. They should RAISE commisions on people who use offline selling, not lower it. <div></div>

[LobaLobaLo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pillbub wrote:<BR>I disagree with the original poster. <BR><BR>They should RAISE commisions on people who use offline selling, not lower it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm asking that the penalty be removed or lessened on buyers and possibly be imposed on sellers. 

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>Namilla wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr><span></span> <div></div></blockquote> <p> Aparently you didnt read my thread well enough. I never said the seller should pay the 20% broker fee. Someone else here did. However, Crafter / Sellers should have an option to "Open a store" or have a "Merchant" that they pay for that allows them to sell the stuff  with no 20% fees involved. I was just trying to provide another idea that allows people to buy things with no broker fees just like they could before offline selling. </p> <p>I love how people in one post will say "well if you dont want to just dont do it". Then turn around in another and OMG dont nerf me or take away my horse or why cant i do this.  Drastic example, yes it is. But i am so sick of people that are so close minded to Other options or ideas that could be a benefit to everyone as a whole. As well as things that in other MMORPG's have proven to work well and consistently.</p> <p>You can share housing and have trustees, multiple merchants and then offline selling is for the owner only. Yes my wife could go buy an apartment or hand the stuff to me to sell. But we like sharing an apartment, we like being in the same place to sell things. Why is it ok for everyone to *$%#&! and gripe that there isnt enough solo content or small group content but when somone actually has a good idea it is always "well dont do it or just do this".</p> <p>Well how about we just tell all those solo small group players hey im sorry your out of luck go find a group. Arent these threads supposed to be for people to express ideas and other options. Me personally I would love to have my own store or merchant i can place items on that people can buy with no broker fees. Thats how stores work, i pay all my overhead and sell things to players in hopes to cover that and make a profit. it would need to be balance of course but so do many things still. My most expensive stuff I keep with me and if I remember, I annouce it on merchant channel and/or ooc. </p><p>Message Edited by Namilla on <span class="date_text">04-07-2005</span> <span class="time_text">08:25 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span>Again the price merchant pays to get his/hers store online will be charged from the buyer. And as it is, there already are two different options for the thing you suggest, get another account of hire someone with two accounts to do this for you. However the latter is time consuming and in my opinion not worth my efforts. The items I mostly sell, are worth under 1g and I sell sometimes 20 to 30 of those overnight (yes, I am usually online then as I don't fully trust the offline system) and have sold several while I have been adventuring/crafting. I might consider hiring someone to sell the rare crafts I do however. I even know several people with two accounts. Thanks fo making me see that <span>:smileywink:</span>, have to ask them as soon as I get online again. <div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>LobaLobaLoba wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> pillbub wrote:I disagree with the original poster. They should RAISE commisions on people who use offline selling, not lower it. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>I'm asking that the penalty be removed or lessened on buyers and possibly be imposed on sellers. <hr></blockquote>You still haven't understood have you? If I want 1 gold for my product, at the moment, I will put 1 gold as its price. If however I have to pay 20% commission for the sale, I will price it 1g 25s in order to get the 1 gold for the sale. And the customer still pays. And if the 'penalty' is lowered for offline sellers, then the online sellers are the ones to suffer. I am sorry but I cannot write this any better, if you still don't undestand, it is not my fault.</span><div></div>

[krogareq]

<P>LobaLobaLoba,</P> <P>There is no such thing as a buyer tax or a seller tax.  That is simply nomenclature.</P> <P>There is either a transaction tax or there is not.</P> <P>The only use the nomenclature provides is to identify one party with the recordkeeping aspect of the tax.  You can tax one, you can tax both; it doesn't matter because in the end the transaction was taxed.</P> <P>As to who is effected more by the transaction tax, that depends on the elasticity of demand for the item.</P> <P>This is taught in Economic classrooms around the world.  If we're not doing a good job of explaining this, I'd sugget signing up for one.  I found Economics the one class I learned the most about the real world.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Troodon]

The problem with the current set up is that the de facto 20% markup for offline selling still creates inequity between those with second accounts/able to leave an account logged in all the time and those not so fortunate. In a competitive market if I want to sell offline Im going to have to accept  a 20% less margin than someone selling online to be able to have a chance to make a sale, I have to price items so that from a customers perspective they're not loosing out by buying from me. In the low level tiers Im working on that 20% is rather significant. I certainly cant see SoE jumping to make any change, after all they're very cautious of the impact these continous changes to how the market opperates is having an effect on it, but I do hope they at least consider how they can make things fairer. Offline selling was a big step in the right direction, but it'll take at least one more to create at least a degree of parity.   <div></div>

[Damanex]

Players should not be forced to buy a 2nd 24/7 seller account in order to compete with others because of a badly designed game mechanic Geez both FFXI & WoW have their auction house -- you don't see people using multiple accounts there to sell -- why should this game be any different? I'm glad that SOE finally introduced the ability to sell while offline -- but geez, don't stop there, this still needs some improvement Maybe if enough people cry NERF they'll finally change it so that seller accounts will become obsolete and that everyone will have fair game when it comes to selling on the market <div></div>

[Big Da]

<P>A lot of people who want to have a merchant have bought a second account for this express purpose. It may not be in Sony’s interest to then make these accounts useless as they would then be cancelled. At the moment having a merchant means you have a second account. So this already exists as an option it is just expensive and inconvenient. An offline merchant with no fees would remove a good way of taking money out of the game. Although I can see why some would want it, I would be against the idea. Some things should be inconvenient, offline sellers have make less profit than their online competitors but it is the price you pay for the convenience. They have to reduce prices by 20% to be competitive but I see this as a bargain for having my goods on sale all day every day.</P> <P>There is also nothing stopping anyone from starting a merchant and charging, say a 5% commission for selling other peoples goods!</P>