Patch #7 : Please respectfully leave Wardens alone (as well as Fury vs. Warden discussion)

[Metroel]

<DIV>Good day to you, I would like to address the "changes" that Wardens are suppose to undergo for the live patch#7. Mr. Moorguard stated that "everyone knows wardens heals are overpowered", and i would like to know who thinks this, people that "dont" play them?</DIV> <DIV>Compared to the class specific heals, Druids single target HoTs do not hold up a candle to a react or a ward. All through my career as a warden, i've relied on our instant direct heals to push a tank's health up, as where a regen did nothing to hold up. In discussion with the templars, and mystics in my guild, they as a healer rarely use there direct heals during XP/quest sessions, as there class specific heals would work enough for the benefit of keeping grp members alive.  </DIV> <DIV>I might be jumping the gun when i'm saying this, but i have a good feeling that Devs and others are looking at our Nature's Caress based direct heals and calling nerf. Why i ask, are you going to tweak us negatively on the only thing that is effective for us to be on "EQUAL" level with all other healers?  </DIV> <DIV>         As for the "Fury vs. Warden" issue, might you please listen to this. While we are both druids, we work in different ways still. Wardens rely on there nature's caress power to keep up their grp members, while Furies have really nice debuffs that lower the dmg potential of the mobs they are facing. Wardens "DONT" have any debuffs in this game............i repeat we DONT have any debuffs, so all we solely rely on is our regen and direct heals. Yes, we have a snare that has an attached agi reduction component, but nothing that messes with the damage potential to the mob. It is used as what it is described, to slow the mob's movement speed. We rely on these direct heals to keep up on par with other healers, please do not break us like this. </DIV> <DIV>         How about implying the templar/inquis balance onto us? Templars get the stronger Crucial intercession grp Reactive, While inquisitors get the stronger single-target reactive. But, Templars, have Focused benefaction. And inquisitors as an offense healer to start, has Zealotry.</DIV> <DIV>        In looking at it this way, why not give the Wardens the stronger Grp HoT (i.e. chlorostorm), and give the Furies the stronger single target regen ( wild bloodflow). And Wardens still have Hierophantic Genesis. While Furies as the "offense" healers once again, have Porcupine. </DIV> <DIV>    Enough of my ramblings, but please think  about this, we are sooo overpowered, but yet, We are the rarest  priest subclass in the game???? I dont understand. Fix furies buffs and dmg potential, give them higher nukes and lower recast, up there DoTs, they are offensive priest, they deserve to give out more DPS then us by far, but at the same time, they have a strong single target regen that will keep them on par with others as far as healing.</DIV> <DIV>   And leave wardens alone, there is nothing wrong with us, one of the rarest priest classes to be played and we have a bounty on our head from others who see us "not" broken, and cry foul. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Calib Metroelph</DIV> <DIV> 50 Warden</DIV> <DIV> Ascendance</DIV> <DIV> Neriak Server</DIV> <DIV>       </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>     </DIV>

[Metroel]

correct thread, boy my head hurts =/ lol

[BloodSmo]

You say nothig is wrong with wardens cuz you play one, of course you wouldnt want your class nerfed, i didnt want inquis stifle nerferd, but it happened.........wardens are way overpowered, every priest subclass should get to the same place a number of different ways but still get their, with a warden you get their way to fast theirfor=overpowered.  A reason why their is a test server, to test things, this update whenever they patch it to test will eb tweaked b4 it ever goes to the live servers.

[Rougejenn]

<P>Sorry I have to say...You are very overpowered...When A fury or warden heals for more then a cleric or mystic who r suppose to be the highest healers yes....you need an adjustment.  I heal worse being a mystic then pallies...that;s sad and needs to be fixed!!</P> <P> </P>

[Metroel]

<DIV>How are we overpowered? Just because we heal 200 more hitpoints or so on our direct heals?? Gimme a break, slows and debuffs make up for more then that. And so says druids arent suppose to heal as good as clerics? This is not EQ1 sir. We are "suppose" to be equal healers, but do it in a distinct different way. Reacts vs. Wards vs. HoT, and as of now this is not the case.</DIV>

[Iseabeil]

<DIV>wardens direct heal needs to be fixed in relation to the other healer classes, that said, if HoT cant do the job of other class specifics, it needs to be adjusted as well so it can. hopefully, the devs are balancing them too.</DIV>

[Darkstar]

<P><FONT size=3>Let's clear up a few misconceptions:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>1) Wardens are by no means "way overpowered".  There is ONE Warden T5 heal spell which some people feel is too powerful because it heals a couple hundred more hp than the other classes top heals.  On the Warden side, this spell also generates over twice the aggro of the other classes spells and is therefor of limited use until the latter stage of fights and also does a good deal of its additional healing as a HOT component.  Its DIRECT heal component is not out of balance - just the efficiency is out of balance if you factor in the HoT component going to completion.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>2) The real problem is that Furies need healing improvements and broken Wards need to be fixed.  Yelling for a warden nerf will not accomplish either of these and will just make wardens (who have been vocal proponents of these fixes) less likely to cheerlead for you.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>3) Wardens are among the, if not THE, most dependent class on healing - lets not forget.  We dont do melee DPS, we dont have big debuffs, we dont stun or stifle, we wear light armor, we are not the best buffers or nukers and we have only 2 spells that damage CR mobs neither of which is T4 or T5. We can cure and heal and thats our role and thats about it in the high end game. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>4) Remember that Wardens are NOT the first choice healer in this game as it is.  Templars are always preferred over us.  I hope SoE keeps that in mind when evaluating our healing abilities - the reason for this preference is largely do to the aggro problem with HoTs as well as the fact that in light armor we are much more vulnerable than clerics.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>Please think carefully before crying out to nerf another class - especially one that has always supported fixes for the healers.</FONT></P> <P>Message Edited by DarkstarII on <SPAN class=date_text>04-03-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:29 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by DarkstarII on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:31 PM</span>

[Leven]

I'm afraid this may be a losing battle for us Wardens.  Being a rare priest sub-class makes the Warden an easy target strictly from the numbers standpoint.  I mean, can you ever see them nerfing Templars, far and away the most popular and strongest healer?  Of course not.  And how is the Warden more deserving of nerfs than the Templar??? The perception is that while we're solid healers, we're not quite on par with Templars and Inquisitors.  And our healing is really the only thing we have to offer groups.  The only thing.  We have no debuffs to speak of, very little 'utility', horrible DPS, and okay buffs.  The shortcomings of HoTs (shared with Furies), and thus the need for stronger instants, has been discussed at length on the forums.  This 'overpowered heal' thing is something I'd never even heard of until Moorgard's statement.  I'm astounded, and so are friends I regularly group with. I'm expecting that SOE will simply whack down Warden instants, after minimal testing.  This is opposed to what they should do, which is to tweak Furies to have better offensive group buffs (highly desirable for smart groups, i.e. faster XP) and better instants (but less than Wardens', for balance).   Nerfing is safer than buffing, aside from small token buffs, and it takes far less time and resources.  They have many other pressing issues that affect a far greater numbers of players. One major thing that attracted me to this game was the concept of a 'nature-based healer' on par with the cleric.  Please be careful with that nerf-bat, SOE, and prove my pessimism wrong... Leven Human 35th Warden/50th Provisioner Lucan DLere<div></div>

[Homesli]

In all honesty I have no clue if one healer class is more powerful than the other but I do believe that the Devs don't just take someones word or some complaints and say "oh yeah let's nerf em", I am sure they have multiple spreadsheets of data they use and have certain numbers they want to run in their mind and when something is going above or below that, they adjust it. Looks like they feel the wardens need an adjustment.

[Darkstar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leveneq wrote:<BR>I'm afraid this may be a losing battle for us Wardens.  Being a rare priest sub-class makes the Warden an easy target strictly from the numbers standpoint.  I mean, can you ever see them nerfing Templars, far and away the most popular and strongest healer?  Of course not.  And how is the Warden more deserving of nerfs than the Templar???<BR><BR>The perception is that while we're solid healers, we're not quite on par with Templars and Inquisitors.  And our healing is really the only thing we have to offer groups.  The only thing.  We have no debuffs to speak of, very little 'utility', horrible DPS, and okay buffs.  The shortcomings of HoTs (shared with Furies), and thus the need for stronger instants, has been discussed at length on the forums.  This 'overpowered heal' thing is something I'd never even heard of until Moorgard's statement.  I'm astounded, and so are friends I regularly group with.<BR><BR>I'm expecting that SOE will simply whack down Warden instants, after minimal testing.  This is opposed to what they should do, which is to tweak Furies to have better offensive group buffs (highly desirable for smart groups, i.e. faster XP) and better instants (but less than Wardens', for balance).   Nerfing is safer than buffing, aside from small token buffs, and it takes far less time and resources.  They have many other pressing issues that affect a far greater numbers of players.<BR><BR>One major thing that attracted me to this game was the concept of a 'nature-based healer' on par with the cleric.  Please be careful with that nerf-bat, SOE, and prove my pessimism wrong...<BR><BR>Leven<BR>Human 35th Warden/50th Provisioner<BR>Lucan DLere <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I just don't get how we get targetted for the nerf bat - here's the breakdown on my server as of tonight (Guk)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Level 50:</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Templars: 25</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Inquisitors: 19</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Mystics: 17</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Furies: 14</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Defilers: 12</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Wardens: 7</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Great - take the most unwanted healer class and make it less desirable ... only SoE....</FONT></DIV>

[Styk]

I really dont see why Druids are getting the nerf bat when at lvl 47 Templars get a buff that allows a player a chance to proc a 500 point group heal on EVER SUCCESSFUL ATTACK... Templars in my guild buff our group with it and then sits back and afks since we heal ourselfs during fights..... Lol and Moorguard says Warden heals are overpowered.... <div></div>

[Mat]

<HR> I really dont see why Druids are getting the nerf bat when at lvl 47 Templars get a buff that allows a player a chance to proc a 500 point group heal on EVER SUCCESSFUL ATTACK... <BR><BR>Templars in my guild buff our group with it and then sits back and afks since we heal ourselfs during fights.....<BR><BR>Lol and Moorguard says Warden heals are overpowered....<BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are talking about Glory of Combat, the correct explanation would be <STRONG>allows a target player a <FONT color=#ff0033>5% chance</FONT> to proc a 500 point group heal (when it is a ADPIII or higher) when successfully attacks.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>And your guild templar who AFK during battle must be a very lame lazy templar.  Please do not give false information about other classes while the topic is about<STRONG> the Wardens</STRONG>, to avoid unneccessary bashing. I as a templar, would be very pleased to have a warden in the grp as they helped alot <STRONG>Warding </STRONG>to help making our <STRONG>Reactive Heals </STRONG>die slower. We aren't rivals, we work together to benefit the grp so please stop comparing to us.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Matek on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:25 PM</span>

[Eelyen]

<P>Warden's are not overpowered in my experience.  I am not sure at level 50, but I've grouped since level 28 or so with a Warden that is a few levels behind me.  Currently now I am level 42 and the Warden is 38.  We also have a Templar that is our group just as much.  And the templar is 42.  </P> <P>Most of the time, we have the Templar to heal and the warden is the backup healer and dps.  Both of them combined do an outstanding job and work very well together.  The primary healer by far is still the Templar. </P> <P>Once in a while, the templar isn't on, so the warden takes over the primary healing role.  And I can say that the Templar can hold his mana pool up longer then the Warden can.  The Warden does a fine job healing, but her pool won't last as long as the Templar in a solo situation.  Plus, if things get dicing, the Warden's healing aggro is what is overpowered.  I can't tell you how many times I've had 2 or 3 groups of mobs on us, and if 1 gets on the Warden...they all end up on the warden.  NEVER happens to the Templar.  </P> <P>Overall, from my perspective as the tank, I think that Wardens and Templars are balanced fine.  Templars definitely have the advantage when it comes to healing.  But Wardens can do the job if the templar isn't around, just not as well.  And I know my healers because I can't keep the group moving if the healer is lom. </P> <P>In the end, I prefer both of them in my group because they make an awesome team.  And our group kicks [Removed for Content].</P> <p>Message Edited by Eelyen on <span class=date_text>04-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:30 AM</span>

[Miral]

lets just fix the shamans and power up the clerics... I play a shaman a bit but mostly I just want my healers to be able to heal my other chars. if wardens get a huge heal +HoT, then give other classes similar things. Templars a big heal + defensive proc heal,  inquisitors a big heal + offensive heal proc, mystic big heal + medium ward, defiler a big heal + offensive proc ward, fury big heal + smaller HoT and elemental ward. And then fix whatever aggro and/or ward bugs exist in the same update.

[MrFlob]

<P>Hopefully devs remember to balance us perfectly and remember that also gear needs balancing... </P> <P>Clerics are in great advance as they can wear heavy armor ..not only does heavy armor have high ac but also always nice wis boost compared to good medium armor with wis.... </P> <P>i know that nerfing the gear would be impossible but could you add somekind of small xtra hate to clerics as they have more ac than druids and shams..or other option would be let us wear what armor we like....</P>

[Miral]

just make heavy armor have stam and str instead of wis and int everywhere... should be heavy = stam and str, medium = wis and stam, light = wis and agility, v. light = int and agility

[Mat]

<HR> <P>Clerics are in great advance as they can wear heavy armor ..not only does heavy armor have high ac but also always nice wis boost compared to good medium armor with wis.... </P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No, you are wrong. The only H.Armor with wis bonus are very limited compared to other types of armor. I have only seen Nightblood BP, Magma Forged Cuirass, Sol Forged BP so far. Not much choice, and really hard to find.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sunfire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Homeslice wrote:<BR>In all honesty I have no clue if one healer class is more powerful than the other but I do believe that the Devs don't just take someones word or some complaints and say "oh yeah let's nerf em", I am sure they have multiple spreadsheets of data they use and have certain numbers they want to run in their mind and when something is going above or below that, they adjust it. Looks like they feel the wardens need an adjustment.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think the concern many wardens have is that (as mentioned earlier) we are the rarest of the healers and unfortunately are almost unrepresented at the high levels on the test server.  </P> <P>The only way them for them to test warden balance is to create an artificial T5 warden character and try to run data using that.  While this approach isnt all bad it doesnt really represent the whole picture of the class by any means as that artificial character wont be faced with raid situations - most grind healing situations etc.  We are worried about a reactionary nerf to something which wasnt even perceived as a problem until Rensu went tirading around showing every way a Warden is better than a fury but never mentioning the dozens of things Furies are better than us at ... or that with all their problems they still outnumber us 2:1 and, on average, level faster.</P> <P>We're all hoping SoE takes the time to look at the big picture - Aggro of heals, dependency of the class on pure healing, etc when making any adjustments.  One of the things they need to look at is a raid situation against a cold resistant mob which has an AoE - a fairly common raid occurence.  In this situation wardens have no nukes or DoTs higher than lvl 32 to use for DPS and most of our healing options and curing options generate considerably more aggro than the other classes and we have considerably less mitigation.  So if our only useful role of healing and curing is to be diminished the ability of our class to fill other roles should be looked at for balance.</P> <P> </P>

[Iseabeil]

<DIV>hmm.. i dont really understand all this talk of how rare wardens are.. might be different on other servers, on AB  all healers are in a big cluster with about as many of each played, except of course templars that are overrepresented, and the poor defilers that you can almost count on one hand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i see and play with wardens often, never seemed like a 'rare' class to me, im pretty sure there are enough available to give input to the devs.</DIV>

[majinvegeta52]

<P>Nerf em, dont nerf em  not much we can really do about it..  BUT all 3 healers shoud be about equal.. they arent pain and simple.</P> <P> </P> <P>All I know is as a defiler .. </P> <P>My wards are craptastic at best...  and my heals are very very underpowered compared to the other healers..  I did 2 groups yesterday, im lvl 39.  one the other healer was a 34 inq..  FIVE lvls lower then me, both using their best heals at adept 1, and he was alittle  less then 100 points  lower then I am on direct heals...</P> <P>Dont even try to compare his reverse proc vs my wards..  Wards stink plain and simple...</P> <P> </P> <P>2nd was a warden.. ( dont remember the lvl  and I didnt ask if he was using adept 3s or not)  but he was lower lvl then I was..  Direct heals  he was right up there with me... 40-50 points off my big heal.  yea the regens werent great , but they still are better IMHO then a ward.. Fighting anything worthwile the ward pops way too fast. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[BloodSmo]

<DIV>Maybe its just me but i would assume that the sub classes of the cleric class should have the biggest direct heal.....</DIV>

[Styk]

OK Matek,   first the Spell PROCS 3-4 times per fight....  ( just for me , now counting all the other dmg dealers in group im with all the time) When 95% of the mobs in the game atm are blue to you how often do you think i get hit? 2nd before you call someone lazy maybe you should um know the person first... The person you call "lazy" solo healed my group for the Heart of Fear quest back when we were all 47. ( no chanter no shaman in group and we did the whole quest from start to finsh with one healer ) ... Before you open your mouth learn that the "5%" number is a false figure ( meaning its random ) ... but hey you should be high enough lvl to know that.... So um yeah ..... Oh Matek here is a Fat S.T.F.U and have a good day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Mat]

<HR> OK Matek,   first the Spell PROCS 3-4 times per fight....  ( just for me , now counting all the other dmg dealers in group im with all the time) When 95% of the mobs in the game atm are blue to you how often do you think i get hit? 2nd before you call someone lazy maybe you should um know the person first... The person you call "lazy" solo healed my group for the Heart of Fear quest back when we were all 47. ( no chanter no shaman in group and we did the whole quest from start to finsh with one healer ) ...<BR><BR>Before you open your mouth learn that the "5%" number is a false figure ( meaning its random ) ... but hey you should be high enough lvl to know that....<BR><BR>So um yeah .....<BR><BR>Oh Matek here is a Fat S.T.F.U and have a good day <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0><BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm... a <STRONG>berserker</STRONG> is telling a <STRONG>lv50 templar </STRONG>about how a templar spell works. Interesting.</DIV> <DIV>First I apologize for "insulting" your templar friend. I hope you understand that no healer in the game should AFK during a fight especialy the one you were mentioning (it is deadly). So technically it wasn't my fault to make me think he is lazy because of your post. :p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secondly, I know more about how the spell works than a berserker (vice versa). The proc occured so many times as this is caused by the same spell catsed on multiple grp members which sums up the proc execution rate. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lastly, I am free to express my opinion here if I am not insulting the person directly (did I put out his name?) so there is no reason to ask a me to S.T.F.U, worse, its imature. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since our post seems to be out topic, mind to stop posting more "personal arguement" here and let the thread remains as what it is for? Thank you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[CloakV]

The funny thing is, through all this talk of Wardens need nerfing because their heals are too good. Why is it that most pick up groups only want wardens as a second healer?   Most players still have the conception that wardens / furrys are what you have to make do with if you cant get a proper healer like a templar. Ho hum. <div></div>

[Eneg]

I would have preferred SOE fixing other priest classes, rather than nerfing one. However, I'm going to wait until I see the nerf before I get too panicky. I'm assuming they will just drop the NC HoT component from the VR line, which is OK since it does not stack with normal NC anyway. We'll see. --Deus, 49 Ward(nerf)den<p>Message Edited by Enegar on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:33 AM</span>

[BWShellShocked]

<P>I'll wait until I see what they do to us, but I'm not expecting to like it.</P> <P>The numbers on Blackburrow show that Wardens are the least played of the healer classes as well.</P> <P>From today, using the player search feature in EQ2PLAYERS, of healer type classes, Blackburrow currently has:</P> <P>Wardens @ 50 - <FONT color=#ff0000>6</FONT><BR>Wardens between 30-50 - <FONT color=#ff0000>119</FONT><BR>Wardens between 40-50 - <FONT color=#ff0000>39</FONT></P> <P>Furies @ 50 - 7<BR>Furies between 30-50 - 135<BR>Furies between 40-40 - 46<BR><BR>Templars @ 50 - 17<BR>Templars between 30-50 - 376<BR>Templars between 40-50 - 129</P> <P>Mystics @ 50 - 14<BR>Mystics between 30-50 - 169<BR>Mystics between 40-50 -   66</P> <P>I didn't bother with Pally, Defiler or Inquisitor because we know those numbers would be much higher than Furies and Wardens.</P> <P>My question tho, is simply this.  If Wardens are so awe inspiring over powered, why so few?  Traditionally, the uber class/profession is the most populated, not the least....</P> <P>Now, lets look at our entire server population, from March 31st (just a few days ago) taken from this thread:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=103&message.id=3242" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=103&message.id=3242</A></P> <DIV>In population order :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1<FONT color=#6699ff>     Guardian..........</FONT>971</DIV> <DIV>2     <FONT color=#ffff00>Templar</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>...........</FONT>953</DIV> <DIV>3 <FONT color=#6699ff>    Paladin.............</FONT>837</DIV> <DIV>4<FONT color=#ff6600><FONT color=#ffffff>     </FONT><FONT color=#ff6600>Wizard.............</FONT></FONT>751</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff><FONT color=#ffffff>5</FONT>     Berserker.........</FONT>700</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600><FONT color=#ffffff>6</FONT> </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>    Ranger.............</FONT>621</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff><FONT color=#ffffff>7</FONT>     Shadow Knight.</FONT>547</DIV> <DIV>8<FONT color=#ffff00>     Mystic...............</FONT>533</DIV> <DIV>9  <FONT color=#6699ff>   Monk.................</FONT>519</DIV> <DIV>10 <FONT color=#ffff00>  Inquisitor...........</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>511</FONT><BR>11<FONT color=#ffff00>   Fury..................</FONT>503</DIV> <DIV>12<FONT color=#ff6600>   Conjuror............</FONT>446</DIV> <DIV>13 <FONT color=#ffff00>  Warden.............</FONT>418</DIV> <DIV>14<FONT color=#66ff00>   Assassin...........</FONT>411</DIV> <DIV>15<FONT color=#ff6600>   Necromancer....</FONT>399</DIV> <DIV>16<FONT color=#66ff00>   Swashbuckler...</FONT>361</DIV> <DIV>17<FONT color=#ffff00>   Defiler................</FONT>321</DIV> <DIV>18<FONT color=#ff6600>   Warlock.............</FONT>296</DIV> <DIV>19<FONT color=#ff6600>   Illusionist...........</FONT>273</DIV> <DIV>20<FONT color=#66ff00>   Dirge.................</FONT>260</DIV> <DIV>21<FONT color=#66ff00>   Troubador.........</FONT>260</DIV> <DIV>22<FONT color=#ff6600><FONT color=#6699ff>   Bruiser..............</FONT></FONT>259</DIV> <DIV>23<FONT color=#ff6600>   Coercer.............</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>193</FONT></DIV> <DIV>24<FONT color=#66ff00>   Brigand</FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>..............</FONT>141</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And again we will find that Warden is the lowest number, of all healing classes, excepting Defiler (Evil Shaman), and that's to be expected as they are "Evil Only".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, I still have the question that if we are so overpowered, that we need to be nerfed, and if "everyone knows" this, as Moorgard suggests, why do the numbers not reflect this, on a server that is and has been "FULL" pretty much since game launch?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Look at tradeskills.  Who are the top ones there?  Alchemists and Provisioners, and why is that?  Because they are perceived to be the "most powerful" of the tradeskilling bunch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm only a lvl 29 Warden (49 Provisioner), so I have no idea how powerful I'll be in say 10+ levels, but I can tell you at lvl 29, I'm far, far, far from being powerful.  I'm always the last one invited to a group, in favor of a Templar and/or Inquisitor.  I'm basically the backup healer, and am usually very very bored in a group with a Cleric.  I get to heal when they have to go afk, but I'm not allowed to melee because I'm such an aggro magnet.  Yep, powerful, need to be nerfed.  That's Me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1 More level, and I'll wait and see if this nerf is enough to retire this toon.  He sucks now, so I'm thinking yes, he'll be my food/drink provider and money mule.  Maybe I'll make a Chanter, they seem to be in need according to the numbers.. or a Templar, at least I'll be able to wear the cool armor and actually be asked to come to groups, instead of having to <STRIKE><FONT color=#ff0000>ask</FONT></STRIKE> beg to join...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:  Changed a word, it was the wrong one to use.</DIV><p>Message Edited by BWShellShocked on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:46 PM</span>

[Sunfire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iseabeil wrote:<BR> <DIV>hmm.. i dont really understand all this talk of how rare wardens are.. might be different on other servers, on AB  all healers are in a big cluster with about as many of each played, except of course templars that are overrepresented, and the poor defilers that you can almost count on one hand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i see and play with wardens often, never seemed like a 'rare' class to me, im pretty sure there are enough available to give input to the devs.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There are <STRONG>3</STRONG> lvl 50 wardens on AB - 2 of which are unguilded (no comment) - compared to <STRONG>15</STRONG> templars and <STRONG>6</STRONG> "poor defilers" ... and of course <STRONG>5</STRONG> "underpowered" Furies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The numbers are from EQ2players.com</DIV>

[drews]

<blockquote><hr>Rougejenna1 wrote: <P>Sorry I have to say...You are very overpowered...When A fury or warden heals for more then a cleric or mystic who r suppose to be the highest healers yes....you need an adjustment.  I heal worse being a mystic then pallies...that;s sad and needs to be fixed!!</P> <P> </P><hr></blockquote>Wow you are so wrong. First um who said clerics and mystics are the best healers, did you just make this up. Secondly our directs are better than yours because are class heals are worse. You completely miss the point of this thread. Yes our direct moves the bar alot because it needs to. If you want to balance spell for spell fine with me. We'll just nerf your wards. First we need to stop them from stacking. Second we should make it so they can heal no more in a given time then our hots. So we'll cap those at +126 or so every 4 seconds. Then things will be fair. Wait you don't want us to do this because it would break your class. Congratulations now you see why we need larger direct heals than you do. Stop whining to get warden's nerfed, try playing one first. We only appear to be overpowered to people who don't know what they are talking about, like say you for example.And BTW why is this thread in the tester feedback forum. Shouldn't it be in the warden, druid or general priest forums?Lorical

[BWShellShocked]

<DIV>As I said above, I can't say what I will be healing like in 10 or so more levels (only 29 now).  As I also said, I'm not going to cry (too loudly) until I actually see it in action.  Unfortunately, my test toon is on the zerker path, not a warden, so no way for me to test it first hand before it goes live.  In hind sight, yeah, I should have made a warden on the test server.. doh!  But, in my defense, I made the zerker because my alt is a fighter and I wanted to get a feel for what he will be growing into, when I retire my warden.  I don't like the warden on live, he's boring to play, and has no real value to a group, in my experience... yours may be different, but remember, I'm talking about my experience here, not yours :p  So, I made a fighter on test when I made my alt on live, so I could test the toons in the same level range and get a real time look at what the changes will mean on live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways, to answer the question, why is this in tester feedback, and not the warden forum.. simple, the changes are on test, not on live, and this is where this thread belongs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  As all testers know, not all the changes on test make it to live, and only through all of our testing and feedback, can the devs get a decent idea of what should be implemented versus tweaked an implemented later, or not implemented at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To those posting here, that don't have a test toon, I suggest you make one, and play it.  That way, you'll have a good idea of what these discussions are really about.  Oh, and if I might suggest.. don't be an idiot like me.  Make a test toon that is the same as your main live toon (or the toon that you plan on playing on live), so that you can test something you already know about, and compare what is, to what may be, and are not hindered by learning a new class while trying to test things that don't exist on live.. it doesn't work otherwise, trust me on that <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Valg]

<DIV>lol i'm surprised the devs are focused more on nerfing warden's when fixing shaman's should be at the top.....and [Removed for Content] is it with all you people saying wards are better than regens? have you ever even played a shaman? obviously not.</DIV>

[Ramtaku]

<P>This is nothing short of stupid.</P> <P>Who cares if you can heal for 200 more points on a direct - big deal, I don't care if you can heal more on a direct then I can as an Inquisitor.</P> <P>They need to stop nerfing. Nerfing to me = making the classes more similar = boring.</P> <P>I don't want to be able to do everything that every other healing class can do to an equal extent. I want to have some cool things that only my sub-class can do and I want you to have some cool things that only your sub-class can do.</P> <P>You get a better direct that offsets your lack of debuffs, the additional agro and your light armor - cool, I don't have a problem with that.</P> <P>Templars get better heals, better buffs and are more effective in the end-game - cool, rock on Templars.</P> <P>Make the sub-classes more interesting and more destinctive, stop trying to make us all equal in every aspect. </P> <P>Hey, why not get rid of the sub-classes and create a generic "healer" class that has identical abilities, that would be fun.:smileytongue:</P>

[SmokeDawg4]

<IMG height=1 alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=1 border=0><BR> <DIV>I dont mean to flame here but I read the post and just have to say.... Clerics should be better healers then any other priest class for this reason.  The meaning of cleric in fantasy game directly means HEALER.  Druid is not, druid is SERVANT OF THE WOODS... Tell me what the heck does servant of the woods have to do with being a uber powerful healer?  IMO Druids should have the best damage shields like they did in EQ1... Shamans the debuffers/buffer... and Clerics the Healer...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I serioulsy dont understand why you people cant understand this about druids and shamans. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, im an Inquisitor on the Niriak server.. Zane... and i dont have one problem with being out direct healed by a druid at all... if anyone has grouped with a druid and a cleric they will be able to tell you that clerics do in fact heal better for long period exping...  We seem to be able to keep the tank alive and maintain our mana supply at a decent rate... That has been my exp.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But remember</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Druid =  SERVANT OF THE WOODS <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_man-wink.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV>

[SniperKitty]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>SmokeDawg420 wrote:<div></div><img height="1" alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width="1" border="0"> <div></div> <div>I dont mean to flame here but I read the post and just have to say.... Clerics should be better healers then any other priest class for this reason.  The meaning of cleric in fantasy game directly means HEALER.  Druid is not, druid is SERVANT OF THE WOODS... Tell me what the heck does servant of the woods have to do with being a uber powerful healer?  IMO Druids should have the best damage shields like they did in EQ1... Shamans the debuffers/buffer... and Clerics the Healer...</div> <div> </div> <div>I serioulsy dont understand why you people cant understand this about druids and shamans. </div> <div> </div> <div>However, im an Inquisitor on the Niriak server.. Zane... and i dont have one problem with being out direct healed by a druid at all... if anyone has grouped with a druid and a cleric they will be able to tell you that clerics do in fact heal better for long period exping...  We seem to be able to keep the tank alive and maintain our mana supply at a decent rate... That has been my exp.....</div> <div> </div> <div>But remember</div> <div> </div> <div>Druid =  SERVANT OF THE WOODS <img height="16" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_man-wink.gif" width="16" border="0"></div> <div></div><hr></blockquote>You have no frakkin' clue what the hell you're talking about you ignorant noob.  Druid, Shaman, and Cleric are all part of the Priest Archetype, which means each one of them is meant to be a capable healer for ALL CONTENT.  Lvl 1 to 50 + Raids.  You also have no frakkin' clue what the end game is like.  Guess who the end game healer is... NOT CLERICS.  The end game Main Tank Group consists of the Main Tank, a Guardian, a Warden, a Troubador, a Wizard, and maybe a Monk.  Usually it's a Bruiser though, for their Shrug Off offtank ability that adds like 1500 mitigation AC to the Main Tank. <font color="#ffff00" size="7">Druids = Healers.</font> Learn to live with that or go the frak back to EQ1 you slackjawed excuse for a noob. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by SniperKitty on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:28 PM</span>

[Anlari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SniperKitty wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmokeDawg420 wrote:<BR> <IMG height=1 alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=1 border=0><BR> <DIV>I dont mean to flame here but I read the post and just have to say.... Clerics should be better healers then any other priest class for this reason.  The meaning of cleric in fantasy game directly means HEALER.  Druid is not, druid is SERVANT OF THE WOODS... Tell me what the heck does servant of the woods have to do with being a uber powerful healer?  IMO Druids should have the best damage shields like they did in EQ1... Shamans the debuffers/buffer... and Clerics the Healer...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I serioulsy dont understand why you people cant understand this about druids and shamans. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, im an Inquisitor on the Niriak server.. Zane... and i dont have one problem with being out direct healed by a druid at all... if anyone has grouped with a druid and a cleric they will be able to tell you that clerics do in fact heal better for long period exping...  We seem to be able to keep the tank alive and maintain our mana supply at a decent rate... That has been my exp.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But remember</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Druid =  SERVANT OF THE WOODS <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_man-wink.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You have no frakkin' clue what the hell you're talking about you ignorant noob.  Druid, Shaman, and Cleric are all part of the Priest Archetype, which means each one of them is meant to be a capable healer for ALL CONTENT.  Lvl 1 to 50 + Raids.  You also have no frakkin' clue what the end game is like.  Guess who the end game healer is... NOT CLERICS.  The end game Main Tank Group consists of the Main Tank, a Guardian, a Warden, a Troubador, a Wizard, and maybe a Monk.  Usually it's a Bruiser though, for their Shrug Off offtank ability that adds like 1500 mitigation AC to the Main Tank.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>Druids = Healers.</FONT><BR>Learn to live with that or go the frak back to EQ1 you slackjawed excuse for a noob.<BR><BR></SPAN> <P>Message Edited by SniperKitty on <SPAN class=date_text>04-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:28 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wow, with an attitude like yours, I'm sure people will be running to your side just to be near your charismatic charm.  All sarcasim aside, never was it stated that al classes in a subclass would be as effective for all content.  Each is effective in thir own special ways, which is not all content.

[SniperKitty]

<span><blockquote><hr>Anlarius wrote:Wow, with an attitude like yours, I'm sure people will be running to your side just to be near your charismatic charm.  All sarcasim aside, never was it stated that al classes in a subclass would be as effective for all content.  Each is effective in thir own special ways, which is not all content. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Hey ignoramous, YOU'RE WRONG.  Go back and read many of Moorgards posts concerning the ARCHETYPE SYSTEM.  Any class or sub-class should be able to fill in for the MAIN ARCHETYPAL ROLE OF THAT ARCHETYPE (Priest = Healer) in any situation, for all content.  That is a fact stated by Moorgard.  So go argue with him you twit. ALL PRIESTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HEALERS FOR ALL CONTENT.  Deal with it you [Removed for Content].   Seriously, how frakkin' hard is it for all you [Removed for Content] slacktard ignorant noobs to understand the very, very simple archetype system?  It's so frakkin' simple my little brother, who's nine years old, understands it... yet all you freaking morons can't seem to figure it out at all.  It's astounding.  In essence... <font size="7" color="#ffff00">FIGHTERS TANK.</font><font size="7" color="#ffff00"> </font><font size="7" color="#ffff00">PRIESTS HEAL.</font><font size="7" color="#ffff00"> </font><font size="7" color="#ffff00">SCOUTS STAB.</font><font size="7" color="#ffff00"> </font><font size="7" color="#ffff00">MAGES NUKE.</font> That, in the most basic of terms, is the archetype system.  Live it, love it, learn it, or get the frak out of the game.  I like the archetype system and am dang tired of morons trying to unbalance and ruin it.</span><div></div>

[Iseabeil]

<DIV>all priest should be able to fill the spot as main healer, the should not all have the same healing power tho. 99% will claim that they should, but why should priests be different than other archetypes? an assassain will do a lot more damage than a troubadour, and damage is pretty much for scouts what healing is for priests. on the other hand, the troubadour will have some very nifty skills that can be just as usefull if not more compaired to just doin damage. the same thing applies on healers. not all healers can heal as well, but some have other very usefull skills.</DIV> <DIV>any scout can fill the slot of DPS, and healer can fill the slot of main healer, they just dun all do it same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>would wardens be oki with losing Verdurous Journey in exchange for better healing? </DIV>

[Iseabeil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SunfireII wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iseabeil wrote:<BR> <DIV>hmm.. i dont really understand all this talk of how rare wardens are.. might be different on other servers, on AB  all healers are in a big cluster with about as many of each played, except of course templars that are overrepresented, and the poor defilers that you can almost count on one hand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i see and play with wardens often, never seemed like a 'rare' class to me, im pretty sure there are enough available to give input to the devs.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There are <STRONG>3</STRONG> lvl 50 wardens on AB - 2 of which are unguilded (no comment) - compared to <STRONG>15</STRONG> templars and <STRONG>6</STRONG> "poor defilers" ... and of course <STRONG>5</STRONG> "underpowered" Furies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The numbers are from EQ2players.com</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>from earlier post on AB forum of class breakdown:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>1 <FONT color=#6699ff>    Paladin.............</FONT>1095</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT color=#ffffff>2     <FONT color=#ffff00>Templar</FONT></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>...........</FONT></FONT>986</DIV> <DIV>3<FONT color=#6699ff>     Guardian..........</FONT>895</DIV> <DIV>4<FONT color=#ff6600><FONT color=#ffffff>     </FONT><FONT color=#ff6600>Wizard.............</FONT></FONT>831</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600><FONT color=#ffffff>5</FONT> <FONT color=#66ff00>    Ranger.............</FONT></FONT>825<BR>6<FONT color=#6699ff>     Berserker.........</FONT>740</DIV> <DIV>7<FONT color=#6699ff>     Shadow Knight.</FONT>646<BR>8<FONT color=#6699ff>     Monk.................</FONT>627</DIV> <DIV>9<FONT color=#ffff00>     Fury..................</FONT>618</DIV> <DIV>10<FONT color=#ffff00>   Mystic...............</FONT>546</DIV> <DIV>11 <FONT color=#ffff00>  Inquisitor...........</FONT>541</DIV> <DIV>12 <FONT color=#ffff00>  Warden.............</FONT>501</DIV> <DIV>13<FONT color=#66ff00>   Assassin...........</FONT>459</DIV> <DIV>14<FONT color=#66ff00>   Swashbuckler...</FONT>436</DIV> <DIV>15<FONT color=#ff6600>   Necromancer....</FONT>415</DIV> <DIV>16<FONT color=#ff6600>   Conjuror............</FONT>406</DIV> <DIV>17<FONT color=#ff6600>   Warlock.............</FONT>344</DIV> <DIV>18<FONT color=#ffff00>   Defiler................</FONT>335</DIV> <DIV>19<FONT color=#ff6600>   Illusionist...........</FONT>308</DIV> <DIV>20<FONT color=#66ff00>   Troubador.........</FONT>303</DIV> <DIV>21<FONT color=#66ff00>   Dirge.................</FONT>259</DIV> <DIV>22<FONT color=#ff6600><FONT color=#6699ff>   Bruiser..............</FONT></FONT>229</DIV> <DIV>23<FONT color=#ff6600>   Coercer.............</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>202</FONT></DIV> <DIV>24<FONT color=#66ff00>   Brigand</FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>..............</FONT>181<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>there is a lot more than lvl 50 players out there.</DIV></DIV>

[DearthofWeal]

Just gonna jump on here and say, I agree that each sub-class should have some defining skill that makes them special. What I would kill to see is for the poor shamans to get some love.  The lvl 42 defiler in my guild is horrifically underpowered even with ALL (not kidding) adept3 skills.  Every single time a new skill is earned he adept 3's it.  Somehow, regardless of this, the wards don't do all that much and, well, you know the story of the shaman instant heals. The guy is an awesome defiler, and truthfully, one of the very few I would group with as a solo healer or non-enchanter group, but god help us if a mage pulls aggro.  And, maybe it's just me and I'm not informed correctly, but is it really true that Defilers get 5 (FIVE) Enduring Breath spells?  And am I misinformed that each one lasts 15 minutes? <div></div>

[1000Words]

<DIV>oookk people let's not turn this into a flame fest :smileyhappy: while mg said that every priest under the archetype could heal for everything, and could be a main healer..like a druid could be the mh or a mystic or whatever you want to say without a cleric, that isn't possible..and in the starterbook thing that comes with eq2 it describes the Warden class as</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Wardens are protectors of the woodlands and defenders of the wildlife. They tap into the power of nature to mend wounds and purge ailments that afflict their allies.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now under Templar it says</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Templars are faithful servants of the divine who use their benevolent powers to aid their fellow adventurers. They mend wounds and purge illness, relieving the suffering of the afflicted.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so by those descriptions it sounds like templars will always be better healers no matter what and as someone stated before in this thread druids are protectors of the wildlife and they can heal yes but templars are better healers...clerics..whatever..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for Druid it says</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Druids are priests of nature, drawing their power from the divine energy of life and the earth. They can heal and purge ailments from their party, and bless their companions with enhanced physical ability.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>for Cleric it says</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Clerics use divine magic to tend to the physical and spiritual needs of their allies. Clerics not only heal wounds and banish disease, but also magically augment the health of their comrades.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>they do sound similar, yes, but the difference is druids are the priests of nature and clerics are the priests of the people ... when I first started eq2 I was a cleric, and I'm glad I picked druid even though I'm not really a mh..oh well I think it's funner. :smileyhappy: I'm a woodelf anyways. </DIV>

[Ramtaku]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Hey ignoramous, YOU'RE WRONG.  Go back and read many of Moorgards posts concerning the ARCHETYPE SYSTEM.  Any class or sub-class should be able to fill in for the MAIN ARCHETYPAL ROLE OF THAT ARCHETYPE (Priest = Healer) in any situation, for all content.  That is a fact stated by Moorgard.  So go argue with him you twit.<BR><BR>ALL PRIESTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HEALERS FOR ALL CONTENT.  Deal with it you [Removed for Content].   <BR><BR>Seriously, how frakkin' hard is it for all you [Removed for Content] slacktard ignorant noobs to understand the very, very simple archetype system?  It's so frakkin' simple my little brother, who's nine years old, understands it... yet all you freaking morons can't seem to figure it out at all.  It's astounding.  In essence...<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>FIGHTERS TANK.</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>PRIESTS HEAL.</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>SCOUTS STAB.</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>MAGES NUKE.</FONT><BR><BR>That, in the most basic of terms, is the archetype system.  Live it, love it, learn it, or get the frak out of the game.  I like the archetype system and am dang tired of morons trying to unbalance and ruin it.<BR> <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P>Seriously, the tone of your post is awesome, I loved the "<FONT color=#ffff00>Seriously, how frakkin' hard is it for all you [Removed for Content] slacktard ignorant noobs</FONT>"  - frakkin' word Art </P> <P> </P> <P>Anyway, your post is stupid :smileywink:. I was a frakkin' cleric in EQ1 and it frakkin suced. Heal, med, Heal, med - boring. My character in EQ2 can really tear down a mob with debuffs and dots. Tearing down a mob equals less power used on healing. You want me to accept some archetype because <EM>you</EM> think "healers" should "heal"</P> <P>I'm gonna keep slamming the mobs with everything in my inventory just for the fun of it. I'll back off if we're fighting group X 2+, but for normal combat - I'm blasting them.</P>

[FaythfulAcolyte]

<DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>Hi everyone!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>Sadly, I wrote a very long, very detailed post in reply to this thread that got erased when I clicked "Preview Post" to view my comments. I am a lvl 28 Warden on Antonia Bayle, and would like to share my experiences and comments:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2> - What was Moorgard's comment in regard to Wardens? Where is it located so I could read it directly, and respond to him or the devs directly? If someone could please provide a link to it, I would greatly appreciate it. I feel this would do him, and his comments, justice and be fair and informative to everyone.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2> - Second, as a "healer", I have seen others in-group, specifically Templars, who have done a far more efficient job of "pure healing" than I have (dealing primarily with keeping the party's health at an optimum level). I mention Templars since most of my firsthand experience has been with them, not that I am picking on them. I respect what they do and how they do it, but prefer to be a warden for the distinctive nature of the class. Being an "aggro-sponge" keeps me in check so I can't just be delivering high heals during combat all the time. I have to use attacks, buffs, de-buffs, DoT spells, and everything in my arsenal to prevent damage as well as to allow the best circumstances for "safe healing" (not drawing aggro). My protection of the group is in adding to damage, buffs/de-buffs, <EM>AND</EM> healing. Healing over time does provide a cushion for individual and group heals with some similar benefits to reactive heals, but urgent, more powerful heals are dangerous to a Warden and can bring death to her/him and /or the group. The good use of this aggro is to pull enemies away to give another party member a breather, or to try and pull the enemy away from the party in a hopeless situation by wildly healing. My first love in the game is to work well in my role with a group, not just as healer, but in someone who looks out for the welfare of others, sometimes at their own expense <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>- The disadvantages of the Warden class bring its healing abilities into check: being an "aggro-magnet"; only being able to wear light armor, and so on. These disadvantages, however, provide the variety and flavor the game needs. Even if we might be better healers in some respect (again I would like to find out exactly how and where), we suffer consequences for it and are forced to be creative to work around those. That is part of the fun and challenge of the game. <EM>Please do not base sub-class quality and your enjoyment of the game on statistics alone, as I often see people do in the forums</EM>. By taking out all perceived "imbalances", you take out the distinctives that make the game interesting.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>- For those whose sub-class abilities apparently need work on a basic level from the outcry in the forums, I share your chant, "Fix now, nerf later". Abilities should be functioning correctly before accurate feedback can be received. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>I honestly do not see a need to "nerf" the Warden class at this point, since I do not see an "imbalance" in the Warden's healing capability. Even if there were (which again I have not experienced in my own gameplay, but would like to read direct statements from Moorgard, the devs, etc.), it is balanced by lesser armor, different healing methods, and high aggro, especially in comparison to the Templars, my brothers and sisters in service. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>I love the game, and love playing and grouping with others. I love the Warden's strengths and weaknesses, and their uniqueness, especially how it contributes to the context of role-playing environments. That's why I picked it as my sub-class.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>I attack, buff, de-buff, DoT, nuke, <EM>AND</EM> I heal. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>I am not a "healer" - I am a <STRONG><U>Warden</U></STRONG>  :smileyhappy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>Arquinia Siqilisse - Koada'Dal</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>28th Spring Warden in the Service of Tunare</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>Antonia Bayle Server</FONT></DIV>

[Anlari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SniperKitty wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anlarius wrote:<BR>Wow, with an attitude like yours, I'm sure people will be running to your side just to be near your charismatic charm.  All sarcasim aside, never was it stated that al classes in a subclass would be as effective for all content.  Each is effective in thir own special ways, which is not all content. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hey ignoramous, YOU'RE WRONG.  Go back and read many of Moorgards posts concerning the ARCHETYPE SYSTEM.  Any class or sub-class should be able to fill in for the MAIN ARCHETYPAL ROLE OF THAT ARCHETYPE (Priest = Healer) in any situation, for all content.  That is a fact stated by Moorgard.  So go argue with him you twit.<BR><BR>ALL PRIESTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HEALERS FOR ALL CONTENT.  Deal with it you [Removed for Content].   <BR><BR>Seriously, how frakkin' hard is it for all you [Removed for Content] slacktard ignorant noobs to understand the very, very simple archetype system?  It's so frakkin' simple my little brother, who's nine years old, understands it... yet all you freaking morons can't seem to figure it out at all.  It's astounding.  In essence...<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>FIGHTERS TANK.</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>PRIESTS HEAL.</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>SCOUTS STAB.</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>MAGES NUKE.</FONT><BR><BR>That, in the most basic of terms, is the archetype system.  Live it, love it, learn it, or get the frak out of the game.  I like the archetype system and am dang tired of morons trying to unbalance and ruin it.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm glad you like the archtype system.  I also have read Moor's post on the topic that all classes within an archtype will be able to perform their main job.  That is pretty much where it ends.  He has stated time and again that each class will excell over the others in certain situations.  It should be that way.  If every class is the same except for graphics then why have them at all?  </P> <P>Currently, all the healer classes can perform the role of main healer, though not all very well).  A templar and warden seems to be the choice for raids, while people like the shamans for monk tanks and such.  In basic grouping, any healer can keep the tank alive thus performing their role.</P> <P>Just because a certain class is more desired in raiding doesn't mean the others are broken.  Some will be better at raid type encounters then others.  That is just the way it goes.  I would gladly choose a summoner or enchanter over a sorcerer in a raid simple because they can maintain their damage longer and thus do more in the long run.  Is this a flaw of the sorcerer?  No, sorcerers are nasty suckers in normal groups and thats their niche.</P> <P>Everyone gets so caught up in class envy they forget to look at what they can't do rather then dwelling on what they can do.</P>

[Eneg]

<blockquote><hr>FaythfulAcolyte wrote:<DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>Hi everyone!</font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>Sadly, I wrote a very long, very detailed post in reply to this thread that got erased when I clicked "Preview Post" to view my comments. I am a lvl 28 Warden on Antonia Bayle, and would like to share my experiences and comments:</font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2> - What was Moorgard's comment in regard to Wardens? Where is it located so I could read it directly, and respond to him or the devs directly? If someone could please provide a link to it, I would greatly appreciate it. I feel this would do him, and his comments, justice and be fair and informative to everyone.</font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2> - Second, as a "healer", I have seen others in-group, specifically Templars, who have done a far more efficient job of "pure healing" than I have (dealing primarily with keeping the party's health at an optimum level). I mention Templars since most of my firsthand experience has been with them, not that I am picking on them. I respect what they do and how they do it, but prefer to be a warden for the distinctive nature of the class. Being an "aggro-sponge" keeps me in check so I can't just be delivering high heals during combat all the time. I have to use attacks, buffs, de-buffs, DoT spells, and everything in my arsenal to prevent damage as well as to allow the best circumstances for "safe healing" (not drawing aggro). My protection of the group is in adding to damage, buffs/de-buffs, <EM>AND</em> healing. Healing over time does provide a cushion for individual and group heals with some similar benefits to reactive heals, but urgent, more powerful heals are dangerous to a Warden and can bring death to her/him and /or the group. The good use of this aggro is to pull enemies away to give another party member a breather, or to try and pull the enemy away from the party in a hopeless situation by wildly healing. My first love in the game is to work well in my role with a group, not just as healer, but in someone who looks out for the welfare of others, sometimes at their own expense <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>- The disadvantages of the Warden class bring its healing abilities into check: being an "aggro-magnet"; only being able to wear light armor, and so on. These disadvantages, however, provide the variety and flavor the game needs. Even if we might be better healers in some respect (again I would like to find out exactly how and where), we suffer consequences for it and are forced to be creative to work around those. That is part of the fun and challenge of the game. <EM>Please do not base sub-class quality and your enjoyment of the game on statistics alone, as I often see people do in the forums</em>. By taking out all perceived "imbalances", you take out the distinctives that make the game interesting.</font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>- For those whose sub-class abilities apparently need work on a basic level from the outcry in the forums, I share your chant, "Fix now, nerf later". Abilities should be functioning correctly before accurate feedback can be received. </font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>I honestly do not see a need to "nerf" the Warden class at this point, since I do not see an "imbalance" in the Warden's healing capability. Even if there were (which again I have not experienced in my own gameplay, but would like to read direct statements from Moorgard, the devs, etc.), it is balanced by lesser armor, different healing methods, and high aggro, especially in comparison to the Templars, my brothers and sisters in service. </font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>I love the game, and love playing and grouping with others. I love the Warden's strengths and weaknesses, and their uniqueness, especially how it contributes to the context of role-playing environments. That's why I picked it as my sub-class.</font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>I attack, buff, de-buff, DoT, nuke, <EM>AND</em> I heal. </font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>I am not a "healer" - I am a <STRONG><U>Warden</u></strong> :smileyhappy:</font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2></font> </div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>Arquinia Siqilisse - Koada'Dal</font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>28th Spring Warden in the Service of Tunare</font></div> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00 size=2>Antonia Bayle Server</font></div> <DIV></div><hr></blockquote>First of all, you can find Moorguard's statement by using dev tracker. It was an off-the-cuff statement basically saying that some of the Warden's heals were overpowered, and that "we all knew that already".I can only assume that this all came about from the series of posts directly comparing Verdant Rapture to other class's T5 direct heals. While the initial heals were all all equal (955ish) but Warden's get an added NC tacked to the end of it. That's the background of the nerfage.Now mind you, Wardens dont come into their own until the mid to late 40's, so at level 28 you dont really have a glimpse of the full picture. As far as mana efficiency in endgame, we are unmatched. As far as raw healing, Templars and Wardens are a toss-up, but both definitely lead the pack.So, I certainly wont deny that wardens heal better than other classes, because we do. It's a matter of raw numbers. While it's nice to be on top, I can acknowledge and empathize with classes who have noted issues.. furies, inquisitors, and shamans.MY pet issue with all of this is that rather than fixing other classes (true balancing IMHO) to bring other classes in-line with Wardens and Templars, SOE chooses to simply take the path of less resistance and nerf one class. Obviously throttling one class back is easier than tweaking four classes.The reason that SOE will give, if given the chance, is that they wish to preserve the balance between Wardens and Mobs. That's the only PR reason I can imagine them giving us. If all healers were as good as Warden/Templar's the game would be waaay too easy. Which is in of itself complete and utter BS. We may be slightly better than other classes, but it's not like we breeze through PvE.But whatever.. SOE has made up their mind, and we might as well just brace for the change. No one is going to leave us alone.

[SniperKitty]

"Just because a certain class is more desired in raiding doesn't mean the others are broken." Bullcrap.  Every class and sub-class is meant to have a place in all content.  From 1 to 50 and even raid content.  SOE is trying to avoid the lamearse bullcrap from EQ1 where it was Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter... the Holy Trinity.  You really are a [Removed for Content].  It's so freaking funny how many of you slackjawed drooling idiots can't understand the simple nature of the Archetype system.  Guess I should have known better than to let a stupid person drag me down to their level and beat me over the head with experience at being stupid. Feel free to cling to your misbegotten desire to have one sub-class excell at raiding.  It ain't gonna happen. <div></div>

[Anlari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SniperKitty wrote:<BR>"Just because a certain class is more desired in raiding doesn't mean the others are broken."<BR><BR>Bullcrap.  Every class and sub-class is meant to have a place in all content.  From 1 to 50 and even raid content.  SOE is trying to avoid the lamearse bullcrap from EQ1 where it was Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter... the Holy Trinity.  You really are a [Removed for Content].  It's so freaking funny how many of you slackjawed drooling idiots can't understand the simple nature of the Archetype system.  Guess I should have known better than to let a stupid person drag me down to their level and beat me over the head with experience at being stupid.<BR><BR>Feel free to cling to your misbegotten desire to have one sub-class excell at raiding.  It ain't gonna happen.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yet again I respond to your personal charm and classy manner of speaking, nowhere was it promised that all classes would be desired equaly for all content.  Your reading far too much in to things.  There will always be classes that raid better, classes that xp better, and classes that solo better.  The only way to acheive the balance your refering to is to have only one class.</P> <P>While your absorbing that, try and work on your people skills.  Calling someone a [Removed for Content] for stating their opinion more intelligently then you state yours realy doesn't help your cause any.</P>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BloodSmoke wrote:<BR> <DIV>Maybe its just me but i would assume that the sub classes of the cleric class should have the biggest direct heal.....</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That was true in EQ1. EQ1 clerics didn't get regens, so they had to be kings of the direct heal. In EQ2 all priest classes are supposed to be about equal in direct heals. Clerics get reactive heals, druids HoTs, and shamans wards as secondary healing.</P> <P>The problem is the secondary healing isn't balanced. HoTs and wards are much less effective than reactive heals. If you give clerics the best direct heals and the best secondary heals, then druids and shamans just suck.</P> <P>In fact, they do suck compared to clerics. Just do class counts on your server. On most servers clerics outnumber druids and shamans combined. Player always gravitate towards the best class, and right now clerics are the best healers.</P> <P>It wasn't supposed to be that way.</P> <P>Edit: Live update #7 is supposed to "rebalance priests". If the only rebalancing that is done is to nerf Warden heals, SOE will have really screwed up. I don't think that's the case, however.</P> <P>SOE will make other changes to priests, like distributing agro better. I hope they also fix wards and HoTs so they are better balanced relative to reactive heals. If they do all that, then I won't care if my Warden's direct heals are a little less efficient, because the class will be improved over all. </P> <P>I just think Moorgard made a mistake by singling out Wardens as his "for instance". He really should know better than to do that. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Chogra on <span class=date_text>04-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:24 AM</span>

[SniperKitty]

"In fact, they do suck compared to clerics. Just do class counts on your server. On most servers clerics outnumber druids and shamans combined. Player always gravitate towards the best class, and right now clerics are the best healers." You're wrong.  People gravitated towards clerics (Temps/Inqs) because of EQ1 and any other MMOG out there.  All those Templar/Inquisitor idiots think they're the best healer, just because 'clerics' have always been the best healer in games.  They're wrong.  You're wrong.  The end game healer, is the Warden.  Reactives are good for one thing, multiple mob encounters where all the mobs are hitting the same person. <div></div>

[Keraphin]

<DIV>it could have just been the players involved but i notice wardens dont seem to use very much power for the amount they heal.. while shamans seem to gulp up power and barely have done anything at all.. definately seems to be some problems there, but otherwise things seem ok</DIV>

[Encantador]

<P>For those that want to read it the Moorgard quote is in:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=38949&query.id=0#M38949" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=38949&query.id=0#M38949</A></P> <P>Please note that these changes were deferred to be in LU7.</P> <P>Essentially what he has said, in this and other related posts, is:</P> <P>1) Healing aggro will be fixed. So watch out shaman and clerics.</P> <P>2) Taunt (or other ways of adjusting aggro) will be reviewed to make sure that the extra healing aggro does not radically change the game.</P> <P>3) HoT and Wards will be evaulated against reactive heals. No promise, only that if classes cannot heal comparatively then adjustment will be made.</P> <P>4) Warden direct heals (in his opinion) are overpowered. [With the implication that HoT is underpowered.]</P> <P>5) Priest DPS will be adjusted to be more in line with where the developers think it should be.</P> <P> </P> <P>I know people do not like being told one of their spell lines is going to be reduced in power, but all the angst here and in several other threads seems way out of line. It looks like Wardens will get several boosts and a small nerf or two.</P> <P> </P>

[Sinadi]

They really ought to have started balancing priests by fixing the *fact* the clerics' and I guess shamans' class specialty heals only generate aggro to the caster when they are cast. I don't think that Sony really understands how utterly massive the ripple effect on proper aggro assignment for healing is going to be. I just hope that after the update I will continue to be able to solo heal for groups in Solusek's Eye and for the bastion of flames encounter. <div></div>

[Dragonreal]

<P>The reason wardens are afraid is because he specifically said we're gettin' heals nerfed and he did NOT specifically say hots (or wards for that matter) are going to be rebalanced to work properly. There's nothing to say wardens and furies and shammys will get all the healing love they need; they could do anything with the heals.. they could increase the direct heals of the other classes.. they could give furies the same type of instas wardens have and add a ward/reactive component to shammy and clr heals.. there's no reason for us to think that they'll do things properly or that they'll do it to a great enough extent. What if they increase the regens but don't increase them enough to deal with mob damage like they should yet they've decreased the big instas we rely on? what are the wardens going to do then? Be back-up hlrs or quit either the class or the game; I know I won't be a back-up hlr to anyone.</P> <DIV>There's nothing wrong with expecting the worst and doing all you know to do to prevent that from coming to pass; at the very least you won't be very disappointed if it happens anyway and at the best you'll be wonderfully surprised if something good happens.</DIV>

[Glyceryn]

<P>You have inspired me to creat a warden on test so I can assist with gathering data. Its stupid to nerf something when there are only 7-10 lvl 50 wardens (or any class for that matter). Instead of griping about the change has anyone offered to find out just what kind of data these changes were based off of and if they need more data offer to help the gather it. Based on what Ive read so far we dont have much much information on what is being nerfed only that is comming and that it involves a heal. Patience and keep playing as much as you can and maybe changing there mind would be easier if they could gather more information.</P> <P> </P> <P>Exohia 21 Ranger - Faydark</P> <P>Demascus 18 Crusader - Faydark</P> <P>Augustous 15 Summoner - Faydark</P> <P>Gnomystery 10 Sorcere - Faydark</P> <P>Krisais 10 Cleric - Faydark</P> <P>Ive been busy, but like to see all kinds of flavors before deciding what i want.</P>

[Geohi]

Just like to clear something up.  The original poster said that Warden's HoT's are less powerful than wards? OH BOY ARE YOU WRONG. I've explained this many times as a 50 defiler, but here it goes again.  How much does your HoT heal for total?  Lets say 1.6k, about the same as my ward, okay?  Now nothing in the whole game is going to modifiy that number. its ALWAYS going to heal for 1.6k. Just over time.   Okay, lets shift over to my ward. It wards 1.6k right, so the exact same? WRONG.  Wards don't take into account armor mitigation.  So lets say the mob is going to hit for 2,000 damage RAW.  In your case, the tanks armor mitigates about 60% of that, hitting for about 800, and healing for whatever amount. In MY case, it does 2,000 damage, breaks the ward, and still does 400 damage. But Geo, what about raids? Well, I cant even USE my wards in raids for fear that the anti-mitigation will cause the mob to hit for MORE than it is supposed to.  How, you say?  Well lets say it hits for 5,000 RAW.  A big number, i know, but thats reality.  Normally, the tank mitigates most of taht so it'll hit for say 2,200. Not toooo bad.  Well if my ward is on  its going to hit for 5,000 - 1,600 = 3,400. MORE than it would have without the ward. I'm not saying Wardens need to be taken down or even Defilers up, I'd just like to correct your little statement there. -Geo <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

This community shoots itself in the foot always. Why would anyone call for a class to get NERFED. Instead to nerfing bring the other classes up to par with Wardens and Furys. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE and the community needs to stop nerfing a class and instead bring it's counter parts to a similar level of effectiveness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please everyone needs to stop asking for other classes to be nerfed it is not right and I would not want for all of my healers I group with not to be able to do a good job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If mystics and other healer types aren't as powerful then bring them up to same level as wardens and furys.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moorgard, I hope SOE is making an effort to keep players happy and not discourage more people.</DIV>

[HyTeKOblivi]

<DIV>As a 28 brigand, (I know not the best tank but it happens lol)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when I duo group, it is either with a 24 defiler or a 27 warden. Most of the time I would rather have the defiler. He has some decent wards, and he doesn't get aggroed on, ever. With the 27 warden, which I group with daily, (since she is my wife and all lol) never fails, if we are in a tougher fight, she gets aggro. 70% of the time she ends up being the tank after 1 heal or 1 HoT. I have 3 different hate increase abilities, and I normally hit the mob with all 3 of these before she even starts to heal. After her first heal, or her first HoT she is now the tank, regardless of what I do, even with my hate increasing 800+ damage ruse :smileymad:. Wardens have some decent heals, but they can't use them because they end up being the tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bloodskull valley. yeah you remember your first time there. Orcs upon orcs upon orcs, then even more orcs come. We had 4 tanks, 2 brigands, 3 other fighter classes, and 2 defilers and 1 warden. of course the orcs were all grey, but what......25-30+ orcs if you don't kill the first or second wave fast enough? (which we didn't, we were goofing off because they were all grey) anyways, the defilers had their wards up on the 2 main tanks that were splitting up the orcs. NONE OF THEM GOT AGGRO. 1 of the tanks which was a bit lower started to get some damage, the warden casted 1 instaheal.....and EVERY SINGLE ORC FROM BOTH TANKS AGGROED TO THE WARDEN. I have screenshots from both of our computers, because the warden was standing by herself a little distance from the main group. It is a sight to behold to see 30+ orcs surround a warden because of 1 heal :smileyvery-happy: And this happened just this past weekend.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anyways, just my input on a very boring day at work :smileysad:</DIV>

[Eneg]

<span><blockquote><hr>encanta wrote:<div></div> <p>For those that want to read it the Moorgard quote is in:</p> <p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=38949&query.id=0#M38949" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=38949&query.id=0#M38949</a></p> <p>Please note that these changes were deferred to be in LU7.</p> <p>Essentially what he has said, in this and other related posts, is:</p> <p>1) Healing aggro will be fixed. So watch out shaman and clerics.</p> <p>2) Taunt (or other ways of adjusting aggro) will be reviewed to make sure that the extra healing aggro does not radically change the game.</p> <p>3) HoT and Wards will be evaulated against reactive heals. No promise, only that if classes cannot heal comparatively then adjustment will be made.</p> <p>4) Warden direct heals (in his opinion) are overpowered. [With the implication that HoT is underpowered.]</p> <p>5) Priest DPS will be adjusted to be more in line with where the developers think it should be.</p> <p>I know people do not like being told one of their spell lines is going to be reduced in power, but all the angst here and in several other threads seems way out of line. It looks like Wardens will get several boosts and a small nerf or two.</p> <p>  </p><hr></blockquote>1) So basically other classes will be getting nerfed? Am I supposed to take pleasure in that? I dont get aggro anyway. 2) Tanks taunting better is a great thing.. makes me wish I was a tank. I'm a Warden though. One who doesn't get aggro. 3) Yeah.. no promises. I'm going to remain cynical on this one. 4) Ugh. 5) Yay! More DPS! I cant think of a more useless enhancement than giving more damage to priests. Give us taunts too while you are at it. So.. I dont mean to be overly angstful or out of line, but exactly how do Wardens benefit from this patch?</span><div></div>

[Dragonreal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HyTeKOblivion wrote:<BR> <DIV>As a 28 brigand, (I know not the best tank but it happens lol)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when I duo group, it is either with a 24 defiler or a 27 warden. Most of the time I would rather have the defiler. He has some decent wards, and he doesn't get aggroed on, ever. With the 27 warden, which I group with daily, (since she is my wife and all lol) never fails, if we are in a tougher fight, she gets aggro. 70% of the time she ends up being the tank after 1 heal or 1 HoT. I have 3 different hate increase abilities, and I normally hit the mob with all 3 of these before she even starts to heal. After her first heal, or her first HoT she is now the tank, regardless of what I do, even with my hate increasing 800+ damage ruse :smileymad:. Wardens have some decent heals, but they can't use them because they end up being the tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bloodskull valley. yeah you remember your first time there. Orcs upon orcs upon orcs, then even more orcs come. We had 4 tanks, 2 brigands, 3 other fighter classes, and 2 defilers and 1 warden. of course the orcs were all grey, but what......25-30+ orcs if you don't kill the first or second wave fast enough? (which we didn't, we were goofing off because they were all grey) anyways, the defilers had their wards up on the 2 main tanks that were splitting up the orcs. NONE OF THEM GOT AGGRO. 1 of the tanks which was a bit lower started to get some damage, the warden casted 1 instaheal.....and EVERY SINGLE ORC FROM BOTH TANKS AGGROED TO THE WARDEN. I have screenshots from both of our computers, because the warden was standing by herself a little distance from the main group. It is a sight to behold to see 30+ orcs surround a warden because of 1 heal :smileyvery-happy: And this happened just this past weekend.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anyways, just my input on a very boring day at work :smileysad:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Your wife gets aggro like that because the warden (and fury too actually) aggro works correctly (ie assigning heal hate to the caster) whereas shaman wards and cleric reactives assign hate to the target the ward or reactive is cast on. Tanks can lose aggro just like you do to your wife if they're not on the ball, and you said on that raid you guys were kinda goofin' off cuz it was all grey which was prolly why 1 heal netted aggro for the warden; the main tanks wouldn't have a lotta aggro from the defiler wards against grey mobs because the mobs prolly aren't hitting the tanks much if at all and if they're not really paying much attention to how much taunting they do, the warden will be more likely to pull aggro with a heal.

[markdevox]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Metroelph wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Many well intended statements based on assumption)</DIV> <DIV>     </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Without meaning any offence, I'm so very tired of hearing people talk with authority about things without actually trying to find out facts... also more specifically of hearing people say that furies ought to heal less powerfully because they get so many other great aspects, without having looked into that statement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was stated at the outset by SOE that every priest archetype would be able to heal equally well.  Which left those of us who enjoyed druids in EQ1 and the others who wanted to play a druid for the first time a clear choice: "do I want an offensive healer or a defensive healer".  They didn't make the choice thinking "do I want a damage dealer that can heal a bit or a powerful healer that can cast defensive buffs a bit".  We furies thought we were getting healing skills equal to all other priests.  If I'd wanted damage first, healing second, I'd have been a paladin.  I'm a healer, I'm very good at it, and that's what I thought I'd shine at when rolling for a fury.  Trouble is I don't shine, I just get by.  Not because of my skills but because of my spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So PLEASE stop throwing out the same old "furies should have lower healing to balance for their DPS/debuffs" comments.  It doesn't wash.  But even worse, it's not correct to say furies have so many great other aspects.  You've clearly not looked into the differences between wardens and furies.  So I'll post a link from someone who has.  (and whilst reading it, count the number of responses to it that say "please fix us furies without nerfing wardens" and quit with the anti-fury nonsense).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please read this post if you want evidence that furies don't have anywhere near the level of spell usefulness that Wardens do.</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=30368&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=30368&view=by_date_ascending&page=1</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And finally one simple point: why not wait until Live Update 7 is released before complaining about its content.  You might find it's not as bad as you think.  Hopefully all priests will be happy that they can now all be a group's main healer effectively, just each type of priest will do it in their own way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No offence, just my 2cp.</DIV>

[markdevox]

<P>By the way, that link I posted above also documents fury versus warden DPS and documents in detail with screenshots that wardens come out on top there too.</P> <P>The idea of the proposed balancing is to make the game equally easy/hard for each priest class to function as a healer.  If wardens aren't overpowered, they've nothing to fear.  If they are, they'll have to bite the bullet and accept having to work as hard as everyone else.</P> <P>No doubt any wardens out there will read this and think I'm being negative about them and that truly isn't the case.  We all love our classes and you guys have every right to worry about the proposed changes... but at the end of the day SOE won't go out of their way to break your class, that'd be plain stupid.  They may however reduce some aspects for you that are considered to be out of line with other classes who struggle in comparison.  If that makes it slightly harder to play a warden and slightly easier for others then that's only SOE making things fair.  </P> <P>It's hard to say that without causing offence and that's a shame because it's much better to get along.  I'd really like to hear from a warden who would post to say "Yeah we have had a few nice luxuries for a while compared to other folks, and it looks like we've been caught out.. I guess we'll just have to work around whatever changes SOE throw our way".</P> <P>It's a bit like when pallies got the speed taken away from their horses.  Everyone knew it was coming because they'd got a real benefit there compared to everyone else, from a supposed "fluff spell", and when it happened a lot of them complained but quietly away they knew it was only the hammer of justice catching up with them.</P>

[markdevox]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lady Uaelrea wrote:<BR>This community shoots itself in the foot always. Why would anyone call for a class to get NERFED. Instead to nerfing bring the other classes up to par with Wardens and Furys. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE and the community needs to stop nerfing a class and instead bring it's counter parts to a similar level of effectiveness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please everyone needs to stop asking for other classes to be nerfed it is not right and I would not want for all of my healers I group with not to be able to do a good job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If mystics and other healer types aren't as powerful then bring them up to same level as wardens and furys.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moorgard, I hope SOE is making an effort to keep players happy and not discourage more people.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not sure what you mean there by "bring the other classes up to par with Wardens and Furys".  At the moment furys are seriously gimped.  We don't come anywhere near being up to par with Wardens in many respects.</P> <P>I agree completely with everything else you've said though.  Nerfing one thing doesn't fix another.  I'd have liked to have seen all priest classes brought up to line with the best, rather than anyone having to suffer the nerf bat.  But if SOE think doing so would upset the general balance of the game, then there's a reason behind them reducing the ideal level of <whatever> and bringing everything else to that level.  Perhaps making everyone heal as well as the best current healing class would upset the game equilibrium.  Therefore they've no option but to preserve the integrity of the gameplay by reducing the best and improving the rest.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by markdevox on <span class=date_text>04-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:11 PM</span>

[shtychk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dragonrealms wrote:<BR> <P>The reason wardens are afraid is because he specifically said we're gettin' heals nerfed and he did NOT specifically say hots (or wards for that matter) are going to be rebalanced to work properly. There's nothing to say wardens and furies and shammys will get all the healing love they need; they could do anything with the heals.. they could increase the direct heals of the other classes.. they could give furies the same type of instas wardens have and add a ward/reactive component to shammy and clr heals.. there's no reason for us to think that they'll do things properly or that they'll do it to a great enough extent. What if they increase the regens but don't increase them enough to deal with mob damage like they should yet they've decreased the big instas we rely on? what are the wardens going to do then? Be back-up hlrs or quit either the class or the game; I know I won't be a back-up hlr to anyone.</P> <DIV>There's nothing wrong with expecting the worst and doing all you know to do to prevent that from coming to pass; at the very least you won't be very disappointed if it happens anyway and at the best you'll be wonderfully surprised if something good happens.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree 100%

[shtychk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Enegar wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> encanta wrote:<BR> <P>For those that want to read it the Moorgard quote is in:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=38949&query.id=0#M38949" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=38949&query.id=0#M38949</A></P> <P>Please note that these changes were deferred to be in LU7.</P> <P>Essentially what he has said, in this and other related posts, is:</P> <P>1) Healing aggro will be fixed. So watch out shaman and clerics.</P> <P>2) Taunt (or other ways of adjusting aggro) will be reviewed to make sure that the extra healing aggro does not radically change the game.</P> <P>3) HoT and Wards will be evaulated against reactive heals. No promise, only that if classes cannot heal comparatively then adjustment will be made.</P> <P>4) Warden direct heals (in his opinion) are overpowered. [With the implication that HoT is underpowered.]</P> <P>5) Priest DPS will be adjusted to be more in line with where the developers think it should be.</P> <P> </P> <P>I know people do not like being told one of their spell lines is going to be reduced in power, but all the angst here and in several other threads seems way out of line. It looks like Wardens will get several boosts and a small nerf or two.</P> <P><BR> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>1) So basically other classes will be getting nerfed? Am I supposed to take pleasure in that? I dont get aggro anyway.<BR><BR>2) Tanks taunting better is a great thing.. makes me wish I was a tank. I'm a Warden though. One who doesn't get aggro.<BR><BR>3) Yeah.. no promises. I'm going to remain cynical on this one.<BR><BR>4) Ugh.<BR><BR>5) Yay! More DPS! I cant think of a more useless enhancement than giving more damage to priests. Give us taunts too while you are at it.<BR><BR>So.. I dont mean to be overly angstful or out of line, but exactly how do Wardens benefit from this patch?<BR></SPAN> <P><BR></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>About #5... What makes you think they are going ot Increase DPS?  I always took it as they were goign to Nerf DPS also.....</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Kit_Oturea]

<P>I took it as nothing to do with our individual DPS, but that the mob's DPS will be altered along with the healing.</P> <P> </P> <P>See ya,</P> <P>Rakk</P>

[Rock]

I have no opinion on Wardens as i dont play one. I do disagree however with the comment about Furies being powerful debuffers as at level 32 i have 2 pitiful debuffs that i can never tell even if they have an effect. If you want to compare heals or nukes that might be a good way to compare abiltiies but as far as i'm concerned i'd gladly trade my debuffs for your 200 point better heal. 

[mistress_darknes]

<P>I am behind you one hundred %</P> <P>I am a 37 warden who  has a hard time holding my group as it stands they nerf us  there will be no use  for a warden in game.</P> <P> </P> <P>hugs </P> <P>S level 37 warden</P>

[mistress_darknes]

<P>Mystics are not supose to be  the best healers, </P> <P>you have the wards the best not heal but ward.</P> <P>all we can do is heal</P> <P>we have  to suffer with light armor you get the better armor</P> <P>you get to use spears we dont</P> <P>each class is balanced each offers something to a group.</P> <P>wardens get nerfed then all classes need to be . your wards are far to strong</P> <P>heres a solution bring all classes up do not bring one down.</P> <P> lets work together not distry this game.</P> <P> </P> <P>s</P>

[Shennr]

<DIV> <DIV>Let me tell you guys something about the Wardens Instant heal that nobody else is freaking bringing to the table. The HoT is 20 secs and that is half the heal that is so called superior to the other priests heal. At adept 3 the heal is 954+338+ HoT. That instant heal is 1292. That is I believe about 150 over the Mystic Instant heal. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000099>Now back to the HoT. It heals for 224 per tick for 4 ticks. That is every 5 secs. That kind of heal is nice if your not in a raid because it makes up for the crappy HoTs that we have. Now I am no rocket scientist but 224 health every 5 secs is not going to save a dieing tank.</FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#009900>Now if you still think that Wardens Instant heals are so great then why dont they stack with each other? This means if their are 2 wardens in the same raid and they both cast any of the NC lines of spells then one of their HoT's is gone. That also means their Instant heal is much more on par with everyone elses.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Now if that did not get your attention then Lets talk about our buffs that can assist the Wardens in their healing. Druids get the weakest HP buff of 372 hp for the group at adept 3. We give a total of I believe 48 agi, which actually helps very minimally now since agi has been nerfed. Spirit of the Oak adept 3 gives 530 mitigation. And finally a defense buff for 10 defense at adept 3 which is nice for green mobs but not mobs that a group would be killing. Plus the defense buff roots the caster for the duration of the spell. That is about it that can help us heal for buffs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Next are the Debuffs that can assist in healing. 0 there are none.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People say we are whining because "O we wardens are getting nerfed, what is the world coming too". Then they do comparisons of each of the highest Instant heals and see that our Instant is the highest. So other priests may say Gee, they look like they need a nerf. Their heal does over 2k where everyone elses is 1. Stop their and forget about the HoT on the spell. Our Instant is what should be compared. Others will say "Gee it still is too powerful". I say it makes up for the loss of buffs and debuffs that other priest get that assist in healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ccff00 size=4>The only thing that may be too powerful with our Instant line of heals is the mana efficiency.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ccff00 size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>Our extra healing ability in our instant heals is what makes up for the other priests Wards/Reactives and their Buffs/Debuffs, excluding the fury's from this part. Also, after wards are fixed my statement will be even more true. If their is a nerf I could see the power cost of the spell being increased or taking out the HoT and increasing the Single target HoT's by at least double. This would balance out the class specific heals better while still keeping the Warden's healing ability on par with the other priests.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another method that other priests use for their comparisons with our spells is when they are grouped with us. This method would only work if both priests took off all their buffs and debuffs and did a straight out healing method. When a Warden groups with a Templar then he/she heals (number of casts) then when in a solo healing group. This is because those templar buffs aid the Wardens healing ability along with the Templar's healing ability. The Templar does not really see any Warden buffs benefitting the templars heals because there are none. But for Wardens they are in a whole new ball park. This goes the same for when we group with Shamans. We notice a big difference with you other priest's buffs for sure. So in conclusion to this comparison I would have to say it does not work. The best and only real way to test is use one full group with just a templar solo healing, then switch out with a Warden have have the warden solo heal. These tests will be more accurate after the shamans wards are fixed. I'll get into the Fury's problems later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for Fury's they do deserve the most beefing up in this patch over any other healer. Yes even ove defilers and Inquisitors. Their HoT's would have to be comparable with ours as they already are and I would suggest getting a bigger instant heal as well. Their buffs that are for the group are similar to ours in regard to helping the healer heal. And their debuffs are very much similar to ours as well. This will allow them to be more wanted as a priest for group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as Armor class goes, yes Wardens get the weakest but that is to be expected. We do get a small HP boost because of this fact and we do have our own forms that increase AC and health/power. It is still nowhere what a Templar can give but heh that is not our speciality. Instead I think that it is an equal exchange for some of our utility spells like Evac for the Wardens and group invis/sow for the Fury's. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I suggested how I think that the nerf will be handled but IMO this is how I think it should be handled. Instead of Doing the entire priest balancing in 1 patch they should try just fixing all the bugs first, then beef up the healers that look behind, and if it does look like the Warden's Instant heal for some strange reason is overpowered then nerf it. You cant make comparisons when you do everything in 1 patch. I suggest a 3 patch process. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please someone whine to me more so that I can continue this never ending debate. If I have to I will bring up ratio's on how often a Druid uses their instant heals compared to other priests.</DIV></DIV>

[Chanliang]

Onlything wardens will have nerfed is hot component of direct heals, nothing else is overpowered as far as I can see. Rest will be adjusted accordingly whether it's shaman, priest or druid spells. Light armor... well sorry to say but it's as good as medium armor in practise. Mitigation value at t4/t5 differs only 10-20 points per piece. Mods are often better in light than medium so that's why you'll see people using them. Just at the other day compared selfbuffed fury or was it warden to selfbuffed mystic level 36/37.  Druid had 1% lower mitigation and 9% more avoidance. HP and power we're roughly same. He also had nice ghoulbane in hand.  And the saddest part is that heavy armor isn't that far away. My level 36 mystic had self buffed 2% less mitigation than 39 level paladin self buffed with full silvril set.  Templars get bit higher mitigation thanks to their very nice AC/mitigation buffs. <div></div>

[mistress_darknes]

<P>one other point we are forced to wear light armor, we can not  protect ourselves  that well and nerfing our heals will force us  to  loose group invites.</P> <P>which means we will be stuck soloing.</P> <P> if they nerf our heals then we want heavy armor the same buffs and debuffs as the rest of the classes.</P> <P>I m so fed up with ones complaining about  heals why not complain about the broken  healing classes if they would fix them then we would nt be out doing them.</P> <P>and mystics you are not supose to be strong healers you wards  you stop the damage.</P> <P>we cant so stop the whining and ask for fixes on your classes not nurfs on ours.</P> <P>s</P>

[mistress_darknes]

<DIV>uhmmmm.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>((((Sorry I have to say...You are very overpowered...When A fury or warden heals for more then a cleric or mystic who r suppose to be the highest healers yes....you need an adjustment.  I heal worse being a mystic then pallies...that;s sad and needs to be fixed!!))))</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>uhm excuse me but your not supose to  be  the strong healers wardens and ones are  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you  have the great buffs and debuffs we do not</DIV> <DIV>my goodness i can not wait to start whining about your classes how you  out do us  with your buffs,</DIV> <DIV>your to strong.</DIV> <DIV>you cancel out anything i might  have to use .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>s</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so </DIV>

[Wickening]

Hello this nerf or what ever you want to call is upsetting. I play both a cleric and a warden and i feel that my cleric dose a much better job at healing then my warden. My husband and I duo With my warden (3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and his Pally (3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> now i beleave the trade off for haveing a slightly better direct heal is that if i even think about casting it on my husbands Pally i get a pretty neat thing to happen all the Mobs turn in unison and begin to pummel me and he can not tuant them off me. Now when we duo with his Scout (35) and my Temp (35) i can cast heal after heal and not pick up any agro. My piont is that the trade off wardens make for a slightly better direct heal at higher lvls is that they grab argo like a WIzzy nuking away. That said if you want to fix wardens fix the agro on us =). thanks <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wickening Age 38 Warden (Antonia Bayle)</DIV> <DIV>Ellenroh Elessedil 35 Temp (Antonia Bayle)</DIV>

[Eneg]

<span><blockquote><hr>shtychkn2 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Enegar wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> encanta wrote: <div></div> <p>For those that want to read it the Moorgard quote is in:</p> <p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=38949&query.id=0#M38949" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=38949&query.id=0#M38949</a></p> <p>Please note that these changes were deferred to be in LU7.</p> <p>Essentially what he has said, in this and other related posts, is:</p> <p>1) Healing aggro will be fixed. So watch out shaman and clerics.</p> <p>2) Taunt (or other ways of adjusting aggro) will be reviewed to make sure that the extra healing aggro does not radically change the game.</p> <p>3) HoT and Wards will be evaulated against reactive heals. No promise, only that if classes cannot heal comparatively then adjustment will be made.</p> <p>4) Warden direct heals (in his opinion) are overpowered. [With the implication that HoT is underpowered.]</p> <p>5) Priest DPS will be adjusted to be more in line with where the developers think it should be.</p> <p>I know people do not like being told one of their spell lines is going to be reduced in power, but all the angst here and in several other threads seems way out of line. It looks like Wardens will get several boosts and a small nerf or two.</p> <hr> </blockquote>1) So basically other classes will be getting nerfed? Am I supposed to take pleasure in that? I dont get aggro anyway.2) Tanks taunting better is a great thing.. makes me wish I was a tank. I'm a Warden though. One who doesn't get aggro.3) Yeah.. no promises. I'm going to remain cynical on this one.4) Ugh.5) Yay! More DPS! I cant think of a more useless enhancement than giving more damage to priests. Give us taunts too while you are at it.So.. I dont mean to be overly angstful or out of line, but exactly how do Wardens benefit from this patch?</span> <div></div> <p></p> <hr> <p><font color="#ffff00">About #5... What makes you think they are going ot Increase DPS?  I always took it as they were goign to Nerf DPS also.....</font></p></blockquote> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Just an assumption like all the other posts in this thread. We are all forced to interpret one snippet of a statement from Moorguard. It's worse than being a first year legal graduate student. Here's a handy PR tip for Moorguard, whom I've always liked more than disliked in the past: Teaser statements are great when discussing positive upcoming changes, Teaser statements SUCK when you're talking about nerfs. Now we get to sit on our hands for a month and guess about what SOE is going to do with us. </span><div></div>

[Anlari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kit_Oturea wrote:<BR> <P>I took it as nothing to do with our individual DPS, but that the mob's DPS will be altered along with the healing.</P> <P> </P> <P>See ya,</P> <P>Rakk</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well he actualy stated in one of his posts that the priest DPS would be increased so they could solo more time efficiently.  Currently a healer can kill almost anything, it just takes them forever and a day to do it.