No on No-Trade.

[Tsimhno]

<div></div>If you say "No" to the no-trade on quest items than say "No" here. Keep it civil people, just put a reply with the word "No" or "No on No-trade" is ok too... <div></div><p>Message Edited by Tsimhnori on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 PM</span>

[Troodon]

<div></div>Though I agree with the sentiment, Im not sure whether such petitions are within the forum rules? Better to comment on the other thread on this subject here: <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=12153">Making quested items no trade means the pure adventurer can not make money?</a><div></div>

[Homesli]

What is your reason on no trade?What do you think they can do to make it better for you?Don't just say no to no trade and not give any reasons or suggestions.Personally I am for it and think it is cool myself but then again my main does a lot of quests <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nitefl]

<DIV><STRIKE>I like the fact that you can't buy whatever you want on the broker. <3 No-trade.</STRIKE></DIV> <DIV><STRIKE></STRIKE> </DIV> <DIV>Nevermind, thought you wanted to abolish all No-Trade items. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WTS PRISMATIC WEAPONS!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Niteflyx on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:01 AM</span>

[Thesp]

No trade for quest rewards = good move, IMO. A quest reward is for the person completing the quest, not for someone who only camps the broker.

[Skyhawk]

Yes on no-trade <div></div>

[Dro]

<P>VGery much against this "no Trade" idea. It will spoil the game being fun and ruin my income at the same time.</P> <P>The arument in favor is flawed - quests are only doable once - and with the attunement change a while back this has fixed the problem already. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Skyhawk]

<span><blockquote><hr>Droo2 wrote:<p> It will spoil the game being fun and ruin my income at the same time.</p> <p> </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I think thats sums it up for most people who are against the no-trade flags. I am not quite sure how it spoils the "fun" of the game. The focus of the fun should be in obtaining the item and not on selling it. And it does NOT "ruin" anyones income, unless someone purely makes money by selling quest obtained items. Any items obtained from drops - let that be proper items or vendor trash or spells - will still be flaged as tradeable and so can still be sold. What this does prevent is higher level characters doing easy quests solo and in no time, then selling these items or giving them to twinks. It does not matter if quests are only do-able once or not. Think of all the quests that are going to be added over the course of time! Think back to the EL quest for the bracelett - forgot the name - one of the easiest quests i can remember and one of the best rewards for that level. Such quests will be added as the game moves forward - and a lvl 50 character can just pump out 10 or so a day and get some decent lvl 30s gear - that stuff should not be sold. </span><div></div>

[Vindicis]

Did those of you against the new change bother to read the benefits we are getting in trade for this?  First of all, offline selling, this alone is worth making quest items no trade to me.  Then add in the fact we'll see the quest rewards before doing the quest, more quest rewards to pick from when completing a quest, and finally a more accurate level listed in the journal for said quests.  The benefits far out weigh the one or two quest items most people end up selling.  I myself have never purchased a quest item, although seeing some of them on the broker has prompted me to look the item up and do the quest for myself.

[Katanari]

<DIV>I am against the no-trade. My reasons are in another thread if you wish to read that. To sum it up quickly, it's another killer for the adventurer and another gain for Tradeskillers. Sony you cannot take all the money means away from us Adventurers.. its almost like you are trying to force is to Tradeskill. Sorry I for one do not like tradesklling..literally puts me to sleep. All I can say is to please reconsider this change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone gave a great Idea if you want to try and keep quest items limited on the market..flag them with a "One time sell" flag or how ever you want to word it. Once it sold, or exchanges hands to another player it get flagged as no-trade. Give us Adventures something Sony,please.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Marie-Ange Jourdelune]

<DIV>Stupidity...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Restrain, remove freedom, remove coherence, remove immersion... remove the heart of RPG....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where are we going with this game that cut us every possibilities?  All items are attunable is ugly patches for a deficient craft system.  The system is so boring and long to create something, that crafter are so rare that SOE need to cut adventurer way of life to give to this crafter possibilities...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>More than that,  all players who are at lvl 50 by now had profited from quest item selling, selling all their items when they don't need them anymore...  So, we are restrain... we are affected continually by patches... nerf adventuring, nerf items, nerf...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For what reasons?  Who are paying this game?  Why WoW have more than 4 times our community (1,2 millions customers??? I think it is really more now, 1.2 was the number in January) ?...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE, you patches and nerfs only to help your crafting system be much uses... but your crafting system is ugly.  So, please let the people who despise this crafting system have a possibilities to live without it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually, I am a quester, I do all the quest I can...  (Everquest is really good for quest...) even if they are grey.  If the reward is not good enough or if the reward is a bit more powerful than my item, I don't attune it.  I sell it... and yes, this income is greatly appreciate even if it is only 10S because the market is flood about it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But this reality (market flood by a quest item) bring quester to do more rare quest to do much more money.  So, this give motivation to adventurer to discover quests that no one knows of.  Why I will do Heritage quest if my boots are better than the reward???  Display this boots in my room???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way,  in a couple of year, with the WoW success, we will have a greater range of really good MMORPG on the market.  And most of all, will give us the ability to sells our items (all item attunables is b*ll*h*t, no trade items excess is fu*k*n*, limitation of all your ...) and have a great time of play for the freedom we have to play it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is one reason that the auctions system in WoW is greatly appreciated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So...  it is really sad to see our favorite game be a fascism world of you cannot do this, or you cannot sell this....!  And one time or the other,  the slave player of Eq2 will go at new horizons...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sadly,</DIV> <DIV>Marie-Ange</DIV>

[JonMichael Gardn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vindicis wrote:<BR>Did those of you against the new change bother to read the benefits we are getting in trade for this?  First of all, offline selling, this alone is worth making quest items no trade to me.  Then add in the fact we'll see the quest rewards before doing the quest, more quest rewards to pick from when completing a quest, and finally a more accurate level listed in the journal for said quests.  The benefits far out weigh the one or two quest items most people end up selling.  I myself have never purchased a quest item, although seeing some of them on the broker has prompted me to look the item up and do the quest for myself. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff00cc>I read the release notes and do not consider being able to do selling offline as a benefit to having no-trade quest items.  What's the reason for having that unless you're a tradeskiller?  Pure adventurers won't be able to sell quest items to make any income, so it won't matter if we have to be in our room, selling while adventuring or offline.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff00cc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff00cc><FONT color=#ffff00>I am against the idea of making quest items no-trade.</FONT>  It will force the pure adventurer to lose a viable way of earning an income.  The coin rewards for quests is not enough to maintain a living and the developers have previously stated that mobs will never drop coin.  I don't think this change will help the economy, only hurt it by either forcing the adventurer to craft or to suffer from lack of funds for spell upgrades, armor and other necessities which are usually purchased from our local crafters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff00cc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff00cc></FONT> </DIV>

[ghosthamm]

im split, i understand not wanting the market place flooded. I also don't like being restricted, I already feel confined it what I can do in the game do to its constricting rules which become more so as time progresses. Hopefully its not all quest rewards, just the easily doable ones...I hope there is some discretion. Like the the quests that give you an option on your reward, where there is actually something you can choose for your class, but hard quests that only give 1 specific reward I might have a problem with making no-trade. 

[PIexor]

<DIV>Yes on no-trade</DIV>

[aeio]

I don't like making quest items no-trade.  It limits the availability of items to players.  I am against pretty much any tag on any items, lore, no-drop, no-trade <div></div>

[Xlap]

No. plain and simply NO. this will be horrible for me. the only way i have to make ANY decent money is to sell quest drops that are useless to me (ancient slayer's ring...what's 9int to a caster? s piddly smount of power...what's the ring to a melee? faster attacks<more damage&gt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <DIV>when they insert quested items that are more usefull to casters i wont mind it as much (i.e. 3% spell haste on the intelligence version of the ancient slayer's ring) but as it is, 9/10 of the junk i have a choice for  would be great for melee, and any rewards i could wear...would STILL be great for melee, but is absolutely SUCKTASTIC for a mage.</DIV>

[Tova]

<P>a big emphatic <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>NO </FONT></STRONG>on this change</P> <P>Leave quest items as they are.</P>

[Rizzen19]

<DIV>I'm fine with it .. and no I'm not a tradeskiller ... anything that helps them out though is a good thing. The whole "it opens up more items to me" thing is ridiculous. If you want the item .. do the quest. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A big <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>YES</FONT> </STRONG>for me on this one. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Rizzen1976 on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:35 AM</span>

[Tova]

<DIV>How about those of us that DID the quests, and got no reward? The rewards were added to game after we completed the quest. (One quest in Nek Forest comes to mind, reward was a helluva strong box) We were not given the rewards retroactively. Many created alts to redo the quest and actually GET the item.  Same with the Deathfist Utility Hammer... heck of a hammer with lots of wisdom on it, that I had to purchase... because when I did the quest (when it was added) there WAS no reward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another quest series in Zek lets you choose 5 pieces of armor. If you want the rest of the set... well I guess yer S.O.L. with this new patch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about Freeport people that may want a ghoulbane one day? Oh dusty blue stone wont be tradeable now... guess we can make do with some cheesey crafted sword.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are lots of problems with this addition. Nothing really good.  Next patch... maybe they'll decide that dropped loot should be No-Trade as well. Where does it end? My only hope is that they one day make Crafting Recipe Books no-trade as well, let the crafters feel a bit of the bitter brew they keep feeding adventurers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(For the record, I have 4 crafters, 3 adventurers)</DIV>

[Vulking]

<P>All you people who respond yes to this are either out of you minds, or have no clue about some of the quests that are out there!!</P> <P>Take for instance the Far Seas requisitions in EL,  the reward is like 1 gold and a piece of light armor (misthide i believe).  WHAT THE HELL is a PLATE CLASS going to do with light armor!!!!!!!!!</P>

[Vindicis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <P>All you people who respond yes to this are either out of you minds, or have no clue about some of the quests that are out there!!</P> <P>Take for instance the Far Seas requisitions in EL,  the reward is like 1 gold and a piece of light armor (misthide i believe).  WHAT THE HELL is a PLATE CLASS going to do with light armor!!!!!!!!!</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You need to learn to read the dev tracker before you go around calling people out of their minds.  The devs specifically stated to counter this change they would add more rewards you can pick from to each quest so you aren't stuck with something you can't use.  Pay attention before you start acting like a fool.

[Vulking]

<P>_____________________________________________</P> <P>Vindicis wrote:</P> <P>You need to learn to read the dev tracker before you go around calling people out of their minds.  The devs specifically stated to counter this change they would add more rewards you can pick from to each quest so you aren't stuck with something you can't use.  Pay attention before you start acting like a fool.</P> <P>_____________________________________________</P> <P>First of all I did read the tracker, I always read them, I also have chars on <STRONG>test</STRONG> do you??</P> <P> </P> <P>And you Sir,are still out of your mind!</P> <P> How many quests still remain broken? Do you seriously believe that they are going to go and fix all the item giving quests to add items suitable to each class of character.  </P> <P><STRONG>What would be the point of some of the item specific quests?</STRONG> For example the Robe of the Invoker.  OH, I can see it now the uber strength robe version for the "cross dresser", in all of us plate class players.</P> <P>I do these quests for the exp as well as the gold.  Now if you were talking about giving me the choice of refusing the item in exchange for more exp, Well then Sir, you have a DEAL.</P> <P>But pleaze, get real. were talking about SOE game development here.</P> <P> </P>

[noggin]

One of the biggest thrills I get out of playing EQ is(was?) the alts and the twinking thereof. You may not like twinking, and that's cool. I feel I've already earned my way with my "main" and my alts won't (just like children) go through the headaches that my "main" went through. I've got 3 maple boxes jammed pack right now with mostly quested items that are gifts to my alts. What will I do when this goes live? Sell it all for a fraction of it's worth? (Here's where the non-logic comes in) I will most likely have to sell most of my quested items that I have for my alts (they can't wear them just yet) and it will put money into the economy...Hrmm (not in SOE's plans). SOE "gives" me 2 more character slots to "alt" with but says "no hand-me-downs" with attunements. Now no hand-me-downs with quested items? I don't get it. It doesn't make complete sense. The harm seems to outweigh any benefits. The enjoyment for alt-a-holics (like myself) will fade with this move. <div></div>

[Sunfire]

<P><FONT size=3>ABSOLUTELY NO!</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>1) This change will create a huge Qeynos/Freeport imbalance as the Qeynos quest rewards are largely superior but no one complains because Freeport people can always just buy them.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>2) You will create a giant camping glut around the "good quests" - actually this already exists but it will be 10x worse.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>3) This game cries out for diversity of armor and weapons and you're what - going to take that almost completely away.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>4) The market will be destroyed by this not saved.  No one will be interested in a market of all foraged and crafted goods except crafters.  I'll happily sell back my market board and you can move the brokers all into the tradeskill instances.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>5) If you ran this poll:  </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>You would rather:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>a) Have crafting removed from the game</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>b) Have all quest items made NO-DROP</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>CHOICE A WOULD WIN.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>This is a terrible change and will wreck many of the very good things you have done with this game recently.  REALLY REALLY DO NOT DO THIS.</FONT></P>

[Katanari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> noggin wrote:<BR>One of the biggest thrills I get out of playing EQ is(was?) the alts and the twinking thereof. You may not like twinking, and that's cool. I feel I've already earned my way with my "main" and my alts won't (just like children) go through the headaches that my "main" went through. I've got 3 maple boxes jammed pack right now with mostly quested items that are gifts to my alts. What will I do when this goes live? Sell it all for a fraction of it's worth? <BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am in the same boat as you with quested items saved back for alts. I am basically forced to place them on my alt, cluttering their bank room until theya re able to use the item. Than from there on out any quest reward I cannot use will get sold to the merchants for what..a few silver?? I truely double Sony will listen to us on this, but we can always keep our fingers crossed.</P> <P>Oh and something I found out from the attuning patch, tradeskillers on the test server out rank the adventurers 10 to 1. Kind of makes you wonder huh? (This could have changed by now, but that was the ration when the attuning went live)<BR></P>

[Rizzen19]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vindicis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <P>All you people who respond yes to this are either out of you minds, or have no clue about some of the quests that are out there!!</P> <P>Take for instance the Far Seas requisitions in EL,  the reward is like 1 gold and a piece of light armor (misthide i believe).  WHAT THE HELL is a PLATE CLASS going to do with light armor!!!!!!!!!</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You need to learn to read the dev tracker before you go around calling people out of their minds.  The devs specifically stated to counter this change they would add more rewards you can pick from to each quest so you aren't stuck with something you can't use.  Pay attention before you start acting like a fool. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Don't even bother dude ... these people love the "the sky is falling" routine ... don't try to actually make sense. Anything they don't like .. they cry and whine about like the petulant children they are.

[JonMichael Gardn]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rizzen1976 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vindicis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <P>All you people who respond yes to this are either out of you minds, or have no clue about some of the quests that are out there!!</P> <P>Take for instance the Far Seas requisitions in EL,  the reward is like 1 gold and a piece of light armor (misthide i believe).  WHAT THE HELL is a PLATE CLASS going to do with light armor!!!!!!!!!</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You need to learn to read the dev tracker before you go around calling people out of their minds.  The devs specifically stated to counter this change they would add more rewards you can pick from to each quest so you aren't stuck with something you can't use.  Pay attention before you start acting like a fool. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Don't even bother dude ... these people love the "the sky is falling" routine ... don't try to actually make sense. Anything they don't like .. they cry and whine about like the petulant children they are. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>There's certainly nothing wrong with anyone expressing their opinions on upcoming changes to things that people have invested a lot of time and work for.  I respect everyone's opinions, whether I agree with them or not.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>What is wrong is the judging and name calling from the above posts.  This is a free, public forum to voice opinions and ideas.  Grow up.. if you don't like what's being discussed or agree with it, respect it or go to another forum.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV>

[Pyp]

<DIV>I enjoy doing quests. I dont always have enough friends on when I need ot do them but I know I can go back one day and do it alon and maybe ge ta nice reward out of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tend to choose items that my Alt could use, and then when I play the alt I dont have to keep woryying about equipment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>80% of the quests I AM able to do net me a nice blue or green item... anything better I either buy it or osmeone has given me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I prefer the quests because I can get armor that I dont have to pay 50gold for a full set of from a crafter who spends 4g making it... but if I HAD to spend 50 gold, its not bad, because I can sell some of those quest items to other players to make enough to buy it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just think this is shifting it far to the side of crafters. I LIKE collecting armor for alts, with my main.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say No to the notrade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nyp</DIV>

[Aegori]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Droo2 wrote:<BR> <P>VGery much against this "no Trade" idea. It will spoil the game being fun and ruin my income at the same time.</P> <P>The arument in favor is flawed - quests are only doable once - and with the attunement change a while back this has fixed the problem already.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I honestly cant take this comment seriously given that maybe 1/20th of my item inflow comes from quests. Is it nice to sell them back once i'm done with them or don't need them? yes it is... however, if i cannot it sell these items back, it most certainly will not affect my income to the point where i'm broke. Quest items should be items that people EARN by QUESTING for them... and, no, broker camping is not questing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, not to mention offline selling. Offline selling will allow you to make more money than ever by removing selling restrictions. The marginal profit you lose from selling a quest item can be easily replaced by the fact that people now have access to the goods you can sell 100% of the time if you wish.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, to alleviate other issues with the changes, please refer to this post (<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=29344#M29344" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=29344#M29344</A>) where it clearly says "Plans for the future: Being able to view quest rewards before taking the quest, Multiple Quest reward options, and Making Quest levels appropriate for the reward". This will alleviate you wasting your time on something you no longer view as worth it. It's a very sound and reasonable system to keep the economy in check.</DIV>

[Vulking]

<P>__________________________________________________ _____________________________</P> <P>Aegorian wrote:</P> <P>Also, not to mention offline selling. Offline selling will allow you to make more money than ever by removing selling restrictions. The marginal profit you lose from selling a quest item can be easily replaced by the fact that people now have access to the goods you can sell 100% of the time if you wish.</P> <DIV>__________________________________________________ _____________________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And just what is it you expect to be selling, (vendor trash, harvested items)?  Just asking.</DIV>

[Vindicis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And just what is it you expect to be selling, (vendor trash, harvested items)?  Just asking.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The EXACT same thing I am selling right now (which has never been quest items), adept drops, rare collection parts, harvestable items, and the occasional rare harvest I get once in a blue moon.

[Aegori]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <P>__________________________________________________ _____________________________</P> <P>Aegorian wrote:</P> <P>Also, not to mention offline selling. Offline selling will allow you to make more money than ever by removing selling restrictions. The marginal profit you lose from selling a quest item can be easily replaced by the fact that people now have access to the goods you can sell 100% of the time if you wish.</P> <DIV>__________________________________________________ _____________________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And just what is it you expect to be selling, (vendor trash, harvested items)?  Just asking.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <UL> <LI>Harvested Item</LI> <UL> <LI>the actual harvest fodder</LI> <LI>harvest rares</LI></UL> <LI>Named Drops</LI> <LI>Solo Loot Drops w/ stats (which are a lot more common and sell very nicely according to my experience)</LI> <LI>Adept/Master Tomes</LI> <LI>Tradeskill Tomes</LI> <LI>Collection Pieces</LI> <LI>Creature Mastery Items</LI> <LI>Crafted Items</LI></UL> <P>It's not rare that i do quests and sell the item, but they still literally make up 1/20 of my item inflow. I manage to sell everything i obtain in a reasonable amount of time and for a quite reasonable profit. Also take into account the economics of the issue. If they remove quested items from being tradeable, the two source of items on the broker will be crafted and dropped items. This will make more of a market for BOTH of them... not just tradeskill items. So what you lose in quest items perhaps will be marginally made up for in new demand for dropped items. Overall, it's just my opinion tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I know my playstyle isn't similar to everyone else's and the game experience is different for everyone, so it's hard to argue this point to death. </P> <P> </P>

[Sarelin-SeisB]

<P>A big yes from me.</P> <P>For those who claim that this is is plus for artisans... what the **** are you smoking? How does this affect crafters at ALL? Can I get a toke on your pipe?</P> <P>You can pull 1 plat worth of vendor trash out of a tier-5 zone in a day without even stretching yourself as it is. Why would you need more income? Quests should be done and the rewards of them received at an appropriate level. This change makes sure they are.</P>

[Sunfire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarelin-SeisBua wrote:<BR> <P>A big yes from me.</P> <P>For those who claim that this is is plus for artisans... what the **** are you smoking? How does this affect crafters at ALL? Can I get a toke on your pipe?</P> <P>You can pull 1 plat worth of vendor trash out of a tier-5 zone in a day without even stretching yourself as it is. Why would you need more income? Quests should be done and the rewards of them received at an appropriate level. This change makes sure they are.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The minimum use levels already ensure that quest rewards can only be used by people of the appropriate level.</P> <P>It is impossible to do more than a couple armor quests before all the rewards go green to grey.</P> <P>You would immediately be shutting off all armor of the opposite city's quest to half the player base.</P> <P>This will hurt the game and make it VERY DULL.  It will kill the market for most players.</P> <P>I'm a crafter - a 32 sage with a 29 woodworker alt - and I don't want this.  Take a poll like you did for playstyle preference - I'd stake a lot of money that >80% of your playerbase hates this idea.</P> <P>So uh ... in case you didnt get the gist....  <STRONG>NO ON NO-TRADE!</STRONG></P> <P><EM>and you should fire whoever's idea this was, they obviously dont understand anything about MMORPGs.<BR></EM></P>

[Pyp]

<DIV>"You need to learn to read the dev tracker before you go around calling people out of their minds.  The devs specifically stated to counter this change they would add more rewards you can pick from to each quest so you aren't stuck with something you can't use.  Pay attention before you start acting like a fool. "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So your saying when this patch goes live, they will have added multiple options to all those quests, at the same time?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whats gonna happen, is like the other quests which Tova mentions, Is that you did it, you got Light armor,er yer SOL, maybe next year one of yer alts will do it and get a choice, but with the thousands of quests they have now, theres NO way they will get choices in by the time thsis goes live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just know that any quests that are  grey to me, no matter how well written (and SOME are really interesting to read if you read them, I like Kleron in Nek hehe) I will not be doing anymore. I can get cash faster ae'ing deer in El and antlers to sell or treants for treant lore parts. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No reason to do grey con quests anymore, as I cant sell them for anything reasonable to any more efficient than just kiling grey mobs for drops.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont have a consistent group I can do any quests my level. And the changes to quests, well I dont think they will update the thousands of quests by the time I hit 50, so I should hold off on any quest thats my level or higher until they have them fixed or im SOL at 50, and no point in doing grey cons, which I do for alts now, I was looking forward to playing my Alt up to 50, with a little advantage, now thats totally gone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please fix the issues that affect gameplay (rezzing outside a group, how long has that been?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The crafters I know all have 10 plat horses, and 2 are ready to buy carpets AND undead mounts each... one told me he sells a full set of Armor (t4 I believe) for 39 gold and its 4 gold in cost to him to make it.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this goes in, this is my last character, once he's 50, Ill get his crafting up if need be to see some of the upper level carpenter furniture, then I think im done, but I did have alot of fun!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nyp</DIV>

[Vulking]

<DIV>______________________</DIV> <DIV>Vindicis wrote:</DIV> <DIV><BR>The EXACT same thing I am selling right now (which has never been quest items), adept drops, rare collection parts, harvestable items, and the occasional rare harvest I get once in a blue moon.</DIV> <DIV>______________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ahh, and you find a lot of  adepts?  That people want?...    And how many lizard eyes or golem leashes can you sell in a day?  Harvest items, you mean like briarwood or feyiron clusters?  How much are you making off the sale of these things?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>The rare adept,  I grant you will net a nice profit!</STRONG> </DIV> <DIV> But harvested items get you at best a few silver for the upper tier stuff.  Lets not even talk about rare harvested items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im not trying to continue my previous posting tone, (even if it sounds like I am), but cutting off a stream of revenue for the adventure minded player doesn't seem right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im just frustrated with all the changes both good and bad.  I want a stable game where I know what to expect, and am not going to find thousands of other players following my exact footsteps or I theirs.</DIV>

[Sarelin-SeisB]

<P>Woo I got 1-star-ed by some n00b who quoted me then totally ignored everything I actually said. Making money in this game is easy. Changing quest rewards to no-trade makes absolutely no difference to the money entering the system and only makes a fractional impact on money changing hands between players. </P> <P>Get real. Read what I said. Rate it on WHAT I said.</P>

[Squeg_Loud]

I don't care about the money you can make brokering quest items. That's almost too much work to bother with. I do care about wasting my time. Most of the time, by the time you can finish a quest, you've outgrown the rewards. Being able to pass those rewards on to an alt or a guildmate or even sell them at least makes it worth completing the quest. But if you can't trade them, you might as well just erase every quest that turns green and most of the ones that turn blue, as you'll never really see any benefit from the reward. Sure you can sell them to a merchant, but honestly, some of those quests are tedious enough that the money the merchant delivers will in no way ever make up for the time spent.The problem has already been solved. You can only earn a quest reward once AND only one person will ever be able to use it, since it must be attuned. Going further than that, is just an attempt to force people to craft despite the fact that it's incredibly tedious.If this is being done to prevent ebaying items, than it's a sad, sad solution.

[Thesp]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JonMichael Gardner wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>There's certainly nothing wrong with anyone expressing their opinions on upcoming changes to things that people have invested a lot of time and work for.  I respect everyone's opinions, whether I agree with them or not.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>What is wrong is the judging and name calling from the above posts.  This is a free, public forum to voice opinions and ideas.  Grow up.. if you don't like what's being discussed or agree with it, respect it or go to another forum.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There is something wrong when its an uninformed and illogical opinion.</DIV>

[Sarelin-SeisB]

<P>Just to respond to the person who responded to me, in a responsive fashion:</P> <P></P> <HR> The minimum use levels already ensure that quest rewards can only be used by people of the appropriate level. <HR> <DIV> <P>So go do the quest.</P> <P></P> <HR> It is impossible to do more than a couple armor quests before all the rewards go green to grey. <HR> <P>It is? I did AQ's 1-6 inside 2 days.</P> <P></P> <HR> You would immediately be shutting off all armor of the opposite city's quest to half the player base. <HR> <P>That was the original vision of the game which personally I liked. No cross-city guilds etc.</P> <P></P> <HR> This will hurt the game and make it VERY DULL. <HR> <P>How?</P> <P></P> <HR>  It will kill the market for most players. <HR> <P>A market transferring money from one player to another is not a market. It is a stagnant pool of cash. This change brings more money into the system through sales to npc's.</P> <P></P> <HR> I'm a crafter - a 32 sage with a 29 woodworker alt - and I don't want this.  <HR> <P>What crafting has to do with this I have no idea, but you've barely scratched the surface of crafting at that level.</P> <P></P> <HR> Take a poll like you did for playstyle preference - I'd stake a lot of money that >80% of your playerbase hates this idea. <HR> <P>I'll take that bet, providing anyone answering your hypothetical poll actually sits and listens to the arguments on both sides. I presume you'll offer me good odds considering your confidence?</P></DIV>

[Rizzen19]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thespar wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JonMichael Gardner wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>There's certainly nothing wrong with anyone expressing their opinions on upcoming changes to things that people have invested a lot of time and work for.  I respect everyone's opinions, whether I agree with them or not.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>What is wrong is the judging and name calling from the above posts.  This is a free, public forum to voice opinions and ideas.  Grow up.. if you don't like what's being discussed or agree with it, respect it or go to another forum.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There is something wrong when its an uninformed and illogical opinion.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hehe .. yeah .. thanks. I was going to respond but then I said "why bother".</P> <P>It's funny how no one that I talked to in game .. or in my guild .. has any issue with this change at all. Most of them said "yeah so .. who cares". No one here has yet to come up with a logical reason why this changes would be as catastrophic as the chicken littles here make it seem.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[JonMichael Gardn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rizzen1976 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thespar wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JonMichael Gardner wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>There's certainly nothing wrong with anyone expressing their opinions on upcoming changes to things that people have invested a lot of time and work for.  I respect everyone's opinions, whether I agree with them or not.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>What is wrong is the judging and name calling from the above posts.  This is a free, public forum to voice opinions and ideas.  Grow up.. if you don't like what's being discussed or agree with it, respect it or go to another forum.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There is something wrong when its an uninformed and illogical opinion.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hehe .. yeah .. thanks. I was going to respond but then I said "why bother".</P> <P>It's funny how no one that I talked to in game .. or in my guild .. has any issue with this change at all. Most of them said "yeah so .. who cares". No one here has yet to come up with a logical reason why this changes would be as catastrophic as the chicken littles here make it seem.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#66ff66>Ahhh... I get it now!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff66>Soo... an opinion that some people feel is "uniformed or illogical" allows for name-calling and judgemental responses rather than an informed ADULT response.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff66>Let's discuss the meaning of illogical to start with....</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff66><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P><BR></P>

[Gno]

<div></div><div></div>I have mixed feelings about quested items becoming no-trade.  The way I read it, the quality of those items is also going to increase, which I thought was the carrot for the adventurers and questers.  That the reasoning behind this was attributed to benefiting artisans doesn't help either.  If the "real" driving force is to quell quest farmers, then I suppose making the most desirable quested items no-trade is a good thing. I'm less sure that making low level quested items no-trade serves any good purpose.  Their aggregate value and impact on the economy is relatively small.  Their importance to the majority of real players is significantly larger.  I still believe that artisans and adventurers alike would be better off if the relative quality of crafted items was improved such that it would be competitive with quested and dropped items on the market, than they would be if quested items were better, but no-trade. It seems to me, though I am not there yet, that higher level players would be better off if crafted items were improved relative to dropped and easily quested items which remain tradable.  Improving harder to quest high-level items and making them no-trade would be less of a burden on adventurers while still cutting into the real-life market for the highly profitable uber items. Another part of this change that I'm not reading about in many people's posts is that the no-trade quest items will still be salable to NPC vendors just as no-trade items (that aren't also no-value) are presently.  Wouldn't the amount that NPC's pay for such no-trade quested items would be of some importance to how this change would actually impact adventurers?  If the NPC's give a reasonably high amount, then those adventurers who don't want to sell items to other players might benefit noticeably. <b>The presentation and the timing of rolling out different aspects of this change could use some improvement, presuming that the idea does have merit.</b> First must come the carrot.  If, as it appears from the experiment now on Test, a goal is to encourage players to do more mid-level quests, then perhaps quest rewards need to be improved and alternatives provided that suit different classes.  That implementation work should be done and put on Test for people to see.  It should be publicized with appropriate examples provided.  Then and only then should the holy hand grenade, er, sorry... the nerf bat be brought forth.  The clearly improved quested items, probably only the relatively better ones, should be tagged no-trade on Test before any of the quest changes go live. The most excellent <b>"fix first, nerf last"</b> principle can use Test as its staged display platform so that the live changes can actually happen together as they need to. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Gnofr on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:43 PM</span>

[Rizzen19]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JonMichael Gardner wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rizzen1976 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thespar wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JonMichael Gardner wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>There's certainly nothing wrong with anyone expressing their opinions on upcoming changes to things that people have invested a lot of time and work for.  I respect everyone's opinions, whether I agree with them or not.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>What is wrong is the judging and name calling from the above posts.  This is a free, public forum to voice opinions and ideas.  Grow up.. if you don't like what's being discussed or agree with it, respect it or go to another forum.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There is something wrong when its an uninformed and illogical opinion.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hehe .. yeah .. thanks. I was going to respond but then I said "why bother".</P> <P>It's funny how no one that I talked to in game .. or in my guild .. has any issue with this change at all. Most of them said "yeah so .. who cares". No one here has yet to come up with a logical reason why this changes would be as catastrophic as the chicken littles here make it seem.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#66ff66>Ahhh... I get it now!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff66>Soo... an opinion that some people feel is "uniformed or illogical" allows for name-calling and judgemental responses rather than an informed ADULT response.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff66>Let's discuss the meaning of illogical to start with....</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff66><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P><BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sure that sounds about right. I can give you adult responses but it simply wouldn't be as fun .. or as satisfying. I'm sure some people have a real .. legitimate reason for not wanting this. That is to be expected with any change .. BUT the people that are whining .. for the most part .. are either uninformed or simply following the herd. I know it .. they know it .. and you know it. Most of us here are sick and tired of the whining and chicken little nonsense.

[Vulking]

<DIV>JonMichael Gardner wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rizzen1976 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thespar wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> JonMichael Gardner wrote: <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________</P> <P>Rizzen 1976 wrote:</P> <P>Sure that sounds about right. I can give you adult responses but it simply wouldn't be as fun .. or as satisfying. I'm sure some people have a real .. legitimate reason for not wanting this. That is to be expected with any change .. BUT the people that are whining .. for the most part .. are either uninformed or simply following the herd. I know it .. they know it .. and you know it. Most of us here are sick and tired of the whining and chicken little nonsense.</P> <P>__________________________________________________ _______________________________</P> <P> </P> <P>Who are we sick of more, those that hype, or those that hype the hype?</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>

[Rizzen19]

<DIV>I dont know Jay Z you tell me. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah .. I'm also sick of people who hit reply just for the sake of doing so.</DIV>

[Eadric]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JonMichael Gardner wrote: <DIV><BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>There's certainly nothing wrong with anyone expressing their opinions on upcoming changes to things that people have invested a lot of time and work for.  I respect everyone's opinions, whether I agree with them or not.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#66ff99>What is wrong is the judging and name calling from the above posts.  This is a free, public forum to voice opinions and ideas.  Grow up.. if you don't like what's being discussed or agree with it, respect it or go to another forum.</FONT><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Opinions are fine. But people toss out opinions as fact when they are really nothing more than conjecture. I hear all kinds of crazy statistics that players pull out of the air to try and validate a point they are making.</P> <P>I agree that name calling is pointless (and doesn't contribute to the dialectic), but don't kid yourself into thinking this is a free, public forum. Just try making a post about WoW or try to talk about religions or polotics and see how fast that free voice is muted.</P> <P>Telling people to 'Grow up' only adds further fuel to the fire and incites anger in others.</P>