Why pre-existing fasioned items should not be exluded from the new enhancements

[RedIris]

<DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=50105" target=top><SPAN>Cagefighter</SPAN></A> "Thank god my ebon is all still in cluster form."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#800000></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#800000></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><EM><STRONG><FONT color=#800000>Moorgard -</FONT></STRONG> <FONT color=#ff3300>The new recipes for enchanted items that crafters will be getting allows them to build new items. This isn't about adventurers adding procs to existing items, but rather giving tradeskillers even more cool things to make. The original pristine items will still have a lot of value, and the enchanted items will be new gear that has additional benefits. (done)</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, lets break this down into two parts. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff3300>"This isn't about adventurers adding procs to existing items, but rather giving tradeskillers even more cool things to make."</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, allowing pre-existing items some method of taking advantage of the tradeskillers new abilities does not actually detract from the new cool things tradeskillers can now make, that is still there.  I am also sure that the point isn't to let pre-existing items aquire the new abiltiies, but thats no reason to deny them either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff3300>"The original pristine items will still have a lot of value, and the enchanted items will be new gear that has additional benefits. (done)"</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No they wont, its basic market economics that the value of items is a relative thing.  As soon as a better computer comes out, the one sitting on your desk is now worth less then it was before.  The items are still as capable as they were before, but the platinum someone sunk into an ebon breastplate is being majorly devalued by this.  They will have very little value in the eyes of those who own them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This game is trying to appeal to a large variety of players and I greatly respect the difficult task this entails and understand that often players of different styles don't respect each others priorities.  But serious gamers do exist in this game and you are trying to appeal to them as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take this example:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bob works hard harvesting 8 hours a day for a week., he finally manages to get his ebon and quickly negotiates with a crafter and then sits in pride at his shiny new breastplate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jim works occasionally for a few weeks and just as he finds his ebon notices the new upcoming changes and decides to hold onto his ebon until he can get the full pontential out of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the change comes in, Bob still has his ebon plate and meets Jim wearing his plate with the new proc.  What did Jim do to earn the better plate?  To put it simply, its not fair.  Life isn't always fair, but there is no reason it can't be here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[thebigtime]

<DIV>tehehe im glad i sunk all my efforts into gearing my assassin as good as possible only to have a mid-game change come in stealth style making my ebon worthless kekeke lala~ wtg sony /sarcasm off. nice one</DIV>

[RedIris]

<DIV>One possible solution that I havn't seen mentioned.  It would take advantage of new capacities of the crafting system and makes perfect sense really.  It also wouldn't give the bank away for free.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Put the final recipe for the combine in the geomancy book, that way any player can add the proc to their item so long as their crafting level is high enough to scribe the apporiate tier'd geomancy book.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This still can require subcombines that require several different crafters, it still lets crafters broker items with the actual proc on already and it lets adventurrs update their own equipment, even if it does actually involve some work.  They can still purchase the better items, choices are good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also like the idea of making some higher level adventurer items require high level crafting skills(rather then them all being level 9 so every crafter type can do) as a way to diversify the way items enter the game.  And when I saw the new tradeskill types like geomancy and apothocray, I thought that was the perfect way to do it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[benba]

<P>Rubucite Vanguard Spaulder sells for 15 to 20 golds. </P> <P>stats: 3 less Stamina and 30 less AC than Ebon Vanguard Spaulder</P> <P>And what's the cost of the Ebon Spaulder? 3 plats.  </P> <P>The Dev does not have a clue about how the economy and item works in this game.</P> <P>Everyone want the best item in this game and if it's not...the price drops by 90%</P>

[Vindicis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thebigtime wrote:<BR> <DIV>tehehe im glad i sunk all my efforts into gearing my assassin as good as possible only to have a mid-game change come in stealth style making my ebon worthless kekeke lala~ wtg sony /sarcasm off. nice one</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah, because changes so rarely occur in an mmorpg.  I can see why this is so shocking to you.

[thebigtime]

nice reply Vindicis, i dont think you are understanding so ill try again...ive spent at least 40 hours harvesting for ebons, and have raided many many times to complete my rare armor, suddenly patching a new tradeskill solution that effectively makes all attuned rare armor worthless compared to the new stuff. did it get through that time?

[Bolr]

" suddenly patching a new tradeskill solution that effectively makes all attuned rare armor worthless compared to the new stuff." How in the world do you jump to that conclusion? It's already attuned, so what other people will "value" it at doesn't come into the picture. Expecting that new breastplate to have a 6200 point damage shield or something? <div></div>

[Alther]

Jeeze people...  If someone walked up to you on the street and handed you 10 million dollars I'd bet you'd still find a reason to @#%#$, whine and complain.  How about, instead of throwing a temper tantrum, you go leap off a cliff.  It will be much more productive for society as a whole. <div></div>

[benba]

why are you reading this boards if you don't want to listen to the whining? You still haven't realized that 95% of the boards are for whining?

[Vindicis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thebigtime wrote:<BR>nice reply Vindicis, i dont think you are understanding so ill try again...ive spent at least 40 hours harvesting for ebons, and have raided many many times to complete my rare armor, suddenly patching a new tradeskill solution that effectively makes all attuned rare armor worthless compared to the new stuff. did it get through that time? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No, I dont think you understand, slick.  Your ebon armor is still ebon armor, it's not being changed.  New items are being added, get over it and shut up.  You think you should be compensated for playing a game everytime a change is made?  Get real, sport.

[Aegori]

<P>and not to mention... the new enhancements for your ebon armor will apply to legs and chest. Two pieces you have to replace. You don't have to work up a whole new suit to have the best. I dont see why that's so unreasonable.</P> <P>-Aeg</P>

[Crotal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> benbang wrote:<BR> <P>Rubucite Vanguard Spaulder sells for 15 to 20 golds. </P> <P>stats: 3 less Stamina and 30 less AC than Ebon Vanguard Spaulder</P> <P>And what's the cost of the Ebon Spaulder? 3 plats.  </P> <P>The Dev does not have a clue about how the economy and item works in this game.</P> <P>Everyone want the best item in this game and if it's not...the price drops by 90%</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Two things here, based on the rare alone, the old BP will never sell as low as 15g.  Second, your BP actually devalues the moment you attune it.  The new value is what you can get from an NPC, which wont change after the new BPs come out.</P> <P> </P> <P>If there was a new dropped BP that beat the crafted one, I seriously doubt there would be this level of complaining.  Yet at the same time the same people would be the ones scrambling to get it.</P>

[Fle]

Yer next time microsoft brings out a new version of windows im gonna demand i get it for free.Next time i buy something from a shop and then see the price has dropped when i next go back, im gonna demand a refund on the difference.The next time i upgrade my computer only to find a few months down the line that it's no longer the top of the range, im gonna demand i get all the new gear for free to replace what i bought already.Weany, Whiny , Whingers.

[Erronn]

Yea folks, this is the typical mudflation....new items get introduced that make your existing items less valuable, important, "uber". This time the items just happen to share a name with what you already have...

[RedIris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crotalus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> benbang wrote:<BR> <P>Rubucite Vanguard Spaulder sells for 15 to 20 golds.</P> <P>stats: 3 less Stamina and 30 less AC than Ebon Vanguard Spaulder</P> <P>And what's the cost of the Ebon Spaulder? 3 plats. </P> <P>The Dev does not have a clue about how the economy and item works in this game.</P> <P>Everyone want the best item in this game and if it's not...the price drops by 90%</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Two things here, based on the rare alone, the old BP will never sell as low as 15g.  Second, your BP actually devalues the moment you attune it.  The new value is what you can get from an NPC, which wont change after the new BPs come out.</P> <P> </P> <P>If there was a new dropped BP that beat the crafted one, I seriously doubt there would be this level of complaining.  Yet at the same time the same people would be the ones scrambling to get it.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I agree with everything your saying.  The difference between a dropped BP and a new type of crafted item that uses the same rare is that those that used their rare up already are in a worse position then those that have not, a difference which is not only arbitrarty but  in fact counter intuitive with reward vs effort.  Those that worked harder will in fact end up with less, as a result of having worked harder and for no other reason.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes those that are complaining are the same ones that will be scrambling to get it, this is what drives th em, having the best they can get.  There is nothing wrong with this style of play, its validated by the design supporting such playstyle.  If it doesn't agree with you, I do not judge you for that, please be so kind as not to judge me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, how does it hurt YOU to allow already crafted items benefit from this?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Bolr]

<div></div>Because changing it now, to calm down the whiners, validates that type of behavior; and that (through increments) will probably ruin the game that I enjoy playing. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Bolrus on <span class=date_text>03-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:17 AM</span>

[RedIris]

<DIV>So are you suggesting then that there is never a situtation in which people can raise an issue here to be considered for change?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean it doesn't sound like you have any complaint about the suggested change itself, just with that it is a suggested change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Syanis]

<P>I see an issue with this also. I just dumped in the last week 8 1/2 plat on ebon and now sit nearly broke getting a few ebon pieces made. Now I'm seeing that what I just got is about to be devauled majorly. I got my ebon to have the best armor I can realisticly get. Now I'll be sorely [Removed for Content] if there isn't a way for me to get my new shiny ebon armor that has just been attuned enchanted. I'll see this as yet a midgame nerf to all of us who busted our butts off to get the best we can just to have SoE come and make our stuff obsolete already.</P> <P> </P> <P>Way To make everything enchanted that could be possibly. Have XYZ crafter type make the enchanting elixer / powder... whatever wanna call it. Make it so we can add it on ourselves to our existing / attuned armor. However making the final combine a recipe would need to keep it lvl 9 as with heritage crafted items since some of us don't want to have to level up a character as a crafter just so we can enchant our already attuned armor. I already have 2 crafters and don't want my adventurer char having to be one also just so I can attune his ebon armor.</P> <P> </P> <P>Nother possibility. Allow no trade / attuned stuff to be put in the trade window with a new button somewhere to enchant the item.... I put in my shiny pristine ebon bp (attuned).... armorer puts in his/her enchanting elixer or whatever... click enchant button and presto its done and the enchanted armor is in my inventory and never got traded.</P> <P> </P> <P>Flitch Flea 43 Assassin</P>

[ghosthamm]

    Yes it sucks when certain changes occur, yes you spent time, yes you spent money...but to say that you did all that and now your armor is worthless is too extreme.  Your armor will be no different in a month , then as it is now.  It is still ebon, your mad because now it wont be the most uber.  nothing has changed, they didnt nerf you, they just added something new, and your armor will be just as good as it has always been.

[Fle]

What your asking for is un-realistic.New discoveries and inventions are always being made and existing technologies are always being improved on. The world of norrath can be compared in that way to the real world...new discovories are made etc...Your asking for your existing armour to be remade and include new technology that just happened to not be around at the time. That is un-realistic in my opinion.

[RedIris]

<P>I happen to love most changes and in fact think this is a great change overall, even if they do stick with the current method of implementation.  I just feel that there is nothing to lose by allowing older items to be upgraded and much to be gained in customer satisfaction.  Why is a previous item being denied this enchantment, there is no logical, balance reason for it.  The only effect is to waste alot of effort on the part of those that strive for the best and now have to start over when merely waiting a bit would have saved them that effort.  </P> <P>No one has yet given a reason why it shouldn't be allowed.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Vindicis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RedIris wrote:<BR> <P>I happen to love most changes and in fact think this is a great change overall, even if they do stick with the current method of implementation.  I just feel that there is nothing to lose by allowing older items to be upgraded and much to be gained in customer satisfaction.  Why is a previous item being denied this enchantment, there is no logical, balance reason for it.  The only effect is to waste alot of effort on the part of those that strive for the best and now have to start over when merely waiting a bit would have saved them that effort.  </P> <P>No one has yet given a reason why it shouldn't be allowed.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because the items are attuned, they'd have to develop an entire system of un-attuning the items so people can give them to a crafter to enchant.  Way too much trouble and open for abuse.

[Jillybean]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Syanis wrote:<BR> <P>I see an issue with this also. I just dumped in the last week 8 1/2 plat on ebon and now sit nearly broke getting a few ebon pieces made. Now I'm seeing that what I just got is about to be devauled majorly. I got my ebon to have the best armor I can realisticly get. Now I'll be sorely [Removed for Content] if there isn't a way for me to get my new shiny ebon armor that has just been attuned enchanted. I'll see this as yet a midgame nerf to all of us who busted our butts off to get the best we can just to have SoE come and make our stuff obsolete already.</P> <P> </P> <P>Way To make everything enchanted that could be possibly. Have XYZ crafter type make the enchanting elixer / powder... whatever wanna call it. Make it so we can add it on ourselves to our existing / attuned armor. However making the final combine a recipe would need to keep it lvl 9 as with heritage crafted items since some of us don't want to have to level up a character as a crafter just so we can enchant our already attuned armor. I already have 2 crafters and don't want my adventurer char having to be one also just so I can attune his ebon armor.</P> <P> </P> <P>Nother possibility. Allow no trade / attuned stuff to be put in the trade window with a new button somewhere to enchant the item.... I put in my shiny pristine ebon bp (attuned).... armorer puts in his/her enchanting elixer or whatever... click enchant button and presto its done and the enchanted armor is in my inventory and never got traded.</P> <P> </P> <P>Flitch Flea 43 Assassin</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>...so forgive me for using your post as the example but honestly. Did you expect what was the best armor in the game to ALWAYS remain the best armor in the game? Things change. in AO, Azure Revaries took multiple teams and camping longer than you'd ever consider harvesting in order to spawn the mobs to kill to HOPE they dropped a breastplate or something useful. Now, it's not bad armor..but there's better. MUCH better that was introduced down the line. So in this... yes, you have Ebon armor..and it's still going to be ebon armor and yes you spent money and worked hard to get ebon armor. That's something not alot of people have done and it is STILL an achievement but why is it that if you have the best now you expect sony to simply hand you what you need so you ALWAYS have the best. It's a perpetually changing world so new items are going to be added that are going to be better than what was the top of the line two months ago..</P> <P>  ...I bought a ferrari..damnit now that new one came out that's got better horsepower..I'm sure that's unfair that other people can get it but I can't afford to now after paying so much so they BETTER let me bring it in and get it updated for nothing..   that makes about as much sense as the "I worked hard so I deserve to always have what's best each time it's introduced" argument</P>

[RedIris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fleet wrote:<BR>What your asking for is un-realistic.<BR><BR>New discoveries and inventions are always being made and existing technologies are always being improved on. The world of norrath can be compared in that way to the real world...new discovories are made etc...<BR><BR>Your asking for your existing armour to be remade and include new technology that just happened to not be around at the time. That is un-realistic in my opinion.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok, you posted this as I posted my previous <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>As I understand the change, a pristine item can be used in a new recipe to create an enchanted version of that item.  It seems exactly like they are taking existing armour to be remade using the new technology.  I imagine that an item made a month ago that hasn't been attuned can still be enchanted.</P> <P>Im not exactly sure what happens in the attunement process that prevents this for other items, does it prevent it for adventurers who are also crafters and happen to be of the type of crafting class needed for the final combine?  Can an armourer enchant his own attuned armour?</P> <P>Attunement is an abstraction that is there to drain money out of the game by taking equipement out of the game rather then having it handed down to other players.  Its really has no realistic value and anyway, its not like this will allow equipment to be passed on to other players, its still staying on the same player.</P> <P> </P> <P>And also remember that all the work needed to find the rare componants to do the enchantment, all the work of the crafters to aquire the recipes and subcombines still has to be done, its not as if this wouldn't still happen.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Bolr]

"No one has yet given a reason why it shouldn't be allowed." It seems obvious to me. They must have the system already in place on the test server, and making this change would require work (possibly quite significant) to the item system. With the lifespan of MMOGs, and the rapid pace of change in this one in particular, it seems foolish to expend extra resources on a "problem" that will almost assuredly be quite forgotten within a few months. And, as mentioned above, the same people that are upset by this development, by the nature of their playstyle, will be back out there finding another piece of ebon or whatever anyway, so why bother changing it? <div></div>

[Baelzharon]

Short term this is going to be tough, but long term the possibility of enchanted items and crafting rare enchantments off of rare mobs is amazing. Unless you plan on never upgrading a single piece of equipment ever again (highly unlikely in a MMOG) no one should be upset about this. A month from now this whole thread will be silly... <div></div>

[RedIris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bolrus wrote:<BR>"No one has yet given a reason why it shouldn't be allowed."<BR><BR>It seems obvious to me.<BR><BR>They must have the system already in place on the test server, and making this change would require work (possibly quite significant) to the item system. With the lifespan of MMOGs, and the rapid pace of change in this one in particular, it seems foolish to expend extra resources on a "problem" that will almost assuredly be quite forgotten within a few months.<BR><BR>And, as mentioned above, the same people that are upset by this development, by the nature of their playstyle, will be back out there finding another piece of ebon or whatever anyway, so why bother changing it?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Well many will be out there getting that new piece of ebon while grumbling under their breaths, some might quit.  Probably not me, as I happen to read about this right before I went to attune my pristine ebon leggings and only would have to replace my plate.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But alot of people are on the threshhold of being fed up with several broken aspects of the high end game and this will probably push a few of them over and push almost all of them a little closer for that next change they dont like(valid complaint or not)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lairdragna]

<P>What I would like is a clear and concise answer from a Dev.</P> <P>If the process is a pristine item can be enchanted, will my UNATTUNED suit of pristine feysteel vanguard sitting in the bank be able to be enchanted prior to attunement?  Reasonable enough question.  If the armorer is adding an enchantment after the fact to a pristine item, and I have unattuned pristine items, will they be able to be enchanted?</P> <P>If not, WHY not?</P> <P>I would strongly suggest that some means to enchant existing items be found because I actually see a potential for a backlash here against crafters.  If someone lays out 35p to have a suit of pristine ebon made and is penalized because he or she happened to get it a couple days earlier, I could see that person saying never again and sticking to quested and dropped items.</P> <P>In the very least, implement enchanting of unattuned pristine items.  If possible, implement an NPC that can enchant existing items for a short window at a fairly high cost... say 2g per piece for tier 3, 5g per piece for tier 4, 10g per piece for tier 5.  This wouldn't compromise existing crafters as they would still get all the work for the new gear, it would satisfy the existing players with gear and not require unattuning and reattuning and would serve as a money sink.  Is it a perfect solution for anyone?  No, is it balanced, I think so.</P>

[Eleis]

Thank God I play a Wizard and dropped/quested VLA gears are very good already.Almost bought some rare crafted VLA armor yesterday, then saw the patch notes =P I think SoE is getting really harsh on crafters.<p>Message Edited by Eleison on <span class=date_text>03-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:14 PM</span>

[Moorgard]

<DIV>To be clear, these new recipes do not enchant every crafted weapon or piece of armor in the game; only certain ones. The pristine versions of certain weapons and armor can be combined with the magical extracts to make these new items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>If an adventurer already owns the appropriate weapon or armor and hasn't attuned it, the items can be handed to the proper artisan to be used to make the new items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>If an adventurer who owns one of the weapons or armor pieces that can be enchanted is of the appropriate artisan class, that person could use the magical extracts to create his or her own enchanted items whether the pieces are attuned or not. The recipe doesn't care whether the item is attuned, but if the item is attuned already it can't be traded to someone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>We don't plan to introduce an unattune function. My point in the chat last night was that these new recipes aren't about giving every adventurer an easy upgrade to their gear. The recipes are being added to give artisans more cool stuff to make.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Think of these items as new gear that is being added to the game. Just because a new item was added that has an advantage over something you worked hard to get doesn't mean that your existing item is worthless just because it isn't the best anymore. Standard pristine armor will still have the same value to the wearer and provide exactly the same protection; it just happens that something new has come along.</FONT></DIV>

[Daffid011]

Dig it!  Thanks Moorgard <div></div>

[Erronn]

Thanks for the explaination, Moorguard - That's what I was trying to convey...just because the "new" better armors have the same name (i.e. enchanted ebon breastplate) as existing armors, they are still "new" items. I think if the enchanted items were called "enchanted wizbank breastplate) then folks wouldn't have such a hard time understanding that this is just new and improved equipment...

[SageMarrow]

<P>moorguard i respect your profession and i know that its just as horrible as it is fun... but at the same time, this whole entire fiasco with disregarding the issue at hand and working around it for marketing and "keeping everyone happy purposes" just insnt right brother.</P> <P>not trying to stir up an alternate fiasco, but what other purpose do adventurers have outside of striving to be the best? That means in weapons, armor, gear, adepts.  So with this new addition, which is fine and will be great for the most part i do agree, but to downplay it for those that may have already aquired a certain item and cannot upgrade because of the attunement issue, is not right and or fair in the least.</P> <P>Personally, the game is nice, but my character as well as everyone elses is thier TRUE fun. being able to say that they are good or great even and have some pride in thier work comes strictly from gear, not diversity or spell choice or the direction you chose to take ur character from a list of options.</P> <P> Once you hit level 50, it is possible to have done everything there is to do in PRESENT DAY Eq2. As where i understand the issue with content, there will never be enough content any time soon until 5 years from now, then the devs can post a dare to players as to attempt to do everything there is to do...</P> <P>But i digress, the above statement further solidifies the fact that the players characters are thier primary focus, and "fun". Soon raids become loot farms, and as much as they look awesome and run great on my Geforce 6800gt (sarcasm...just playing not an issue), killing turtles solo because i cant find a group is a means of leveling and powering up my character and gaining some sort of finances for "weapons and armor" to make myself a better toon because i dont find tradeskilling entertaining.  I understand that you cannot please everyone at one time, and that yes - thats an untangible goal.</P> <P>I merely said all that to say this, please be a bit more truthful in your explanations. I understand the reserved approach, but that usually just causes more underlying turmoil than it really being solved. When someone fluffs, admit to it and move on. which is more repsectable and understandable and non-debateable. when someone in the development process changes thier mind - let the players know in all totality, it wont always be pretty, it wont always sound nice. but personally i value respect above like/dislike. there are ways to say things tactfully and make changes and go different directions without losing credibility.</P> <P>Thank you.</P> <P>Sage marrow. </P> <p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>03-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:29 PM</span>

[benba]

<P>having an NPC charge 10 golds to unattune an item? What an idea!</P> <P>This would solve the entire mess.</P> <DIV>Heck, I would pay 50 gold to unattune one piece considering I had to play 3.5 plats for it or 3.5 plats for a new one.</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

no, make that 5 plats for a new one, now its better than it was before...=)

[Tasaz]

I don't speak up a lot on issues like this, but this is a point I think has a great deal of validity for the high level players.  A level 50 player may have spent many plat to get the crafted ebon armor.   Suddenly, a new form of armor is released and all this money spent on their armor is lost for them to be able to upgrade when the exact same items crafted new can be upgraded. I am an armorer myself. I would love nothing more for everyone to have to purchase entire sets of new armor from me so I can really rake in the coin, but some players have such a huge investment in this that I see it as a bit unfair. <b>Why not make all crafted items un-attuned after the patch that implements this?</b>  Give all players a chance to upgrade their existing crafted armor.  If they don't wish to do that, they can simply re-attune the items.  Problem solved.  At least this gives the players the choice if they wish to upgrade those items instead of making them obsolete. <div></div>

[Garlin1]

<DIV>While I like the improvements for enhancing weapons, armor, etc.  I find it to be more geared towards a melee standpoint.  A activatable stat increase is nice, don't get me wrong, but perhaps some sort of casting % increase or mana regen.  I dunno.  I am happy though for what we are getting =)</DIV>

[Ricassari]

<span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div>Think of these items as new gear that is being added to the game. Just because a new item was added that has an advantage over something you worked hard to get doesn't mean that your existing item is worthless just because it isn't the best anymore. Standard pristine armor will still have the same value to the wearer and provide exactly the same protection; it just happens that something new has come along.</div><hr></blockquote> This is simply not true. Utter b***[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Of course DOES new and better armor reduce older armor in value. A 486 comp with windows 3.11 may once have been state of the art and very valuable. Now it is worth crap. Not because it does not work any more. Or because it has become slower somehow. No, just by the mere fact that now better and faster comps are available now. Same with armor. Check EQ1. Remember the pre-Kunark times? Which weapons have been considered to be powerful and uber? With the introduction of new and better stuff in the expansions, they have lost value to nearly nothing. A game developer who is unable to see this simple truth, this very simple and basic mechanic of an economy, probably shoud do something else than develop MMORPGs. </span><div></div>

[CerraWhisperwind]

These are not upgrades to existing armors and weapons, these are new armors and weapons that happen to use pristine versions of some crafted items as an ingredient.  If you want one, just buy one.  Its not like money is hard to get in this game.  If you are having a hard time with money, ask around for tips, there are lots of ways to earn coin. <div></div>

[Fle]

<DIV>This is simply not true. Utter b***[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's totally and completely true, your just pig ignorant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>New and better stuff comes out all the time. Just cuz you have the best at the time dos'nt mean you should just expect to be handed the new best thing when it comes along.<BR></DIV>

[Thibor24]

<DIV>Some issues with unattuning everything after the patch:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These new raws will be uncommon and as we know rare means almost impossible to find uncommon probably means not many will be found too quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tradeskillers will need to spend time building up faction with the new merchants.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if you unattune all your armor after the patch and its say two weeks before you can get an upgrade you cannot wear your armor in the meantime which will cause an even bigger uproar.</DIV>

[Ricassari]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fleet wrote:<div>This is simply not true. Utter b***[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. </div> <div> </div> <div>--------------</div> <div> </div> <div>It's totally and completely true, your just pig ignorant.</div> <div> </div> <div>New and better stuff comes out all the time. Just cuz you have the best at the time dos'nt mean you should just expect to be handed the new best thing when it comes along.</div><hr></blockquote>Try to raise your reading skills above zero before typing. I did not say everyone should be handed the newest best items. I just said that it is not true when Moorgard says new and better items do not reduce the value of old items. If you doubt this, get an IQ above zero too. Then you might understand my examples in the posting above. Oh, and please continue to 1-star all SOE critics please. I just dont care. Just the opposite. It clearly shows how immature and childish these fanbois are. </span><div></div>

[Seomon]

I've spent all my money on getting a full set of ebon, and this is kind of a shot in the crotch. Make Attuned items tradable but make it so they can't be equipped by anyone other than the person who attuned it, that way I don't have to go on yet another 20+ hour mining spree for an ebon.

[WussyboyTid]

GOD are you ppl crazy or something??  Pristine Ebon armor is not the best armor out there anyway!  There are master drop armors that you can get from master chests from raid mobs that are better then Pristine ebon armor is already with better stats and a proc.  Either way its not like everyone will need to get their armor to add these procs because they only go off when you are attked by a mob and as such only are usefull for tanks because other charachters shoudlnt even be taking damage like healers who wear heavy armor or the scouts/healers who wear med armor.  Seriously though the only thing these enhancements are adding on the armor you already have that is already uber is a chance to do some extra damage to the enemy when you are hit.  They arent gonna add resists or stats to the armor at all, The only difference between a tank in full ebon and a tank in full enchanted ebon is that the enchanted tank can do a little extra damage to the mobs on every hit that will be negligable in a raid setting anyway.  What is a good addition though is the ability to add procs to cedar stuff.  People dont need as may cedar items as ebon anyway so as it turns out, most of the people in my guild already have the cedar they need so it will be easy to get a cedar wand to do some extra damage to the enemy especially when most ppl havent been using pristine rare crafted weapons anyway with their lack of procs.  <div></div>

[Seomon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WussyboyTidus wrote:<BR>GOD are you ppl crazy or something??  Pristine Ebon armor is not the best armor out there anyway!  There are master drop armors that you can get from master chests from raid mobs that are better then Pristine ebon armor is already with better stats and a proc.  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Oh yeah, because we are all in uber raid guilds. Oh wait, no we aren't.<BR>

[benba]

<DIV>Yea, we're all running 6 bots machine farming Blightrat for the Shimmering Breastplate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre. There's probably 5000000 Shimmering Breastplate out there on every server, right?</DIV>

[stainremov]

moorgard meant that your items don't lose any personal value. they still provide the same amount of stats and the same amount of protection. just because new items come out doesn't make your items any weaker. yeah they lose market value, but it's not like you could have sold it for anything worthwhile anyways. <div></div>

[Ryk]

<DIV>   Well said stain.</DIV>

[Zyz]

<DIV>I understand what you're saying, Moorguard, but it's a little upsetting to me to have worked SO LONG to put together the first full set of crafted Ebon on my server, and to just attune the day before your announcement. It's not like I'm talking about a set of blackened iron chain that I'll outgrow before it even goes live...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zyzax</DIV>

[DranDarkRid]

I was going to say essentially what Seomon suggested.  Keep armor Attuned, but make them tradeable.  There wouldn't be an issue of unAttuning items, and it would allow those who've worked so hard already to not have to work even harder now to get those vital pieces (the bp comes to mind for tanks) enchanted.  Ebon is already jacked up in price because it's also used in a heritage, so it's not very easy to come by, even on raids, since virtually everyone has a use for it. I think the only people that aren't complaining about this are sub 40, and therefore don't feel the sting of having spent every penny they've had on this armor.  This isn't a pop shot to anyone who has yet to reach 40, but for those who've spoken up in favor of the system as is, put yourself in the shoes of someone who just finished a full suit of rare crafted armor and attuned.  It really isn't fair to do this to them. I myself have no ebon armor on, opting instead to pass along ebon pieces I come across to classes that truly need it.  So I am not saying this as a bitter higher lvl player who just attuned armor himself. <div></div>

[Miyu-Lega]

Moorgard, I'm sorry but that is truely unacceptable.  Many of us have spent a great deal of money for our rare crafted gear, and now the <b>exact same gear</b> can have an ability added to it, if you wait til after the patch.  You are now telling us to spend the exact same ammount of money to make yet more armor we already have, just to have a fx added to it to be a better tank, scout, caster ect. SoE has made many changes recently that are driving the player base mad.  Many of us have seen our friends up and quit due to this, and it appears SoE is still making those same decisions reguardless of how the player feels, just like the days of old.  You need to find an alternative, period.  Make the Alchemist make the liquid, the specific tradeskiller alter it in some way and make it a quest style recipie like the PGT. <div></div>

[Ibis]

1 star moorgard.  <div></div>

[Ricassari]

While the stats of old armor surely remain the same, you will see that mobs will be adjusted within the next few patches to match the new armor, in order not to trivialize content. SOE is still experimenting with mob strenghts and balance issues, and adjustments to combat-related stats happen (way too) often. Also, every new dungen/expansion/adventure pack will orient at the new armor available. So, effectively, the old armor WILL become less useful, because while their stats remain the same the world around them will be scaled upwards. As I already said, an 486 computer still has the same stats as 10 years ago, but is totally useless now despite this fact. <div></div>

[Vindicis]

Most of you people are some the worst whiners I've ever seen.  You really are pathetic.  Guess what kids, you don't get what you want for once, now GET OVER IT!  You don't like it, well holding your breath and kicking your feet might work with mommy but not here.  Your recourse, quit or adapt.  Do one of the other and shut the hell up.  Frankly I don't think any of you are mature enough to back up your actions so I suspect you'll just keep on flaming and trolling the devs.

[gooli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>To be clear, these new recipes do not enchant every crafted weapon or piece of armor in the game; only certain ones. The pristine versions of certain weapons and armor can be combined with the magical extracts to make these new items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If an adventurer already owns the appropriate weapon or armor and hasn't attuned it, the items can be handed to the proper artisan to be used to make the new items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If an adventurer who owns one of the weapons or armor pieces that can be enchanted is of the appropriate artisan class, that person could use the magical extracts to create his or her own enchanted items whether the pieces are attuned or not. The recipe doesn't care whether the item is attuned, but if the item is attuned already it can't be traded to someone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't plan to introduce an unattune function. My point in the chat last night was that these new recipes aren't about giving every adventurer an easy upgrade to their gear. The recipes are being added to give artisans more cool stuff to make.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think of these items as new gear that is being added to the game. <FONT color=#ff3333>Just because a new item was added that has an advantage over something you worked hard to get doesn't mean that your existing item is worthless just because it isn't the best anymore.</FONT> Standard pristine armor will still have the same value to the wearer and provide exactly the same protection; it just happens that something new has come along.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No it means that you just wasted all that time collecting that ebon because you have to do it again.  It wasn't easy getting 7ebon and one cedar and because I used them a couple of weeks(for a lot of people, just days) before this patch was announced they are in all effect worthless because now they have to be replaced by the new armour.  I'd rather the encantments not be added at all if I can't get them put on the armour I already have because it belittles the time and work I put into getting my armour suit.  It just happens that they made something already exists in the game better for everyone other than those who already have it.  joy...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are literally hunderesds of ways to fix this.  here are a few very simple ones:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make it a new rare that is harvestable for the armour componenty(ie not ebon wor whatever you need) so we all start at ground zero. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unattune all armour on patch day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give us the enchantment upgrade for free if we have the armour already attuned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Being around longer is supposed to give you more shots at better stuff not vice versa.  Right now it would mean that if I started playing a month or two later I would have a better chance of having better armour on patch day.  That is ridiculous.  Punishing us for sticking around longer.</DIV>

[Sorano]

I believe WoW gets around this problem by having a non trade slot in the trade window which can be used to enchant things. That would be a fair solution for people who have attuned things and I am sure not that hard to code.

[Vindicis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sorano wrote:<BR>I believe WoW gets around this problem by having a non trade slot in the trade window which can be used to enchant things. That would be a fair solution for people who have attuned things and I am sure not that hard to code. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well this isn't WoW and you aren't an mmorpg coder, so stop making assumptions.  You are NOT getting what you want, plain and simple, dead horse.

[benba]

<DIV>This Dev team need to hire a planning manager</DIV>

[Vrug]

<DIV>OK so I have spent countless hours harvesting, hunting names, etc, etc on top of the 60 gp I spent on having my Ebon Chest and Leggings created and you are trying to tell me that this is not for the adventurers but for the crafters?  So I go back out, either spend the 12 hours harvesting or get lucky and the ebon drops from a mob and I win the Lotto.  I then spend the 60 gp again to get the BP and leggs made with a proc and well I have a useless non enchanted BP and Leggings that I will be able to sell back for like 3-4 gp, not to mention the fact that the old fulginate B/P and leggings cost me 24 gp and I sold them back for a grand total of ooooh 1- 2 gp.    Well at level 50 adventurer I have way less money then my pals that are level 40 plus crafters.  I sit and watch these people spend way to much on a item because they are only level 30 adventures and now you are telling me that this is for them to make cool stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!   So please explain why I can not just have the proc added to my equipment?  Why is it that the adventurer gets the raw deal once again?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a level 23 Weaponsmith also-  which I have not leveled due to the fact that they received the biggest shaft of all from the last crafting patch, so I think it is cool that weaponsmiths may become wanted again but please lets not screw the adventures even more.</DIV>

[Kalendin]

<DIV>Vindicus you have yet too say one thing that anybody cares about..go play with your link-n-logs and let us others try too get soe too do right by those of us that actually spent alot of time making their ebon armor. Many good ideas are being shot out there so shut up sit back and let the big boys talk.</DIV>

[Vindicis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kalendin wrote:<BR> <DIV>Vindicus you have yet too say one thing that anybody cares about..go play with your link-n-logs and let us others try too get soe too do right by those of us that actually spent alot of time making their ebon armor. Many good ideas are being shot out there so shut up sit back and let the big boys talk.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wow, that was witty, my feelings are all hurt now.  Guess what, you still dont get what you want, feel better yet?

[Vobe]

<DIV>I agree with the rest here. My guild has a couple of great tanks. The whole guild worked really hard for the past MONTH to get these guys suited up in Pristine Forged Ebon, and now you are telling us that we want that armor to be enchanted, we need to obtain entirely new suits of it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is not right....</DIV>

[WussyboyTid]

That would be the case but i think it was said that not every piece will have the possibility of enhancements, from what i understand only the legs and bp will be able to be enchanted but still, yeah i agree that you would have a problem if the enhancements were that big of a thing which they arent.  The enhancements as stated in the update notes give BP pieces a possibility of  HOT proc when you are hit and the legs a chance to do extra damage when you are hit.  I doubt the HoT is that signifigant that it would make or break any encounter you fight and an extra damage proc wouldnt do much either, i hardly see how your tank would be any bit [Removed for Content] without the enhancements. <div></div>

[Riply_Anklebiter]

<P>I see no reason what so ever why they cant make this like they did in EQ1 lost dungons of norrath expantion, were you get a rune (in EQ2's case its player made) and go to a device and combine it with your gear. Only real reason is that SoE wants you to do it all over again which blows. I just finshes off and entire suit of Ebon last week. This is not an expantion were you are actualy adding new armor, you are adding inprovements. Think of it like this, if you have multiple magical effects you could add to an item and allow players to remove them via some solvent and then add there newly desired effect how much would that help the crafting comunitee along with no totaly screwing the adventurers. </P> <P>People that say its personal value isnt going down are just wrong. Yes its stats are not going down, but there is more to personal value then stats. Why did we save to get Ebon Armor? Becuase it was the best you could buy. Now the armor we spent countless hours harvesting the ebon or making money to buy it have made a 2nd or 3rd best that you can buy. Yes I realise that an expantion will come out with stuff that is better, thats not the point. Its still Ebon armor!!</P> <P>Also this line about if you a crafter of that class and have your item attuned but are of lvl to combine the stuff you still can, Is a major kick in the pants. Thats basicaly saying anyone that say choose to pick a crafting class out of enjoyment like provisioner or carpenter is totaly screwed on there items that are already attuned.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Fle]

<DIV>You buy a top of the range graphics card and within no time at all a newer model comes out thats better. It dos'nt automatically turn the card you have into junk, it just means it's no longer the best and you have no right to expect to be given the newer model for free.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess soe should just stop adding new and better things now that you have your ebon armour. Now that you have your ebon armour were you going to stop trying to get better !. Of course not. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fleet wrote:<BR> <DIV>You buy a top of the range graphics card and within no time at all a newer model comes out thats better. It dos'nt automatically turn the card you have into junk, it just means it's no longer the best and you have no right to expect to be given the newer model for free.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess soe should just stop adding new and better things now that you have your ebon armour. Now that you have your ebon armour were you going to stop trying to get better !. Of course not. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is not quite the same, it is more like you buy the best graphics card and if you haven't used it yet the manufacturer will add something to it to make it better. If you have used the card eventhough it is the same card the manufacturer will not add the thing that makes your card better. Or like if you opened the box you do not get the better video driver but those with a sealed box get the new super duper video driver. </P> <P>It is good to add things to the game but not good to add improvements to items already in game and not allow all the old items to be improved.</P> <p>Message Edited by Tagga on <span class=date_text>03-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:33 AM</span>

[Riply_Anklebiter]

<DIV> <DIV><<<You buy a top of the range graphics card and within no time at all a newer model comes out thats better. It dos'nt automatically turn the card you have into junk, it just means it's no longer the best and you have no right to expect to be given the newer model for free.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess soe should just stop adding new and better things now that you have your ebon armour. Now that you have your ebon armour were you going to stop trying to get better !. Of course not. >>>></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry thats just a lame excuse. For one this isnt real world were talking about and for two Its not a new piece of armor, its an upgrade to the armor. There are a few of you guys on this thred that im betting arnt high enough lvl to have the gear that costs this much judging by your comments.  If they were to add NEW gear into the game thats better them my ebon no I wouldent expect it given to me. But if you offer upgrades to exsisting items, yes I expect to be able to purchase thous upgrades without scrapping my armor. The people that are getting screwed are the people who have actualy put the most time into the game /boggle. I realy think SoE needs to rethink there priorities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did I plan to stop trying for better armor after Ebone? nope. But this isnt after ebon, its like working my buttoff to get better of the same. Maybe this isnt a big deal if your a scout or whatnot but us tanks if you wanna be the best (atleast from bought goods) your gonna be stuck redoing your fricken armor. The only high lvl players this will make happy are the plat/rare farmering bot groups.</DIV></DIV>

[Fle]

<DIV>I did not say everyone should be handed the newest best items. I just said that it is not true when Moorgard says new and better items do not reduce the value of old items. If you doubt this, get an IQ above zero too. Then you might understand my examples in the posting above.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok einstien. On a personal basis yes this is true...i could buy the newest and best item and then later on something better comes along which i buy therefore reducing the value of the old item to me <.  Or quite possibly that old item could have a lot of sentimental value. Also that old item could be of tremendous value to someone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I remember when i bought my first pc...a top of the range 486. A week later i went past the shop and they had reduced the price and started selling pentiums at the same price. Was i a little annoyed ! yes...but you can't stop progress. The 486 was still fantastic to me even though there was better out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fleetfut.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lvl 40 Illusionst  <----------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Lvl 39 soon to ding 40 Weaponsmith <-------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Fleet on <span class=date_text>03-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:57 AM</span>

[SwordsApprentice]

<P>Well After many weeks and plenty of platinum spend for an ebon armor and like 3 weeks from the last big difference in the economy i am feeling more sad than ever ,i realy consider move on from this game ,Why?</P> <P>First of all i feel that with this , more real paraeconomy will happen ,more real money spend from ppl to buy platinum and who earns platinum in game? farmers? haha think again ppl have spend all those months like 40 or 50 per piece of armor only for the combine ,and i dont count the ebon.</P> <P>If SOE was serious and was respected the ppl that spend their money to play the game the solution was make the attunable and not attunable Ebon or feysteel or whatever usable again as they are ebon or faysteel or cedar whatever rare.</P> <P>Why an Ebon coin can be used for an Armor and the Ebon armor cant be reycle back?</P> <P>Well for the info each piece of ebon armor cost 3 to 4 platinum to the adventurer and sells at 60 silver in the merchant ,Yeah SOE ,DEVS whatever ,this is not a game to win ,its like in real life we throw in fake money fake dollars ,but if we are gaught in RL we end in jail ,here simply we ... the ppl that pay and play a game to win.</P> <P>Still the crafters that SOE loves so much in this game will earn money to have big houses and horses etc or have their alt the best equipment in game ,or others sell platinum for real money (Dollars , Euros) and do this for living while they play the game.</P> <P>Well i cant even think clear ,After having 2 Accounts in SWG 1 in EQ and 1 In EQ 2 ,all i can say thanks SOE for respecting the ppl .</P> <P>Whoever want to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] me out ,do it ,its not worst from what is happening in this game ,i dont care to be [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ed ,but .... up  is another matter.</P> <P>*sigh*</P> <P> </P>

[Lairdragna]

Well I'm glad to know my unattuned breastplate and legs will now be able to be enchanted, thank you.  But I still empathise with those who have rare attuned armor and are getting the proverbial kick squaw in da nuts. <div></div>

[Unmask]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote:<BR>Well I'm glad to know my unattuned breastplate and legs will now be able to be enchanted, thank you. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>How long are you willing to wait before attuning those items though?<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In any case, while I certainly didn't foresee most of the TS changes, I did choose a crafting profession to make my own armor for a reason.  However, that said I think it would be so much easier to be able to enchant a player's existing equipment than having to make a new piece and then enchanting it.</DIV>

[aeio]

My suggestion is many of you just run around naked and not worry about equipment.  It seems the concept of new and improved items coming into the game causes you to fly into a tizzy or launch into a dither. There will continue to be new items, and improvements from now until the game stops existing.  You can't possibly get this bent out of shape every time a better item comes into the game or an improved version of an item you have comes into being.  It is not healthy. <div></div>

[Lairdragna]

I'm currently wearinf pristine forged steel vabguard at 26, so I can't wear my Feysteel for four levels... I'm sure this will be possible by then and I can wear the steel for an extra level or two if need be.  I level slow because I spend a lot of time in merchant making money which allows me to afford luxuries such as Feysteel armor. <div></div>

[gooli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fleet wrote:<BR> <DIV>You buy a top of the range graphics card and within no time at all a newer model comes out thats better. It dos'nt automatically turn the card you have into junk, it just means it's no longer the best and you have no right to expect to be given the newer model for free.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess soe should just stop adding new and better things now that you have your ebon armour. Now that you have your ebon armour were you going to stop trying to get better !. Of course not. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No, it's not the same thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It would be like if you finished your quest for your prismatic weapon(which by all rights is actually easier than collecting 8 rares on your own) and then SOE a week later says "oh by the way, we are releasing a new version of the prismatic weapons but you guys who already have it are not getting the update, too bad.  The new weapon applies a heal over time and reactive damage as well as increased stat buffs.  Those who have the weapon already will get  none of the changes."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And it makes no sense logistically that an enhancement can't be placed on worn armour.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To use your analogy, it would be like you buy the card and the company releases new  driver  software for your video card but tells you if you have opened the box it  </DIV> <DIV>came in, you don't get the new drivers.  You have to buy the same exact card AGAIN just to get the software that COULD work on your card without costing the card maker any money.  Does that sound fair to you.  Would you feel more comfortable paying for another 600 dollar video card in real life?    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And then over time new content will be scaled against this better armour.  SOE is kicking everyone who busted theor butt to get the stuff already in the shins.</DIV><p>Message Edited by goolian on <span class=date_text>03-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:04 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Syanis wrote:<BR> <P>I see an issue with this also. I just dumped in the last week 8 1/2 plat on ebon and now sit nearly broke getting a few ebon pieces made. Now I'm seeing that what I just got is about to be devauled majorly. I got my ebon to have the best armor I can realisticly get. Now I'll be sorely [Removed for Content] if there isn't a way for me to get my new shiny ebon armor that has just been attuned enchanted. I'll see this as yet a midgame nerf to all of us who busted our butts off to get the best we can just to have SoE come and make our stuff obsolete already.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Its still ebon, its still rare, and it still has the same stats.</P> <P>Who cares, it'll be blue the first yellow bub you get after expansion anyway.</P> <P>Besides its just the bp/legs.  I'm sure if you got 6 ebon you can get 2 more.<BR></P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tasazar wrote:<BR>I don't speak up a lot on issues like this, but this is a point I think has a great deal of validity for the high level players.  A level 50 player may have spent many plat to get the crafted ebon armor.   Suddenly, a new form of armor is released and all this money spent on their armor is lost for them to be able to upgrade when the exact same items crafted new can be upgraded.<BR><BR>I am an armorer myself. I would love nothing more for everyone to have to purchase entire sets of new armor from me so I can really rake in the coin, but some players have such a huge investment in this that I see it as a bit unfair.<BR><BR><B>Why not make all crafted items un-attuned after the patch that implements this?</B>  Give all players a chance to upgrade their existing crafted armor.  If they don't wish to do that, they can simply re-attune the items.  Problem solved.  At least this gives the players the choice if they wish to upgrade those items instead of making them obsolete.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>How much do they have to baby everyone?</P> <P>First it was the multiple /respec etc etc.</P> <P>How many people in the game DON'T have the plat to buy even one rare peice, let alone a whole suit?</P> <P>How about we just GIVE them their own rare set.</P> <P>This armor is different, its not the same.  Its not even the whole suit.  It takes an entirely new rare component to make.</P> <P>If they REALLY want to enchant their attuned armor that bad, they can grind TS or find a new rare.</P> <P>No one is guaranteed anything in this game, what a bunch of crybabies.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[SwordsApprentice]

<DIV> <DIV>Bad example mate</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Go get a ferrari made by Dino even it is slower and not so sexy as the new one you pay more .</DIV> <DIV>Also you get a ferrari for some money yeah you dont attune it and then you destroy it to get the new model, you sell never loosing money and pay for the new model.</DIV> <DIV>Maybe horses in game must be sold to merchants lower than 55 silver that is the price to sell a pristine forged ebon bp ,because faster horses will be in game ,what a joke.</DIV> <DIV>Anyway economy in game ......</DIV></DIV>

[Reiano]

Glad I waited to spend my money on ebon except the bp was waiting till prices droped. <div></div>

[CerraWhisperwind]

THANK YOU for not only adding new recipies for tradeskillers but for not letting people upgrade their existing equipment.  Forcing unatuned new items to be part of the recipie drives much more business to the crafters than allowing upgrading of attuned gear would. Not to mention it would be a coding nightmare to jury rig some way to allow no trade (attuned) items to be given to the crafter or otherwise used in the recipie when the owner was not the craftsman.  We don't need more bugs, thanks. <div></div>

[A]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Riply_Anklebiter wrote:<DIV><DIV><<DIV align=right><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I guess soe should just stop adding new and better things now that you have your ebon armour. Now that you have your ebon armour were you going to stop trying to get better !. Of course not. >>>></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Sorry thats just a lame excuse. For one this isnt real world were talking about and for two Its not a new piece of armor, its an upgrade to the armor. There are a few of you guys on this thred that im betting arnt high enough lvl to have the gear that costs this much judging by your comments.  <STRONG>If they were to add NEW gear into the game thats better them my ebon no I wouldent expect it given to me. But if you offer upgrades to exsisting items, yes I expect to be able to purchase thous upgrades without scrapping my armor. The people that are getting screwed are the people who have actualy put the most time into the game /boggle. I realy think SoE needs to rethink there priorities</STRONG>.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Did I plan to stop trying for better armor after Ebone? nope. But this isnt after ebon, its like working my buttoff to get better of the same. Maybe this isnt a big deal if your a scout or whatnot but us tanks if you wanna be the best (atleast from bought goods) your gonna be stuck redoing your fricken armor. The only high lvl players this will make happy are the plat/rare farmering bot groups.</DIV></DIV><HR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> I simply dont understand the difference.   This IS adding something new to the game, Period.  In EQ1 the Lunar Fungi Tunic was an upgrade to the regular fungi tunic, should everyone who had the regular one been automatically given the Lunar one just becuase they put in alot of time to get the original?  Of course not.  The enhancements are a new part of the game and in essence make a totally NEW item, so it is crazy to think you have to be given the upgrade for free.  Its funny that the high end folks who are always on these boards complaining about SoE "giving" more casual people things to make the game more fun for them are now the main ones [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing to be "given" this.  Also I highlighted all of the above for your comment about the time you have put in and that it should be a priority for SoE to give you what you want becuase of it.  My account was created on November 8, 2004 and is still active. Yep that means no matter if Ive only played 5 mins since then I still have and will continue to pay exactly the same amount as you, which is the bottom line for SoE or any for profit company.

[Mat]

<P>I don't think able to upgrade all current existing armor is a good idea but at least allow us to have a choice to unattune and let a guildie armorer upgrades them, lets say 1 or 2 armor parts because we are continously forced to slam alot of cash into the dustbin since the the attune system gone live, and I don't think ppl would trust SOE anymore if they force us to dump more hard earned plat on these new items again. </P> <P>Some ppl who are earning several plats a day really need to understand that making money isn't that easy for ordinary players.  So many might end up buying plats from you-know-who in order to get their gear up to date. :p</P>

[Riply_Anklebiter]

<DIV>Aaz<----Were do you come off with the idea we want something for free? I dont want anything for free I just want the same options as someone that is just now buying there ebon. I would still have to pay for the magical add to my armor and most likely have to pay for it being actualy put on the gear. People that already have Ebone armor wouldent be getting anything free at all, but the way it is now if you want the magical effects and happend to be one of the people that spent the most time in the game you have to pay twice for the same piece of gear then add the cost of the magical effect. If you dident actualy read what was said, this whole proccess starts once you have made a pristine ebon or whatever other piece of armor then you add the crap to it. Well I already have 5 pieces of Pristine Ebon armor [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] should I have to start at ground zero becuase attuning was added in? It would be different if the magical effect was actualy part of the proccess of making the BP or legs, but its not. You still have to make the pristine complete armor piece which you could sell in that state then the buyer could in theory decide wether or not they wanna pay someone to add the effect as long as its not attuned. So basicaly what your saying to me is that the exact same piece of armor that happens to have a later creation date should be able to get the effect were as the guy that has worn his armor cant? what a bunch of crap.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Riply_Anklebiter on <SPAN class=date_text>03-20-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:16 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Riply_Anklebiter on <SPAN class=date_text>03-20-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:18 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Riply_Anklebiter on <span class=date_text>03-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:18 AM</span>

[Fle]

<DIV> <DIV>No, it's not the same thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It would be like if you finished your quest for your prismatic weapon(which by all rights is actually easier than collecting 8 rares on your own) and then SOE a week later says "oh by the way, we are releasing a new version of the prismatic weapons but you guys who already have it are not getting the update, too bad.  The new weapon applies a heal over time and reactive damage as well as increased stat buffs.  Those who have the weapon already will get  none of the changes."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And it makes no sense logistically that an enhancement can't be placed on worn armour.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To use your analogy, it would be like you buy the card and the company releases new  driver  software for your video card but tells you if you have opened the box it  </DIV> <DIV>came in, you don't get the new drivers.  You have to buy the same exact card AGAIN just to get the software that COULD work on your card without costing the card maker any money.  Does that sound fair to you.  Would you feel more comfortable paying for another 600 dollar video card in real life?    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And then over time new content will be scaled against this better armour.  SOE is kicking everyone who busted theor butt to get the stuff already in the shins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>---------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>New drivers are released to fix bugs and compatibility issues amongst other things, which they are obliged to do. It's a completely diferent scenario. They don't make your graphics card do anything different to what it did before. You still have the same graphics card and if you want a better one you have to go and buy one.</DIV></DIV>

[Silversnow]

<blockquote><hr>Fleet wrote:<DIV> <DIV>No, it's not the same thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It would be like if you finished your quest for your prismatic weapon(which by all rights is actually easier than collecting 8 rares on your own) and then SOE a week later says "oh by the way, we are releasing a new version of the prismatic weapons but you guys who already have it are not getting the update, too bad.  The new weapon applies a heal over time and reactive damage as well as increased stat buffs.  Those who have the weapon already will get  none of the changes."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And it makes no sense logistically that an enhancement can't be placed on worn armour.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To use your analogy, it would be like you buy the card and the company releases new  driver  software for your video card but tells you if you have opened the box it  </DIV> <DIV>came in, you don't get the new drivers.  You have to buy the same exact card AGAIN just to get the software that COULD work on your card without costing the card maker any money.  Does that sound fair to you.  Would you feel more comfortable paying for another 600 dollar video card in real life?    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And then over time new content will be scaled against this better armour.  SOE is kicking everyone who busted theor butt to get the stuff already in the shins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>---------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>New drivers are released to fix bugs and compatibility issues amongst other things, which they are obliged to do. It's a completely diferent scenario. They don't make your graphics card do anything different to what it did before. You still have the same graphics card and if you want a better one you have to go and buy one.</DIV></DIV><hr></blockquote>This was a REALLY bad idea when you chose the Quest reference. There are quests now that give GOLD and 20 slot boxes as a reward. I did majority of these back when i got... 4 silver. So you can wait in line behind everyone that DID have quest rewards changed on them and got no compensation. It would be nice if they could compensate me but if they can't then whatever.

[SageMarrow]

<P>hmm, so im not crazy after all...</P> <P>yet again i feel special in the worst way...</P>

[Neokles]

<DIV>Hey Gage, are you looking for work within SOE ? Everytime i see you post, your are bashing other ppl that posted before you,  can i  add ppl to ignore on boards so I do not need to see their posts? You are getting really annoying.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Neokles on <span class=date_text>03-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:49 PM</span>

[Seolta]

<P>Ok...</P> <P>I don't need any analogies to illustrate why this is a bad move.</P> <P>Simply put, it's just part2 of the campaign to rob adventurers in order to make crafters $$$.</P> <P>Let's face it, most of the dedicated crafters out there are only motivated by $$$. The last big crafting update took away some of the earning power of most crafters and all but a few vacated the crafting instances. Lately it's been low levels tinkering away in near empty trade instances. NOW here we go again...massive fortunes to be made by re-equipping nearly everyone they ALREADY made money off of.</P> <P>If we adventurers had gotten some kind of warning about this it wouldn't have been so bad...but no, it's a stealth move by SoE.</P> <P>The PROPER timing for a change like this would have been to co-incide it with a new tier of harvestable raws(ie. the first expansion). That way adventuerers who would ALREADY be replacing full suits/crafted weapons etc. could simply choose the enchanted variety for a little extra cost. IMO SoE pushed this up to placate the crafters who were sad because they weren't turning multi plat profit on a daily basis. (or for the non-armor/weaponsmith/jewelers - the ability to make the kind of money those professions were making).</P> <P>Winners - Crafters, Plat Farmers, IGE</P> <P>Losers - Adventurers (yes, we get slightly better items but the replacement costs far exceed the benefit)</P>

[Motl]

<P>It would be nice if attuned items were tradable, however, I realize that probably wouldn't work with the items the way they are probably coded.  I know there would have been a problem in EQ1, but I'm not sure if they rectified that problem in EQ2 or not.  Aside from that, it would be nice if items that could possibly be enchanted were unattunded for everyone when the patch goes live, allowing those who have attuned them to have them enchanted.  Some MAY use this as an opportunity to sell already attuned items, but I don't really see this as a long-term problem.  It's erroring on the side of the customer.  Considering it wasn't that long ago that all craftable items weren't unattunable, I think the damage to the economy would be very little and make a whole lot of people happy (or more accurately keep a whole lot of peopel from becoming frustrated).</P> <P>Of course another option would be to make the final combine able to be done by the end-user.  Alchemist makes the potion thingy, gives it to an armorer which makes the shield enchantment potion which then gives it to the end user, and the end user takes that shield enchantment potion and applies it to his shield in a forge as a no-fail combine.</P>

[Chou]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div>  <div></div> <div></div> <div>We don't plan to introduce an unattune function. My point in the chat last night was that these new recipes aren't about giving every adventurer an easy upgrade to their gear. The recipes are being added to give artisans more cool stuff to make.</div><hr></blockquote>Why can't it be made so your able to trade attuned items, but it will have 0 stats and ac for anyone else who tries to put it on (Edit: and label items already attuned as such so people won't get confused and buy items that would be useless to them)?  That way we could still work on existing items while still keeping items more or less, untradable.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Chouji on <span class=date_text>03-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:15 PM</span>

[IkkyScar]

<P>Does Sony realize how bad the economy is right now?  At 50 there is really no way to make money unless you want to go grind exp for nothing other then the hopes of a chest.   Now you're telling me if I want the procs I have to go out and buy a COMPLETE NEW SUIT OF ARMOR?  Are you kidding me?!  I have a full suit of t5 light armor, and now if I want procs I not only can't sell the items to anything but the vendor (which gives me like 2g a piece), but I have to go get 5-7 more t5 rares AND pay a crafter for each piece?</P> <P> </P> <P>What a crock.</P>

[Tauch]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gage-Mikel wrote:<p>How much do they have to baby everyone?</p> <p>First it was the multiple /respec etc etc.</p> <p>How many people in the game DON'T have the plat to buy even one rare peice, let alone a whole suit?</p> <p>How about we just GIVE them their own rare set.</p> <p>This armor is different, its not the same.  Its not even the whole suit.  It takes an entirely new rare component to make.</p> <p>If they REALLY want to enchant their attuned armor that bad, they can grind TS or find a new rare.</p> <p>No one is guaranteed anything in this game, what a bunch of crybabies. </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Babying? The multiple /respec were from at least three mistakes on their part. First was the ambiguous descriptions for the abilities, even after the first time they 'clarified' them. The second was the poorly written patch note which made it sound like we could /respec to our heart's content. Third was one's stats not changing when /respec'ing, leading to confusion when picking new stats. How many people don't have one plat after buying a full set of rare crafted armor? Why don't we just up what's best every other week, you know, since it doesn't matter? The armor is probably just about as different after the enchantment as, say, taking The Titanic and putting rocket boosters on it. It's still the best luxury cruise liner of its time, but now it's faster than anything in the water. The components aren't rare, they're uncommon. And, as it stands, it's an uncommon on top of a rare. It may not be the whole suit, but you have to take weapons into account, as well. I think I missed the news where they were letting us change our tradeskills? That might be because they aren't. We're guaranteed a lot in this game, like the chance at being the best if we work for it. Now those of us who *are* the best-equipped have to work, I'm hesistant to say twice as hard, but with the economy in the game as it is it may very well be, as those who are coming up behind us. There's a lot of venom coming from a person whom I can only say has *two* pieces of T5 rare-crafted items. I have 14(16 if you count the non-pristines I've had), 9 of them being relegated to 'second-best' even after the equipment I've gotten from the past month's raiding, heh. I'm glad you like being the donkey following the carrot, but I'm *not* content to have the carrot figuratively ripped out of my mouth after I've gotten it. Thank you.</span><div></div>

[Covvo]

<DIV>This is what happens when u make everything attunable...not so easy to make changes is it devs? :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like the pay gold to unattune items idea <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Merchants who do that should charge a relatively decent fee, like twice the sell-back value, just for crafted stuff.  That should pretty much solve most problems <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Kilo]

<div></div><div></div>Glad to know SOE values it's customer's time spent in the game so much as to screw everyone who spent the time and money to get full rare armors totally and say "that 10 plat you spent on ebon means [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]". Total crap. <div></div><p> Do you think it's EASY to make 10 plat again to buy more ebon? It sure as hell isn't. <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Kilopy on <span class=date_text>03-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:53 PM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Neokles wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hey Gage, are you looking for work within SOE ? Everytime i see you post, your are bashing other ppl that posted before you,  can i  add ppl to ignore on boards so I do not need to see their posts? You are getting really annoying.  <FONT color=#ffff00>No, I want to work for Jello, as a test taster.  I do have the opportunity to be a Blizzard GM for WoW also, but I like my current career.  Thanks for your concern <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Bashing, hmm I guess.  Depends on the post.  Nah you can't ignore people on the boards, unfortunately.  I have a list I'd like to ignore also.  Opinions vary, luckily for me annoying you doesn't affect me at all.</FONT><BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taucher wrote:<BR><SPAN>I'm glad you like being the donkey following the carrot, but I'm *not* content to have the carrot figuratively ripped out of my mouth after I've gotten it. Thank you.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You already have the enchanted armor?  OH, no you don't.  You have the pristine rare.  They are different, and require different components.  So nothing is being "ripped out of your mouth" as you'll still have your t5 rare after the patch tomorrow, stats/AC intact.</P> <P>Oh and I don't have T5 rare armor because it isn't worth the 1.5pp~2pp a peice it goes for on my server.  I'd rather have the money for t6 stuff after expansion.<BR></P>

[Tag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taucher wrote:<BR><SPAN>I'm glad you like being the donkey following the carrot, but I'm *not* content to have the carrot figuratively ripped out of my mouth after I've gotten it. Thank you.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You already have the enchanted armor?  OH, no you don't.  You have the pristine rare.  They are different, and require different components.  So nothing is being "ripped out of your mouth" as you'll still have your t5 rare after the patch tomorrow, stats/AC intact.</P> <P>Oh and I don't have T5 rare armor because it isn't worth the 1.5pp~2pp a peice it goes for on my server.  I'd rather have the money for t6 stuff after expansion.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Bah the way SOE is messing around with their paying customers there may not be an expansion the servers are almost empty already or haven't you noticed?

[SageMarrow]

<P>1.) SOE is trying hard to make fixing the economy its first priority so that it can be added to and twinked but never overhauled again, while the fact still remains that these things such as attunement and thier plans for tradeskilling shouldve been mapped out long before release...same applies to the class balance and such. They have a "we will work it out after release" mentality thats killing them. Otherwise, pick up eq2 in a year or so and go to town. At that point, it will probably be a great game , post beta persay. which further illustrates the presence of business first in this game. We hate eq1 references and this is NOT eq1, but at the same time one would assume that they wouldve worked out the core of tradeskilling and class balance before worrying about ANY thing else. Thats what keeps players playing/paying, functionality, i can easily ASSUME that players wouldnt require 1 new zone for anything until next month if the game was perfected at its core prior to launch. But then again, if these things were taken care of prior to luanch, they would be free to load down the game with content on top of content since they wouldnt be worried with class based bug fixes, balance issues, and tradeskilling economic balance.</P> <P>2.) Gage is that way every where he goes. he thinks that anyone who has a problem with a change by soe or the present state of the world is a whining ingrate. and that just because you pay for a game doesnt mean that you should care, you should just sit back for a screwed up ride of ups and downs and have no voice in development.</P> <P>3.) SOE needs to understand that we expect ALOT out of them in these situations. Not just some half baked approach to fixes and accomodations so you dont lose a chunk of subscribers. We assume that you guys have been through the fire long enough to know what players want and how to do it functionally and please every one at the same time after all this time.  SOE has sole control over what happens and what doesnt happen. When you uproot and replace then dig it up then plant it back, over and over again, that is a sign of being unorganized and without definate pathing for this game and that you are merely flying by the seat of your pants, which is fine, im sure you all consider yourselves a new game and that we are supposed to have new game problems, but those of us who waited 2 years for the game, those of us whove come from everquest 1 roots, those of us who migrated in from other games...BELIEVED THE HYPE. that this game was the end all be all in the MMO genre for the next 5 years. I did, and most everyone else did prior to launch. We expected perfection on every level (or at least most), and while you may say thats an unrealistic expectation, we look upon your experience with one of the best mmo's to date in everquest 1 and assume that there is nothing you havent seen or experienced in your time as programmers and developers, and wonder as to why we are constantly seeing the same mistakes repeatedly.</P> <P>So thats my 2cent  </P> <DIV>(edit<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> that brings me to another thought as well, this was supposed to be: </DIV> <DIV>         Everquest 2: the sequel to the original fantasy online MMO </DIV> <DIV>         Not Everquest 2: we have the name and we have the license to use it to get new players... but thats the only corrolation</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now i personally dont have any problems coping with reality on this topic, im merely stating what and where i see the core of SOE's problems coming from. They constantly comment on wants/desires/emotional attachment/issues, but I too have found myself in an emotional tizzy because of some of the things that have transpired post launch. Not because i want *MY* way, or because my wants and desires are getting in the way... moreso = because i didnt expect to have to go through the same thing again for another 5 years to get the game that was **promised**.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks..</DIV><p>Message Edited by SageMarrow on <span class=date_text>03-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:26 PM</span>

[WussyboyTid]

<div></div>dude you people are acting like the ebon armor you currently wear, with the new enhacements, assuming there was a way for you to get them put on your armor, would be the best armor out there.  The thing is, ITS NOT!  Ebon armor is the best thing out there just the same way that Adept 3 spells are the best spells out there.  They arent becaue there are master 1 spells and at the same time Master armor with much better stats and effects/procs that make the new enhancements look like nothing.  There are Master pieces of armor with supperiour stats and ac on them AND they also have a haste proc that gives you a 20% haste with a 12% chance when you are hit.  The enhancements i doubt will ever be anything of the same quality as the procs on the master items.  Its just not gonna happen.  I have my full suit of Pristine Augmented llight armor, minus my master drop hat and jboots(which are soon to be replaced with golden Efreeti boots) and do you see me complaining that i cant get my armor, armor i went to many raids and lotto'd to win and traded a Monsoon sword of swiftwind from Sanctum of fear for 2 other pelts, enchanted??? Hell no, because the procs on them are crap anyway and dont help you much at all.  Even the tanks who are going to get hit arent gonna care much when they get a Heal over time to go off, something which i dobut gets even close to comparing to the healing power of my Heirophantic Genesis Adept 3 or even the HoT cast everytime i cast my Verdant Rapture Master 1.  At most its prob a HoT equal to the adept 3 version of Chloroplast which, honestly, aint gonna mean crap when you are raiding and getting hit for 1k+ when you do get hit.  Nobody ever "promised" you that your rare armor would always be the best and that after you get the ebons crafted into pieces of armor and attune that armor you will have armor that will be the best.  Hell they dont even "promise" you that your pristine crafted ebon armor will even stay the exact same stats overtime, but hey they arent changing the stats on it they are giving crafters a chance to get a little more cash by adding a crappy HoT or DS to the armor that will be so negligable that the fact that people are whining that they dont get the Proc too shouldnt be.  Those of you who tank raid mobs already are not going to have any harder time tanking said raid mob after they add the enchantments unless they do something to the raid mob completely separate from the armor.  Even having another tank in your guild who happens to have slacked and isnt able to get their ebon armor made till after the enchantment patch will not have any more ac then you do with the same armor, any difference in ac will be caused by the pieces of armor you have that they dont or vice versa.  So stop acting like its the end of the world and live with it because nobody ever said everything you do in a MMO is soposed to be easy or fun or make everyone happy.  <div></div>

[crumpledmonkey]

has anyone even found out if ebon armor is one of the pristine items that will be getting the proc enhancment???

[Drael]

<P>[Salesman] Nice to see you!<SPAN>  </SPAN>How’s that new computer working for you that I sold you last week?</P> <P>[Customer] Great!<SPAN>  I spent a lot of time saving to make it the best I can.  </SPAN>I just read that there is a new video card that came out that’s an upgrade to the one in my machine...</P> <P>[Salesman] Sure is!<SPAN>  The new video cards j</SPAN>ust came in today!</P> <P>[Customer] Great,  I brought my machine with me and was wondering if you could install it, as I do not have the skill to install it myself.</P> <P>[Salesman] Ooooh, sorry.<SPAN>  </SPAN>we can only upgrade a machine if you buy it from us new and you haven’t used it yet.</P> <P>[Customer] What?!<SPAN>  </SPAN>Oh, I see. Yeah, that’s pretty funny.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You almost had me there...</P> <P>[Salesman] No, I’m serious.</P> <P>[Customer] What?!<SPAN>  -s</SPAN>igh and long pause- Well, I guess I could just give my machine to my friend because he really needs one and I have always wanted to help him out.</P> <P>[Salesman] Ooooh, sorry.<SPAN>   </SPAN>Since you have used the machine it will no longer respond to anyone else.</P> <P>[Customer] You’ve got to be kidding!<SPAN>  </SPAN>Okaaayy, what if I sell my current machine back to you and get a new one?</P> <P>[Salesman] Sure, that would work!<SPAN>  </SPAN>Let’s see here,<SPAN>  </SPAN>$1,400.00 for the new box and video card minus the 2$ we are giving for your machine comes to $1,398.00.</P> <P>[Customer] Two dollars?!<SPAN>  </SPAN>How can you justify only giving me two dollars?</P> <P>[Salesman] We are the only place that will buy them and, of course,  you remember me mentioning that it will only work for you now...</P> <P>[Customer] This is a load of $%^&.<SPAN>  </SPAN>So, if I want the upgrade, I have to buy the EXACT SAME machine again?</P> <P>[Salesman] Yes!<SPAN>  </SPAN>Now, you understand!</P> <P>[Customer] -sits in stunned silence-</P> <P>[Salesman]  So, how would you like to pay for that?...</P>

[Unmask]

<P>First of all, it is one thing to have attuned items that other players can't wear but this seems to be going too far.  Rares have always been attunable so that's not really the issue here.  But take me and a 50th lvl monk.  We both wear rare T5 light armor.  Because our gear is attuned to us, only we can wear it.  I can enchant my gear but the monk, a 12th level craftsman cannot and never will be able to.  All these analogies to cars and computers miss the point, if they even had one.  This is a game.</P> <P>Anyway, I warn people who ask me to make them rare T5 armor about the pending changes with enchantments and that they attune at their own risk.  I've had a few people hold back, but ebon is a lot more money than rare T5 pelts and roots so you are not talking the same level of expense for tailor made items so maybe thats why people are still getting them.</P> <P>The devs have not really been clear yet on what will be enchantable, just how rare the ability to enchant will be or how good/bad the enchantments will be.  If it turns out that all this hand wringing was over a 50 point HoT proc then I think the issue will be dead.  If it is a 5k proc I'd expect it to be nerfed.  I don't know which would be worse.  I hope they do very a thoroough test.</P> <P>And not to belabor the point, while crafters don't and shouldn't expect to compete with items in master chests, I also don't think SoE quite understands what sort of gear players are really looking for.  Tanks of course want items that will proc heals.  Do casters?  I can't make a shoulder piece with +INT but I looted a very nice one off a solo mob (no master chest).  Even if my shoulder piece was enchantable with a heal proc, would the caster really want it over one with +INT?</P>

[Dashofpepp]

<DIV>Oh no....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I finally got a full set of pristine feysteel chainmail made last night.  I attuned and equipped it.... ....so I won't be able to enchant it?</DIV>

[Drael]

<P>The analogies do have a pupose even if they miss the point you would like to make.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Some people do not see the underlying principles in a situation unless you can show them an example of how a certain way of thinking could affect them.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The reply you will get from some people is that, since it’s just a game, the affects do not scale to real life situations.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I agree with that, but since it’s just a game, shouldn’t it be easier to uphold the principle?<SPAN>  </SPAN>In the end, if you would not want to be treated that way in real life, I don’t think you would like to pay to be treated like that in a game, no matter how minor the affect.</P>

[Ibis]

for those calling me a whiner.  I have 4 pieces of fabled metal plate.  I'm close to pieces 5 and 6.  I could care less what they do to ebon since within a month I'll probably be just wearing the pants.  I'm here supporting those who just spent 5p on ebon legs and who now will go and purchase new ebon legs will probably be sold for 5.5-6p.  Yes they did just waste money if their armor can suddenly be upgraded substantially for a fraction of the total cost.  Artisans would lose nothing from a system allowing you to enhance currently attuned equipment that someone else owns.  They still stand to gain the business of the extra charge minus the alchemist's fee.  That business didn't even exist before this patch so how can they lose it?  Some of the opponents here are no doubt artisans themselves who want to be able to sell Jim 11.5-12p worth of ebon legs rather than 5.5-6p.  But most are going to be people in their 30, 40s, etc. that have yet to suit up in their final suit and can just level past their current tier to the new equipment.  This is a sad display of human behavior and its seen in too many threads where people want to draw the line between the haves and have-nots. I say once more, 1 star Moorgard.  There is no excuse for slacking in providing artisans the tools to do their job that was spoken on before release.  I knew from the moment I got into beta and didn't find the ability that trouble was going to be down the road somewhere.  I don't doubt some of the devs are capable of that same foresight so I'm wondering what the hell is going on here. <div></div>

[Trei]

["... Of course another option would be to make the final combine able to be done by the end-user.  Alchemist makes the potion thingy, gives it to an armorer which makes the shield enchantment potion which then gives it to the end user, and the end user takes that shield enchantment potion and applies it to his shield in a forge as a no-fail combine. ..."] Nah, just skip that armorer step. alchemist make magic proc sticker end-user paste magic proc sticker on armor done Then no crafter can complain about the return of dependency on alchemists. <div></div>

[Ay]

<DIV>Making old equipment obsolete in MMO's is nothing new at all. The only odd thing about this time is that they dont require you to purchase an expansion to make it obsolete, this is done in a free patch <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd keep in mind, when camping rares for 100+ hours for that uber suit, that no-matter-what your gear is going to be completely obsolete by the next real expansion. This is part of the business plan of all MMO's that I know of. You need the expansion to maintain Ubality <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  -  It's up to you to decide if you think that 100+ hours of camping is worth the work for temporary uber-ness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, i need to add though that making it so that SOME people who HAPPEN to be the correct artisan craft CAN enchant their 15pp+ armor is very simply LAZY programming. It's only like that, i'm guessing, because it was easier to make it that way and/or they forgot about that sort of circumstance. Lazy Lazy peeps.. unfortunately adding more imbalance to the game.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ayun on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:30 AM</span>

[CerraWhisperwind]

To enchant magic items you need brand new pristine quality materials.  This concept is a staple of fantasy gaming.  If it has been used (attuned) it is no longer brand new and therefore no longer enchantable.  Please remove the ability to enchant your own attuned gear, the recipie should only accept unattuned from anyone. Those little nicks and dents you get from using the item makes it slightly not perfect anymore and only perfection will hold the enchantment.  Otherwise, why require pristine quality in the first place? <div></div>

[Ay]

<DIV>I agree they should remove the ability to enchant your own attuned gear..  but guess what.. they rushed the patch.. no time for us to even give much comment on that.. no sir <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So basically, all those with attuned gear who happen to be of the right tradeskill will be Enchanting their gear ASAP <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  This will all happen before SOE has time to fix it in another patch anyway.. i mean the patch is happening right now that allows for this imbalance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess an armorcrafter who spent 20pp on an Ebon suit and has it attuned won't have to come up with another 20+pp for an ebon suit. While Adventuring Joe is just SoL. Seems about right, reward the rich even more <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Drael]

<P>Ayun poste:</P> <P>Making old equipment obsolete in MMO's is nothing new at all. The only odd thing about this time is that they dont require you to purchase an expansion to make it obsolete, this is done in a free patch</P> <DIV>---------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P>Right, but taking existing equipment and giving some people the option to upgrade and not others is probably a fairly rare occurrence in MMOs for a good reason.<SPAN>  </SPAN></P> <P>I do not believe for one instant that SOE did not see this coming.<SPAN>  </SPAN>With all the experience on the development team, they had to know this would aggravate some people.</P> <P>Currently they have taken the “we will do nothing” stance.<SPAN>  </SPAN>In a past situation that I will not name because I don’t want to beat that dead <EM>horse</EM>, they took that same stance and then reversed it.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The reason for the reversal is that it had become a constant thorn in their side that was not going to go away because there was the potential for every new player in the game to say “Hey, wait a minute, this doesn’t seem right” and come and post on the boards which starts the whole war over again.<SPAN>  </SPAN></P> <P>Is the rare armor fiasco different?<SPAN>  </SPAN>Very.<SPAN>  </SPAN>It will eventually go away and the number of players is potentially small.<SPAN>  </SPAN>New players are not affected by it, nor are the players that do not have any rare armor.<SPAN>  </SPAN>And, with a new expansion or raid drops, a lot of the people that own rare crafted items will have those replaced and it won’t be a factor for them.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I think they are taking a calculated risk.<SPAN>  </SPAN>They will only have to endure the feedback from this for so long and then it disappears.<SPAN>  </SPAN></P> <P>I enjoy the game enough that this will only be a bump in the road.<SPAN>  </SPAN>What’s disturbing is that it’s a situation where they could make things right for everyone but the effort isn’t being made...</P></DIV>

[Unmask]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draelan wrote:<BR> <P>The analogies do have a pupose even if they miss the point you would like to make.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Some people do not see the underlying principles in a situation unless you can show them an example of how a certain way of thinking could affect them.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The reply you will get from some people is that, since it’s just a game, the affects do not scale to real life situations.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I agree with that, but since it’s just a game, shouldn’t it be easier to uphold the principle?<SPAN>  </SPAN>In the end, if you would not want to be treated that way in real life, I don’t think you would like to pay to be treated like that in a game, no matter how minor the affect.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The point is that attuning items in RL (custom tailored suits or fitted golf clubs) is significantly different than the concept in EQ2 where it is a magical property (meaning it is an arbitrary game rule not bound by the laws of our reality).  Otherwise I'd be able to hand it to a crafter even if he couldn't wear it.  I'm not saying I agree with the way attuning works, but that's how it is now.</P> <P>And yes there is a problem with the system if I can enchant my own attuned gear but I cannot attune the same gear on a monk who also cannot attune his own gear because he is a provisioner and not a tailor.  So while it's true that if you remove my ability to enchant my own gear the consistency problem goes away, it is at the cost of more unhappy players (namely me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).  Instead, make attuning work the way it is intended.  The "attuned" property simply means only I can wear an item so it should have the property "Only equippable by Clint".  Since I can sell it to an NPC merchant there is no logical reason why I can't hand it to someone else, even if that person can't equip it.</P> <P>Regarding perfect items being enchanted, that's one huge leap of logic.  Currently I can take a non-perfect item (gashed augmented belt or frayed linen afghan) and make an enchantable piece of equipment (perfect).  If I can turn a non-perfect item into a perfect item (using your logic) there is no reason why I can't do the same for a used pristine piece of gear.  Especially when that used piece of gear is identical to its unattuned counterpart and is identical whether it is hot off the loom or has been mended 100 times.  Therefore if I can make something from a non perfect state there is no logical reason why I can't enchant it from a used pristine state.</P> <P>I still have no idea computers and cars have any relevance.  Used cars and computers are bought and sold every day.  All changes to them are reversible so the concept of attuning doesn't apply.  Most companies offer discounts and/or price protection in the event a new version comes out shortly after you buy your soon to be "obsolete" model.  Most of the examples just don't make sense to me.</P>

[Drael]

<DIV>We agree that the way it is implemented isn't quite right.  You are looking at it from an in-game perspective and, for example, how it's illogical to not be able to hand it to another player to have the enhancement made.  I'm specifically trying to stay away from presenting my view in that manner because as soon as you do, you will have people start pointing out that there are a lot of things that don't make sense in the game but they are needed for balance or are instrumental in the game running (banks, chat, zones, etc) and then the point gets lost.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point does not have to do with game mechanics or balance.  They are punishing the people that have managed to already get the rare harvest armor/weapons and rewarding those that are either lucky enough to be in the appropriate trade skill or those that have not had any made yet.  When you apply those base principles (punish those that have achieved something and not others that are lucky or just haven't got there yet) to real world examples they seem absurd, and they are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, in the end, we just presenting the same conclusion from two different views, which is cool.</DIV>

[Tauch]

<span><blockquote><hr>You already have the enchanted armor?  OH, no you don't.  You have the pristine rare.  They are different, and require different components.  So nothing is being "ripped out of your mouth" as you'll still have your t5 rare after the patch tomorrow, stats/AC intact. <p>Oh and I don't have T5 rare armor because it isn't worth the 1.5pp~2pp a peice it goes for on my server.  I'd rather have the money for t6 stuff after expansion.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> <span>:robotmad: 'Different components'? MY existing pristine rare, if trade-skillers were able to touch it(I know *mobs* can, and menders can), plus an *uncommon* resource = completely different? Are you daft? What I worked for, the best armor there was, IS being ripped out of my mouth. Instead of a modicum of effort for an uncommon resource, now I have to *go and get a rare resource again* to be on top of the game. I expect upgrades, but I expect them to be logical. I expect upgrades with adventure packs and expansions(this particular one is independent of them both, even if the patch coincides with the adventure pack release date). I don't expect having things change *just a little bit*, taking an existing item made from an existing recipe if it hasn't been 'attuned'(SOE never had a suit tailored after some weight gain, I suppose), tacking on a upgrade and now it's in a league of its own whenever SOE feels like it? Please. I don't care how big the upgrades are, it's the principle of the thing. Have fun with your tier 6 stuff after a couple of months and 5 or 6 changes when SOE decides all willy-nilly to render the premium stuff that you bought for obsolete and unupgradable. It's a slippery-slope. How much work do I have to do before I can rest until the next expansion? Heh. </span></span><div></div>

[CerraWhisperwind]

You take a certain risk when you are an early adopter.  The first people to get something usually pay more for an inferior product than do the people who wait.  In MMORPGs the early people often get benifits from imbalances that are fixed as those same early people reveal them, such as not loosing their rare torque to the glowing black stone quest.  Sometimes, however, that balance falls the other way, like in the case of the improved quest rewards and now the case of the new recipies for armors.  Just as there is no way they can go back and adjust people who benifited from broken game mechanics, there is no way they can 'fix' this without negating a huge part of their economy fix.  If they allowed everyone to unattune their items, even once, it would case a lot of problems with people suddenly reselling armor they no longer want instead of it going out of the economy like it should now.  It would also set a bad precedent for future problems of this nature.  There might as well not be any attunement at all if every time something new comes out they unatune everyone's items. Six months from now nobody will even remember this anyway. <div></div>

[Tag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CerraWhisperwind wrote:<BR>You take a certain risk when you are an early adopter.  The first people to get something usually pay more for an inferior product than do the people who wait.  In MMORPGs the early people often get benifits from imbalances that are fixed as those same early people reveal them, such as not loosing their rare torque to the glowing black stone quest.  Sometimes, however, that balance falls the other way, like in the case of the improved quest rewards and now the case of the new recipies for armors.  Just as there is no way they can go back and adjust people who benifited from broken game mechanics, there is no way they can 'fix' this without negating a huge part of their <FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>economy fix</FONT>.  If they allowed everyone to unattune their items, even once, it would case a lot of problems with people suddenly reselling armor they no longer want instead of it going out of the economy like it should now.  It would also set a bad precedent for future problems of this nature.  There might as well not be any attunement at all if every time something new comes out they unatune everyone's items.<BR><BR>Six months from now nobody will even remember this anyway.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The economy is [Removed for Content] they are not taking the right steps to fix it cause the players would mutiny on them even more than now. This whole attune thing is because of the artisan whining about not getting rich enough as quick as they want and these new enhancements are also to help artisans make more money in game. </P> <P>The adventurers are not whining enough they will never get their things fixed unless they are more vocal. I would think some of the artisan whiners would learn from all the changes caused by the provisioner whiners and see that trying to force players to do something may backfire, even I made a provisioner to provide my food and drink. I guess it's time to make a weaponsmith, armorsmith and alchemist. I hope more adventurers will boycott the artisans and make alts to provide their stuff.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Tagga on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:36 AM</span>

[Unmask]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draelan wrote:<BR> <DIV>My point does not have to do with game mechanics or balance.  They are punishing the people that have managed to already get the rare harvest armor/weapons and rewarding those that are either lucky enough to be in the appropriate trade skill or those that have not had any made yet.  When you apply those base principles (punish those that have achieved something and not others that are lucky or just haven't got there yet) to real world examples they seem absurd, and they are.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Exactly.  So they can either punish both or punish neither.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I'll just add however that it is not luck to be in the appropriate tradeskill.  While I admit that I didn't foresee any of the new enchanting options, I really knew little about tradeskilling at all even by the time I decided to become a tailor (my mother wanted me to be an accountant like uncle Fido).  My decision was based on being able to craft my own armor - and I can (for now). <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Drael]

<P><SPAN>CerraWhisperwind wrote:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>You take a certain risk when you are an early adopter.  The first people to get something usually pay more for an inferior product than do the people who wait.  In MMORPGs the early people often get benifits from imbalances that are fixed as those same early people reveal them, such as not loosing their rare torque to the glowing black stone quest.  Sometimes, however, that balance falls the other way, like in the case of the improved quest rewards and now the case of the new recipies for armors.  Just as there is no way they can go back and adjust people who benifited from broken game mechanics, there is no way they can 'fix' this without negating a huge part of their economy fix.  If they allowed everyone to unattune their items, even once, it would case a lot of problems with people suddenly reselling armor they no longer want instead of it going out of the economy like it should now.  It would also set a bad precedent for future problems of this nature.  There might as well not be any attunement at all if every time something new comes out they unatune everyone's items.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>---------------------------------------------------------</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>You are correct that the early people get some benefits from imbalances but I would wager that they are much less than the problems we experience.<SPAN>  </SPAN>They are much quicker to fix the things that act in our favor than they are the ones that cause us problems.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I can attest to this, as I am sure anyone else that has played this game for any length of time.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>You are assuming that they would have to let everyone unattune their items.<SPAN>  </SPAN>That’s a big assumption.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If that is the case then no, my argument does not work because it would affect other players.<SPAN>  </SPAN>However, There are numerous suggestions on how to make it work so that the items do not become unattuned and, therefore, would only help the people who are left out of this change.<SPAN>  </SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>Why not let attuned items be traded with special circumstances?<SPAN>  </SPAN>i.e. If the attuned item is being traded from the owner to another player (crafter) <SPAN> </SPAN>then no other items or coin can be included in the trade.<SPAN>  </SPAN>When the item is being traded from a player (crafter) back to the owner then the owner could include coin in the trade thus allowing a way to pay a crafter at that time.<SPAN>  </SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>I think they would like us to believe that the only way to make this work is if it somehow would negatively affect other players.<SPAN>   </SPAN>That allows them to be in the middle of the argument instead of on one side.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If they are on just one side of the argument then they have to answer to the ‘Customer is always right’ adage.<SPAN>  </SPAN>When they are in the middle of the argument they can claim that they do not have to follow that concept because favoring one customer negatively affects another.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I believe there is a solution to this but they do not want to put the effort into it.</SPAN></P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN> <P><BR>--------------------------------------------------------<BR>Six months from now nobody will even remember this anyway.</P> <P></SPAN><SPAN>--------------------------------------------------------</SPAN></P><SPAN>You are definitely right there.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This specific situation will be gone.<SPAN>  </SPAN>However, the manner in which they deal with similar situations will not.</SPAN>

[CerraWhisperwind]

<div></div>While they may be able to fix it so you can trade attuned items without someone else being able to equip it, it would require a lot of development time and introduce a lot of bugs.... all for a one time fix.  Its just not worth it. I would much rather they spend their time fixing what we have and adding new content.   Besides, if you are in a guild you will be replacing your ebon anyway with raid armor, and if not, what else are you going to do at 50 besides farm cash? <div></div><p>Message Edited by CerraWhisperwind on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:59 AM</span>

[Unmask]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tagga wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>The economy is [Removed for Content] they are not taking the right steps to fix it cause the players would mutiny on them even more than now. This whole attune thing is because of the artisan whining about not getting rich enough as quick as they want and these new enhancements are also to help artisans make more money in game.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is so wrong it's almost funny.  Rares were always attunable and attuning helps <STRONG>new</STRONG> adventurers as well as new artisans so when they eventually find that 20,000th enchanted leather tunic there aren't 19,999 of them to compete with when trying to sell it.  Other than that I don't see attuning as being that beneficial to anyone.

[Drael]

<P>-------------------------------------------<BR>CerrWhisperwind wrote:</P> <P>While they may be able to fix it so you can trade attuned items without someone else being able to equip it, it would require a lot of development time and introduce a lot of bugs.... all for a one time fix.  Its just not worth it.<BR>-------------------------------------------</P> <P>A lot of development time and bugs?  You are probably right.  One time fix?  Not sure I agree with that one.  What happens when they introduce new things for existing equipment like dyes or other spells?  If they did this fix now, they wouldn't have to worry about it in the future.  Get a robust system in place now for the direction they are heading and it will eventually reduce the headaches.  It looks like they are continuing on their original development path without considering some of the major changes they have made (attunement).  I think things like this will continue to haunt them unless they pay the up-front price of revamping their plan to include the major changes they have had to make.</P> <P>-------------------------------------------<BR>I would much rather they spend their time fixing what we have and adding new content.   Besides, if you are in a guild you will be replacing your ebon anyway with raid armor, and if not, what else are you going to do at 50 besides farm cash?<BR>-------------------------------------------</P> <P>I would like to see them fix things and only add the new content as long as it is designed around the fixes/changes they have made. </P> <P>What I do with my time is not the issue.  The issue is that I should not have to go through the effort again to get the same piece of equipment I already own with the only difference being that I have clicked the "attune" button.<BR></P>