Make enhancemnts and END ITEM

[Blackdog183]

<DIV>This thread is going up to hopefully get the community discussing the prosect of making the new enhancemtns and "end item"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Many people are whining that this new change is a return of dependancy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say that these new items should be crafted by an alchemist, and only an alchemist, purchased by anyone, and "attuned" to the item he/she chooses.  This would remove all other crafting classes from the game, thus killing any complaint about dependancy.  It would also give alchey's a desirable end item, since potions/poisens/essense dont sell for crap.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Feel free to post your thoughts.</DIV>

[Baelzharon]

Kinda like EQ1 and slotted equipment? This way anyone and everyone benifits and not just alchemists.Example:The devs can give other crafters the ability to craft better slots into their existing armor, so Pristine armor has say 3 slots but crude would have 1 for example. Rare dropped equipment, and rare crafted equipment would have more slots.Also to avoid twinking make teired equipment only able to add in the proper tiered enchantments as well, this way a level 5 character could not be running around with a tier 5 enchantment in his teir 1 leather tunic.I an 100% all for adding in a new line of craftable items, however I am not so keen on making everyone purely dependant on Alchemists again for the new armor. Better to let the crafters make the slotted equipment, and then the players buy the enchantments they want and attune them to their equipment as they see fit.As an added bonus for all crafters, give them a new line of items to craft. Solvents, used to remove unwanted enchantments from their prospective equipment lines so players can upgrade at will and buy them off of any crafter who is responsibible for making that solvent. Everyone is happy, adventurers get new toys, alchemists get something new to make, all the other crafters (cept provisioners and carpenters sorry guys??) get to make new slotted equipment and solvents.

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>I think Blackdog has a much better idea than SOE did in its update</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back in EQL there had been auguments both as drops and craftable (coming with GoD) and it added a lot to adventuring and crafting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, Alchemists should be able to craft auguments and sell them, I agree 100% . Personally I <EM>think</EM> that these crafted auguments should only be able  to worked into gear by the appropriate crafting class. Not only would this allow crafters to produce a variety of gear it would also bring a lot of live into the economy as for the first time people could actually buy/craft stuff that is *tailored* to their classes needs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adventurers shouldnt be left out of course - make auguments drop too and to make them desirable they should be augumentable by everyone without a crafting process.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So there would be a split market for auguments crafted for crafters and looted for *looters*. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let dropped auguments be removable so adventurers wouldnt take so much loss at upgrading and  <EM>attunement </EM>suddenly wouldnt be that much of a problem anymore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@Blackdog  - a great idea you had. ***** and an apology for me not taking you seriously enough in the other thread</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:01 AM</span>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>I know bumping is not much appreciated but I think Blackdog had a better idea than whats currently on test and I would like to see it discussed.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>...../bump</DIV>

[MaenaBowy]

<P>Just to play devil's advocate:</P> <P>Having the augment be an "applied final" like poisons or whatever may be overbalancing.  Everybody will always have "pristine" augments.  There won't be anybody running around with a "normal" augment, or a "shaped" augment.  If the quality of the final augment is determined as you apply it to the crafted item, then people will have to run around with a "shaped" augment, if the crafter messes up while applying it to their pristine forged ebon vanguard cuirass.</P> <P>This allows the "Pristine" augments to be higher quality than if all augments end up pristine.  Risk vs. Reward and all that.  I'm not entirely sure which way adventurers would prefer it.  No risk less powerful augments, or higher risk more powerful augments.</P> <P>But I'd imagine those that know trusted highly skilled artisans and/or have cash to blow on "failed results" are more likely to want the higher risk and more powerful augments.</P>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>If crafters just add auguments (crafted by alchemists) into their armor, sword, etc. there'd be no risk. And since armor from crude to pristine sells so will  auguments in different shades of quality.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just think it would absolutely be necessary to introduce auguments as drops also and these should NOT be crafter dependent but ready to use for the adventuerer who looted it and has a piece of gear with the appropriate slot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Trucegore_Vonbloodwor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV>If crafters just add auguments (crafted by alchemists) into their armor, sword, etc. there'd be no risk. And since armor from crude to pristine sells so will  auguments in different shades of quality.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just think it would absolutely be necessary to introduce auguments as drops also and these should NOT be crafter dependent but ready to use for the adventuerer who looted it and has a piece of gear with the appropriate slot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>You guys do know that adding these "arguments" will make normal gear obsolete.</SPAN></P>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>you mean like the dropped gear that has no stats except for AC?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>think about the posibilities - if auguments would drop and everything had slots there wouldnt be any normal gear anymore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>think about that uber raid mob that doesnt drop an uberchestplate every 100th time and stuff thats no upgrade for the rest but a 10-augument-slot average chestplate every 1 in 10 times and 1 or 2 GOOD auguments <EM>every </EM>time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some raiders said not only risk but also effort should be rewarded. That way someone who devotes every weekend to raids wouldnt have to wait for a lucky drop (or winning the lotto) he could collect (and trade) the auguments for his str/resists/power/whatever - chestplate over time and finally get a reward that not only is related to the effort but also UNIQUE - 10 slots would mean no 2 pieces are easily alike.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>alchys would still be able to craft whatever augument they like (dependent on the raws they harvest/buy) and crafters could still *tailor* stuff which would help especially crafter-heavy guilds to make pieces appropriate for the exact class and style of play.</DIV>

[missionarymarr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MaenaBowyer wrote:<BR> <P>Just to play devil's advocate:</P> <P>Having the augment be an "applied final" like poisons or whatever may be overbalancing.  Everybody will always have "pristine" augments.  There won't be anybody running around with a "normal" augment, or a "shaped" augment.  If the quality of the final augment is determined as you apply it to the crafted item, then people will have to run around with a "shaped" augment, if the crafter messes up while applying it to their pristine forged ebon vanguard cuirass.</P> <P>This allows the "Pristine" augments to be higher quality than if all augments end up pristine.  Risk vs. Reward and all that.  I'm not entirely sure which way adventurers would prefer it.  No risk less powerful augments, or higher risk more powerful augments.</P> <P>But I'd imagine those that know trusted highly skilled artisans and/or have cash to blow on "failed results" are more likely to want the higher risk and more powerful augments.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Reading the patch notes right now it seems that it won't matter the level of enhancements right now. The effect they give the item will be based on the quality of the final product. Since the only thing that ever determines the quality of an item is the quality of the main item in crafting it would appear to me that right now it won't matter much what quality the enhancement is in there system. <BR></P>

[Quai Chan Ka]

<DIV>I agree this would stop many of the whiners from saying crafters are now 100% dependant when it comes to imbuing equipment, making the extracts something that anyone can apply on equipment means crafters can no longer whine about it being "interdependency" issue among crafters because it will be our end item, the first end product that an alchemist can have which sells more frequently then the impossible to sell essences,potions,poisons. YES I SAID IT IMPOSSIBLE!!! Try selling 20 essences or potions or posions for 5 days and tell me if u can if u do good for u, really im satisfied another alchemist is not having my troubles but keep in mind that im not alone in selling these ridiculous end items so yes IMPOSSIBLE! </DIV>

[Demothis]

<P>I think trying to change the crafting system with the new recipes si poinltess. Interdependancy was removed so that all classes could level up on thier own 2 feet. That said making the essences so that anyone can apply the solvent isn't a good Idea or feesable. They will have to restucture it so that all Handmade Items could only be applied with it complicating things to where they dont need to be. Also, all crafters want thierpiece of the pie with the new imbueing recipes and making it alch only is a bit absurde.</P> <P>Now if if alchs want to complain about potion and poison quality, I stand behind them on this. Effects of potions and poins dont give a notable enough effect. Hech Id even support bringing in new items for the alchs to make, but not soly with items that are considerd rare. The solvents ingrediants drop far more commonly the the oter rares, but I dont think this will revive the need for the class as well as fixing thier current end products, and maybe adding in somthing more usefull. Am I aqn alch, no, but I am a sage, so I know the spell end of it all too well. I also have a wood worker, so I am familiar with totems which are fundamentaly the same thing, they sell, but not enough to make any decent money on. So I can kinda empathise with them, at least understand where they are coming from.</P> <P>Biggest problem right now is that most of the artisen classes are finally starting to balance out to a point, with the ach and the carpenter left behind, The system still needs some work, Fiz has been doing a pretty good job as a whole. Changing things now is just gona disrupt that balance,  and that is not gona help things. It would be easier and wiser IMO to bring the other 2 up to par with the other classes by giving them some new Diffrent types of common (and the rare equivalant) end products that people will find useful.</P>

[Quai Chan Ka]

<DIV>I understand your point of view Demothises ive written something sharing this similar doubt about this same idea but u mentioned something that kinda left me thinking, you said everyone wants a piece of the pie. Ok to start off every single crafting class has a "piece of the pie" in respect to worthwile recipes, examples: Tailor backpacks, Woodworker totems,Sage spells,Provisioner drinks. Notice i chose a type of recipe from each of these classess that are highly desireably and highly marketable. Now i want to point out that the recipes ive mentioned make products that EVERY adventurer class can use and would want at an affordable price, with the exception of sage recipes for spells because not everyone can use spells, but it does cater to 14 classes and that is still pretty big especially since spells are more important for casters then many other things. So ok im hoping you can see that every craft class i mentioned(which also happen to be the classess u have Demothises) have their piece of the pie=big market, now please tell me what an alchemist is left with? Please do not do the bold thing and respond telling me essences. I have been forced to sell three 20 slot boxes filled with the little essences to the merchents because of the lack of market for them, so please dont go there its pointless. So you see all im asking for is what any crafter should have 7 or 10 recipes that actually make something everyone wants, and im not even asking for that, im just asking for a fix to the original four we got from last patch. And for your information you have gotten 3 pieces of the pie, first you get the recipes that are original and marketable recipes which every crafter class should ahve, then all crafters get recipes that belong to alchemists to make it "easier" for u guys (thats 2), then you guys get imbuing recipes which involve alchemists becoming the second hand man in great products(not involving carpenters, and provisioners in this part). What do u think u get, a dead alchemy class. So im soooo sorry for wanting the ability for my class to make something everyone wants and not be the second hand man in it but its just not my style. I mean come on you might as well end up calling my class the [Removed for Content] Assistant Crafter. Oh thats just lovely</DIV>

[Quai Chan Ka]

<DIV>Double post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Quai Chan Kain on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:12 AM</span>

[Quai Chan Ka]

<DIV>Triple post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Quai Chan Kain on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:12 AM</span>

[Demothis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quai Chan Kain wrote:<BR> <DIV>I understand your point of view Demothises ive written something sharing this similar doubt about this same idea but u mentioned something that kinda left me thinking, you said everyone wants a piece of the pie. Ok to start off every single crafting class has a "piece of the pie" in respect to worthwile recipes, examples: Tailor backpacks, Woodworker totems,Sage spells,Provisioner drinks. Notice i chose a type of recipe from each of these classess that are highly desireably and highly marketable. Now i want to point out that the recipes ive mentioned make products that EVERY adventurer class can use and would want at an affordable price, with the exception of sage recipes for spells because not everyone can use spells, but it does cater to 14 classes and that is still pretty big especially since spells are more important for casters then many other things. So ok im hoping you can see that every craft class i mentioned(which also happen to be the classess u have Demothises) have their piece of the pie=big market, now please tell me what an alchemist is left with? Please do not do the bold thing and respond telling me essences. I have been forced to sell three 20 slot boxes filled with the little essences to the merchents because of the lack of market for them, so please dont go there its pointless. So you see all im asking for is what any crafter should have 7 or 10 recipes that actually make something everyone wants, and im not even asking for that, im just asking for a fix to the original four we got from last patch. And for your information you have gotten 3 pieces of the pie, first you get the recipes that are original and marketable recipes which every crafter class should ahve, then all crafters get recipes that belong to alchemists to make it "easier" for u guys (thats 2), then you guys get imbuing recipes which involve alchemists becoming the second hand man in great products(not involving carpenters, and provisioners in this part). What do u think u get, a dead alchemy class. So im soooo sorry for wanting the ability for my class to make something everyone wants and not be the second hand man in it but its just not my style. I mean come on you might as well end up calling my class the [Removed for Content] Assistant Crafter. Oh thats just lovely</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm not saying I disagree that the alchemists need help, by no means. Right now their end products fall about a tier behind of what they should. I am of corse refering to poisons and potions. Thes fundamentaly work the same as totems and make verry little money when they do sell. But if you look at the skills where they top off, like poison for example it falls a tier short. An alchy makes a tier 5 poison, the poison will top off at skill 200. well tier tier 5 players are considered to be 40-50. Poison you buy from an npc vendor tops off at skill 250 for this tier because 200 is the beguining of the tier, so a tier 5 alchs poison is on par skill usage wise as a tier 4 npc vendor which is wron. It is this way with all of the poisons and potions which is 1 of the big reason they are so weak for the level. I also personaly believe advance apothicary ( and similar advanced books) should b <DIV>e removed entirely. These books are ment to make it so any artisen can level, you dont need advanced books to level. Beside fixing thier curent finnished products, a few diffrent types of items wouldn't be uncalled for, I'm open to sugjestions here. It's not that I dont feel for the Alchs, I do, they have a very reasonable Grip, I just dont think removing the added recipes from the other crafters will solve the real issues with the class and that is that their end item suck and nead a serious overhaul to make them wanted. An artisen shouldn't rely on the rares to have a market.</DIV>

[Damanex]

    I'd have to agree with most of the other posters here in the fact that the magical extracts should be applied by all crafters to an item within their respective trade, but that alchemists potions & poisons should definitely be buffed     I've tried alot of the rare potions you guys can make -- I love the stat boost ones, but SOE really needs to look at these and change the requirements to make them along with their durations     I think that would solve the problem with the alchemists having problems selling a marketable end product and getting their share of 'the pie' <div></div>