grats to everyone who has a high lvl alchy [Archive]

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 05:39 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>from: </FONT><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=31" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffffff>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=31</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** New Harvested Items and Recipes ***</FONT></STRONG> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>- There are new types of uncommon harvested items to be found. They can be gathered from existing harvesting nodes and are identified as glowing, sparkling, glimmering, or luminous depending on their level range.<BR>- New recipe books are available for purchase at the camps of the Hand of Marr and Brethren of Night. Those wishing to buy the books will need to first earn favor with the merchants.<BR>- Using these new recipes and new harvested items,</FONT> <FONT color=#99ff00>Alchemists can create magical extracts that other crafters can use to make new items or enhance existing goods.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I think its not fair to make every other TS dependent to a single class again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As usual i will try my best to adapt to the new situation - luckily I mainly do backpacks for my own character and just sell the leftovers and I guess there wont be *enchanted* backpacks but I cant say I am happy with that change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <SPAN class=date_text>03-17-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:19 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Okay I have 1 thing to say to you, quite your whining, plain and simple.</P> <P>Alchemy was recently given the equivalent of a friggen pink slip and laid off. Infact, on my server, freeport side I am the only [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] alchemist that still makes ANYTHING, WORTS, ink anything.....</P> <P>This addition was much needed, plain and simple, and I pray wholeheartedly that it is made only(ONLY) by an alchemist. As it stands alcheys have NO END ITEMS that sell....potions/poisens, and spells dont sell for [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Hopefully this is the first of many changes being made to improve the plight of alchemist.</P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 05:42 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TroodonIE wrote:<BR>Looking at the argument from another angle you might as well complain that any class is capable of producing items that others cant/need. Is it fair that we're all dependent on tailors for bags? :p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>bags are final components</DIV>

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 05:47 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TroodonIE wrote:<BR>Looking at the argument from another angle you might as well complain that any class is capable of producing items that others cant/need. Is it fair that we're all dependent on tailors for bags? :p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>bags are final components</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes they are, and these new components should be considered an "end item" in that they cannot be made using apocrathy, these should be made only by an alchey.....and I thinkg that the point Troodon was making is...</P> <P>How would you feel if suddenly everyone could make bags as good/better than you....and that was the "only" desirable product you had....cause thats what they did to alcheys</P>

James_UK

03-17-2005, 05:49 PM

The new components aren't end items though - other crafters have a dependency on them.

Baelzharon

03-17-2005, 05:53 PM

So all the other tradeskillers who deleted their Alchemist Alt when interdependancy was removed are now going to come here and whine because Alchemists now have something they need again?FSSSSTTTT!!!!

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 05:53 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> James_UK wrote:<BR>The new components aren't end items though - other crafters have a dependency on them.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Not really.... </P> <P>They can still make "regular" items...they will still sell</P> <P>The new component is not required to craft, its an addtion, nothing more.</P> <P>Will it make regular items completly undersirable, yes possibly.</P> <P>The simplest solution to this, would be to make the "uncommon" items needed to make the new enhancemtns not stupid hard to get(IE japser palladium etc) that would help defer the cost.</P> <P> </P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 05:57 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TroodonIE wrote:<BR>Looking at the argument from another angle you might as well complain that any class is capable of producing items that others cant/need. Is it fair that we're all dependent on tailors for bags? :p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>bags are final components</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes they are, and these new components should be considered an "end item" in that they cannot be made using apocrathy, these should be made only by an alchey.....and I thinkg that the point Troodon was making is...</P> <P>How would you feel if suddenly everyone could make bags as good/better than you....and that was the "only" desirable product you had....cause thats what they did to alcheys</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Crafting is not an income for me. I upgrade 30 Backpacks each tier and I want each and everyone to be pristine so that keeps me easily busy for 10 levels since I do all the refines and interims myself except for the buckles.</P> <P>So if SOE made backpacks craftable with weaving I would think its not consistent with the system - but personally I couldn't care less.<BR></P>

Harovan

03-17-2005, 06:00 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Go buy a measure tape so at least physically you get a clue :smileyvery-happy:<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Good response. Clearly shows your state of mind, I couldn't have done it better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's a clue for you, without buying a measuring tape (I still don't get that analogy): Other than certain whiners who are stuck with a level 12 pocket scholar, I do have an up-to-date pocket alchemist. And I can assure you, I am just loving the upcoming changes. :smileyvery-happy: On behalf of us dedicated crafters, thank you very much for it, Sony. It was long time for this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 06:01 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TroodonIE wrote:<BR>Looking at the argument from another angle you might as well complain that any class is capable of producing items that others cant/need. Is it fair that we're all dependent on tailors for bags? :p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>bags are final components</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes they are, and these new components should be considered an "end item" in that they cannot be made using apocrathy, these should be made only by an alchey.....and I thinkg that the point Troodon was making is...</P> <P>How would you feel if suddenly everyone could make bags as good/better than you....and that was the "only" desirable product you had....cause thats what they did to alcheys</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Crafting is not an income for me. I upgrade 30 Backpacks each tier and I want each and everyone to be pristine so that keeps me easily busy for 10 levels since I do all the refines and interims myself except for the buckles.</P> <P>So if SOE made backpacks craftable with weaving I would think its not consistent with the system - but personally I couldn't care less.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Okay...your not getting the point. Its not my sole source of income either, I can make more money off vendor trash soloing greens in EL that I make crafting, in less time usually. The point is, this is an effort from the devs to breath life into a class they shot in the head to help crafting. Yes the removal of interdependancy was needed, but it was done at the cost of killing an entire crafting class more or less. This is the attempt to fix that deathblow.</P> <P>You might not like it, okay, good for you. I think you will find most people arent in agreement with you.</P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 06:01 PM

<DIV>And to put an end to the definition game:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everything that can't be further brought into a crafting process is an end product and everything that has no use on its own is an interim PERIOD</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the grey zone in between applies only to provisioner items</DIV>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 06:03 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <P>You might not like it, okay, good for you. I think you will find most people arent in agreement with you.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>with 350.000 current subscribers that is a bold thing to say.<BR>

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 06:04 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV>And to put an end to the definition game:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everything that can't be further brought into a crafting process is an end product and everything that has no use on its own is an interim PERIOD</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the grey zone in between applies only to provisioner items</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Okay simple fix to your "definition" is that the enhancement is made an end item, can be bought and added to armor/weapons by anyone. Problem solved.</P> <P>Or would it be simple to just not add it to the aprocrathy books, like they did with all provisioner items.</P>

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 06:05 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <P>You might not like it, okay, good for you. <EM><U><STRONG>I think</STRONG> </U></EM>you will find most people arent in agreement with you.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>with 350.000 current subscribers that is a bold thing to say.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Read highlited text, get a clue<BR>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 06:05 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> The point is, this is an effort from the devs to breath life into a class they shot in the head to help crafting. Yes the removal of interdependancy was needed, but it was done at the cost of killing an entire crafting class more or less. This is the attempt to fix that deathblow.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You might not like it, okay, good for you. I think you will find most people arent in agreement with you.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I just see no sense in removing interdependency for ALL classes and restore it 2 months later again but this time for ONE class only.<BR> <p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:06 AM</span>

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 06:07 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> The point is, this is an effort from the devs to breath life into a class they shot in the head to help crafting. Yes the removal of interdependancy was needed, but it was done at the cost of killing an entire crafting class more or less. This is the attempt to fix that deathblow.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You might not like it, okay, good for you. I think you will find most people arent in agreement with you.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I just see no sense in removing interdependency for ALL classes and restore it 2 months later again but this time for ONE class only.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <SPAN class=date_text>03-17-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:06 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Okay theres really no simpler way to say this</P> <P><STRONG>THIS ADDITION DOES NOT IN ANYWAY PRECLUDE YOU FROM CRAFTING ANYTHING, IT IS AN ADDITION TO AN ITEM, NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS, IT WILL NOT PREVENT YOU FROM CRAFTING, YOU HAVE THE CHOICE NOT USE THEM...................</STRONG></P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 06:07 PM

<STRONG></STRONG><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <P>You might not like it, okay, good for you. <EM><U><STRONG>I think</STRONG> </U></EM>you will find most people arent in agreement with you.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>with 350.000 current subscribers that is a bold thing to say.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Read highlited text, get a clue<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'll have to do with the white one I guess.....but nice that you turned it <STRONG>bold</STRONG> yourself :smileyvery-happy:<BR>

James_UK

03-17-2005, 06:10 PM

This is a dependency between crafters BlackDog.Pointing out that some items wont have dependency does not change that.Everyone can make bread but it did me sod all use when I needed ink and couldn't get any because of dependency.As for making the new harvestables easy to find - this will just make the problem worse.It would make ordinary items less desirable and crafters more dependent on alchemists to make products that sell.SOE make up your mind and stick to it so I can do the same.

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 06:14 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <P><STRONG>THIS ADDITION DOES NOT IN ANYWAY PRECLUDE YOU FROM CRAFTING ANYTHING, IT IS AN ADDITION TO AN ITEM, NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS, IT WILL NOT PREVENT YOU FROM CRAFTING, YOU HAVE THE CHOICE NOT USE THEM...................</STRONG></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Currently a tailor toon can <FONT color=#99ff00>craft the best recipes he has available on his own </FONT>he can harvest eveything himself and do all interims himself. he doesnt need anyone else to do any recipe he can get his hands on, no matter how difficult.</P> <P>But now he can get recipes he cant craft on his own, no matter how hard he tries.</P> <P>Again - why make every class independent and 2 months later make everyone dependent from alchys again who wants to <FONT color=#99ff00>craft the best recipes he has available</FONT>?<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:16 AM</span>

Xiomba

03-17-2005, 06:14 PM

<DIV> <DIV>Seems like there are a lot of angry alchemists out there...</DIV> <DIV>Before the whole interdependancy thing alchemists where totally spoiled, they werent left behind after the recent changes they where pretty much balanced. They can still make good profit with WORTs, just not as much as they were used to make. I got a lvl 46 armorer and I am always looking to buy chemicals, the main problem is that noone is offering them most of the time, because all Tier 5 alchemists already made 20+ platin and are simply to lazy to work an hour and only earn 10 gold or so for that.</DIV> <DIV>Potions really could be a bit better, although I regularly buy some healing potions already....poisons are selling quite good I would say and since you can loot rares from chests much more players want adept III to be made. Also the statement that fighters are not concerned with upgrading their attacks is wrong.</DIV> <DIV>The only real problem alchemists face is that there are too many of them out there right now, on the other hand many have quit already or people simply stopped playing their alchemist alt. </DIV> <DIV>So I agree that changing the system again and making every crafter dependant on alchemists again probably is not a good idea. I personally think that they instead should make potions mabye 100% more effecient and let every crafting class make their own enchantments for their final products.</DIV></DIV>

James_UK

03-17-2005, 06:19 PM

To right Xio - No one (I hope) wants to see a class hit as much as the alchemists were but this is not the solution - make there final products desirable.

Qandor

03-17-2005, 06:57 PM

<DIV>The point is that crafting was borked as originally designed because one class, Alchemists, had a strangle hold on all the other classes, save, Provi's. No one could do anything without an alchemist having his finger in the pie somewhere and as a result that finger grabbed a disproportionate piece of every single pie. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Re-introducing a similar concept now is just plain dumb. We will be right back to where we were. If enchanted items are all that good, that is all folks will want, and Alchemists will once again have a stranglehold over all the other crafting classes. This is not a good idea. In fact, it is a terrible idea. It is one way dependency all over again. They really need to rethink this move. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think about it. A tailor can make enchanted armor but only with an alchemist. A weaponsmith can make an enchanted weapon but only with an alchemist. The list goes on and on. This gives Alchemists a piece of EVERYONE's sales and I gaurantee you that in short order that will be a very large piece, but NO ONE gets a piece of alchemists sales. History is about to repeat itself. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before anyone tells me to go make an alchemist - don't bother - I have a level 49 alchy and still think this is a very bad move on SOE's part.</DIV>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 07:01 PM

<DIV> <DIV> <P>A thread called: <FONT color=#99ff00>Yay *Pops the "insert your favourite alcohol" bottle open</FONT> <FONT color=#99ff00 size=3><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&message.id=4651" target=_blank><FONT color=#99ff00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&message.id=4651</FONT></A></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ff00 size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>cheers</FONT> :smileysurprised:<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&message.id=4651" target=_blank></A></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 07:02 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xiombark wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>Seems like there are a lot of angry alchemists out there...</DIV> <DIV>Before the whole interdependancy thing alchemists where totally spoiled, they werent left behind after the recent changes they where pretty much balanced. They can still make good profit with WORTs, just not as much as they were used to make. I got a lvl 46 armorer and I am always looking to buy chemicals, the main problem is that noone is offering them most of the time, because all Tier 5 alchemists already made 20+ platin and are simply to lazy to work an hour and only earn 10 gold or so for that.</DIV> <DIV>Potions really could be a bit better, although I regularly buy some healing potions already....poisons are selling quite good I would say and since you can loot rares from chests much more players want adept III to be made. Also the statement that fighters are not concerned with upgrading their attacks is wrong.</DIV> <DIV>The only real problem alchemists face is that there are too many of them out there right now, on the other hand many have quit already or people simply stopped playing their alchemist alt. </DIV> <DIV>So I agree that changing the system again and making every crafter dependant on alchemists again probably is not a good idea. I personally think that they instead should make potions mabye 100% more effecient and let every crafting class make their own enchantments for their final products.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Im sorry I cant disagree more. Everyone that whines, alchemist were fired, like it or not, we were. We have NO desirable end items, not one. </P> <P>I see t4 bags going for 6gp+ on the broker....everyday. And they sell at that price. I would call that a pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good profit for an end item. I see armor that goes for 3gp+, jewlers 3gp+ and these items sell like hotcakes at that price.</P> <P>Alchemist have nothing that is desirable in any way. This is the one item that will make alchemy worthwhile again.</P> <P>I say the simplest and most effective solution, make them an end item, that once purchased is "attuned" to an item so to speak. Remove all other crafters from the process completly. This would give alchemist one desirable end item.</P> <P>Then you can all not complain about it, because quite simply, it wouldnt involve you in any way.</P>

Odissi

03-17-2005, 07:07 PM

That doesn't fix anything.<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 07:08 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>That doesn't fix anything.<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How doesent it....</P> <P>if it was made an end item, that anyone could "attune" to their weapons/armor themselves then it would remove any and all "dependancy" from the picture.</P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 07:09 PM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:. <P>I say the simplest and most effective solution, make them an end item, that once purchased is "attuned" to an item so to speak. Remove all other crafters from the process completly. This would give alchemist one desirable <FONT color=#99ff00>end item.</FONT></P> <P>Then you can all not complain about it, because quite simply, it wouldnt involve you in any way.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>An <FONT color=#99ff00>end item</FONT> has to have a use of its own and therefore needs a SLOT to be put into. If its going to be put into some other piece of gear its NOT an end item.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If SOE wants alchemists to become THE class again just let alchemists craft <FONT color=#ffcc00>un-attune</FONT> potions :smileyvery-happy: (like we had in EQL for auguments). then alchemysts could get rich again and my tailor could retain independency :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV>'</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>EDITED:</STRONG> but apart from the definition thing I have no objections to alchemists produce <FONT color=#99ff00>auguments </FONT>that every other crafter can work into his gear. The longer I think about it the better I like the idea. What buggles me from the original updates info is that there is not going to be much variety again - weapons deliver a proc, armor gets a buff so in the end everything would be more or less the same again with exactly ONE desirable suit of crafted gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with a broad rage of auguments (tier based of course) alchemist had their own kind of *product* line again and every other crafter could finally craft that AGI-chestplate, STR-sword or 100-save-vs-all-ring.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>@Blackdog - you brought up something very interesting here and I apologize for not taking your opinion serious enough at the start</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:19 AM</span>

Odissi

03-17-2005, 07:18 PM

<blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:. <P>I say the simplest and most effective solution, make them an end item, that once purchased is "attuned" to an item so to speak. Remove all other crafters from the process completly. This would give alchemist one desirable <FONT color=#99ff00>end item.</FONT></P> <P>Then you can all not complain about it, because quite simply, it wouldnt involve you in any way.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>An <FONT color=#99ff00>end item</FONT> has to have a use of its own and therefore needs a SLOT to be put into. If its going to be put into some other piece of gear its NOT an end item.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If SOE wants alchemists to become THE class again just let alchemists craft <FONT color=#ffcc00>un-attune</FONT> potions :smileyvery-happy: (like we had in EQL for auguments). then alchemysts could get rich again and my tailor could retain independency :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>That wouldn't fix anything either. How bout you look at my thread to see a better way of fixing alchemy.

z3oslo

03-17-2005, 07:21 PM

<DIV><FONT color=#6699ff>Alchemist have nothing that is desirable in any way</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Yes you do, but you will be required to actually make them and put them up for sale ...</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My ranger would love to buy your poisons, but i cant, cause they are never for sale.</DIV> <DIV>Those for sale are from other scouts, charging 1 gold or more per posion, AND they have been used..</DIV> <DIV>Fighters want app4 and adept3, but again you need to make them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The few alchemists on my server that DOES make them, make good money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to the subject, i wish SOE could be consistant. dependancy today, but not tomorrow, a few weeks later we have dependancy again. </DIV> <DIV>Not thrilled about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Blackdog183

03-17-2005, 07:29 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> z3oslo wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff>Alchemist have nothing that is desirable in any way</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Yes you do, but you will be required to actually make them and put them up for sale ...</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My ranger would love to buy your poisons, but i cant, cause they are never for sale.</DIV> <DIV>Those for sale are from other scouts, charging 1 gold or more per posion, AND they have been used..</DIV> <DIV>Fighters want app4 and adept3, but again you need to make them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The few alchemists on my server that DOES make them, make good money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to the subject, i wish SOE could be consistant. dependancy today, but not tomorrow, a few weeks later we have dependancy again. </DIV> <DIV>Not thrilled about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Okay heres the problem..</P> <P>Its costs me more money to make a potion that is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] near the equivalent of one you can buy from the merchant for a few silver....thats not cost effective considering any smart scout goes to the merchant and gets them</P> <P>Fighters dont buy app 4's....I have made them before, Ive put up every single app 4 ive ever made....and I have to make about 300 to get 10 levels...Ive sold maybe 10 or so. Thats 600 essense put up on the broker for a week at a time, and sold 4. This is every single essense from lvl 20-35. I fill my inventory, let em sit there a week while my vitality regens and low and behold, they are still there at the end of week.</P>

Baelzharon

03-17-2005, 07:45 PM

I can second Blackdogs issue with essances. They really do not sell at all. The way I level up is by making WROTs, then using the WROTS to make Ink and finally using the Ink to make spells. The Essances never sell, and I always end up having to vendor them to make room for the next tiers items. I sometimes get requests to make a few App IVs, but that is rare so now I just vendor essances till someone hires me to make them as keeping them in stock is a waste of bank space. Hell I can't even sell my Adept I's because they are so common now...

Xiomba

03-17-2005, 07:48 PM

<P>First of all making alchemist products attunable is not reasonable at all because most of their items cant be resold by players anyway. I also dont understand what many alchemists think other crafters earn...the comparison to tailors is quite ridiculous...tailors are also having a very hard time since interdependancy has been removed, they final combines usually dont sell or they dont sell for very much profit atleast. T 4 and T 5 bags also dont sell aswell as T 3 bags for example. I got a lvl 37 tailor that used to make paddings and harnesses for my armorer, that was his only use (I dont play him anymore)...the money he made by selling a few light or very light armors and bags was barely enough to afford chemicals. So please dont assume that every highlevel crafter has the potential to become rich.</P> <P>Its also quite difficult to say if essences sell or dont sell, this depends how many alchemists also offer them on a server and how many tanks in the same level range are there. Maybe adept 1 books should be made somewhat rarer again to enable alchemist to sell more of their final products.</P>

z3oslo

03-17-2005, 07:56 PM

<DIV>Not every fighter spell will sell, you will be required to so some research.</DIV> <DIV>As a sage i know that i have to avoid those spells with common adept drop, i know i have to avoid the spells for the opposite city and i have to avoid budd/debuff spells as they dont do much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I make the rest, and make 2-3 of the best selling ones.</DIV> <DIV>I sell anywhere between 5-20 spells per night, with the average around 10.</DIV> <DIV>T5 spells sell for 7 gold, so that would leave me with a healthy profit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should be able to sell as much as i do with some research. In addition you have poisons and potions.</DIV> <DIV>Take notes of what you sell, make some extra copies of them. consider making adept III of the best selling ones.</DIV>

Valhu

03-17-2005, 08:18 PM

<P>I think it is a good change.... crafters need to be able to make magical weapons especially, cause right now crafted weapons are useless against certain mobs.... and alchys need something to make.....</P> <P>Is it the perfect fix? Maybe not... but I would rather that they keep trying to work it out than just let crafters languish</P> <P>It's defienetly a step forward and not back in my opinion.</P>

Valhu

03-17-2005, 08:21 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> z3oslo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Not every fighter spell will sell, you will be required to so some research.</DIV> <DIV>As a sage i know that i have to avoid those spells with common adept drop, i know i have to avoid the spells for the opposite city and i have to avoid budd/debuff spells as they dont do much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I make the rest, and make 2-3 of the best selling ones.</DIV> <DIV>I sell anywhere between 5-20 spells per night, with the average around 10.</DIV> <DIV>T5 spells sell for 7 gold, so that would leave me with a healthy profit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should be able to sell as much as i do with some research. In addition you have poisons and potions.</DIV> <DIV>Take notes of what you sell, make some extra copies of them. consider making adept III of the best selling ones.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I have an Alchy and a Sage... and from my experience it is much much easier to sell Priest and Mage scrolls than fighter essances.... for the same price, same quality, same level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fighters seem to spend much more time looking for gear than spells. This is only the way it looks on my server, but it is very cut and dry.... the sell rates are not even close.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Trink

03-17-2005, 08:25 PM

<blockquote><hr>z3oslo wrote:<DIV><FONT color=#6699ff>Alchemist have nothing that is desirable in any way</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Yes you do, but you will be required to actually make them and put them up for sale ...</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My ranger would love to buy your poisons, but i cant, cause they are never for sale.</DIV> <DIV>Those for sale are from other scouts, charging 1 gold or more per posion, AND they have been used..</DIV> <DIV>Fighters want app4 and adept3, but again you need to make them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The few alchemists on my server that DOES make them, make good money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to the subject, i wish SOE could be consistant. dependancy today, but not tomorrow, a few weeks later we have dependancy again. </DIV> <DIV>Not thrilled about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>What server are you on?? I've had over 30 poisons/potions on my broker for the last four days at 1gp each (these are t5) and I have sold ONE!And essences? Hah! I've sold 0.

Tradeskill_Addict

03-17-2005, 08:29 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valhuru wrote:<BR> <P>I think it is a good change.... crafters need to be able to make magical weapons especially, cause right now crafted weapons are useless against certain mobs.... and <FONT color=#99ff00>alchys need something to make.....</FONT></P> <P>Is it the perfect fix? Maybe not... but I would rather that they keep trying to work it out than just let crafters languish</P> <P>It's defienetly a step forward and not back in my opinion.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>to bring back interdependency (for a SINGLE CLASS) just because <FONT color=#99ff00>"alchys need something to make....."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I hope at least SOE has based the idea of enhancement on something else....</DIV>

z3oslo

03-17-2005, 08:37 PM

<DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>Fighters seem to spend much more time looking for gear than spells</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT>I think this might be a truth with some modifications.</DIV> <DIV>After checking broker several times for poisons, just to find well .. nothing .. i have more or less given up.</DIV> <DIV>This would be the case with essences as well.</DIV> <DIV>If they cant find apps they are looking for, they will stop looking at some point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anywho, i dont want to hijack this thread.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As stated, im not thrilled about return of dependacy. It feels like a hasty solution to me.</DIV> <DIV>However, buffs on rings weapons and armor is interesting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

WarklaW

03-17-2005, 08:53 PM

I was hoping they would do something like this. I never liked the interdependancy system. However, that's not what this is. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This allows a crafter to choose how they want to make their end item.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Harvesters will make money - for the harvest.</DIV> <DIV>Scholars will make money - for the potions, jewelery, spells, etc.</DIV> <DIV>Crafters will make money - for the furnature, food, containers, etc.</DIV> <DIV>Outfitters will make money - for the armor, weapons, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What's not to like? I already don't sell food. I can't sell furnature. I'm not an outfitter, so I don't sell those items. I still sell spell upgrades - not a lot - but enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think this would offer something new to all of our wares that would be desireable to the consumer. And maybe allow us to finally compete with drops.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Olivexe

03-17-2005, 09:08 PM

<DIV>In regards to the dependency issues of the new items has anyone gone on test yet and purchased a book or two to see what dependencies are contained in the recipes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The test update notes appear to imply an alchemist only dependency but until someone actually looks at the recipes this is all speculation. And unfortunately tempers are starting to rise within this thread over something we don't know fully yet.</DIV>

Zasarix

03-17-2005, 09:11 PM

<DIV>All I have to say as an alchemist:<BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>MWAHAHAHAHHAHHA</FONT></STRONG></DIV>

Troodon

03-17-2005, 09:42 PM

I can see where you're comming from Tradeskill_Addict, though I still dont agree.That said, this does seem to be a bit of a solution in search of a problem.Without redesigning the entirty of Tradeskilling, they could go a long way to fixing it by just making it more expensive to make items using the new skills. Thus a non specialist can still obtain interims and isnt at the mercy of the market, but it still gives a profit margin for specialist; which is what I and I think many were assuming how it was going to work. Regarding the problems Alchemists face, rather than introducing a new market, why not fix the problems with the existing ones, that is:- Make potions more enticing, frankly does anyone use them? They need specifically information on how long they last in the description. They need to last longer and significantly they just need a plain boost. When you splash out on a potion there should be some noticable improvement in your combat, otherwise why bother with them?- Make them stackable (if they're not already).- Make poisions more enticing than vendor bought ones. Im not saying nerf vendor ones as scout classes are dependent upon them for dps, just give people a reason to bother with player made ones. More charges, more useful effects. I think I remember reading a thread in the Alchemy forum where someone tried to do a posion promotion, they couldnt even give them away for free.Now if I was in charge. Id seriously consider redesigning Tradeskills rather than just chipping at the edges:- Dependency was good, though it was in need of significant ballancing. Every class should produce something that someone else needs. No class should be core and thus dominate, niether should any class be isolated.- All consumable items need to be produced in bulk. Im specifically refering to provisioner produced items. Prices wont drop until someone can produce more than one item at a time. For them to do this they need to rework the provisioner recipie structure to prevent cascading amplification.- Consider means to provide alternative forms of crafter employment:- - Ditch attunement, introduce durability. Let crafters in on the act of item repair. Specifically tailor it so crafters a tier below are able to repair the items of a tier above.- - They've hinted at the posibility of item customisation with this patch, why not open it up to all crafters? Give crafters the ability to customise the appearance any appropriate item. E.g. My plate helm doesnt match my breastplate, looks nasty really. Why cant I take it to a amoursmith of dye?- - Consider having one interim of a final recipe to come from a tier below, thus alow up comming crafters to supply part of what an experienced crafter needs.

Lou

03-17-2005, 10:52 PM

<DIV>There is something very important in all of this that you all need to realize. BOTH sides of this arguement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is gonna be RARE. Currently, I don't get any work for rare inks ingame. Noone does. Noone buys them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why? Cause they are only popular among guilds. And guilds have their own high level Alchs. They make rare inks, just like they are going to make these items.</DIV> <DIV>You will never see them on the broker. These will remain in guilds ONLY until everyone in all the good guilds have these new "enchanted" items with this Alchy made item.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>THEN you may see some on the broker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But this isn't going to be like worts or something. This isn't a FIX to the absolutely behind drubbing they gave to the Alchemist class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your average Alchy will NEVER see action from these, and those that do are going to be guilded...and guess what? They either don't need money cause the guild gives them whatever they need, or they DO need the money, but because it's for a guildy friend, they aren't going to make money off of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Trust me. Those whining that more than just Alchy's should be able to do this...don't worry. You'll NEVER see this stuff. Well...for a long time anyways.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And those Alchy's saying it's a fix to our borked class...your morons! Cause you'll never see profit from this either! Again....maybe a long time down the road as I said earlier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's not worth fighting over. I know I'll get orders for these from my guild whenever ONE IS FOUND...but I don't get paid for it. /shrug So this is all gonna be worthless to us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rares are rare now....these things....gonna be like finding, and having dinner with Jesus Christ himself.</DIV>

Xiomba

03-17-2005, 10:54 PM

I agree that potions should be made better, but to remove attunenment and replace it with durability loss and the ability to repair equipment is much to complicated.They should do 2 things however to make to current system work: the skills (and their buffs!) apothecary, geomancy, weaving and timbercraft should be much worse than the normal skills, so that an alchemist will be able to make much more pristine WORTs (ahnd maybe also significantly faster) than other crafters using the apothecary skill.Items that are needed for end products (pattern, paddings, buckles and the like) shouldnt only need 2 fuels when using apothecary, geomancy, weaving and timbercraft but atleast 4.This will enable people to sell these products (tailors can sell paddings and sages pattern again and so on) and make a bit more profit. Making one T 5 item for 9s22 profit is just not enough. So with these changes a crafter can buy for example studs from a jeweler rather than make them himself, but if no jeweler is around and he needs them urgently he still has the change to make them himself. I believe that this was the big problem with sages and why they changed the whole interdependancy thing, because alchemists usually didnt want to sell their inks to them.

Alas

03-17-2005, 10:57 PM

<P>OMG. I am so sick of this. How in the world, by allowing alchemists the ability to make an enhancement (which all players, both artisan and adventurers should be RAVING about), is SOE bringing back interdependency??? Is this going to make it so ANY crafter, and I mean ANY crafter, is unable to craft? I remember the BIG whinning before they wiped interdependency. The big complaint was that people actually got STUCK, and could not craft at all, because of the need for alchemists. SOE fixed that. You now can craft ALL you want with absolutely no interruptions. This change does NOT prevent you from crafting in ANY way!!! My goodness. It will make it so your stuff is MORE desireable. Don't you see that. People complain that crafted items are not wanted by adventurers. THIS FIXES THAT!! Because of YOUR greed, you complain in the face of what you all have been asking for for MONTHS.</P> <P>I suppose I just need to get used to the fact, that there will ALWAYS be whiners like you ALL (those that whine) in every game as well as real life. I know...lets eliminate all classes, both artisan and adventurer so its FAIR to everyone. My lord people. Do you realize how much you would HATE this game if everyone were equal? THINK before you whine. You really dont want what you are asking for.</P> <P> </P> <P>Throwar</P> <P>36 swashbuckler</P> <P>Leader of the guild Virtue</P> <P>Antonia Bayle</P> <P> </P> <P>P.S. "While you are on your Tirade of whining, why dont you complain that every adventure class cant heal, or escape, or use bows, or go invisible, or do alot of damage, or.........See what I mean. Eventually if you try to make things FAIR, it can get, and currently IS GETTING, out of control. Do you really want every class to be equal? Shhhhhhhhhhh.....stop complaining.....life is full of choices, so should this game. Make your choice and LIVE with it!</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Alasti on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:59 AM</span>

Baelzharon

03-17-2005, 11:09 PM

<blockquote><hr>Alasti wrote: <P>OMG. I am so sick of this. How in the world, by allowing alchemists the ability to make an enhancement (which all players, both artisan and adventurers should be RAVING about), is SOE bringing back interdependency??? Is this going to make it so ANY crafter, and I mean ANY crafter, is unable to craft? I remember the BIG whinning before they wiped interdependency. The big complaint was that people actually got STUCK, and could not craft at all, because of the need for alchemists. SOE fixed that. You now can craft ALL you want with absolutely no interruptions. This change does NOT prevent you from crafting in ANY way!!! My goodness. It will make it so your stuff is MORE desireable. Don't you see that. People complain that crafted items are not wanted by adventurers. THIS FIXES THAT!! Because of YOUR greed, you complain in the face of what you all have been asking for for MONTHS.</P> <P>I suppose I just need to get used to the fact, that there will ALWAYS be whiners like you ALL (those that whine) in every game as well as real life. I know...lets eliminate all classes, both artisan and adventurer so its FAIR to everyone. My lord people. Do you realize how much you would HATE this game if everyone were equal? THINK before you whine. You really dont want what you are asking for.</P> <P> </P> <P>Throwar</P> <P>36 swashbuckler</P> <P>Leader of the guild Virtue</P> <P>Antonia Bayle</P> <P> </P> <P>P.S. "While you are on your Tirade of whining, why dont you complain that every adventure class cant heal, or escape, or use bows, or go invisible, or do alot of damage, or.........See what I mean. Eventually if you try to make things FAIR, it can get, and currently IS GETTING, out of control. Do you really want every class to be equal? Shhhhhhhhhhh.....stop complaining.....life is full of choices, so should this game. Make your choice and LIVE with it!</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Alasti on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:59 AM</span><hr></blockquote>Exactly, there is nothing stopping Bob the Armorer from making armor and still selling it without ever so much as blinking an eye at an alchemist. The main problem in the past was Crafters could not even level up without alchemists, and this was causing players to simply get stuck unless they had enough money to level. What's to stop Adventurers from hirering an alchemist to make XYZ Enchantments that they then bring over to the appropriate Weaponsmith/armorer etc and have them make the item of choice with the enchantment they baught, and paying the other Crafter of course. Nothing in this system has changed other then Alchemists now have a new line of items to sell, and the other crafters now have a new service to sell (Enchanting Equipment). I think it would be pure folly infact for crafters to pre-enchant equipment because there is no telling if that enchantment would find a market. Better to just make the equipment, keep a stock of enchantments and final combine at the point of sale, or let the adventurer provide their enchantments.

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 12:41 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alasti wrote:<BR> <P> I know...lets eliminate all classes, both artisan and adventurer so its FAIR to everyone. My lord people. Do you realize how much you would HATE this game if everyone were equal? THINK before you whine. You really dont want what you are asking for.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>For the sake of the united states I can only hope you're not a US citizen. because afair EQUALITY is one of the principles americans are proud of.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>YES I want everyone to be EQUAL, YES I want it to be FAIR, YES I want INDEPENDENCE (isnt there a holiday even named independence day?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Want I DONT want though is UNIFORMITY in case thats what you meant (gosh I hope YOU arent a native english speaker.....)</DIV>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 12:44 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR><BR>Exactly, there is nothing stopping Bob the Armorer from making armor and still selling it without ever so much as blinking an eye at an alchemist. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>nice try but.....bob the armorer will end up with armorer recipes he cant do without doing MORE than blinking an eye at an alchemist.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>currently no class will find any recipe in their books they cant make completely on their own - this is gonna change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>tell me you dont mind or tell me you love it but DONT tell me its not gonna be as i desrcibed.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:45 AM</span>

Blackdog183

03-18-2005, 01:05 AM

<P>Okay the simplest argument that will end all this [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing and moaning that is going on here is this...</P> <P>1. Alchemist make the enchancement, which can be bought and added to the equipment by ANYONE.</P> <P>this solves the following:</P> <P>1. All you whiners can craft until your [Removed for Content] fingers fall off in your own little secluded world and bot away until your hearts content</P> <P>2. Alchemist now have a viable product line</P> <P>3. Adventurers get a viable product line</P> <P>3. All you whiners no get more desirable items that the adcenturers add the enhacements too themselves.</P> <P> </P> <P>This eliminates your entire argument from the situation, but of course there will be those of you that will come up with some lame [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] exuse to try to justify why my system isnt the best way to solve the problem, as a means to try to cover up the fact that you want to pay a little for a enhancent made by an alchey and charge 10x what it costs you to get. Or better yet, make it yourself and charge even more.</P>

RoseWhi

03-18-2005, 01:08 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Harovan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Is there something with my eyes, or did I just catch the author of the famous "Welcome to Everwhine" troll thread whining?<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I am not asking for a change, I just stated that I am not happy with it and that I have some concerns on behalf of other players.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>In other words, you are whining.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A simple "Yes" to Tradeskill's question would have been sufficient :smileytongue:</DIV>

MaenaBowy

03-18-2005, 01:11 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <BR><BR> <DIV>For the sake of the united states I can only hope you're not a US citizen. because afair EQUALITY is one of the principles americans are proud of.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I believe that is communism you're thinking of.<BR>

Widgetblaster

03-18-2005, 01:20 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alasti wrote:<BR> <P> I know...lets eliminate all classes, both artisan and adventurer so its FAIR to everyone. My lord people. Do you realize how much you would HATE this game if everyone were equal? THINK before you whine. You really dont want what you are asking for.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>For the sake of the united states I can only hope you're not a US citizen. because afair EQUALITY is one of the principles americans are proud of.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>YES I want everyone to be EQUAL, YES I want it to be FAIR, YES I want INDEPENDENCE (isnt there a holiday even named independence day?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Want I DONT want though is UNIFORMITY in case thats what you meant (gosh I hope YOU arent a native english speaker.....)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually, what we like is Equal Access to Opportunity, which is not the same thing.</P> <P>Everyone in EQ2 starts the same way...a waterlogged refuge standing in the sand on the Isle of Refuge. From that point onward, it's what you do with the choices and tools in game that determines where you end up. THAT'S the American dream, not overregulation that takes resources from the successful person and hands them to the lazy or unlucky person so that everyone can be equally mediocre.</P> <P>Ok. Return to topic... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 01:23 AM

<P>Now THIS is a true gem!</P> <P>first <FONT color=#99ff00>you can see <FONT color=#ffff00>Baelzharon</FONT> writing about *bob the armorer* in the test forum (this very thread):</FONT><BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>Baelzharon</FONT> wrote:<BR><BR>Exactly, <FONT color=#99ff00>there is nothing stopping Bob the Armorer from making armor and still selling it without ever so much as blinking an eye at an alchemist.</FONT> The main problem in the past was Crafters could not even level up without alchemists, and this was causing players to simply get stuck unless they had enough money to level. What's to stop Adventurers from hirering an alchemist to make XYZ Enchantments that they then bring over to the appropriate Weaponsmith/armorer etc and have them make the item of choice with the enchantment they baught, and paying the other Crafter of course. Nothing in this system has changed other then Alchemists now have a new line of items to sell, and the other crafters now have a new service to sell (Enchanting Equipment). I think it would be pure folly infact for crafters to pre-enchant equipment because there is no telling if that enchantment would find a market. Better to just make the equipment, keep a stock of enchantments and final combine at the point of sale, or let the adventurer provide their enchantments.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>AND you can see </FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>Baelzharon</FONT><FONT color=#99ff00> writing about *bob the armorer* in the ALCHEMY forum:</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Baelzharon</FONT> wrote:<BR><BR>One of the biggest source of income pre-nerf for me was selling Inks and WROTs to other crafters, and now it looks like some of that action is coming back. The demand for these enchantments is going to be through the roof, and everyone is going to be looking at us to provide them. <FONT color=#99ff00>We'll have more opportunities to move products then most other crafters again because where as Bob the Armorer has only the time/customers to make 10 breastplates I'll have 10 Bobs buying 10 enchantments from me (100 total).</FONT> Any alchemist who doesn't see this as a boon to our business isn't looking too far past their own nose.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Theres nothing to add</P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 01:29 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Marcalus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, what we like is Equal Access to Opportunity, which is not the same thing.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Access...i like the word.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about giving an armorer access to making the best recipes he'll find in his new books?</DIV>

Baelzharon

03-18-2005, 01:38 AM

Nice try Tradeskill_Addict, but two different contexts. One was regarding crafters feeling like they needed us all over again to level up, and the other was to an alchemist who was argueing that they didn't like the old system of Inks and Wrots and likened it to this new one. That is untrue, since crafters won't need us at all to level up and make equipment (like the old system), and anyone can buy Enchantments be it crafter or not. And yes, I will try my hardest to make alliances with other crafters (Like Bob the Armorer) so I can make these things wholesale. I hate crafting junk and letting it sit on the broker for days on end while everyone plays the undercut game.

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 01:41 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR>Nice try Tradeskill_Addict, but two different contexts. One was regarding crafters feeling like they needed us all over again to level up, and the other was to an alchemist who was argueing that they didn't like the old system of Inks and Wrots and likened it to this new one. That is untrue, since crafters won't need us at all to level up and make equipment (like the old system), and anyone can buy Enchantments be it crafter or not. And yes, I will try my hardest to make alliances with other crafters (Like Bob the Armorer) so I can make these things wholesale. I hate crafting junk and letting it sit on the broker for days on end while everyone plays the undercut game.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>speaks a cornered rat<BR>

Alas

03-18-2005, 01:57 AM

<P>Tradeskill addict, If you didnt sense the sarcasm in my above post, you really have no business commenting on any of the post in the forums.</P> <P>Throwar</P>

Baelzharon

03-18-2005, 02:00 AM

LOL stop being a jerk. No flaming here will change what the devs will put into place. Why don't you go level up an alchemist to T5 and quit whining about it already... ***NEWS FLASH*** Alchemists will try and make a profit off of Enchantment sales!!Now tell me Mr. Whiner what is stopping you from double or eveb trippling your prices on enchanted items and [Removed for Content] adventurers because you had to buy an enchantment for probably next to nothing, or even craft one yourself with your Alchy alt?

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 02:07 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR>LOL stop being a jerk. No flaming here will change what the devs will put into place. Why don't you go level up an alchemist to T5 and quit whining about it already... <BR><BR>***NEWS FLASH*** Alchemists will try and make a profit off of Enchantment sales!!<BR><BR>Now tell me Mr. Whiner what is stopping you from double or eveb trippling your prices on enchanted items and [Removed for Content] adventurers because you had to buy an enchantment for probably next to nothing, or even craft one yourself with your Alchy alt?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I have no prices to triple because I only craft for myself. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the non-pristines and left-over interims is what the broker gets. I dont craft for profit.</DIV>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 02:13 AM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alasti wrote:<BR> <P>Tradeskill addict, If you didnt sense the sarcasm in my above post, you really have no business commenting on any of the post in the forums.</P> <P>Throwar</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>THIS is sarcasm????</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Alasti wrote:<BR><BR>OMG. I am so sick of this. How in the world, by allowing alchemists the ability to make an enhancement (which all players, both artisan and adventurers should be RAVING about), is SOE bringing back interdependency??? Is this going to make it so ANY crafter, and I mean ANY crafter, is unable to craft? I remember the BIG whinning before they wiped interdependency. The big complaint was that people actually got STUCK, and could not craft at all, because of the need for alchemists. SOE fixed that. You now can craft ALL you want with absolutely no interruptions. This change does NOT prevent you from crafting in ANY way!!! My goodness. It will make it so your stuff is MORE desireable. Don't you see that. People complain that crafted items are not wanted by adventurers. THIS FIXES THAT!! Because of YOUR greed, you complain in the face of what you all have been asking for for MONTHS.</P> <P>I suppose I just need to get used to the fact, that there will ALWAYS be whiners like you ALL (those that whine) in every game as well as real life. I know...lets eliminate all classes, both artisan and adventurer so its FAIR to everyone. My lord people. Do you realize how much you would HATE this game if everyone were equal? THINK before you whine. You really dont want what you are asking for.</P> <P>P.S. "While you are on your Tirade of whining, why dont you complain that every adventure class cant heal, or escape, or use bows, or go invisible, or do alot of damage, or.........See what I mean. Eventually if you try to make things FAIR, it can get, and currently IS GETTING, out of control. Do you really want every class to be equal? Shhhhhhhhhhh.....stop complaining.....life is full of choices, so should this game. Make your choice and LIVE with it!</P> <P></P> <HR> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>Not even Andy Kaufman would have called that sarcasm.....sounds more like Tony Clifton to me</FONT></P></DIV>

Baelzharon

03-18-2005, 02:16 AM

<blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have no prices to triple because I only craft for myself. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the non-pristines and left-over interims is what the broker gets. I dont craft for profit.</DIV><hr></blockquote>LOL then why are you complaining? You'll buy such a small amount of enchantments that the price will be negligiable compared to full time crafters who make items for other people. So you've been argueing this whole time because you personally don't want to have to buy something off another crafter?? WOW, that's a pretty selfish point of view. Do you buy food and drink or make that for yourself too?

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 02:25 AM

<DIV>Apart from many other poster here I mainly think about whats wrong or right, what benefits the economy and what not. if i make money then on backpacks and these are not on the list of enchantables I guess so theres nothing left for me than to repeat my bottomline of:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It does not make sense to remove class interdependency for ALL and to reinstall it for ONE class. its not fair, it does nothing for the economy it's just plain wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS: I made a provisioner exactly high enough to make my own tier2 food&drink - this will have to be suffienct for the next 20 lvls. it was boring and tedious and I will never do something like that again.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Alas

03-18-2005, 02:34 AM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alasti wrote:<BR> <P> I know...lets eliminate all classes, both artisan and adventurer so its FAIR to everyone. My lord people. Do you realize how much you would HATE this game if everyone were equal? THINK before you whine. You really dont want what you are asking for.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was referring to this part Buddy...not the body of my post...YOU are the one who singled THIS part out</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Throwar</DIV>

some_perso

03-18-2005, 02:55 AM

<DIV>Omg, I'll make money again.. the sky is falling. Now I can sell these enchantments at t4 for 1pp a combine! Hahahaha!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously though, with the lfw tag and the ability to search for ppl by there tradeskill profession will finding an alchemist that won't screw u be that hard? Are you really gonna be forced to pay so much that it'd been more worth your time to lvl an alchemist alt? The game's a little older now, and there's more competition everywhere. And all u gotta do when u find that alchemist that charges a fair price is /friend him to get the fair price again and again. The game is about interaction you know. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also Blackdog has a point, we can always do away with interdependicies by giving the enchantments entirely to the alchemists. I mean the other way is just giving them entirely to the other crafters. Of coarse this would be overpowering to the alchemists, so they have the other crafters do the last step. The games not about independence, we're not supposed to solo through an MMORPG, its about balance and I don't think this small interdependency over an "uncommon" combine will unbalance the system. Hell, that one guy had a point when he said this might not really do anything if the new harvestable's are too rare.</DIV>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 03:02 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> some_person6 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also Blackdog has a point, we can always do away with interdependicies by giving the enchantments entirely to the alchemists. I mean the other way is just giving them entirely to the other crafters. Of coarse this would be overpowering to the alchemists, so they have the other crafters do the last step. The games not about independence, we're not supposed to solo through an MMORPG, its about balance and I don't think this small interdependency over an "uncommon" combine will unbalance the system. Hell, that one guy had a point when he said this might not really do anything if the new harvestable's are too rare.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>since you mentioned Blackdog, this poster had an even better idea than the currently tested one:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=10653" target=_blank><FONT color=#99ff00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=10653</FONT></A></P> <P>Her(?) idea will even give more opportunities AND business to alchemists and I fully support it because it stays consistent with the current system imo.</P>

Blackdog183

03-18-2005, 05:30 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> some_person6 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also Blackdog has a point, we can always do away with interdependicies by giving the enchantments entirely to the alchemists. I mean the other way is just giving them entirely to the other crafters. Of coarse this would be overpowering to the alchemists, so they have the other crafters do the last step. The games not about independence, we're not supposed to solo through an MMORPG, its about balance and I don't think this small interdependency over an "uncommon" combine will unbalance the system. Hell, that one guy had a point when he said this might not really do anything if the new harvestable's are too rare.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>since you mentioned Blackdog, this poster had an even better idea than the currently tested one:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=10653" target=_blank><FONT color=#99ff00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=10653</FONT></A></P> <P>Her(?) idea will even give more opportunities AND business to alchemists and I fully support it because it stays consistent with the current system imo.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Umm that OP was me, and was the same idea I had posted here, was trying to keep that one from turning into a flame fest*shrug*</P> <P>Hopefully the devs realize that this current system will *possibly* create problems and change it to the way I suggested(or something very simliar) and eliminate the argument,</P>

Trei

03-18-2005, 12:56 PM

["... since you mentioned Blackdog, this poster had an even better idea than the currently tested one:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=10653Her(?) idea will even give more opportunities AND business to alchemists and I fully support it because it stays consistent with the current system imo. ..."]* the suggested idea directly benefits ONLY alchemists.adventurers buy proc ($ -> alchs) and DIY from there.* the current one in testing is beneficial to not just alchemists but also to all the end product crafters. adventurers gotta buy the procs ($ -> alchs)then find the right crafter to apply the procs ($ -> crafters)and you are COMPLAINING about THAT?w-t-f <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

missionarymarr

03-18-2005, 01:20 PM

<DIV>First of all Tradeskill is right this is bringing back interdependcy and basically forcing all crafters to need a Alchemist. It all depends on how rare these new components are and how nice they make the new items. If a player can find one of these components in say a hour or so of harvesting and the new items are much superior to the old items. Then yes every other crafter is going to be dependent on alchemists to make any of their items. No player will buy any regular armor without the new enhancements. If the new component is as rare as the rares are now or even rarer then this won't change much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall though I think this was something of a poor decision based on their getting rid of interdependency. They instead should have made improvements to potions and poisons so that alchemists have a useful product to sell. Or at least allow these new enhancements be something a player adds to items he already has. Therefore not making it harder for other crafters to sell their products without being dependent on a alchemist. This system though definately cause lots of complaints once we find out how rare the new components are.</DIV>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 03:26 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trei49 wrote:<BR>["... since you mentioned Blackdog, this poster had an even better idea than the currently tested one:<BR><BR>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=10653<BR><BR>Her(?) idea will even give more opportunities AND business to alchemists and I fully support it because it stays consistent with the current system imo. ..."]<BR><BR><BR>* the suggested idea directly benefits ONLY alchemists.<BR>adventurers buy proc ($ -> alchs) and DIY from there.<BR><BR>* the current one in testing is beneficial to not just alchemists but also to all the end product crafters. <BR>adventurers gotta buy the procs ($ -> alchs)<BR>then find the right crafter to apply the procs ($ -> crafters)<BR><BR>and you are COMPLAINING about THAT?<BR>w-t-f <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#99ff00>this is how i would like it to see</FONT> (from this thread: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=10653" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffcc00>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=10653</FONT></A> <FONT color=#ffcc00><FONT color=#ffffff>)</FONT><BR></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think Blackdog has a much better idea than SOE did in its update</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back in EQL there had been auguments both as drops and craftable (coming with GoD) and it added a lot to adventuring and crafting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, Alchemists should be able to craft auguments and sell them, I agree 100% . Personally I <EM>think</EM> that these crafted auguments should only be able to worked into gear by the appropriate crafting class. Not only would this allow crafters to produce a variety of gear it would also bring a lot of live into the economy as for the first time people could actually buy/craft stuff that is *tailored* to their classes needs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adventurers shouldnt be left out of course - make auguments drop too and to make them desirable they should be augumentable by everyone without a crafting process.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So there would be a split market for auguments crafted for crafters and looted for *looters*. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let dropped auguments be removable so adventurers wouldnt take so much loss at upgrading and <EM>attunement </EM>suddenly wouldnt be that much of a problem anymore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>you see - i wanted alchemists to have some *kind of* endproduct they can sell to crafters for enhancement and dropped type so adventureres (including crafting adventurers) would stay independent too.</P> <P>who - except for moneycrafting alchemists (and they are a minority I think, if a loud one) would complain about such a solution?<BR></P>

Amise

03-18-2005, 03:42 PM

<P>This is not interdependancy. It's not even dependancy. Nobody is forcing anybody to use enchantments. A BP is a finished saleable product whether it is enchanted or not. As soon as I hit level 40 I bought a set of fulginate chain and two or three items of crafted jewelry. As I level and find new items I'm upgrading. But at the start of every tier I buy a full set of crafted armor and I will continue to do so whether it's enchanted or not. From looking at the vast amount of chain and plate wears out there wearing fulginate (and ebon to a lesser extent) I would suspect a lot of people do this. And I doubt very much that it is going to change once these additions go live.</P> <P>Enchantments are a way of <STRONG>enhancing</STRONG> a finished product, I highly doubt they are intended to <STRONG>replace</STRONG> the finished product in a way that will force crafters to enchant every item they make. I simply don't see that happening, no matter how good enchantments are.</P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 03:50 PM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amise wrote:<BR> <P>Enchantments are a way of <STRONG>enhancing</STRONG> a finished product, I highly doubt they are intended to <STRONG>replace</STRONG> the finished product in a way that will force crafters to enchant every item they make. I simply don't see that happening, no matter how good enchantments are.<BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>so you think crafters will still be able to sell un-enchanted stuff? :smileysurprised: Lets hear what the adventurers have to say about un-enchanted gear :smileywink:</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> Araking wrote:<BR> <P>If no,a lot of ppl wasted ton of money for crappy non-proc equipment.<BR>Dev,plz give us one time chance /detune such like /respec for trait.</P> <HR> <P></P> <HR> Syanis wrote:<BR> <P>I want to know about this as well. I've been spending a fortune buying ebon clusters and getting them made into armor.... on my server ebon clusters run about 2p per cluster and few armorers who will and can make higher ebon stuff charge 30gp a pop per combine. I'll be extremely [Removed for Content] if I can't have my stuff enhanced like everyone else.</P> <HR> <P></P> <P></P> <HR> Miyu-Legacy wrote:<BR>Adding my voice, having full rare gear and now you add the ability to augment them...... really really poor planning soe, you know alot of people will be very angry.<BR> <HR> <P></P> <HR> benbang wrote:<BR> <P>[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], I'm really mad. Just spent 6 plats last week on Ebon....why didn't they warn me before I wasted my entire life saving?</P> <DIV>I figure I would be able to use Ebon for 3 months before expansion before something else better come along <HR> </DIV> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>If you want more check the half-dozen threads allready existing just for the "my precious gear will become crap-issue" <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></FONT></P></DIV>

missionarymarr

03-18-2005, 03:53 PM

<DIV> <P> I</P> <HR> Amise wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is not interdependancy. It's not even dependancy. Nobody is forcing anybody to use enchantments. A BP is a finished saleable product whether it is enchanted or not. As soon as I hit level 40 I bought a set of fulginate chain and two or three items of crafted jewelry. As I level and find new items I'm upgrading. But at the start of every tier I buy a full set of crafted armor and I will continue to do so whether it's enchanted or not. From looking at the vast amount of chain and plate wears out there wearing fulginate (and ebon to a lesser extent) I would suspect a lot of people do this. And I doubt very much that it is going to change once these additions go live.</P> <P>Enchantments are a way of <STRONG>enhancing</STRONG> a finished product, I highly doubt they are intended to <STRONG>replace</STRONG> the finished product in a way that will force crafters to enchant every item they make. I simply don't see that happening, no matter how good enchantments are.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Then I think you are being shortsighted. I have played quite a few MMO's and players will always be after new items. This change will definately cause lots of players to only want to buy Armor or such with enhancements. The only way it won't is if the new materials are so rare you won't be able to find them even harvesting for hours on end.</P></DIV>

Weesta

03-18-2005, 03:55 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Harovan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Is there something with my eyes, or did I just catch the author of the famous "Welcome to Everwhine" troll thread whining?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL

Nuvi

03-18-2005, 05:09 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>from: </FONT><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=31" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffffff>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=31</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** New Harvested Items and Recipes ***</FONT></STRONG> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>- There are new types of uncommon harvested items to be found. They can be gathered from existing harvesting nodes and are identified as glowing, sparkling, glimmering, or luminous depending on their level range.<BR>- New recipe books are available for purchase at the camps of the Hand of Marr and Brethren of Night. Those wishing to buy the books will need to first earn favor with the merchants.<BR>- Using these new recipes and new harvested items,</FONT> <FONT color=#99ff00>Alchemists can create magical extracts that other crafters can use to make new items or enhance existing goods.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I think its not fair to make every other TS dependent to a single class again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As usual i will try my best to adapt to the new situation - luckily I mainly do backpacks for my own character and just sell the leftovers and I guess there wont be *enchanted* backpacks but I cant say I am happy with that change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <SPAN class=date_text>03-17-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:19 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>this will give armor/weapon smiths more to do,so they will make more money aswell,i dont really see the problem here,thats like an adventurer saying "oh?i have to group to be able to get raid loot?but i want to be able to solo to get my master1 skill"</P> <P>this change doesnt stop ur leveling,its a bonus like some stuff u can gain while grouping.</P> <P><BR> </P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 06:02 PM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nuvian wrote:<BR> <P>this change doesnt stop ur leveling,its a bonus like some stuff u can gain while grouping.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>currently<EM> every</EM> crafter can produce <EM>every </EM>recipe for his class on his own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with this patch he no longer can - except for <EM>alchemists</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>these to sentences are the simply undeniable truth......now read them slowly...read them again...think about it....</DIV> <DIV>....and now tell me you honestly think its a change for the better for <EM>everyone</EM></DIV></DIV>

Nuvi

03-18-2005, 06:21 PM

<DIV>your talking like its a must for all classes to focus on iteme enchantment,the truth it that its not,i dont have an alch so this doesnt effect me at all,but why should you be able to do everything in the game crafting wise without having to "depend" on other classes for some recipes?as an adventurer i cant do everything my class was designed to do without help some times,and same should go for crafters,i was sure weaponsmiths,tailors,armor smiths would be happy with these new changes that would make crafted items more popular again,but it seems that insted of being happy about the change and the fact that you can create new cool stuff only gives some ppl a reason to whine about other things,if u wanted a totaly solo game you picked the wrong game,everquest 2 is a team game in its core,and that shouldnt only apply to adventurers.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Nuvian on <span class=date_text>03-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:22 AM</span>

Baelzharon

03-18-2005, 06:46 PM

You guys are completely missing my point, so I will spell it out for you hopefully in a way you can finally comprehend. Scenerio 1. Adventurer A, goes out harvesting and gets lucky and finds a few enchantments raws. Adventurer A decides he'd like some enchanted armor made and hires Mr. Alchemist to make the exact enchantments he/she wants. Adventurer A with his enchantment now hires our famous Bob the Armorer to make some Pristine Armor which includes the Enchantments. Bob is happy Adventurer A is happy Mr. Alchemist is happy Scenerio 2. Bob the Armorer who's noticed an influx if requests to make Pristine Armor with Enchantment A decides to pre-order a batch of Enchantment A in hopes to get lucky in the market. Bob the Armorer types /who all LFW alchemist and lo and behold finds a few he strikes a deal with. Bob the Armorer pre-makes a bunch of enchanted armor and puts it on the broker and sells a few. Bob is happy A lot of adventurers are happy Mr. Alchemist is happy Scenerio 3. Bill the fledgling Armorer is leveling up and decides to crank out a load of armor in an XP spurt to hit the next Tier. At the end of his work he just places all the pristine up on the Broker to clear out the bank space. Mr. Alchemist has a surpluss of enchantments and decides to throw some up on the broker. Adventurer A see's a bargain and buys a set of armor, and some enchantments and then types: /who all LFW armorer and lo and behold finds Bob the Armorer is LFW, and Adventurer A hires Bob to enchant the armor. Bob is happy Adventurer A is happy Mr. Alchemist is happy And Bill the fledgling Armorer is happy. I hope this helps remove some confusion and bigotry being thrown around in this thread toward Alchemists. No one should find fault in these scenerios because they are common place every today in EQ2 without enchantments, and I don't see that changing one bit when enchantments enter the situation. I get hired by many types (Adventurers and Crafters alike) to make Rare ink, which is then brought to a Sage or Jeweler to make Adept III's. No one is ever upset at paying for my services and they all come back for more. That is part of a healthy economy, and not this Startrek wannabe Communism some of you are trying to force down our throtes. <div></div>

Platfing

03-18-2005, 07:56 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nuvian wrote:<BR> <P>this change doesnt stop ur leveling,its a bonus like some stuff u can gain while grouping.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>currently<EM> every</EM> crafter can produce <EM>every </EM>recipe for his class on his own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with this patch he no longer can - except for <EM>alchemists</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>these to sentences are the simply undeniable truth......now read them slowly...read them again...think about it....</DIV> <DIV>....and now tell me you honestly think its a change for the better for <EM>everyone</EM></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Would you PLEASE stop whining Tradeskill Addict? Yes - the change IS better for everyone. Every tradeskill class will benefit from this change. Just because Alchemists will be able to actually sell something again shouldn't get your feathers ruffled.<BR>

Ricassari

03-18-2005, 08:28 PM

<div></div><span>Nice words, but should I believe? My view of the situation based on experience rather than nice words and promises: <blockquote><hr>Baelzharon wrote:You guys are completely missing my point, so I will spell it out for you hopefully in a way you can finally comprehend. <font color="#cc6600">And I dare to spell it out in a REALISTIC way so YOU can finally comprehend.</font> Scenerio 1. Adventurer A, goes out harvesting and gets lucky and finds a few enchantments raws. Adventurer A decides he'd like some enchanted armor made and hires Mr. Alchemist to make the exact enchantments he/she wants. <font color="#cc9900">There is not much of a decision involved. As soon as A decides not to sell the rare, he MUST find an alchi before he can do anything else. And we all know what has happend in these situations of dependancy: Alchis charge an arm and a leg for a simple combine. After that, A has plenty of choices - go to an armorer for some nice armor, maybe to a tailor for some armor for his alt, to a weaponsmith for a nice weapon - plenty of options. As soon as one of these crafters reacts so high-and-mighty as the alchis, whose attitude A is probably already sick and tired of at this point, he will surely find someone else as he has plenty of choices now. </font> Adventurer A with his enchantment now hires our famous Bob the Armorer to make some Pristine Armor which includes the Enchantments. Bob is happy <font color="#cc9900">Bob surely is not very happy only able to make a few silver while Mr. alchi again made a few plat</font> Adventurer A is happy <span><font color="#cc9900">A is partially happy - the part with the greedy alchi has ticked him off despite his shiny new item.</font></span> Mr. Alchemist is happy <font color="#cc9900">You bet !</font> Scenerio 2. Bob the Armorer who's noticed an influx if requests to make Pristine Armor with Enchantment A decides to pre-order a batch of Enchantment A in hopes to get lucky in the market. Bob the Armorer types /who all LFW alchemist and lo and behold finds a few he strikes a deal with. <font color="#cc9900">Yes, we all have seen how nicely that worked when we needed a few washs. Alchis whining and bickering with prices about ten to twenty times the current, fair market prices - if we were able to get them at all for such a "cheap" price. Bob will be charged an arm and a leg, no way out of it.</font> Bob the Armorer pre-makes a bunch of enchanted armor and puts it on the broker and sells a few. Bob is happy <font color="#cc9900">Surely not, he has gained a few silvers while Mr. alchi again made phat plat. But the alternative would have been not even silver, the world is so unfair again</font> A lot of adventurers are happy Mr. Alchemist is happy <span><font color="#cc9900">You bet !</font></span> Scenerio 3. Bill the fledgling Armorer is leveling up and decides to crank out a load of armor in an XP spurt to hit the next Tier. At the end of his work he just places all the pristine up on the Broker to clear out the bank space. Mr. Alchemist has a surpluss of enchantments and decides to throw some up on the broker. <font color="#cc9900">Which world are you living in? Ever seen any alchi throwing up some surplus WORTs on the broker for reasonable prices at the times when they held all crafters hostage of their profession? This will <b>NEVER</b> happen. So following scenario is a pure fantasy dream.</font> Adventurer A see's a bargain and buys a set of armor, and some enchantments and then types: /who all LFW armorer and lo and behold finds Bob the Armorer is LFW, and Adventurer A hires Bob to enchant the armor. Bob is happy <font color="#cc9900">Again, just not possible.</font> Adventurer A is happy Mr. Alchemist is happy And Bill the fledgling Armorer is happy. I hope this helps remove some confusion and bigotry being thrown around in this thread toward Alchemists. <font color="#cc9900">No, unfortunately not. The bigotry might be on the side of the alchis currently all pretending to be nice and friendly. But we know better, we all have seen the wolves' teeth. There is NO reason to assume this will suddenly change when they are given the power to extort their fellow crafters again. NO REASON. Tell what you like, we know the truth as it has been. Maybe there are some inexperienced crafters believing your nice words. But most of us know the reality that has been. <b>No one wants these times back</b>. Why should the wolf have mutated into a sheep suddenly? SOE needs to make adjustments to this, allowing all crafters to make their own extracts as with WORTs.</font> <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

03-18-2005, 09:14 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote: <DIV> <DIV>these to sentences are the simply undeniable truth......now read them slowly...read them again...think about it....</DIV> <DIV>....and now tell me you honestly think its a change for the better for <EM>everyone</EM></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I do<BR>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 09:30 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nuvian wrote:<BR> <DIV>your talking like its a must for all classes to focus on iteme enchantment,the truth it that its not,i dont have an alch so this doesnt effect me at all,but why should you be able to do everything in the game crafting wise without having to "depend" on other classes for some recipes?as an adventurer i cant do everything my class was designed to do without help some times,and same should go for crafters,i was sure weaponsmiths,tailors,armor smiths would be happy with these new changes that would make crafted items more popular again,but it seems that insted of being happy about the change and the fact that you can create new cool stuff only gives some ppl a reason to whine about other things,if u wanted a totaly solo game you picked the wrong game,everquest 2 is a team game in its core,and that shouldnt only apply to adventurers.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>the funny thing is tat i DO buy interims. I think I bought at least 100 belt buckles so far for backpacks.</P> <P>but i COULD make them myself if no *specialist* would offer them (for a reasonable price)</P> <P>if I understand your post right then in your opinion the dependency (again) on alchemists is the small price I have to pay for crafting cool stuff. Why shouldnt it be possible without that small price?<BR></P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 09:38 PM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR>I hope this helps remove some confusion and <FONT color=#99cc00>bigotry </FONT>being thrown around in this thread toward Alchemists. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>great *applauds* - and what about your post on the alchemists forum???</FONT></P> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR><BR><FONT color=#99cc00>One of the biggest source of income pre-nerf for me was selling Inks and WROTs to other crafters, and now it looks like some of that action is coming back.</FONT> The demand for these enchantments is going to be through the roof, and <FONT color=#99cc00>everyone is going to be looking at us to provide them</FONT>. We'll have more opportunities to move products then most other crafters again because<FONT color=#99ff00> where as Bob the Armorer has only the time/customers to make 10 breastplates I'll have 10 Bobs buying 10 enchantments from me (100 total).</FONT> Any alchemist who doesn't see this as a boon to our business isn't looking too far past their own nose. <P></P> <P></P> <HR> <P><FONT color=#ff9900> that YOU are using the word</FONT> <FONT color=#99cc00>bigotry</FONT><FONT color=#ff9900> is the sick-joke-of-the-week</FONT> :smileythrowingup:</P></DIV>

Baelzharon

03-18-2005, 09:43 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Ricassari wrote:<div></div><span>Nice words, but should I believe? My view of the situation based on experience rather than nice words and promises: <blockquote><hr>Baelzharon wrote:You guys are completely missing my point, so I will spell it out for you hopefully in a way you can finally comprehend. <font color="#cc6600">And I dare to spell it out in a REALISTIC way so YOU can finally comprehend.</font> Scenerio 1. Adventurer A, goes out harvesting and gets lucky and finds a few enchantments raws. Adventurer A decides he'd like some enchanted armor made and hires Mr. Alchemist to make the exact enchantments he/she wants. <font color="#cc9900">There is not much of a decision involved. As soon as A decides not to sell the rare, he MUST find an alchi before he can do anything else. And we all know what has happend in these situations of dependancy: Alchis charge an arm and a leg for a simple combine. After that, A has plenty of choices - go to an armorer for some nice armor, maybe to a tailor for some armor for his alt, to a weaponsmith for a nice weapon - plenty of options. As soon as one of these crafters reacts so high-and-mighty as the alchis, whose attitude A is probably already sick and tired of at this point, he will surely find someone else as he has plenty of choices now. <font color="#ff0000">LOL, ok surely you are joking about his. Why would someone play out the nose for a basic combine service, and at the same time get abused? You must have a surplus of jerks on your server if that is normal.</font> </font>Adventurer A with his enchantment now hires our famous Bob the Armorer to make some Pristine Armor which includes the Enchantments. Bob is happy <font color="#cc9900">Bob surely is not very happy only able to make a few silver while Mr. alchi again made a few plat </font><span><span><font color="#cc9900"><font color="#ff0000">What World are you living in that Armorers only make a few silver per piece of armor they make? </font></font></span></span> <font color="#cc9900"> </font> Adventurer A is happy <span><font color="#cc9900">A is partially happy - the part with the greedy alchi has ticked him off despite his shiny new item. <font color="#ff0000">Stop being a bigot and assuming every alchemist is greedy and out to ruin your day.</font> </font></span> Mr. Alchemist is happy <font color="#cc9900">You bet !</font> Scenerio 2. Bob the Armorer who's noticed an influx if requests to make Pristine Armor with Enchantment A decides to pre-order a batch of Enchantment A in hopes to get lucky in the market. Bob the Armorer types /who all LFW alchemist and lo and behold finds a few he strikes a deal with. <font color="#cc9900">Yes, we all have seen how nicely that worked when we needed a few washs. Alchis whining and bickering with prices about ten to twenty times the current, fair market prices - if we were able to get them at all for such a "cheap" price. Bob will be charged an arm and a leg, no way out of it. <font color="#ff0000">It's called Business 101. Make some contacts and get a good relationship going with an Alchemist. There is a huge difference between sending a random tell demanding someone make items for you, and actually starting up a partnership and working together. Have you actually tried to talk to an Alchemist, or are you so blind by jealousy that you're assuming once again that every Alchemist is going to be unfair?</font> </font> Bob the Armorer pre-makes a bunch of enchanted armor and puts it on the broker and sells a few. Bob is happy <font color="#cc9900">Surely not, he has gained a few silvers while Mr. alchi again made phat plat. But the alternative would have been not even silver, the world is so unfair again <font color="#ff0000">Once again I gotta ask what world are you living in if you think Armorers don't make any money off their final products.</font> </font> A lot of adventurers are happy Mr. Alchemist is happy <span><font color="#cc9900">You bet !</font></span> Scenerio 3. Bill the fledgling Armorer is leveling up and decides to crank out a load of armor in an XP spurt to hit the next Tier. At the end of his work he just places all the pristine up on the Broker to clear out the bank space. Mr. Alchemist has a surpluss of enchantments and decides to throw some up on the broker. <font color="#cc9900">Which world are you living in? Ever seen any alchi throwing up some surplus WORTs on the broker for reasonable prices at the times when they held all crafters hostage of their profession? This will <b>NEVER</b> happen. So following scenario is a pure fantasy dream. <font color="#ff0000">For pure leveling purposes and grinding out products you bet I see this every day. I see on my server lots of chems and interims being dumped on the market.</font> </font> Adventurer A see's a bargain and buys a set of armor, and some enchantments and then types: /who all LFW armorer and lo and behold finds Bob the Armorer is LFW, and Adventurer A hires Bob to enchant the armor. Bob is happy <font color="#cc9900">Again, just not possible.</font> Adventurer A is happy Mr. Alchemist is happy And Bill the fledgling Armorer is happy. I hope this helps remove some confusion and bigotry being thrown around in this thread toward Alchemists. <font color="#cc9900">No, unfortunately not. The bigotry might be on the side of the alchis currently all pretending to be nice and friendly. But we know better, we all have seen the wolves' teeth. There is NO reason to assume this will suddenly change when they are given the power to extort their fellow crafters again. NO REASON. Tell what you like, we know the truth as it has been. Maybe there are some inexperienced crafters believing your nice words. But most of us know the reality that has been. <b>No one wants these times back</b>. Why should the wolf have mutated into a sheep suddenly? SOE needs to make adjustments to this, allowing all crafters to make their own extracts as with WORTs.</font> <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><hr></blockquote> <font color="#ff0000">And lets be clear, if you approach other players with a chip on your shoulder and all ready to scream bloody murder you will get treated like the whiney liitle [Removed for Content] you are. Don't expect anyone to bend over and accept you demands just because you're [Removed for Content] about it. Try making some friends and creating your own coalition of traders and you'll be surprised at how well things will work out. If you just go to the broker and vent off and whine about the prices all you'll do is earn our indignition and probably a spot on ignore lists. </font></span><div></div>

Baelzharon

03-18-2005, 09:45 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div> <blockquote> <hr> Baelzharon wrote:I hope this helps remove some confusion and <font color="#99cc00">bigotry </font>being thrown around in this thread toward Alchemists. <hr> </blockquote> <p><font color="#ff9900">great *applauds* - and what about your post on the alchemists forum???</font></p> <hr> Baelzharon wrote:<font color="#99cc00">One of the biggest source of income pre-nerf for me was selling Inks and WROTs to other crafters, and now it looks like some of that action is coming back.</font> The demand for these enchantments is going to be through the roof, and <font color="#99cc00">everyone is going to be looking at us to provide them</font>. We'll have more opportunities to move products then most other crafters again because<font color="#99ff00"> where as Bob the Armorer has only the time/customers to make 10 breastplates I'll have 10 Bobs buying 10 enchantments from me (100 total).</font> Any alchemist who doesn't see this as a boon to our business isn't looking too far past their own nose. <p></p> <p></p> <hr> <p><font color="#ff9900"> that YOU are using the word</font> <font color="#99cc00">bigotry</font><font color="#ff9900"> is the sick-joke-of-the-week</font> :smileythrowingup:</p></div><hr></blockquote> FFS shut up. </span><div></div>

Ricassari

03-18-2005, 09:55 PM

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Baelzharon wrote: <font color="#ff0000">LOL, ok surely you are joking about his. Why would someone play out the nose for a basic combine service, and at the same time get abused? You must have a surplus of jerks on your server if that is normal. <font color="#cc9900">We all know it has been this way. Alchis in the arrogance of their might and power have acted as jerks in the past, and chances are high that this will happen again. Don't deny the simple facts. We have not forgotten them. </font></font><font color="#ff0000">Stop being a bigot and assuming every alchemist is greedy and out to ruin your day. <font color="#cc9900">I think it is rather bigot to pretend all alchis are nice and easy-going. We all know the truth. We know how it has been. You have shown your true face once, you cannot think we are foolish enough to believe you when you are putting up a mask now and acting meek - now, before having the power to abuse all crafters again</font></font><span></span><font color="#ff0000"> It's called Business 101. Make some contacts and get a good relationship going with an Alchemist. There is a huge difference between sending a random tell demanding someone make items for you, and actually starting up a partnership and working together. <font color="#cc9900">Yes, brownnosing your personal alchi and giving him half of your income for about a tenth of the combines might actually work. Still, this is not Business 101 it is blatant abuse from alchis. You might have a different perception never being on the receiving end, but the facts are clear and we all still remember.</font> </font><span><font color="#ff0000"> </font></span><div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

Ricassari

03-18-2005, 09:58 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Baelzharon wrote:<span> FFS shut up. </span><hr></blockquote> Elaborate, well-thought out and brilliant message to make exactly the point. A typical post from a non-arrogant, nice alchi who never would think about abusing and price-gauging as soon as he is given the opportunity again (of course he would </span><span>nonchalantly call it </span><span>"Buisiness 101"). Thank you for having a discussion with you.</span><div></div>

Shandael

03-18-2005, 10:36 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> z3oslo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Not every fighter spell will sell, you will be required to so some research.</DIV> <DIV>As a sage i know that i have to avoid those spells with common adept drop, i know i have to avoid the spells for the opposite city and i have to avoid budd/debuff spells as they dont do much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I make the rest, and make 2-3 of the best selling ones.</DIV> <DIV>I sell anywhere between 5-20 spells per night, with the average around 10.</DIV> <DIV>T5 spells sell for 7 gold, so that would leave me with a healthy profit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should be able to sell as much as i do with some research. In addition you have poisons and potions.</DIV> <DIV>Take notes of what you sell, make some extra copies of them. consider making adept III of the best selling ones.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I have to agree with this. I have a Sage too, and she makes me the best money of all my crafters....and all Sages have are spells.</P> <P>Yet you never can get an Alchemist to remember that they also make upgrades. Read the Alchy boards or hear all the complaints. Never do they mention Fighter Essences...unless someone else reminds them of them, then it's "Oh they don't sell". Bull puckey.</P> <P>I can't keep stocked to meet demand. It takes me two days to restock what I sell in one.</P> <P>So excuse me if all the alchy complaints seem fishy to me after they were dethroned from controlling every aspect of every other crafting profession. It just seems to me that they've been on the gravy train for so long and enjoyed absolute power that anything else is totally beneath them...</P> <P> </P>

Blackdog183

03-18-2005, 11:00 PM

<DIV>Okay, just to clarify a few points here</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Some people are saying that alchemist are all overcharging terrorists, to this I say, yes some alchemist have in the past charged insane prices. Not all did, I never ever did, I sell them for the same low price after the patch that I did before, and I sell at least 50 stacks a week....so apparantly no one on my server had a problem. If you were getting [Removed for Content] on chems, do yourself a favor...stand up, walk to the bathroom, turn on the light, blame the person in the mirror. It is your own [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] fault.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Some people say this is a return to dependancy. The entire reason that dependancy was done away with is because it was preventing people from levelling, and to that point I agree 110% with it being removed. This however is not a return to dependancy, this change will in no way shape or form prevent anyone from <U>levelling.</U></DIV> <DIV><U></U> </DIV> <DIV>3. Just so that everyone understands exactly where Im coming from in my point of view....This feeble and weak @$$ attempt to make it so that you can craft your own enhancemnts is nothing more than most of you trying to make the item youself and keep all the profit. You can say its not until you turn 3 shades of purple, but the fact is, its true. Look at what happened with the removal of dependancy, alot of people complained that it was driving their prices up. They removed it, and low and behold, the in-demand items havent dropped not a single silver. Stop trying to keep everything for yourself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once again I will say my idea on how it should work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The items should be crafted only by an alchemist, and can be purchased by anyone and added to an item as a permanent enhancemnt. This eliminates any complaint you could possibly come up with, other than a veiled attempt to charge 10x more for your wares.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to the people that say "you have essense poisen and potion"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Potion: arent worth wasting time on...point blank, the reason you dont find them on the broker, is because they suck @$$. They wont sell for anywhere near what it costs to make them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Poisen: See potion. It costs us alot more to make the poisen than it costs jim bob the scout to goto east freeport(or wherever in queynos) and buy an equivealent(or better) poisen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Essense: DO NOT SELL. This is how I make my levels, so after 35 levels of making and attempting to sell them, I think I have a pretty good idea that they wont sell.</DIV> <DIV>I have literally put up 600+ essense for sale(it takes about 300 to gain 10 levels with vitality) and the number I ended up selling to a merchant just to make room to level was in the 575+ range. So not just no, but HELL NO they dont sell. Anyone that comes here and says they do, I will call you a flat @$$ liar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change is being added to beinifit everyone, its something that the crafting community has begged for since beta, and now they give it to you, and you all come here and spew forth your vomit. Stop with the veiled greed, I hope to Innoruk that they take you completly out of the process of these enchancemnts and make it a point of sale to adventurers. That is about the only system that would A. remove the argument and B. keep you greedy little kids from marking up enchancent armor 20x what it costs you make.</DIV>

Platfing

03-18-2005, 11:13 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shandael wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> z3oslo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Not every fighter spell will sell, you will be required to so some research.</DIV> <DIV>As a sage i know that i have to avoid those spells with common adept drop, i know i have to avoid the spells for the opposite city and i have to avoid budd/debuff spells as they dont do much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I make the rest, and make 2-3 of the best selling ones.</DIV> <DIV>I sell anywhere between 5-20 spells per night, with the average around 10.</DIV> <DIV>T5 spells sell for 7 gold, so that would leave me with a healthy profit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should be able to sell as much as i do with some research. In addition you have poisons and potions.</DIV> <DIV>Take notes of what you sell, make some extra copies of them. consider making adept III of the best selling ones.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I have to agree with this. I have a Sage too, and she makes me the best money of all my crafters....and all Sages have are spells.</P> <P>Yet you never can get an Alchemist to remember that they also make upgrades. Read the Alchy boards or hear all the complaints. Never do they mention Fighter Essences...unless someone else reminds them of them, then it's "Oh they don't sell". Bull puckey.</P> <P>I can't keep stocked to meet demand. It takes me two days to restock what I sell in one.</P> <P>So excuse me if all the alchy complaints seem fishy to me after they were dethroned from controlling every aspect of every other crafting profession. It just seems to me that they've been on the gravy train for so long and enjoyed absolute power that anything else is totally beneath them...</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>What level is your Sage? It's a completely different game in T4 and T5 for essences. Heck, I would sell out all the time prior to level 30 alchemist. </DIV>

Ricassari

03-18-2005, 11:22 PM

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Blackdog183 wrote: <div>If you were getting [Removed for Content] on chems, do yourself a favor...stand up, walk to the bathroom, turn on the light, blame the person in the mirror. It is your own [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] fault. <font color="#cc9900">The typical, arrogant, high-and-mighty alchi. Blame the victim for being a victim. Not everyone had the time to raise a pocket alchi, and we could do NOTHING without the WORTs the alchis were abusing us all with. </font></div><div> </div> <div>Once again I will say my idea on how it should work.</div> <div> The items should be crafted only by an alchemist, and can be purchased by anyone and added to an item as a permanent enhancemnt. <font color="#cc9900">Of course this is YOUR idea of how it should work. You are an alchi, after all. As Shandael put it so brilliantly that it is worth to be printed out and framed to remind all honest crafters of what alchis used to be and will become if we ever let them take this position again: </font>"Alchis have been on the gravy train for so long and enjoyed absolute power that anything else is totally beneath them..."</div> <div> <font color="#cc9900">You complain that your items don't sell. Welcome to the world of SOEcraft. We all have the same problems in higher tiers. And this situation is GOLD compared to the previous situation where we had to spend lots of plat for alchis, just to be able to level on some items and sell them to the NPC afterwards. You are now in a situation every crafter calls paradise compared to the alchi terror that used to reign before, and now YOU complain? And LOUDEST of all? You never have been in our shoes before the interdependancy change, and if you EVER come into such a situation (I don't wish this to you), THEN you have reasons to complain.</font> </div><div>This change is being added to beinifit everyone, <font color="#cc9900">Alchis <> everyone. </font> </div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 11:50 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR>I hope this helps remove some confusion and <FONT color=#99cc00>bigotry </FONT>being thrown around in this thread toward Alchemists. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>great *applauds* - and what about your post on the alchemists forum???</FONT></P> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR><BR><FONT color=#99cc00>One of the biggest source of income pre-nerf for me was selling Inks and WROTs to other crafters, and now it looks like some of that action is coming back.</FONT> The demand for these enchantments is going to be through the roof, and <FONT color=#99cc00>everyone is going to be looking at us to provide them</FONT>. We'll have more opportunities to move products then most other crafters again because<FONT color=#99ff00> where as Bob the Armorer has only the time/customers to make 10 breastplates I'll have 10 Bobs buying 10 enchantments from me (100 total).</FONT> Any alchemist who doesn't see this as a boon to our business isn't looking too far past their own nose. <P></P> <P></P> <HR> <P><FONT color=#ff9900> that YOU are using the word</FONT> <FONT color=#99cc00>bigotry</FONT><FONT color=#ff9900> is the sick-joke-of-the-week</FONT> :smileythrowingup:</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>FFS shut up.<BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I thought rats had thicker skins</DIV>

Baelzharon

03-18-2005, 11:54 PM

When you keeping repeating yourself like a broken record it's not about skin and more about patience. I'm done trying to help you think differently about this upcoming change. You're assuming every alchemist is going to drive the price of these through the roof and chain the tradeskill world to our bank accounts, and nothing anyone says will change that for you. <div></div>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-18-2005, 11:57 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR>When you keeping repeating yourself like a broken record it's not about skin and more about patience. I'm done trying to help you think differently about this upcoming change. You're assuming every alchemist is going to drive the price of these through the roof and chain the tradeskill world to our bank accounts, and nothing anyone says will change that for you.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>youre right - nothing you say <FONT color=#00cc00>HERE</FONT> will change what you said in the <FONT color=#00cc00>ALCHEMY </FONT>forum :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Blackdog183

03-19-2005, 02:27 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ricassari wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>If you were getting [Removed for Content] on chems, do yourself a favor...stand up, walk to the bathroom, turn on the light, blame the person in the mirror. It is your own [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] fault.<BR><BR><FONT color=#cc9900>The typical, arrogant, high-and-mighty alchi. Blame the victim for being a victim. Not everyone had the time to raise a pocket alchi, and we could do NOTHING without the WORTs the alchis were abusing us all with. </FONT></DIV><FONT color=#cc9900><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#cc9900><FONT color=#cc0000>Actually what I meant is blame yourself for being too stupid and or lazy to seek out an alchey that wasnt charging an arm and a leg. But based upon statements like yours, you were obviously too busy sitting in the corner crying.</FONT> </FONT> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once again I will say my idea on how it should work.</DIV> <DIV> The items should be crafted only by an alchemist, and can be purchased by anyone and added to an item as a permanent enhancemnt.<BR><BR><FONT color=#cc9900>Of course this is YOUR idea of how it should work. You are an alchi, after all. As Shandael put it so brilliantly that it is worth to be printed out and framed to remind all honest crafters of what alchis used to be and will become if we ever let them take this position again: </FONT>"Alchis have been on the gravy train for so long and enjoyed absolute power that anything else is totally beneath them..."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Ummm, Okay [Removed for Content], think about it what you just said....Basically what your saying is that you want in on the new items and want to keep them out of the hands of alcheys so that you can make coin...that is Greed plain and simple.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#cc9900>You complain that your items don't sell. Welcome to the world of SOEcraft. We all have the same problems in higher tiers. And this situation is GOLD compared to the previous situation where we had to spend lots of plat for alchis, just to be able to level on some items and sell them to the NPC afterwards. You are now in a situation every crafter calls paradise compared to the alchi terror that used to reign before, and now YOU complain? And LOUDEST of all? You never have been in our shoes before the interdependancy change, and if you EVER come into such a situation (I don't wish this to you), THEN you have reasons to complain.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#cc9900></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Ummm yes we do complain, we were handed a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing pink slip, the only useful items we make were given to everyone, im pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] shure that if everyone could suddenly made armor(which is the useful item armorsmiths make) or bags*waves to the tailors* then those classes would be in an uproar. Simply put this change is being made to benifit adventurers, and crafters alike. You simply cant/wont accept the fact that it being given to alchemist is a penance for us being fired.</FONT><BR><BR></DIV> <DIV>This change is being added to beinifit everyone,<BR><FONT color=#cc9900>Alchis <> everyone. </FONT><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Basically you are complaining against alchemist finnaly receiveing something that will actually sell and is made only by us....thats what your doing. On that note, I dont think its fair that Tailors can make bags, armorsmiths can make armor....etc. Thats basically what your doing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Again I say this, come up with some reason OTHER THAN YOUR OWN GREED that alchemist shouldnt be the sole creators of these items and sell them to adventurers directly. All that garbage you just spit, was that attempted veil or greed I was talking about.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Guess what, if this item was made and end Item and solf directly to the adventurer, there is nothing, AND I MEAN NOTHING you can say that will not be out of your own greed at wanting to make coin off it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>And on additional note, DONT TRY TO CUT OUT THE THINGS IVE SAID ABOVE TO SUIT YOU NEEDS AND ATTEMPT TO SKEW MY ENTIRE POST IN YOUR DIRECTION, IF YOUR GOING TO QUOTE ME, QUOTE THE ENTIRE [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] THING, SO ITS SEEN IN CONTEXT.</FONT></DIV> <P>Heres what I actually wrote........ <DIV>Okay, just to clarify a few points here</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Some people are saying that alchemist are all overcharging terrorists, to this I say, yes some alchemist have in the past charged insane prices. Not all did, I never ever did, I sell them for the same low price after the patch that I did before, and I sell at least 50 stacks a week....so apparantly no one on my server had a problem. If you were getting [Removed for Content] on chems, do yourself a favor...stand up, walk to the bathroom, turn on the light, blame the person in the mirror. It is your own [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] fault.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Some people say this is a return to dependancy. The entire reason that dependancy was done away with is because it was preventing people from levelling, and to that point I agree 110% with it being removed. This however is not a return to dependancy, this change will in no way shape or form prevent anyone from <U>levelling.</U></DIV> <DIV><U></U> </DIV> <DIV>3. Just so that everyone understands exactly where Im coming from in my point of view....This feeble and weak @$$ attempt to make it so that you can craft your own enhancemnts is nothing more than most of you trying to make the item youself and keep all the profit. You can say its not until you turn 3 shades of purple, but the fact is, its true. Look at what happened with the removal of dependancy, alot of people complained that it was driving their prices up. They removed it, and low and behold, the in-demand items havent dropped not a single silver. Stop trying to keep everything for yourself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once again I will say my idea on how it should work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The items should be crafted only by an alchemist, and can be purchased by anyone and added to an item as a permanent enhancemnt. This eliminates any complaint you could possibly come up with, other than a veiled attempt to charge 10x more for your wares.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to the people that say "you have essense poisen and potion"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Potion: arent worth wasting time on...point blank, the reason you dont find them on the broker, is because they suck @$$. They wont sell for anywhere near what it costs to make them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Poisen: See potion. It costs us alot more to make the poisen than it costs jim bob the scout to goto east freeport(or wherever in queynos) and buy an equivealent(or better) poisen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Essense: DO NOT SELL. This is how I make my levels, so after 35 levels of making and attempting to sell them, I think I have a pretty good idea that they wont sell.</DIV> <DIV>I have literally put up 600+ essense for sale(it takes about 300 to gain 10 levels with vitality) and the number I ended up selling to a merchant just to make room to level was in the 575+ range. So not just no, but HELL NO they dont sell. Anyone that comes here and says they do, I will call you a flat @$$ liar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change is being added to beinifit everyone, its something that the crafting community has begged for since beta, and now they give it to you, and you all come here and spew forth your vomit. Stop with the veiled greed, I hope to Innoruk that they take you completly out of the process of these enchancemnts and make it a point of sale to adventurers. That is about the only system that would A. remove the argument and B. keep you greedy little kids from marking up enchancent armor 20x what it costs you make.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Blackdog183 on <span class=date_text>03-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:39 PM</span>

BloodSmo

03-19-2005, 02:52 AM

sounds like they are trying to fix alchs which are utterly useless as they stand right now.....

MaenaBowy

03-19-2005, 03:34 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Poisen: See potion. It costs us alot more to make the poisen than it costs jim bob the scout to goto east freeport(or wherever in queynos) and buy an equivealent(or better) poisen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Blackdog183 on <SPAN class=date_text>03-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:39 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There are no equivelent or better poisons for sale from NPC's. I *use* poisons. Alchemist ones own.</P> <P>And yeah, I'd imagine not many essences would sell on the broker, not because there isn't demand, but because there is too much supply. (quite possibly same with poisons. I get all mine from within my guild.)</P> <P>I'd expect just about every guild has at least 1, possible more, high level alchemist.<BR></P>

Blackdog183

03-19-2005, 03:48 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MaenaBowyer wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Poisen: See potion. It costs us alot more to make the poisen than it costs jim bob the scout to goto east freeport(or wherever in queynos) and buy an equivealent(or better) poisen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Blackdog183 on <SPAN class=date_text>03-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:39 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There are no equivelent or better poisons for sale from NPC's. I *use* poisons. Alchemist ones own.</P> <P>And yeah, I'd imagine not many essences would sell on the broker, not because there isn't demand, but because there is too much supply. (quite possibly same with poisons. I get all mine from within my guild.)</P> <P>I'd expect just about every guild has at least 1, possible more, high level alchemist.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In the case of high level poisens that maybe true, Im a 35 alchey, and have never ever ever had a scout come to me and ask for a poisen to be made....not one.</P> <P> </P>

Shandael

03-19-2005, 03:54 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Basically you are complaining against alchemist finnaly receiveing something that will actually sell and is made only by us....thats what your doing. On that note, I dont think its fair that Tailors can make bags, armorsmiths can make armor....etc. Thats basically what your doing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>My response:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Those are finished products, not interims. I know it's very, very hard for Alchemists to understand the difference between an interim and a finished product since all they know is absolute control over the market, and still to this day, believe their interims are the end-all of everything they have grown so power-hungry about.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Blackdog183 wrote:</DIV> <DIV>The items should be crafted only by an alchemist, and can be purchased by anyone and added to an item as a permanent enhancemnt. This eliminates any complaint you could possibly come up with, other than a veiled attempt to charge 10x more for your wares.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Essense: DO NOT SELL. This is how I make my levels, so after 35 levels of making and attempting to sell them, I think I have a pretty good idea that they wont sell.</DIV> <DIV>I have literally put up 600+ essense for sale(it takes about 300 to gain 10 levels with vitality) and the number I ended up selling to a merchant just to make room to level was in the 575+ range. So not just no, but HELL NO they dont sell. Anyone that comes here and says they do, I will call you a flat @$$ liar.</DIV> <DIV><BR>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So tell us, how much did you charge, honestly if at all possible, for those spells that never sold? Was it less than 10x the amount it took to make them?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's the honest truth as I've experienced. I've had to make ALL of my Guardian and Monks essenses, because none, absolutely none, were on the broker on Butcherblock, except for one single Adept 1 drop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Truth 2: I prefer being on my Sage making spells, but I had over 100 inks on my Alchy as well, since before the interdependency removal, she was the one making the inks for my Sage and Jeweler. I've gone through that entire supply simply by logging onto my Alchy in order to make an App IV for poor souls that are pleading over the Crafting and Trading channel for upgrades nearly every evening. There are simply none on the broker, day or night, or being charged so much it's absolutely insane. 1g for a T2, lvl 13 pally upgrade??? Excuse me??? I charge the same for fighter upgrades that I charge for caster upgrades on my Sage; 25s for any T2 spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would dearly hope that the devs are reading this, because I would dearly love them to take a challenge to see just how transparent and absolutely untrue this garbage is being spouted from my fellow Alchies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I charge 15s for T1 fighter essences, 25s for T2, 50s for T3. I'm just starting T4 but my pricing will be as follows; 75s for T4 and 1g for T5. I harvest my own resources, make my own ink, quills, paper, and spikes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I CHALLENGE any dev to make even just 40 fighter essences, and put them on the broker for a day, using my pricing scheme which is very reasonable to all parties involved. And see the results.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's it. Don't take my word for it, don't take the word of alchies who naysay that anyone buys fighter essences. See for yourselves, and then ask yourselves; Do you TRULY want Alchemists to be the sole determining factor in over half of the other tradeskill's ability to make a superior product?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I challenge you to see for yourselves the truth in the matter. Alchemists have 3 *finished* products to sell, Sages only have 1, but do you hear of the massive complains from Sages that their spells don't sell? But to a one, all of the Alchy complaints completely ignore their own finished products and are still totally fixated on interims....because that was when they were GODS!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <p>Message Edited by Shandael on <span class=date_text>03-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:02 PM</span>

Blackdog183

03-19-2005, 06:54 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shandael wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Basically you are complaining against alchemist finnaly receiveing something that will actually sell and is made only by us....thats what your doing. On that note, I dont think its fair that Tailors can make bags, armorsmiths can make armor....etc. Thats basically what your doing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>My response:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Those are finished products, not interims. I know it's very, very hard for Alchemists to understand the difference between an interim and a finished product since all they know is absolute control over the market, and still to this day, believe their interims are the end-all of everything they have grown so power-hungry about.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Blackdog183 wrote:</DIV> <DIV>The items should be crafted only by an alchemist, and can be purchased by anyone and added to an item as a permanent enhancemnt. This eliminates any complaint you could possibly come up with, other than a veiled attempt to charge 10x more for your wares.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Essense: DO NOT SELL. This is how I make my levels, so after 35 levels of making and attempting to sell them, I think I have a pretty good idea that they wont sell.</DIV> <DIV>I have literally put up 600+ essense for sale(it takes about 300 to gain 10 levels with vitality) and the number I ended up selling to a merchant just to make room to level was in the 575+ range. So not just no, but HELL NO they dont sell. Anyone that comes here and says they do, I will call you a flat @$$ liar.</DIV> <DIV><BR>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So tell us, how much did you charge, honestly if at all possible, for those spells that never sold? Was it less than 10x the amount it took to make them?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's the honest truth as I've experienced. I've had to make ALL of my Guardian and Monks essenses, because none, absolutely none, were on the broker on Butcherblock, except for one single Adept 1 drop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Truth 2: I prefer being on my Sage making spells, but I had over 100 inks on my Alchy as well, since before the interdependency removal, she was the one making the inks for my Sage and Jeweler. I've gone through that entire supply simply by logging onto my Alchy in order to make an App IV for poor souls that are pleading over the Crafting and Trading channel for upgrades nearly every evening. There are simply none on the broker, day or night, or being charged so much it's absolutely insane. 1g for a T2, lvl 13 pally upgrade??? Excuse me??? I charge the same for fighter upgrades that I charge for caster upgrades on my Sage; 25s for any T2 spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would dearly hope that the devs are reading this, because I would dearly love them to take a challenge to see just how transparent and absolutely untrue this garbage is being spouted from my fellow Alchies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I charge 15s for T1 fighter essences, 25s for T2, 50s for T3. I'm just starting T4 but my pricing will be as follows; 75s for T4 and 1g for T5. I harvest my own resources, make my own ink, quills, paper, and spikes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I CHALLENGE any dev to make even just 40 fighter essences, and put them on the broker for a day, using my pricing scheme which is very reasonable to all parties involved. And see the results.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's it. Don't take my word for it, don't take the word of alchies who naysay that anyone buys fighter essences. See for yourselves, and then ask yourselves; Do you TRULY want Alchemists to be the sole determining factor in over half of the other tradeskill's ability to make a superior product?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I challenge you to see for yourselves the truth in the matter. Alchemists have 3 *finished* products to sell, Sages only have 1, but do you hear of the massive complains from Sages that their spells don't sell? But to a one, all of the Alchy complaints completely ignore their own finished products and are still totally fixated on interims....because that was when they were GODS!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by Shandael on <SPAN class=date_text>03-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:02 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When i was grinding and trying to rid of my t3 essense, they were on the beoker at 20sp a pop for a week, I vendored 99% of them to make space</P> <P>When I saw grinding t4, 30sp a pop, vendored 99% of them, dont try to lie here. I told you I would call you a flat @$$ liar, and I am. I have a fighter, and I can go find every single spell I need in adept 1, and not pay more than 2gp for each. So do I think your lying, your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] right I do.</P> <P>If essense actually sold...then it wouldnt be as widely known that they dont...</P> <P>Sorry thats a proven fact, time and time again by hundreds of alcheys. So you coming here and saying they do....ya right.</P> <P> </P>

Troodon

03-19-2005, 08:04 AM

One way to allay the fears of non alchemists might be to seriously consider allowing these tinctures (or whatever they're going to be called) to be applied to existing and used equipment. Why? Well consider these two senarios: a) An adventurer wants a magical breastplate and thus goes to an armour and orders a new one. The armourer needs a tincture to combine with the breastplate in the final step. Thus he goes to an Alchemist to purchase such. The Alchemist is in a position of strength when it comes to the bargining for the price of the tincture, after all if this Armourer doesnt get the tincture he stands not only to loose this sale, but potentially a customer. b) An adventurer wants to enchant a breastplate. So he goes to an alchemist to purchase to tincture he desires and then he gives his tincture and breastplate to an armourer to enchant. Here everyone is equal, there is no urgency putting someone in a position where they feel they are at the mercy of the market: - The Adventuer can purchase and use his breastplate and get it enchanted when he wants. - The Armourer will sell more breastplates as they have the potential to be as desireable as drops and get work through enchanting them. - The Alchemist will finially get a desireable product to sell. There are only 2 cons I can see to the second senario: It'll probably require more development time to allow the updating of existing attuned equipment with enchantments, rather than just the addition of recipies; there wont be a rush to replace existing equipment with enchanted equipment (which I actually see as a pro). <div></div>

Blackdog183

03-19-2005, 09:23 AM

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=103" target=_blank><IMG alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/rank_icons/admin.gif" border=0><FONT color=#e3d034></FONT><SPAN>Moorgard</SPAN></A><BR><SPAN>Community Manager<BR>Posts: 468<BR>Registered: 11-07-2004 </SPAN><BR><IMG height=8 alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=150 border=0><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=103" target=_blank><IMG height=36 alt=Moorgard src="http://everquest2.station.sony.com/images/eq2_moorgard.jpg" width=36 border=2></A><BR> <P><SPAN>Reply <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=11089#M11089" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>30</FONT></A> of 57 </SPAN><BR><IMG height=6 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=1><BR><SPAN>Viewed 912 times<BR></SPAN></P><IMG height=1 alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=1 border=0><BR> <DIV>To be clear, these new recipes do not enchant every crafted weapon or piece of armor in the game; only certain ones. The pristine versions of certain weapons and armor can be combined with the magical extracts to make these new items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If an adventurer already owns the appropriate weapon or armor and hasn't attuned it, the items can be handed to the proper artisan to be used to make the new items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If an adventurer who owns one of the weapons or armor pieces that can be enchanted is of the appropriate artisan class, that person could use the magical extracts to create his or her own enchanted items whether the pieces are attuned or not. The recipe doesn't care whether the item is attuned, but if the item is attuned already it can't be traded to someone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't plan to introduce an unattune function. My point in the chat last night was that these new recipes aren't about giving every adventurer an easy upgrade to their gear. The recipes are being added to give artisans more cool stuff to make.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think of these items as new gear that is being added to the game. Just because a new item was added that has an advantage over something you worked hard to get doesn't mean that your existing item is worthless just because it isn't the best anymore. Standard pristine armor will still have the same value to the wearer and provide exactly the same protection; it just happens that something new has come along.</DIV> <P>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy</P></DIV> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Looks to me like these are an end item<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Result here is:</P> <P>Your items go up in demand vs. looted</P> <P>Your sales do go up(which is what you wanted)</P> <P>Alchemist get a worthwhile end item that will actually sell</P> <P>Adventurers get new/exciting items that they dont have to pay out the @$$ for because joe the armor guy decided to jack the price up on his armor to 20x+ what jim the alchey sold him the enchantment for.</P> <P> </P>

NinjaWi

03-19-2005, 02:18 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valhuru wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> z3oslo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Not every fighter spell will sell, you will be required to so some research.</DIV> <DIV>As a sage i know that i have to avoid those spells with common adept drop, i know i have to avoid the spells for the opposite city and i have to avoid budd/debuff spells as they dont do much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I make the rest, and make 2-3 of the best selling ones.</DIV> <DIV>I sell anywhere between 5-20 spells per night, with the average around 10.</DIV> <DIV>T5 spells sell for 7 gold, so that would leave me with a healthy profit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should be able to sell as much as i do with some research. In addition you have poisons and potions.</DIV> <DIV>Take notes of what you sell, make some extra copies of them. consider making adept III of the best selling ones.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I have an Alchy and a Sage... and from my experience it is much much easier to sell Priest and Mage scrolls than fighter essances.... for the same price, same quality, same level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fighters seem to spend much more time looking for gear than spells. This is only the way it looks on my server, but it is very cut and dry.... the sell rates are not even close.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/agree. I too have an Alchy and a Sage. Same conclusion. Also you have to remember that the Sage got 2 archetypes to sell to where the Alchy only have one. That means that the Sage got 2 times the amount of scrolls to sell.

Tradeskill_Addict

03-19-2005, 02:56 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR> <P>Your sales do go up(which is what you wanted)</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>My main char is a crafter but NO merchant - its NOT what I want although I symathize with your *end product* approach.</DIV>

Rijacki

03-20-2005, 05:43 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>NinjaWizz wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Valhuru wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> z3oslo wrote: <div>Not every fighter spell will sell, you will be required to so some research.</div> <div>As a sage i know that i have to avoid those spells with common adept drop, i know i have to avoid the spells for the opposite city and i have to avoid budd/debuff spells as they dont do much.</div> <div> </div> <div>I make the rest, and make 2-3 of the best selling ones.</div> <div>I sell anywhere between 5-20 spells per night, with the average around 10.</div> <div>T5 spells sell for 7 gold, so that would leave me with a healthy profit.</div> <div> </div> <div>You should be able to sell as much as i do with some research. In addition you have poisons and potions.</div> <div>Take notes of what you sell, make some extra copies of them. consider making adept III of the best selling ones.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>I have an Alchy and a Sage... and from my experience it is much much easier to sell Priest and Mage scrolls than fighter essances.... for the same price, same quality, same level.</div> <div> </div> <div>Fighters seem to spend much more time looking for gear than spells. This is only the way it looks on my server, but it is very cut and dry.... the sell rates are not even close.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote>/agree. I too have an Alchy and a Sage. Same conclusion. Also you have to remember that the Sage got 2 archetypes to sell to where the Alchy only have one. That means that the Sage got 2 times the amount of scrolls to sell. <div></div><hr></blockquote> I am a 49 alchemist and I make -and sell- Essences, potions, and poisons. I don't sell ink or WROTs because I it is in no way necessary for me to make them for someone else to be able to craft (this gives my wrists a HUGE break). When alchemists were the only ones who could make WROTS, I was making 40-100 stacks a day for orders which were 85% of the time 100% bartered for resources (1 stack raw and I returned 3 stacks WROTs). When I hit T4 (I was one of the first 10 to hit it), I [Removed for Content] off other alchemists because I didn't price at their over inflated rates but priced according to my costs with a much milder profit (3-4s for T4 WROTs when the raws were 5-7s on the broker). Currently I sell poisons and potions for 1g each and Essences for 4g (yes, I make more profit on Essences). I sell 10+ Essences a day, 20+ poisons a week, and 5-10 potions a week. It does take watching the market and knowing which essences have common easy drop adept1s (I even made a spreadsheet and then a webpage to track them) and NOT making or wasting inventory space those. Yes, some fighter lines have nearly every skill/spell as an adept 1 drop, but there are holes. I found the holes in T3, T4, and now T5. I only carry 1 tier in stock, because I don't have the space (or crafting time) to stock more. For poisons, I watch buying trends and listen to my customers. For poisons, I made 1 of each and then doubled up on the ones that sold until I stock 6 of the ones that sell quickly, 4 of the ones not so 1 quick and none of the ones that just sat there. For potions, I looked at the descriptions myself (even though their stats are skewed for me since I'm only 27) and determined the greater power regen is more likely to sell than the medium or lesser (and so don't make the later two), the state removers are unlikely to sell at all (having used potions myself and knowing the fumble with them), the buffs to AGI, STR and STA, WIS and INT were more likely to be occassional sales but not constant, etc. Then I stocked accordingly. I have ended up raising my stock on a few because they are faster sellers than the rest. Conclusion... if you are saavy, observant, and patient, alchemy end products do sell, albeit not at great rates (like the WROTs did). I will also freely admit that the irony is a lot of my business is reliant on most alchemists sticking their heads in the sand and claiming Essences, potions and poisons unequivically do not sell. I am looking forward to the enhancements as a way to increase business, though I still want them to address and -fix- potions and poisons (which -need- the same kind of lubbin' food and drink got... or a lot of redesign.. to make them more... useful to more players). Enhancements are NOT a dependancy required by ANY class as a means to level up. Enchancements are... extras, to be added to -some- items to give them a bit more. They'll be closer to the concept of rares, something highly desired but that not everyone will have or afford. As for my pricing on them... I will wait until I see A) how many combines are required to make them (i.e material costs such as fuel and liquids as well as the time required) and B) how expensive it is to obtain the harvests used to craft them. Until I know those 2 things, I won't speculate on prices.</span><div></div>

Meg

03-21-2005, 08:36 AM

<P>I know this much, I dont craft, never have, prolly never will.</P> <P>Give me a choice between regular crafts and special ones with procs/effects, I will choose special all day.</P> <P>I will not buy any normal stuff after this goes thru. It would be pointless to settle for second best.</P> <P>What does that mean ? Prolly that the people who can make the "special" (whatever it is) , will get all of my adventuring money</P>

Eleis

03-21-2005, 08:47 AM

<blockquote><hr>Meg wrote: <P>Give me a choice between regular crafts and special ones with procs/effects, I will choose special all day.</P> <P>I will not buy any normal stuff after this goes thru. It would be pointless to settle for second best.</P> <P>What does that mean ? Prolly that the people who can make the "special" (whatever it is) , will get all of my adventuring money</P> <hr></blockquote>Aye I agree to that and I think many players have the same judgement. I personally would get the best items possible (as long as the price is not to exorbitant of course). Yes I will even pay extra gold for a bit proc, heck, even if the new enchantments add only 1dps, I'm sure many people will still be more than willing to pay extra for it.

Rijacki

03-21-2005, 10:41 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Meg wrote:<p>I know this much, I dont craft, never have, prolly never will.</p> <p>Give me a choice between regular crafts and special ones with procs/effects, I will choose special all day.</p> <p>I will not buy any normal stuff after this goes thru. It would be pointless to settle for second best.</p> <p>What does that mean ? Prolly that the people who can make the "special" (whatever it is) , will get all of my adventuring money</p> <hr></blockquote></span><span>It's pointless for you to settle for second best, so you must have all your skills/spells at Adept III or Master and most definately not at Apprentice I or Apprentice II, right? All of the armor you wear came from master chests or was crafted from rare harvests, right? No point in anything less because everything else is only settling for second best. </span><span></span><div></div>

Trei

03-21-2005, 02:33 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div>Seems to me you are assuming that EVERYone will be able to afford such enhanced items, that it would be common enough that it becomes a norm instead of being reasonably rare, that EVERYone would actually have the luxury to turn down and reject clean pristine items, and ONLY go for ready-made enhanced ones. That's quite a tiny little circle of a world you are living in. Even then, I see the acquiring of the enhancements as the job of the end-product user, not you. You don't decide what proc I am getting on my item. +- Your job is to just make and sell the pristine armors and weapons to us. -+ The alchemists' job is similarly to just make the procs for us. WE will decide what proc WE want to imbue what item with, you just be there to do the combine for us when we finally find the the right one. A pristine item and an enhanced item are two different products altogether. Just because I bought a pristine sabre from you doesn't mean I have to look for you again to stick the proc on. It is actually up to me, the user, to find the best imbue rates in town or if I even WANT to spend money on any proc. New concept? Infact, I'm surprised its not the alchemists with the complaint that the crafters are getting a share of their proc pie. SOE didn't NEED to make it so that procs have to be imbued by crafters. It could just as easily been designed from the start to be imbueable by either only the alchemists themselves, or by the end-user. Instead they chose to allow crafters to benefit as well from this new feature in the game by involving you guys in the procedure, and you actually complain about it....? You are actually going to have the chance to make big bucks for the cost of basically nothing by simply charging people to imbue stuff for them, <i>yet you are complaining about it?</i> What's the matter with you? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Trei49 on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:41 AM</span>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-21-2005, 06:36 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trei49 wrote:<BR> Seems to me you are assuming that EVERYone will be able to afford such enhanced items, that it would be common enough that it becomes a norm instead of being reasonably rare, that EVERYone would actually have the luxury to turn down and reject clean pristine items, and ONLY go for ready-made enhanced ones.<BR><BR>That's quite a tiny little circle of a world you are living in.<BR><BR>Even then, I see the acquiring of the enhancements as the job of the end-product user, not you.<BR>You don't decide what proc I am getting on my item.<BR><BR>+- Your job is to just make and sell the pristine armors and weapons to us. -+<BR><BR>The alchemists' job is similarly to just make the procs for us.<BR>WE will decide what proc WE want to imbue what item with, you just be there to do the combine for us when we finally find the the right one.<BR><BR>A pristine item and an enhanced item are two different products altogether. Just because I bought a pristine sabre from you doesn't mean I have to look for you again to stick the proc on.<BR>It is actually up to me, the user, to find the best imbue rates in town or if I even WANT to spend money on any proc.<BR>New concept?<BR><BR>Infact, I'm surprised its not the alchemists with the complaint that the crafters are getting a share of their proc pie.<BR><BR>SOE didn't NEED to make it so that procs have to be imbued by crafters. It could just as easily been designed from the start to be imbueable by either only the alchemists themselves, or by the end-user.<BR>Instead they chose to allow crafters to benefit as well from this new feature in the game by involving you guys in the procedure, and you actually complain about it....?<BR><BR>You are actually going to have the chance to make big bucks for the cost of basically nothing by simply charging people to imbue stuff for them, <I>yet you are complaining about it?</I><BR>What's the matter with you? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <P>Message Edited by Trei49 on <SPAN class=date_text>03-21-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:41 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>this is the most stupid post I did read in this thread. some others where insulting but they included at least a nanogram of logic - which your posts completely lacks</P> <P>you say:</P> <HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>Trei49 wrote:<BR><BR>The <FONT color=#99ff00>alchemists</FONT>' job is similarly to just make the <FONT color=#99ff00>procs</FONT> for us.<BR>WE will decide what <FONT color=#99ff00>proc </FONT>WE want to <FONT color=#99ff00>imbue</FONT> what item with, you just be there to do the <FONT color=#99ff00>combine</FONT> for us when we finally find the <FONT color=#99ff00>right one</FONT>.</FONT><BR> <HR> <P><BR>you could also say then:</P> <HR> <FONT color=#ffcc00> <BR>The <FONT color=#99ff00>armorers'</FONT> job is similarly to just make the <FONT color=#99ff00>armor</FONT> for us.<BR>WE will decide what <FONT color=#99ff00>armor</FONT> WE want to <FONT color=#99ff00>wear</FONT>, you just be there to do the <FONT color=#99ff00>forging </FONT>for us when we finally find the <FONT color=#99ff00>rare steel cluster</FONT> </FONT> <HR> <P>but thats not how it happens. armorers make armor to their chosen field and skill: tier1 chain, tier4 leather, tier2 jewelery etc....90% of the time they just crafte stuff when you have time for the TS instance and put it on the broker when they got nothing bettter to do then going into vendor mode. they DONT sit around in non-existing shops and wait for customers :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>so WHY should it be different with enchantements? </P> <P>You really think some player has his toon sitting around at his societies stairs to wait for some jerk shouting: "Hey - you useless crafter over there! enchant my chestplate asap and i <EM>might</EM> give you a silver!</P> <P>Crafters will still try to produce the best piece of equipment they can - without having a customer ordering it in advance.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:50 AM</span>

Baelzharon

03-21-2005, 07:51 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr></blockquote><p>but thats not how it happens. armorers make armor to their chosen field and skill: tier1 chain, tier4 leather, tier2 jewelery etc....90% of the time they just crafte stuff when you have time for the TS instance and put it on the broker when they got nothing bettter to do then going into vendor mode. they DONT sit around in non-existing shops and wait for customers :smileyvery-happy:</p> <p>so WHY should it be different with enchantements? </p> <p>You really think some player has his toon sitting around at his societies stairs to wait for some jerk shouting: "Hey - you useless crafter over there! enchant my chestplate asap and i <em>might</em> give you a silver!</p> <p>Crafters will still try to produce the best piece of equipment they can - without having a customer ordering it in advance.</p> <p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class="date_text">03-21-2005</span> <span class="time_text">05:50 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote> Most of the successful amorers I know in game are so busy filling out orders that they often send work off to friends that might need more business. I don't know what kind of armorers are on your server but the good ones on my are booked. Most armorers and weaponsmiths I've worked with (both as customer and alchemist) don't pick up rares and make items with them because it's too expensive to do so. They just charge a commission rate to make it when someone gives them the rares, and contrary to what you're saying it's much more then just a few silver and more towards a few gold. As for these new enchantments, and enchanted equipment costs. It looks like they drop about 4x as more common as current rares, which is going to make them still a little pricey considering the demand will be very high from all the people wanting to replace armor with the new stuff. The harvesters are going to be the ones to who set the base price for these things, and the rest of us will be forced to adjust accordingly. </span><div></div>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-21-2005, 09:04 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Baelzharon wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>Most of the successful amorers I know in game are so busy filling out orders that they often send work off to friends that might need more business. I don't know what kind of armorers are on your server but the good ones on my are booked. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Most armorers and weaponsmiths I've worked with (both as customer and alchemist) don't pick up rares and make items with them because it's too expensive to do so. They just charge a commission rate to make it when someone gives them the rares, and contrary to what you're saying it's much more then just a few silver and more towards a few gold.<FONT color=#99ff00><BR></FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#99ff00><BR>Regarding my server (Lucan) I bought 4 pieces of steel on the broker and there are over a dozen feysteel available most of the time which means that armorers (on lucan) DO craft for the open market. And since the pieces are all the same I dont care if the name on my chestplate stands for a "good" armorer - could you explain what difference it makes to YOU who crafted your gear?</FONT><BR><BR>As these new enchantments, and enchanted equipment costs. It looks like they drop about 4x as more common as current rares, which is going to make them still a little pricey considering the demand will be very high from all the people wanting to replace armor with the new stuff. The harvesters are going to be the ones to who set the base price for these things, and the rest of us will be forced to adjust accordingly. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#99ff00>The harvesters are going to be the ones to who set the base price for these things?....let me think....<BR>...so your alchemists is your main but cannot harvest himself? unbelieveable....<BR>...oh he is NOT your main? your main cant harvest TOO? unbelievable....if your not a complete idiot as a player</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#99ff00>can you tell me please from which rats @ss you suddenly pulled that anonymous harvester who takes all the money from alchemists who obviously belong to players to dumb to have at least ONE character able to harvest?</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#99ff00>I would laugh but my smiley went on strike because of the <A href="mailto:cr@p" target=_blank><FONT color=#99ff00>cr@p</FONT></A> you wrote</FONT></SPAN></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:05 AM</span>

Baelzharon

03-21-2005, 09:25 PM

Ok you silly twit it is taking people 2-3 hours of harvesting to get 1 or 2 of these things. I harvest for myself, but 2-3 hours of harvesting yields me enough roots and metals to TS for days. Going by the current rate of return it would take about 20-30 hours of harvesting to get enough of these to R&D and Sell. Personally I would rather dig my eyes out with rusty spoons then harvest nodes for 20-30 hours because harvesting is the most boring aspect of this game. I'll be buying these things from the broker or off people who auction them because my playtime isn't going to be wasted on chasing down nodes all day in the hopes I get one. I'll harvest but no more or less then I do now, and will gladly pay for someone else to do it for me and just markup my products to absorb the costs. <div></div>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-21-2005, 10:33 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote: Going by the current rate of return it would take about <FONT color=#99ff00>20-30 hours of harvesting to get enough of these to R&D and Sell</FONT>. Personally I would rather dig my eyes out with rusty spoons then harvest nodes for 20-30 hours because <FONT color=#99ff00>harvesting is the most boring aspect of this game</FONT>. I'll be buying these things from the broker or off people who auction them because <FONT color=#99ff00>my playtime isn't going to be wasted on chasing down nodes all day</FONT> in the hopes I get one.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I alwyas suspected you of seeing yourself *above* the regular player....but doesnt that go a bit far even from you to expect others to waste their<FONT color=#99ff00> </FONT><FONT color=#99ff00>playtime on chasing down nodes all day or 20-30 hours although harvesting is the most boring aspect of this game</FONT> just so YOU can buy them?</P> <P>you think ALL other players have nothing usefull to do and waste all their time instead on grinding?<BR></P>

Baelzharon

03-21-2005, 11:08 PM

OMG you sir are a complete and utter [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. If I harvest for 2-3 hours a week, and 1000 other people on my server harvest for 2-3 hours a week then that would mean there would be roughly 1000-2000 of these enchantments floating around in the market. Some will be used directly by the harvestee, some will be directly sold via private transaction, some will be put up on the broker etc etc. I don't expect or even consider for moment ANYONE would spend 20-30 hours a week harvesting, and that's not because I think of myself "above" anyone or any of that idiocy you vomited up. There might be players who fulltime harvest and have fun, well kudos for them but that's not my idea of fun. And what kind of server are you playing on where the "regular" players harvest for 20-30 hours a week? You are taking my words and reusing them to make lies and false inuendoes. I don't care if english is your native language or not, but please understand me clearly when I tell you to stop being a liar and fool. <div></div>

Eris

03-21-2005, 11:13 PM

Tradeskill_Addict

03-22-2005, 03:18 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR>OMG you sir are a complete and utter [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. If I harvest for 2-3 hours a week, and 1000 other people on my server harvest for 2-3 hours a week then that would mean there would be roughly 1000-2000 of these enchantments floating around in the market. Some will be used directly by the harvestee, some will be directly sold via private transaction, some will be put up on the broker etc etc. I don't expect or even consider for moment ANYONE would spend 20-30 hours a week harvesting, and that's not because I think of myself "above" anyone or any of that idiocy you vomited up. There might be players who fulltime harvest and have fun, well kudos for them but that's not my idea of fun.<BR><BR>And what kind of server are you playing on where the "regular" players harvest for 20-30 hours a week? You are taking my words and reusing them to make lies and false inuendoes. I don't care if english is your native language or not, but please understand me clearly when I tell you to stop being a liar and fool.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>i start to feel like kind of a puppeter .....but lets get back to the facts....</P> <P>YOU said it would take 20-30 hours to harvest enough to refine and sell so it must take also 20-30 hours to harvest and sell too. since you claim no one does...where are those raws then coming from you claim to have to buy for big$ from the broker?</P> <P>I am indeed taking your words but I am not twisting them - I just USE them.</P> <P>like I would use a mirror on you :smileywink:<BR></P>

Faarwolf

03-22-2005, 03:33 AM

Keep this thread civil and end the name-calling.

Crotal

03-22-2005, 04:07 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>where are those raws then coming from you claim to have to buy for big$ from the broker?</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Drops. </P> <P>Lucky Players, it is obvously an average he is using as an example, while it may take 1 player 60 hours, it may take another one just 1 hour.</P> <P>Players who do an "abnormal" amount of harvesting.</P> <P>Any other questions you need answers for?<BR></P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-22-2005, 05:37 AM

<DIV>just one:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>everyone claims that it will be the harvester who lays the base for an expensive endproduct.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but everybody declares he is </DIV> <DIV>a) unable to harvest himself at all</DIV> <DIV>b) to busy to harvest for having enough uncommons to sell</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so since no one seems to harvest for sales (i wouldnt either) I would like to know why this invisible army of greedy 24h/7 days harvesters who will quench out every coin of the poor refining alchemists does NOT visit this board.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a mystery that comes close to an episode of X-files</DIV>

Crotal

03-22-2005, 06:19 AM

<P>Having only seen a fraction of the posting population weigh in on whether or not they harvest themeselves, it would be an exageration to claim everyone claims anything.</P> <P> </P> <P>Perhaps the harvesters are too busy....harvesting to post whether they harvest or not. Delimma resolved.</P>

Rijacki

03-22-2005, 06:39 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div>just one:</div> <div> </div> <div>everyone claims that it will be the harvester who lays the base for an expensive endproduct.</div> <div> </div> <div>but everybody declares he is </div> <div>a) unable to harvest himself at all</div> <div>b) to busy to harvest for having enough uncommons to sell</div> <div> </div> <div>so since no one seems to harvest for sales (i wouldnt either) I would like to know why this invisible army of greedy 24h/7 days harvesters who will quench out every coin of the poor refining alchemists does NOT visit this board.</div> <div> </div> <div>a mystery that comes close to an episode of X-files</div><hr></blockquote> I would guess it would be the same people selling T3 rares for 50g to 1p or more. I would guess it would be the same people selling feyberries for 10-25s each. I would guess it would be the same people selling honey for 50s+ each. I would guess it would be the same people selling ashen root (common root of T5) for 25+s each. I would guess it would be the same people selling any of the other non-drink harvests from T5 for 10s+. I have the skill to harvest anything in T5. I do not have the TIME to harvest all that I use in T5 and to attempt to gather rares or uncommons in T3 which is the level range my adventuring is in. I actually like to do other things in this game aside from harvesting and crafting. I know people who -like- harvesting (and I do like it, just not as a steady, only thing) but hate tradeskilling and so they harvest for tradeskillers. I know people who harvest during the downtimes adventuring or even while they are out adventuring (I still do this with my 26 level Paladin from time to time). There are fewer tradeskillers than harvesters there are probably also fewer tradeskillers + harvesters than there are those who -only- adventure. If you have 20 people out harvesting for an hour or two while they are adventuring, it roughly equates to one person spending 20-30 hours solo harvesting. That's pretty easy math. Those who harvest set their prices. The prices of crafted goods frequently reflect the prices of the harvested, even if the crafter is harvesting himself. If a jasper costs 40g on the broker, I sure as hell am not going to make you a rare ink, without you supplying the jasper, for anything less than 40g. To do so, I would be an idiot. Even if I harvested that jasper myself, I would be an idiot for selling the ink for less than the relative value of the raw harvest.</span><div></div>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-22-2005, 12:11 PM

<DIV>finally I understand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>everyone posting here is a poor crafter struggling in the grasp of greedy harvesters who dont come here to admit its them (of course because they are out harvesting) :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a perfect world of victims</DIV>

Baelzharon

03-22-2005, 07:00 PM

Well I went out harvesting last night for bout an hour and got 1 in like the first 10 minutes but nothing more afterwards. This morning when I checked the broker sure enough there they all were priced from 5g on up to 20g. Now later today when I sit down and start to R&D some enchantments what am I to do other then buy some off the broker and then sell the enchantments for whatever I can to cover my costs? I can either spend 20 hours of harvesting for 1 hour of R&D or I can hit the broker and spend more time R&D and making Enchantments, but the price of those enchatments will be dictated by the harvestors. You can spin your lies however you see fit but any bs you throw out doesn't cover up the fact that I'll have to shell out 50g to buy enough to figure out what they even do, and you can be certain I'll have that cost covered when I sell the enchantments to someone else. You can call me a greedy alchemist till you are blue in the face it won't change the broker now will it. <div></div>

Crotal

03-22-2005, 07:11 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV>finally I understand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>everyone posting here is a poor crafter struggling in the grasp of greedy harvesters who dont come here to admit its them (of course because they are out harvesting) :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a perfect world of victims</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Or, on the other hand, some people posting here whine excessivly, after taking others to task for whining in thier very own thread.</P> <P>Your Credibility=0</P> <P> </P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-23-2005, 06:13 AM

<DIV>On Lucan there are the new *uncommons* on the broker but not the end product. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have even fished one myself (didnt realize fish nodes had them) but my characters cant refine it</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>did an ooc for an alchemist to refine it</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>no one answered </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but 5 tells came from people who wanted to buy it (for a price between 1 and 4 gold)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Looks like it works :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:15 PM</span>

Blackdog183

03-24-2005, 05:15 PM

<P>Well, these new items are pretty common, myself and a buddy for 7 in 8 hours(plus an opal and a feysteel). Went home, refined them to extracts and he made some pretty sweet weapons out of them. Set some aside for my armor etc...</P> <P>These were/are going for 25g-1p on the freeport side, 20-1p on the Q side(thats with the 40% fence fee btw). </P> <P>Ive refined probably 10-15 of these so far, all pristines. Now im just sittin around for a few days waiting for the price to drop on them down to a reasonable rate(around 2.5-5 gold) and I can start picking them up, refining them, and giving them to my WS to make proc weapons etc....</P> <P>So far however, as far as I can tell, the whole return to dependancy whining and complainging that went on, just didnt happen, or hasnt yet.</P>

Eris

03-24-2005, 05:54 PM

Though its been a really nice change. yesterday evening i made 85g net profit in 3h30 (about) doing alchemys orders. That was for sure a busy busy day.

Tradeskill_Addict

03-24-2005, 07:25 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote: <P>So far however, as far as I can tell, the whole return to dependancy whining and complainging that went on, just didnt happen, or hasnt yet.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I would agree if I could find an alchemist who would do a refine for some gold instead of offering me the same amount for buying the raws :smileywink:<BR>

Eris

03-24-2005, 07:54 PM

Hmmm one stared for just saying that i made money. Wonder why... <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But then i sure have a guess at who it was :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Eris on <span class=date_text>03-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:01 AM</span>

Crotal

03-24-2005, 08:39 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>I would agree if I could find an alchemist who would do a refine for some gold instead of offering me the same amount for buying the raws :smileywink:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The way you treat alchemists, is it suprising that none of them want to give you a hand?</P>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-25-2005, 02:14 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crotalus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>I would agree if I could find an alchemist who would do a refine for some gold instead of offering me the same amount for buying the raws :smileywink:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The way you treat alchemists, is it suprising that none of them want to give you a hand?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Don't you think yourself that the assumptions that</P> <P>a) ALL alchies on Lucan read this board</P> <P>and</P> <P>b) I actually run a character called Tradeskill_addict on an rpg-preferred server are <EM>a bit</EM> far-fetched? :smileywink:</P>

Crotal

03-25-2005, 02:19 AM

<P>What makes you think those were my assumptions?</P> <P>Perhaps my analasys was based on your general additude and tendancy to whine. My assumption would be that you act in game, like you do here. A safe bet most would likely agree.</P>

03-25-2005, 07:46 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crotalus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>I would agree if I could find an alchemist who would do a refine for some gold instead of offering me the same amount for buying the raws :smileywink:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The way you treat alchemists, is it suprising that none of them want to give you a hand?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Don't you think yourself that the assumptions that</P> <P>a) ALL alchies on Lucan read this board</P> <P>and</P> <P>b) I actually run a character called Tradeskill_addict on an rpg-preferred server are <EM>a bit</EM> far-fetched? :smileywink:</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Its probably the best for your gameplay experience if no one knows your ingame name.....<BR>

Tradeskill_Addict

03-25-2005, 03:24 PM

<DIV>If you have ever been grouped on Lucan with a templar who handed out t2 food/drink to his pick-up group you allready know my main :smileywink:</DIV>

Crotal

03-26-2005, 12:51 AM

Is that food and drink cheese and w(h)ine?

Tradeskill_Addict

03-26-2005, 05:56 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crotalus wrote:<BR> Is that food and drink cheese and w(h)ine?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>:smileyvery-happy: this one was to good not to admit it made me laugh :smileywink:<BR>

Ricassari

03-27-2005, 03:43 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Eris wrote:Though its been a really nice change. yesterday evening i made 85g net profit in 3h30 (about) doing alchemys orders. That was for sure a busy busy day. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Yes no dependency, Blackdog. Just alchis making phat plat again and no extracts for honest crafters unless you pay ridiculous prices to alchis. It is just as I fortold: these items are common, harvester prices are dropping to a minimum, crafted items don't sell unless they are imbued, and alchis want to eat about 90% of the profit. <font color="#ff6600">SOE, this dependency has to be fixed !!! </font></span><div></div>

Blackdog183

03-27-2005, 05:08 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ricassari wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eris wrote:<BR>Though its been a really nice change. yesterday evening i made 85g net profit in 3h30 (about) doing alchemys orders. That was for sure a busy busy day. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes no dependency, Blackdog. <BR><BR>Just alchis making phat plat again and no extracts for honest crafters unless you pay ridiculous prices to alchis.<BR><BR>It is just as I fortold: these items are common, harvester prices are dropping to a minimum, crafted items don't sell unless they are imbued, and alchis want to eat about 90% of the profit.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff6600>SOE, this dependency has to be fixed !!!<BR><BR><BR></FONT></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh really? Exactly how much are you paying for them to be refined? Cause I am charging exactly 1 gold piece to refine them. If you think I am making *phat plat* at 1gp per, then you obviously have no clue. I am however seeing these go for 60+ gold once applied to the end product....so whos making the phat plat? The alchemist who charges 1gp to refine it, so the crafter who marks it up 50x? So it is just as I foretold, you once again are too lazy and or stupid to seek out someone cheaper, and are sitting in the corner crying *yet again*

Tradeskill_Addict

03-27-2005, 05:27 PM

<DIV>Uncommented prices on Lucan last morning(1300+ items on broker which is about the max on this server):</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>60+ uncommons offered from 1gold-2plat with the average being about <FONT color=#00cc00>tier2 2 gold, tier3 4 gold, tier4 10 gold, tier5 24 gold.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#00cc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>2(!) imbuing extracts offered,<FONT color=#00cc00> tier2 25 gold, tier3 50 gold (2 different traders)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#00cc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>about 40 imbued items offered from 20 gold to 2 plat with the average being about<FONT color=#00cc00> tier2 25 gold and the rest quite mixed up.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#00cc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>since the recent patch this was the first time I've seen the extract on the broker at all so go figure yourself where the crafters got their extracts....</DIV>

Ricassari

03-27-2005, 05:40 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Blackdog183 wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Ricassari wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> Eris wrote:Though its been a really nice change. yesterday evening i made 85g net profit in 3h30 (about) doing alchemys orders. That was for sure a busy busy day. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Yes no dependency, Blackdog. Just alchis making phat plat again and no extracts for honest crafters unless you pay ridiculous prices to alchis.It is just as I fortold: these items are common, harvester prices are dropping to a minimum, crafted items don't sell unless they are imbued, and alchis want to eat about 90% of the profit.<font color="#ff6600">SOE, this dependency has to be fixed !!!</font></span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Oh really? Exactly how much are you paying for them to be refined? Cause I am charging exactly 1 gold piece to refine them. If you think I am making *phat plat* at 1gp per, then you obviously have no clue. I am however seeing these go for 60+ gold once applied to the end product....so whos making the phat plat? The alchemist who charges 1gp to refine it, so the crafter who marks it up 50x? So it is just as I foretold, you once again are too lazy and or stupid to seek out someone cheaper, and are sitting in the corner crying *yet again* <div></div><hr></blockquote>Reality check ?? 1g per combine is not equal 1g per hour. I know alchis want to tell us tales like these when they want to charge 10g to make an extract. YES, 10g !!! I would now gladly pay 1g - although I still think this is outrageous for a simple combine. Which honest crafter gets 1g per combine? From an item that is so in SOE-forced demand that it sells faster than anything else on the broker? Likewise, no one is even trying to sell the final product for 60g. No one. Just everyone check his local broker and he will see the truth (or the lack thereof, as usual) in blackdogs statements. Unless its a rare, and then the standard price is of course near 60g - for the rare harvest alone. Fact, standard pristine legs and plates have dropped to half of the pre-patch price, and don't sell at that. Imbued items sell for only a bit more than non-imbued pre-patch. Fact, alchis eat 90% of the profit while honest crafters have less than before. <font color="#ff6600">SOE needs to remove this new dependency soon or alchis will - AGAIN ! - nearly kill the crafting community.</font> </span><div></div>

Troodon

03-27-2005, 06:07 PM

My experience with enchantents is from the perspective of those anoying folks whom you have to put up with, your customers: After finding a couple of the new semi-rares I brushed off the dust from a couple of chipped feysteel goblets I purchased off a broker some time ago. After seeking advice from my guild I mailed one of the premier armourers on Splitpaw, Jarrodc, explaining what I wanted: imbued Feysteel Breastplate and Greaves. He dispatched me off with recommendations on whom to approach to retrieve a couple of subcomponents (harnesses) and to get the semi-rares extracted: First I approached a few tailors, someone leveling up in the appropriate level was happy to trade 40 hides for the 2 harness, I did offer some cash too, but he was happy with the hides. We both went away happy. Then I approached a few alchemists, took a little while and a trip to Freeport but in exchange for 10 gold I got my two Sparkling flowers extracted. We both went away happy. I returned to Jarrodc with the required bits a pieces and a donation that I hope was appropriate for his talents. He went to work with the forge to return with my new shiny armour. We both went away happy. 4 happy people in this transaction. 3 crafters and 1 adventurer. <div></div>

Ricassari

03-27-2005, 06:24 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>TroodonIE wrote:My experience with enchantents is from the perspective of those anoying folks whom you have to put up with, your customers: After finding a couple of the new semi-rares I brushed off the dust from a couple of chipped feysteel goblets I purchased off a broker some time ago. After seeking advice from my guild I mailed one of the premier armourers on Splitpaw, Jarrodc, explaining what I wanted: imbued Feysteel Breastplate and Greaves. He dispatched me off with recommendations on whom to approach to retrieve a couple of subcomponents (harnesses) and to get the semi-rares extracted: First I approached a few tailors, someone leveling up in the appropriate level was happy to trade 40 hides for the 2 harness, I did offer some cash too, but he was happy with the hides. We both went away happy. Then I approached a few alchemists, took a little while and a trip to Freeport but in exchange for 10 gold I got my two Sparkling flowers extracted. We both went away happy. I returned to Jarrodc with the required bits a pieces and a donation that I hope was appropriate for his talents. He went to work with the forge to return with my new shiny armour. We both went away happy. 4 happy people in this transaction. 3 crafters and 1 adventurer. <div></div><hr></blockquote>1 happy adventurer. 1 tailor who had to be contempt with 2 stacks of hides minus what he used, roughly half a gold in total, for 2 combines plus his costs for fuel plus WORTs. Contempt because tailors just can't make good money. 1 "premier armorer" who was friendly enough to do a combine for a donation. 1 surely happy alcho who got 10g for 2 simple combines. And it took you a while to find him and a trip to freeport because the other alchis obviously were even more greedy. Exactly what I said. 90% profit for the alchi, the honest crafters get the shaft but are still friendly enough to work for near nothing. Still. If this goes on, crafting will be dead soon, like it nearly was before in the days of WORT dependency.</span><div></div>

Troodon

03-27-2005, 06:40 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><span>Ricassari wrote: "<font color="#ccffff">1 happy adventurer. </font><font color="#ccffff"> </font> <font color="#ccffff"> </font><font color="#ccffff"> 1 tailor who had to be contempt with 2 stacks of hides minus what he used, roughly half a gold in total, for 2 combines plus his costs for fuel plus WORTs. Contempt because tailors just can't make good money.</font><font color="#ccffff"> </font> <font color="#ccffff"> </font><font color="#ccffff"> 1 "premier armorer" who was friendly enough to do a combine for a donation.</font><font color="#ccffff"> </font> <font color="#ccffff"> </font><font color="#ccffff"> 1 surely happy alcho who got 10g for 2 simple combines. And it took you a while to find him and a trip to freeport because the other alchis obviously were even more greedy. </font><font color="#ccffff"> </font> <font color="#ccffff"> </font> <font color="#ccffff"> </font><font color="#ccffff"> Exactly what I said. 90% profit for the alchi, the honest crafters get the shaft but are still friendly enough to work for near nothing. Still. If this goes on, crafting will be dead soon, like it nearly was before in the days of WORT dependency.</font>" 1 happy adventuer: whom might have paid a bit over the odds and had to do some of the running about, but it was a rush order. 1 Tailor whom turned down an offered donation but was happy with the 40 hides (I would have offered more if I had them on me) for 2 "any quality" subcomponents. 1 Alchemist whom delayed what she wanted to do to fill my rush order. 5 gold for a T4 extract wasnt cheap, but then I didnt have time to shop around and I dont have the oppotunity to build up ties with an Alchemist as you guys do as fellow crafters. <font color="#ffffff"> </font><font color="#ffffff">1 happy </font></span><span><font color="#ccffff"><font color="#ffffff">"premier armorer" whom I assure you got significantly more than 10 gold for his talents and time</font> </font></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by TroodonIE on <span class=date_text>03-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:08 PM</span>

Rijacki

03-28-2005, 12:16 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Ricassari wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Blackdog183 wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Ricassari wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> Eris wrote:Though its been a really nice change. yesterday evening i made 85g net profit in 3h30 (about) doing alchemys orders. That was for sure a busy busy day. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Yes no dependency, Blackdog. Just alchis making phat plat again and no extracts for honest crafters unless you pay ridiculous prices to alchis.It is just as I fortold: these items are common, harvester prices are dropping to a minimum, crafted items don't sell unless they are imbued, and alchis want to eat about 90% of the profit.<font color="#ff6600">SOE, this dependency has to be fixed !!!</font></span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Oh really? Exactly how much are you paying for them to be refined? Cause I am charging exactly 1 gold piece to refine them. If you think I am making *phat plat* at 1gp per, then you obviously have no clue. I am however seeing these go for 60+ gold once applied to the end product....so whos making the phat plat? The alchemist who charges 1gp to refine it, so the crafter who marks it up 50x? So it is just as I foretold, you once again are too lazy and or stupid to seek out someone cheaper, and are sitting in the corner crying *yet again* <div></div><hr></blockquote>Reality check ?? 1g per combine is not equal 1g per hour. I know alchis want to tell us tales like these when they want to charge 10g to make an extract. YES, 10g !!! I would now gladly pay 1g - although I still think this is outrageous for a simple combine. Which honest crafter gets 1g per combine? From an item that is so in SOE-forced demand that it sells faster than anything else on the broker? Likewise, no one is even trying to sell the final product for 60g. No one. Just everyone check his local broker and he will see the truth (or the lack thereof, as usual) in blackdogs statements. Unless its a rare, and then the standard price is of course near 60g - for the rare harvest alone. Fact, standard pristine legs and plates have dropped to half of the pre-patch price, and don't sell at that. Imbued items sell for only a bit more than non-imbued pre-patch. Fact, alchis eat 90% of the profit while honest crafters have less than before. <font color="#ff6600">SOE needs to remove this new dependency soon or alchis will - AGAIN ! - nearly kill the crafting community.</font> </span><div></div><hr></blockquote> First, Blackdog said "1g per" as in 1gold per ITEM. He made zero mention of per hour. You wrongly inferred that. Now.... as to your allegation that it is the alchemists making the quick buck.... On Antonia Bayle last night I was looking at T3 armor. Steel clusters run 10-20g Sparkling items run 2g-15g Sparkling Extract 5-8g Pristine imbued steel vanguard cuirass and pristine imbued steel vanguard greeves Last night each piece was priced at 75g!! Yes, 75g. This morning the chest is priced at less than that at 25g with 37g for the pants (don't pants and chest have vitually the same component cost? or is it slightly cheaper to make pants?). Oh yes, the alchemists are making out like bandits on this *rolls eyes*. Plus, I assure you, for each alchemist who does put the extract on the broker, there are at least 5 who are making them for less than that for their regular customers (or even for free for guildmates). Unless I harvest some on my own (I think the prices on the broker for any of the UNCOMMONs are ludicrously high), I have no intention of putting any on the broker. Those I have made so far: free or cost of 2 fuel and the other harvest to a guildmate, 50s for T5 (the price on lacquer has risen to be comonly 5-15s each). The extracts are NOT a manditory dependancy. Since the patch, I have been selling my boyfriend's character's T3 tailored armor. I sell out of it (all but boots, hmm) in about a day after they've been put up. 2 suits and a few extras in a day. Other items sold pre-imbued, as long as they're not at ludicrous prices, are also selling. The imbued are an EXTRA, not a requirement of anything. Heck, I've been looking for -shaped- feyiron for my paladin since I -hate- the look of the AQ armor but want better than the carbonite. My paladin is now 26 so she can wear shaped, but seemingly no one wants to sell shaped. I want to buy but no one is selling probably because they are obsessed with the idea that no one will buy anything but pristine and/or imbued and so they aren't even making anything else.</span><div></div>

Eris

03-28-2005, 12:16 AM

<DIV>Well for those saying that alchi must over price let me tell you how i made those 85g</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Customer1 tells you "How much do you charge per combine?"</DIV> <DIV>You tell customer1 " I charge cost+whatever bonus you wish to add"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So tell me how i overcharge. Please do im really curious. I must be gouging non alchy obviously if i make that much money no?</DIV> <DIV>Honest tradeskillers doing business with me are obviously idiots to pay that high a price no?</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So please all of you alchi-hater, why dont you go find another cause to fight against.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>Edit: Oh and before whiners Ric and TS_Addict come back to ask stupid questions, yes i do tell my customers exactly how much it costs me to make those combines. I tell them how mant fuels/raw/liquid i use, give them their prices. And guess what, most of my customers come back to me just because i gave them the choice at how much to pay me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Eris on <span class=date_text>03-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:33 AM</span>

Blackdog183

03-28-2005, 09:40 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rijacki wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ricassari wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ricassari wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eris wrote:<BR>Though its been a really nice change. yesterday evening i made 85g net profit in 3h30 (about) doing alchemys orders. That was for sure a busy busy day. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes no dependency, Blackdog. <BR><BR>Just alchis making phat plat again and no extracts for honest crafters unless you pay ridiculous prices to alchis.<BR><BR>It is just as I fortold: these items are common, harvester prices are dropping to a minimum, crafted items don't sell unless they are imbued, and alchis want to eat about 90% of the profit.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff6600>SOE, this dependency has to be fixed !!!<BR><BR><BR></FONT></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh really? Exactly how much are you paying for them to be refined? Cause I am charging exactly 1 gold piece to refine them. If you think I am making *phat plat* at 1gp per, then you obviously have no clue. I am however seeing these go for 60+ gold once applied to the end product....so whos making the phat plat? The alchemist who charges 1gp to refine it, so the crafter who marks it up 50x? So it is just as I foretold, you once again are too lazy and or stupid to seek out someone cheaper, and are sitting in the corner crying *yet again* <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Reality check ?? 1g per combine is not equal 1g per hour. <BR><BR>I know alchis want to tell us tales like these when they want to charge 10g to make an extract. YES, 10g !!! I would now gladly pay 1g - although I still think this is outrageous for a simple combine. Which honest crafter gets 1g per combine? From an item that is so in SOE-forced demand that it sells faster than anything else on the broker? <BR><BR>Likewise, no one is even trying to sell the final product for 60g. No one. Just everyone check his local broker and he will see the truth (or the lack thereof, as usual) in blackdogs statements. Unless its a rare, and then the standard price is of course near 60g - for the rare harvest alone. <BR><BR>Fact, standard pristine legs and plates have dropped to half of the pre-patch price, and don't sell at that. Imbued items sell for only a bit more than non-imbued pre-patch.<BR>Fact, alchis eat 90% of the profit while honest crafters have less than before.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff6600>SOE needs to remove this new dependency soon or alchis will - AGAIN ! - nearly kill the crafting community.</FONT><BR><BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>First, Blackdog said "1g per" as in 1gold per ITEM. He made zero mention of per hour. You wrongly inferred that.<BR><BR>Now.... as to your allegation that it is the alchemists making the quick buck....<BR>On Antonia Bayle last night I was looking at T3 armor. <BR><BR>Steel clusters run 10-20g<BR>Sparkling items run 2g-15g<BR>Sparkling Extract 5-8g<BR><BR>Pristine imbued steel vanguard cuirass and pristine imbued steel vanguard greeves<BR><BR>Last night each piece was priced at 75g!! Yes, 75g. This morning the chest is priced at less than that at 25g with 37g for the pants (don't pants and chest have vitually the same component cost? or is it slightly cheaper to make pants?).<BR><BR>Oh yes, the alchemists are making out like bandits on this *rolls eyes*. Plus, I assure you, for each alchemist who does put the extract on the broker, there are at least 5 who are making them for less than that for their regular customers (or even for free for guildmates).<BR><BR>Unless I harvest some on my own (I think the prices on the broker for any of the UNCOMMONs are ludicrously high), I have no intention of putting any on the broker. Those I have made so far: free or cost of 2 fuel and the other harvest to a guildmate, 50s for T5 (the price on lacquer has risen to be comonly 5-15s each).<BR><BR>The extracts are NOT a manditory dependancy.<BR><BR>Since the patch, I have been selling my boyfriend's character's T3 tailored armor. I sell out of it (all but boots, hmm) in about a day after they've been put up. 2 suits and a few extras in a day. Other items sold pre-imbued, as long as they're not at ludicrous prices, are also selling. The imbued are an EXTRA, not a requirement of anything.<BR><BR>Heck, I've been looking for -shaped- feyiron for my paladin since I -hate- the look of the AQ armor but want better than the carbonite. My paladin is now 26 so she can wear shaped, but seemingly no one wants to sell shaped. I want to buy but no one is selling probably because they are obsessed with the idea that no one will buy anything but pristine and/or imbued and so they aren't even making anything else.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Was just looking around the broker before the server went down..</P> <P>t4 imbued rings-60+ GP</P> <P>t4 imbued armor 50+gp</P> <P>t4 rare imbued armor 75gp+</P> <P>t3 imbued armor 20+gp</P> <P>t3 rare imbued armor 30+gp</P> <P>T4 imbued weapons 20+ gp</P> <P>t4 rare imbued weapons 60+gp</P> <P>t3 weapons 15+gp</P> <P>Now all of these were made by MY customers....so that would mean that I made about 95% of these extracts. You know what my end profit out of each of those items was, maybe 1 gold and a few silver(if I made them the chems also), so you tell me who the hell is gouging whom? Ric, Youve lied several times, and been caught, and you think you have the balls to call me a liar! You need to do a serious reality check, or just quit while your ahead. Seriously, the anti-alchemist crusade isnt getting you anywhere.</P> <DIV>Just as a side note, after seeing these prices, I have infact decided that I need to raise my price for refines a bit, being that Im making oh I dont know 1/60(being generous) of what these folks are selling for, so I revised my prices as 1gp(t2), 3gp(t3) and 5gp(t4) and will be 10gp(t5) when I ding 40. That should be little more *fair* to me for the time I spend in town, when I could be out and about making a ton more money adventuring.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Blackdog183 on <span class=date_text>03-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:43 PM</span>

Ricassari

03-28-2005, 11:32 AM

<div></div>Blackdog, the prices you list are utter nonsense. Everyone check for "imbued" on his server and he can easily see who is the big fat liar here. T4 armor for 50g ? LOL. Maybe some jerk <i>listed</i> it on the broker for that, but he will never get it. I sold 1 (one, yes) t4 legs for 15g after days of waiting. And there are others selling even cheaper. I'm still waiting for the other one to sell to get my other 10g that I had to pay to the alchi. I could start listing prices here too, or just make up some like Blackdog, but everyone just check on his own. Fact is, with this new dependency alchis are making phat plat, and honest crafters are selling for less profit than before. Either you have a pocket alchi, or your craft is dead. SOE has to fix this ! <div></div><p>Message Edited by Ricassari on <span class=date_text>03-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:36 PM</span>

Blackdog183

03-28-2005, 01:48 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ricassari wrote:<BR> Blackdog, the prices you list are utter nonsense.<BR><BR>Everyone check for "imbued" on his server and he can easily see who is the big fat liar here. T4 armor for 50g ? LOL. Maybe some jerk <I>listed</I> it on the broker for that, but he will never get it. I sold 1 (one, yes) t4 legs for 15g after days of waiting. And there are others selling even cheaper. I'm still waiting for the other one to sell to get my other 10g that I had to pay to the alchi.<BR><BR>I could start listing prices here too, or just make up some like Blackdog, but everyone just check on his own.<BR><BR>Fact is, with this new dependency alchis are making phat plat, and honest crafters are selling for less profit than before. Either you have a pocket alchi, or your craft is dead. SOE has to fix this !<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by Ricassari on <SPAN class=date_text>03-27-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:36 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><BR>First, Blackdog said "1g per" as in 1gold per ITEM. He made zero mention of per hour. You wrongly inferred that.<BR><BR>Now.... as to your allegation that it is the alchemists making the quick buck....<BR>On Antonia Bayle last night I was looking at T3 armor. <BR><BR>Steel clusters run 10-20g<BR>Sparkling items run 2g-15g<BR>Sparkling Extract 5-8g<BR><BR>Pristine imbued steel vanguard cuirass and pristine imbued steel vanguard greeves<BR><BR>Last night each piece was priced at 75g!! Yes, 75g. This morning the chest is priced at less than that at 25g with 37g for the pants (don't pants and chest have vitually the same component cost? or is it slightly cheaper to make pants?).<BR><BR>Oh yes, the alchemists are making out like bandits on this *rolls eyes*. Plus, I assure you, for each alchemist who does put the extract on the broker, there are at least 5 who are making them for less than that for their regular customers (or even for free for guildmates).<BR><BR>Unless I harvest some on my own (I think the prices on the broker for any of the UNCOMMONs are ludicrously high), I have no intention of putting any on the broker. Those I have made so far: free or cost of 2 fuel and the other harvest to a guildmate, 50s for T5 (the price on lacquer has risen to be comonly 5-15s each).<BR><BR>The extracts are NOT a manditory dependancy.<BR><BR>Since the patch, I have been selling my boyfriend's character's T3 tailored armor. I sell out of it (all but boots, hmm) in about a day after they've been put up. 2 suits and a few extras in a day. Other items sold pre-imbued, as long as they're not at ludicrous prices, are also selling. The imbued are an EXTRA, not a requirement of anything.<BR><BR>Heck, I've been looking for -shaped- feyiron for my paladin since I -hate- the look of the AQ armor but want better than the carbonite. My paladin is now 26 so she can wear shaped, but seemingly no one wants to sell shaped. I want to buy but no one is selling probably because they are obsessed with the idea that no one will buy anything but pristine and/or imbued and so they aren't even making anything else.<BR> <P></P> <DIV><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=109029104" target=_blank><IMG alt="Rijacki: Fire and Ice and Everything Nice, That's what Litle Wizards are made of" src="http://www.tshrew.net/rijacki/images/rijacki-emb-sig-sm.gif"></A></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Looks to me like someone did check....</DIV> <DIV>Your right, Soe should fix this, and remove your whiney [Removed for Content] from the process all together and let the adventurer add imbue the item on his/her own</DIV><p>Message Edited by Blackdog183 on <span class=date_text>03-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:49 AM</span>

Rijacki

03-28-2005, 10:55 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Ricassari wrote:Blackdog, the prices you list are utter nonsense. Everyone check for "imbued" on his server and he can easily see who is the big fat liar here. T4 armor for 50g ? LOL. Maybe some jerk <i>listed</i> it on the broker for that, but he will never get it. I sold 1 (one, yes) t4 legs for 15g after days of waiting. And there are others selling even cheaper. I'm still waiting for the other one to sell to get my other 10g that I had to pay to the alchi. I could start listing prices here too, or just make up some like Blackdog, but everyone just check on his own. Fact is, with this new dependency alchis are making phat plat, and honest crafters are selling for less profit than before. Either you have a pocket alchi, or your craft is dead. SOE has to fix this ! <p>Message Edited by Ricassari on <span class="date_text">03-27-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:36 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote> </span><span>Even though I am under the impression you think I do not exist since you have completely ignored any post of mine which refutes what you want to believe.... Antonia Bayle, 9am PST, Qeynos broker (actual prices minus the broker markup) -- comparison prices included as well T5Pristine imbued ebon vanguard greeves 5p Luminous items 30g to 70g </span><span>Pristine imbued fulginate short sword 40g Luminous extract 35g to 40g --- Ebon cluster (or refinable) 3p 25g to 4p 99g </span><span>Pristine fulginate short sword (same crafter) 10g </span><span> Fulginate cluster 49c to 15s No non-imbued crafted ebon items on the broker Pristine forged fulginate armor pieces 4g 50s to 10g </span><span> T4 Pristine imbued cloth blouse 1p Glimmering items 9g to 50g Pristine shadow imbued cloth hex doll 1p </span><span>Glimmering extract 40g (only one available)</span> <span>Pristine ruin imbued cloth hex doll 1p </span><span>Feysteel cluster (or refinable) 40g</span> <span>Pristine fright imbued cloth hex doll 1p </span><span>Oak roots (or refinable) 15g to 35g</span> <span>Pristine choas imbued cloth hex doll 1p Feyiron cluster 1c to 10s</span> <span>Pristine imbued feysteel vanguard greeves 90g Tussah roots 25c to 4s Pristine imbued feysteel vanguard cuirass 90g Pristine imbued feysteel long sword 80g Pristine imbued feysteel dagger 80g </span><span>Pristine imbued feysteel short sword 80g </span><span>Pristine imbued feysteel great spear 65g </span><span></span><span>Pristine imbued feyiron greatsword 40g ---- Pristine tailored cloth pantaloons 30g Cloth blouse (drop item) 10g crafted Feyiron vanguard armor pieces 1g to 5g crafted Broadcloth armor pieces 1g 20s Feysteel weapons (drop items) 45s to 7g </span><span> T3 </span><span>Pristine imbued carbonite vanguard cuirass 50g Sparkling items 1g to 30g </span><span></span><span>Pristine imbued steel vanguard greeves 37g Sparkling extract 4g to 7g </span><span>Pristine disease imbued ash wand 20g Steel cluster (or refinable) 12g to 35g</span> <span>Imbued carbonite chainmail coat 10g Carbonite cluster 10c to 1s --- Severed ash 2c to 2s crafted Carbonite armor pieces 40s to 90s </span><span>No non-imbued crafted steel items on the broker </span><span>No non-imbued crafted ash weapons on the broker</span> <span> </span><span>T2 </span><span></span><span>Pristine magic imbued bone wand 20g Glowing items 39s to 50g</span> <span>Imbued bone round shield 20g Glowing extract 5g to 6g</span> <span>Flame imbued bone wand 15g Severed bone (or refinable) 2g to 20g </span><span>Pristine imbued turquoise ring of intelligence 5g Rough turquoise 1c to 1s </span><span></span><span>Pristine imbued turquoise ring of wisdom 2g Severed maple 1c to 50c Imbued maple long bow 1g 75s --- Bone furniture 5g crafted Turquoise jewelry 15s to 75s Maple furniture 30s to 2g</span> <div></div>

Blackdog183

03-29-2005, 05:05 PM

Looks to be that the alchemist arent th eones making *phat plat* now does it? Thats prices across 2 servers now that show it isnt the alchey gouging the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] out of people......

Baelzharon

03-29-2005, 07:57 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Ricassari wrote:Blackdog, the prices you list are utter nonsense. Everyone check for "imbued" on his server and he can easily see who is the big fat liar here. T4 armor for 50g ? LOL. Maybe some jerk <i>listed</i> it on the broker for that, but he will never get it. I sold 1 (one, yes) t4 legs for 15g after days of waiting. And there are others selling even cheaper. I'm still waiting for the other one to sell to get my other 10g that I had to pay to the alchi. I could start listing prices here too, or just make up some like Blackdog, but everyone just check on his own. Fact is, with this new dependency alchis are making phat plat, and honest crafters are selling for less profit than before. Either you have a pocket alchi, or your craft is dead. SOE has to fix this ! <p>Message Edited by Ricassari on <span class="date_text">03-27-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:36 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote> </span><span>Even though I am under the impression you think I do not exist since you have completely ignored any post of mine which refutes what you want to believe.... Antonia Bayle, 9am PST, Qeynos broker (actual prices minus the broker markup) -- comparison prices included as well T5Pristine imbued ebon vanguard greeves 5p Luminous items 30g to 70g </span><span>Pristine imbued fulginate short sword 40g Luminous extract 35g to 40g --- Ebon cluster (or refinable) 3p 25g to 4p 99g </span><span>Pristine fulginate short sword (same crafter) 10g </span><span> Fulginate cluster 49c to 15s No non-imbued crafted ebon items on the broker Pristine forged fulginate armor pieces 4g 50s to 10g </span><span> T4 Pristine imbued cloth blouse 1p Glimmering items 9g to 50g Pristine shadow imbued cloth hex doll 1p </span><span>Glimmering extract 40g (only one available)</span> <span>Pristine ruin imbued cloth hex doll 1p </span><span>Feysteel cluster (or refinable) 40g</span> <span>Pristine fright imbued cloth hex doll 1p </span><span>Oak roots (or refinable) 15g to 35g</span> <span>Pristine choas imbued cloth hex doll 1p Feyiron cluster 1c to 10s</span> <span>Pristine imbued feysteel vanguard greeves 90g Tussah roots 25c to 4s Pristine imbued feysteel vanguard cuirass 90g Pristine imbued feysteel long sword 80g Pristine imbued feysteel dagger 80g </span><span>Pristine imbued feysteel short sword 80g </span><span>Pristine imbued feysteel great spear 65g </span><span></span><span>Pristine imbued feyiron greatsword 40g ---- Pristine tailored cloth pantaloons 30g Cloth blouse (drop item) 10g crafted Feyiron vanguard armor pieces 1g to 5g crafted Broadcloth armor pieces 1g 20s Feysteel weapons (drop items) 45s to 7g </span><span> T3 </span><span>Pristine imbued carbonite vanguard cuirass 50g Sparkling items 1g to 30g </span><span></span><span>Pristine imbued steel vanguard greeves 37g Sparkling extract 4g to 7g </span><span>Pristine disease imbued ash wand 20g Steel cluster (or refinable) 12g to 35g</span> <span>Imbued carbonite chainmail coat 10g Carbonite cluster 10c to 1s --- Severed ash 2c to 2s crafted Carbonite armor pieces 40s to 90s </span><span>No non-imbued crafted steel items on the broker </span><span>No non-imbued crafted ash weapons on the broker</span> <span> </span><span>T2 </span><span></span><span>Pristine magic imbued bone wand 20g Glowing items 39s to 50g</span> <span>Imbued bone round shield 20g Glowing extract 5g to 6g</span> <span>Flame imbued bone wand 15g Severed bone (or refinable) 2g to 20g </span><span>Pristine imbued turquoise ring of intelligence 5g Rough turquoise 1c to 1s </span><span></span><span>Pristine imbued turquoise ring of wisdom 2g Severed maple 1c to 50c Imbued maple long bow 1g 75s --- Bone furniture 5g crafted Turquoise jewelry 15s to 75s Maple furniture 30s to 2g</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote> That's pretty much where my server is at for prices as well. Maybe a little higher (we're a low population server) in some cases, but Enchantment items and extracts are dead on with what I see here. The final products are selling for a lot more compared to what the extracts are netting. I have an imbued Feysteel Long Sword and an Imbued Oak Kite Shield (Luckily I harvested the rares myself) and it still cost me 30g to have them crafted. </span><div></div>

Rijacki

03-29-2005, 09:57 PM

Ricassari can't dispute the prices and because they don't prove his points, I'm sure he's the one star bandit on the posts that refute what he is claiming. The harvests are being priced as if they are rares, or pretty close to it. The prices -are- coming down, though. But, I have a feeling a lot of "harvesters" who only look for rares are starting to delete these things as "unsellable" because they can't get rare prices for them. The extracts are being priced reasonably and generally even hit about the middle of the pack for the pricing on the harvests. Most are being extracted away from the broker for those who bring them to the alchemist directly and for probably a lot cheaper than on the broker. Those making the finished product are raising the prices on these items, but I would actually count that as more the fault of the harvesters. The real question is what you can't see on the broker. What alchemists are charging to extract something brought to them. What crafters are charging when they are brought a extract and, presumably, the other harvested item (i.e. a rare) to make into a finished product. <div></div>

Mafdet

03-29-2005, 10:32 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TroodonIE wrote:<BR><BR>Looking at the argument from another angle you might as well complain that any class is capable of producing items that others cant/need. Is it fair that we're all dependent on tailors for bags? :p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You're not,,, you can buy them from NPC merchants. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a tailor and bought a few from a Nek merchant. Back when "interdependancy" ruled, it was cheaper to do that than buy the buckles to make the bags myself,,, When there were any to buy! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any final product of any tradeskiller has quasi-equivalent products available from either NPC merchants, quests, and/or loot drops,,, keeps PCs in check somewhat, since a potential customer has options and can compare stats vs. price/effort before deciding to buy anything from a tradeskiller. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no check and balance to subs, especially since the removal of the lower level stuff from the wholesale NPCs. If you can't get or can't afford what subs you need to make what your character makes,,, you're dead in the water. If you're a rich toon raising an alt,,, you might not care but it kicks everyone else in the *self-bleeped*.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The crafting process seems painful and boring to me without even taking interdependancy into account. The process makes for only very determined crafters making it through,,, not many jolly souls around to happily crank ten million level X0 items out to sell at reasonable price to their fellow crafters. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I made six levels on my woodworker just supplying paper and quills to guild sages because they couldn't get the stuff on the broker and I basically am a sucker that hated when my tailor got stuck so felt for them,,, so I bored myself bonkers while they made ten levels and even cleared some cash,,, so sure can't blame others for not wanting to do it,,, sacrificing experience and boring one's self to tears should be worth something,,, the fact that it's needed just sux, imo. </DIV><BR>

Blackdog183

03-30-2005, 06:07 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mafdet wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TroodonIE wrote:<BR><BR>Looking at the argument from another angle you might as well complain that any class is capable of producing items that others cant/need. Is it fair that we're all dependent on tailors for bags? :p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You're not,,, you can buy them from NPC merchants.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a tailor and bought a few from a Nek merchant. Back when "interdependancy" ruled, it was cheaper to do that than buy the buckles to make the bags myself,,, When there were any to buy!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any final product of any tradeskiller has quasi-equivalent products available from either NPC merchants, quests, and/or loot drops,,, keeps PCs in check somewhat, since a potential customer has options and can compare stats vs. price/effort before deciding to buy anything from a tradeskiller.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no check and balance to subs, especially since the removal of the lower level stuff from the wholesale NPCs. If you can't get or can't afford what subs you need to make what your character makes,,, you're dead in the water. If you're a rich toon raising an alt,,, you might not care but it kicks everyone else in the *self-bleeped*.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The crafting process seems painful and boring to me without even taking interdependancy into account. The process makes for only very determined crafters making it through,,, not many jolly souls around to happily crank ten million level X0 items out to sell at reasonable price to their fellow crafters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I made six levels on my woodworker just supplying paper and quills to guild sages because they couldn't get the stuff on the broker and I basically am a sucker that hated when my tailor got stuck so felt for them,,, so I bored myself bonkers while they made ten levels and even cleared some cash,,, so sure can't blame others for not wanting to do it,,, sacrificing experience and boring one's self to tears should be worth something,,, the fact that it's needed just sux, imo.</DIV><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Your right, I can go to the merchant and get some absolute crap no stat weapons or armor..not that anyone in their right mind would run around in that junk. If you know a merchant where I can pick up some 28 slot boxes, please share the info...While your at it, wheres the totem merchant? Oh wait I also have the option to regen my power slow as a turtle now dont I. See my point, while there are items for sale at the merchant, true, they cant even begin to touch the crafted in usefulness.</DIV>

Mafdet

03-30-2005, 08:59 PM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackdog183 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Your right, I can go to the merchant and get some absolute crap no stat weapons or armor..not that anyone in their right mind would run around in that junk. If you know a merchant where I can pick up some 28 slot boxes, please share the info...While your at it, wheres the totem merchant? Oh wait I also have the option to regen my power slow as a turtle now dont I. See my point, while there are items for sale at the merchant, true, they cant even begin to touch the crafted in usefulness.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My merchant example was bags to answer the post I quoted. Also mentioned loot drops and quests. For armor and weapons, many quest items provide much better stats than regular crafted,,, which is a whole other tradeskill problem area, discussed on many other threads.</P> <P>The issue I was trying to address was "stop signs",,, I don't have to have superior satiated food to level, I don't even have to have satiated food to take on a particular mob as food has no impact on my in-combat regen,,, I just need to plan my positioning/strategy when fighting in areas that are dangerous to be in oop state following the battle. Now things go easier with with better food, so that's what I use so long as I can find reasonably priced stuff (usually can so not a big deal).</P> <P>When you put dependancy for a sub-component into tradeskilling, if you can't afford or can't find sub-components that you need,,, you stop, you do not pass GO. Taking out the dependancies was a very positive move from my perspective. Without sub availability, you were limited to refines,,, That's the equivalent of saying you can only kill the beetles, snakes and deer unless you have player made food,,, not the same issue.</P> <P>By introducing any dependancy on any sub,,, it's damaging on two fronts, 1) it gives carte blanc to the sub makers because if the crafter doesn't buy it from them, it limits what many can make,,, effectively as removing the recipes from their books, 2) for those with the connections to bypass the broker,,, the poor guy making the subs at a reasonable price feels pressured to make those subs far beyond the point that they should be moving on for experience and enjoyment purposes,,, making them charge much more on the broker "to make up for it",,, leading us back to #1.</P> <P>This is just the perspective of one that has felt the pointy painful prod of both ends of that stick and I just don't care for it and think tradeskill usefulness can be improved in many much more productive ways. Make the actual end products more useful and more diverse and you won't "need" artificial market stimulus for any of them,,, again,,, just one more opinion among many.</P></DIV>

Ricassari

03-31-2005, 03:00 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:Ricassari can't dispute the prices and because they don't prove his points, I'm sure he's the one star bandit on the posts that refute what he is claiming. <div></div><hr></blockquote> I do not even use stars. Neither 1s nor any others. I also do not use lies.</span><div></div>

Rijacki

03-31-2005, 06:52 AM

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Ricassari wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:Ricassari can't dispute the prices and because they don't prove his points, I'm sure he's the one star bandit on the posts that refute what he is claiming. <div></div><hr></blockquote> I do not even use stars. Neither 1s nor any others. I also do not use lies.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote> Are you trying to imply I lied in my post on the exact money amounts on the broker? What proof do you have -at all- that alchemists, all alchemists, are gouging on these new extracts? All proof is contra to you opinion that this is a new dependancy and alchemists are gouging all crafters on the extracts. I'm done with you. You are lost in your own illusion no matter what proof there is otherwise. One last thing, though, my boyfriend has been lately (as in within the last couple days) making and selling T3 light and very light armor. It's not made from rares and not imbued (he's not quite 29 yet), but it is selling almost as fast as he can make it. Some pieces sell faster than others, of course, but pants, non-imbued pants, still sell the fastest of all. Chests sell, too, but a little slower than pants. I think that even refutes your blanket statement than nothing non-imbued would -ever- sell. Ironically, I don't even make WROTs for him. He makes them himself because he can and he gets experience from them while I don't.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Rijacki on <span class=date_text>03-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:57 PM</span>

Blackdog183

03-31-2005, 07:55 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ricassari wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rijacki wrote:<BR>Ricassari can't dispute the prices and because they don't prove his points, I'm sure he's the one star bandit on the posts that refute what he is claiming.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I do not even use stars. Neither 1s nor any others. <BR><BR>I also do not use lies.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>And im elvis lol</DIV>

Crotal

04-01-2005, 01:17 AM

<P>On Najena, Armorers are charging up to 10g to Imbue tier 4 BPs and Legs.</P> <P>Tier 4 harvests for extracts go for 5g at the lowest, and refined, almost never sell when priced above 10g. An Alchemist who is lucky can make 5g per refine selling these on the broker. </P> <P>Considering the Alchemst is refining for more than one end product tradeskill, this seems to have reached a fairly equitable balance. The alchemest makes money if he buys smart, and sells low. The tradeskiller making the end product certainly makes money, as these items seem to fly off the broker. Its almost impossible to buy them outright, and less time consuming to simply commission them directly from LFW tradeskillers.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Crotalus on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:18 PM</span>

Tradeskill_Addict

04-01-2005, 05:23 AM

<DIV>hmm.....i have to admit that prices are coming down quite fast on Lucan </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>glowing raws are priced from 25-90 silver with pristine extracts offered as low as 1 gold</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sparkling raws are roughly 1-2 gold with extracts as low as 3 gold (and still there after I checked last time an hour ago)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on the other hand I have yet to see a SINGLE luminous extract on the broker although there are always some raws for sale.</DIV>

Blackdog183

04-01-2005, 11:00 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV>hmm.....i have to admit that prices are coming down quite fast on Lucan </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>glowing raws are priced from 25-90 silver with pristine extracts offered as low as 1 gold</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sparkling raws are roughly 1-2 gold with extracts as low as 3 gold (and still there after I checked last time an hour ago)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on the other hand I have yet to see a SINGLE luminous extract on the broker although there are always some raws for sale.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You may not have very many high level alcheys, that could be a part of it. That and most of the t5 exctracts Im doing now are LFW orders, or ones that I am picking up myself.

Quai Chan Ka

04-02-2005, 04:17 PM

First off i have to admit i got a chuckle when i saw Baelzaron get cornered like that from his previous alchemist thread, very funny but nothing to get [Removed for Content] about Bael it does happen to the best of us. Second yes i agree with u Tradeskill_Addict the extracts do have an interdependency issue with crafter classes and it should change, preferrably to have the extracts as an item anyone can apply to their equipment as opposed to the system of imbuing that is set up today. Im an alchemist and this would be VERY beneficial to our class but im having second thoughts of this solution u see even if u were to take other crafters out of the loop of imbuing people will still want it. You see either way u look at it people still have many things to imbue onto their toon and that means that for every 25+ char thats out there, there will a possible profit to make from each of these people from extracts just like there is today not including the few who have all 50+ fable and heritage equipment, except the ones who will be recieving the profit will be alchemist alone now im an honest guy i chose this class because i wanted to make money to buy stuff and for essences to supply my toons with but this would be an imbalance of cash once again for alchemists and although i do want to be filthy rich i dont want imbalance and there are alot of slots in a toon to fill with imbued equipment so add a percentage of cost for each of those slots that can hold one and u can get an idea of what an alchemist would make if that were the reality. <DIV>This is however one of the possible scenarios i wanted to point out, and i hope im wrong because that would mean this is a great idea and alchemists are truly in need of their own great end product after this class was shot in the head by the "Patch of Doom".</DIV>