HO's that make me say, "huh?"

[Joker3]

<DIV>Ok, here is the thing. I was in a group last night doing some mass killing of 'crows. Our group consisted of a scout, mage, cleric, and 2 fighters. It was a great group and we were able to complete multiple HO's per battle. There were several HOs that I saw over and over again, but I had no idea what they actually did. I assume they were either buffs or debuffs as I didn't see our target taking any damage but it irks me to have to guess.  I am sure there is some way to filter the combat window spam so I can figure it out, but it seems like it should be easier than that.  In a previous post a dev said basically that nothing that affects your character (for example vitality) should be a secret and I think that HO's should fall into that catagory as well.  Here is my idea.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IDEA HERE!: :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV>After you successfully complete a HO x number of times, you should be able to get an inspect window for it, much like spells currently have. It should tell you what the HO actually does. That is all I want to know. I don't want to know HOW to do the HO, just what it does. I don't want to have to puzzle over battle spam for 20 minutes just to figure out if it is a worthless HO that we have been running for the last 3 hours. </DIV>

[Townl]

<DIV>Thats a great idea and to add to that I would like to suggest to at least list somwere on EQ2 players I list of the all the completeed HO's much like Item discovery. Basicly a list of all completed HO effects that have been dicovered how they effect the group/encounter/player, duration of the effect and how it was triggred as well as who discovered it.</DIV>

[Bodaciu]

<P>Some HO's can be selected in one of the maintained spells windows, or the long/short terms buffs.  They tell you what is happeneing.</P> <P>But, like the OP said, others we just doe not have a clue.  We notice little difference in damage done, etc etc.  HOW can we be sure these are actually working??</P>

[Nacoa]

Many of the buffing HOs apply a buff only to the player that completes the HO. They can examine the buff in the spell effects window to see what it does, but no one else in the group sees it.<p>Message Edited by Nacoa on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:01 PM</span>

[GraymaneGravitic]

<P>As primarily a soloer I have little experience with group HOs, but I have loads of experience with solo HOs and I also have many questions.</P> <P>HOs remain mostly a mystery.</P> <P>What prompts a particular HO? I often use the same combinations of combat arts and they produce different HOs, seemingly at random.</P> <P>I start the HO with the HO starter ability (can't remember exact name). I follow with Power Cleave and it activates the wheel. I follow with Inflame and set off the HO. However, this same combination triggers either Sky Cleave or the Anvil one (can't remember the exact name), with no way for me to guess which one I will get.</P> <P>What determines the number of steps necessary to activate the wheel for any given HO? </P> <P>It seems if I use one of the flashing combat arts to start the chain immediately after using the HO starter ability, I go immediately to the wheel after only one combat art. If I lag a little in firing off one of the flashing combat arts and don't immediately follow the HO starter with it, I end up with anywhere from 2-5 steps in the chain of necessary combat arts before the wheel is triggered. Some of the flashing combat arts seem to never trigger the wheel without my having to use one of the other flashing combat arts that almost always trigger the wheel.</P> <P>It is all very confusing, Even keeping a close eye on events doesn't lead to any kind of intuitive understanding of what is going on.</P> <P>Could we please get a little better explanation of what is going on?</P> <P> </P>

[Joker3]

<DIV>I know that some HO's give you a temporary buff when they go off, but it is pretty tough to comb through your 24 other maintained spell icons and find the one that is given by the HO and right click on it to examine it before it expires in 8 seconds. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It just seems waaaay more difficult than it should be. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the above poster, HO's are random. You have no way of "choosing" the particular HO. There are some that are rare and some that are common, but all are random.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:</DIV> <DIV>When you pick a skill to advance the HO chain and it does not advance, it is because your target either blocked, parried or riposte-ed :smileyhappy: your attack.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Joker3 on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:45 PM</span>

[FamilyManFir]

I'll tell you what my understanding is, although I can't quote any sources.When you start a HO the type of HO it will be is determined randomly, with certain HOs more likely than others. To take the simplest case, your solo HOs, after you trigger the HO and then set it (with your Power Cleave) you will most often see Sky Cleave. Somewhat less often you'll see Crushing Anvil. Occasionally you'll see Hero's Armor. There's no way to pre-select which HO you'll get, with one exception, explained later.If you're in a group, trigger a HO and don't immediately follow up with Power Cleave you're quite likely to result in a multi-class HO when another member of your group hits one of their Spells or Combat Arts. Even immediately hitting Power Cleave doesn't automatically kick you into the solo HO series; one of the other group members may be halfway through their Spell and it completes before your Power Cleave. Again, once the HO has been triggered by one class and then set by another the type of HO it will be is random within a certain set. For example, if a Fighter triggers a HO and a Priest sets it you may get Chalice of Life, Crippling Shroud, Divine Blade or Divine Nobility (I don't know what the odds are for each).The one way that players can affect which HO comes up is with Rogues. Rogues have the option, sometimes, of using a Combat Art to "flip" the HO (there's something to do with a coin icon but as I don't play a Rogue yet I'm not familiar with it). However, as I understand it, all the Rogue does is re-run the random determination of what HO it will be so you could just come up with the same HO you had before.Hope that helps.

[GraymaneGravitic]

<P>Wow, Thanks for the info guys. That's a big help in understanding how it works. </P> <P>One of my combat arts is a green con app II ability and it is the one that never seems to trigger the HO. Maybe I should be looking at the chat window and I would see that it is being blocked or parried more than the other higher con arts.</P>

[Blackin_DeMast]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>FamilyManFirst wrote:<BR>I'll tell you what my understanding is, although I can't quote any sources.<BR></P> <P>..........................<BR><BR><STRONG>The one way that players can affect which HO comes up is with Rogues. Rogues have the option, sometimes, of using a Combat Art to "flip" the HO (there's something to do with a coin icon but as I don't play a Rogue yet I'm not familiar with it). However, as I understand it, all the Rogue does is re-run the random determination of what HO it will be so you could just come up with the same HO you had before.<BR></STRONG><BR>Hope that helps.<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is really close to how it works. It's done by any Scout class, not "Rogues". Therefor any Ranger, Bard, Assassin, Swashy, etc can do this trick. As he stated, in your HO window sometimes you'll see a little green coin in the bottom right. When this little coin is present, a Scout can run a debuff or whatever we choose to use usually to "Progress" a HO and it re-runs the random HO selector. Sometimes, you'll get the exact same HO, sometimes you'll get one a little worse, sometimes it'll flip it into a really really nice one!<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Blackan</DIV> <DIV>38 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Runnyeye</DIV>