Axes and Polearms...Crusader/Paladin/Shadowknight community wants some information PLEASE

[Valhu]

<DIV> <DIV>This is moving a post by JoxerNL located at <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8026" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8026</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**************************</DIV> <DIV>Like the title suggests, im wondering "Why" we cant use these, while it's clearly stated we can..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some proof that states we can :</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/pdfs/EQII%20Revised%20Manual%20FINAL.PDF" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/pdfs/EQII%20Revised%20Manual%20FINAL.PDF</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV>The "updated manual" in PDF format, states clearly under Crusaders, Paladins, & Shadowknights :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Armor........ Heavy, Vanguard</DIV> <DIV>Weapons.. <U>Axe</U>, Sword, <U>Polearm</U>, Flail, Hammer, Mace, Staff, and more</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**************************</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This has been around since release?  Come on... you are not even living up to your <U>Written descriptions </U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the love of God.... at least tell us if we are supposed to or not.  Is that to much to ask?</DIV></DIV>

[spidey]

Yeah I agree it would be nice to be able to look in the manual and read factual information about a particular class. I was pretty ticked when I had my axe rendered useless when I chose the crusader class after reading in black and white that fighters/crusaders/shadowknights can use axes. I have learned to live with it but at least explain yourselves.

[Troodon]

Currently Crusaders have no form of piercing damage. So what are we supposed to do when we encounter an opponent immune to crush and slash based damage?Is there any real justification for the weapon use restrictions Crusaders endure?

[Case21]

<DIV>Go to <A href="http://www.everquest2.com" target=_blank>http://www.everquest2.com</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Click onto Characters</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Click onto Archtypes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Click onto Fighter</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Click on Shadowknight</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We can use the following Weapons: Swords, Flail, Hammer, Mace, and more</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was updated shortly after the game was released, and gets mentioned everytime this comes up in a thread. It sucks that the manual is filled w/ wrong information but its pretty clear these are the weapons we were intended to have.</DIV>

[Valhu]

<DIV>Why is it clear?  The EQ2 site is built from in game information... of course it is going to say no axes cause in game we can not use them.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry, but the "official" manual takes precedence over the EQ2 web site in my opinion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All we want is some official response on the issue.  I did not mention any Dev's or Moderators in the title... I am being polite and linking to the source of the ocnfusion....  totaly trying to follow the forum rules... please throw us a frikin bone...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes</DIV> <DIV>No</DIV> <DIV>We are not sure becuase of game balance issue "X".... whatever, but please do not ignore the question anymore.</DIV>

[Di0Xi]

you real answer is the "updated" manual has out of date information, can you not see that?Crusaders had a lot more weapons in beta, they even used to be able to dual wield but that was changed. Crusaders have a lot of utility, so this restriction was put on them as a cost for that I feel.

[Baelzharon]

Flambergs do piercing damage, but are listed as Great Swords and usuable by Crusader types. We have an option for piercing damage atleast.Way I look at it the versitility of Crusader class (and subs) is not worth it over not being able to use Tower Shields, Lances (/boggle) and Polearms. I could live without Axes but some of the other items listed just don't make any sense.

[Valhu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Di0XiDe wrote:<BR>you real answer is the "updated" manual has out of date information, can you not see that?<BR><BR>Crusaders had a lot more weapons in beta, they even used to be able to dual wield but that was changed. Crusaders have a lot of utility, so this restriction was put on them as a cost for that I feel.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Crusaders have a lot of utility?  What do they have compared to the other fighters that makes up for this lack of weapon selection... and lets not even talk about ranged slot.  Spells?  Brawlers and Warriors have combat arts that are just as good... I really don't see as how the crusader has "a lot of utility" to make up for it, but that is my opinion and you have yours.... HOWEVER.... <U>balance is not the point of the post</U></P> <P>The point is the games <EM>official updated manual</EM>.... released by <U>THEM not ME</U> as official says that crusaders have that selection.</P> <P>You are ASSUMING that the manual has out of date information based on??????</P> <P>Can you prove the manual is not the way things are intended to be?  </P> <P>Are you a developer or have talked to one personally?</P> <P>Until we here a MOD or DEV tell us, "the manual is wrong" I am NOT going to take Joe Schmoe player #3442's word for it.....</P> <P> </P>

[Troodon]

<blockquote><hr>Baelzharon wrote:Flambergs do piercing damage, but are listed as Great Swords and usuable by Crusader types. We have an option for piercing damage atleast.Way I look at it the versitility of Crusader class (and subs) is not worth it over not being able to use Tower Shields, Lances (/boggle) and Polearms. I could live without Axes but some of the other items listed just don't make any sense.<hr></blockquote>Ah! Thank you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Styk]

Lol if you dont know how valuable a paladin is then your not playing your class right.... Heals and more heals , ac buff eta that is why a paladin always gets a spot in groups i buildStrykr Destructicus47 BerserkerAB server

[Bootstwadd]

<DIV>An answer would be appreciated.  And not simply for Crusader types...I'm sure an increase in weapon selection for all classes should be considered...or at least would be nice.  </DIV> <DIV>Even adding in a graded system...such as every 10th level after 20, the player is permitted to choose ONE class of weapon or shield or ranged weapon to add to his arsenal.  </DIV> <DIV>Think of the individualism options then!  While basic class bonuses would still apply...this could at the very least offer a solution to end game balance.</DIV> <DIV>I am sure those classes with access to ALL weapon types (including dual wield and ranged) and shield types would cause a stink...although, were you to introduce this system, those choosing a new skill would then have to work their new skill up, meaning they would be less effective for a time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The downside is that it could lead to farming, however, that seems to be an issue already...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not asking for a dual wielding SK...tho that would be nice...And I'm sure some mages would love to wield a sword ala Gandalf...but it's an idea...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Bootstwadd]

<DIV>Whoops, double post.</DIV> <DIV>But I suppose this would be too close to EQ 1 and the AA's (not having played EQ1...I'm not sure)...</DIV> <DIV>Sounds perty darned great to me...</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Boombahyay on <SPAN class=date_text>03-15-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:32 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Boombahyay on <span class=date_text>03-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:03 PM</span>

[Valhu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Styker wrote:<BR>Lol if you dont know how valuable a paladin is then your not playing your class right.... Heals and more heals , ac buff eta that is why a paladin always gets a spot in groups i build<BR><BR>Strykr Destructicus<BR>47 Berserker<BR>AB server<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Well... since I am not a paladin ..... I can lifetap for 15hp though! W00T!

[Janl]

The useable weapons for crusdaders was changed during beta. Same as the restrictions for Vanguard armor. Same as priests and mages being able to use throwing weapons. Just deal with it and move on. They have released a new and updated manual on the web a while back. We all knew the in-box manual was outdated when we started playing (or should have).

[gooli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valhuru wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Styker wrote:<BR>Lol if you dont know how valuable a paladin is then your not playing your class right.... Heals and more heals , ac buff eta that is why a paladin always gets a spot in groups i build<BR><BR>Strykr Destructicus<BR>47 Berserker<BR>AB server<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Well... since I am not a paladin ..... I can lifetap for 15hp though! W00T!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Evac comes at a high price it seems <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Troodon]

This post might be of interest: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8159#M8159Moorgard wrote:"The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors. That said, I talked about this issue with the designers today. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to giving crusaders the ability to use axes and great axes, which would let you wield items like the SBH. However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time. This change probably won't make it into Live Update #5, but it can probably be worked into #6."

[Valhu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Janl wrote:<BR>The useable weapons for crusdaders was changed during beta. Same as the restrictions for Vanguard armor. Same as priests and mages being able to use throwing weapons. Just deal with it and move on. They have released a new and updated manual on the web a while back. We all knew the in-box manual was outdated when we started playing (or should have).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>We are talking about the updated manual.... der!<BR>

[Valhu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TroodonIE wrote:<BR>This post might be of interest: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8159#M8159<BR><BR>Moorgard wrote:<BR>"The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors.<BR><BR>That said, I talked about this issue with the designers today. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to giving crusaders the ability to use axes and great axes, which would let you wield items like the SBH.<BR><BR>However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time.<BR><BR>This change probably won't make it into Live Update #5, but it can probably be worked into #6."<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If this is happens then that would be excellent... at least in my opinion.</P> <P>I think one of the main complaints has been lack of access to the SBH..... I would happily take the ability to use axes and great axes and toss polearms to the side....<BR></P>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<DIV>By the way, flamberges are not piercing..they were moved to the slashing category.</DIV>

[Troodon]

<blockquote><hr>uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<DIV>By the way, flamberges are not piercing..they were moved to the slashing category.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Erf, thank you for the clarification. :/So I ask again, exactly what is the reason for our limited weapon selection? What do Crusaders gain that justifies being so hamstrung?<p>Message Edited by TroodonIE on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:23 PM</span>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<DIV> <DIV>Is anyone else concerned about Moors post? after 3 months they come out and say it was always intended for palys to get hosed on weapon selection. Nice..it would have been better to know from the beggining.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now lets see:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserker- more mitigation, more DPS, usage of slahing ,crushing, piercing and ranged items</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians-WAY more mitigation, lower DPS, usage of slashing, crushing, piercing and ranged items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks-more DPS, less mitigation, usage of slashing, crushing, piercing and ranged items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruisers-same as monks, slightly more DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, let me get this straight..we gave up all this and the stats loss so we can LOH every 30 MINUTES?! and our buffs? EVERY fighter class gets buffs, some are  much better than ours.  So what exactly did we get in return for our heals?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought DPS followed with mitigation/evasion..so by that rationale we should be behind monks/bruisers in DPS, but thats questionable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played my paly to 48, because I thought our [Removed for Content] were bugs, since NO DEV ever came on to say what Moorgard just told us, 4 MONTHS into the game.  Thx again SOE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my Paly and I have done the best with him that I can, even though it seems I'm having to fight SoE to improve him, instead of A_RAID_MOB_01</DIV> <P>By the way, the reason why piercing is important is because some raid MOBS are immune to slashing and crushing. So get ready to be on the sidelines if you raid these MOBS.</P> <P>*I posted this in the Paladin section, but this seems a more fitting venue.</P></DIV>

[bboymike]

<DIV>Pal/SK is based off the theory of being knights rite? Then i dont understand why they cant use axes and 2h Pierce weapons... Knights use lances in the old days lol, EQ1 had alot better weapon selection for Pal/Sk including a ranged weapon, thats more stats pal/SK class miss out on... they made zerkers take up the pal/SK skillz is what it seems like to me, and gave them the dual wield ability on top of that, not to mention agro is kinda lack for sk/pal, SoE seemed to over nerf pal/sk in this game cause of all the crying people were doing in eq 1, but the upgrades in taunt for wars fixed it, but in eq2 its all kinds of messed up... I wont be playing my paladin for a very long time, and feel for those who have chose the class off of prior experience... and what happened to paladins stuns? havent seen one yet... or group heals dont know what else they nerfed on SK's besides the horse, taunt, and weapon choices... Anyway hopefully they will even the table some day, sux to run around with a hammer or sword all day, pretty borring to see all the guardians an zerkers get the kewl weapons and pal/sk get left with a handful of good weapons to choose from, which the zerkers and guardians will still get also........ Need to make some weapons class specific too, i am tired of looking like everyone in the game... it shows lack of creativity that everyone is using the same items... Ghoulbane for example, i wasnt pleased seeing war type class using it let alone a FURY/Warden... c'mon how lame is that, a once Paladin only weapon from eq1 getting destributed to any class that can use a slashing skill... quest for it is fine using it is a different story i think! just my 2 cents, have fun ripping this post up :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Blackguard]

Don't post a thread that links to another thread. That said, a reply related to this issue can be found in the following thread:<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8159#M8159" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8159#M8159</a>