Alchemy and Carpentry still not fixed or even looked at...

[Odissi]

<DIV><U>Here are the main problems with these two classes</U>:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Carpentry:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Some furniture looks the same throughout tiers.</LI> <LI>Most furniture made by a carpenter can be bought at an NPC vendor for a fraction of the price.</LI> <LI>Shelves stick backwards in the walls.</LI> <LI>Some rugs stick upwards off the ground.</LI> <LI>Tier 5 Strongboxes are the exact same as Tier 4 Strongboxes.</LI> <LI>Impossible to get rare woods for furniture unless you harvest it your self. Having severed fir for a heritage item makes the price sky rocket.</LI> <LI>Only have up to Tier 2 woodworking skills which we need for every piece of lumber we make.</LI> <LI>Bugged reaction buttons that do not do what they say.</LI></UL> <P>Alchemy:</P> <UL> <LI>Making washes, oils, resins, or tempers are useless as ANYONE can make them. Let alone, just as well as us.</LI> <LI>Impossible to sell these chemicals.</LI> <LI>Potions and posions still suck.</LI> <LI>Selling essences is a stroke of luck.</LI> <LI>Poisons from NPCs are better than that made of a player.</LI> <LI>No one buys ink any more either, as sages can make their own.</LI></UL> <P> </P> <P>So that's almost 61 wasted levels, thanks SoE.</P>

[SinR]

you're welcome

[Aaja]

<DIV>Carpenter here, just want to say I concur. Don't add please SOE, fix! Anyone notice the drop in people tradeskilling the last day or two? On the other hand, you got money coming in by the dump truck full, not much incentive really to do much of anything I'd say. </DIV>

[fmj]

<DIV>This has been resolved</DIV><p>Message Edited by fmjim on <span class=date_text>06-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:02 AM</span>

[SinR]

you're all welcome

[fmj]

<DIV>Thank you for contributing to this thread SinR. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pssst sign me up for tehubah d00dz club!!111! too....</DIV>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>Roast me if you like but I seem to be lucky.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I only really play one character a 22nd Templar who is 21st Tailor atm. I craft my own backpacks and sell the non-pristines which keeps me busy enough to lvl as a crafter the same slow way I lvl as an adventurer and brings some coin to. I have to admit that I make more money on drops though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My 11th warrior/ 14th craftsman makes  food and drink which still seems sufficient enough for my 22nd templar who harvests the raws in return so I guess I could even make some money I'd spend an evening exclusively at the stove.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still have a 11th scout, 11th artisan whom I dumped (he should have made spell upgrades for my templar but its way to much time to lvlv him to scribe and I can always buy  app IV for 40-80 silver). If I ever decide to play him again thiugh I could  easily supply him with crafted armor and food. I'd probaby lvl him to a scribe and he'll do a good job for himself and the templar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So for my small *family* everything works fine but probably only because I see crafting as a way to support myself and not to make money......</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:16 AM</span>

[Suraklin]

<DIV>Ah SinR likes to Troll I see. So why don't ya change your Ogre avatar to a Troll. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back on  topic. I don't have anything but a Provisioner at the moment. Got it to 34 and said screw it. Since retiring my provisioner I've made 2 plat in a week just from selling harvested items and shiny (?'s) I find on the ground.  Only harvest for like 3-4 hours a day too. No way in hell I could make that much selling tier 4 food/drink during a week. Hope they fix all crafting issues so that crafting becomes fun for everyone again.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Suraklin on <span class=date_text>03-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:48 AM</span>

[fmj]

<DIV>In response to tradeskill_addict. I am happy for you that it's working well for you. I think we will all agree that T1-T3 are nice. It's really when you start getting into T4/T5 that most classes turn into money sinks. Just to clarify what i was saying. However, I do wish you the best in that you can stay self sefficiant. </DIV>

[Odissi]

A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><BR>As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This sounds like you choose alchemy to make money not to supply your toons with stuff they need. </P> <P>if this is really so, you are playing the wrong came - its called<FONT color=#ff9900> Everquest 2</FONT>, not <FONT color=#99ff00>$ TRADESKILL TYCOON IV $<BR></P></FONT>

[Odissi]

<blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Odissius wrote:A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This sounds like you choose alchemy to make money not to supply your toons with stuff they need. </P><P>if this is really so, you are playing the wrong came - its called<FONT color=#ff9900> Everquest 2</FONT>, not <FONT color=#99ff00>$ TRADESKILL TYCOON IV $</P></FONT><hr></blockquote>This is my only source of income...I use alchemy to support my armorer, my carpenter, my fighter, and to make some profit along the way. What's so wrong with this?<p>Message Edited by Odissius on <span class=date_text>03-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:54 AM</span>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><BR>As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This sounds like you choose alchemy to make money not to supply your toons with stuff they need. </P> <P>if this is really so, you are playing the wrong came - its called<FONT color=#ff9900> Everquest 2</FONT>, not <FONT color=#99ff00>$ TRADESKILL TYCOON IV $<BR></P></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>This is my only source of income...I use alchemy to support my armorer, my carpenter, my fighter, and to make some profit along the way. What's so wrong with this? <P>Message Edited by Odissius on <SPAN class=date_text>03-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:54 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There's nothing wrong with this - play as you like.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but the game was simply not designed the way that crafters produce income for adventurers. And it was certainly not designed to make crafters rich.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so stop complaining - this game is about characters, not money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I consider myself Mr. average casual unguilded mediocre player. And even I see no problems in making my toon to a lvl 50 templar/ lvl 50 tailor by the time the game will allow lvls 51+ (AND enjoying the way to 50)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So why should anyone else do?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Baelzharon]

As a 34 Alchemist I've really started to appreciate the adventure side of the game now. It's pretty fun outside the Tradeskill dungeon and I thank SoE for utterly destroying my Artisan class and forcing me to discover the other 1/2 of the game./sarcasm offThere really needs something to be done for Alchemists so we have a better market for our wares. There are way way WAY too many Adept 1's out there, and trying to compete in the Adept III market is tough.Alchemist created Potions and Poisons need to go through the same revital process Food/Drink did. Lets get all that crap off the NPC vendors, or make our player made versions so much better Players will take notice.Where are Adept II's, Master II's or Master III components? When will these advanced forms of spells become available for players to make?

[Odissi]

<blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Odissius wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><BR>As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This sounds like you choose alchemy to make money not to supply your toons with stuff they need. </P><P>if this is really so, you are playing the wrong came - its called<FONT color=#ff9900> Everquest 2</FONT>, not <FONT color=#99ff00>$ TRADESKILL TYCOON IV $<BR></P></FONT><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>This is my only source of income...I use alchemy to support my armorer, my carpenter, my fighter, and to make some profit along the way. What's so wrong with this?<P>Message Edited by Odissius on <SPAN class=date_text>03-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:54 AM</SPAN><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>There's nothing wrong with this - play as you like.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>but the game was simply not designed the way that crafters produce income for adventurers. And it was certainly not designed to make crafters rich.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>so stop complaining - this game is about characters, not money.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I consider myself Mr. average casual unguilded mediocre player. And even I see no problems in making my toon to a lvl 50 templar/ lvl 50 tailor by the time the game will allow lvls 51+ (AND enjoying the way to 50)</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>So why should anyone else do?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>You won't see my point until you hit atleast a Tier 3 Alchemist, you therefore have nothing to contribute to this thread....unless you happen to have a carpenter.

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR><BR>You won't see my point until you hit atleast a Tier 3 Alchemist, you therefore have nothing to contribute to this thread....unless you happen to have a carpenter.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>quite funny - and you wont see my point until you are done with the money sims and try a fantasy role-playing game :smileyvery-happy:<BR>

[Amise]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>That doesn't fix Alchemy at all.  Potions need a huge overhaul, since they are currently utterly useless.  Poisons need some tweaks to make them sufficiently better than those you can buy from NPC vendors.   Your fix doesn't solve the problem of low demand for poisons, potions, or fighter app4s, all it does is allow alchemists to dominate the WROT and Ink market again.   That isn't why I chose Alchemy as a tradeskill.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV>

[Bewts]

As a side note, Alchemists have no buyback loopholes to exploit from a vendor. Their combat essences are an irregular demand item, same for poisons and potions. Chemicals are consistently needed and used, but the demand for them is now gone because everyone can make them. In order to raise the demand, a simple raising of the fuel costs from 1 to 2 fuels for non alchemists will allow alchemists even at tier 5 to make a little bit of money selling them. It comes out to just over 1gp once you do the math to sell chemicals to all artisans at break even costs for them and profits for the alchemist. That would be a perfect world IMO...

[Odissi]

<blockquote><hr>Amise wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>That doesn't fix Alchemy at all. Potions need a huge overhaul, since they are currently utterly useless. Poisons need some tweaks to make them sufficiently better than those you can buy from NPC vendors. Your fix doesn't solve the problem of low demand for poisons, potions, or fighter app4s, all it does is allow alchemists to dominate the WROT and Ink market again. That isn't why I chose Alchemy as a tradeskill.</FONT></DIV><DIV></FONT> </DIV><DIV></FONT> </DIV><hr></blockquote>I agree completely. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Baelzharon]

A rather simple solution would be to increase the timers on the Potion buffs. I've found some great potions, but they only last like 2 mintuts, or at best 15 minutes. Now most of these were off rare potions (Patterned Glass) which is not easily found. With the Alchemist changes we're now fairly useless and the only option I see that could save us would be increasing the usefullness of Potions.Some very easy fixes to immediatly increase player use of potions would be:1. Increase potion timers from 2-15 minutes to 30-60 minutes, or increase the charges dramatically to make these viable for players to use.2. Allow potions and poison vials of the same kind to stack inside bags like food/drink currently can.3. Remove NPC poisons from the game, or at minimum please reduce their effect like you did for NPC Food/Drink.4. Add rare alchemist drops to make even more rare potions/poisons (example Drakota Blood).

[Odissi]

<blockquote><hr>Baelzharon wrote:A rather simple solution would be to increase the timers on the Potion buffs. I've found some great potions, but they only last like 2 mintuts, or at best 15 minutes. Now most of these were off rare potions (Patterned Glass) which is not easily found. With the Alchemist changes we're now fairly useless and the only option I see that could save us would be increasing the usefullness of Potions.Some very easy fixes to immediatly increase player use of potions would be:1. Increase potion timers from 2-15 minutes to 30-60 minutes, or increase the charges dramatically to make these viable for players to use.2. Allow potions and poison vials of the same kind to stack inside bags like food/drink currently can.3. Remove NPC poisons from the game, or at minimum please reduce their effect like you did for NPC Food/Drink.4. Add rare alchemist drops to make even more rare potions/poisons (example Drakota Blood).<hr></blockquote>Great post, fixing these potions and posions will be great for my adventurer...if they can make them comparable to Morrowind III: The Elder Scrolls we will definitely have a winner.

[Gath]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I see people saying this is a stupid idea but I'd love to see how they feel if everyone could buy  a book and put in double the fuel and make pristine armor, pristine weapons, pristine back packs etc, then the shoe would be on the other foot because it would negatively effect you as it did alchemists.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The WORTs were my main market before the patch, which now is almost totally dead.  Friday night I crafted a ton of T4 WORTs and went into trader mode until Sunay night.  I had about 10 stacks an only 1 stack sold, and I was the lowest price listed all weekend.  I finally sold them when I advertised in the trade channel I was going to sell to the vendor and basically sold them for a few copper over what I had in making them.  Before someone says it does not cost that much to make them, let me see you drop your prices of your pristine armor, weapons, back packs etc, to what it costs to make them, otherwise shut it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the idea of non-alchemist produced inks being lower than pristine is a valid idea.  That way people can still make their own inks for grinding exp and alchemists would still have a market for their pristine inks.</DIV>

[Odissi]

<blockquote><hr>Gathis wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV>I see people saying this is a stupid idea but I'd love to see how they feel if everyone could buy a book and put in double the fuel and make pristine armor, pristine weapons, pristine back packs etc, then the shoe would be on the other foot because it would negatively effect you as it did alchemists. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The WORTs were my main market before the patch, which now is almost totally dead. Friday night I crafted a ton of T4 WORTs and went into trader mode until Sunay night. I had about 10 stacks an only 1 stack sold, and I was the lowest price listed all weekend. I finally sold them when I advertised in the trade channel I was going to sell to the vendor and basically sold them for a few copper over what I had in making them. Before someone says it does not cost that much to make them, let me see you drop your prices of your pristine armor, weapons, back packs etc, to what it costs to make them, otherwise shut it.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I think the idea of non-alchemist produced inks being lower than pristine is a valid idea. That way people can still make their own inks for grinding exp and alchemists would still have a market for their pristine inks.</DIV><hr></blockquote>I completely agree...I would love to buy a book and make my own armor and laugh in their faces! But, I would much rather have everything the same as before the interdependency nerf.

[Bleusong]

carpentry has been ignored...completely...here are some threads to give folks better understanding about what is wrong with carpentry..<a href=http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a5&message.id=1481&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 target=_blank>consolidated carpentry issues by Didi</a><a href=http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=47041&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 target=_blank> more carpentry issues, and links to other carpentry posts on forum</a>thank you..i have no more energy left to talk about this more...../shrug..thank you for your time, everyone.

[RoseWhi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>carpentry has been ignored...completely...here are some threads to give folks better understanding about what is wrong with carpentry..<BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a5&message.id=1481&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>consolidated carpentry issues by Didi</A><BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=47041&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>more carpentry issues, and links to other carpentry posts on forum</A><BR><BR>thank you..i have no more energy left to talk about this more..<BR><BR>.../shrug..thank you for your time, everyone.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Adding insult to injury, Blackguard has posted to the first of these two threads, so we <STRONG><EM>know </EM></STRONG>that SOE is aware of the issues.</DIV>

[Odissi]

<blockquote><hr>RoseWhite wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Bleusong wrote:<BR>carpentry has been ignored...completely...here are some threads to give folks better understanding about what is wrong with carpentry..<BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a5&message.id=1481&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>consolidated carpentry issues by Didi</A><BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=47041&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>more carpentry issues, and links to other carpentry posts on forum</A><BR><BR>thank you..i have no more energy left to talk about this more..<BR><BR>.../shrug..thank you for your time, everyone.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV>Adding insult to injury, Blackguard has posted to the first of these two threads, so we <STRONG><EM>know </EM></STRONG>that SOE is aware of the issues.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Well then, it looks like they still need to fix alchemy.

[Bleusong]

maybe they are...personally i think it got lost somewhere..

[RoseWhi]

<DIV>There is also this thread about <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=housing&message.id=13236" target=_blank>What Furniture Is Bugged</A>. Blackguard not only responded to the thread, he told us to keep it up to date (because, apparently, the devs don't bother with such trivialities) and that such posts will "help us out." Help them out identifying the troublemakers who want what was promised, I'm guessing.</DIV>

[Meldari]

<blockquote><hr>Odissius wrote:<DIV>Poisons from NPCs are better than that made of a player.</P><hr></blockquote>While I agree with your other points, the above quote is flat-out wrong.

[Odissi]

<blockquote><hr>Meldarion wrote:<blockquote><hr>Odissius wrote:<DIV>Poisons from NPCs are better than that made of a player.</P><hr></blockquote>While I agree with your other points, the above quote is flat-out wrong.<hr></blockquote>Well from what I have seen they are, maybe they were too low a level.

[Bi]

woah, alchemy still has far more practical uses than sages. you can still make your own stuff; and other peoples; you are still going to have the best buffs for ink etc. You just no longer have the monopoly you had. Which is a good thing, as by-and-large the existing alchemists are responsible for their own downfall by gouging prices; and SOE responded by taking away the items which you were gouging for.2-3s for stroma worts on RE..As for carpenters: I truly am sorry, I think carps really do luck out in many aspects of the game; however you do get boxes; which are a great source of income, I do agree that carpenters skills need looking into; not convinced about the alch's tho. Maybe put fuel on the non-archetype line up by 1, to money sink a little more, and give alchs a defined (but not overpriced) market.

[Odissi]

<blockquote><hr>bieb wrote:woah, alchemy still has far more practical uses than sages. you can still make your own stuff; and other peoples; you are still going to have the best buffs for ink etc. You just no longer have the monopoly you had. Which is a good thing, as by-and-large the existing alchemists are responsible for their own downfall by gouging prices; and SOE responded by taking away the items which you were gouging for.2-3s for stroma worts on RE.<hr></blockquote>2-3s for Stroma Chemicals is absolutely unacceptable. But, making these chemicals absolutely impossible to sell is not the way to fix it.<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>Yesterday on Lucan I put my tailors left-over stroma WORTS  for 82cp each on the broker and they all sold within 30 minutes. I made them myself and a stack did cost me  180 cp so 7 stacks netted a profit of about 1 gold.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Given that others sell the stuff they craft with my worts for 10+ silver I think its a fair price and even 2 silver wouldnt be greedy imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Myself I buy buckles for my tier2 backpacks for up to 5 silver because I sell bthe BBs for about 20 silver and making them myself with double fuel is also expensive (and a pain like everything at the forge)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So regarding my personal experience the economy works for <FONT color=#99ff00>real crafters </FONT>but not for <FONT color=#99ff00>moneymakers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#99ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>And theres nothing wrong with that<FONT color=#99ff00> :smileyhappy:</FONT></DIV>

[Amise]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bieb wrote:<BR>woah, alchemy still has far more practical uses than sages. you can still make your own stuff; and other peoples; you are still going to have the best buffs for ink etc. You just no longer have the monopoly you had. Which is a good thing, as by-and-large the existing alchemists are responsible for their own downfall by gouging prices; and SOE responded by taking away the items which you were gouging for.<BR>2-3s for stroma worts on RE..<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, with both apothecary and chemistry maxxed for my level (40), I make pristine WROTs and inks much more easily using the apothecary skill than I do using chemistry.   It has been that way since I started looking at apothecary on the day the patch went live (at approx. level 35 in alchemy).    Alchemists have no advantage whatsoever over anyone else in making inks or WROTs and given the current utility of the other items alchemists make, this is not a good situation.<BR> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>03-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:32 AM</span>

[Bleusong]

trying to raise apocrathy or any of the new skills at t5 is rough..fuel costs for 4 stacks of fuel is 10gp..pretty nutty..1g 84silver is it?...primary for carpentry kinda frustrates many carpenters since armorers did get to use their primary skill metal shaping to make their primary..why can't carpenters use sculpting(shaping) buffs to make their own primaries?..10 gp-2 fuel for lumber then 2 more for planning- for stack of primary minus the cost to bring these skills up is pretty horrible, mostly because soe already did make a change for another artisan class-this was even before new skills or fuels- and seems unwilling to make same exception for carpenters..seems like a double standard assuming armor is much more important than enviroment which a player chooses to immerse in.far as alchemists..i do feel pretty bad..with merchant cost drop and writ no longer as real viable source of income they were already forced to sell to players..but soe in a blind rush nerfed even this<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> should've given least a month to see how it pans out...i think what really needs to be done is..not just acknowledgement that is never followed up but..soe releasing it vision it has for EQ2 and what roles they expect artisans to play in it..

[Amise]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>trying to raise apocrathy or any of the new skills at t5 is rough..fuel costs for 4 stacks of fuel is 10gp..pretty nutty..1g 84silver is it?...<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You don't need to use T5 items to raise the skills.   As long as you are not using grey buffs you can skillup quickly and easily on T1 items.  You must make green or higher items to gain experience but you do not need to if you are just raising your skills.  It is much cheaper and faster to do it using low level ingrediants.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:10 AM</span>

[RoseWhi]

<DIV>Oops, didn't read your post before responding. Disregard this :smileyindifferent:</DIV><p>Message Edited by RoseWhite on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:04 AM</span>

[WarklaW]

<P>Unfortunately, the interdependancy system always bred greed.  It was too expensive to do tradeskill tasks because the cost outweighed the gain.  I for one stopped trying to do the tasks and made my own alchemist.  </P> <P>The new system allows for interim products to be made by everyone.  You still can't make a final product unless it is your profession.  WORTs are not final products.  Allowing you to make pristine armor is not fair because these are final products.  I'm not an outfitter, but I am glad to see that profession can now make money.</P> <P>I do, however, agree that final products like potions and poisons should be fixed.  I would also suggest more final products be given to alchemists.</P> <P>Here is MY fix.  Allow us to make enchantment potions that would permanently give a special ability to a piece of armor or weapon.  This is NOT be required to finish an item, but it would make the item so much more worth its weight in gold.  We could make potions for every attribute and the amount added to the attribute would depend on the quality.  It would also make items unique.  </P> <P>Of course this could get out of hand so maybe only allow one or two enchantments per item.</P> <P>That's interdependancy that is not forced, but desired by other professions.  It should always be about choice.</P>

[Valhu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>trying to raise apocrathy or any of the new skills at t5 is rough..fuel costs for 4 stacks of fuel is 10gp..pretty nutty..1g 84silver is it?...<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually until they fix the bug, you can be using T1 fuel.... I was not even trying to do this the other day, but my T3 fuel ran out without me noticing... eventually I noticed it had just started consuming my T1 fuel instead...... I was not even trying to exploit, I just keep all my fuels and such in one bag for convience.... the game exploited itself!  </P> <P>That is messed up... and many people use this on purpose, and what incentive do they not to other than knowing they should not?  It helps them actually not loose money.</P> <P>So really the fuel cost advantage for using a "main" (alchemy) skill rather than a "side" (apothecary) skill is only 4cp for anyone doing that.<BR></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*EDIT*  I am not condoning exploting bugs... and I have read about this one many times here already.... so I'm not trying to spread info about it, but rather point out how it further weakens an alchmists market.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Valhuru on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:01 PM</span>

[MagicWand]

<DIV>The thing that really destroyed crafting/trades for me was the fuel cost as a carpenter.  I spend alot more then I get back for my final products when I sell back to NPC, even though I buy everything fresh from him.  If I try to sell on the open market, it takes me weeks to sell furniture to other players, and even then I don't sell most of my products.  I get lucky if I sell 5 out of 20.  The market for carpenters is just not there, even with strong boxes its just not there.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then then on top of that,  you to spend all that time wasted at your house trying to sell the stuff no one wants in the first place, but that is another gripe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I remember when I would get bored with adventuring I would love to go in to craft and do that for but now, I can't do that because I can't afford it now.  So instead of getting bored with adventuring now I am getting bored with the game itself, which is pretty sad.</DIV>

[Bleusong]

<blockquote><hr>Valhuru wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:trying to raise apocrathy or any of the new skills at t5 is rough..fuel costs for 4 stacks of fuel is 10gp..pretty nutty..1g 84silver is it?... <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually until they fix the bug, you can be using T1 fuel.... I was not even trying to do this the other day, but my T3 fuel ran out without me noticing... eventually I noticed it had just started consuming my T1 fuel instead...... I was not even trying to exploit, I just keep all my fuels and such in one bag for convience.... the game exploited itself! </P> <P>That is messed up... and many people use this on purpose, and what incentive do they not to other than knowing they should not? It helps them actually not loose money.</P> <P>So really the fuel cost advantage for using a "main" (alchemy) skill rather than a "side" (apothecary) skill is only 4cp for anyone doing that.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*EDIT* I am not condoning exploting bugs... and I have read about this one many times here already.... so I'm not trying to spread info about it, but rather point out how it further weakens an alchmists market.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Valhuru on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:01 PM</span><hr></blockquote>bug was fixed while ago<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />it gets fun at t5 magic<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 6 stack of fuel to make 20 items will run ya 15gp=)and furniture you create, folks can just by from merchant for few silver at most<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> for rares..hmm..as it stands..if folks use the rare on armor instead of furniture..they don't have an upgrade for a forseable future<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> only at t5 does it really make sense to make gear out of it..so you are stuck with high costs<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Bleusong on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:52 PM</span>

[Blackdog183]

<P>5 stars for you</P> <P>This upcoming change with enhancements needs to be "alchey only" and able to be made using the new apocrathy methods.</P>

[Odissi]

So Blackguard, you say that no artisan class is being ignored and y'all are looking at tradeskilling as a whole?Well let me just bump this back up for ya.

[Bleusong]

<blockquote><hr>RoseWhite wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>carpentry has been ignored...completely...here are some threads to give folks better understanding about what is wrong with carpentry..<BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a5&message.id=1481&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>consolidated carpentry issues by Didi</A><BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=47041&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>more carpentry issues, and links to other carpentry posts on forum</A><BR><BR>thank you..i have no more energy left to talk about this more..<BR><BR>.../shrug..thank you for your time, everyone.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Adding insult to injury, Blackguard has posted to the first of these two threads, so we <STRONG><EM>know </EM></STRONG>that SOE is aware of the issues.</DIV><hr></blockquote>So is moorgard<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> QUOTE: Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: In the case of provisioners, we didn't remove store-bought food from NPC merchants; we made crafted food better. Similarly, crafted furniture has advantages over furniture bought in the stores.While there is some duplication in appearances between crafted and store-bought furniture, there are hundreds of furniture appearances that are unique to artisans. Some of the coolest furniture simply hasn't been made yet, perhaps because it requires very rare components to do so. High-level furniture made with rare components will provide a status symbol that can definitely earn admiration for the owner.but..umm..what hundreds of furniture items...is he talking about..?..and what RARE has not been made yet?..i think it's all been done..i know i've made every rare except ebon lighting fixtures..and there are pics of em made on artisan websites..so..and i belive before any benefits to force people to buy furniture..as carpenters who went into profession KNOWING WE ARE MAKING FLUFF..we should get unique items<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />