Why buy crafted weapons/armor?

[Beef_Monk]

I have learned that as a pure adventurer, it makes much more sense for me to buy mob dropped/quested items from the broker over player crafted items whenever possible. The sole reason for this is the sell back price to NPC Vendors. On average I have found that dropped/quested loot sells to the NPC vendors for nearly 3 to 4 times as much as player crafted. Thanks to attunement and my inability to resell or pass down my old equipment to lower level friends, my only choice for old armor is to sell it to the NPC vendor. Now, I in no way shape or form want SOE to lower what dropped items sell for as it is currently my ONLY source of income. I am just curious as to if there is a valid reason to buy player crafted items?Makadius Isbadius33 PaladinNajena

[Samnas]

<DIV>No valid reason at all assuming you can find stuff with comparable/better stats on the broker.  </DIV>

[Vecsus_E]

<DIV>The answer is simple:  SOE hates Crafters.  Anyone attempting to dispute this is obviously not a crafter higher than level 30.  Now they've added even more gear to solo and small-group encounters.  Oh goodie, even more competition for player-crafted items.  Not like we aren't already crafting at a loss.  Now there will be even fewer people looking to buy our gear. </DIV>

[Gam]

Well if u have the money to buy player made armour then there is one advantage and that is longevity.IE. In my level range 20-30 the pristine carbonite stuff u buy from players is useable from 20-30 so u dont need to get new armour before then unless u do see something better. The AQ stuff I believe maxes out at 26-28 so while it may have slightly better stats u master it a bit sooner. Also the same goes for the steel armour u get off drops in nektulos and pretty much any weapon drops i've seen, they are better stats but max out sooner than the player made stuff. For me personally I sell stuff I get off quests/drops unless they are uber and use my money for the crafted stuff. Of course things might be a tad different in the 30+ range but I dont think it is :oMarrow Longshot27 Assassin27 AlchemistGrobb

[Blackin_DeMast]

<DIV><---36 Ranger wearing exactly 1 piece of player crafted armor. And that cause I can't find a quest for a better hat.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  It's absolutely nothing against crafters. It's just that drops/quested items are easier to get than making money for crafted armor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note, I'm not a crafter myself, so giving a completely blind and unbiased Adventurer's opinion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Black</DIV>

[Samnas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vecsus_EQ2 wrote:<BR> <DIV>The answer is simple:  SOE hates Crafters.  Anyone attempting to dispute this is obviously not a crafter higher than level 30.  Now they've added even more gear to solo and small-group encounters.  Oh goodie, even more competition for player-crafted items.  Not like we aren't already crafting at a loss.  Now there will be even fewer people looking to buy our gear. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Ya you are right SOE hate all crafters they wish we would just all quit the game and stop paying.  Seriously there are issues and SOE has been putting a lot of effort into getting them fixed, but it is not just so easy to create a good mmorpg economy where crafters are valued(and can make reasonable profits) while at the same time giving adventurers good loot at the same time ( a goal of EQ2)<BR>

[Nuvi]

<DIV>why should a weapon/armor pieces thats takes some mins to make be better then a quested item or a drop that a player spent hours on getting?i understand that many of you are [Removed for Content] that quested and droped stuff are better,but there needs 2 be some balance,and i most players i spec have at least half of thier equip crafted mostly from rare materials but thats to be expected since the common crafted stuff are VERY easy 2 come by time wise and resource wise,so it shouldnt come close to rare drops of mobs,this might [Removed for Content] some ppl off but i crafted items from normal resources shouldnt come close to drops of rare mobs,only crafted items that should be better or equal are crafted items from rare resources.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Vecsus_E]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Samnas wrote:</P> <P>Ya you are right SOE hate all crafters they wish we would just all quit the game and stop paying.  Seriously there are issues and SOE has been putting a lot of effort into getting them fixed, but it is not just so easy to create a good mmorpg economy where crafters are valued(and can make reasonable profits) while at the same time giving adventurers good loot at the same time ( a goal of EQ2)<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Don't misquote me.  Did I even once say that SOE wants crafters to stop paying?  You've committed a Straw Man fallacy (distorting my arguement then attacking the distortion).  SOE wants us to keep giving them their money.  They know full well that very few people would actually leave the game as a result of any changes to the crafting system.  Most crafters are also Adventurers or have an Adventurer alt.  For example, I am a level 48 woodworker and also a level 42 Ranger.  They could remove woodworking and I would still play.  But that does not mean we should roll over and accept the complete botch-job their have done with the crafting side of the game.</P> <P> </P> <P>So next time just stil to comments on what I actually said...not what you think I inferred - because you obviously lack the skills required to infer arguements into my opinions.  <BR><BR></P>

[Bar]

<DIV>Do you have any clue how long it takes a crafter to get to tier 5?  Sure it takes only a few minutes to make a piece of armor or weapon but the length of time it takes to be able to make that weapon or armor piece far offsets the time to make it.</DIV>

[Samnas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nuvian wrote:<BR> <DIV>why should a weapon/armor pieces thats takes some mins to make be better then a quested item or a drop that a player spent hours on getting?i understand that many of you are [Removed for Content] that quested and droped stuff are better,but there needs 2 be some balance,and i most players i spec have at least half of thier equip crafted mostly from rare materials but thats to be expected since the common crafted stuff are VERY easy 2 come by time wise and resource wise,so it shouldnt come close to rare drops of mobs,this might [Removed for Content] some ppl off but i crafted items from normal resources shouldnt come close to drops of rare mobs,only crafted items that should be better or equal are crafted items from rare resources.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>The problem is that there are many items that can be obtained via drops or quests that are much better than crafted and take very little time.  Lot of examples but the "Band of Essence" ring that you can get from a very simple quest in EL is one example.  It is better than T4 crafted rings and really takes a very short amount of time to do the quest (and can be done solo).</P> <P>In addition, excluding the fact that many of these dropped items that are superior to crafted are quite easy to get; they still need to have a market for crafted materials.  Whether it is from upgrading peoples dropped equipment, repairing stuff, making enchantments, etc.  Crafting is supposed to be a viable part of this game and with the current system that is not really the case.  Crafters will lose a lot of money if the only thing they can sell is stuff made from rares.  You are correct there has to be a balance between dropped and crafted items, but the balance is not there yet to make crafting a viable gameplay choice in terms of making money or even through enjoyment of making stuff that people need/want.</P>

[Nuvi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baraz wrote:<BR> <DIV>Do you have any clue how long it takes a crafter to get to tier 5?  Sure it takes only a few minutes to make a piece of armor or weapon but the length of time it takes to be able to make that weapon or armor piece far offsets the time to make it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>i could say the same thing about getting to level 50 and being able to take on mobs that drop better armor then crafted,it goes both ways,the fact is you can make a piece of armor in a few mins,and basicly crafters wants thier armor/weps from normal resources to be better then chest drops of named/rare mobs,that just doesnt make sense to me,sure it takes time to hit level 50 crafters,but it takes a long time to do it as adventurer also.</P> <P> </P>

[Vecsus_E]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nuvian wrote:<BR> <DIV>why should a weapon/armor pieces thats takes some mins to make be better then a quested item or a drop that a player spent hours on getting?i understand that many of you are [Removed for Content] that quested and droped stuff are better,but there needs 2 be some balance,and i most players i spec have at least half of thier equip crafted mostly from rare materials but thats to be expected since the common crafted stuff are VERY easy 2 come by time wise and resource wise,so it shouldnt come close to rare drops of mobs,this might [Removed for Content] some ppl off but i crafted items from normal resources shouldnt come close to drops of rare mobs,only crafted items that should be better or equal are crafted items from rare resources.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>"SOME MINUTES?"  The final combine might only take a few minutes but it takes a lot of sub-combines to get to that point.  I have crafted nearly 12,000 items to reach level 48 as a woodworker.  At level 48 I gained the ability to make a Cedar Baton...a rare 1H weapon with awesome stats.  Do not trivialize the efforts of crafters in such a manner.  You're weapon quest might have taken you a few hours of work (like a 2-hour SBD quest).  But during that 2 hours you gained Adventure EXP, got a few drops you can sell for profit (pure profit, unlike tradeskilling which yeilds zero profit to a merchant) and got your uber-item03 at the end of it.   </P> <P>Not once did anyone say plain crafted items should surpass rare mob drops.  A lot of the dropped items people are wearing is junk loot.  So much of it drops that the lore stuff gets destroyed in zones like CT.</P>

[Bar]

<DIV>Actually I cant think of ONE crafter that wants their normal weapons to be better then drops off a named/quest mob.  What we want is our normal weapons to be better then drops off a green goblin/spider/giant/etc.  The weapons/armor that drop off a regular encounter should not be better then a pristine combine...period.  I have no problem with named/rare/quest(within reason ie the band of essence) weapons/armor being better then my normal weapons.</DIV>

[Bur]

I (and I believe a good deal of players) buy crafted armor when I hit the level range it's for. So a new set at 20, 30, 40 ect. If I see something better drop I switch it out.

[Samnas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vecsus_EQ2 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Samnas wrote:</P> <P>Ya you are right SOE hate all crafters they wish we would just all quit the game and stop paying.  Seriously there are issues and SOE has been putting a lot of effort into getting them fixed, but it is not just so easy to create a good mmorpg economy where crafters are valued(and can make reasonable profits) while at the same time giving adventurers good loot at the same time ( a goal of EQ2)<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Don't misquote me.  Did I even once say that SOE wants crafters to stop paying?  You've committed a Straw Man fallacy (distorting my arguement then attacking the distortion).  SOE wants us to keep giving them their money.  They know full well that very few people would actually leave the game as a result of any changes to the crafting system.  Most crafters are also Adventurers or have an Adventurer alt.  For example, I am a level 48 woodworker and also a level 42 Ranger.  They could remove woodworking and I would still play.  But that does not mean we should roll over and accept the complete botch-job their have done with the crafting side of the game.</P> <P> </P> <P>So next time just stil to comments on what I actually said...not what you think I inferred - because you obviously lack the skills required to infer arguements into my opinions.  <BR><BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Actually I did not distort your statement at all.  I even quoted the full conversations (something you actually did not do).  You clearly said SOE hates all crafters and I expanded on this to say they want us to quit playing and stop paying in an obvious attempt to show how ridiculous your statement was.  Rather than realize that making a game economy is very difficult you have chosen the path of just saying SOE hates me. WAH WAH WAH.  Whining that SOE hates you is silly and unfortunately what many of these posts boil down to.... SOE hates 'x' class, SOE hates crafters, SOE doesnt care this doesnt work, SOE like tedium, etc.  Those are all useless posts that are nothing but whining.</P> <P>As for what I inferred from your post.  Sorry if you think I really believed you think SOE wants everyone to quit...... you seem to lack the ability to understand sarcasm, and to post anything other than whining (based on this thread at least).  </P> <P>I enjoy being critical of SOE as much as the next person, but realize that creating a mmorpg economy that is balanced and fun is not an easy thing so when I am critical I try to be reasonable rather than take the easy way of of the "SOE hates all crafters"</P>

[Vecsus_E]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Burem wrote:<BR>I (and I believe a good deal of players) buy crafted armor when I hit the level range it's for. So a new set at 20, 30, 40 ect. If I see something better drop I switch it out.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> If everyone did that then there would be no problem with the crafting system.  But when I inspect people level 40-43 and see green-con gear I ask the person why they have not upgraded.  They never say "i can't afford it".  They almost always say "I'm waiting for something better to drop".  Meanwhile I see them win lotto after lotto on 1-5g vendor loot.  So now I carry around bows and shields.  When a player with inferior gear wins a few 2g vendor items, I offer to trade them for one of my bows or shields.  It almost shames them into making an upgrade.

[Vecsus_E]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Samnas wrote:<BR><BR> <P>Actually I did not distort your statement at all.  I even quoted the full conversations (something you actually did not do).  You clearly said SOE hates all crafters and I expanded on this to say they want us to quit playing and stop paying in an obvious attempt to show how ridiculous your statement was.  Rather than realize that making a game economy is very difficult you have chosen the path of just saying SOE hates me. WAH WAH WAH.  Whining that SOE hates you is silly and unfortunately what many of these posts boil down to.... SOE hates 'x' class, SOE hates crafters, SOE doesnt care this doesnt work, SOE like tedium, etc.  Those are all useless posts that are nothing but whining.</P> <P>As for what I inferred from your post.  Sorry if you think I really believed you think SOE wants everyone to quit...... you seem to lack the ability to understand sarcasm, and to post anything other than whining (based on this thread at least).  </P> <P>I enjoy being critical of SOE as much as the next person, but realize that creating a mmorpg economy that is balanced and fun is not an easy thing so when I am critical I try to be reasonable rather than take the easy way of of the "SOE hates all crafters"</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Yes, you did distort what I said.  I never once stated what SOE wants us to quit.  In fact, you yourself even confirm you distorted my comment (" I expanded on this to say they want us to quit playing and stop paying in an obvious attempt to show how ridiculous your statement was".)    You took my comment to a conclusion I never myself made.  Hence the Straw Man fallacy (look it up, educate yourself while the server is down.).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I fully understand sarcasm.  Use it in your own arguement if you wish, but to not append it to statements made by me.  If Logic and Rhetoric were taught in high school you would actually comprehend the fallacy inherit in both of your postings.</DIV>

[Samnas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vecsus_EQ2 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Samnas wrote:<BR><BR> <P>Actually I did not distort your statement at all.  I even quoted the full conversations (something you actually did not do).  You clearly said SOE hates all crafters and I expanded on this to say they want us to quit playing and stop paying in an obvious attempt to show how ridiculous your statement was.  Rather than realize that making a game economy is very difficult you have chosen the path of just saying SOE hates me. WAH WAH WAH.  Whining that SOE hates you is silly and unfortunately what many of these posts boil down to.... SOE hates 'x' class, SOE hates crafters, SOE doesnt care this doesnt work, SOE like tedium, etc.  Those are all useless posts that are nothing but whining.</P> <P>As for what I inferred from your post.  Sorry if you think I really believed you think SOE wants everyone to quit...... you seem to lack the ability to understand sarcasm, and to post anything other than whining (based on this thread at least).  </P> <P>I enjoy being critical of SOE as much as the next person, but realize that creating a mmorpg economy that is balanced and fun is not an easy thing so when I am critical I try to be reasonable rather than take the easy way of of the "SOE hates all crafters"</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Yes, you did distort what I said.  I never once stated what SOE wants us to quit.  In fact, you yourself even confirm you distorted my comment (" I expanded on this to say they want us to quit playing and stop paying in an obvious attempt to show how ridiculous your statement was".)    You took my comment to a conclusion I never myself made.  Hence the Straw Man fallacy (look it up, educate yourself while the server is down.).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I fully understand sarcasm.  Use it in your own arguement if you wish, but to not append it to statements made by me.  If Logic and Rhetoric were taught in high school you would actually comprehend the fallacy inherit in both of your postings.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> This will be my last post in response to this as you obviously want to turn this into a personal debate (if you can call your insults a debate) rather than the topic at hand so I will not continue after this.  I clearly quoted EXACTLY what you said when I made my comment below your quote (yes MY comment).  I said you are right about SOE hating crafters then expanded with my sarcasm.  That is not distortion that is me having an opinion on what you said and showing that opinion with sarcasm.  Either way you are still doing nothing but whining and hijacking this thread into a personal insult contest.  From now on lets just insult eachother with PM so everyone does not have to waste their time on it.

[Bhagpuss]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vecsus_EQ2 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Burem wrote:<BR>I (and I believe a good deal of players) buy crafted armor when I hit the level range it's for. So a new set at 20, 30, 40 ect. If I see something better drop I switch it out.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> If everyone did that then there would be no problem with the crafting system.  But when I inspect people level 40-43 and see green-con gear I ask the person why they have not upgraded.  They never say "i can't afford it".  They almost always say "I'm waiting for something better to drop".  Meanwhile I see them win lotto after lotto on 1-5g vendor loot.  So now I carry around bows and shields.  When a player with inferior gear wins a few 2g vendor items, I offer to trade them for one of my bows or shields.  It almost shames them into making an upgrade.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I always equip a drop I got personally over a crafted item I could buy, or which is offered to me. I generally have quite inferior armor, including non-stat generic mob drops and old quest items that have gone green or even grey, even though I have plenty of gold in the vault which I could use to upgrade.</P> <P>Why?</P> <P>Because I value any item I got myself over any item I could buy off the Broker or from a player, regardless of the quality of the item. I can't see that there would be whole lot of point in going adventuring if I was already dressed in gear better than i was getting from the mobs i was killing.</P>

[Arlik]

<DIV>Back to the original poster's comments.  So the only reason you are not buying player crafted equipment is because the resale value after attunement is drastically low?  Are you considering how much you buy a mob dropped item for from the broker?  I am a weaponsmith and I sale T3 carbonite weapons at around 50-75 silver a piece.  While I am in in the basement grinding away trying to get to T5 so I can sale a weapon for over a gold, you are adventuring away, with the CHANCE at getting very nice loot, even better loot than what I can craft.  While your going in for lottos on Master I spells that sale for a few plats here and there, I am churning out truckloads of weapons just to get to T5 weapons to be able to make a weapon that sales for 3gp.  3gp!!  With your one master I spell drop, you could buy my entire inventory of weapons.  So why boycott me?</DIV>

[Samnas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arlik wrote:<BR> <DIV>Back to the original poster's comments.  So the only reason you are not buying player crafted equipment is because the resale value after attunement is drastically low?  Are you considering how much you buy a mob dropped item for from the broker?  I am a weaponsmith and I sale T3 carbonite weapons at around 50-75 silver a piece.  While I am in in the basement grinding away trying to get to T5 so I can sale a weapon for over a gold, you are adventuring away, with the CHANCE at getting very nice loot, even better loot than what I can craft.  While your going in for lottos on Master I spells that sale for a few plats here and there, I am churning out truckloads of weapons just to get to T5 weapons to be able to make a weapon that sales for 3gp.  3gp!!  With your one master I spell drop, you could buy my entire inventory of weapons.  So why boycott me?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I do not think he is boycotting crafters Arlik, but I think he is just making the statement that he can easily get comparable equipment on the broker for comparable prices (the way I read it anyway).  I want the system fixed so that there is a valid reason to have crafters rather than just have people buy from me just to support crafters even though they can get stuff just as good or better from the broker for a comparable price.

[Beef_Monk]

I never called for a boycott of player crafted items. I was merely asking for a reason to buy player crafted items over roughly equal mob dropped items which are available on the broker for nearly the same price. Also, I think you are overstating a bit on how much money an adventurer makes a night. Sure there is the very very rare master 1 drop of which I have only seen twice in my 33 levels (I won neither time), but most of the loot is relatively modest in comparison to how many expenses we adventurers have. With armor upgrades, weapon upgrades, repair fees, very costly spell/skill increases and paying 20s a peice for a decent tier 3 drink, the adventurers need every silver piece we can get. So if that means buying mob dropped items so that I can recoup more money from the NPC vendor, then that's what I will do. It's nothing against crafters, it's just the way the economy and recent changes are forcing me to play.

[Vecsus_E]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhagpuss wrote:<BR><BR> <P>I always equip a drop I got personally over a crafted item I could buy, or which is offered to me. I generally have quite inferior armor, including non-stat generic mob drops and old quest items that have gone green or even grey, even though I have plenty of gold in the vault which I could use to upgrade.</P> <P>Why?</P> <P>Because I value any item I got myself over any item I could buy off the Broker or from a player, regardless of the quality of the item. I can't see that there would be whole lot of point in going adventuring if I was already dressed in gear better than i was getting from the mobs i was killing.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>So what you are saying is that you willing use inferior equipment when better items are easily available?  All for the sake of "pride" at having gotten it yourself?  Let me ask you this:  how did you get the money in your bank?  Was it given to you or did you earn it by killing mobs and selling the loot they dropped?  Since that is pretty much the only way to make money then I will assume this is the case.  That being said, using money you earned to buy better equipment in no way violates your self-sufficiency standards does it?   Or perhaps you use a different system of logic.  If so I would be curious to read it.</DIV>

[Bar]

<DIV>Beef, the bonus with player crafted items is you can use them for 10 levels.  So at 30 you can buy a complete set of armor and weapons and not have to worry about upgrades til 40.  I usually do just that, then I replace the items with better drops or quest items as I progress.  Frankly, on my server crafted weapons at least sell for tons less then dropped and are usually much more cost effective.  The funny thing is people when looking on the broker usually assume more expensive=better...which is often not the case.</DIV>

[TheRealMo]

<blockquote><hr>Burem wrote:I (and I believe a good deal of players) buy crafted armor when I hit the level range it's for. So a new set at 20, 30, 40 ect. If I see something better drop I switch it out.<hr></blockquote>Yep. It's nice to be able to buy a set of armor that will last you 10+ levels. I will swap out the crafted pieces as I come across something better but find that the pristine crafted gear does the job just fine.

[Z]

<blockquote><hr>Beef_Monkey wrote:I have learned that as a pure adventurer, it makes much more sense for me to buy mob dropped/quested items from the broker over player crafted items whenever possible. The sole reason for this is the sell back price to NPC Vendors. On average I have found that dropped/quested loot sells to the NPC vendors for nearly 3 to 4 times as much as player crafted. Thanks to attunement and my inability to resell or pass down my old equipment to lower level friends, my only choice for old armor is to sell it to the NPC vendor. Now, I in no way shape or form want SOE to lower what dropped items sell for as it is currently my ONLY source of income. I am just curious as to if there is a valid reason to buy player crafted items?Makadius Isbadius33 PaladinNajena<hr></blockquote>I agree 100% Player crafted armor isint all that and it couldn't hurt to make it sell to a merchant for more, since they added the sellback nerf I see no reason in even grinding out the exp for any tradeskill... If I cant make a few silver on something whats the point? not all people have all day to sit in their houses and sell, I play until late at night and olny get a coulple hrs of selling in before the servers usually come down, and olny to the very few people who are online at the time. It needs to be easier to make player crafted items or it will never be worth grinding out.

[Samnas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zun wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Beef_Monkey wrote:<BR>I have learned that as a pure adventurer, it makes much more sense for me to buy mob dropped/quested items from the broker over player crafted items whenever possible. The sole reason for this is the sell back price to NPC Vendors. On average I have found that dropped/quested loot sells to the NPC vendors for nearly 3 to 4 times as much as player crafted. Thanks to attunement and my inability to resell or pass down my old equipment to lower level friends, my only choice for old armor is to sell it to the NPC vendor. Now, I in no way shape or form want SOE to lower what dropped items sell for as it is currently my ONLY source of income. I am just curious as to if there is a valid reason to buy player crafted items?<BR><BR>Makadius Isbadius<BR>33 Paladin<BR>Najena<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>I agree 100% Player crafted armor isint all that and it couldn't hurt to make it sell to a merchant for more, since they added the sellback nerf I see no reason in even grinding out the exp for any tradeskill... If I cant make a few silver on something whats the point? not all people have all day to sit in their houses and sell, I play until late at night and olny get a coulple hrs of selling in before the servers usually come down, and olny to the very few people who are online at the time. It needs to be easier to make player crafted items or it will never be worth grinding out.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Making the player crafter armor sell for more to merchants would be a partial rollback of the "sellback nerf" thus making armorer at least partially immune to the nerf.  That is why player made stuff sells back for less money.  If they raise the sellback prices to be in line with dropped stuff of similar quality then bot1, bot2, and bot3 will be stacked up at the forge within a week.</DIV>

[The_Witchfind]

<DIV>I use crafted armour because it's the only stuff I can find where I'll have a matching set.  I hate the jumbled-up armour look you get from having blue greaves, silver sleeves, red breastplate and orange gauntlets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe there should be a "set bonus" for equipping matching items.  After all, they would be designed to work together, and it might provide an incentive to use crafted stuff.</DIV>

[Screamin' 1]

<blockquote><hr>Nuvian wrote:<DIV>why should a weapon/armor pieces thats takes some mins to make be better then a quested item or a drop that a player spent hours on getting?i understand that many of you are [Removed for Content] that quested and droped stuff are better,but there needs 2 be some balance,and i most players i spec have at least half of thier equip crafted mostly from rare materials but thats to be expected since the common crafted stuff are VERY easy 2 come by time wise and resource wise,so it shouldnt come close to rare drops of mobs,this might [Removed for Content] some ppl off but i crafted items from normal resources shouldnt come close to drops of rare mobs,only crafted items that should be better or equal are crafted items from rare resources.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Some mins to make? By your logic, it takes 1-3 minutes to kill a mob and get a drop. So why should that item be any good either?To make a crafted item takes more than "mins". It takes an investment of days of time to get to theappropriate level, many books need to be purchased for recipes, components need to be harvestedor purchased, t4 armor takes forever to grind up to the appropriate level. And, no one wants tobuy items from crafters, since the dropped stuff is better. We are lucky if we can break evenin most cases now. Except for Provisioners, who do not have any food/drink dropping out there thatis better than the food/drink they make (and good for them, it should be that way).Some armors take 14 combines to make. 1 temper combine, 1 wash combine, 1 oil combine, 1 resin combine,1 boiled leather combine, 1 harness combine, 1 thread combine, 1 paper combine, 1 pattern combine,2 bar combines, 1 plate combine (pristine) and 1 sheet combine, plus the final combine.(Another problem is that some folks do not really understand the value of some of these crafted items. Example, Carbonite Vanguard Gussets are acually better than the AQ bracers once you get into the mid-20's +. And, they give +2 more Strength. )Perhaps you should go do some tradeskilling before you form your next opinion about this situation....<p>Message Edited by Screamin' 103 on <span class=date_text>03-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:31 PM</span>

[Screamin' 1]

<blockquote><hr>Samnas wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Vecsus_EQ2 wrote:<BR><DIV>The answer is simple: SOE hates Crafters. Anyone attempting to dispute this is obviously not a crafter higher than level 30. Now they've added even more gear to solo and small-group encounters. Oh goodie, even more competition for player-crafted items. Not like we aren't already crafting at a loss. Now there will be even fewer people looking to buy our gear. </DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ya you are right SOE hate all crafters they wish we would just all quit the game and stop paying. Seriously there are issues and SOE has been putting a lot of effort into getting them fixed, but it is not just so easy to create a good mmorpg economy where crafters are valued(and can make reasonable profits) while at the same time giving adventurers good loot at the same time ( a goal of EQ2)<BR><hr></blockquote>True, I doubt they HATE crafters, but they are quite indifferent to our problems.And, to make it worse, they rub it in. The furniture salesperson in Nettleville now calls out as yourun by, encouraging folks to buy his wares to dress up their room. Considering the state carpenters arein, this is just makes it worse, if only from an add salt to the wound point of view.

[Screamin' 1]

<blockquote><hr>The_Witchfinder wrote:<DIV>I use crafted armour because it's the only stuff I can find where I'll have a matching set. I hate the jumbled-up armour look you get from having blue greaves, silver sleeves, red breastplate and orange gauntlets.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Maybe there should be a "set bonus" for equipping matching items. After all, they would be designed to work together, and it might provide an incentive to use crafted stuff.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Hey, awesome idea. I love it.

[Screamin' 1]

<blockquote><hr>Samnas wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Zun wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Beef_Monkey wrote:<BR>I have learned that as a pure adventurer, it makes much more sense for me to buy mob dropped/quested items from the broker over player crafted items whenever possible. The sole reason for this is the sell back price to NPC Vendors. On average I have found that dropped/quested loot sells to the NPC vendors for nearly 3 to 4 times as much as player crafted. Thanks to attunement and my inability to resell or pass down my old equipment to lower level friends, my only choice for old armor is to sell it to the NPC vendor. Now, I in no way shape or form want SOE to lower what dropped items sell for as it is currently my ONLY source of income. I am just curious as to if there is a valid reason to buy player crafted items?<BR><BR>Makadius Isbadius<BR>33 Paladin<BR>Najena<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>I agree 100% Player crafted armor isint all that and it couldn't hurt to make it sell to a merchant for more, since they added the sellback nerf I see no reason in even grinding out the exp for any tradeskill... If I cant make a few silver on something whats the point? not all people have all day to sit in their houses and sell, I play until late at night and olny get a coulple hrs of selling in before the servers usually come down, and olny to the very few people who are online at the time. It needs to be easier to make player crafted items or it will never be worth grinding out.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>Making the player crafter armor sell for more to merchants would be a partial rollback of the "sellback nerf" thus making armorer at least partially immune to the nerf. That is why player made stuff sells back for less money. If they raise the sellback prices to be in line with dropped stuff of similar quality then bot1, bot2, and bot3 will be stacked up at the forge within a week.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Yeah, ultimately it is the 'bots that caused this whole problem. It seems SOE just does not know how to fix it without really limiting the legit crafters.I hope they are working on something, in the mean time, I wish they would throw is some kind of bone ....

[Samnas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Screamin' 103 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Samnas wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vecsus_EQ2 wrote:<BR> <DIV>The answer is simple: SOE hates Crafters. Anyone attempting to dispute this is obviously not a crafter higher than level 30. Now they've added even more gear to solo and small-group encounters. Oh goodie, even more competition for player-crafted items. Not like we aren't already crafting at a loss. Now there will be even fewer people looking to buy our gear. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Ya you are right SOE hate all crafters they wish we would just all quit the game and stop paying. Seriously there are issues and SOE has been putting a lot of effort into getting them fixed, but it is not just so easy to create a good mmorpg economy where crafters are valued(and can make reasonable profits) while at the same time giving adventurers good loot at the same time ( a goal of EQ2)<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>True, I doubt they HATE crafters, but they are quite indifferent to our problems.<BR><BR>And, to make it worse, they rub it in. The furniture salesperson in Nettleville now calls out as you<BR>run by, encouraging folks to buy his wares to dress up their room. Considering the state carpenters are<BR>in, this is just makes it worse, if only from an add salt to the wound point of view.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Ya sometimes it does get rubbed in a bit I admit.  As for furniture salepeople I see absolutely no need for them.  I personally think you should not be able to buy anything(that is also craftable; ie weapons, armor, furniture, etc)  from an NPC unless it is at a ridiculously inflated price.  I do not think they are indifferent though they have made some posts from devs or others at SOE about ways they are planning to make crafters useful I think it is just taking time.  Unfortunately to deal with some of the big problems/exploits they had to make drastic changes that made a bad system worse.  Maybe I am just overly optimistic I just genuinly think SOE cares about what we think and I get frustrated with posts that they hate us or "they are stupid all they have to do is .....".  The solution is not a simple one otherwise it would be done.

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> The_Witchfinder wrote:<BR> <DIV>I use crafted armour because it's the only stuff I can find where I'll have a matching set.  I hate the jumbled-up armour look you get from having blue greaves, silver sleeves, red breastplate and orange gauntlets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe there should be a "set bonus" for equipping matching items.  After all, they would be designed to work together, and it might provide an incentive to use crafted stuff.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I like the idea about the set bonus although crafting armor myself. Since pristine crafted stuff is easily to obtain on a decent populated server and usually about as good as the quested/dropped stuff* a bonus for a complete set would make questing more interesting and give some meaning to hunting a certain kind of mob.</P> <P>Overall it would give *pure* adventure style players some of the independence of  crafters back they claim to miss.  Also these *collection* armor pieces would see a lot of demand at the brokers and better prices therefore (just look at the ridiculous prices people pay somtimes for a "?") which would bring some more coin into the pockets of characters that live on loot alone.</P> <P>* I compared pristinge forged carbonite plate to the 20ish lvl armor quest items and stuff like the seven-layerd-breastplate at my current level (22)</P>

[Stili]

<DIV>Here is the answer to your question.</DIV> <DIV>Master Loot/Some quests is better then Rare crafted is better then Dropped Rare which is better then Crafted then there is the no quest stuff. </DIV> <DIV>Ok now here is the kicker</DIV> <DIV>Master loot have to be 5 levels to level req</DIV> <DIV>Rare 10 levels</DIV> <DIV>Rare Dropped 5 levels</DIV> <DIV>Crafted 10 levels</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So a Level 22 Tank say. He can wear a Pristine crafted steel helm or a Pristine crafted carbonite helm. But cant wear a Dropped steel helm till like 26</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is one reason to use crafted armor. you get 10 levels from it. And you only get 4-6 from dropped stuff......</DIV>