With mentoring get rid of vitality!

[CyonideWolfp]

<DIV>Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vitality was put in so that people who are more casual can remain closer to friends in level through vitality.  So hardcore gamer A grinds out exp and stops getting bonus at a certain point so his Good Friend B can come on a few hours a day with vitality, and not keep the same rate, but keep it closer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now we're giving them another chance to group with mentoring, you come on the same time, Hardcore Gamer A can just drop his level to be that of the friend.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why not then just remove vitality if we can group together through mentoring.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Normally I don't complain about this stuff, I enjoy the game, the mechanics I adapt to.  But since like lvl 35 the exp crawls so bad, even fighting Nightbloods in RV and things like that is still a real grind, now we have 2 methods of rewarding people who play far less often.  It's just rough spending hours dropping difficult mobs (I'm 40 now btw) to see a smidge of blue creep forward because I happened to have a weekend off and played straight through.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my opinion it should be one or the other.  We can group by mentoring or we can group by the casual gamer getting more bonuses and keeping in the same level.  I mean what's next, the casual gamer gets a free level every 2 weeks so he can keep up with his friends?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Okay, I'm done now, no more [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cyonide</DIV><p>Message Edited by CyonideWolfpaw on <span class=date_text>03-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:17 AM</span>

[Sacha]

<DIV>I have to disagree. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason? Last night I needed to kill Grolven Chiptooth. He conned Blue ^^ to me.  As is the nature of test centre, a group of players came to assist. To keep him at even con I was mentored by the two higher players. I also had vitality at 89%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I received HALF of one percent for the kill. With TWO mentors AND vitality I received half a percent for a blue ^^ named mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(To put this into perspective I receive ONE percent for killing green ^^ mobs in BB.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd agree that the system needs tweaking, but not in the direction you are suggesting.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/shrug</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Sacha on <SPAN class=date_text>03-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:19 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Sacha on <span class=date_text>03-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:21 AM</span>

[CyonideWolfp]

<DIV>Sacha,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I definately see your point.  But I think you misunderstood the arguement.  Taking away their ability to level quickly through exp grinding did not, because of mentoring, prohibit them from helping you.  So whether they were 40 or 50, you were still able to group on your mob because of mentoring.  So in that instance, because their level is irrelevant due to mentoring (they became the same level as you) why inhibit their ability to see the end game, by making them grind longer w/out vitality?  They still helped you.  You can now go get exp still.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's more my issue.  Because they can help you here, and the levels all even out, why slow their progress in seeing the end game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cyonide</DIV>

[Eliar]

<DIV>I really do not see it as an advantage myself.  Seems like people forget that everyone gets vitality every hour on the hour ...  whether you use it as you get it or come back after a couple of days of not playing if really makes no diffference.  Since you get to 100% in a week those that do not play for longer than that are really losing in the end. :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[ReubinLe]

<DIV>Vitality alone is not enough to keep casual gamers with hardcore gamers(demonstrated as how it currently is on live). Mentoring fixes the issue of hardcore players grouping with casual gamers, but it does not help the fact that if the higher levels were to mentor the casual player everytime they get on that they will be in the same area for quite a while due to the amount of playtime the casual gamer gets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your post is very confusing...it sounds like you are angry that exp takes forever, and because mentoring is going in you want vitality to be taken out, which means that exp will still go slow for the casual gamer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think of it like this: Vitality effects EVERYONE...mentoring will effect people who choose to do it. Vitality is a bonus, while mentoring is more of a 'relaxed ruleset'. My mother and father play this game, but my father has maybe 25% of the amount of playtime my mother has...mentoring will allow her to group with him, and vitality will make it so that he goes through the levels faster during the short amount of time he is able to play everyday.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From the sound of it, it sounds like you are a casual gamer on weekdays, and hardcore gamer on the weekends. For 5 days you're banking vitality, probably 80% of vitality, which is basically a free 35% experience. Not sure why you'd want that taken away. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[CyonideWolfp]

<DIV>I should definately clarify then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, this does reference Live, so if the reference doesn't apply here please correct me, I hate not knowing how this works.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But take Paludal for instance,  In Live PC had huge bonuses added into (while I played), so you got a full group exp bonus, dungeon exp bonus, Luclin exp bonus, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It appears to me this carried over to EQ2.  Not as drastically, but in some degree, so mobs like crows in Antonica give better exp than the same level undead and so forth.  Now I don't have a quote to support this, but rather 3 characters who have gone through this zone, and it definately appears this way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I had my choice if lvl 15 explorer goes out and kills a crow that is lvl 16 and a highwayman that is lvl 16 he should get the exact same exp, risk versus reward.  Just because he plays more doesn't mean there was any less risk in killing that mob.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I complete understand WHY there is vitality, but I guess I just don't agree with the concept.  I have had friends who started playing in November with me that I have since passed by 20 levels that I can't group with, but we still talk and what not, and we don't hold it against each other because of our play styles.   I don't know, I guess it's more or less a bit frustrating to see friends who do play once a week when I play....much more, staying within levels of me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But that's my opinion, whether you agree or not, I can definately see both sides.  I like the idea of mentoring, giving friends a chance to group, but I do not agree with vitality, impeding my progress to help others keep up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cyonide </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(PS I understand that they are not intending to punish hardcore gamers, we still do get exp when we fight, but I don't like personally having to kill hundreds more mobs in my time and a friend can come on whenever and fight a lot less and see the same reward)</DIV>

[Ute]

<blockquote><hr>CyonideWolfpaw wrote:<DIV>I should definately clarify then.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Now, this does reference Live, so if the reference doesn't apply here please correct me, I hate not knowing how this works.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>But take Paludal for instance, In Live PC had huge bonuses added into (while I played), so you got a full group exp bonus, dungeon exp bonus, Luclin exp bonus, etc.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>It appears to me this carried over to EQ2. Not as drastically, but in some degree, so mobs like crows in Antonica give better exp than the same level undead and so forth. Now I don't have a quote to support this, but rather 3 characters who have gone through this zone, and it definately appears this way.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>If I had my choice if lvl 15 explorer goes out and kills a crow that is lvl 16 and a highwayman that is lvl 16 he should get the exact same exp, risk versus reward. Just because he plays more doesn't mean there was any less risk in killing that mob. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Now, I complete understand WHY there is vitality, but I guess I just don't agree with the concept. I have had friends who started playing in November with me that I have since passed by 20 levels that I can't group with, but we still talk and what not, and we don't hold it against each other because of our play styles. I don't know, I guess it's more or less a bit frustrating to see friends who do play once a week when I play....much more, staying within levels of me.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>But that's my opinion, whether you agree or not, I can definately see both sides. I like the idea of mentoring, giving friends a chance to group, but I do not agree with vitality, impeding my progress to help others keep up.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Cyonide </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>(PS I understand that they are not intending to punish hardcore gamers, we still do get exp when we fight, but I don't like personally having to kill hundreds more mobs in my time and a friend can come on whenever and fight a lot less and see the same reward)</DIV><hr></blockquote>The thing is, everyone gains the exact same amount of vitality, logged in or not, every hour on the hour. Vitality is there to allow casual gamers to level at a decent rate when they do play, but, a hardcore gamer will still level faster because they are not only gaining the same vitality every day, but also gaining xp without vitality.Now, if you are arguing that it makes gaining xp feel "slow" for hardcore games while feel faster for casual gamers and that you don't like how it makes you feel, then sure, that is a valid opinion and arguement <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But, if you are saying that vitality steals xp from hardcore gamers, that just isn't true. Everyone is getting the same amount of vitality bonus per day. The difference between a hardcore and casual player is the casual gamer never plays enough to use up all their vitality, so it makes the experience more smooth feeling for them, amking the game more enjoyable. The hardcore gamer just spends all their vitality the instant they get it, then gets even more xp on top of that(50 to 100% more). It might feel slower to them because they never have vitality for very long, but they are still leveling over double as fast as a casual gamer.Getting rid of vitality because there is now mentoring is like comparing apples to oranges <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Vitality helps everyone. Mentoring is designed to let friends and guildmates help and play with each other regardless of level.<p>Message Edited by Utess on <span class=date_text>03-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:12 PM</span>

[ReubinLe]

<DIV>Utess explained it a lot better than I did.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a character's complete life, a casual gamer will benefit more from Vitality than a hardcore gamer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A casual gamer will most likely kill less total mobs and have less /played time once they hit level 50 than a hardcore gamer because of the way vitality works, but the hardcore gamer will probably hit level 50 months before the casual gamer. At lvl 40+, one hour yields just under 1% of vitality exp...a quick 'bonus' that runs out very quickly for a hardcore player that they may not even notice that it ever came up.</DIV>

[Bhagpuss]

<DIV>This Casual/Hardcore debate has been done to death in every MMO to date. One of the biggest problems that I see in discussions of this kind is that there isn't any clear definition of what the terms Casual and Hardcore actualy mean.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I play EQ2 every day. I work full time, but I log on when I get home in the evening and play for 4-5 hours each weekday, and I play around 10-12 hours each day Saturday and Sunday. That's around 40 - 50 hours a week, every week. This week I am off work and will probably play more like 70 hours. I have played EQ2 like that since Beta in September 2004.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the face of it, that should make me a hardcore player. However, I consider myself to be a Casual player. I have a 30th Templar and a 30th Fury, and the Templar is also a 41st Provisioner. I have done no heritage quests at all and have never raided. I have done less than 150 quests on each of my highest characters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And on the topic of this thread, I have <EM>never </EM>adventured or tradeskilled without receiving the Vitality bonus. Now that I can see the Vitality bar, I can see that it almost never drops below 50% on any of my characters. Nearly all of them are over 90% nearly all of the time. On the one occasion I did actually exhaust vitality (I ran tradeskill vitality to zero on the double tradeskill xp weekend), as soon as it hit zero I swapped to another character. I didn't start tradeskilling again on the first character until his Vitality had regenerated back to 100%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it was up to me, I would put an xp slider into the game on the client side so that peopel could simply adjust the speed they levelled to suit their playstyle. It's a fact that there are people on these boards starting threads to complain that xp is much too fast and they want to be able to switch off all xp including quests, while other people are complaining that it is unbearably slow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really don't see it would make a blind bit of difference to my gameplay if I got 200xp points for killing a scarecrow and Joe Paladin duoing with me got 2000xp points. If he wants to get from level 1 to level 50 in a day by killing one mob per level, it's no skin off my nose. It might be a problem for SOE, but it's not a problem for me as a playerm, because I really don't have any feelings whatsoever about how other people choose to use the EQ2 environment, except and unless what they do directly harms what I want to do, which in my experience it almost never does.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ael]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CyonideWolfpaw wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I complete understand WHY there is vitality, but I guess I just don't agree with the concept.  I have had friends who started playing in November with me that I have since passed by 20 levels that I can't group with, but we still talk and what not, and we don't hold it against each other because of our play styles.   I don't know, I guess it's more or less a bit frustrating to see friends who do play once a week when I play....much more, staying within levels of me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> I selectively quoted because I think the reason you see the level difference staying the same is that the leveling slows as you go up. Even though you are gaining experience a lot faster it takes a lot more to gain levels as you go up. So a 20 level difference between 10-30 isn't as big a difference as between 30-50. It will definately take a lot longer to level from 30-50 than it does from 10-30. So even if your level difference is staying the same the amount of time betwen your levels is going up a lot. <BR> <p>Message Edited by Aelwr on <span class=date_text>03-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:39 AM</span>