Assassin Damage

[Darqz]

<DIV>Anyone notice that the damage after the last patch for your assassin on th <STRONG>test</STRONG> server has gotten worse?  I have not changed my style or anything but my DPS has dropped dramatically and my overall damage is lower.  </DIV>

[Mollix]

And to think at one time the Devs said that the Assassin's when using poison would have the highest DPS in game.Would have been nice if that had remained true, but clearly the DPS world now belongs to the Wizzies and Warlocks. This is a shame too since Assassin's do not have buffs etc that Wizards and Warlocks have... would have been nice to be best at something. Glad to hear we can only expect it to get worse.

[Fedayki]

uuummm...rangers get it worse.

[Renynz]

At least in regards to wizzies and warlocks, as wizards do not get any hate reducing tools, they have fewer hit points, a fraction of scout AC, and they are 100% dependent on having power to inflict any sort of damage at all (at least assassins can keep thwacking the target when their power bottoms out), this is as it should be. Also, wizard DPS depends vastly on being able to stack DOT debuffs, most of which are expensive, and none of which will stack on raids or if multiple wizards are in the group. A mob can be half dead by the time we even get enough debuffs on it to make it worth nuking. Half the time we just shrug and accept half DPS because by the time we can debuff it, the mob would be dead.Also, wizards cannot nuke red mobs right now, period. You get over 90% resists. I've seen assassins go at the same mob at the same level; they rip it up. So before you think assassins suck so bad, create a wizzie alt. You'll find out its not all peaches and cream like you think it is.

[Dub]

<DIV>Im a ranger and miss 98% of the time on red mobs. Whats your point?</DIV>

[CloakV]

<blockquote><hr>Dubel wrote:<DIV>Im a ranger and miss 98% of the time on red mobs. Whats your point?</DIV><hr></blockquote>Agreed, I can take red mobs with my warlock, but die horribly to anything above a blue with my ranger. :/Also it is correct that you miss far more when fighting a higher con mob, just the same as you get more spell resists.Warlock been soloing EL from 26th level.Warden been soloing EL from 27th level.Ranger dying to skelletons in TS at 27th level.Paladin slaughtering the same skelletons that kill my ranger since 23rd level.Now thats a good job in balancing SONY.BTW my ranger was my main and as such I know how to play him and also have all yellow/orange pristine equipement, use poisons and have pretty much every skill at adept 1.

[Renynz]

My point is about assassins. I do not know about rangers. All I know is that on a nine-level difference, with good melee group buffs (monk and/or bard), Assassins can chew through the mob with a sizeable drop (50% - 75%) in damage, but they CAN hit it. I've witnessed it, many times, always to my chagrin. A wizard, against the same mob, will experience over 95% resists.My point is also in response to the statement "but clearly the DPS world now belongs to the Wizzies and Warlocks".It is true: In most experience groups, wizards will blow the doors off assassins. But the problem is that wizards have a certain sweet spot where they can obtain this maximum damage; if the fight is to short, or too long, their DPS begins to drop radically.To elaborate, as I posted earlier, wizards require debuffs to do maximum damage. At 37 my wizard has to cast two spells: Freezing Wind, 181 power, 36 seconds, and Icy Coil, 76 power, 24 seconds. A grand total of 257 power, roughly 19% of my wizard's power pool, and five seconds of casting time. If the fight is going to last longer than 10 to 15 seconds there is even no need to waste mana (A LOT OF MANA) on these spells. Now come the nukes. To inflict maximum damage, I can chain Ball of Flames (144 power, 2 second cast, 6 second recast, 454-681 damage), Westfend's Ice spear (144 power, 3 second cast time, 12 second recast, 458-687 damage), and Icy Spike (44 power, 2 second cast time, 2 second recast, 200-271 damage). The order I generally use is Ball of Flames, Ball of Fire, Ice Spike, Ball of Flames, Ice Spike, Ice Spike, Ball of Flames. Two rounds of that, with a reapplication of debuffs inbetween, and I am OOP.Assuming debuffs are in, most nukes will hit for 75% of the above damage on average. If the debuffs are not in, it can be cut down by as much as 50%. So for fights in the 20 to 60 second range, Wizards are a massive damage machine. But this is true to archetype: Wizards in Everquest have always been about doing massive damage; they just don't have the endurance of other classes.In long fights, chain pulling, or any other endurance run, Assassins are much more capable of inflicting damage. Poison. High damage flanking and stealth attacks. Plus continuous, power-free damage in the form of melee weapons. That adds up, fast. Wizards end up OOP and/or mana pumping the healers so the group can stay alive.In short fights, it is mostly a matter of whether or not wizards can use AE attacks. If they can, they will beat the assassin, but summoners and furies have better AE attacks in my opinion than wizards, and I get outdamaged on AE all the time. And there are many times (i.e. you have an enchanter in the group that wants things mezzed) where AE is not an option.As far as warlocks go, I'm not really gonna say much. I haven't played one. I haven't been in a group with many. Their resist base is entirely different, and most importantly they have spells that not only infilct damage, it siphons some of that damage back as power. So they probably have a lot more staying power. You may have an honest gripe there against warlocks. I do not know.But trust me. Assassins can easily outdamage wizards. It is all a matter of circumstances.

[Darqz]

<DIV>LOL, I started this thread not to complain about damage as much as to find out if other people were seeing resists across the board, be it mage, fighter, cleric, or scout.  It seemed for a while that when I hit something for say 20pts I was now doing 10 to 15pts.  This was not to start a flame war about which class does the most damage or who has the biggest end of the nerf stick.  When one subclass/class feels something it is usually indicative that almost everyone across the board feels it.  This may be intentional or a bug that was placed ont the TEST server not the main servers.  I log on for a little while before playing the main servers and see what the game is like or is going to be like.  Its kind of like being in a trailer for a good movie.  You just want to see it to let you know if the movie is going to be good or not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do have to agree with some of what Renynzea says though.  Melee classes do have a free power-free damage in the form of melee weapons (mage classes do too but not as much).  The one thing that Renynzea fails to understand and I think that this may be from not experiencing is that poisons have probably the highest resist rate in the game.  Even using yellow or even conning poisons the poison may only proc once or twice on average in a fight.  Not only that but if you play a ranger you not only have to buy NEW arrows (thereby defeating the purpose of power-free damage at higher levels) and Poisons which adds up quickly even after SOE gave us the new shot boost on poisons.  Another point that Renynzea misses is that unlike Mages that can regen power at the cost of life and that have lower power using spells and a larger power pool, some classes like fighter and scouts burn power quickly.  Many fighters are unable to use thier high attacks in order to reserve power to save for taunts over longer periods of times.  Scouts (assassin speaking) have heavy hitting abilities that take a good chunk (6% and up) out of your power pool and are set on 5minute timers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However after all this is said, I must reiterate, this is not a nerf class X post or cry me a river and boost class y post.  This is also not a flame post.  This was just put out to see if anyone else was seeing higher resist on the TEST server.  If you are please say so.  If your not then please suggest what myself and others like me may be doing wrong or experiencing that would give us the impression we are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you.</DIV>

[Aienaa]

<DIV>I know what your talking about, as I have experienced it also...  I contribute our lower damage output to the fact that they nerfed the damage bonus comming from increased strength..  I currently hold the High Melee Damage record for my server (Kithicor), which I got before the damage bonus nerf (same patch in which they increased wizzy/necro damage by 150-350%, they decreased damage bonus by up to 45%).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- The damage bonus given by extremely high amounts of strength has been reduced. For example, having a strength of 400 previously gave a 200% damage bonus; after this change, the damage bonus is 155%. There is no change to the damage bonus at a STR of 100, and only a slight reduction at 200 STR.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*NOTE: they would not say what the reduction was at 200 STR, I believe it was far greater than just "slight"<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I always maintain atleast 200+ strength while grouped.  Since the damage bonus nerf, the closest I have come to the record damage I set, is about 250 damage lower.   In general, I do hit for less on normal auto attacks as well...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for Assassin Vs. Wizzy damage, the wizzy that responded said they had to use like 2-3 debuffs before they could achieve high damage hits..  Well, I use a minimum of 5 debuffs to achieve higher damage hits, and this doesn't even count the ones I have to use if I want poisons to stick...  The person also said they don't get a agro reducer, which is not correct, because they do, but just like the Assassin's, they don't do any good...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 50 Assassin - Kithicor</DIV>