Mentoring, Welcome to the new official content bypass switch

[Dokotan]

<DIV>Im posting this here because I just dont know where else to adress this concern and tests section seems more appropriate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's in my opinion that their is a distinct difference between the devs wishes on how the players will play it and the reality of how the players do actually play the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In concept the mentoring idea is great for many reason already stated, friends with friends, casual players etc etc and I absolutly agree with the general idea.  Whyle the current proposition is nice on paper, their is a concern for abuse and almost a ingame cheat NoDetect  game killer switch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First lets look at those 3 lines from the News post regarding Mentoring.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- When you right click a lower level group member, you will see an option to Mentor them</DIV> <DIV><BR>- The Mentors and Apprentice will receive experience, loot, and quest credit as if the Mentor were the same level as the Apprentice. </DIV> <DIV><BR>- A Mentor can right click their Apprentice and select "Stop Mentoring" when they wish to stop acting as a Mentor. </DIV> <DIV><BR>The problem here in its current proposition is the fact that this fonction can be activated and deactivated at any time repeatadly.  Now guess how this will be use in game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me point it out with an example.  I will use Ruins of Varsoon for the example and 2 groups.  the first group is compose of 6 players all in the same level that the zone  I will call this group the legitimate group.  The second group can be of 2 configuration a- 5 high levels with 1 in the level of the zone. configuration b- 4 of the level of the zone with only 1 high level.  I will call this second group the RealLifePLayers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For simplicity I will use the configuration B for group 2</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now lets say this mentoring is live with the curent method of activation.</DIV> <DIV>The 2 groups enter the ruins of Varsoon.  Nothing new for the legitimate group they will have to fight their way in to reach the name mobs that their hunting for the quest and loot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The RealLifePLayers group enter as is.  Since the high level is not mentoring anyone, everything is grey everywhere in the dungon.  Cool say the other lower level we can run everywhere without any risks... and of they go passing by the legitimate group fighting is first encouter... Ciao and good luck hahaha!  The RealLifePLayers group run everywhere safelly and check the spawns leaving all the blocking mobs there and they are grey to them and this as the side effect that it maintain a blocade to the legitimate group who are hunting the same named ones.  The group finally have a pop.  Yes! they buff up to the bones, start to fight the grey name up to 25% of the health mob.  Then our high level as stated in the mecanic right click a group member and start mentoring.  His gears and spells are croped down to the current level.  Tanana! The named mob turn green and is almost dead so the risks are minimal.  It dies and yea evryone we have a chess... grats grats grats grats... the High level right clic the player he is mentoring and stop it... Everything turns grey again and the patern continues... walking freelly in the zone and the lower levels in the group bypassing content and obstacle as if they were high levels also.  The next good mob show... bring it down to 25%, start mentoring, finish the job, collect the loot then switch of danger and rince and repeat at nauzeam.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>During that time the legitimate group had to fight is way, meaby with couple of death ( read Depts ) to the named that is never there because the RealLifePLayers group always run next to them in the corridors laughing out loud watching them having to fight the clay's that are blocking the road...  And hahaha... we just find a way to bypass the group depts design at the same time... Another good reason to do it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The question is not if the players will do this or not.  Weakup! they will do it!  Why? Each time i went in a group questing it was a race running here and there, examine this and that picking all the quest around where you dont have one second to read the text before the popup shows to accept the quest.  With NPC, you barelly have time to clic the choice that will make the blabla continue until the popup showup.  For statics items it's just next, next, next,next next, next until the same popup appear.  This is how peoples are playing, if you want to just keep up with the group, you dont stop to listen the npc and you dont read the text.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I play since release and between 6 to 10 hours each day since then.  And it is always like that when your in a group doing questing in a dungon.  Everyone is rushing in then content and this is with all groups i've been with and I dont have a regular group so it has nothing to do with the peoples i'm with.  It is exceptionnal that I group with the same peoples.  And the only thing you see in the group chat when entering a room where their is a quest to pick is , got it, me too, same, got it, ok lets move....  The all thing take less than 10 sec for a static text of 7 pages or an NPC voice over that need 6 player interventions.  The npc says 2 words, clic, next 2 words of the second page, clic and you never get the story.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then the only thing that is slowing down the group is the fact they have to fight their way in.  And now, SEO is preparing to implement a feature that will permit to run freelly in a zone (grey mobs provided by your firendly high level) pick all the quest in 3 sec each then go directly to the target mobs or objective, have the update and start mentoring when credit kills are necessary.  Now if anyone is saying noooo no one will do that, your either just waiting the feature to be live to do it or you didn't play the game much.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes peoples will do it because you have all reasons to do so!</DIV> <DIV>- they want the rewards fast<BR>- they want the xp from the quest fast<BR>- they want the status point<BR>- guilds will do it for the status point and level the guild faster.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grouping with a high level to turn off all danger is a method already use to recover lost shards without the need to fight all the way back.  But using this twist for shard recovery does not have the same impact on the game than the propose mentoring system.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now when i read from the news post about  Mentoring</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(-We are sensitive to the possibility of creating a new way for people to retain arbitrary levels for the purposes of bot-farming, and don't wish to create a system that encourages it.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I truly beleive that you missed something way much more damagable than bot-farming...  This fonctionality will not be use the way you think it will.  Of course some of the players will use it to group with friends, I will use it to finish my old grey quest grouping with lower level that are actually doing it going back in time being myself at their level.  This will be less boring to hunt down a named that i know is grey that will give me no chance of the loot he gave to others and i will gain xp while doing it.  And even if it's less xp because i'm mentoring it will still be better than grey stuff that give no xp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact is regardless of the good intention of SEO to accomodate the player base between level differenciation so casual players can group with firends, guildies that have more time to put in the game and it's all design that I understand and approve.  It doesn't change the fact that this feature, the way it's actually design to work is nothing more than a switch to bypass content, bypass challange, bypass death.  It will encourage more racing and rushing in questing offering a way to turn off the danger and go directly to the objectives safelly and toggle the swith at the last minute to have all the benefit of the quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then this leads to a question to the game designer.  If you intend to implement a feature that can basicly remove all obstacle between the start point of the quest and the end point.  Why not simply give the reward when I pick the quest it would be the same result since I wont have to fight my way in...  Then, at this point, why would their be dungons with obstacles and increasing difficulty toward the last deepest room where the desire loot is?  I can turn them grey just with the presence of a high level so i walk in picking my nose...  Just empty the dongons of the mobs it will do the same thing... Ho but at this point...  Tell me please dear designers, why play the game at all????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really hope that peoples will have an enough open mind to see the big issues this will bring to the game in its curent form.  Because their is more damaging condition from this NoTarget cheat swith called mentoring and it would be too long to list them all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The trivial loot system become absolete with arrival of mentoring and the it's the trivial loot code that become the content bypasser switch turning everything grey.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think about it more please.  I understant that you want to do it now and fast for many commercial reasons... but doing round corners in design is not the thing to do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mentoring in its current implementation form is a game killer.</DIV>

[Dimgroth]

except they thought of this and now mobs that con red to an aprentice will attack them even when grouped with a high level. I look foward to the mentor system, for it means instead of not playing my knight for my elven lady to catch up, I can mentor her and be with her in battle.

[FeeRs]

<DIV>sorry i stopped reading when it became obvious that you completely forget about the gray mob red to lowest player still attacking feature</DIV>

[Joxer]

<DIV>wow such a moan, and so many untruths in here..</DIV> <DIV>The players who are higher level will be scaled down to the apprentice`s level.</DIV> <DIV>Also their equipment will be scaled down.</DIV> <DIV>So just to make this clear :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5>Your Wrong</FONT></DIV>

[Alis]

<DIV>Plus there is the real issue of hunting lower lvl stuff for exp you will not have enough money.</DIV>

[Dokotan]

<DIV>(sorry i stopped reading when it became obvious that you completely forget about the gray mob red to lowest player still attacking feature)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please is this just on test or i simply just didn't ever saw a grey mob attack me... ever.  Even when i group with a lower level to help him recover a shard.  If he was still supposed to be attack well something is not working cause it never happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If their is actually a partial method of preventing  the potential abuse before it goes live I interested to know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a second level, meaby you should read all the way to grasp the general idea and multiple secondary effect that this feature introduce.    You stoped on a detail that does not invalidate all points and aspects i'm questionning myself on.  I'm not saying i'm right, this is what is poping concerning this theorical idealistic way designer wish player would play  versus how players actually play the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>dont get me wrong, I want to be able to group with friend that I out leveled and can't anymore and would welcome that possibility.  But their is already so much farming, racing to content and levels, looter maniac already in this game that a feature that would bring in some more of this kind of exploit would just ruin the game for me.  If this mentoring feature bring in the kind of exploit I see possible with the current post in the news, and the way it is describe:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And i will write them again</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>- When you right click a lower level group member, you will see an option to Mentor them</DIV> <DIV><BR>- The Mentors and Apprentice will receive experience, loot, and quest credit as if the Mentor were the same level as the Apprentice. </DIV> <DIV><BR>- A Mentor can right click their Apprentice and select "Stop Mentoring" when they wish to stop acting as a Mentor. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This mecanic is opening alot of exploits in it's present form.  This is how it's propose to work at current time.  Those who see no potential problems with the form well...   wait and see.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont want this game to be ruin because something was overlooked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>since one of the general ideas of mentoring is to make lower lvls catch up to their friends/guilds/mates I assume that the mentor will get *less* XP than the apprentice - otherwise this system would be pointless as "mr. knight" would have to mentor "mrs. priest" for the rest of his life.....</DIV>

[Dokotan]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc33>wow such a moan, and so many untruths in here..</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You sure?  Lets verify that </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc33>The players who are higher level will be scaled down to the apprentice`s level.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc33>Also their equipment will be scaled down.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc33> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Where did you imagine I said otherwise????  ok.. what did I wrote... copy paste of my original post  :  </FONT> <FONT color=#ffff33>Then our high level as stated in the mecanic right click a group member and start mentoring.  His gears and spells are croped down to the current level. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Now why are you trying to put words in my mouth as if I said otherwise?</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc33>So just to make this clear :</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5>Your Wrong</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Clearly if someone is wrong here its you obviously... pease learn how to read :smileyvery-happy:</DIV></DIV>

[Tag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dokotanis wrote:<BR> <DIV>(sorry i stopped reading when it became obvious that you completely forget about the gray mob red to lowest player still attacking feature)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please is this just on test or i simply just didn't ever saw a grey mob attack me... ever.  Even when i group with a lower level to help him recover a shard.  If he was still supposed to be attack well something is not working cause it never happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><snip></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT> <DIV>Look here <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=26" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=26</A> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is a quote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- If an aggressive opponent would con red to the lowest-level member of the group but instead cons gray to the group because of its average level, the NPC will remain aggro and attack all the members of that group. A normally aggressive creature that will not aggro should no longer have a red border around its name. In short: grey mobs that have a red border will attack your group; grey mobs without a red border will not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think mentoring is a great idea and I can't wait for it.</DIV>

[Dokotan]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>since one of the general ideas of mentoring is to make lower lvls catch up to their friends/guilds/mates I assume that the mentor will get *less* XP than the apprentice - otherwise this system would be pointless as "mr. knight" would have to mentor "mrs. priest" for the rest of his life.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have no problem with the apprentice gaining more xp whyle he is mentor and the mentor having less XP.  This is the all point of this feature to slow down my high char and speed up my friend lower char.  When I will mentor a friend of mine that is presently 10 levels below me.  I welcome the fact that she will gain better xp than normal so she can reach my level faster and that i'm slowed down so she reach me even fasteer.  I dont want to go all over again the long grinding of level at normal speed whyle i'm mentoring a friend.   The faster she reach my level the less time i will spend in lower zones repeating stuff I already done countless times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the apprentice as no xp gain then it's better for me to log on my alt and play with her as we do now.  In the end i will have a char that will follow my friend and eventually reach high levels and my main that will continue to progress.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me to use my main high level sort of speak (lev 36) to mentor a lev 26 it's because i want her to progress faster so she can reach my hunting ground at the same time. not to power level cause we would still have to do it all but just less longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My problem is in the conditions and activation as a toggle switch between mentoring and not...  Think about it, i'm mentoring my friend and i drop to lev 26.  then we go hunt something in TS appropriate to lev 26, then trouble arrive... Adds... hoho... i toggle back mentoring to off... and wipe out the add just like that whyle my friend is staying out of reach of damage... when the situation is in control again, i bring back the mentoring on again just like it's currently propose... right clic on the group member and select mentor... then we continue as if nothing had happen...  Forget about agro control, (who needs a chanter to mezz) carefully chosing the stop where you pull ( who need a good tank puller?) , Evac? (who needs a scout?)  We dont need it anymore... run and yelling when it's to hot Why?... We dont have to, I can kick in my real char anytime I wish to deal with it just by right clicking again on the player and select stop mentoring and instantly regain all my stats, all my spells, all my power, all my AC everything and kill the mobs in 5 sec...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This feature is needed but not in its present form of a simple right clic ON-OFF switch without any restrictions.  It would need restriction with long recast timers or something so I could not in a middle of a fight kick in my high level char to remove the risk of the group... how can the objective of mentoring could be reach and how the apprentice could learn how to play is class if I can remove the challange and risk anytime i want?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This fonctionality to work without those kind of abuse would need some sort of commitment from all parties... When I decide to mentor a lower level, I cannot switch it off for a specefic amount of time... let say for the example 4 hours.  It's a commitment that need preperation, pre determine timeframe where both players would agree to do it... like a session or something but not just an on and off switch like i activate a torch... and pouff voila.. on demand god mode (by turing mentoring off) from the low level perspective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Squallaby]

I belive you also can't drop mentor in combat. So what you just said can't happen either.And the grey thing is on test.

[Zerofault]

<DIV>Dokotanis, you obviously don't play on the test server, so please keep your crap out of this section.. this is for legitimate test server feedback, not your ignorant opinions</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV>

[Dokotan]

<DIV>Aye tagga i see what your refering too.  So part of the potential problem is gone.. no freewalking in a dongeon good ..  now how about the fact that i can turn of mentoring at any time of my choosing and be myself again will all my true level skills...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>try to imagine from the low level perspective..  your a lev 15 group with another lev 15 and sudenly your friend transform Hulk style to a hubber lev 30 and wipe out the add that just pop.  Try to imagine this happen in the first week when the game release... Would you wonder what food and drink he used?  what buff he use to see all his stats crank up like this?  Wouldn't everyone cryed to nerfed that evil unbalance spell if they had one transforming you doubling youre curent level? Wouldn't it change anything when you started to play fighting for youre life with the add that just pop, assuming here you play since release.  On a game play point of view, it's not mentoring the problem.   the problem is it can be turn on and off at any given time by the mentor.</DIV>

[Dokotan]

<DIV>Dokotanis, you obviously don't play on the test server, so please keep your crap out of this section.. this is for legitimate test server feedback, not your ignorant opinions</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HAHAHA... ho i see, your important because your someone who is paying $15 a month to be a compagny tester whyle others are actually paid to test software...   and all others dont know heck...    you put a smile on my face today kid</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Blackin_DeMast]

<P>...</P><p>Message Edited by Blackin_DeMaster on <span class=date_text>03-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:25 AM</span>

[Dokotan]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>I belive you also can't drop mentor in combat. So what you just said can't happen either.<BR></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont see anything about this on the news posts.  Only things that are stated officially are the stats-skill-spells crop to the level of the apprentice at full state and the ability of the mentor to activate and deactivate at any given time or when ungrouping.  No other type of restrictions were mentions not even suggests in the annoucement and their is to be some clear restrictions about it.  just in combat is not enough.  Better than nothing but not enough.  I could still kick in my high char, say to the apprentice stay here while i clear the way to the name mob then when the path is clear swith back mentoring on again, my friend moves in and we just abused the system by wiping out the design protectors (mobs blocking the way to the name) of the name in the last room of the dungon for my friend to pick the loot.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>

[pillb]

I have a mentor question that I didn't want to start a new thread on so I'll ask., can you get Sword of Thunder through mentoring a level 20(ish) in SH or do you still have to pay gouge prices because chests wont drop?

[Joxer]

<DIV>/ignore </DIV> <DIV>Your just trolling here</DIV>

[Shazzbott_Feldercarb]

<blockquote><hr>Dokotanis wrote:<DIV><HR></DIV><DIV>I belive you also can't drop mentor in combat. So what you just said can't happen either.<BR></DIV><DIV><HR></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Dont see anything about this on the news posts. Only things that are stated officially are the stats-skill-spells crop to the level of the apprentice at full state and the ability of the mentor to activate and deactivate at any given time or when ungrouping. No other type of restrictions were mentions not even suggests in the annoucement and their is to be some clear restrictions about it. just in combat is not enough. Better than nothing but not enough. I could still kick in my high char, say to the apprentice stay here while i clear the way to the name mob then when the path is clear swith back mentoring on again, my friend moves in and we just abused the system by wiping out the design protectors (mobs blocking the way to the name) of the name in the last room of the dungon for my friend to pick the loot.</DIV><DIV><BR></DIV><hr></blockquote>I can do that now, without mentoring. So mentoring will have no impact on that scenario.Shazz

[Helixi]

<DIV>Well first off you need to stop and think before you post.</DIV> <DIV> I can have my level 50 follow around my alts group now, even without the mentor system and have her kill adds.</DIV> <DIV>  I can grey out the hole zone and let my alts group  go through many zones w/o agro as is.</DIV> <DIV>   I being a level 50 should be able to give my group an advantage, since im a level 50.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I can't group with my friends because im to high level.</DIV> <DIV>  I can't be in the same group with my friends for quests or mob loot.</DIV> <DIV>   I can't do many guild raids due to mobs being GREY.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Do you honestly think SOE didnt think about this being abused?</DIV> <DIV>   I'm pretty sure you won't be able to toggle mentor system during combat, and i beleave you need to be complaining</DIV> <DIV>    more about the system now because everything you described can happen now with the exception of getting loot off a grey mob.</DIV> <DIV>     If a mob cons red to the lowest member it attacks, so stop your dam crying about groups passing mobs</DIV> <DIV>      because this new system actually makes it harder to pass mobs.</DIV> <DIV>       In no way is it a game killer or anything of the sort and you need to think before you post as i said before.</DIV> <DIV>        I doubt a level 45+ will FREAK OUT over lvl 30 loot when it will be grey and, you can get 15x better with a group your own level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>         So lets take a step back and look at what your saying.</DIV> <DIV>          You are whining about a system that improves ALL the points your trying to make against it.</DIV> <DIV>            You have to be a idiot to claim ""Mentoring in its current implementation form is a game killer"".</DIV> <DIV>              </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the next time you plan on posting just stop and tell yourself your a [Removed for Content] and nobody wants hear what you have to say okies thx </DIV> <DIV>bye bye :womanhappy:</DIV>

[Dokotan]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>/ignore </DIV> <DIV>Your just trolling here</DIV></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>who is trolling me?  dont tell me your serious!  I read an official post for a major change opening the door to many potential abuses of all kind.  I reference the official text of the annoucment for what it's saying and not what it's not saying.  comming up front with my concerns just so their is confirmation and a bit of thinking before its live.  What I receive is undocumented and unveryfied assumptions on statements that do not exist from SOE,  ego comment from someone who make a big deal in is life paying to test software.  And on top of that, no factuals documented referenced to official position.  And they see themself as serious testers...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No one need to provide or makup answers if you just dont have it.  I'm not seeking answer from anyplayers that auto-proclaim themself a qualified software tester just because they have a toon on a server that receive update 10 days before the others.  No peice of software ever came out without issues and overlooked details ever and it will never happen it's part of the process.  Every professional knows this.  And since they didn't mention any of this nor adress those possibilities in the current form theirs is every reason to beleive that it was overlooked.  not talking about it is a lack of efficiency, pretending it do not exist or refusing to think about potential side effects is incompetence.  Surrely all the testers here especially self-proclaims know about those basics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im not talking to the public players on test server.  I just bring it on to the professionals behind that are paid to code and test just in case they missed it.  Others i dont care much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dokotan]

<DIV>helixion thank you for your mature and very professional way of adressing issues regarding a product of your company and at the same time showing your communication skill in a so refine way.  I'm sure SOE is quite proud of your skill in customer relation and the image you provide to them.  Ho sorry,  my bad, your a paying player posing as a real one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make my day would you, if your not a legitimate staff member of SEO just keep your falls associations and vaguely similar comparison to yourself.  I wont even put energy  taking each of your points to illustrate where and in what mesure they do not related and why in the gameplay.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I made a huge assumption posting in here thinking that their was a minimum of qualified peoples in here instead of simple gamers that hear what they want to hear and interpret what they want to interpret depending if they like it or not.  I'm sorry for you if you think that software delelopment is anything else than technical dissociated of your personal preferences and only thing that you like should be discuss.  Thats probably why your paying to test and not the otherway around.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tank you, you did your best but ile just pass and make out just fine without your fine expertise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[tesarei]

<DIV>I belive he was responding to the post on the trolling</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a mentor question that I didn't want to start a new thread on so I'll ask., can you get Sword of Thunder through mentoring a level 20(ish) in SH or do you still have to pay gouge prices because chests wont drop?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>dont take everything as a attack against you. take a calming breath and refocus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>however i would have to agree with the other posters with the changes as they are on test its not something that will hurt game play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>no you cant engage or disengage mentor if your in combat</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>red mobs to the lowest lvl member will still attack the group so you cant bypass the content. (wich as has been posted you can do in live now. and then when your there have the high lvl leave the party adn you can wack the named mob)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those tow things do alot in addressing your concerns and dont realy add any posibility for abuse.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>things that would be of more concern is if you could buff using the high lvl buffs and then turn it on while keeping those buffs. but you know even those are being scaled. why is that hmm cause the testers thought of this tried it and reported it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>testers give feed back in game on many issues and while we may not chatch them all we do tend to think how will this affect the game.  SOE also does this and will try and think of ways this could be misused and then reduce the posiblities as best as posible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People you dont need to tear some one down who is trying to post in what is his eyes a important consideration to how this might affect the game. many of you have become to emotional in your responces</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>all in all this change is a good one</DIV>

[Helixi]

<DIV>Clearly you are a complete [Removed for Content].</DIV> <DIV>You want to dodge the idiotic facts, you tryed to pass off as legitimate reason's. </DIV> <DIV>To make this moronic post shows you have no common sense.</DIV> <DIV>Ok lets all cry like little childeren because SOE is adding a system which IMPROVES the current.   <---- read that again [Removed for Content]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since you decided to dodge the majority of what i said i'll lay it out for you again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1ST of you half-witted bungler,  all the fecal you spewed earlier about boo hoo they can grey out zones.</DIV> <DIV>Well they are trying to fix it by making red mobs agro you [Removed for Content].</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2ND sure some people will farm loot of lower levels mobs but it will be grey loot, and it's easier to get loot your</DIV> <DIV>own level. Understand that you brain dead [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3RD wow, people will be able to group with thier guildies and friends somthing </DIV> <DIV>somone as mentally handicap as you might have a problem understanding.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4TH Holy crap i will be able to raid with lower levels in my guild.    <---- Probally tuff for a dim-wit like yourself to comprehend.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5TH Wowzer your character and gear goes down with levels. !! [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] you dont say.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> You are clearly just a [Removed for Content] that trolls these boards spewing this pointless fecal and then attacks people  about subjects completly irrelevant</DIV> <DIV> to anything pretaining to this subject.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Insulting testers, gamers,players in general.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You sir should have taken my advice and shut you hole before you make yourself look like a bigger dunce.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This time take my advice and shut that  moronic mouth.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll be waiting for your reply [Removed for Content].</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Buh BYE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Shazzbott_Feldercarb]

<blockquote><hr>Helixion wrote:<DIV>A load of useless dribble.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Helixion, please try to be a little more mature. If you wish to just insult people the become a fashion critic. But stop attacking other people.Shazz

[Helixi]

<DIV>Well at least i've added so positive reasons for the mentor system which is far more then i can say for your post. </DIV> <DIV>Maturity, and you beleave your typing in a chat box defines maturity ya don't make me laugh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless of what i type in this box has no bearing on my maturity level unless you mean having the wisdom to know when and when not to speak</DIV> <DIV>but your not a qualified judge of that so your opinion has no bearing to me.</DIV>

[Dashofpepp]

<DIV>Pillbub:  Sword of Thunders are body drops.  Not chest drops.  That changed quite some time ago.  Read back to old, old OLD patch notes.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Go get em tiger. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>I think the OP has one valid point in the whole mess:  Mentoring during combat.  As long as the mentoring cann't be turned off during an engagement, there's really no problem with it except the tweaking they are doing to the amount of xp.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Not combat, engagement.  It wouldn't be cool if a L10 and a L50 mentoring them got adds, and called for help (ending combat) and the L50 pops mentoring off to one hit kill the adds.  Has anyone tested this?   Solid proof without suppositions?  Can mentoring be toggled in combat?  Can you call for help, run away and toggle off mentoring?  That's the only real concern.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the rest of what the OP had to say... /sigh.  I'm not going to flame here, but you did make a very, VERY lengthy post without having done research on the subject first.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Shazzbott_Feldercarb]

<blockquote><hr>Helixion wrote:<DIV>Well at least i've added so positive reasons for the mentor system which is far more then i can say for your post. </DIV><DIV>Maturity, and you beleave your typing in a chat box defines maturity ya don't make me laugh.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Regardless of what i type in this box has no bearing on my maturity level unless you mean having the wisdom to know when and when not to speak</DIV><DIV>but your not a qualified judge of that so your opinion has no bearing to me.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Actually, the fact you couldn't make a post without resorting to call people insulting names is what I base my maturity comment on. Writing it or speaking it, makes no difference, the childish need to belittle others shows the lack of maturity.And by opening your mouth and writing here, you have removed all doubt as to your wisdom.ShazzHave a nice day.

[aeio]

thirty seconds of developer track reading could have saved all those keystrokes. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Solento]

The odd problem with the agressive grey mob tweak is that it won't actually stop the dungeon-crawler exploit -- after all, that only applies if the critters around would be red-con to the lowest-leveled member of a group. A guildie a few levels up on the rest of the group can successfully grey out most of a zone without having to worry about the red con issue.This seems to target the harvesting and shard recovery fluffy exploits more than attempting to pre-emptively correct any sort of mentoring nasty exploit.

[SavinDwa]

<DIV>Dokotanis,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I carefully read through your whole post.  I had a bit of a hard time following it and was unclear of whether you were "guessing" or had actually tested any of this.  There are just so many things wrong in your post .. perhaps its a langauge problem?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For instance, you said</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><EM>"Grouping with a high level to turn off all danger is a method already use to recover lost shards without the need to fight all the way back.  But using this twist for shard recovery does not have the same impact on the game than the propose mentoring system."</EM></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hmm... this problem was fixed on live over a month ago .. maybe longer.  Haven't you noticed there was a complete change in the group aggro dynamics?  We even went through a period of about 7-10 days when it was so messed up as to be down right dangerous and it didn't help they released it into live a day before they put the notes up about the change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You have made a very long post.  I assume you have thought this through and as a result have some interesting examples.  But you are basing this on a small badly explained, high-level description of mentoring on the test server.  SOE are very very bad at explaining things in these release notes, I don't know why, but they always skim over important details at 50,000ft.  I haven't tried out the mentoring code on test yet because I'm busing testing some other stuff.  But I will be very surprised if it works they way you think -- the description is just so high level that you can't determine anything from it.  For instance, perhaps the mechanics don't let to change from mentor to non mentor while you are locked in an engagement?  Who knows.  In the case of test release notes the whole point is that they players on test try them out and give feed back.  I'm sure we have over 300-500 players trying it out right now.  If you want to help then create a character on test and see how it works.  Test your theory out.  If it works the way you think, [and you will be able to discuss it with the people you group with], then post your finds here.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope I don't sound dimissive of your ideas.  I think you could have a point.  The problem is that it will take me a lot of work to try it out and there are already other people testing this stuff on test.  Most don't post here because ... for every post from a tester there are 200 posts from people "worried" or "who misunderstood the release notes" or "the release notes were not accurate" or "it was already spotted, discussed for days and fixed" etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Proudfoot]

<blockquote><hr>Dokotanis wrote:<DIV>Dokotanis, you obviously don't play on the test server, so please keep your crap out of this section.. this is for legitimate test server feedback, not your ignorant opinions</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>HAHAHA... ho i see, your important because your someone who is paying $15 a month to be a compagny tester whyle others are actually paid to test software... and all others dont know heck... you put a smile on my face today kid</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Actually Dokotanis, he's right. Your input isn't needed or wanted on the subject unless you are actually testing the items you are complaining about. The Test Server forum isn't a rant forum, it isn't a whine about LIVE content forum. Its for bugs, discussions for what's on Test (not ranting about something you don't want patched) and so forth.You're just trolling for attention.

[Faarwolf]

<DIV>Helexion, this sort of behavior is not allowed.  If you cannot post in a civil manner then you should not be posting at all.</DIV>