Derv, test this.....YOU NEED TO READ and comment plz....

[Zdra]

<DIV>OK i decided to test tradeskill now since the nerf and found out that you have to test more before break totaly something and implent something that can be abused again while making cry tons of crafter coz they have to find way to exploit to survive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First the 60% reward from task is a big joke, you cant give 60% and say hey there is your profit margin without test it, you make thing VERY unfair and unbalanced and sorry to mention it but [Removed for Content] off thousand of more customer that are waiting for to find a valide way for tradeskill to reward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets me detail my test, i wont mention the subclass , but anyway all your system is abusable......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OK first some crafter class final produce sell for 30 silver or so.....while some others sell for 2 gold but both take same time to make, so then you give a 60% on each but did you really calcul the unbalance in this ? 30 silver + 160% = 48 silver, 18 silver profit if you harvested your stuff, since half crafter dont, those subclass having relatively 30 silver final produce make 9 silver for some long task.......that a joke being lvl 50 crafter sorry, but over that you can boost it up with your new skill system, since more the final produce will sell.....more cash the 60% margin will give you so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make crude.....use the new system of skill on the combine it require 2 fuel insteand of one use the 2 fuel.....so you end final product will worth much more and the 60% from the task will give you much more **** as well use 9.22 silver fuel even if you arent in T5 combine *** it become somewhat not too bad profit for them doing so even more from T3-T4 combine since composent sell cheaps like hell and only the fuel is calculated so you end up with more profit as LOW level you can be.......( applaud derv ) again this isnt too bad in a 4-5 h doing so you make 30 gold or so profit, that a not bad but not good profit considering you lvl 50 crafter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where is you main mistake is some subclass final produce sometime reach near 2.5 gold.....and take similar time to do task or just a tiny more.....which the 2.5 gold come into x 160% which give 4 gold , that 1.5 gold profit compared to the 18 silver others make ( most at least ) 1.5 gold x 10 ( a task ) oups a 15 gold profit when others make 0.18 x 10 a big 1.8 gold profit for rounded the same time to make.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now the booster part......you can get the same item that sold 2 gold at npc MAKING crude only get it up to what ? lotta gold + the new skill you implented climb it up to what ? more gold which make the 60% worth lotta gold and i dont think i have to detail it much......you get the way to go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not think this is too much profit, the few subclass making such money make maybe 1.5 pp per day of 8 hour this is far from the 5 pp some abused on and considering its not everyone doing so it pass well but dont wonder why some crafter whine the hell out while some others shut up in their corner , the same abusng the old system probably abuse the new one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These change are live and know since awhile now, i dont think those making good money off it are making too much for my part it seem what all crafter should make at lvl 50 to match, but i guess insteand of balancing this so all crafter win somewhat good money you will be coming with the nerf fat stick in but well someone can still have some faith in the game he used to love at somepoint.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want the best tips from a somewhat expert on MPG, either crash the whole economy down and revise it to be in line with what you promised crafter to be......or just wipe the subclass from the game and compense these that once beliaved into your promess of crafter doing impact into the economy and into the game......the only impact we have is the whine all over, the overflood of stuff all around and the impact we have flooding to wow......or playing at finding exploit to survive......and make somewhat a little cash out of your big floop system.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not from testserver but guess a part was skipped here and anyway you dont even seem to listen much to test server communoty.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Awaiting you once more with your nerf destruction hammer which will get thing even more worse probably.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and btw.....since we in a feedback area great that you add a new little expansion that fast when we rots on your high level content bugged and that we are still into a beta test overall and that the basic stuff is still broken, its the way to go to keep money flooding. Wish i had no consience so i could get rich into my business ripping off the poeple out and still they ask more....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>See you in few day</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zeus</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Miral]

<DIV>I once conversed with an orc and managed to convince him I was a derv... but i'm finding it really hard to follow your broken english... is there a uh... more native language you could get someone to translate from? maybe french or german?</DIV>

[Vindicis]

<DIV>I left my [Removed for Content] decoder ring at home, anyone with one handy mind translating for me please?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Vindicis on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:18 AM</span>

[Zdra]

<DIV> <DIV>Lol well sorry, i writed this up at 3 am or so =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets me resume this in clear, if your final produce worth highner and you take a task vs that product exemple essense of heal, you boots up as much as possible the price, take the highner level fuel, take the new skill for the dye and the ink *** double the fuel cost ***  PLUS making the temper, all of them CRUDE *** the value of the crude go up drastiquely insteand of being splitted in 4 like pristine would *** the task will give you 16 gold and few silver, normaly you would get the cost price of like 10 gold, profit is much more  gold......coz the 60% applyed on a VERY boosted combine and crude take you less time to make than pristine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets use this on armorer task......make temper crude as well, bar pristine *** so final produce allow you to make it shaped as the task will ask you*** make sheet and stud crude but plate pristine and finish the task shaped armor like your task require......it give 23 gold or more i cant recall exactly , since armorer can x cross more of their subcombine with the new skill the cost go drastiquely up so you end up with a 60% profit on 23 gold.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont think i need to explain this more, the basic is easy to get.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And btw dont need to be rude at someone which isnt native english.......thx we cant be perfect.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zeus</DIV></DIV>

[Blackin_DeMast]

<DIV>**Blinks**</DIV>

[aeio]

I would laugh so hard if a dervish cutthroat responded to this thread.

[Vindicis]

<DIV>I think his post explains how to unlock the Frogloks, if we could just decipher it!</DIV>

[SlumLo]

<DIV>Man this is HILARIOUS LOL :manvery-happy:</DIV>

[Nakato]

<P>I kind of have an idea of what Zdraco I think is trying to point out so I'll post it here. I am not entirely sure if this is what Zeus is going for or not. I also havn't tested this but it is definately something I will likely look into next week if I get some time.</P> <P>Because payout is based on percentage of cost a player can make more money by increasing the cost of production.</P> <P>To max increase cost of production you do 3 things. </P> <P>1) Always use the highest cost fuel no matter what tier item you are making.<BR>2) Only make crude chemicals because it allows for more fuel to be utilized in the creation process.<BR>3) Make all subcomponents using the new skills sence it utilizes more fuel</P> <DIV>Zeus seems to be saying if you make tempers crude fuel costs go up so you can make significantly more profit at the final stage of turn in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1 and 3 I already knew about. I have not thought about number 2 before thou. Zeus may be pointing out a way that I can near double or tripple the cost of production as such a way to double or tripple the payout for the reward. This would be quite a find I'ld say.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Logic is if I'm payed a percentage base off cost it is always better to have a higher cost no matter what so my profit per finished item goes up. Altough I am not sure if this will result in a higher profit per combine. If the crude chemical sells for cost while a normal or pristine sell for 5cp Zeus's method is always a winner. Otherwise I get more profit at end of the task but not necesarrily more profit per combine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Interesting Zeus. </DIV>

[SavinDwa]

<DIV>Zdraco,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are you guessing on the T5 fuel issue?  Or have you actually confirmed that this bug is still in the game?  I reported this problem privately about 8-10 days ago and, at least on the live systems, it was quitely fixed within 48 hours.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are you saying the bug still exists on test?  Are you saying the bug has reappeared on the live system?  Or are you just guessing that it is a potenial exploit based on the descriptions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zdra]

<DIV>Ok for the [Removed for Content] making fun about my native language, sorry but you are the kind of man that this world doesnt need, we cant be as perfect as you, but at least i do the job some poeple didnt want to spoil or test in either case ,i try to help your overall gameplay and try to make the game once more enjoyable by everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as stated above by someone which gentlemen translated my say , the crude way = the same gain as making 4 task at same time and while reducing the time consuming than using the pristine way......so you speak about a fast way to make cash , even more if your combine require more of these new skill which double the cost of the fuel like armorer and weaponsmith does.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This as been tested yesterday and again today on splitpaw and nothing changed, the same way can still be abused if it wasnt intended, if it was intended well now poeple know and can gain somewhat more cash than previously.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont point this out for it to be nerfed again or neither destroyed, but again a balance that sony seem to be clueless about how to fix is needed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you have the provisionner greatly penalized from having their fuel cost lower than anyone else plus they cant use the new skill system to boost them much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the others hand you have the alchemist which can gain a little pay , we speak maybe about 10-15 gold per hours.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You have the tailor, armorer and weaponcrafter which gain about 40 gold + per hours......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and i didnt tested the carpenter and neither the scribe but i feel them between alchemist and armorer gain from just looking at their product.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont ask for this to be nerfed or destroyed but cant there be a balance ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> why not make the end product cost the same for every crafter or as possible in line with the reward from task, its probably less hassle for them to give x reward for T1, T2, T3, T4, T5 task without care which class crafted it but considering the cost + the reward at the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Exemple:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alchemist task costed 11 gold to complete  it and get 18 gold as reward for doing T5 task.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Armorer task costed 22 gold to complete it and get 29 gold as reward for doing a T5 task.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everyone get a 7 gold reward as exemple for doing a T5 task, so everything is fair and there is no exploit or abuse and make all crafter feel somewhat more usefull or at least feel more rewarded.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then again they can give a little more for lvl 50 crafter completing task, since lvl 50 dont gain anymore xp and would feel a goal to reach lvl 50 at least.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whatever way they heading lately, they leave some money loop in game, which get   abused or exploited when it could be FIXED nicely so everyone is happy and can move on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once a nice task reward system   will be     left   without exploit possible but very rewarding as you progress into the crafter part of the game, much more will be happy and this will leave time for sony to fix the ingame market somehow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zeus</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Evadne]

The test server "Communoty" would like to know what "floop" is.Perhaps that would help us.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />~Eva

[foulpla]

Lets give him a break, Engrish is a language too.

[Telad]

<DIV>I think that this is a pretty decent idea and would pry help solve alot of the problems with tradeskilling.  Sorry most people here seem to only be able to only find something to critize you about :smileysad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Teladar on <span class=date_text>03-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:57 AM</span>

[Ay]

<DIV>I don't want to criticize original poster at all. But i need to drop this link cause someone said something about Engrish <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.engrish.com/" target=_blank>http://www.engrish.com/</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dansida]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ayun wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't want to criticize original poster at all. But i need to drop this link cause someone said something about Engrish <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.engrish.com/" target=_blank><STRONG>http://www.engrish.com/</STRONG></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>that is a GREAT site man that i s f.ing hilarious:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:*NICE TO SEE I GOT ONE STARRED FOR VISiTING A SITE AND SAYING IT WAS FUNNY*</DIV> <DIV align=center>  The One Star Ninja Strikes Again</DIV><p>Message Edited by Dansidans on <span class=date_text>03-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:59 PM</span>