Mentoring...

[Spaceweed]

<DIV>Very interesting concept :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=1506" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=1506</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's probably just me, but why do I think this excellent idea is going to exploited to high heaven, by the 'l33t doodz' and powergamers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Might be an idea to list any obvious flaws to this type of system, so the dev's can have an early heads-up from our extremely intelligent and experienced community :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lanily]

<DIV>I think we shouldnt stop or even slow such a great idea because we are afraid from people abusing it. I play this game for myself, with my friends, I dont care if anyone somewhere else becomes more powerful by it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Feedback on risks is great, but don't let them become the cause of a delay.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lani</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.s. Thumbs up for this mentoring thingie - great job.</DIV>

[Scally W]

<DIV>Another game has a similar concept called "side kicking" it has worked out great, and the potential for abuse is much lower than you would think.</DIV>

[Lony]

<DIV> <DIV>This is a brilliant idea I have gained some 10 levels on the rest of my guildies while I have been getting experiences at a fast rate they have been questing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So this would be a great way for me to group with them again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lonynsgirl</DIV> <DIV>39 Wizard</DIV> <DIV>20 sage</DIV></DIV>

[Platfing]

<DIV>This is a great idea.  I only hope, though, that is doesn't slow them from fixing existing bugs and continue balancing the classes (adventure and artisan).  The game at 30+ is bugged to high heaven.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[nuocm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Platfinger wrote:<BR> <DIV>This is a great idea.  I only hope, though, that is doesn't slow them from fixing existing bugs and continue balancing the classes (adventure and artisan).  The game at 30+ is bugged to high heaven.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Exactly.  Instead of fixing issues, SOE keeps taking the constant direction to appease the whinners while nerfing other aspects of the game that doesn't need to be nerfed.  Take the recent changes to the trade skill process.  I mean, how many times are you guys going to change that darn process.  And every time they change it, something else breaks like recipes etc.  It is the worst developement -> production testing I have ever seen.  Its amazing the project managers, applications development team along with their QA Analysts haven't been all fired.  One patch or two fine, but every single patch has had its problems even after going to test-beds; note the worldwide crash.../sigh</P> <P>Now we get this mentoring program.  Recently, a change to the consider system and crafting system, then there was that extremely worthless vitality bar (which "supposidly was always there but there wasn't a GUI for it")  </P> <P>Here's a good idea that everyone previously has posted and is good business ethics:  Fix your<STRONG> current issues </STRONG>before you add more stuff in b/c now you won't know what caused the issues in the first place, was it the  vanilla code, old mods, or the new mods.</P>

[Snikey]

<DIV>**Edit** nevermind reread Dev's post. Was concerned on having to have lower equipment. I see they thought of that <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Snikey on <span class=date_text>02-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:56 AM</span>

[Wasc]

Mentoring has, so far, shown several problems.1. While it claims to drop your level down to that of the person you are mentoring, and the con is that of their level, your effective ability is considerably higher than it would have been at that level.Example: When I was level 11, I couldn't solo a yellow^^ creature. I mentor down to 11 and my teammate just sits and watches, and I can solo one with EASE.2. Buffs cast before you mentor down don't seem to go away. This means you can cast a level 40+ spell, mentor down to level 11, and continue to enjoy it.3. Need health and power after a fight? Simply stop mentoring and start again. Instant full heal, full power.

[Cindersk]

<DIV>This is all you need to understand people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>" The Apprentice will receive an experience bonus while under the guidance of a Mentor. <STRONG>Up to 5 other players can act as a Mentor for a single player at the same time (each increasing the experience bonus</STRONG>)."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can you say Ebay?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll take a side salad, one 50 fury, and one 50 berserker, to go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1 Person getting an xp bonus fueled by 5 otheres that stack?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>are you out of your flippin minds?</DIV>

[aeio]

I can say e-bay... Can you actually make it reasonably applicable to this situation?You see them think that having 5 level 50 players (which would be a huge waste of time), help a lower level to level up to sell on ebay.. will be providing some kind of enormous bonus to the players. They said experience bonus.. But it is highly unlikely it is anywhere near what you think it is.

[Rijacki]

<blockquote><hr>Wascen wrote:Mentoring has, so far, shown several problems.1. While it claims to drop your level down to that of the person you are mentoring, and the con is that of their level, your effective ability is considerably higher than it would have been at that level.Example: When I was level 11, I couldn't solo a yellow^^ creature. I mentor down to 11 and my teammate just sits and watches, and I can solo one with EASE.2. Buffs cast before you mentor down don't seem to go away. This means you can cast a level 40+ spell, mentor down to level 11, and continue to enjoy it.3. Need health and power after a fight? Simply stop mentoring and start again. Instant full heal, full power.<hr></blockquote>This would be an exploit.It could be easily fixed by A) stripping all buffs when mentoring starts and B) having a time limit placed on when you can mentor again once you stop. A time limit of an hour would stop the insta heal exploit but not really hinder real mentoring. Even 30 minutes would be enough to break a mentor-bot.As for the effectiveness, it was stated as equivalent to a filled XP bar of the same level as the mentoree, but I am sure they have a bit more tweaking to do to scale down armor and skills.

[Dimidri]

<DIV>Yeah, it's taking some time from fixes probably, but things ARE being fixed. Look at all of the skill fixes in this patch. It is true though, that half of the fixes aren't really fixes... but... it's a step in the right direction. At the same time, they have to keep adding content, otherwise people will get really bored. That's why MMORPGs take so long to fix, because the devs are very lazy, and because they have to add content as well as fix things to keep people playing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've heard horror stories about level 30+ and I stopped leveling my Brigand after level 29. I'm scared. I wish I wasn't scared of leveling =/</DIV>

[Wasc]

<blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<blockquote><hr>Wascen wrote:Mentoring has, so far, shown several problems.1. While it claims to drop your level down to that of the person you are mentoring, and the con is that of their level, your effective ability is considerably higher than it would have been at that level.Example: When I was level 11, I couldn't solo a yellow^^ creature. I mentor down to 11 and my teammate just sits and watches, and I can solo one with EASE.2. Buffs cast before you mentor down don't seem to go away. This means you can cast a level 40+ spell, mentor down to level 11, and continue to enjoy it.3. Need health and power after a fight? Simply stop mentoring and start again. Instant full heal, full power.<hr></blockquote>This would be an exploit.It could be easily fixed by A) stripping all buffs when mentoring starts and B) having a time limit placed on when you can mentor again once you stop. A time limit of an hour would stop the insta heal exploit but not really hinder real mentoring. Even 30 minutes would be enough to break a mentor-bot.As for the effectiveness, it was stated as equivalent to a filled XP bar of the same level as the mentoree, but I am sure they have a bit more tweaking to do to scale down armor and skills.<hr></blockquote>Quite right. But that's the point of test server, isn't it? To FIND these bugs by trying each and every little thing you can think of that might produce an "exploit," documenting what you tried and what happened as a result, and providing feedback. In this case, I provided feedback in the form of this forum post and an in-game /feedback. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Whett]

So you can essentially 'pretend' to be like level 11 while having 9 billion AC from your level 50 armor? Sounds fun.

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cinderskin wrote:<BR> <DIV>This is all you need to understand people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>" The Apprentice will receive an experience bonus while under the guidance of a Mentor. <STRONG>Up to 5 other players can act as a Mentor for a single player at the same time (each increasing the experience bonus</STRONG>)."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can you say Ebay?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll take a side salad, one 50 fury, and one 50 berserker, to go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1 Person getting an xp bonus fueled by 5 otheres that stack?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>are you out of your flippin minds?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A possible flaw in this power-leveling logic is that anybody would actually want a pre-leveled character.  The reason to play EQ2 seems to be designed more around the process of getting from level to level than in attaining a certain "end game" status.  Everything -- equipment, zones, quests, spells, etc. -- seems to be designed within a bubble or range depending on what your current experience level is.  If you just wanted to skip over that process and travel around in 100 zones that are all gray to you, why even pick up the game to begin with?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People ebayed accounts in EQ1 so they could get into all the end-game zones, of which there are now a massive number, without having to "work" for it, and so they could two-box, often with a healer sidekick to shepherd all of the characters on their main account.  Neither one of those would really seem to apply here.  Trivial loot code, encounter locking and the inability to power-level in the classic sense (chuckle) makes a pre-leveled account much less desirable in my opinion.  But maybe I'm missing something.  I haven't tried two-boxing in EQ2 but I imagine it would be pretty annoying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nuvi]

<DIV>doubt this can be abused much now,considering the fact that it doesnt take that long for a power gamer to hit level 50,this will even out the play fields,but when a new expansion comes out which will set a new max level limit i guess they will/should fix this system if they dont want ppl to break the new max level 2 fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Spaceweed]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wascen wrote:<BR>Mentoring has, so far, shown several problems.<BR><BR>1. While it claims to drop your level down to that of the person you are mentoring, and the con is that of their level, your effective ability is considerably higher than it would have been at that level.<BR><BR>Example: When I was level 11, I couldn't solo a yellow^^ creature. I mentor down to 11 and my teammate just sits and watches, and I can solo one with EASE.<BR><BR>2. Buffs cast before you mentor down don't seem to go away. This means you can cast a level 40+ spell, mentor down to level 11, and continue to enjoy it.<BR><BR>3. Need health and power after a fight? Simply stop mentoring and start again. Instant full heal, full power.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is the type of feedback we should be looking at, Was :smileywink:</P> <P>The idea of this thread, is for testers to report how they find it so far, and what tweaks need to be made before it goes live.  I was under the impression that the dev's were against powerleveling <maybe I read wrong>, and if they don't drop the effect of a higher level char to the required 'power' of their 'pupil', then it is purely this.</P> <P>It is a great idea, but only if implemented properly imo.<BR></P>

[markdevox]

<DIV>This is more likely to be abused to power level the mentor than their apprentices.  Anyone could two-box a newbie toon, and effectively use mentoring to ding their way to 50 very quickly in newbie zones.  Hey presto, a game full of high end noobs, and a complete devaluation of any sense of accomplishment from hitting 50, resulting in the people who did it the hard way being quite fed up about the situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mentoring should be of no special benefit to either the mentor or the apprentice exp-wise.. it should purely be a means to pass on expertise or group with friends to help them out.</DIV>

[Gladesto]

<DIV>City of heroes any one?Cant soe come up with ther own ideas ).</DIV>

[vladsamier1]

<DIV>Well, from past expierence I can say I have powerleveled friends in the past to get them to the level i was in the game so we could play together.  I think that is what this mentoring thing is meant to do.  If you are level 50 and you just get a friend to join the game you don't want to have to wait on them forever just to group with them.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think with a couple of bugs worked out this will be a great feature.  I got a question for the guys on test, how low does a person have to be before you can mentor them?  Could a group of 5 50's get together and, for a lack of better words, powerlevel a 49 with an xp bonus?</DIV>

[markdevox]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vladsamier135 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, from past expierence I can say I have powerleveled friends in the past to get them to the level i was in the game so we could play together.  I think that is what this mentoring thing is meant to do.  If you are level 50 and you just get a friend to join the game you don't want to have to wait on them forever just to group with them.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think with a couple of bugs worked out this will be a great feature.  I got a question for the guys on test, how low does a person have to be before you can mentor them?  Could a group of 5 50's get together and, for a lack of better words, powerlevel a 49 with an xp bonus?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I can understand that everyone wants to play in their own way and we all pay to play but personally I hope I never have to group with someone who's been powerlevelled in the way you describe.  It's much more enjoyable to group with people who have had lots of practice playing their role properly instead of relying on others to run the fight for them.  Powerlevelled toons mostly (not always) tend to be, well, kinda lame.

[Aladiah]

<DIV>I'm not playing on the test server but I'd like to say that I think mentoring is really a great idea. I hope it will be up on Storm as soon as possible !</DIV>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wascen wrote:<BR>Mentoring has, so far, shown several problems.<BR><BR>1. While it claims to drop your level down to that of the person you are mentoring, and the con is that of their level, your effective ability is considerably higher than it would have been at that level.<BR><BR>Example: When I was level 11, I couldn't solo a yellow^^ creature. I mentor down to 11 and my teammate just sits and watches, and I can solo one with EASE.<BR><BR>2. Buffs cast before you mentor down don't seem to go away. This means you can cast a level 40+ spell, mentor down to level 11, and continue to enjoy it.<BR><BR>3. Need health and power after a fight? Simply stop mentoring and start again. Instant full heal, full power.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>So is 1 because of 2, or a completely separate problem?<BR>

[Althena]

To The "city of heroes" remark...COH's system is actually worse, and actually does ruin the game, its more geared to power leveling, as your "sidekick" becomes more like your level instead of you becoming their's. Effectively eliminating all lower end content. I like the Mentor system as listed. Maintains the integrity of content across levels which is good.

[Wasc]

<blockquote><hr>Miral wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Wascen wrote:<BR>Mentoring has, so far, shown several problems.<BR><BR>1. While it claims to drop your level down to that of the person you are mentoring, and the con is that of their level, your effective ability is considerably higher than it would have been at that level.<BR><BR>Example: When I was level 11, I couldn't solo a yellow^^ creature. I mentor down to 11 and my teammate just sits and watches, and I can solo one with EASE.<BR><BR>2. Buffs cast before you mentor down don't seem to go away. This means you can cast a level 40+ spell, mentor down to level 11, and continue to enjoy it.<BR><BR>3. Need health and power after a fight? Simply stop mentoring and start again. Instant full heal, full power.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So is 1 because of 2, or a completely separate problem?<BR><hr></blockquote>You know, that's a very good question. I never did try dropping ALL buffs off entirely, mentoring someone, and then re-buffing at the lower level to attempt combat. I imagine it could be different, and will go give that a try right now.

[Sim]

what happens to the stats on your equipment when you mentor?

[Tethe]

<DIV>-------</DIV> <DIV>To The "city of heroes" remark...<BR><BR><BR>COH's system is actually worse, and actually does ruin the game, its more geared to power leveling, as your "sidekick" becomes more like your level instead of you becoming their's. Effectively eliminating all lower end content. I like the Mentor system as listed. Maintains the integrity of content across levels which is good.</DIV> <DIV>--------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually CoH has a mentoring system, which lowers your level to match a lower leveled player.  It was probably added just after you quit playing it, but it's definately there now, and has been for months and months.  ^^</DIV>

[Evadne]

I do play on Test.I am a level 33 shaman. I was 32 today. But I didn't play as 32. I wandered between mentoring a level 17 in the group and a level 22 in the group. We did guild quests, Access quests...and generally had an absolute blast. There are still some bugs and exploits in mentoring. Everyone is feedbacking that. Every person in the group whose real level varied from 17, 20, 22, 29, 32 and 35, all leveled. We wiped out once, and so it wasn't fearless adventuring.Mentoring is great. I played with my friends today, no matter the level. No shortage of things to do.I hope they only change a few things. I think when you mentor "on" it should wipe your buffs. When you mentor "off" you should have to zone for it to take effect--bummer but it solves problems. The bummer is, deep in Fallengate, when we all needed an AFK one of the higher levels would turn off mentor and the mobs would grey out be be safe. But while thats a bummer, it is also somewhat unfair. The mentor switch regens health and power currently, another exploit that will be fixed.All and all there is everything to love about this function. Yay Scott and the Dev team. This one rocks.~Eva

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>No, I dont play on Test, but guys, thankyou for the hard work, and for finding the bugs involved in the system, it seems like an excellent idea, I would love to be able to play my main with my gfs cahracter (she is fairly new, 20 lvls under me) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope that they can get the bugs yall find worked out,  keep up the great work.</DIV>

[CerraWhisperwind]

I would suggest the following:1. When you mentor/unmentor you keep the same percentage of power and health you had before.2. Make it impossible to unmentor during an encounter.3. Make mobs that are normally not grey to you still aggro when greyed out by higher levels in your group. Truthfully, the ability to grey out mobs for others is exploited as it is (should someone across the zone keep mobs from attacking you deep in Nektulos?).4. As suggested before, remove all buffs, debuffs, and pets (all maintained abilities) when mentoring. This would not include buffs and debuffs that were placed by others, only the ones personally created and maintained, regardless of target.

[Lonw]

In dungeons, allow mentoring to only be turned on at the entrance. You can turn it off later if you wish even during combat, but have to return to the entrance (a safe area, where you can begin your teachings without interruptions) to re-enable mentoring.Actually, only allowing enabling mentoring at the ZI to any zone would fix a lot of issues...

[PinchyWonka]

<DIV>So what about apprentices turning off exp so that the Mentor gets to level forever in one spot?</DIV>

[markdevox]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PinchyWonka wrote:<BR> <DIV>So what about apprentices turning off exp so that the Mentor gets to level forever in one spot?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yep all the apprentice needs to do is switch off experience for the mentor to ding from their level onwards right up to 50 without having to fight anywhere but for that easy stress-free newbie zone.  Macro'd level 50 toons aplenty inc!!  Lazy and selfish level 50 players who can't play the high end game inc!!</P> <P>They should disable "per kill" experience for the mentor so that this is prevented.  Only quests should give the mentor experience.  </P> <P>The apprentice should get experience from the kills and sure, even an exp bonus.  But their maximum level as a mentor should be capped at say, 75% of the mentors level.  That would prevent powerlevelling to a certain degree.</P> <P>Am I the only person here who WANTS the game to be challenging and for it to be an ardous task to hit 50?</P>

[markdevox]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evadne wrote:<BR>I do play on Test.<BR><BR>I am a level 33 shaman. I was 32 today. But I didn't play as 32. I wandered between mentoring a level 17 in the group and a level 22 in the group. We did guild quests, Access quests...and generally had an absolute blast. There are still some bugs and exploits in mentoring. Everyone is feedbacking that. Every person in the group whose real level varied from 17, 20, 22, 29, 32 and 35, all leveled. We wiped out once, and so it wasn't fearless adventuring.<BR><BR>Mentoring is great. I played with my friends today, no matter the level. No shortage of things to do.<BR><BR><BR>I hope they only change a few things. I think when you mentor "on" it should wipe your buffs. When you mentor "off" you should have to zone for it to take effect--bummer but it solves problems. The bummer is, deep in Fallengate, when we all needed an AFK one of the higher levels would turn off mentor and the mobs would grey out be be safe. But while thats a bummer, it is also somewhat unfair. The mentor switch regens health and power currently, another exploit that will be fixed.<BR><BR>All and all there is everything to love about this function. Yay Scott and the Dev team. This one rocks.<BR><BR>~Eva<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Please can you confirm something?  Were you getting exp from kills any quicker than at your "real level"?  I.e. how many yellow bubbles an hour were you getting as a "17 mentor" compared to how many you'd normally get in a group at 32?<BR></P>

[Spaceweed]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> markdevox wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PinchyWonka wrote:<BR> <DIV>So what about apprentices turning off exp so that the Mentor gets to level forever in one spot?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yep all the apprentice needs to do is switch off experience for the mentor to ding from their level onwards right up to 50 without having to fight anywhere but for that easy stress-free newbie zone.  Macro'd level 50 toons aplenty inc!!  Lazy and selfish level 50 players who can't play the high end game inc!!</P> <P>They should disable "per kill" experience for the mentor so that this is prevented.  Only quests should give the mentor experience.  </P> <P>The apprentice should get experience from the kills and sure, even an exp bonus.  But their maximum level as a mentor should be capped at say, 75% of the mentors level.  That would prevent powerlevelling to a certain degree.</P> <P>Am I the only person here who WANTS the game to be challenging and for it to be an ardous task to hit 50?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Good point.</P> <P>When I played in DAoC, I lost count of the times towards the end of my time, when I would get the response from an invited char, 'bear with me, I just bought this account from Eb*y!'.</P> <P>I really hope this game doesn't go the same way.  I am very surprised this idea <although excellent>, is being patched to the live servers so quickly, without examining 'all' avenues of possible exploitation.</P>

[Spaceweed]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Hmm, this site is acting very strangely today..</BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Spaceweed on <span class=date_text>02-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:09 AM</span>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CerraWhisperwind wrote:<BR>I would suggest the following:<BR>1. When you mentor/unmentor you keep the same percentage of power and health you had before.<BR>2. Make it impossible to unmentor during an encounter.<BR>3. Make mobs that are normally not grey to you still aggro when greyed out by higher levels in your group. Truthfully, the ability to grey out mobs for others is exploited as it is (should someone across the zone keep mobs from attacking you deep in Nektulos?).<BR>4. As suggested before, remove all buffs, debuffs, and pets (all maintained abilities) when mentoring. This would not include buffs and debuffs that were placed by others, only the ones personally created and maintained, regardless of target.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> couldn't find anything to add here..... 

[CerraWhisperwind]

<blockquote><hr>PinchyWonka wrote:<DIV>So what about apprentices turning off exp so that the Mentor gets to level forever in one spot?</div><hr></blockquote>This is a non-issue, they said that the lower level has to have exp turned on in order to be mentored.

[Althena]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tethers wrote:<BR> <DIV>-------</DIV> <DIV>To The "city of heroes" remark...<BR><BR><BR>COH's system is actually worse, and actually does ruin the game, its more geared to power leveling, as your "sidekick" becomes more like your level instead of you becoming their's. Effectively eliminating all lower end content. I like the Mentor system as listed. Maintains the integrity of content across levels which is good.</DIV> <DIV>--------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually CoH has a mentoring system, which lowers your level to match a lower leveled player.  It was probably added just after you quit playing it, but it's definately there now, and has been for months and months.  ^^</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Thats cool to hear thanks for the update, and yep that is good then! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but... I still think the sidekick way is bad (do they still have that) well lets not bog down this thread with coh talk heeh, sorry about that.<BR>

[markdevox]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CerraWhisperwind wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PinchyWonka wrote:<BR> <DIV>So what about apprentices turning off exp so that the Mentor gets to level forever in one spot?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>This is a non-issue, they said that the lower level has to have exp turned on in order to be mentored.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ah thats good, that addresses part of the problem but not entirely. Once the mentored character grays out the zone mobs it would be easy for someone to create a new alt character, level it up to 10, then set a "mentor macro" going all over again.</P> <P>My concern wasn't so much about the macros though, as about the fact it encourages people to just stick to newbie zones for a quicker route to 50, resulting in incompetent players who haven't invested any real time or effort into the deeper game.  Perhaps SOE should introduce a "rule free" server for that kind of person, where exploits and macros etc are permitted.  Personally I don't want to be grouped with any high end characters who play like they're level 15 because that's the only playing style they know.</P> <P>Maybe I'm being overly doubtful about this because people surely wouldn't spend all their time in the newbie zones.  Human nature would make people want to branch out and explore?  Hmmm.. then again, if someone can keep dinging through every level all the way up to 50 at the same speed as they could ding up through their teen levels, that's a pretty good incentive to always be a noob till 50.</P> <P>I guess the proof of this pudding will be when we've got to swallow it and get the nasty aftertaste!</P>

[Saeldar]

A few suggestion...1-Remove any XP bonus from the apprentice, they should get normal XP...I don't like the idea of powerleveling...I think the idea is to play with friends...not PL friends. Also if there is bonus to being mentored...it might make grouping with normal players of your level a lot less attractive. Also being with a higher level friend...you probably will benefit from his experience and knowledge of the game gaining XP faster anyways.2- Mentors should not make XP or very, very little...at least nowhere near what they would get normally. I don't think mentoring should be desired because it's providing XP...but because it's allowing you to play with friends.Other then that, it essentially fixing the exploits...removes all buffs, pets etc when you switch to mentor, I like the idea of the switch being available only at zone in..or certain area only to prevent mentors switching on and off...about to loose a big fight.../mentor off become level 50 again and destroy all the mobs...All in all, awesome feature.

[gamblorrr]

i agree with vald ... we dont want this to be a way for people to bypass playing higher level content. can some soe guy address this? because if you can easily get up to level 50 by hanging around antonica it will ruin the game for everyone.little to no xp for the mentor .. i mean .. if hes a mentor, why would he get stronger by going back to fighting rats?

[TinckTrink]

<DIV>This is awesome that now I can play with my wife again.  I outleveled her pretty quickly and she quit at level 14.  I remember trying to help her with a quest when I was 25 or so and it wouldn't let me since the encounter was trivial.  Now, even at 47, i can mentor her and help her kill those rat scouts in the Commonlands.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is excellent for husband/wifes, father's/children, etc were one person plays a lot more than the other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[markdevox]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TinckTrinket wrote:<BR> <DIV>This is awesome that now I can play with my wife again.  I outleveled her pretty quickly and she quit at level 14.  I remember trying to help her with a quest when I was 25 or so and it wouldn't let me since the encounter was trivial.  Now, even at 47, i can mentor her and help her kill those rat scouts in the Commonlands.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is excellent for husband/wifes, father's/children, etc were one person plays a lot more than the other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Agree absolutely with that, it's a great idea for such situations.  For genuine people like yourself I'm sure you wouldn't mind your exp being put on hold whilst you mentor someone else you want to play the game with.

[Shadowthor]

<DIV>I like where this idea is going, it might get my wife to play again.  My only issue (and I may have missed it) would be the xp.  In reality, why give an xp bonus to the apprentice or anyone.  If a mob cons yellow to a lvl 20 then the xp should be equivilent to that of the said mob.  Instead of modifying the xp for the apprentice it should be modified for the mentor.  I don't think the mentor should get nothing for his time but say give them 80% xp equivelent to their level.  Remember this xp is NOT a bonus.  It would actually be a penalty but not one that's game breaking... you could even adjust the xp that the mentor gains based on the level of the apprentice.   I mean if I spend time to kill a mob that would be grey to me then I'm investing my time into it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I understand this correctly - the Mentor's level should be moved down to that of the lower level apprentice.  Both would win in this situation and you would eliminate powerlevling because the mentor's adjusted lvl would be that of a lvl 20 fighter/priest/etc... and his/her xp would only be 80% (or lower).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my two cents...</DIV>

[Kalyndr]

<DIV>Powerleveling...powerleveling...blah blah blah. Do you people, who are soooo scared of this happening, not realize that without this system their are already plenty of lvl 50 characters up for sale on Ebay, IGE and other such sites? This mentor system does not change that...it was bound to happen anyway and HAS happened. But for you and the REST OF US who play the game as it is intended, this is a HUGE improvement for us all, and I refuse to see it [Removed for Content]'ed because God forbid someone somewhere might use it for powerlvling. So what? That doesnt change your enjoyment of the game, nor mine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What this does do is two things:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Increases overall sale of the game for SOE. You and three friends play. You all want a fourth buddy, Buddy X, to start playing with you as well. Problem is you are all lvl 30 and he just joined the game. You cant play with him anyway, so he has no incentive to purchase EQ2 and play with you since you will continue to level and he will never catch up. The mentor system as it stands right now fixes this and alllows you to play with him, teach him the ropes of the game, and with the XP allows him to eventually catch up to you all so you can ALL play together at lvl 30. This is a total win for game sales and longevity (which is a bonus for us as players)!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) With the XP bonus (at a lower lvl than what the apprentice is getting) for mentors it allows them to help friends and or guildmates in completing quests and experience, but doesnt completely penalize them for doing so. It still allows them to gain some XP for themselves.  Most people want to see their characters advance, and I fear by taking out earning XP for the mentors (as some have suggested) it takes away any incentive for them to help out their friends because it hurts their character. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE and devs...this system is an excellent idea and I cant wait to see it go into full implementation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with fixing the heal/mana exploit and not allowing the group to keep the current higher lvl buffs (if this can be done without breaking/bugging something else), but otherwise I like the system as implemented and my guild cant wait for it to come to live.</DIV>

[Morind]

There seems to be alot of concern with people hanging out in noob zones to Lvl 50. What the hell is the point in that? Sure, I suppose I could kill brokenskull pawns for 50 levels, but I'd much rather fight my way across EL / Zek, Feerott, Everfrost, and Lavastorm. However, I also like the idea that I can go group with my daughter, have a blast, and eventually get her caught back up to where I am. Then we can go do MY content together. There is no drive to reach the end-game like there was with EQLive. With that, the end-game was pretty much everything. I don't really see that as being the case with EQ2.

[brow27]

The devs did state that while the mentor will gain XP, it will not be as much as they would at their own level, so it's not like someone can just find a good leveling spot and get to 50 as a mentor, it doesn't work like that. Why would you want to anyway? You aren't going to get good money/gear drops at low levels.

[HanktheDwarf]

I play on the Test Server. I mentored last night. I was a lvl 22 mentoring down to 18. My wife was 22 mentoring down to 15. The mentor gets a 25% xp penalty.

[Ada]

<DIV>A 25% penalty based on what?  If you are level 22, mentoring a level 15, and you fight a mob who is even (level 15), does the mentor get 75% of the experience they would have received for a level 22 mob (even to the mentor) or 75% of the experience they would have received  for a level 15 mob?  I hope it's the latter, with that 25% "lost" experience going to the apprentice.</DIV>

[Yama Seish]

I tend to agree with Kalyndrel in this issue. What follows is an explanation of why mentors should receive compensation in the form of xp, above the already great feature of being able to group with one's friends.The problems not related to bugs in this new system have been put like this:1-Players may be able to reach high-level content without ever leaving low-level content.2-Players may reach high-level content without sufficient effort spent in low-level content.We could call (1) easy-leveling and (2) fast-leveling. I do not want to call this power-leveling, because it suggests the use of exploits in order to gain an unfair adventage over all other players or classes.So what lies at the root of the problem with easy-leveling? People are arguing that players will be able to stay in very low-level zones and rack up xp all the way to maximum level. They claim that this is unfair because every other high-level player had to go through much more difficult experiences to get to the same level. Conclusion? Disallow xp gains for players that mentor lower levels.Now I will answer this objection.This problem may arise only if the quantity of xp gained by fighting low-level creatures is comparable to that gained by fighting high-level creatures. In other words, there is a problem only if the "mentors" gain similar amount of xp fighting alongside the "apprentice" as they would gain by fighting alongside players of their same level.If the xp gained by mentoring is significantly reduced then problem 1 disappears entirely. Why? Because the time that it would take to reach high levels would be absurdly long. If it takes x10 the time needed to reach lvl 50, do you think anyone in their sane mind would choose that route, only because it is "easier" content? And if anyone did, by the time they had made lvl 50 everyone else would be level 65,75, 100, or whatever the new level limit will be with expansions. It is just not a viable way to make it to high-level if "mentoring" gives comparatively little xp.More problems with this argument:Money/Loot/Companions/Experience: A player that mentors to level 50 would lack resources to access that high-level content. They would have no money (unless they are tradeskillers too), no gear, no spells, no friends on that level range. In short, they would be a naked lvl 50. Again, do you think anyone would want to spend loads of time seeing the same old content, getting no worthy loot, making no friends that will help them in their high-level adventuring and completely clueless about how to play their class except against lvl 10-20 content? I doubt too many people can be that short-sighted: they would get nowhere once they made it to high level.So, even if xp gains were similar when "mentoring" and when not "mentoring", the result is a pretty much unplayable character at high levels. I think that reducing the amount of xp received when "mentoring" would be the best solution. It would stop the exploit of problem (1) and would give an incentive to higher levels to adventure with friends, other than the incentive in teaming up with friends.Why give xp to "Mentors"? Here's why:Players need incentives to spend time in the game. Rewards are necessary to keep the players entertained and immersed in the world. Rewards are calculated versus the effort and risk that a player takes. What are the rewards of "mentoring"?First, helping and adventuring with friends. Good, noble idea this is. It will help people revisit old content with their friends, family or guild. Now, if this is the only incentive to the drawbacks of "mentoring", would it be enough to encourage use of this feature? No, it will not.Why would high level players sacrifice time, loot and questing of their own category only to team with a lower level friend? Yes, there are cases where this would be done, and gladly so, but it will be a relatively small factor in the life of players. Instead of this, players would create an alt and get rewarded appropriately while adventuring with their lower-level friends. Nobody wants to spend valuable effort and take risks for little "material" reward on a regular basis. "Mentoring" would be something done in spurts, ocassionally, but not regularly, by any means. Again, why should players take on risks (low level mobs can kill you now) and time expense for loot that is irrelevant to them, experience that is non-existent to them and quests that are way below the level of complexity for what they are accostumed? Only because they can team with friends? Alts, here we come, at least we feel some sense of individual accomplishment other than adventuring with our dear ones.Problem (2) Fast-leveling What are the underlying reasons to consider fast-leveling a problem?First, it may be unfair to players that do not have high-level friends to perform as "mentors" to them. Second, it depends on what "fast" translates into game-time."Fast-leveling" is not class-biased. Everyone has the same chance to receive bonus xp if they have someone to "mentor" them. The drawback of this is that high-level guilds will be able to get their lower level players up the scale quicker than what non-guilded players can achieve in the same time.Solution? It is up to the player to make friends with higher level characters, join or create a guild to facilitate their leveling.Second problem: How much game time saving does "fast-leveling" really mean when in-game? This is an issue of mechanics best left to the developers. It should not be fast enough to chew through lvl 1 to lvl 50 content too quickly. At the same time, it should not be slow enough that the "mentored" players see no difference in their leveling rate. Why? because who would seek to bother their high-level friends with adventuring that is sub-par to them only for a minimal gain in the leveling of the "mentored"? Why would one delay the progress of the high-level friends if no perceptible gain is achieved? Do you want to team with your friends? Ok, have them make an alt, one can grind xp or make a guild of one's own level range. We are again in the same scenario as in that given in problem (1)."Fast-leveling" needs to be a possibility, albeit one that does not discriminate greatly between people who have available "mentors" and those who do not. Also, it must not allow for an advance so quick that creates a bottleneck of top-level players cluttering the whole server.Suggestions:1- Reduce xp gains of "mentors". Make these proportional to the level of the encounters met (a lvl 50 mentoring a lvl 20 fighting lvl 20 content should get much less xp than if he is mentoring a lvl 35 fighting lvl 35 content, for example.) This would also help any chance of exploiting problem (1). If at lvl 40 hunting lvl 10 mobs does not give hardly any xp, nobody is going to exploit the "easier" low-level areas when they could be having much better chances of loot/xp in their own tier of experience.2- Enable xp gains of "apprentices" at a rate that does not throw level-growth balance off the scale yet perceptible enough to encourage "mentoring." Let same class "mentor-apprentice" pairs give more bonus xp than different class' couplings (this may also rise some problems: popular classes will level faster than unpopular classes, but at the same time it would create more interesting play styles: how does a group of 5 enchanters mentor an extra enchanter without constantly dying because they lack healing/tanks) Enable slightly higher xp bonus per level of "mentor" over lvl of "apprentice". Why? to encourage those high-level people to help out their lower level friends, thereby giving them an incentive to play their high-end classes, who already spend hours looking for raids that are not "guild-only".Thank you for reading through this long post. I think that such a good idea as "mentoring" deserves a lot of attention. The expectation in the live servers is very present, one can constantly hear about this idea coming live. I would recommend that its virtues be highlighted and its shortcomings be ironed-out, because its implementation will either confirm the high expectations, or toss the idea into the "it-could-have-been-so-good" bin. Keep the great ideas coming.Peace

[Lumen]

<DIV>They have got this idea from another MMO, or at least someone has. CoH did "sidekick", but instead of the high LVL fighting lower LVL mobs they allowed the lower LVL to fight higher ones with the Mentorer. I thought this was a good idea, but exploitable. Or at least allowing people to LVL faster then the game was intended. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Question to ask all the high LVL players is how they would like to go back and fight the low LVL mobs after spending all that time getting to a high LVL. I think I would say "NOT"!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Lumenus</DIV>

[Blindrage]

<P>There is gonna be newbs everywhere, weather they are fighting lvl 50 mobs or lvl 10, newbs are newbs, content doesn't change them.  There is going to be people like me who will use this for pl'ing my alts/friends, and there is going to be people who use it for other means..quests, playing with friends...etc...who really gives two [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]s one way or another.  Its an awesome feature for both sides of the fence.  Can't wait to see it hit live.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Blindrage</P>

[Kyriel]

<DIV>Yep i agree, mentoring is a great idea. Those of us who actually wanna hellp friends finish quests do writs at the same lvl with our guilds this is an awesome add to the game. Cant wait for it to hit live.</DIV>

[StGabri]

Here's what I want to know:Can you mentor before turning in a quest to then get xps for that quest as though you completed it at the appropriate level? If so, that is highly exploitable. Players will simply always mentor a level 1 before they turn in a quest to get max xps.I am both excited about the possibilities of this change and very, very worried about the potential for exploiting. I hope we all realize that exploiting to quick levels is a <i>bad thing</i> as it trivializes what accomplishment there is in this game.It sounds like a really nifty idea. I just hope they get all the kinks worked out before it hits live.StGabe.

[Cindersk]

<DIV>welcome to lineage 2 folks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>expect an already unhealthy 350k subscriber base in this game (WOW has 700K+)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to drop like a stone when the botter are given yet another advantage to exploit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what fun is the end game when bots teams are camping all your zones and spawns?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lineage 2 my friends.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>can we not learn from the mistakes of our forefathers?</DIV>

[Namil]

<DIV>I too think this is both good and bad. I am going to love being able to play with my wife who I am 12 levels above, being able to help her and do more things together. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I have read in other threads leveling is easy or hard based on the person. Leveling for someone that groups and plays 3-5 hours a day is going to be easier then someone who solos and chooses to only play 1 or 2 hours a day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally feel leveling is going very fast for the population as a whole. Wish I could search the servers by levels to see exact numbers. I think mentoring may make leveling even easier as it is now. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mentoring already provides many bonuses without the added bonus xp or the mentor getting normal xp gains for lesser level mobs.  When I choose to mentor my wife I will be helping her level, do quests and writs she normally can not do alone. Since mentoring is a group oriented function I can now group with any guildie and assist them with doing anything. Mentoring already breaks the level barriers and allows me to help anyone at any time. With Mentoring you can now create any group at any time with the character you want and this makes grouping easier. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The incentive to mentoring is to help your family,friends or guild members. A level 40 player should not be able to gain the same xp by mentoring a level 20 character and killing level 20 mobs as if he was in a group killing level 40 mobs. Level 20 mobs and level 40 mobs are extremely different in stats and combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Day]

<DIV>Question from someone that is NOT on the test server.<BR> <BR>My small guild is very interested in Mentoring. Currently we have several players that cannot play as often as others, we have currently been resolving this by having those of us that play more often turn combat XP off for long periods of time, in fact I have had it turned off for the last month.<BR> <BR>Mentoring seems to be a wonderful idea that would allow us to level as we please, however still be able to do guild events with our guildmates.<BR> <BR>Ok, on to the question.<BR> <BR>When you have a spell that is higher level than the player you are mentoring, does it grey out? can you easily tell which spells you can cast and which you cannot.<BR> <BR>Thanks<BR> <BR>And thanks for the feedback you are giving the devs, a lot of us players that are NOT interested in exploiting this but using it as intended can hardly wait to see it implemented.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Blindrage]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cinderskin wrote:<BR> <DIV>welcome to lineage 2 folks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>expect an already unhealthy 350k subscriber base in this game (WOW has 700K+)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to drop like a stone when the botter are given yet another advantage to exploit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what fun is the end game when bots teams are camping all your zones and spawns?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lineage 2 my friends.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>can we not learn from the mistakes of our forefathers?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Sounds like WoW needs to have 700,001</P> <P>/bye</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Blindrage</P>

[CerraWhisperwind]

<blockquote><hr>Dayln wrote:<DIV>Question from someone that is NOT on the test server.<BR> <BR>My small guild is very interested in Mentoring. Currently we have several players that cannot play as often as others, we have currently been resolving this by having those of us that play more often turn combat XP off for long periods of time, in fact I have had it turned off for the last month.<BR> <BR>Mentoring seems to be a wonderful idea that would allow us to level as we please, however still be able to do guild events with our guildmates.<BR> <BR>Ok, on to the question.<BR> <BR>When you have a spell that is higher level than the player you are mentoring, does it grey out? can you easily tell which spells you can cast and which you cannot.<BR> <BR>Thanks<BR> <BR>And thanks for the feedback you are giving the devs, a lot of us players that are NOT interested in exploiting this but using it as intended can hardly wait to see it implemented.<BR></div><DIV> </div><DIV> </div><hr></blockquote>Spells you cannot use are red.

[Speak]

<DIV>I think the main reason they are putting this system in is so people who have leveled very fast can now grow up Alt's and this will keep the L-45+ group from leaving due to lack of major high end content.  These people will have the resources to equip newbie alt and and with the help of friends and guild member can, and yes i will use the word, powerlevel their Alt's very fast.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQL waited a number of years to dumb down that game.  Seems with all the recent changes, EQ2 is going for that at the start.</DIV>

[Alis]

<DIV>So how does the debt work on death? If you have say a lvl50 mentoring a lvl20 and the lvl50 dies is the debt for the group based on the lvl20?</DIV>

[Malkant]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>Ok, I'm not on test and very interested in the mentoring system.  From what I have peiced together from reading over feedback from 3 pages of tester feedback I'm come to this conclusion of what are some of the main fears about this system... and the solutions or reasons why it'll work.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#3333ff><U>Fears in blue</U>    </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00><U>Answers in Green</U></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#3333ff>#1  People will power level characters and the server will be</FONT><FONT color=#3333ff> flooded with high end characters that aren't as experienced at the high end game as a normal player that worked up to that level is.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3333ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><STRONG>Answer #1:  In eq2, other people's levels have nothing to do with you or your character for the most part.  It will not screw up the economy because of the attune equipment system and the other systems they have to keep the economy stabe.  So there is no need to worry about that.  And if someone at high levs is inexperienced then you do what you normally do..... don't group with them.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3333ff><STRONG>#2  The newbie zones will be flooded with high lev characters and you won't be able to hunt in them because people will be powerleveling and mentoring their friends/alts/whatever.  </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3333ff><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><STRONG>Answer #2:  Did everyone forget about the instancing of zones when they reach a certain number of players?  Did you guys forget that when the commonlands or nektulos has alot of players in it it'll create Nektulos 2, Nektulos 3 and so on.  This is in place for the newbie zones as well such as "the ruins" or "sunken city".  There is no need to worry about overcrowding..</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0033ff><STRONG>#3  All these bugs and exploits are gonna ruin the game....  </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0033ff><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><STRONG>Answer #3:  No they won't... it's still in testing and will be pretty much fixed as it hits the normal servers.  XP will be reasonable and the scaling down of equipment will be fixed accordingly.  </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cc0000>This system will be an awesome implementation once fixed and I applaud SOE for their creativity.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600>Malkantar Orzylith</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600>29th Season Warlock</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600>Guild Master of Peteys Pub N Grill</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600>pub.eq2guilds.org</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600>Antonia Bayle Server</FONT></STRONG></DIV></DIV>

[Day]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are putting this in for the exact reason our guild loves the idea.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have a group of 12 players that play at different rates, and we want to hunt and enjoy quests with each other and help each other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As it is now we have alts of different levels, what we would rather do is play with our Mains, but scale to each other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mentoring is a fantastic idea, I could care less if they made it so the Mentors get no XP, I would still love it.</DIV>

[cr0wangel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nuvian wrote:<BR> <DIV>doubt this can be abused much now,considering the fact that it doesnt take that long for a power gamer to hit level 50,this will even out the play fields,but when a new expansion comes out which will set a new max level limit i guess they will/should fix this system if they dont want ppl to break the new max level 2 fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I am not on the test server, but what is this new max level limit? The levels will go beyond 50? <BR>

[Fragzzt]

<DIV>***Question to ask all the high LVL players is how they would like to go back and fight the low LVL mobs after spending all that time getting to a high LVL. I think I would say "NOT"!!!****</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, I look it more as you either get a friend to play the game, meet someone in your guild that you want to help, etc etc.  Why would SOE make it so that you can make them insta 50, and take a level 1 into a level 50 area?  THAT makes no sense to me.  And since the people THIS IS AIMED FOR are going to be friends / guildmates / in game friends etc etc,  the higher level person will more then likely not have a big problem with going 'backwards' to *gasp* help a friend / play the game with a friend.  OMG what a CONCEPT!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am TOTALLY more for this way then the other.  Although, people are always looking for loopholes and such, so the people this is actually aimed for, will somehow have to suffer for the people out there looking for the easy route.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to the EQ2 sucks as it 'only' has 300k plus subscribers, can you PLEASE explain how CoH is surviving with a 1/3 that, how EQ1 has been going pretty strong since '99 with 'only' 400k some at their max???  How in god's name are these other games making it!?!??!?!  According to you, they shouldnt even be able to afford their light bills it sounds like!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*edit* *** <P>Sounds like WoW needs to have 700,001</P> <P>/bye***</P> <P>BTW I agree with this.. If you hate EQ2 / SOE sooooo much, why again are you here?  And why worry about what's going to be added anyways.</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Fragzzt on <span class=date_text>03-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:44 AM</span>

[Aion]

I don't understand why there should be ANY bonus xp in the mentoring system at all. Is this so that higher levels can group with lowers - friends can play together regardless of how often they play, or is this to powerlevel? ANY xp bonus = powerlevel, regardless of what spin you want to put on it.I love the idea, but don't think the XP bonus should be included and I also think that one should only be able to be mentored by someone of the same archetype.Just makes sense to me.

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aion wrote:<BR>I don't understand why there should be ANY bonus xp in the mentoring system at all. Is this so that higher levels can group with lowers - friends can play together regardless of how often they play, or is this to powerlevel? ANY xp bonus = powerlevel, regardless of what spin you want to put on it.<BR><BR>I love the idea, but don't think the XP bonus should be included and I also think that one should only be able to be mentored by someone of the same archetype.<BR><BR>Just makes sense to me.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I'll admit I'm still not sure either why there is a bonus to experience while being mentored.  To me, the bonus is that you get to group and gain experience with players you would never have been able to do so with due to level differences.  I also really like the idea that only a fighter can properly mentor a fighter, only a scout can mentor a scout.  A very good suggestion, but I expect it would reduce the opportunities to mentor and be mentored to almost nil.</P> <P>Maybe a compromise:  what if the experience <STRONG>bonus </STRONG>only takes effect when the mentor and the apprentice are of the same archetype?</P> <P> </P>

[CerraWhisperwind]

The exp bonus on the lower level is to hurry them along towards the higher level. This limits botters as the lower level doesn't stay lower as long and helps friends catch up to each other so they can play together normally.

[Yalerya]

<DIV>Anyone know if the mentoring system can be used on raids ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Egro</DIV>

[Talaga]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CerraWhisperwind wrote:<BR>The exp bonus on the lower level is to hurry them along towards the higher level. This limits botters as the lower level doesn't stay lower as long and helps friends catch up to each other so they can play together normally.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT size=2>So, what you're saying is that the only reason they're giving the apprentice an xp bonus is to allow for powerleveling.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Thanks for clearing that up. :smileyvery-happy:</FONT></P>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>Yes,  exactly,  but what is wrong with powerleveling?  by having alot of incompetant lvl 50 players,  I have that many more idiots to laugh at who get their butts handed to them by mobs that should have been signifigantly easier</DIV>

[Cindersk]

<DIV>whos laughing jeff when those idiots find there way into your raid or group and die- getting you a nice fat shared xp debt =-0</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a fine IDEA but without properly safeguarded implementation will have IGE and its brood building lvl 50 characters in 5 days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[jelinlavuur]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cinderskin wrote:<BR> <DIV>welcome to lineage 2 folks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>expect an already unhealthy 350k subscriber base in this game (WOW has 700K+)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to drop like a stone when the botter are given yet another advantage to exploit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what fun is the end game when bots teams are camping all your zones and spawns?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lineage 2 my friends.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>can we not learn from the mistakes of our forefathers?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>can you say instanced zones...</P> <P>can you say there is no end game like eq1...</P> <P>can you say .. go play world of warcrap<BR></P>

[Zukh]

<DIV>Great idea, I have many friends lower level who I would love to group with. Even if the mentor got 0 xp I would still use it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for it being used for powerleveling, its hardly going to be in the same league as EQ1 where people would kill 100s of mobs with no risk. Even if people do use it as a way to level up other characters then they will still be on equal terms with all the other players of the same level. The most that they can hope for is reduced downtime and lets face it, not many folks have downtime in EQ2. </DIV>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>FYI  my groups are very rarely pickup groups,  they are guild groups,  I know how the people perform,  when I am in pickup gurops  I have to know at least one person in gorup in order for me to join, and I make sure that a group is well tested before we get to work, <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   so,  it wouldnt botherme to much them being out there,  you can normally see who is an idiot and who knows how to playtheir class pretty early on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and thanks for the one star <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Aion]

<blockquote><hr>CerraWhisperwind wrote:The exp bonus on the lower level is to hurry them along towards the higher level. This limits botters as the lower level doesn't stay lower as long and helps friends catch up to each other so they can play together normally.<hr></blockquote>If they want friends to 'catch up' in levels so they are balanced to play together naturally, they would give the mentor no xp what-so-ever, so that they are not gaining and the apprentice can catch up.I still maintain, any xp bonus for the apprentice is just wrong and expoitable, no matter what 'safe guard' they put in place -- it allows others to level faster due to the relationship to a higher level character. That is powerleveling. ESPECIALLY when you add 5 mentors to 1 apprentice. (Again, make it archetype restricted)This is a very popular addition that they are making, but the majority of people who like this like it not for any xp related issue -- it is liked because it allows larger guilds to PARTICIPATE with eachother, regardless of level -- it is liked becuase it allows higher levels to ejoy content that they have missed out on, and that in itself is greater than any XP one can gain while being a mentor.Experience, bonus, regular, or none, is not what most people are hoping for out of the mentoring system. It is the promise of being able to play as every individual wants too, while not haveing to worry about how often your friends play -- now, regardless of individual scheduals, people always have a way to play together in a productive manner.<p>Message Edited by Aion on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:08 AM</span>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aion wrote:<BR><BR>That is powerleveling. ESPECIALLY when you add 5 mentors to 1 apprentice.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Aion on <SPAN class=date_text>03-03-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:08 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From Test Server Update Notes: March 2, 2005:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV align=left> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Mentoring ***</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- The bonus XP given to the Apprentice now scales instead of receiving the same bonus amount for each added Mentor. The exact values are still being tested and may be adjusted.<BR> <DIV align=left> <HR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[TygerBlueEy]

<DIV>My question is about mentoring and level limited quest (ie Writs).  If I mentor someone will I be able to take a quest (writ) that for their level and do them?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Aion]

Still, you will get more bonus XP with 2 than with one, and so forth. 5 Mentors may not be 5 times the bonus granted from 1 mentor, but it will certainly be more bonus than with 1, 2, 3, and 4.It is powerleveling. What real reason is there to grant apprentices bonus XP from a mentor, or mentors? And what is a 20 guardian going to learn from a 50 warlock that will help him gain experiance at a hightened rate? Warlock: "See, you need to stand far away from him and hit em with a root and then the elements! no no... put that sword away..."Guardian: "but I can't control elements... and whats a root?"Of course, that might be the soution right there... bonus xp can only be obtained while being mentored by the same archetype. Different archetype, no bonus. (just trying different suggestions)

[Nakato]

<DIV>I am not going to have the time to test a few things so I was hoping someone out there would be able to look into it. As a level 12-13 summoner I could solo great oakmyst bears for 5 percent xp fairly safely, fairly easily. Here is what I am interested in looking into:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>What is the max distance between a mentor and the apprentice for the mentoring to take effect and the xp bonous?</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets say I have a lv 45 summoner and I group with random level 11 toon. Would it be possible to solo the great oakmyst bears for say 4 percent xp and park the mentored pupil far enough away so the pupil does not gain any xp? See being able to instantly solo xp at 4 or even 3 percent a kill again at level 45+ would seem wickedly fast at this point. I definately could see myself asking fellow guild mates to park a toon afk in some corner if that where the case. [heck even 2 percent a kill with the other lower level member parked afk sucking up xp would be good I figure.]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>What is the range that a pupil can get the xp bonous compared to the range a group member gets xp?</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I seem to think that if a group member is to far from the kill they recieve no xp for the encounter. I am wondering if it would be possible to park a mentor say at north qeynos gate mentoring a pupil on the other side of antonica and give the pupil added mentoring xp + credit for the kill as if they where solo. [ergo killing a group mob but being recognized as a solo player for reward because the mentor is so far away in addition to the mentor bonous. Which would result in always in the best interest if your going to go afk to mentor a lower level soloer player perhaps.]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short I am wondering if there is ever a reason not to be mentoring a lower level alt while your afk or when soloing if there is ever a time when you shouldn't always seek to be mentored by a higher level character.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope that makes some sense and someone out there will have the chance to look into it. The simple solution of course would be to make mentoring xp bonous only take place if the two members are near enough to each other to receive xp together.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am really looking forward to mentoring and I like the idea of the bonous xp for the pupil sence it will allow them to play catch up. I am of course just looking for ways that may lead to abuse if they aren't checked and corrected.</DIV>

[Day]

<DIV>For me it is not about "catch up" I would like this change with no xp for the mentor and no bouns for the one being mentored. For me it is just being able to adventure with my younger guildmates.</DIV>

[Namil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dayln wrote:<BR> <DIV>For me it is not about "catch up" I would like this change with no xp for the mentor and no bouns for the one being mentored. For me it is just being able to adventure with my younger guildmates.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I have to agree here, The ability to help out Friends, Family and guildies along with still getting loot drops is all the incentive I need to help these people. Getting xp for killing stuff that has been gray to me for 20 levels IMO is bad. I also feel that if that person is within the default 8/9 level gap that was already changed in a previous patch from a 4/5 level gap, that person should not be able to be mentored and receive bonus xp. They are already killing stuff they would not be able to kill alone witch normally nets a good amount of xp.</P> <P> </P>

[Aion]

<blockquote><hr>Namilla wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Dayln wrote:<BR><DIV>For me it is not about "catch up" I would like this change with no xp for the mentor and no bouns for the one being mentored. For me it is just being able to adventure with my younger guildmates.</DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><P>I have to agree here, The ability to help out Friends, Family and guildies along with still getting loot drops is all the incentive I need to help these people. Getting xp for killing stuff that has been gray to me for 20 levels IMO is bad. I also feel that if that person is within the default 8/9 level gap that was already changed in a previous patch from a 4/5 level gap, that person should not be able to be mentored and receive bonus xp. They are already killing stuff they would not be able to kill alone witch normally nets a good amount of xp.</P><P> </P><hr></blockquote>I too, agree. "Catch up" denotes a race. I personally think it is already too easy to level (at least until mid-30s).XP bonus just has no useful purpose in the grand scheme of things.

[CerraWhisperwind]

Remember that catch up were my words, not the devs. Just my speculation. As far as the bonus XP, when I was mentored by two other people I got 9% bonus... probably 5% then 4% for the next person... when compared to 100% for vitality, its nothing to write home about.