does anyone agree with purchased mount nerf?

[Bleusong]

i know it's like beating a dead horse..but even agreeing with patch thread people are saying...it was dumb..so will purchased mounts get speed back?

[Savara]

<DIV>I don't.  At this point I don't think the devs care to change it back though.  By reducing the purchased horse speeds and not taking them out of the game, it just appears to be nothing other than an upcharge to a popular money/time sink.  They won't come out and say it, but thats what it is.  </DIV>

[sglant]

<DIV>I know this isnt EQ1, but if you bought a horse in EQ1 (say the 103k horse), if you sold it back, you only got roughly 76k for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is nothing I have seen in the game that would suggest a vendor would buy something back for the same price you purchased it for.</DIV> <DIV>I bought a horse for 3.68p and then sold it back for 3.07p, and I was happy with it. I was surprised I got that much back.</DIV>

[Bleusong]

should've been full refund as promised anyways<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> that's not the point..seems NO ONE agrees with purchased horse speed nerf..even folks who agree with patch..seems to be boggled at why merchant horse speed was nerfed...was it simply to create a larger money sink?..only reason i can think of.

[TopHatJon]

<DIV>I just dont see why it was neccessary.</DIV>

[Bunglem]

<DIV>Yea it was pointless.  But they'll never change it back now.  Once a change like this is made they have no incentive to change it back.  They've already let us know what they think of our opinions by letting the patch go through anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides, I think it's hilarious that I can still outrun mobs.  The only thing they did was make a lot of people needlessly mad...  me included.</DIV>

[Miral]

<DIV>don't really care myself. probably never be able to afford even the lowest horse, and ive only seen a few people on horses that were not paladins or shadowknights (and only about twenty google (20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) that were) (ok exaggerated.... barely) Anyways most the people that have that kind of money got it from bugs in the crafting system early on i the game's life anyway(intentional or not doesn't matter, I'm not here to judge right now)... so removing this millions of plat in whatever means possible is a good thing. Did the horses need nerfed? maybe, don't see what brought it on but if they were unbalancing the game then they were unbalancing the game... But either way I don't think a full refund should have been given. Maybe a half sellback like every other merchant in the game... Sony nerfs and bugs stuff everyday without compensation, why should horse owners get special treatment?</DIV>

[Bleusong]

mm..i DO NOT believe it was from bugs...try /who all 45 ask em how much they make in a session nicely<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> people worked hard for these mounts

[Miral]

<DIV>ok anyone below 40 with that kind of money then hehe.. the rest just shot up to 50 real fast before all the nerfs that make leveling a hell of a lot harder</DIV><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:54 PM</span>

[Bleusong]

how?<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i believe most people who bought their horses worked very hard for em..

[Bunglem]

<DIV>lol I'm level 31 and I got my horse two levels ago...  and I don't craft...  and I don't exploit.  Just thought I'd tell ya that there are honest ways to make money out there.</DIV>

[Miral]

<DIV>I'm not saying ALL people that have that kind of money, just the majority of them. Theres also those that have better luck or are on the servers that came around later (without such a borked economy as hthe origional servers)</DIV>

[Bleusong]

...i believe majority worked hard for their horses<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dyeana]

<DIV>Yes, many of them worked for the horse if they really wanted a horse.  Doesn't take a bug in tradeskills or any other existing bugor illegal activity/macro in the game.  Just turn off combat exp and farm a bit.  It can be done even faster on the live servers with the inflated economy if you set your player to sell when not actively farming.  Having the plat for a horse by level 15 is not really hard, just time consuming and a bit boring farming.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dye</DIV>

[Sunfire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TopHatJones wrote:<BR> <DIV>I just dont see why it was neccessary.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>What they didnt want to say "out loud" was that their code and servers couldn't handle the lag generated once more than a couple percent of people in a given zone had the faster horses.  Not only was it creating lag problems but it was allowing the kind of bug you could do in EQ-I sometimes where you could breeze by a mob so fast it would never aggro on you since by the time the server updated your position you had already past the mob's aggro radius (i.e. server read 1 you're outside the mob's aggro radius on one side, by the time server read 2 comes along you're already outside the mobs aggro radius on the other).  There are ways to accomodate these sorts of problems via programming and remembering path's from point to point etc but I think they figured they'd drop the speed for now - make code adjustments later so they could add faster horses in later expansions ... theoretically its a 200 level game so ....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>still I think 100% refunds were in order...</DIV>

[Kylan]

The people I heard complaining loudest about it were the same ones that said "I used to be able to get away on my horse, but now I have to sprint!" That to me proves that the nerf was needed.

[Bleusong]

i don't have a horse<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but still seems like a dumb nerf>< rather you can get away from agro or not, i've done so with sow many times with just sow no sprint around nightbrood things<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> it's not players fault but soe, why should players get punished, specially when majority only used it to get from point a to b<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> anyways...just wanted to see if most agreed or disagreed<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Barneba]

<DIV>I dont have a horse either - but I can see problems with people getting too fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As mention above - the server code for checking if a mob should agro can be bypassed if your fast enough... A fix for that is to make the servers update faster on your position, but the problem with this is adding more workload on already hard pressed servers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides that you could at higher levels without much fear of death run around and scout most areas simply because you were so fast mobs wouldnt have a change stopping you - while this may seem fun being able to explore - its kinda a gamebreaking thingy for people like me. I like knowing there is danger involved in getting to exciting places or atleast hard work - not that some level 35 just had some pp to use... Now I know many of you think: "Well, YOU dont need to use a horse to explore - you can turn off run/sprint and walk past content and be very afraid of agro and dying - and leave those of us who are not alone"... But this simply just comes down to the same problems teleporting and books have in EQ... If they are there people will use it and the rest have to follow or be left out of the game (ie. you can be sure no guilds will want you if you didnt use the books in EQ while the rest were).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But generelly its a tweak/balance of the horses - and while its always hard to swallow changes going "the wrong way" in our eyes - much like other changes in the game we need to try and understand, that its not being done to kill our fun - its made to make the game more fun in the longer run, and if this happens to make the game feel less fun for a short periode (the periode it takes for people to swallow the "nerf" and get used to not having as fast horses) - then thats just how it has to be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cagefighter]

<DIV>I don't agree with it but then I wouldn't as I worked my [Removed for Content] off to be able to afford a horse, and that just [Removed for Content] me off royally.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>.......................................</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> know this isnt EQ1, but if you bought a horse in EQ1 (say the 103k horse), if you sold it back, you only got roughly 76k for it. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is nothing I have seen in the game that would suggest a vendor would buy something back for the same price you purchased it for.</DIV> <DIV>I bought a horse for <FONT color=#ff9900>3.68p and then sold it back for 3.07p</FONT>, and I was happy with it. I was surprised I got that much back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>.......................................</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What!!? I sold that one back and got only 2.4pp?? How come and why and [Removed for Content]?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also Moorgard specifically promised a full, yes FULL refund. Liar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me repeat that . LIAR LIAR pants on FIRE! etc etc... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>/quote </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no such vendor currently on the live servers because horses haven't been changed yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You will indeed be able to get your cash back for your mount if you choose to do so. Stable hands will be added in the cities for exactly this purpose.</DIV> <P>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy</P> <P>You will be able to get your cash back, that is what is says - simple no way of misunderstanding this at all. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P></DIV></DIV>

[Silversnow]

Yea. And i guess your a liar too if you repeat what your told how things are going to work and then the boss tells you otherwise a week later. The idea of a full refund prolly did sound good and was most likely the plan until a senior dev looked at it and gave the thumbs down.

[Cagefighter]

<DIV>Yes, that would also make me a liar indeed, but I know what you mean - don't shoot the messenger. Was still pretty upset about it though.</DIV>

[Bleusong]

just shouldn't make promises they can not keep..<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Daeanor]

<blockquote><hr>Bleusong wrote:just shouldn't make promises they can not keep..<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>That's not fair. It wasn't a promise in the first place - he told us what the plan was at the time, and the plan changed. Remember, Moorguard doesn't make these decisions all by himself (I'm not sure he's involved at all, he's just point man for telling us about them), and if the people that do change it after he already announced a previous decision, there isn't a heck of a lot he can do about it. Ever wonder <i>why</i> it so often seems like there is no response on so many issuse? Because they are subject to change, and they don't want to be in exactly that position of having to go back on what was said earlier. People pushed and whined and pleaded to get an answer early on horse buy-backs, so he gave them what he knew at the time. Not his fault the plan changed.

[Miral]

<DIV>He sa id a full refund, MINUS VENDOR MARKUP. maybe you bought from a very greedy merchant? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Bleusong]

no<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> never bought mount<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but he never said vendor markup<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />anyways<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> point is...no one seems to agree with the nerf itself..and not getting agro from mobs might have some validity..as i've done it with just sow before..m..will sow get nerfed as well? or now the 50plat carpet?

[Lastcall]

The problem of the run speed allowing players to outrun mobs safely probably needed to be fixed. I'm sure it was fairly easy for developers to plug new run speed numbers in. However, I would have preferred to see developers just make it so that your horse dropped when you were hit by mob, similar to the way potion illusions drop when you attack. And do not allow players to attack mobs on a horse. That would take the safety net away and still allow players the real value of a horse, which is to save travelling time. But still... horse or not, anyone can sprint and outrun mobs. Sure, when your new to the game and at a lower level, it makes sense that you should run from point A to B until you discover more of the lands. But after you get to higher levels and you have been all over norrath, it justs gets tedious running, running, running. Learn at least something from the success of EQ1, added horses, added knowledge ports, added more port spells, sow to more players, added run speed AA. All these things to cut travelling time to players can spend time adventuring vs. running. I appreciate the merchant in EF that sells the tickets to EL. I am not someone with a load of game cash and 100% of the time, without question, I spend the 60s to take a quick ride to EL rather than run the commons/nektulos route. I do not own a horse. I would like to have one. Many of us play this game to see end rewards either from mobs, quests, or spending hard earned cash on things like horses. It's just dissapointing to players to see these things get worse rather than better. It fixes a small problem, but it does not do what EQ2 managment and development strive for, which is to make the game better.

[Bleusong]

but 9plat horse still has 3plat horse speed? will this be problem in future?

[Coinkidink]

<DIV>9p horse is 40% increase</DIV> <DIV>3.6p horse is 32% increase</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are not the same speed.  All horses were downgraded respectively.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the person that only got back 2.54p for his horse.  You went to the wrong stablehand :p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I don't care what they did to horses.  Being a lowly Templar i have no run buffs.  no invis. nada   I am at the mercy of my slow class :p  Recently bought the 3p horse (only when buyback went live) as it was a definite upgrade to my class, and taking a 60g loss when i upgrade to the 9p horse next week is of no consequence.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To each their own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Akele</DIV>

[Cagefighter]

<DIV>Well can you tell me where the right one is please before I sell the other 2? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV>

[MasterMerl]

I do not agree with this nerf at all, and quite POed about it. I really don't understand why some people like things going slower?? And then complain they die all the time hmmm. Can we say HYPOCRITE. The same people you see that say this is a good nerf, will be a couple of weeks down the road complaning about dieing from not running away fast enough, I guarantee it.

[Bleusong]

<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> we'll see i suppose<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dyeana]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Lastcall wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"The problem of the run speed allowing players to outrun mobs safely probably needed to be fixed."<BR><BR>"However, I would have preferred to see developers just make it so that your horse dropped when you were hit by mob, similar to the way potion illusions drop when you attack. And do not allow players to attack mobs on a horse. That would take the safety net away and still allow players the real value of a horse, which is to save travelling time. But still... horse or not, anyone can sprint and outrun mobs. "<BR><BR>"Sure, when your new to the game and at a lower level, it makes sense that you should run from point A to B until you discover more of the lands. But after you get to higher levels and you have been all over norrath, it justs gets tedious running, running, running. Learn at least something from the success of EQ1, added horses, added knowledge ports, added more port spells, sow to more players, added run speed AA. All these things to cut travelling time to players can spend time adventuring vs. running. "<BR></DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That the horses still exist with the speeds which they have now indicates the reason for the nerf was not allowing players to outrun mobs.  Especially since anyone who really wants a horse could achieve one by level 15.  That players chose to level vice aquire items or property is their personal choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For someone else mentioning the horse allowed a player to slip past a mob, that ability has not changed.  Based on horses still existing and use of sprint, and other speed enhancement of particular classes.  Heck, in many cases a player needs no speed enhancement at all to slip past due to the ever present lag on the servers and poor placement of spawn points.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone mentioned the horses causing lag in themselves.  This is possible depending on if their fix to a memory leak was related to the speed, but this was due in most part due to poor programing if it was.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I suspect will occurr will be the introduction of even faster mounts of various types.  Although I believe the best fix is mainly one which forces more players to run the distances weither on horse, foot, sprint, or speed enhancing spell.  Yes, it takes time, but many learn the zones much better, and tend to be in better condition to handle the zones they are going to without unnecessary training zones or other players.  The zones are set up by tier not by general access of any level player.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dye<BR></DIV>

[GeraltE]

I personally find it funny now when I see a player Sprint and keep up with this expensive 9pp horse.We all know this is fantasy, but come on now. I can understand a player keeping up with a horse that trots down the road at a slow speed, but for 9pp, the horse should be a race horse and no player should be able to catch up with it unless you are using a spell.I felt 48% was decent. No more, no less. It was a nice speed in general.I remember half reading a quote on here from someone saying that the horse was outrunning mobs. Well um, isn't that the point of having a fast horse?If you are not "fighting" a mob, the horse should move fast.I honestly wish these jokers at SOE would reconsider this and put the horses back to normal.

[Nuvi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>i know it's like beating a dead horse..but even agreeing with patch thread people are saying...it was dumb..<BR><BR>so will purchased mounts get speed back?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>i bought a 9plat83gold horse the day the nerf patch went live,and after thinking about it more and more it makes more sense,3plat for sprint was 2 "cheap" (not that 3 plat isnt alot of money,but it wont be in 2-3 months or more).</P> <P>it doesnt take that long 2 come up with 2-3 plat if you play your cards right in this game,9-10plat is another story,so i think this change was for the best.</P> <P> </P>

[Iseabeil]

<DIV>if each 10 levels is a tier, there is 20 tiers planned for this game. having these actually low tier horses too fast would either make higher tier horses useless, or waaaay overspeeded. theres a lot more to a mmorpg than what happens 'today'. ie, the future. </DIV> <DIV>they should have had that slowed speed on horses from beginning tho, instead of having to lower it.</DIV>

[Runelaron]

<DIV>Ok I have a feeling that this is a hard concept to comprehend. so lets go back to EQ1.... Do,do.do do do.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OK the highest horse was 103k+ depending on color. This gave you 120% run speed, this is equil to a level 65 bard speed song.</DIV> <DIV>Now trust me 103k was just as hard to get as 9pp in this game(due to spells every level/armor/quests) the reson for this was infact you where Replacing the NEED for that bard with a Premanent buff for yourself(being the horse.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The speeds where reduced based on the ITEMS and SPELLS they where inteded to replace.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Free 10% Paladin = Jboots level 35 minimum to complete the quest, though both are free.</DIV> <DIV>3pp 24% Tier 1 = Replacing a troubadors speed buff.</DIV> <DIV>5pp 32% Tier 2 = Replacing need for a druid Spirit of the Wolf AKA SOW.</DIV> <DIV>9pp 40% Tier 3 = Replacing Sprint.</DIV> <DIV>Ouch 48% Tier 4 = Guild advance, beyond everything due to the time taken to obtain 50pp and 500,000 status.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this clerifies it, any EQ verten isnt complaining about this. They understand why.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rune </DIV> <DIV> 38 conj</DIV> <DIV>  Blackburrow</DIV><p>Message Edited by Runelaron on <span class=date_text>02-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:23 AM</span>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GeraltEQ2 wrote:<BR>I personally find it funny now when I see a player Sprint and keep up with this expensive 9pp horse.<BR><BR>We all know this is fantasy, but come on now. I can understand a player keeping up with a horse that trots down the road at a slow speed, but for 9pp, the horse should be a race horse and no player should be able to catch up with it unless you are using a spell.<BR><BR>I felt 48% was decent. No more, no less. It was a nice speed in general.<BR><BR>I remember half reading a quote on here from someone saying that the horse was outrunning mobs. Well um, isn't that the point of having a fast horse?<BR><BR>If you are not "fighting" a mob, the horse should move fast.<BR><BR>I honestly wish these jokers at SOE would reconsider this and put the horses back to normal.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Think of sprinting in EQ2 as a spell. Because well, it is. it drains your mana like any other maintained spell. A horse, on the otherhand, is a permanent, constant buff.

[z3oslo]

<DIV>Esay solution, nerf sprint! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Runelaron]

<DIV>Thats right lets make sprint slower! no one will complain, even though its free and is manabased and saves your life.. but man you have to pay for something that last forever! chainge that we are all screwed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This doesent make any sence and theres a reson for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kalyndr]

<DIV>Personally Im [Removed for Content] off abou tthe changes. Nothing like seeing a low lvl (22) swashbuckler blow past your 9plat horse using nothing more than tracking and hitting his sprint button. Im not talking about "creeping" past...Im mean blow past stir up a dust storm speed! And oh by the way SOE...he outruns mobs everytime he gets agro'ed. But my conjurer on the 9 plat horse doesnt and ends up dead. I spent 9 plat to die same as I did when I tried to outsprint agro'ed mobs. How exactly is this supposed to be fair and equitable?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Bleusong]

ouch..think they'll come out with horse between 50plat and 9plat?...some people aren't in guilds..you know?and 200 lvls..don't know if that will ever happen

[Laven Firestart]

<DIV>It was poetic justice for all those people that said "I bought my horse why does a Paladin get it for free", before people went on and on about the paladin horse I am sure there wasn't any time allocated to reviewing horses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not a paladin but people had a choice of what to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Expect an incoming Scout nerf as they are now as fast as horses, it's a slippery slope and we have just gone over the edge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Developers should look at these boards with two things in mind, firstly ignore the minority that post here because they don't know what is best for the game as a whole and secondly every class is overpowered except for the class the former are playing.</DIV>

[illum.]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kylania wrote:<BR>The people I heard complaining loudest about it were the same ones that said "I used to be able to get away on my horse, but now I have to sprint!" That to me proves that the nerf was needed.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My god you need to get a clue!</P> <P> </P> <P>I can STILL outrun almost any mob on a T2 horse! </P> <P>I am STILL an uber harvester!</P> <P>I have NEVER seen any strange lag/update/database stuff in zones with lots of horses around.</P> <P>I have NEVER EVER quantom-jumped through aggrozones and I never heard of anyone who did either.</P> <P> </P> <P>There is such a thing called GALLOP yes, it works like sprint, but for HORSES. Not skateboards or super sneakers but HORSES! People without a clue should stop trying to fabulate points to support their jealousy ..!..</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only valid point so far is that "faster horses" might be coming but then present broken down, crude, disspirited, underfed nags should be brought down in price to reflect that too. This speednerf accomplished nothing but [Removed for Content] people off, period, 5 stars to original poster, good job.</DIV>