Devs, I am happy with this update:

[DjLowball]

<DIV>SInce this is feedback forum, I think this update overall is pretty good. I really like how the short term buffs have been given a longer timer, because as a dirge, my group always wants that power buff, and it was a pain every couple of minutes recasting. Especially when I was in a fully group and drew agro for buffing everyone. </DIV> <DIV>I also approve of the speed changes in the horses: I personally did not understand why a character could make 20 and get a free horse, and I have to save up a few platinum. Your solution works by letting those certian classes keep their mounts, while not handing them an uber ride for free. As for lowering the speed of bought mounts, I find this to be dumb, especially when just yesterday I am sure somebody dropped a few plat only to wake up to the nerf.</DIV> <DIV>As for the item attuning, I am aware it is unpopular and forces players to have to change their financial mindset, but I understand why it was done, and that in the end it will help preserve the economy. My suggestion though is that you implement some sort of in game trade system, on a large scale. Make it so we can have a global (or city) chat to auction with much like swg. Also give us the ability to mail items to each other, or leave at a central place to pickup. There will clearly be less money and fewer items on the market, so it will not be viable to afk market. If players can connect and form a barter system it would help ease the pain of not being able to sell everything, while simultaneously strengthening the community through trade and such.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also allowing players to have their own stores they do not have to man would be excellent. AFK selling is stupid when you went to the trouble of attempting a crafting system that rewards a player for not afk macroing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Later</DIV>

[Darken_St]

<DIV>Couldn't agree more my friend as my own post clearly says the same kinds of things. ^_^ 5 Stars for you for thinking with your head as opposed to blowing up as if every change meant the end of the world. These here boards, they be rife with nihilists, methinks. ^_~</DIV><p>Message Edited by Darken_Star on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 PM</span>

[Alk]

<BR> <DIV>And I thought I was the only one liking the new patch :robotvery-happy:</FONT></DIV>

[Talaga]

I'm going to add my voice of approval to this thread, since it would simply be drowned out in the other forums. I agree with most of what the OP said.The change to summoned mounts (aka lvl 20 Paladin/SK "fluff" spell) needed to be made. This is from a lvl 23 Paladin. No need to say more. However, the change to the purchased mounts has me scratching my head. I'm still not clear on why this was done. I've read, in other threads, that the speed buff was too high, and it was allowing players to run through zones with impunity. I can understand how, in some cases, this could be a bad thing, but isn't that the point of spending 9pp on a horse?Ah well. It's done. We'll give it a chance to see if it achieves what you were going for. (Whatever that was. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )The forced attunement of equipment was something that needed to be done. The economy would have come to a complete halt, allowing only the most hardcore of tradeskillers to have any worthwhile function. Now, lower-level tradeskillers can step in and have a market in which to sell their goods.I realize that, for the most part, you're trying to take as much of a "hands off" approach to the in-game economy as you can, but if there was some way to ensure that adventurers could look forward to fair pricing from tradeskillers, it would probably go a long way to calming the fears that are being expressed in the other forums. In the long run, I'm sure the market will stabilize on its own. But when you see tier 3 food being priced at 25-50sp, it's hard, as an adventurer, to sit back and take it. This is from a level 23 Provisioner. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />So far, I like this patch. At the very least, you've proven to me (and others) that SOE has the courage to make the changes that are best for the overall game.To this long-time gamer, that means a lot.

[Jin]

there's nothing wrong with the economy in eq1, if you think there is, you haven't the first clue as to the law of economics.Thinking that since a Charm of Rodcet costs 1 gold, it will always cost 1 gold, is completely ignorant and short-sighted.

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>On the long run everything that removes items (crafted, quested or looted) is good for the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If items arent removed from the game the next generation af players will miss alot of the fun we did, probably get bored fast and leave the game after trial.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to those self-centered, success-driven powerlevelers who cant stand that items or income comes from anything else than LOOT:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> if new players get bored of the powerleveler game you desire and leave - whom are you gonna impress with your level and stuff????? :smileytongue:</DIV>

[TheWays]

<DIV>I also agree that that patch was a good move by SoE.  The market was quickly becomming flooded with crafted goods, outfitters were selling themselves out of a market.  I personally moved away from outfitting because I knew that every item I sold would lessen my chances of selling a similar item in the future.  I like the runspeed changes that were brought up with mounts and the like.  I'm not sure if it was always this way, but pathfinding is now an out of combat speed buff only.  While I can see this impacting the virtually non existant soloing ability of many scouts (assassins like me) I think it is a fair step to remove speedbuffs as a method of a cheap bow kiting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the changes made to the mounts/totems was to make their cost/benefit ratios more linear and fair.  Mounts now upgrade in 8% blocks, rather than 6% in some cases.  I think scaling down totem speeds to 24% from 40% is a huge difference and one that was very appropriate since a 40% horse cost 5pp and now cost 8.2pp.  I think allowing people to sell back their horses for full price was also a very fair move, for those that bought their horse pre patch and became dissapointed.  And it has been said many times that crusader mounts speeds were never intended to be that fast, but it slipped through beta and wasn't a top priority on release.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level and group requirements have been removed from instanced zones, timers have been lowered drastically in some cases, general loot tables have been bumped up where appropriate.  Sorcerers got a very much needed boost in DPS.  Short duration buffs increase substantially, tradeskilling became a lot more user friendly, Fighters were put balanced for damage with a noticeable increase in tanking across the archetype.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only problems that I have with the patch is a lack of upgrades to scouts (assassins especially :smileywink: ) and the lowering of upper lvl scout dps because of the strength changes.  In general, however, I am very impressed with the speed and quality of every patch that is implemented especially this one, since I believe it has shown the biggest leaps in class balance, tradeskill/economic balance, and gameplay styles.</DIV>

[Zygon]

<DIV>".... short-sighted."  :smileyvery-happy: Now that is some fine irony.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have to agree with the original post, very good update. The attuming of items being the best part, thank you for keeping an eye on the future.</DIV>

[Thunndar6]

<DIV> You guys really have no clue do ya?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Attunement = less supply, but the demand is still there, result, higher prices.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Higher fuel costs = more money to make said item = higher prices.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Lower writ rewards = crafters losing money, adding it to the cost of his/her items for sale = more money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> This has not helped the economy and it fact has made it worse, over the weekend everything went up in price, which means those selling resources have raised there prices to make money so they can buy upgrades, the casual crafter who has not or ever will make alot of money just got booted out of the crafting game, either by lack of time, or lack of money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> The crafting halls over the weekend, at least on Unrest were prettymuch barren, in talking to crafting friends many have just stopped crafting. They simply can't afford to adventure and upgrade gear, and craft, they don't have the money and or time to keep up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> They say they are trying to make the game a casual friendly type, but in alot of ways are going in the oppisite direction.</DIV>

[Dume]

Most of the changes in this patch were positive. However, the one negative change was so horrible in my viewpoint that I have a hard time keeping perspective on the patch as a whole. I do appreciate most all of the other changes. Making most TS goods attunable was a positive. Thank heavens I can put bags in bags now. Run speed, short duration buffs, etc... all good. However, the interdependency of the various crafting subclasses was the best idea that EQ2 had. I would have hope that the devs learned something from the original EQs adventure class interdependencies and known how those needs force players to interact and form relationships. Everything from small groups of friends with informal arrangements to full blown guilds were forming up around the need to swap components. This interaction is what builds community and makes the game fun. It's what makes the game last. I wish the fuel prices were not so severe, but in the end, that is a minor issue compared with the remove of interdependencies. I do with that issue would be reconsidered.

[Vanion Vilesilenc]

<DIV>I think the patch is a good thing, the horse nerf was not needed but who cares. The item sink was definetely needed. How much do you think tradeskillers that come along in six months are going to be able to sell the pristine bracelet for when their are 15000 of them on the server ?? How worth while is a kickass drop from SH gonna be worth in 6 months when their are 15000 on the server. All the old places in EQ became ghost towns as the game progressed . How many people that started playing three years after launch crawled unrest for the BS Tunic ?? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was a GOOD PATCH !</DIV>

[Kibbst]

<DIV>I agree on a lot of things the latest patch has done.</DIV> <DIV>Making most items attunable is a bit painfull for a lot of people to start with but for the good of the economy it's a great thing.</DIV> <DIV>If everything lasted forever any economy would die real life or a virtual one so Kudos to SOE for that forward thinking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The mount for Pallys...</DIV> <DIV>Shame, but I can see why it had to be done, it was cheapening the value of purchased mounts by being the same speed as a 2.5plat horse.</DIV> <DIV>Pallys are mostly gutted, my pally is a bit sad about it but I understand why it was done.</DIV> <DIV>At the end of the day I have a fluff spell that looks really cool (Unlike all the other fluff spells) and only cost me 17s.</DIV> <DIV>Can't complain too much about that. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Purchased mounts...</DIV> <DIV>SOE.... What were you thinking?</DIV> <DIV>Why oh why oh why did you have to nerf the one main thing that a lot of people were striving to achieve and putting in a lot of work for?</DIV> <DIV>What harm were fast horses doing when the owner had slogged their guts out for the status and utility of a fast horse.</DIV> <DIV>I personally was saving hard with my main to buy a horse, it was my main medium term goal, I wanted a 2.5plat horse to feel like I had earned something that was worthwhile.</DIV> <DIV>Now do I really want to pay 2.5plat for a hobbled old nag?</DIV> <DIV>Is a 24% speed increase worth 2.5plat to me....No not really.</DIV> <DIV>Am I the only one who isn't going to sink that money into a horse now.... Probably not.</DIV> <DIV>I was a way off I only have 70g from harvesting, but I was determined...Now I'm at a bit of a loss really, don't want to spend my "life" savings on what was a real useful utility that in my mind was worth the money not has become, well more useful than nothing - but a few plats more useful than nothing?</DIV> <DIV>Not sure about that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry about the long rant, but I think it's really unfair to the people that have bought a horse and those that had that as a goal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And no, saying they can sell their multi plat hobbled donkeys back to the merchant is not fair.</DIV> <DIV>If they weren't nerfed in the first place people wouldn't need to sell them back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[thepriz]

I just wanted to say I also loved the patch. I am glad some of the winers are leaving the game. Most of them are probably non-roleplaying powerlevelers. Have not seen one problem with the patch so far. As far as casual Players such as I, I find all the changes for the positive.

[kr8ztwin]

<DIV>I also agree.....its an amazing patch and one that was needed dearly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When this new economy balances out people will not be selling their goods for more regardless of the cost of fuel and the like.  The reason is supply vs demand.  The supply of these items will increase a great deal which makes ppl drop prices to minimal profits.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only thing that bothers me a little is the implimentation of such a drastic change to TS.  Maybe a progresive fix might have been a better deal....i'm not sure.  I know what was intended in the fix so I am all for it.  I just wish there was a little interdependancy.</DIV>

[Jin]

i love how all the spinless fanbois say "it's good for the economy", yet none of them--not one--have posted an ounce of logical fact to back themselves up.if all you're going to do is echo each other, how's about you shut up? otherwise, post your proof, and not the a to some dev's post."how to you know it won't be great for the economy" they say.well how in the hell do you know that it will?

[fasht]

<blockquote><hr>Jinpo wrote:i love how all the spinless fanbois say "it's good for the economy", yet none of them--not one--have posted an ounce of logical fact to back themselves up.if all you're going to do is echo each other, how's about you shut up? otherwise, post your proof, and not the a to some dev's post."how to you know it won't be great for the economy" they say.well how in the hell do you know that it will?<hr></blockquote>Dunno how you can answer this since you already made up your mind (if I disagree with you, I am a "spinless fanboi")Anyway, unless you have some understanding in real world economics there isn't much anyone can do to convince you except to say "go and get an economics textbook and read it"Concepts such as GOOD for the economy isn't something that makes much sense. The changes *CHANGED* the economy, that's all. Is it a "good" economy when inflation runs at 1000% per year, and goods drop in price exponentially? Well this DOES mean that in 2 years time every who starts the game can start twinked out with every maxed orage item they could need. Lots of people LIKE this sort of thingThis is what the economy was like before the patchIs it a "good" economy when inflation runs at a low 10% a year, and goods are constantly being absorbed and destroyed, forcing an endless cycle of creation? Well, it DOES mean thatn in 2 years time Joe Newbie can make a widget and have SOME chance of selling it for a fair profit on his time. Lots of people like THAT sort of thing tooThis is what the economy is after the patchIs either better? Well the patch certainly gave the economy legs and made the developers lives easier. Rampant inflation would devalue most of the items in the game over time to the point where new items would need to be added pretty much constantly at a fairly high rate to provide value to the systemFor the players though? Kinda depends on their attitude. If 51% of the games players prefer twinking newbies with the artifact value weapons for 1 copper, well maybe the change was bad. Remember of course, these 51% need to be willing to give up the added content likely to be possible now the developers don't need to play catch up with a run away inflation. That's less tangable unfortunatly, and only time will tell.

[Jin]

Well, it DOES mean thatn in 2 years time Joe Newbie can make a widget and have SOME chance of selling it for a fair profit on his time."This game is NOT abotu "Joe Newbie" and his crafting. It is abotu QUESTING, thus the name, everQUEST.Further, why is it ok for "Joe Newie" to make a "fair profit" via his crafting, yet I cannot make a "fair profit" from my questing, when it's 10 times more involved and time consuming?You click f1/f2 over and over, and print yourself money.I travel all over the game, killing mobs, harvesting, talking to NPCs, traveling some more, kill a boss, and what do I get?An item I may be able to use for a few levels, and 4% resale value? How is that "fair"?For cripes sake, people, open your eyes.If adventurers cannot make money, then crafters will NOT make money.And for the love of God, quit retyping that exact line of BS that Moor shoveled before he ran off to Europe, and explain to me how EQ managed to thrive for nearly 5 years before attuned items?If you can't, then shut the hell up already.

[Cecil_Stri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thunndar666 wrote:<BR> <DIV> You guys really have no clue do ya?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Attunement = less supply, but the demand is still there, result, higher prices.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Higher fuel costs = more money to make said item = higher prices.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Lower writ rewards = crafters losing money, adding it to the cost of his/her items for sale = more money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> This has not helped the economy and it fact has made it worse, over the weekend everything went up in price, which means those selling resources have raised there prices to make money so they can buy upgrades, the casual crafter who has not or ever will make alot of money just got booted out of the crafting game, either by lack of time, or lack of money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> The crafting halls over the weekend, at least on Unrest were prettymuch barren, in talking to crafting friends many have just stopped crafting. They simply can't afford to adventure and upgrade gear, and craft, they don't have the money and or time to keep up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> They say they are trying to make the game a casual friendly type, but in alot of ways are going in the oppisite direction.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Actually you are the clueless one.   What you say is true to an extent.. but crafting was never profitable selling wise.  That was the problem and that is what they fixed.  Only crafters that did really well were ones that got there first and people bought from them before the realized that drop was better and people that farmed by selling to vendors.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now crafters actually have a place in this game... The prices will not sky rocket cause more people will be able to level and they will compete against each other.  underselling and such will keep prices down.... and more money in the economy would have made it so that after awhile the money would have made the prices much much higher and kept rising</P>

[fasht]

<blockquote><hr>Jinpo wrote:This game is NOT abotu "Joe Newbie" and his crafting. It is abotu QUESTING, thus the name, everQUEST.Further, why is it ok for "Joe Newie" to make a "fair profit" via his crafting, yet I cannot make a "fair profit" from my questing, when it's 10 times more involved and time consuming?<hr></blockquote>Ok, ignore crafting if it makes you upset. The change also allows Joe Newbie the adventurer to sell the armour and weapons he finds off mobs during his adventures and not have to compete with 2 year old stored equipment that his guild kits him out the second he first logs on<p>Message Edited by fashtas on <span class=date_text>02-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:10 PM</span>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jinpo wrote:<BR>If adventurers cannot make money, then crafters will NOT make money.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am the kind of crafter (armorer) who works 90% for his own gear---> adventurer himself</P> <P>So I dont need *adventurers*. The interims and rawy that are left over after I am finished with a certain kind of armor usually sell fast over the broker - to other crafters! :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Miral]

<DIV>pft all you [FAAR-NERFED!] republicans, boosting big business and screwing the consumer... oy</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as for the post right above mine... thats part of the problem of the EQ2 economy.... SOE needs to make artisan its on subclass like was origionally planned. Allow everyone to choose whether they want to keep their adventurer or artisan class, then give a boost in the favored class modified by the level of the lost class...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:39 AM</span>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> fashtas wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jinpo wrote:<BR>This game is NOT abotu "Joe Newbie" and his crafting. It is abotu QUESTING, thus the name, everQUEST.<BR><BR>Further, why is it ok for "Joe Newie" to make a "fair profit" via his crafting, yet I cannot make a "fair profit" from my questing, when it's 10 times more involved and time consuming? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ok, ignore crafting if it makes you upset. <BR>The change also allows Joe Newbie the adventurer to sell the armour and weapons he finds off mobs during his adventures and not have to compete with 2 year old stored equipment that his guild kits him out the second he first logs on <P>Message Edited by fashtas on <SPAN class=date_text>02-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:10 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>keep in mind we have limited storage in this game... I find it hard to just store stuff long enough to get into merchant mode without server doing down... can't imagine trying to store full armor sets for 2 years!</P> <P>Btw sure which someone would "kit" out some equipment to me... I'm a 25 necro that is still wearing two items from the isle of refuge <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> very light armor is rare enough... now with everythign being attuned its nearly impossible to get anything that isnt found on my own from a chest drop... And with everything having much higher prices, people are less likely to care about need before greed on items and venture that everyone needs money... and of course I have ba dluck on drops... the only drops i get are the common vendor drops (like say, orc meat) or starters for quests that require  a group or much higher level to complete (and often give nothing but a couple silver)</P> <P> </P> <P>btw, why are my btw's always a lot longer than my origional posts? bleh.</P><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:52 AM</span>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miral wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as for the post right above mine... thats part of the problem of the EQ2 economy.... SOE needs to make artisan its on subclass like was origionally planned. Allow everyone to choose whether they want to keep their adventurer or artisan class, then give a boost in the favored class modified by the level of the lost class...<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This could be a bit of a problem since no adventurer could even do basic backpacks, arrows or tier1 food themselfes.....which would mean for prices these full-time-artisans then charge....?<BR>

[Miral]

<DIV>edit read message wrong</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>well the idea is that the adventurer would collect components from fallen monsters and then go to an artisan to have the components crafted into a usable item. Also in the origional design, crafters could group to craft bigger adn better things <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and who knows, maybe you could have a crafter in your adventure group and get like better rewards or something?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You wouldn't have people just leveling up their crafting skills to supply themselves while adventuring... This would have a couple of effect....</DIV> <DIV>1) More market for crafted items. All crafted items would be either sold or given away.</DIV> <DIV>2) The effect of this is it would increase supply in the economy, and increase demand even more.</DIV> <DIV>3) Prices would really be lower I think, if this were implemented right. More people would be willing to buy the crafted items, so crafters could afford to lower their prices a bit. This is similar to say, PS2 games that get a lower price after they sell so many copies.</DIV> <DIV>-----Could maybe have grouped crafting drastically lower the time it takes to craft things?</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Miral on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:32 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:40 AM</span>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<DIV>Dont get me wrong @Miral, your posts are well-thought and by no means aggressive but somehow they sound like you want to put crafters *into their place* and degrade them to nothing more than suppliers for the *heroes* being dependent on them to bring high-class components AND dependent again when they want to sell them their stuff...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why deny crafters to adventure?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and why deny adventurers to pick up a proffesion - maybe at lvl 40 when they probably need a change?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since only a neglectable number plays EQ2 like it was an economy sim and only levels crafting but most players have at least some levels of crafting to make the occaasional food, backpack or armor....having to decide between crafter and adventuerer would only mean a large increase in alts imho</DIV>

[0ctavi]

Personally I like most the changes. There are some I have mixed feelings about, and I have a feeling many others feel the same way, as I have seen more leave the game since this last update, than at any other time so far...In response to what someone said about prices being too high right now and there needing to be a change, there is no real way to do that except with a wholesale changing of the way that people price their wares. Personally I tend to price mine lower than anyone I know simply because of a simple method I use. Instead of going by what other peopl price the same items at, I go to a vendor (the wholesaler) and see what he would buy it back at. I then double that. So if a typical tier3 food item goes for something like 1s 50c to a vendor, then I would sell it to players for 3s (this is of course using the new pricing dynamics SOE put in recently) This makes players MUCH happier and I still make a profit.Economics is not always an easy thing. The cheaper you go, the more volume you sell. The more volume you sell and the more time you have to spend replenishing that volume. It becomes a balancing act, but a good crafter knows how to balance it.<p>Message Edited by 0ctavius on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:14 AM</span>

[Fle]

<DIV>The only way the last patch hurt me was in my pocket and im not complaining. Let me explain.</DIV> <DIV>I have been playing for 4 months now and i play as both an Adventurer (lvl 36 enchanter) and a Crafter (lvl 38 weaponsmith). I level both up as i go along.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The most fun for me is exploring zones and killing stuff, hunting for treasure and grouping / soloing if i just prefer to be alone. When i started i would go out killing stuff and collect resources at the same time. A lot of my early earnings came from selling those resources.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like to craft when i cant get a group or i just dont feel up to soloing and fancy a change of pace. Before the patch making money was so easy, all i had to do was make weapons and sell them to the vendor for a huge profit. Now im sure SOE didnt intend for crafters to do this although it has to be done because there is no way to sell all the weapons i make to players, there just isnt the demand. With the increase in the cost to fuel i can't now make those huge profits but i understand why they did it. The price of tier 3 fuel does seem a little too steep mind and might need looking at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>Attunable Items </U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again not too much of a problem with this as i only play 1 char and don't twink. If someone is buying all there equipment of the broker or other players then yer it's gonna hurt a bit. But your quested items and items that drop from named mobs do not cost you anything to start with anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like the added challenge of making money and will see how it goes.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Fleet on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:27 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Fleet on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:28 AM</span>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR> <DIV>Dont get me wrong @Miral, your posts are well-thought and by no means aggressive but somehow they sound like you want to put crafters *into their place* and degrade them to nothing more than suppliers for the *heroes* being dependent on them to bring high-class components AND dependent again when they want to sell them their stuff...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why deny crafters to adventure?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and why deny adventurers to pick up a proffesion - maybe at lvl 40 when they probably need a change?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since only a neglectable number plays EQ2 like it was an economy sim and only levels crafting but most players have at least some levels of crafting to make the occaasional food, backpack or armor....having to decide between crafter and adventuerer would only mean a large increase in alts imho</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Not trying to deny them adventure, just keeping them from picking up a great axe and lopping off heads with the same strength as a pure warrior.... I mean, if you want to make it like multiclassing (TOTAL level of artisan and adventure is capped at 50), that would be just great. So if someone wanted to be truly self sufficient they would cap out at level 25 pre-expansion. Obviously there would need to be some changes to recipe books and all that, but... not going to fill this thread up with details. If a dev expresses any interest in perhaps making this a reality now or in a future expansion or something, I'd be more than willing to detail out to make it as simple as possible <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Some examples of multi-classed possibilities:</P> <P>pure 50 artisan (or adventurer) -- competely specialized</P> <P>40 adventurer, 10 artisan (or vice versa) -- "I'm forty years old... perhaps it is time that I lay down me sword and pick up a pen."</P> <P>30 adventure, 20 artisan (or vice versa) -- "Yar, I be makin me own armor since I was a wee boy... It's not the best stuff I could use, but it gets the job done."</P> <P>25 / 25 split (hybrid) -- "I'm a jack of all trades, but master of none."</P> <P>Message Edited by Miral on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:43 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>I wonder how many times this will be edited? Anyways, just wanted to add that some quests would obviously need to be changed to allow an artisan to do them as well, and perhaps even some quests added solely for artisans. Any non-killing courrier quest and the collection quests would need to be doable by artisans and give them experience as well.</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Oh yeah one last thing... let Zek, EL, etc. tickets be bought at any level, or at least allow the character's TOTAL level to be considered instead of one or the other.</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Miral on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:50 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>last edit I swear! Just wanted to say that could even allow subclassing between the different artisan or adventure classes =P like say a 30 shadownight / 20 necro or something <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:52 PM</span>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 0ctavius wrote:<BR>In response to what someone said about prices being too high right now and there needing to be a change, there is no real way to do that except with a wholesale changing of the way that people price their wares. Personally I tend to price mine lower than anyone I know simply because of a simple method I use. Instead of going by what other peopl price the same items at, I go to a vendor (the wholesaler) and see what he would buy it back at. I then double that. So if a typical tier3 food item goes for something like 1s 50c to a vendor, then I would sell it to players for 3s (this is of course using the new pricing dynamics SOE put in recently) This makes players MUCH happier and I still make a profit.<BR> <P>Message Edited by 0ctavius on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:14 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Please move to Steamfont, we need a crafter like you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> a tier 3 food on steamfont would go for 20-30 silver, which most people can't afford to pay for single piece of food except other greedy crafters or those who made a bunch of money using bugs that were in the game at release.... Someone in my guild made 10 plat in a week at level 25 artisan back before a lot of these patches.... I struggle to have enough for spell upgrades and keeping my armor at least green <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[iplasports]

<DIV><FONT size=3>I am thinking that of all the posts i have read there is a fix or what ever you want to call it that hasn't been mentioned or tried.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>That being why  have people change armor so often ? Answer because its is available.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Well if items were unusable to players til higher levels instead of getting a wealth/ (not for few classes) of new choices each level that are orange  make new orange items only avaliable after 5 new levels this may (imo) help to  lower the number of items available if you also were to raise the sell back value to crafters to the npc merchant in tradeskill instance only!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>That way the crafter can make some money if a item isn't selling but also would stop a ton of items from going out to  market if the market is over flowing (supply) why make more if cant make money .. this is where better sell back would hel;p crafters. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>As far as raising fuel costs and item production i think is ok but have to be a way to off set  if you want new crafters to be able to get to the higher levels so they can "supply" some of the adventurers needs .<BR>Anyway just a thought  may be worthless but its out there now. thanks for listening to my rant.:smileywink:</FONT></DIV>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miral wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Not trying to deny them adventure, just keeping them from picking up a great axe and lopping off heads with the same strength as a pure warrior.... I mean, if you want to make it like multiclassing (TOTAL level of artisan and adventure is capped at 50), that would be just great. So if someone wanted to be truly self sufficient they would cap out at level 25 pre-expansion. Obviously there would need to be some changes to recipe books and all that, but... not going to fill this thread up with details. If a dev expresses any interest in perhaps making this a reality now or in a future expansion or something, I'd be more than willing to detail out to make it as simple as possible <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Some examples of multi-classed possibilities:</P> <P>pure 50 artisan (or adventurer) -- competely specialized</P> <P>40 adventurer, 10 artisan (or vice versa) -- "I'm forty years old... perhaps it is time that I lay down me sword and pick up a pen."</P> <P>30 adventure, 20 artisan (or vice versa) -- "Yar, I be makin me own armor since I was a wee boy... It's not the best stuff I could use, but it gets the job done."</P> <P>25 / 25 split (hybrid) -- "I'm a jack of all trades, but master of none."</P> <P>Message Edited by Miral on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:43 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>I wonder how many times this will be edited? Anyways, just wanted to add that some quests would obviously need to be changed to allow an artisan to do them as well, and perhaps even some quests added solely for artisans. Any non-killing courrier quest and the collection quests would need to be doable by artisans and give them experience as well.</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Oh yeah one last thing... let Zek, EL, etc. tickets be bought at any level, or at least allow the character's TOTAL level to be considered instead of one or the other.</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Miral on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:50 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>last edit I swear! Just wanted to say that could even allow subclassing between the different artisan or adventure classes =P like say a 30 shadownight / 20 necro or something <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Miral on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:52 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>For some unknown reason you mangae to make me question my point of view everytime you post :smileysurprised:</P> <P>A total cap is something worth looking upon - I played NwN on the Bastions of War PvP server and it was interesting to be allowed to level in 3 classes knowing that at 40 it will be over and you'll have to live with your choices for the rest of your PvP life.</P> <P>The easiest thing to make people think about mixing adventure and crafter classes is to a<FONT color=#ffff00>dd all XP one character gets to a total pool </FONT>which determines how much XP you earn per mob/recipe - for an example:</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>lvl 30 adventurer / lvl 0 crafter  gets 4% XP for mobXY01 </FONT><BR>but<BR><FONT color=#ff9900>lvl 30 adventurer / lvl 30 crafter gets 2% XP for mobXY01</FONT><BR><FONT color=#ffff00>because he acumulated <STRONG>the double amount of total game XP </STRONG>than the pure adventurer </FONT>- of course the same goes for tradeskilling whre crafters whos adventure level is much higher than their artisans get less XP for the same recipe than a pure crafter of the same level.</P> <P>So what would probably happen? BOTH  *pure* adventurer and  *crafter* fanatics could relax as no lvl 50 of the *other side* would decide to level just for a change or to prove something <FONT color=#ff9900>because it would damage the furter progression in his *main* interest (50 is not the end as we all know )</FONT></P> <P>And I agree that since we can allready have adventurer + artisan<FONT color=#ffff00> it wouldnt be such a big deal to allow 2 adventurer classes or 2 artisan classes on one character as long as the XP are counted <STRONG>on a total basis</STRONG></FONT>. If someone wants to be healer/tank he can, it just takes 100% longer to reach 30/30 than for 2 different characters to reach 30 each.</P> <P>Make the *allowance* to multiclass as an adventurer or crafter a pita quest and motivation could skyrocket - especially for those allready at lvl 50 in any profession.</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>02-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:06 AM</span>