Druids do more dps than scouts???

[Thunndar6]

<DIV> That's right you heard me, druids got a boost in dps, to the point that they outdamage assasins and dirges, there is somethin seriously wrong with that, and already druids have stopped being healers and turned into nukers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Umm this wasn't mentioned in the patch, and I'd like to hear why Devs thought this was ok and needed?</DIV>

[Bad_Mojo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thunndar666 wrote:<BR> <DIV> That's right you heard me, druids got a boost in dps, to the point that they outdamage assasins and dirges, there is somethin seriously wrong with that, and already druids have stopped being healers and turned into nukers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Umm this wasn't mentioned in the patch, and I'd like to hear why Devs thought this was ok and needed?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> What druid abilities got a boost?

[jfo]

wow... i need to get out my room selling and start nuking then. on a good day, chaining up divine strikes i could crack 2300 in damage per fight and i know i was still behind assasins and wizzies.

[Valta]

<DIV>druids were always doing more damage then scouts, actualy I know 3 druids who do more damage (of course with their spells ) then my swashbuckler and with the patch they tank now 100x better then my templar and 100000x better then the swashbuckler....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>regarding moorgards list of damge tables: mage -> scout -> tank -> priest... I realy wonder how it comes. Btw my templar and the shaman of a friend realy do less damge then the scout, but druids are out of league... they outdamage everyone. As far as I remember someone stated druids lvl 46 DD is making more damage then the lvl 50 mage spells?</DIV>

[Bad_Mojo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valtaya wrote:<BR> <DIV>druids were always doing more damage then scouts, actualy I know 3 druids who do more damage (of course with their spells ) then my swashbuckler and with the patch they tank now 100x better then my templar and 100000x better then the swashbuckler....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>regarding moorgards list of damge tables: mage -> scout -> tank -> priest... I realy wonder how it comes. Btw my templar and the shaman of a friend realy do less damge then the scout, but druids are out of league... they outdamage everyone. <FONT color=#ffff00>As far as I remember someone stated druids lvl 46 DD is making more damage then the lvl 50 mage spells?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I couldn't tell you if that's the case or not, though I will say that just because one or two spells does high damage does not mean a class does more DPS than another.  DPS is "Damage Per Second."  If that spell has a 30 second recast on it, and a 5 second cast time, then you can divide any damage by 35 right off the bat for DPS - It's not just face value.  A nuke that hits for 200 every 10 seconds is <EM>far</EM> better than one that hits for 400 every 30 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I actually parse, on live, and when the crap hits the fan and the scout classes are actually using their abilities, I come no where close to matching them in DPS.  As I said, that's live though, maybe something is different on test, which is why I asked what got boosted?</DIV>

[Thunndar6]

<DIV> This is on live, we parsed for over an hour, 8 out of 10 times the druid did about 150 to 200 more per fight on ^^'s . And keep in mind the assasin and myself were spaming moves nonstop and setting up HO's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> The druid was also the only healer, so was healing inbetween nukes/dots, he wasn't even trying to be a hardcore dps unit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Somethin is seriously out of whack. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Thunndar666 on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:55 PM</span>

[jfo]

even on full mana burn in the back-up spot, i top out at 55-60 in dps. granted, i haven't gone out to kill anything today, but scouts should and have always owned me in-terms of damage. were the procs being counted towards the player whom the spell was cast on, or the druid themselves?

[Bad_Mojo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thunndar666 wrote:<BR> <DIV> This is on live, we parsed for over an hour, 8 out of 10 times the druid did about 150 to 200 more per fight on ^^'s . And keep in mind the assasin and myself were spaming moves nonstop and setting up HO's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Somethin is seriously out of whack. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>150 to 200 more DPS?  Yeah, that's not right.  Remember though that parsing can sometimes be skewed - Example, I have a spell that does @ 254 (DD).  If I cast it, and only it, during the fight, my DPS is reported as 245 damage per second with some parsers.</P> <P>Or did you mean total damage?  Though that still doesn't sound right.  Any idea what spells he was using and what the level was? We had another discussion not long ago, and a Warden claims with Adept III and Master level spells he can indeed keep up with other classes...  I'd be interested to know - also, was he a Warden or a Fury?</P>

[Tatali]

No no no! You misunderstood! Nerfing the Str bonus FIXED scouts, it didn't hurt them! It magicly put them right where they belong in the great scheme of things! Everything is fluffy pink bunnys and candy roses now!/sarcasm

[Valta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bad_Mojo wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <DIV>I couldn't tell you if that's the case or not, though I will say that just because one or two spells does high damage does not mean a class does more DPS than another.  DPS is "Damage Per Second."  If that spell has a 30 second recast on it, and a 5 second cast time, then you can divide any damage by 35 right off the bat for DPS - It's not just face value.  A nuke that hits for 200 every 10 seconds is <EM>far</EM> better than one that hits for 400 every 30 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I actually parse, on live, and when the crap hits the fan and the scout classes are actually using their abilities, I come no where close to matching them in DPS.  As I said, that's live though, maybe something is different on test, which is why I asked what got boosted?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is not just as simple... a druid (or any other caster) do not have only one spell.</P> <P>My templar have 4 different DDs with 4 different timers. I have to cast all 4 DD spells to have the first one I used be ready again. All 4 do nearly the same damage.</P> <P>I am not lvl 50 yet, but I am pretty sure this will not change when I will hit that level. Druids may have a 30s recast timer on their uber nuke, but they still have another nukes they can use. Their DPS may be not THAT high but still high enough.</P> <P>The point is, priests should have no spell that do more damage then any mage/scout independent of any recast timers. Even when the timer would be one hour, its not about damage per second, in EQ2 short fights it comes to damage on hit. When the druid casts and gets instant agro that cant be removed by the tanks, there is something wrong.<BR></P>

[Miral]

<DIV>furies SHOULD have fairly decent dps... I mean, they are stuck in light armor, dont get as many buffs as other piriests (or even mages or scouts for that matter), and they really don't have as good of heals as other priests...</DIV>

[jfo]

well, there might be your problem then. we can cycle through four dd spells as well at any given level. two dots and two nukes. taken to the higher levels, adept3, they can hit for some nice amounts, 50 and 35 or so per tick on the dots around level 30, and a bit over 300 on the primary nuke, the lower grade one will hit four about 150 or so. we can cycle through the others on divine judgement heroics, or que up a wrath of the ancients and hit for around 800 or so, but keep in mind those would be top of the line spells and heroic opps backing them up.if the druid/warden/fury was chaining these up and having the procs from the buffs count towards thier total, we can score some insane numbers, but it's not really a true value of how much damage we can do. if a scout were to chain up lucky bites, he'd have far higher numbers.believe me, i'd be the happiest girl if what you were saying was true.<p>Message Edited by jfood on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:12 PM</span>

[Bad_Mojo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valtaya wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is not just as simple... a druid (or any other caster) do not have only one spell.</P> <P>My templar have 4 different DDs with 4 different timers. I have to cast all 4 DD spells to have the first one I used be ready again. All 4 do nearly the same damage.</P> <P>I am not lvl 50 yet, but I am pretty sure this will not change when I will hit that level. Druids may have a 30s recast timer on their uber nuke, but they still have another nukes they can use. Their DPS may be not THAT high but still high enough.</P> <P>The point is, priests should have no spell that do more damage then any mage/scout independent of any recast timers. Even when the timer would be one hour, its not about damage per second, in EQ2 short fights it comes to damage on hit. When the druid casts and gets instant agro that cant be removed by the tanks, there is something wrong.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>The original poster mentions DPS, not burst damage.<BR></P> <DIV>You have 4 DD's that all do the same damage and are recastable in sequence like that?  I'd guess then that Templar's can outdamage Furies - As a Fury I have one decent DD (250-ish), my next largest single target DD is does only 80 damage.  And there is nothing below that.  I also have one AoE that does 120-130 or so, but the cast/recast times are longer than most.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you guys are talking about "Wardens" and not so much "Druids" as a whole.  Furies get the better DoT's I believe, and Wardens the better DD's.  In fact, your statement on DD's made me curious, and even Templar's get more DD's than Furies <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the "no spell that does more damage" - I disagree.  There are levels and spell ability to think about.  For example, I would fully expect a 50th Druid to do more damage than a 20th scout, hands down.  I would also exepect a druid that has invested in Adept III spells to outdamage a same level scout that is still relying on apprentice I's.  And a druid doesn't need to cast a DD to get aggro, ask any druid that has made the mistake of casting a HoT on the tank prior to a pull, or cast a buff at the same time as the pull.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Bad_Mojo on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:12 PM</span>

[Thunndar6]

<DIV> I beleive he was a fury, he was 26 , I am 24, all my abilities are ap4 to adept 1's ( mostly adept 1 ) , which is common at our lvl, WE were chaining HO's like mad, oftentimes getting the 2 to 3 chain HO's, Some of my moves from them were doing 270ish, and was enough to get a mob mad at me, but the druid was getting more agro and the tank was actually having a tough time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I understand mages being able to outdo scouts damage wise, but a druid/fury? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I just find it odd becuase prior to this patch I've never seen that, and I have a 32 necro as well so am pretty familiar with the midlvl side of the game.</DIV>

[jfo]

he'd have one nuke big nuke, with possibly an additional one from the training upgrade, and chill. the big one caps at about 240 or so at that level. he'd have no proc spells that would go off, with the exception of maul or blessed weapon and those are somewhat rare.i think your parser is broken dood.<p>Message Edited by jfood on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:19 PM</span>

[Proudfoot]

<blockquote><hr>Thunndar666 wrote:<DIV> That's right you heard me, druids got a boost in dps, to the point that they outdamage assasins and dirges, there is somethin seriously wrong with that, and already druids have stopped being healers and turned into nukers.</div><DIV> </div><DIV> </div><DIV> </div><DIV> Umm this wasn't mentioned in the patch, and I'd like to hear why Devs thought this was ok and needed?</div><hr></blockquote>So a possible burst in DPS by a Druid has ruined your day. Why?So many people with their forceful views, wow.

[Miral]

<DIV>yeah druids, particularly furies, were weak before, they needed a boost somewhere... wardens get better heals, buffs, and an evac, so furies get more damage...</DIV>

[Obsi]

<DIV>Druids class for sure have a balance problem.</DIV> <DIV>  Like in all pure PVE content game, a class with self buff + group buff that stacks together + Heals (in a game were the interrupt rate in close cmbt is quite low) and a crazy solo HO (my warden friend regulary hit for 300 + when he dont get pow regen oh) have the upper hand in solo mode.</DIV> <DIV>  Yes, upper hand. </DIV> <DIV>In group they already are a GREAT addition, i dont see why give them such tools in Solo.</DIV> <DIV>I always thought the game would be rounded like many others MMO : the most solo powerfull, the less group viability  and the reverse.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  A quick and really easy solution to this would be to make Group buff and Solo buff NOT stacking together. </DIV> <DIV>This way you would still have guud buffing at disposal for classic solo ( classic to me mean u cant solo ++ light green con ) and still provide the EXACT same buffing capacibility to the group you join.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Oh and please either give 300 dmg HO to everyone or just cut that one in 2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Obside</DIV>

[Shade]

<blockquote><hr>Obside wrote:<DIV>Druids class for sure have a balance problem.</DIV><DIV> Like in all pure PVE content game, a class with self buff + group buff that stacks together + Heals (in a game were the interrupt rate in close cmbt is quite low) and a crazy solo HO (my warden friend regulary hit for 300 + when he dont get pow regen oh) have the upper hand in solo mode.</DIV><DIV> Yes, upper hand. </DIV><DIV>In group they already are a GREAT addition, i dont see why give them such tools in Solo.</DIV><DIV>I always thought the game would be rounded like many others MMO : the most solo powerfull, the less group viability and the reverse.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> A quick and really easy solution to this would be to make Group buff and Solo buff NOT stacking together. </DIV><DIV>This way you would still have guud buffing at disposal for classic solo ( classic to me mean u cant solo ++ light green con ) and still provide the EXACT same buffing capacibility to the group you join.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> Oh and please either give 300 dmg HO to everyone or just cut that one in 2.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> Obside</DIV><hr></blockquote>OMG !!! What is wrong with you people, let me guess your all the same people that posted the 50 page whine about SK's getting horses and managed to get their speed buff nerfed. Our dps is ok but it's never been great and has NOT been changed. As healers, we work our tail's off dealing with AGRO managment, STUPID tanks, jumping support players, high prices of having little to no choice in upgrading our spells many of which are broken and thats just for starters, now let me guess... now you want us to be nerfed for what little dmg we can do and what little ability we have at enjoying SOME sort of solo experience. What is this need to dump on other people's playing experience. Oh and to the OP, if your scout was being out damaged by any sort of Druid, they were complete [Removed for Content], I group regularly with scouts and they out-damage me hands down, no questions asked. If you dont know anythinga bout the class, shutt up.

[Kit_Oturea]

<DIV>31 fury here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fought in Nek last night.  I was back-up healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My DPS was 20-26 dps</DIV> <DIV>Swash's       50-70 dps</DIV> <DIV>Monk        </DIV>

[Kit_Oturea]

<DIV>31 fury here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fought in Nek last night.  I was back-up healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My DPS was 20-26 dps</DIV> <DIV>Swash's        50-70 dps</DIV> <DIV>Monk        </DIV>

[Kit_Oturea]

<DIV>31 fury here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fought in Nek last night.  I was back-up healer.</DIV> <DIV>Rough averages:</DIV> <DIV>My DPS         20-26 dps</DIV> <DIV>Swash's        50-70 dps</DIV> <DIV>Conjurer        30-45 dps</DIV> <DIV>Mystic (main healer)</DIV> <DIV>Coercerer     10-30 dps (doing lots of Mezzing)</DIV> <DIV>Guardian       25-35 dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is really NO WAY you can compare us unless the mob has very few hit points and our DD hits first and is also the DD which kills the mob.  I was often the HO completer as well.  I could see you saying something about the MT, but he likes to focus on taunting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the OP is a bit on crack.  It was extremely rare anyone could beat the swash in DPS.  In other groups only the monks seem to have a chance (though I have not grouped with a warlock/wizard since the last patch).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Furies (specifically) need their heals fixed and conjurers (it looks like) need their DPS increased.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>See ya,</DIV> <DIV>Rakk</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Bad_Mojo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Obside wrote:<BR> <DIV>Druids class for sure have a balance problem.</DIV> <DIV>  Like in all pure PVE content game, a class with self buff + group buff that stacks together + Heals (in a game were the interrupt rate in close cmbt is quite low) and a crazy solo HO (my warden friend regulary hit for 300 + when he dont get pow regen oh) have the upper hand in solo mode.</DIV> <DIV>  Yes, upper hand. </DIV> <DIV>In group they already are a GREAT addition, i dont see why give them such tools in Solo.</DIV> <DIV>I always thought the game would be rounded like many others MMO : the most solo powerfull, the less group viability  and the reverse.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  A quick and really easy solution to this would be to make Group buff and Solo buff NOT stacking together. </DIV> <DIV>This way you would still have guud buffing at disposal for classic solo ( classic to me mean u cant solo ++ light green con ) and still provide the EXACT same buffing capacibility to the group you join.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Oh and please either give 300 dmg HO to everyone or just cut that one in 2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Obside</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Uh, never played a druid archetype eh?  Nice generalizations :rolleyes:</P>

[Thelah]

<DIV>Is there a log, hopefully over many fights, that you could post?</DIV>

[Lancealittle]

<DIV>There have been a couple buffs to Fury damage in recent patches. We have had the damage in our solo HO upped and they fixed a problem where our cold and divine dots were not stacking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a Fury, but I don't parse my fights, so I don't know how I stand in damage.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing to note is that with damage HOs it seems that the last person to finish the chain gets credit (and the agro) for the damage. We were chaining damage HOs with my group the other night and I pulled agro from the main tank for the first time in many hunts together. Perhaps the parser you were using was taking this into account.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The devs do look at dps and have made many changes so far, so if what the OP says is true, then I bet we see changes in the future. It may be that scouts are not doing enough damage. </DIV>

[Gyrs]

This may be a silly/stupid question, but who gets the "credit" for damage from an HO? The party who initiated it, the one who completed it, neither, both? Don't know squat about parsing etc., just seems to me that assignment of HO damage could skew things a bit. Like if I got full credit for the damage from an HO done with a scout class. Couldn't have done it without the scout, but all the damage gets "credited" to me. Just curious. Anyone have an answer?(ducks head quickly hoping to avoid 600 pts fire damage...)

[Bad_Mojo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gyrsan wrote:<BR>This may be a silly/stupid question, but who gets the "credit" for damage from an HO? The party who initiated it, the one who completed it, neither, both? Don't know squat about parsing etc., just seems to me that assignment of HO damage could skew things a bit. Like if I got full credit for the damage from an HO done with a scout class. Couldn't have done it without the scout, but all the damage gets "credited" to me. <BR><BR>Just curious. Anyone have an answer?<BR><BR>(ducks head quickly hoping to avoid 600 pts fire damage...)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> The person that completes the HO gets the credit.  This may indeed skew a lot of results, I duo with a Monk almost 100% of the time, and during HO's where I want her to take the effect (heals, crippling shroud) I have to tell her to hold off and let me get my part of the completion done.  Her skill fire off so much faster than mine, that if I don't have her wait and we both just hit abilities to complete it, I am <EM>always</EM> the completer of the HO.

[DionysosTom]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shadena wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Obside wrote:<BR> <DIV>Druids class for sure have a balance problem.</DIV> <DIV>Like in all pure PVE content game, a class with self buff + group buff that stacks together + Heals (in a game were the interrupt rate in close cmbt is quite low) and a crazy solo HO (my warden friend regulary hit for 300 + when he dont get pow regen oh) have the upper hand in solo mode.</DIV> <DIV>Yes, upper hand. </DIV> <DIV>In group they already are a GREAT addition, i dont see why give them such tools in Solo.</DIV> <DIV>I always thought the game would be rounded like many others MMO : the most solo powerfull, the less group viability and the reverse.</DIV> <DIV>A quick and really easy solution to this would be to make Group buff and Solo buff NOT stacking together. </DIV> <DIV>This way you would still have guud buffing at disposal for classic solo ( classic to me mean u cant solo ++ light green con ) and still provide the EXACT same buffing capacibility to the group you join.</DIV> <DIV>Oh and please either give 300 dmg HO to everyone or just cut that one in 2.</DIV> <DIV>Obside</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>OMG !!! What is wrong with you people, let me guess your all the same people that posted the 50 page whine about SK's getting horses and managed to get their speed buff nerfed. <BR><BR>Our dps is ok but it's never been great and has NOT been changed. As healers, we work our tail's off dealing with AGRO managment, STUPID tanks, jumping support players, high prices of having little to no choice in upgrading our spells many of which are broken and thats just for starters, now let me guess... now you want us to be nerfed for what little dmg we can do and what little ability we have at enjoying SOME sort of solo experience. <BR><BR>What is this need to dump on other people's playing experience. Oh and to the OP, if your scout was being out damaged by any sort of Druid, they were complete [Removed for Content], I group regularly with scouts and they out-damage me hands down, no questions asked. <BR><BR>If you dont know anythinga bout the class, shutt up.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can only confirm what obside says : Light green++ easy, dark green ++ pretty hard <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I m the "my warden friend"</P> <P>I dont want us to be nerf but sure the HO is crasy combined with the divination debuff from our training : over 350 once <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ( at level 40)</P> <P>And the aggro : If u have a good tank : NO PROBLEM at all<BR></P> <DIV>"STUPID tanks, jumping support players, high prices of having little to no choice in upgrading our spells"</DIV> <DIV>Everybody is affected by that not only druids .... </DIV> <DIV>Yes there is not much adept 1 on broker that perhaps right : but it seems to be the same for inquisitor and for defiler (from guildmate's opinion)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> "many of which are broken  "</DIV> <DIV>Well I will say : One thing : Be happy from what you have one day you will know what is a nerf ....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tomas </DIV> <DIV>_________________________</DIV> <DIV>Sisquia</DIV> <DIV>Level 41 Runnyeye, 42 Jeweler</DIV><p>Message Edited by DionysosTomas on <span class=date_text>02-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:19 PM</span>

[jfo]

man... i nuke at 550 with the divine judgement heroic at level 32... your scout friend isn't doing all the damage he or she could be. maybe it's a language thing, but this thread continually makes less and less sense.

[Thunndar6]

<DIV> It may have been a warden, I really don't remember , I just remember that everyone in the group was shocked that the druid was healing, and then nuking, and somehow kept landing at the top of the dps list on the parser.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Maybe the damageshield was also a factor , once again I am unsure.</DIV>

[Suraklin]

<DIV>God more people to gripe because they think if someone outdamages their class it has to be fixed. How about liking the fact that you can get someone in a group who can do damage. If people keep griping the devs are gonna nerf everyone and everyones going to do 1 point of dmg per hit or nuke one of these days.</DIV>

[Deci]

<DIV>Up front I'm not on test but seeing as the OP stated in a later post it was regarding live I feel ok to comment <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a 26 Fury and also have a 15 Pred and I always parse my fights. To make a carte-blanche statement regarding any classes dps or their dps within a group is very misleading.</DIV> <DIV>As a fury I can look at my parser after a fight and see I am higher than other classes who you would think are more likely to be much higher than me such as a wizard. When I look back to the actual game I'll then notice their power is at half while mine is burnt out or in the parser it's obvious I was lucky and didn't get any fizzels or resists etc.</DIV> <DIV>It's also the way the class is played isn't it. As a Predator I have been in a group with other Scouts and wiped the board with them on DPS. I know I'm not an uber player so either they were slacking or really didn't know how to play their class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For full on max damage and both classes going for the maximum they can then there is no way that a fury will out damage a scout based class. Until a few levels ago on my fury, my pred was out damaging (in dps) with ease but there would be some fights where this wasn't the case.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So yes it's possible I will out damage other classes in my group but it will take an unusual set of circumstances for me to continuously out damage a scout based class.</DIV>

[DionysosTom]

<DIV>the 350 damage is only the divine judgement and it  depends on the mob you are fighting but it s common that on a levle 37 ++ mob I hit at 300+ for the divinie judgement and if you add the damage done withthe spell use to finish the HO over 600 sometimes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV>><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=6569" target=_blank><SPAN>Thunndar666</SPAN></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hint 1: Use poisons.</DIV> <DIV>(When you start doing this you will no longer be complaining about this issue)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hint 2: Find out what combos of abilities gives you the best damage output, dont just spam em all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hint 3: Find out if he was using adepts to your apprentice spells, and check if your weapon combo is efficient.</DIV> <DIV>As an example, your damage is probably better with a one handed weapon than dual wielding.</DIV>

[Eynki]

<DIV>This was mentioned a few times i Just dont think people get it........Each class has benifits/drawbacks....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Furies sacrifice wearing heavier armors and some healing/buffs to have nukes... that is the whole purpose of a fury, to do damage and heal.. templars are strait healers(best in the game) and shamans do healing buffs/debuffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A fury is supposed to do ok damage, at least more than all the other priest classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the persons with the parsers.....You might want to check the settings or have someone else with a different parser verify you findings. I used to duo with a fury and he would tank heal and cast his DPS spells.. every once in a while we would have my pet tank and he would just nuke.....from those experiences i can honestly say there is no way in my opinion thaty a fury can out damage a scout... Take a look next time at total damage delt (Not DPS) and tell me a fury can dish out more than a scout.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[quetzaqotl]

<DIV>you guys are wrong furies are healers who buff agi and give a group more dps through buffs at lvl 43 here i have 2 to 3 buffs (not counting conc spells) and in a HO i can do 700 dmg (mostly around 500 dmg tho) to some mobs (about 400 for my nuke and 300 for finishing the HO).</DIV> <DIV>Man we can heal the least efficiently and many spell effects are broken and you want us to be nerfed in the only part we're quite good at??</DIV> <DIV>If the devs are gonna nerf my dps then I'm gonna lvl my summoner alt and back off my fury cause that would so suck.</DIV> <DIV>Furies should be aggresive healers Wardens are defensive healers if wardens do the same dps as furies then that should be looked into.</DIV> <DIV>Scouts always outdps me btw if you can't outdps a druid then you quite suck my friend.</DIV><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>02-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:05 AM</span>

[Ram]

<DIV>Quote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's right you heard me, druids got a boost in dps, to the point that they outdamage assasins and dirges, there is somethin seriously wrong with that, and already druids have stopped being healers and turned into nukers. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Umm this wasn't mentioned in the patch, and I'd like to hear why Devs thought this was ok and needed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>What have your been smoking?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>At level 45 my best nuke does 150 to maybe 200 damage which can take up to 5 seconds to cast and another 7 to 8 for a recast timer.  My best weapon hit is around 12 to 40 sometimes I might break 50 on a blue moon.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>So please by all means tell me that we can out damage you??????????</FONT></DIV>

[Sunfire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thunndar666 wrote:<BR> <DIV> That's right you heard me, druids got a boost in dps, to the point that they outdamage assasins and dirges, there is somethin seriously wrong with that, and already druids have stopped being healers and turned into nukers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Umm this wasn't mentioned in the patch, and I'd like to hear why Devs thought this was ok and needed?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are high.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Druids have minimal damage capability at best - they cant even chain nuke due to their down-time between nukes.  Wizard DPS is far higher than druid DPS and that still is lower than scout DPS so I don't where you were misled but unless you have a parse I can promise you, you're wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just to add - I'm a lvl 29 Warden.  These are my nukes:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adept III Smite:</DIV> <DIV>Adept I Chill</DIV> <DIV>Adept I Cold Snap (+ dot)</DIV> <DIV>Adept I Stinging Swarm (+dot)</DIV> <DIV>Adept I Frost</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you cast those 1-2-3-4-5 you still cannot chain - you'll have to wait a few seconds due to recast delay.  Some of these spells take 4s just to cast.  The 2 dots are VERY easily resisted and rarely land more than 50% of the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My DPS parses against green^^ mobs when I'm NOT healing at all, just nuking, put me around 50 DPS - and at least 10 if not 20 of that is from meleeing in Adept III Wolf Form with a pristine steel scimitar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of my best RL friends is a 27 scout - 2 levels below me - and he can easily hit 100 DPS when we play together and his gear and abilities aren't nearly as good as mine - although he does use poison.</DIV><p>Message Edited by SunfireII on <span class=date_text>02-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:57 PM</span>

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ramia wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>So please by all means tell me that we can out damage you??????????</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>He is probaly just really bad at playing his class and everyone outdamages him.</DIV>

[Arkenor]

<DIV>I'm a templar. I get to wear heavy armour, and my reactive heals are agro free (currently). My damage output is feeble, but thats alright. I can take my time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Druids wear leather and their regens are currently massively agroing. In my opinion, they ought to have decent DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are 6 different final priest classes, each with their own strengths. Druids happen to be the ones who can do the most damage fastest, but are the easiest to kill. Worry less about what 3rd party software is telling you, and worry more about how much your healer is enjoying the game.</DIV>

[Dragonreal]

<DIV>I haven't parsed in a long time, but back when I was I would average 2k total dmg per fight (sorry never paid attention to the actual dps number); at this time, the scouts and casters I grped with averaged 2500 to 3k dmg per fight... the casters actually got closer to 4k unless they were being lazy and my guild leader (assassin) would also be closer to 4k. I've never been higher than 3rd or 4th in the dmg list and when I was up at number 3 it meant I had a second hlr who refused to cast dmg spells and/or the dps in grp was lower than I was and/or there was a mezzer. </DIV>