Oh it's even worse than you guys think. The real truth on the attuned buyback farce...

[digitalblasphemy]

Once and for all I'm going to debunk this BS about merchants buying back attuned gear. Every supporter of this doomsday attune change has chimed in on how merchants will buy back an item, so therefore the patch is good and we all win, for the good of the game, yada yada yada. Well here's the cold hard truth.Be VERY VERY careful what you click on to sell at a merchant. You can now sell your uber Heritage quested items by mistake and I doubt any GM is going to help you reclaim it.So here's the numbers peopleElectrified Bone Bladed Claymore (no one in their right mind would ever sell this item, but you can now with this new patch) = <b>5g 97s 33c</b>rubicite vanguard cuirass = <b>6g 40s</b> (which by the way is the exact amount I had mentioned yesterday in a previous post you would get for it)Robe of the Invoker (this is a joke right? it is only the most saught after robe in entire game) = <b>6g 72s</b>Polished Granite Tomahawk (an uber weapon with one of the best procs in the game) = <b>1g 12s</b>Hierophant's Crook (again an uber proc weapon) = <b>5g 97s 33c</b>Fishbone Earring (the enduring breath earring) = <b>1g 28s</b>Serrated Bone Dirk (the famous SBD) = <b>1g 12s</b>Short Sword of the Ykesha = <b>4g 48s</b>ruby ring (the +9 sta one) = <b>3g 20s</b>a piece of thulzite (this used to sell for 20g to a npc vendor) = <b>1c</b>I won't list the current day prices of non quested items above, as anyone who knows these items, will know these new prices are an insult.There you have it folks. SOE have listened to all the whining and moaning and fixed the game for you guys. You should be jumping for joy now that you will be able to control the market place with your unlimited supply of crafted items. Adventurers are now 100% screwed in this game. While I don't have the guts to just pack-up and leave, I know others will and have already.So time to dig in, bust out hold the line and say enough is enough. If SOE listend to the crafters before, then it's out turn to speak.1) Attunement has to go, there is another way to help the crafters, but this is not it.2) Let us place flags on an uber item so there cannot ever be an accidental selling of said item to a merchant. Do this for you own good, as you will, I promise you this, be flooded with /petitions about how little billy accidently sold his EBBC to the merchant. Since when in anygame you have made can you now sell an attuned item like any other item?3) The farce with these buyback prices has to end. Either give us good prices or give our gear back in the form of removing attunement.<p>Message Edited by digitalblasphemy on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:05 AM</span>

[Miral]

<DIV>not a fan of this patch myself, but I do feel I need to add something here. People, keep your uber rare heritage items either equipped, in your bank, or in your house vault.</DIV>

[aeio]

You didn't really debunk anything.Noone expected merchants to give them 100 pp per item when they sold it back.What this means is you need to buy items at a price that provides equivelent value as to what your character can get out of using it... You simply can't buy an item with the prospect of making money off of reselling it.I logged in, and attunement is fine. I am going to wait until tonight and replace a few items with newer upgrades before I go out hunting, otherwise I have no problem with it.People who can not deal with change should not be playing MMOGs.This change happens to be for the better.

[Knomedig]

<DIV>digitalblasphemy wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <HR> Adventurers are now 100% screwed in this game.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Ur nuts ...adventurers still have the same chance to make coin as they always have :smileysurprised:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to ur thought on selling ur uber gear by accident....i jus say ur a [Removed for Content] if u dont pay attention to what you sell to a merchant........DOH:smileywink:</DIV>

[digitalblasphemy]

Oh I debunked it alright, you just dont have a clue what those items are worth. I was not expecting to get paid in plat for an item, but I certainly did not expect to get 4g for an item that yesterday sold on the brokers for 1pp. A value of 20-30g would have been more in line with what those items are worth. But 4g for a current market value of 1pp? If you can defend that, then you're a bigger idiot than I could ever give you credit for.

[Dashofpepp]

<DIV>/agree with aeiouy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  You don't walk around in real life with your life savings and hope not to get robbed.  You bank what you don't need or stuff it under your mattress, or invest in in cheap booze and...things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crafters aren't going to be able to "flood" the market with overpriced goods because there is such a thing as competition.  Its going to pick up even more.  Just like food and drink...everyone thinks the price is going to shoot up...its not.  All the provisioners raking in cash doing tradeskill writs are going to have to supply the public to make money.  Sooo...enter competition.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Retribution - Befallen</DIV>

[Dashofpepp]

<DIV>digital...it sells on the broker for 1pp because FEW PEOPLE HAVE THEM.  Give it a year until everyone has them.  Then they'll be on the broker for 10g.  Unless you propose that Soe make weekly changes to NPC buying prices to account for player decisions and inflation....then yeah...this is the only way to do it.</DIV>

[Miral]

<DIV>I think that attuned items should give merchant resale of wha tthe merchant would charge if he were selling that item, like how horse owners can sell back their horses for FULL PRICE</DIV>

[digitalblasphemy]

<blockquote><hr>Dashofpepper wrote:<DIV>digital...it sells on the broker for 1pp because FEW PEOPLE HAVE THEM. Give it a year until everyone has them. Then they'll be on the broker for 10g. Unless you propose that Soe make weekly changes to NPC buying prices to account for player decisions and inflation....then yeah...this is the only way to do it.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Dash you made a funny here. So in 1 years time, even if the market is flooded with these items, I will still be able to get 10g for it on the flooded market, while right now I only get 6g from the vendor. Am I the only one who finds this troubling? You just admitted that in the old system, in 1 years time, I would get more for it, than I get for it now, current day.

[RioR]

<DIV>This is the biggest mistake SOE has made with EQ2 so far. They didn't even test it for a month to see how it plays out in the economy. That was very foolish.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileysad:</DIV>

[Lairdragna]

<DIV>I've come to the conclusion that SOE's test server is only for finding bugs... and they do a [Removed for Content] poor job at that.  Nobody has taken the time to study the impact on the economy of this, yet they claim it is to fix it.  Well unless your name happens to be Laffer or you have a Noble prize in economics I think you should leave the forecasting to professionals and test your proposed changes before implementing them.  Seriously, this is a fatal case of rectal cranial inversion!</DIV>

[Cru]

<DIV>This wouldn't be so bad if you weren't penalized for using grey-con weapons. It's actually how "that other game" works, and their economy is fine. But if I'm going to shell out BANK for a sword, I should be able to use it past its level window without it losing effectiveness. I've been using the same weapon in "that other game" for 10 levels, and have no intention of upgrading soon because it's a [FAAR-NERFED!] fine weapon that I paid alot of cash for and can't sell. It'll eventually become outdated, but it will never lose effectiveness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remove any penalties from using grey-con items. Forced upgrades are the real-life equivalent of having to buy a new TV every 6 months.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[theplayer0670]

A perfect answer to mudflation <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>get over it or move on</DIV>

[aeio]

<blockquote><hr>Crumm wrote:<DIV>This wouldn't be so bad if you weren't penalized for using grey-con weapons. It's actually how "that other game" works, and their economy is fine. But if I'm going to shell out BANK for a sword, I should be able to use it past its level window without it losing effectiveness. I've been using the same weapon in "that other game" for 10 levels, and have no intention of upgrading soon because it's a [FAAR-NERFED!] fine weapon that I paid alot of cash for and can't sell. It'll eventually become outdated, but it will never lose effectiveness.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Remove any penalties from using grey-con items. Forced upgrades are the real-life equivalent of having to buy a new TV every 6 months.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>This is only applicable to high end raid encounters.

[aeio]

<blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:Oh I debunked it alright, you just dont have a clue what those items are worth. I was not expecting to get paid in plat for an item, but I certainly did not expect to get 4g for an item that yesterday sold on the brokers for 1pp. A value of 20-30g would have been more in line with what those items are worth. But 4g for a current market value of 1pp? If you can defend that, then you're a bigger idiot than I could ever give you credit for.<hr></blockquote>So because you overpayed for something you debunked it?You knew this was going to live servers, because you have been posting about it for days. If you bought an item yesterday and it was not worth 1pp for you and you alone to use, then you screwed up. Take responsibility for your own mistakes.<p>Message Edited by aeiouy on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:42 AM</span>

[digitalblasphemy]

<blockquote><hr>aeiouy wrote:<blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:Oh I debunked it alright, you just dont have a clue what those items are worth. I was not expecting to get paid in plat for an item, but I certainly did not expect to get 4g for an item that yesterday sold on the brokers for 1pp. A value of 20-30g would have been more in line with what those items are worth. But 4g for a current market value of 1pp? If you can defend that, then you're a bigger idiot than I could ever give you credit for.<hr></blockquote>So because you overpayed for something you debunked it?You knew this was going to live servers, because you have been posting about it for days. If you bought an item yesterday and it was not worth 1pp for you and you alone to use, then you screwed up. Take responsibility for your own mistakes.<p>Message Edited by aeiouy on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:42 AM</span><hr></blockquote>I did not buy an item yesterday for 1pp nor have I bought anything apart from food the past several days. I was listing the current market values for those items. I currently have all those items and except for a few of them, they were all quested or looted. But some of the rubi armor I had purchased in the past with the knowledge at that time I purchased it, that when the time came to sell it, I would get more than a few cents on the dollar for it. Basically I would get market value at the time of selling it. Now all I get is 6g for an item I paid close to 1pp for and which would have sold on the brokers for 50-75g.

[Svan]

<DIV>i dont really see the importance of know or posting the selling price of heritage quest rewards to merchants. you're not supposed to do those quests so you can sell them to a merchant and get uber cash, you're really not supposed to sell them at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you paid 1pp for something that now sells for 6gp, then that's your own [FAAR-NERFED!] fault. SoE didnt force your hand to move your mouse over the purchase button in the broker window and made you click it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>there are always posts on this board about all the major changes that are comming. read them next time.</DIV>

[Miral]

<DIV>really though what sony has done is remove all resale value. can you imagine real world economy if you couldn't resell a car or home?</DIV>

[Svan]

<DIV>there is still a resale value, it's just very low. kinda like what happens when you buy a brand new car and sell it a few years later. you dont get much money back. plus, you're not buying dropped stuff, so bad resale doesnt really apply to half the items in the game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what Sony has really done is made a never ending demand for crafted stuff. which i'd say is pretty good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: btw, digitalblasphemy, im still waiting to see you debunk something. all i saw was some over-reacting, price listings, and some stupid ideas for fixing something that was just fixed.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Svanny on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:27 PM</span>

[Miral]

<DIV>no its worse than that. this is like buying a car for 22,500 and selling it for 500, even just two days later. plus theres the whole expensive classic car thing... cars have resale values that change over time depending on the desirability of the vehicle. this just flat out removes it (just giving a tiny percentage... like how you can insult  a waitress more by giving her a few pennies than nothing at all)</DIV>

[Svan]

<DIV>but this is a game. a fantasy world. with an economy filled with supernatural things that do not exist and cant. it's gonna be different than what we have in real life.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but anyway, his post was mostly on quested heritage items, not all items. and as i said before, you're not supposed to do those quests so you can sell them for cash. so his post is pretty much garbage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>those heritage quest items were also nodrop before they were made attunable, so you're proposed sellback for whatever someone would normally sell them to another play for wouldnt work either. you should be glad you're anything for them.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Svanny on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:44 PM</span>

[BlackHa]

<DIV>OMG....the same adventurer verse crafter debates that I saw in Horizons. Is this a sign of things to  come?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Seems to me that many crafters were satisfied with low fuel prices and decent sell back prices .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Seems to me that many adventurers were happy with tradeable loot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But now "in the best interest of the game", we have to start pitting the adventurers against the crafters. I saw it in SWG, I saw it in Horizons, and now I'm seeing it here. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So anyone know of any new revolutionary MMO's in development?.</DIV>

[Sypris]

Yep, World of Diablo! or maybe World of Starcraft! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Maybe they'll just do a whole co-op called World of EverDiablocraft!<p>Message Edited by Sypriss- on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:47 PM</span>

[Svan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackHair wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Seems to me that many crafters were satisfied with low fuel prices and decent sell back prices .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Seems to me that many adventurers were happy with tradeable loot.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>seems to me that letting this continue was gonna hurt the economy of the game in time. so it was changed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>no, this is not an adventurers vs crafters thread. this is some guy over-reacting because they did some optional quests for things that they couldnt use and now they want to get a ton of cash for it.</DIV>

[Tinn]

<DIV>Bah who cares?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tinnan on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:03 PM</span>

[Kasandria]

I agree with the thread starter actually and I have no uber quested items. I don't think he's asking to make a ton of loot from his quested stuff. He's asking it to be impossible to sell it by mistake. I think that's very reasonable.As to the attunable nerf. I'm totally against it and after six years of being in their world now I'm taking a week off to be in my world now. There are other better answers. This isnt' it. Items that cost me 90 silver I can now sell for 3 silver. This doesn't really count towards helping recoup my costs. I don't expect to make 100 percent back. I do expect to make a reasonable amount back with some loss for wear and tear on items that I can only use for a few weeks before they turn grey. Do I expect them to attune the buy back prices every week? Well if that's what it takes to make it fair, yes. No one forced them to put this system in and if it requires a lot of work on their part to make it work then that's what they should do or find a more equitable less labor intensive system. I'm getting really tired of paying for a game that's still in beta.

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sypriss- wrote:<BR>World of EverDiablocraft! <P>Message Edited by Sypriss- on <SPAN class=date_text>02-17-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:47 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>World of Ultima EverDiablocraft Wars Online 2: with extra anarchy!!</DIV>

[Proudfoot]

<blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:Once and for all I'm going to debunk this BS about merchants buying back attuned gear. Every supporter of this doomsday attune change has chimed in on how merchants will buy back an item, so therefore the patch is good and we all win, for the good of the game, yada yada yada. Well here's the cold hard truth.Be VERY VERY careful what you click on to sell at a merchant. You can now sell your uber Heritage quested items by mistake and I doubt any GM is going to help you reclaim it.So here's the numbers peopleElectrified Bone Bladed Claymore (no one in their right mind would ever sell this item, but you can now with this new patch) = <b>5g 97s 33c</b>rubicite vanguard cuirass = <b>6g 40s</b> (which by the way is the exact amount I had mentioned yesterday in a previous post you would get for it)Robe of the Invoker (this is a joke right? it is only the most saught after robe in entire game) = <b>6g 72s</b>Polished Granite Tomahawk (an uber weapon with one of the best procs in the game) = <b>1g 12s</b>Hierophant's Crook (again an uber proc weapon) = <b>5g 97s 33c</b>Fishbone Earring (the enduring breath earring) = <b>1g 28s</b>Serrated Bone Dirk (the famous SBD) = <b>1g 12s</b>Short Sword of the Ykesha = <b>4g 48s</b>ruby ring (the +9 sta one) = <b>3g 20s</b>a piece of thulzite (this used to sell for 20g to a npc vendor) = <b>1c</b>I won't list the current day prices of non quested items above, as anyone who knows these items, will know these new prices are an insult.There you have it folks. SOE have listened to all the whining and moaning and fixed the game for you guys. You should be jumping for joy now that you will be able to control the market place with your unlimited supply of crafted items. Adventurers are now 100% screwed in this game. While I don't have the guts to just pack-up and leave, I know others will and have already.So time to dig in, bust out hold the line and say enough is enough. If SOE listend to the crafters before, then it's out turn to speak.1) Attunement has to go, there is another way to help the crafters, but this is not it.2) Let us place flags on an uber item so there cannot ever be an accidental selling of said item to a merchant. Do this for you own good, as you will, I promise you this, be flooded with /petitions about how little billy accidently sold his EBBC to the merchant. Since when in anygame you have made can you now sell an attuned item like any other item?3) The farce with these buyback prices has to end. Either give us good prices or give our gear back in the form of removing attunement.<p>Message Edited by digitalblasphemy on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:05 AM</span><hr></blockquote>You mean to tell me people just 'randomly' click the sell button when they want to sell some items to an NPC merchant?However do you not sell your food? /gaspWhat about that Adept book you found for your friend? /oopsSo, according to you, because attuned items are sellable, idiots will flock in droves to sell them on accident.I can't believe this is even a point of confrontation for the Attuned items.

[digitalblasphemy]

Again I have to explain something that is obvious from the get go. I HAVE no intention to, and will NEVER sell my heritage items I earned questing. There were used as examples of how bad the buy back rates are. If you people think they are worthless and a 1g buyback rate is more than enough for a heritage item (again I never said I or anyone in their right mind would sell one), then you cannot grasp how this effects adventurers who for a large part, fund their playing with the buying of new equipment from both crafters/brokers and offsetting that with selling their old gear. If the rates were an insult for the heritages items (again I have to remind the person who in 2 replies time is going to post some sarcastic remarks on how I'm trying to profit from selling my heritages items, when I have no intention of doing so), then one can only imagine what the amounts will be for the avg looted items. I listed the heritage items as they are large and part some of the best items in this game. The point is the prices for your attuned gear and other such items you would normally have sold are going to even be worse than the examples I had posted for the heritage items. If the values given by the npc vendor were bad for the heritage items, they will be abismal for the regular dropped stuff.

[SunT]

<DIV>IF they increase the price of attunable items they will essentially recreate the same problem they already had.  Which was, SOE established artificial price supports which stiffled supply and opened doors for exploits where a crafter could sit in a crafting zone and 'Create' unlimited amounts of money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Though you cannot see this yet because the game is young, this would have destroyed the economy for ALL players.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You would have had a class of insanely rich crafters that would have bought anything good taht hit the market and prices would be so far out of reach for the adventurer taht he would be left with table scraps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are MANY crafters in all classes on every server now.  The prices will fluctuate for a bit but then settle in to a reasonable level based on simple supply and demand balanced by competition.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can think of several better ways of fixing the issues that we had prior to the patch BUT I Don't work for SOE...neither do you.  It is a 'good enough' patch to fix the economy.  It will work in the long run.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a few weeks things will be stable and workable.  Crafters will make some money, adventurers will sell thier finds for more than they are selling them for now and there will be supply and liquidity that the economy desperately needs right now to grow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stop the Chicken Little whining and go play the game.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[SmakenDah]

<DIV>While I don't <EM>entirely </EM>agree with Digital, an increase in the value of selling attuned items would be good. If you're not a tradeskiller, your option for earning cash is currently limited to drops. This isn't nearly as efficient as tradeskilling where you don't have to decide whether to Attune an item or try to sell it so you can afford an upgrade elsewhere.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tradeskillers can produce an infinite amount of product with a better chance of success than a pure adventurer can - as an adventurer you have to rely on the big drop then possibly winning it (assuming you're in a greed-type loot group). As a tradeskiller you can forage components (and now craft subcomponents) as needed. It takes time, but you're not facing as much risk nor do you have to compete with others every time you forage something (let's face it, the worthwhile stuff comes from group mobs mainly).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Create a separate sell back for non-crafted Attuned items and I'll be happy. I don't say increase it for crafted Attuned items because that might be exploitable; crafter creates an item, attunes it and sells it for a higher price than they would have if they just sold it to a merchant unattuned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Risk versus reward.</DIV>

[Wardermast]

<DIV>Well once again the sony can do nothing wrong crowd jump on the player that speaks out. First, Where in the hell does a 27th lvl pally earn the 1 plat to replace his now valueless armor. The vendors now pay 1/3rd what things used to fetch. Yet those dishonest people that caused this crazinees are well above the damage caused once you got your final set of armor you wont need to sell it. Yeah under old system since november I managed to get 2pp me and 2 alts. I cant afford the fuel costs to make items so market price means nothing to me. and if raising the cost to make food will make it more abundant that is true nobody will be able to buy it at all. I made my coin thru selling harvest then when that market crashed because there was way more stuff harvested then can be used I changed to skill trades which actually made me no real profit by time I bought new books and advanced books I broke even. Now that is all done I am finished I grow weary of dealing with people that punish the decent honest players and reward the dishonest. </DIV>

[Svan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> digitalblasphemy wrote:<BR>Again I have to explain something that is obvious from the get go. I HAVE no intention to, and will NEVER sell my heritage items I earned questing. There were used as examples of how bad the buy back rates are. If you people think they are worthless and a 1g buyback rate is more than enough for a heritage item (again I never said I or anyone in their right mind would sell one), then you cannot grasp how this effects adventurers who for a large part, fund their playing with the buying of new equipment from both crafters/brokers and offsetting that with selling their old gear. If the rates were an insult for the heritages items (again I have to remind the person who in 2 replies time is going to post some sarcastic remarks on how I'm trying to profit from selling my heritages items, when I have no intention of doing so), then one can only imagine what the amounts will be for the avg looted items. I listed the heritage items as they are large and part some of the best items in this game. The point is the prices for your attuned gear and other such items you would normally have sold are going to even be worse than the examples I had posted for the heritage items. If the values given by the npc vendor were bad for the heritage items, they will be abismal for the regular dropped stuff.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> it's really not as hard to make money as an adventurer as you're making it out to be. adepts and all the gear you grab that you dont choose to attune is all worth pretty much what it was pre-patch. so you're only taking a hit from the armor you replace every 10 lvls and a few slots inbetween. and unless you're some powergamer that exp grinds 24/7, you're gonna have plenty of time to collect money in those 10 lvls for the upcomming upgrades.

[Wasc]

<blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:Oh I debunked it alright, you just dont have a clue what those items are worth. I was not expecting to get paid in plat for an item, but I certainly did not expect to get 4g for an item that yesterday sold on the brokers for 1pp. A value of 20-30g would have been more in line with what those items are worth. But 4g for a current market value of 1pp? If you can defend that, then you're a bigger idiot than I could ever give you credit for.<hr></blockquote>I'll defend that. I'll defend that because your idea of the "current market value" is a question of <b>supply and demand</b>, not a question of item value to an NPC. They are, and always have been, totally different.What SOE is trying to do here is prevent crafting from causing a ridiculous upset in supply and demand. With this patch your precious supply and demand is PROTECTED, rather than obliterated.Here's how it works: * You can still offer to sell items for as much plat as you think someone will pay, unless that item is NO-DROP, NO-TRADE, or <b>ATTUNED</b>. Notice I said <b>ATTUNED</b>, and not <b>ATTUNABLE</b>: there is a difference! In other words, if you go out and personally earn the (hypothetical) Heritage item <u>Coldain Velium Pick-Axe</u> and it is <b>LORE</b> & <b>ATTUNABLE</b> but not NO-TRADE, then you are welcome to put it right onto the market. If you craft a <u>Pristine Steel Halberd</u> then it will be <b>ATTUNABLE</b>, but you can make and sell as many of these on the open market as you like.If you ATTUNE an ATTUNABLE item, so that you and you alone can use it, then you CANNOT sell it to another player. Merchants will still offer you <i>something</i> for them, and that something is a calculated value based on the fuel cost that was necessary in order to craft the item.This change is very simple. Its purpose is to prevent the resale of crafted items from overwhelming what supply and demand the market will bear. It prevents items from being ridiculously expensive and it prevents items from being ridiculously cheap. This helps keep your gold from devaluing, and this helps to make sure that there is still a reason to craft at all in six months.

[Cast]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wascen wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> digitalblasphemy wrote:<BR>Oh I debunked it alright, you just dont have a clue what those items are worth. I was not expecting to get paid in plat for an item, but I certainly did not expect to get 4g for an item that yesterday sold on the brokers for 1pp. A value of 20-30g would have been more in line with what those items are worth. But 4g for a current market value of 1pp? If you can defend that, then you're a bigger idiot than I could ever give you credit for.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I'll defend that. I'll defend that because your idea of the "current market value" is a question of <B>supply and demand</B>, not a question of item value to an NPC. They are, and always have been, totally different.<BR><BR>What SOE is trying to do here is prevent crafting from causing a ridiculous upset in supply and demand. With this patch your precious supply and demand is PROTECTED, rather than obliterated.<BR><BR>Here's how it works:<BR>* You can still offer to sell items for as much plat as you think someone will pay, unless that item is NO-DROP, NO-TRADE, or <B>ATTUNED</B>. Notice I said <B>ATTUNED</B>, and not <B>ATTUNABLE</B>: there is a difference! In other words, if you go out and personally earn the (hypothetical) Heritage item <U>Coldain Velium Pick-Axe</U> and it is <B>LORE</B> & <B>ATTUNABLE</B> but not NO-TRADE, then you are welcome to put it right onto the market. If you craft a <U>Pristine Steel Halberd</U> then it will be <B>ATTUNABLE</B>, but you can make and sell as many of these on the open market as you like.<BR><BR>If you ATTUNE an ATTUNABLE item, so that you and you alone can use it, then you CANNOT sell it to another player. Merchants will still offer you <I>something</I> for them, and that something is a calculated value based on the fuel cost that was necessary in order to craft the item.<BR><BR>This change is very simple. Its purpose is to prevent the resale of crafted items from overwhelming what supply and demand the market will bear. It prevents items from being ridiculously expensive and it prevents items from being ridiculously cheap. This helps keep your gold from devaluing, and this helps to make sure that there is still a reason to craft at all in six months.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wascen wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> digitalblasphemy wrote:<BR>Oh I debunked it alright, you just dont have a clue what those items are worth. I was not expecting to get paid in plat for an item, but I certainly did not expect to get 4g for an item that yesterday sold on the brokers for 1pp. A value of 20-30g would have been more in line with what those items are worth. But 4g for a current market value of 1pp? If you can defend that, then you're a bigger idiot than I could ever give you credit for.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I'll defend that. I'll defend that because your idea of the "current market value" is a question of <B>supply and demand</B>, not a question of item value to an NPC. They are, and always have been, totally different.<BR><BR>What SOE is trying to do here is prevent crafting from causing a ridiculous upset in supply and demand. With this patch your precious supply and demand is PROTECTED, rather than obliterated.<BR><BR>Here's how it works:<BR>* You can still offer to sell items for as much plat as you think someone will pay, unless that item is NO-DROP, NO-TRADE, or <B>ATTUNED</B>. Notice I said <B>ATTUNED</B>, and not <B>ATTUNABLE</B>: there is a difference! In other words, if you go out and personally earn the (hypothetical) Heritage item <U>Coldain Velium Pick-Axe</U> and it is <B>LORE</B> & <B>ATTUNABLE</B> but not NO-TRADE, then you are welcome to put it right onto the market. If you craft a <U>Pristine Steel Halberd</U> then it will be <B>ATTUNABLE</B>, but you can make and sell as many of these on the open market as you like.<BR><BR>If you ATTUNE an ATTUNABLE item, so that you and you alone can use it, then you CANNOT sell it to another player. Merchants will still offer you <I>something</I> for them, and that something is a calculated value based on the fuel cost that was necessary in order to craft the item.<BR><BR>This change is very simple. Its purpose is to prevent the resale of crafted items from overwhelming what supply and demand the market will bear. It prevents items from being ridiculously expensive and it prevents items from being ridiculously cheap. This helps keep your gold from devaluing, and this helps to make sure that there is still a reason to craft at all in six months.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This was brought on by the crafters whining plain and simple. I saw enough of them complain about everything under the sun, now theyre pretty much the only ones able to make coin and then they have to jack the price up to make up for fuel price. How is this fixing a game economy? It isnt it just means crap is going to cost more to the point there are the uber elite crafters with full guild support making things and then the others unable to make or buy things left in the cold.</P> <P>They should have just done as theyve been doing and nerf. Only this time nerf the hell out of the crafting classes that were making money hand over fist. <BR></P>

[Erronn]

<DIV>I think we should thank SOE just for even LETTING us sell back attuned items! Usually, attuneable items once attuned become nodrop and no sell back! Be glad you even get something for an attuned item!</DIV>

[Cast]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Erronn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think we should thank SOE just for even LETTING us sell back attuned items! Usually, attuneable items once attuned become nodrop and no sell back! Be glad you even get something for an attuned item!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Be glad? ROFL I want whatever your on. Why make every single thing in the game attuneable to begin with? Answer, so crafters make more money. <BR>

[Erronn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Castor wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Be glad? ROFL I want whatever your on. Why make every single thing in the game attuneable to begin with? Answer, so crafters make more money. <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm ON air, since you wondered. Anyway, why all the "crafter" hate? Doesn't making items attuneable help adventurers make more money also? Yes! </P> <P>Artisans "create" sellable items by sitting in their dungeon and pushing buttons.<BR></P> <DIV>Adventurer's "create" sellable items by running around Norath and pushing buttons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both can sell their "creations" to other players. And when they sell their item, they know once it is attuned, it will be taken out of circulation. Thus, their "new" creations will also have value.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really don't see how this is a boon for artisans...nor how it hurts adventurers...</DIV>

[Tealdea]

I really must apoligize to everyone for this patch, it's my fault. One night I put a Platinum coin of Grobb (found in Fallengate, not rare at all) up on the broker for 1pp as a joke (to get people to search for store owner and check out all my other items for sale at good prices) and someone bought that coin for, yes, 1pp. SOE must have seen that and said "OMG OMG OMG PEOPLE ARE MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY ON LOW LEVEL ITEMS.... and lets say crafting too, ya crafting... THIS IS WRONG FOR PLAYERS WHO ARE JUST STARTING THE GAME!!!" and hence, the patch live update #3 ladies and gentlemen.

[digitalblasphemy]

<blockquote><hr>Erronn wrote:<DIV>I think we should thank SOE just for even LETTING us sell back attuned items! Usually, attuneable items once attuned become nodrop and no sell back! Be glad you even get something for an attuned item!</DIV><hr></blockquote>You're in the wrong neighborhood if you think people in here are "glad" about this attune change. Why should I thank SOE for letting me sellback my attuned gear. It wasn't high end raid gear or quested items that were and have always been attuned. It was other reg gear that was never attuned to begin with. Now the investments used to purchase those items are completely lost. I'm supposed to be happy that I can get 20g from equipment that fetched 3-4pp before this patch? Yeah didn't think so.

[Svan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> digitalblasphemy wrote:<BR><BR>You're in the wrong neighborhood if you think people in here are "glad" about this attune change. <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>im glad.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> I'm supposed to be happy that I can get 20g from equipment that fetched 3-4pp before this patch? Yeah didn't think so. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>um, yes. since they could have just as easily made them not sellable at all.

[Cast]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Svanny wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> digitalblasphemy wrote:<BR><BR>You're in the wrong neighborhood if you think people in here are "glad" about this attune change. <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>im glad.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> I'm supposed to be happy that I can get 20g from equipment that fetched 3-4pp before this patch? Yeah didn't think so. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>um, yes. since they could have just as easily made them not sellable at all.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What planet to do you live on? Are you one of the cheap exploiters that made all the money the easy way now your set and not worried? </P> <P>Ok then lets push the price of fuel up and make everything rare. Any gathering and harvesting youll only get 1 item per every 100 things you harvest on. That should offset the money crafters make and what others make. <BR></P>

[digitalblasphemy]

<blockquote><hr>Svanny wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><P><HR>digitalblasphemy wrote:You're in the wrong neighborhood if you think people in here are "glad" about this attune change.<HR></P></BLOCKQUOTE><P>im glad.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>I'm supposed to be happy that I can get 20g from equipment that fetched 3-4pp before this patch? Yeah didn't think so.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>um, yes. since they could have just as easily made them not sellable at all.<hr></blockquote>I m supposed to be greatful for that? That's like saying I got robbed but the guy who robbed me, threw me a nickel as you ran off with my wallet. Yeah I'm gratefull alright. I've just been robbed and insulted all in one go.<p>Message Edited by digitalblasphemy on <span class=date_text>02-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:33 PM</span>

[Svan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Castor wrote: <P>What planet to do you live on? Are you one of the cheap exploiters that made all the money the easy way now your set and not worried?<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>actually, no. i've never touched tradeskills and have never farmed anything but the occasional green named for loot. right now i have more money than i know what to do with, and i even vendored about 75% of everything i looted pre patch, as i can never stay up in broker mode.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV> <HR>  I m supposed to be greatful for that? That's like saying I got robbed but the guy who robbed me, threw me a nickel as you ran off with my wallet. Yeah I'm gratefull alright. I've just been robbed and insulted all in one go. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>so... lemme get this straight, this guy robbed you, gave me your wallet, and pelted you with nickles while i ran off with it? lol</P> <P>still, it's better than nothing.</P>

[Bethin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> digitalblasphemy wrote:<BR>Oh I debunked it alright, you just dont have a clue what those items are worth. I was not expecting to get paid in plat for an item, but I certainly did not expect to get 4g for an item that yesterday sold on the brokers for 1pp. A value of 20-30g would have been more in line with what those items are worth. But 4g for a current market value of 1pp? If you can defend that, then you're a bigger idiot than I could ever give you credit for.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>How about I debunk you?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>If they let you sell attuned items on the vendor for more than the crafter can sell them back to a vendor to break even guess what they will do?  Yep, attune it and sell it for more.  Doesn't can't much thought on to why the prices are what they are.</P> <P>I'm guessing that the price you get for crafted items is same as the crafter would get if they sold them to vendor which is the break even prices of making it.  Right?  If it is more than I guess I found a nice little loophole in the system.</P>

[Feaw]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Proudfoot wrote:<BR><BR><BR>You mean to tell me people just 'randomly' click the sell button when they want to sell some items to an NPC merchant?<BR><BR>However do you not sell your food? /gasp<BR>What about that Adept book you found for your friend? /oops<BR><BR>So, according to you, because attuned items are sellable, idiots will flock in droves to sell them on accident.<BR><BR>I can't believe this is even a point of confrontation for the Attuned items.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Accidents do happen.    If the item is of such status that one would not hope to upgrade it then I dont think you whould be able to sell it to a vendor for a tiny fraction of its worth.   </DIV>

[Rock]

<DIV>I think what the OP misses is the advantages of the new attuned system. Yes you wont be able to sell to another player some uber loot but the fact you have so many pieces indicates you can get more. As times go on and more and more of the same pieces dropped the value of these pieces would continue to fall. How much more can you earn when you aquire one of these pieces and they are one of only a handful on the server? Dont think the selling to vendors is really an issue, no one keeps this kind of loot in their inventory, if you dont bank it right away and end up selling without looking you are an idiot.</DIV>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmakenDahed wrote:<BR> <DIV> If you're not a tradeskiller, your option for earning cash is currently limited to drops. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Can we talk about <FONT color=#66ff00>coin/hour</FONT>? I raised my smithing yesterday from 15 to 16,5 and did make 15 pieces of non-pristine chain armor in 4 hours (not counting the time to mine the iron as I do this during recovery time)</P> <P>I guess i can sell the stuff for about 40 silver each which is a whooping 4 gold after fuel/raw material cost (padding is a killer for armorers). So apart from the fact that it will take me a sh!tload of time to sell the stuff I can assure you that even my little 18 lvl adventurer can earn 1g/hour (soloing in antonica nets easily 1 adept I per hour)</P> <P>AND you are plain wrong about your options - harvest and you can live on the 2 rares you make in 4 hours, and if your didn't completely neglect your gathering skills you can make the same money on insects, bones and  shards which sell for everything between 1 and 50 silver depending on rarity.</P> <P>I know exactly what people like you want: Spend 100% of their time mob-bashing and earn big bucks while leveling.</P> <P>Diablo is still an option for you.</P>

[Alfred75]

Lol, you can say the buy back prices are worthless, or you can always put it in another perspective that the brokers are over-pricing. Its just a matter of how you argue, and how you think. You can say that a glass is half full or half-empty - just shows if you are an optimist or a pessimist.Anyways, stop whining if you sold something by mistake to the merchant. I sold stuff like non-sullied pelt to merchants, but I don't blame SOE but myself for being careless. Its like those idiots who sell their rhodium cluster for 2gp by mistake, then starts sending tells to the buyer the next day to get it back. And when they found out that the rhodium had already been made into ink, then spells and then scribed into spell books, they start flaming the buyer. Its amazing these people exist, but I have yet to have much luck buying mis-priced items.Lol, like people who farm language quests items such as the lizardmen language and shadowmen language, hear how they curse when they found out that all 4 language primers on their 4 characters are now no drop. Better still, listen to idiots trying to sell the stiletto orders for 2pp for months (and refusing to buldge to lower prices) swearing when orders begin flooding the market after patch was put in to remove unintended content.You buy the game, and manual states that changes are perpetual. You probably clicked accept without reading its contents, so live with it. Whining merely gives people a bad impression of you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Thunndar6]

<DIV> Alfred yer whining about whiners.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Pot meet kettle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Sony can choose not to listen to there customers, and those customers will move on to another game, hell it's already happening.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Although there are some good changes with this patch, there are also some horrible ones, attunement changes are going to bacvkfire, and have already when mixed with the increased costs to crafting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> They lessened there supply, but the demand is still there, therefore prices will rise, folks will get frustrated, and many will leave, especially crafters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> SoE needs a new crafting/economy  lead dev that actually understands how these things work,  becuase the current one keeps making things worse instead of better.</DIV>

[Alfred75]

In the simplest possible explanation, artisans and adventurers will make money by selling off their items, so its definitely not a artisan vs adventurer issue. Adveturers pick up armor pieces when hunting and sell the, while artisans make the armor pieces and sell them. The order of "quality" goes something like this.Highest Quality to Lowest:1. Master chest loot items2. Pieces from extremely hard and long quests3. Armor crafted from rare resources4. Armor drops from mobs and Armor crafted from normal resources5. Simple quest armor6. Merchant itemsBarring the rare stuff (1 to 3), artisans and adventurers have things quite equal. You get loot to sell to other players. Loot from either side of the coin will balance the prices of equipment i.e. no way artisan will sell below cost, and no way adventurer can oversell comparable armor over that of crafted items; vice versa. Granted an artisan can continually produce items for sale, they would have expended some significant amount on bringing up their skills, and also they run the risk of sunk costs in their items as well as the possibility of their items not selling.In a sentence, attuning allows adventurers to continue making money via adventuring, and artisans to continue making money via skills. Otherwise, there will 1001 of the same item in the game, in no time. If these items can be easily bought off the broker, there will be no motivation for adventurers to adventure and get drops off mobs, neither will there be motivation for artisans to make armor to sell. You need goods to move for new goods to come in. You need to have limited supply for an item to have value.This brings me to the cons of the recent patch:1. Allowing each tradeskill class to produce their basic components completely disrupts the inter-dependability of crafters. I love the initial system where I would need to buy chemicals from any friendly alchemist. Now, each class is quite alienated from each other because they are pretty much independent. No doubt I can make my own chemicals ( I am a T4 woodworker), but I don't really appreciate this change becuase it does not make sense economically - unless theres substantial additional costs involved to make these chemicals compared to that of the alchemist which there isn't any right now. Anyway, Alchemists are pretty much out of jobs right now until the prices of merchant sold poisons go up etc.2. Attuning items is a great idea, but its implementation sucks big time. Armor and jewellery can be attuned, but what happens to furniture? Furniture has an infinite lifespan and can be re-sold infinite times. Carpenters are put out of jobs - soon there will be infinite number of furniture and carpenters are basically useless classes.3. Personal dislike, though its good for the economy, is the tiered-fuel thingie. I am poor, and everytime I do my tradeskills, it takes a big chunk of my money away, leaving me quite poor to buy spells and stuff when they are available. You can ignore this point, just some dumb ranting from me haha

[Drtydog]

<DIV>talk talk talk </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>here is reality.  this has been out for a week or so or whatever, there is NO money in the game to speak of, and the armor almost doubled in price.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when you hit 30-32 there are no aq quests and you better have about 25-45 gold to upgrade your stuff.  You may say big deal, that's not very much money but for us that adventure only you won't make all that much money selling stuff back to the merchants taht you find.  This idea from all you tradeskilliers only that we make tons of Plat out there is [FAAR-NERFED!].</DIV>

[Lancealittle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> buoymarker28 wrote:<BR> <DIV>talk talk talk </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>here is reality.  this has been out for a week or so or whatever, there is NO money in the game to speak of, and the armor almost doubled in price.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when you hit 30-32 there are no aq quests and you better have about 25-45 gold to upgrade your stuff.  You may say big deal, that's not very much money but for us that adventure only you won't make all that much money selling stuff back to the merchants taht you find.  This idea from all you tradeskilliers only that we make tons of Plat out there is [FAAR-NERFED!].</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Then the crafters better lower their price. I'm level 31 and I have 12 gold in the bank and I've never sold a single item to another player. If I can get a piece of player made armor for under a gold each then I could buy something for every slot. Then I would need to save up for the next time I need to ugrade.</P> <P>The real issue is that people still have 'old money' from before the changes were made to lower the amount of cash entering the system. It would have been best to have the attune changes when the game went live so the market would have been based on the current amount of money entering it.</P>

[Platfing]

<DIV>Bah - let's just wipe all money from the game and start over.  That's the only way to be fair and equal to everyone at this point.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Platfinger wrote:<BR> <DIV>Bah - let's just wipe all money from the game and start over.  That's the only way to be fair and equal to everyone at this point.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If we can wipe lvls too i am in for it - this would be worth my 14 gold :smileyvery-happy:<BR>

[lilmohi]

<DIV>Attuning actually helps adventurers and tradeskillers, since they both sell 'new' items on the market.  My adventurer made tons of cash selling collection items, giant language idols, and various quested and droped armor/jewelry he couldn't ever use.  The biggest profit has allways been from the single use items like the idols and collection items(in one day i can fill my bags with 20+ collection items that sell for 10-50sp each), while armor and jewelry often won't even sell at merchant buyback.  With new attunement rules, i expect to make even more cash selling dropped/quested loot.  I'm nearly 30 so its going to hurt a bit buying new gear, but i have already banked 5 red-con armors, and 3 red con weapons that will be useable when my current gear turns blue.  I've made more than enough cash adventuring to upgrade my gear in the next few levels even with the price increase.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The best part is i have had several rare armors made and while i was previously looking at a total loss for them, i'll be able to merchant them off for a little bit of cash.</DIV>

[Talo]

<DIV> <P>For those of you who are worried about accidentally selling items to an NPC, you should know that there is a system in place for you to counteract that. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>If you sell an item to an NPC accidentally, you can re-buy that item back from that NPC for the same price you sold it for as long as you do not close the merchant window.</FONT></STRONG></P> <P>This fact is also stated in the guide “Things I wish I'd known earlier” found in the Newbie forum.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=47309" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=47309</A></P> <P>As for the price of heritage items being “low”, I think it is ridiculous to complain about it. Through the process of completing the quest for the heritage item you were rewarded enough already through experience, status points, and coin. The one thing I think they should add is the ability to add “mounts” to heritage items so you can place them in you home as a trophy when you are not using them.</P></DIV>

[Sha]

<DIV>First comment: I hate the attune thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second comment (and abit more productive): A easy solution to this entire problem, would be to get the 'money-on-corpses' thing back in the game. That way artisans still get a market that needs their products, and the adventurers got a way to afford to upgrade their equipment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont know how much it should be, to make it work. But a few cobber a kill, scaling with mob levels, divided among the group, could be the difference that made this entire situation work out for everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just a thought..</DIV><p>Message Edited by Shate on <span class=date_text>02-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:46 AM</span>

[Lanily]

<DIV>I think its more the fact that some bot-droods have made enough ingame money, and now its time to create a demand for it - so SoE cut the money gain possibilities and increased the need of new armors by making everything attuned. So people who want to upgrade armor, will have to buy ingame pp for real money... and IGE is paying a share for SoE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Great economy, isnt it? Probably a wrong guess, but we cant be sure...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lani</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Radulank]

<blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<blockquote><hr>Dashofpepper wrote:<DIV>digital...it sells on the broker for 1pp because FEW PEOPLE HAVE THEM. Give it a year until everyone has them. Then they'll be on the broker for 10g. Unless you propose that Soe make weekly changes to NPC buying prices to account for player decisions and inflation....then yeah...this is the only way to do it.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Dash you made a funny here. So in 1 years time, even if the market is flooded with these items, I will still be able to get 10g for it on the flooded market, while right now I only get 6g from the vendor. Am I the only one who finds this troubling? You just admitted that in the old system, in 1 years time, I would get more for it, than I get for it now, current day.<hr></blockquote>you still have the option to sell it for 1pp, or 10pp or what ever number you want. Oh, you mean you got use out of it and still want full price? Humm. So you equiped this item, wore it for 4 or 5 lvls. Got beat on by how many mobs? I see. It was repaired how many times? Really, that many? By a quality repair man i assume. And now you expect me to give you full value? Or to be able to sell it to some one else for the same 1pp you could have gotten for it when it was new. Nope. Not buying it.If you want to make money from your gear, sell it. If you want to get use out of it, use it. Seems pretty clear cut to me.just my 2cp

[Drtydog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lilmohi wrote:<BR> <DIV>Attuning actually helps adventurers and tradeskillers, since they both sell 'new' items on the market.  My adventurer made tons of cash selling collection items, giant language idols, and various quested and droped armor/jewelry he couldn't ever use.  The biggest profit has allways been from the single use items like the idols and collection items(in one day i can fill my bags with 20+ collection items that sell for 10-50sp each), while armor and jewelry often won't even sell at merchant buyback.  With new attunement rules, i expect to make even more cash selling dropped/quested loot.  I'm nearly 30 so its going to hurt a bit buying new gear, but i have already banked 5 red-con armors, and 3 red con weapons that will be useable when my current gear turns blue.  I've made more than enough cash adventuring to upgrade my gear in the next few levels even with the price increase.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The best part is i have had several rare armors made and while i was previously looking at a total loss for them, i'll be able to merchant them off for a little bit of cash.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>EXACTLY.  What you have become is a gatherer not an adventurer.  I agree with you that the only mkt out there really is collection quest items... thats the only way i can make any money.  Now, I do get lucky sometimes and when that armor with no stats drops off of a mob and i'm LUCKY enough to win the lotto i will sell that back to the merchant for like 15-50 silver.  Do the math.  At current prices on oggok it will take you close to 45 gold to upgrade armor and accessories....</P> <P>The nice thing before attunement was that you could combine you alts gold and acutally buy a set of items and pass them down.  I understand where this caused problems and i have really no problem with attunement...what i ahve a problem with is we are now gatherers scrounging bones and shards to make money...that's not fun...I agree with the original poster....allow the adventurer to make a lil cash so we can actually spend it and not by running around gathering question marks and then sitting in merchant mode all day....wow that is fun</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[rd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shate wrote:<BR> <DIV>First comment: I hate the attune thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A easy solution to this entire problem, would be to get the 'money-on-corpses' thing back in the game. </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Worst idea ever!<BR>

[Jazzdancer]

<DIV>SOE... it is time to start doing surveys again. Otherwise those of us who do not come to the forums to whine and rant, have the chance to have input as to the direction of the game. This last major patch was a big mistake in many ways. My friends and I are on the edge of quiting EQ2. You need to seriously consider this, instead of bowing to the loud.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jazzdancer on <span class=date_text>02-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:34 PM</span>

[Sha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rdwj wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shate wrote:<BR> <DIV>First comment: I hate the attune thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A easy solution to this entire problem, would be to get the 'money-on-corpses' thing back in the game. </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Worst idea ever!<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe.. But may I ask why ?<BR>

[Blackdog183]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> buoymarker28 wrote:<BR> <DIV>talk talk talk </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>here is reality.  this has been out for a week or so or whatever, there is NO money in the game to speak of, and the armor almost doubled in price.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when you hit 30-32 there are no aq quests and you better have about 25-45 gold to upgrade your stuff.  You may say big deal, that's not very much money but for us that adventure only you won't make all that much money selling stuff back to the merchants taht you find.  This idea from all you tradeskilliers only that we make tons of Plat out there is [FAAR-NERFED!].</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>25-45 gold? Man what server are you on.  At 30 I got a complete set of pristine Feyiron plate armor, all orange con pristine jewlery, a shiny new rare shield for about 10gp.  Its called barter, most crafters etc....will actually give you a [FAAR-NERFED!] good deal opn barter.  What did it costs me all in all, 2 stacks of feyiron clusters, 1 stack of velium clusters and 1 stack of opaline.  time spent gathering, maybe an hour.  Just food for thougt.</FONT></DIV>

[Bar]

<DIV>Now why on earth would someone one star Blackdog?  That's the best advice I've read in weeks...if you spend the time to actually talk to the crafter you'd be amazed what you can accomplish.  If I'm crafting and not working on an order I have absolutely no problem putting together weapons for people if they bring me the pieces.  The last 2 adept 3's I've had made cost me 5g for the ink and the jeweler combined them for nothing all because I make sure when they need something I'm there to help them (btw this is tier 5 stuff so these are pretty spendy).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All I can say is you can get some pretty amazing things done if you actually put forth a little time and effort.  Instead of just looking at the broker and going [FAAR-NERFED!] this stuff is sure spendy.  I mean we all know the broker doesnt represent the real market price.  Everyone, and I mean everyone puts a higher price on the broker then they'll actually take for the item.  Have you tried actually asking for a discount?  or a trade?  I mean come on show a little ingenuity.</DIV>

[Kroder]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dashofpepper wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  All the provisioners raking in cash doing tradeskill writs are going to have to supply the public to make money.  Sooo...enter competition.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Retribution - Befallen</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I wish I could make nough food and drink to sell to players.  But the casual provisioners were suckered into the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>See, the casual player only goes 2 hours, occasionally 3 hours a night.  Kinda depressing when you consider that the desireable drink recipies take that long to produce a single stack.  Oh, and forget self harvesting for the raw items, unless you want to lose at least another whole night.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before the Jan 6th patch, we COULD make the goods at a reasonable pace.  Forget that now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony effectively fired all the provisioners who were being run by casual players with that patch.  None of us can make enough goods for selling, since we need to supply ourselves and our friends first.  And that takes way too long anyhow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those writs, the ones you so blithely dismiss as being the problem that existed?  They could have changed them to only paying once a day, the rest would be cost, or something.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And they give us cheesey, poorly thought out excuses, for why they won't give provisioners mass production.  They refuse to believe the problem exists, plain and simple.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bah.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[sglant]

<DIV>While I do not mind the attuned thing, this is a way for SOE to control the economy.</DIV> <DIV>Right now, you see an item for 1pp. It resells to a vendor for 6g. Whats the actual price? Well, based on supply and demand, the price may be 1pp. But after a while, people are not going to want to pay that price anymore, since they dont get nearly that much back in return. Eventually, the price will drop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There was an interview with one of the developers regarding the attuned aspect.</DIV> <DIV>He stated it was done to keep items from flooding the market. When you are done with an item, typically you sell it or hand it down. Eventually, the server will be flooded with 1000s of that same item. This attuning keeps item numbers in circulation low, and keeps their prices steady (stable once they start to meet the sellback value).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I got the Neeklub's robe from RE, it was one of very few on the server. Now, they are a dime a dozen. This attuning pulls probably at least 1/2 out of circulation, and makes them valuable again. </DIV> <DIV>Robe of the Invoker. Just before patch, there were tons of them for sale ...3-10p each... now, there are still a few of them, same price, however they are not selling. Chances are, its due to the fact that you cant resell it now for what you bought it for. Eventually, the price will stabilize a bit more (RotI may be a bad example though). People are really going to think twice about what they buy now. And when that person drops 50g for a piece of armor, he knows 100% that he wants it. </DIV> <DIV>Overall, I like the feature, it just needs to be tweaked a bit, and prices need to stabilize. </DIV>

[Farad]

<DIV>Miral---</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Horse owners CAN NOT SELL BACK for <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG><U><EM>FULL PRICE</EM></U></STRONG></FONT>!!! </DIV>