Reducing Store-Bought food's regen rate by 66% = BAD MOVE. [Archive]

MaxxStee

02-17-2005, 10:58 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aeiouy wrote:<BR>You can not afford level 30 drink?<BR><BR>Before this patch I could find drinks between 3-6 silver pieces each. I know at level 29 you can make enough money to justify that kind of investment.<BR><BR>Perhaps you are on an unfortunate server, but since the regen rates went up on crafted food, then it is even better. Heck at 29, with the changes, you could get buy on level 20 food and drink.<BR><BR>I could buy a stack of level 30 drink for 1 gold. That would last me between 10-20 hours minimum, of play time.<BR><BR>You can earn many fold more than that in that period of time. Even if they prices go up with the patch changes, it is still affordable.<BR><BR>Again, this is based on my server, and I have consistently seen these prices for weeks and months.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I'm glad YOU can afford to pay 1 gold for your drink. I have one gold. Period. That is all I have managed to accrue in 20 levels. By the way, most of my spells are at App 1. I'm so glad you're of the opinion that I can make enough to cover my food/drink costs in no time. Reality is a much harsher mistress however. I can't afford to keep myself in spells/gear/food as an adventurer. And being a tradeskiller beyond trying to take care of my own needs has NO appeal to me.

Tradeskill_Addict

02-17-2005, 11:10 PM

<DIV>Lot of BS here - everyone can make tier 1 food with saturation high (which has 25% more regen rate than before). Is that stuff really not sucfficient for lvl 30+?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All those food whiners remind me of the EQ1 freaks who thought playing the game without semi-permanent SoW, TEMP and KEI was beyond them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you need 60 secs between 2 fights to regenerate - go and do something productive in the meanwhile and clear a node......you'll get used to it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Prax

02-18-2005, 09:37 AM

Nice, so adventurers now get to spend lots more cash buying expensive food and drink from crafters,<BR>and they receive much less cash because they can no longer sell their old gear. <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>BTW, a big FU to the lame crafter who one starred this post - why don't you go play a tale in the desert ?</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Praxus on <span class=date_text>02-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:57 AM</span>

Exibar

02-18-2005, 09:48 AM

<DIV>Ok, so you can't afford player made food.... make your own! EVERYONE can make teir 1 food/drink.... so it's only level 10, big deal, it's still much much better than vendor drink/food, even before the patch. YES even for a level 30....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Find food/drink that you can buy cheap components from the merchant in the crafting instance and craft for a few minutes making food/drink..... 15 minutes of crafting will last you for a couple days worth of adventuring.... 30 minutes could last you quite a long time of play time......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Exibarious WolfHeart</DIV>

Lorren

02-18-2005, 11:20 AM

Wurm

02-18-2005, 11:34 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Exibar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, so you can't afford player made food.... make your own! EVERYONE can make teir 1 food/drink.... so it's only level 10, big deal, it's still much much better than vendor drink/food, even before the patch. YES even for a level 30....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Find food/drink that you can buy cheap components from the merchant in the crafting instance and craft for a few minutes making food/drink..... 15 minutes of crafting will last you for a couple days worth of adventuring.... 30 minutes could last you quite a long time of play time......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Exibarious WolfHeart</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>And what about the people who DONT WANT TO CRAFT? I didn't buy this game to have my toon stand in a room staring at a screen playing simon sez. </P> <P>And while I personally don't understand how people don't manage to make money in this game I know it happens (even more so now that we have to attune our gear and can no longer broker it for a profit) I know for a fact my best friend reached lvl 20 without having ever seen a gold piece so he is going to be one of those people hard hit by this patch. I have just over 20 gold in the bank at lvl 23 that I was saving to upgrade my gear with now I'm quite sure it will all go to food and I am not happy about it at all.</P>

Tradeskill_Addict

02-18-2005, 02:53 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Exibar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, so you can't afford player made food.... make your own! EVERYONE can make teir 1 food/drink.... so it's only level 10, big deal, it's still much much better than vendor drink/food, even before the patch. YES even for a level 30....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Find food/drink that you can buy cheap components from the merchant in the crafting instance and craft for a few minutes making food/drink..... 15 minutes of crafting will last you for a couple days worth of adventuring.... 30 minutes could last you quite a long time of play time......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Exibarious WolfHeart</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>And what about the people who DONT WANT TO CRAFT? I didn't buy this game to have my toon stand in a room staring at a screen playing simon sez. </P> <P>And while I personally don't understand how people don't manage to make money in this game I know it happens (even more so now that we have to attune our gear and can no longer broker it for a profit) I know for a fact my best friend reached lvl 20 without having ever seen a gold piece so he is going to be one of those people hard hit by this patch. I have just over 20 gold in the bank at lvl 23 that I was saving to upgrade my gear with now I'm quite sure it will all go to food and I am not happy about it at all.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Let me put it this way: people who want everything served on a golden plate, want their char to be the center of everything, think rpg=mobbashing, etc....</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>....GO BUY AN OFFLINE GAME AND GET THE CHEATS!</FONT></STRONG></P> <P>Online games are a CHALLENGE thats why we prefer it (I thought). if you cant life up to the challenge then quit!<BR></P>

Wurm

02-18-2005, 03:40 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Exibar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, so you can't afford player made food.... make your own! EVERYONE can make teir 1 food/drink.... so it's only level 10, big deal, it's still much much better than vendor drink/food, even before the patch. YES even for a level 30....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Find food/drink that you can buy cheap components from the merchant in the crafting instance and craft for a few minutes making food/drink..... 15 minutes of crafting will last you for a couple days worth of adventuring.... 30 minutes could last you quite a long time of play time......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Exibarious WolfHeart</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>And what about the people who DONT WANT TO CRAFT? I didn't buy this game to have my toon stand in a room staring at a screen playing simon sez.</P> <P>And while I personally don't understand how people don't manage to make money in this game I know it happens (even more so now that we have to attune our gear and can no longer broker it for a profit) I know for a fact my best friend reached lvl 20 without having ever seen a gold piece so he is going to be one of those people hard hit by this patch. I have just over 20 gold in the bank at lvl 23 that I was saving to upgrade my gear with now I'm quite sure it will all go to food and I am not happy about it at all.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Let me put it this way: people who want everything served on a golden plate, want their char to be the center of everything, think rpg=mobbashing, etc....</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>....GO BUY AN OFFLINE GAME AND GET THE CHEATS!</FONT></STRONG></P> <P>Online games are a CHALLENGE thats why we prefer it (I thought). if you cant life up to the challenge then quit!<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Du weißt was Du mir kannst oder? :smileywink:</P> <P>It is a challenge, however not all of us even LIKE tradeskills, you obviously do. I don't and do not plan on changing my mind anytime in the near future. So I'll keep buying NPC food for when I solo and only use the overpriced player made food when grouped for a challenging quest.</P> <P> </P> <P align=center></P> <P>Abenteuer im Kopf bedingen ihn.</P> <P><FONT size=1>© Dr. phil. Manfred Hinrich (*1926), deutscher Philosoph, Lehrer, Journalist, Kinderliederautor, Aphoristiker und Schriftsteller</FONT></P>

Tradeskill_Addict

02-18-2005, 03:49 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Du weißt was Du mir kannst oder? :smileywink:</P> <P>It is a challenge, however not all of us even LIKE tradeskills, you obviously do. I don't and do not plan on changing my mind anytime in the near future. So I'll keep buying NPC food for when I solo and only use the overpriced player made food when grouped for a challenging quest.</P> <P>Abenteuer im Kopf bedingen ihn.</P> <P><FONT size=1>© Dr. phil. Manfred Hinrich (*1926), deutscher Philosoph, Lehrer, Journalist, Kinderliederautor, Aphoristiker und Schriftsteller</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1. heisst es "du weißt was du MICH kannst, oder?"</P> <P>2. I like crafting - but the only crafted stuff I have on my 18 lvl char are boots and gloves atm (and a shield I bought from another crafter). the rest is blue-yellow quested stuff and I have quested/dropped gloves&boots in the bank that are nearly as good as my crafted.</P> <P>So being able to craft armor has neither effect on my gameplay nor on my economic situatuion - and not being able/willing to shouldnt have effect on yours either.</P>

Wurm

02-18-2005, 04:11 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Du weißt was Du mir kannst oder? :smileywink:</P> <P>It is a challenge, however not all of us even LIKE tradeskills, you obviously do. I don't and do not plan on changing my mind anytime in the near future. So I'll keep buying NPC food for when I solo and only use the overpriced player made food when grouped for a challenging quest.</P> <P>Abenteuer im Kopf bedingen ihn.</P> <P><FONT size=1>© Dr. phil. Manfred Hinrich (*1926), deutscher Philosoph, Lehrer, Journalist, Kinderliederautor, Aphoristiker und Schriftsteller</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1. heisst es "du weißt was du MICH kannst, oder?"</P> <P>2. I like crafting - but the only crafted stuff I have on my 18 lvl char are boots and gloves atm (and a shield I bought from another crafter). the rest is blue-yellow quested stuff and I have quested/dropped gloves&boots in the bank that are nearly as good as my crafted.</P> <P>So being able to craft armor has neither effect on my gameplay nor on my economic situatuion - and not being able/willing to shouldnt have effect on yours either.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>1) oops ich bin aus Franken, wir reden anders als die "normalen" </FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>2) Great for you... so why are you telling me to leave the game if I don't want to spend all my hard earned money making some greedy provisioner rich?</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Only way to fix this [Removed for Content] is to put price caps on player made food. I don't forsee it happening do you?</FONT></DIV>

Tradeskill_Addict

02-18-2005, 05:24 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>1) oops ich bin aus Franken, wir reden anders als die "normalen" </FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>2) Great for you... so why are you telling me to leave the game if I don't want to spend all my hard earned money making some greedy provisioner rich?</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Only way to fix this [Removed for Content] is to put price caps on player made food. I don't forsee it happening do you?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) bin ösi also rechne ich mich selbst sicher nicht zu den *normalen* :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>2) I am telling you to take the challenge and quest your stuff - even regarding food I still have quested lvl 20 high saturation in the bank.</P> <P>And regarding food I still rely on tier 1 which I craft myself and I could get along with vendor bought too. sometimes I even forget to start eat/drink after logging on and still have no difficulites in soloing yellow mobs without much downtime (which isnt much of a problem since I use my regen time to clear a node or 2 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)<BR></P>

Wurm

02-18-2005, 05:47 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>1) oops ich bin aus Franken, wir reden anders als die "normalen" </FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>2) Great for you... so why are you telling me to leave the game if I don't want to spend all my hard earned money making some greedy provisioner rich?</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Only way to fix this [Removed for Content] is to put price caps on player made food. I don't forsee it happening do you?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) bin ösi also rechne ich mich selbst sicher nicht zu den *normalen* :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>2) I am telling you to take the challenge and quest your stuff - even regarding food I still have quested lvl 20 high saturation in the bank.</P> <P>And regarding food I still rely on tier 1 which I craft myself and I could get along with vendor bought too. sometimes I even forget to start eat/drink after logging on and still have no difficulites in soloing yellow mobs without much downtime (which isnt much of a problem since I use my regen time to clear a node or 2 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I quested every single bit of food available in the game upto my lvl, I even locked my combat XP so I wouldn't lvl past the redoable free iron ration quest in the Sprawl until I had 3 stacks of food to use. And thats not the point. SoE should have never lowered the power of NPC food to begin with. I am tired of nerf this nerf that... instead they should have just made player food alot better, made it easy and cheap for the players who want to to make it and put a price cap on what they can charge.</P> <P>Now we have the perfect example of GREED before NEED and its not going to be pretty for the people with low in game income, otherwise known as the pure adventurer class.</P>

Tradeskill_Addict

02-18-2005, 06:10 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>.. instead they should have just made player food alot better, made it easy and cheap for the players who want to to make it and put a price cap on what they can charge.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>you mean they should have eliminated food and drink at all? because thats how it reads :smileyvery-happy:</P> <DIV></FONT></DIV>

Lig

02-18-2005, 06:13 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lorren wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Exibar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, so you can't afford player made food.... make your own! EVERYONE can make teir 1 food/drink.... so it's only level 10, big deal, it's still much much better than vendor drink/food, even before the patch. YES even for a level 30....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Find food/drink that you can buy cheap components from the merchant in the crafting instance and craft for a few minutes making food/drink..... 15 minutes of crafting will last you for a couple days worth of adventuring.... 30 minutes could last you quite a long time of play time......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Exibarious WolfHeart</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that food/drink that cons blue or lower to you has no regen effect at all , so what would be the point of a level 29 player using level 10 food/drink ?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I am correcting you. THis is completely false. Each Tier has a max that the food and drink regens.... at T3 this is 36 points per tick (it is 25% more now)... if you are lvl 50 you still get that 36 points per tick even though the food is grey... it's just that since your power pool is so large that is not very much in the big picture of things... but you still get the bonus.</P> <P>You as a player also have a max you are allowed to regen per tick and that depends on your lvl... so at lvl 30 your max is 36 per tick... even if you ate lvl 50 food (which you can do just fine) you would still only get 36 regen per tick (even though lvl 50 food regens something like 78 per tick or whatever (the 78 is just a made up number).</P> <P>That's how it works</P>

Wurm

02-18-2005, 06:55 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>.. instead they should have just made player food alot better, made it easy and cheap for the players who want to to make it and put a price cap on what they can charge.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>you mean they should have eliminated food and drink at all? because thats how it reads :smileyvery-happy:</P> <DIV></FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>How? </FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>1) Player made food should be better than NPC food. However NPC food should not of had its stats reduced instead player made food should be giving stat bonuses along with just having a faster health/power refresh rate. That way the poor adventurers can group with the wealthier adventurers without causing too much down-time.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>2) ATM it costs a player too much time and money to make alot of GOOD food to sell</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>3) The players who do take the time and effort sell the food they have made at a 200 to 500% mark up hence needing a price cap. Let them make 50 to 75% profit from sales but no more than that</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>4) Reduce the award for selling the product back to the NPC vendor that they only receive a 20% profit so that if they want to make more money they put the food up for sale.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>5) Get rid of the online selling so they can make enough food while at the same time selling it so they can make even more of a profit.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>--- Everyone benefits and no one becomes an Über toon because of overcharging.</FONT></DIV>

Splat

02-18-2005, 07:01 PM

<blockquote><hr>aeiouy wrote:You can not afford level 30 drink?Before this patch I could find drinks between 3-6 silver pieces each. I know at level 29 you can make enough money to justify that kind of investment.Perhaps you are on an unfortunate server, but since the regen rates went up on crafted food, then it is even better. Heck at 29, with the changes, you could get buy on level 20 food and drink.I could buy a stack of level 30 drink for 1 gold. That would last me between 10-20 hours minimum, of play time.You can earn many fold more than that in that period of time. Even if they prices go up with the patch changes, it is still affordable.Again, this is based on my server, and I have consistently seen these prices for weeks and months.<hr></blockquote>Heh, on my server that's what level 20 food/drink routinely sells for. Meaning only twinks have good food/drink.

Tradeskill_Addict

02-18-2005, 07:09 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>GIMME!</FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV></FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You mean you just want to.....</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>1. kill stuff</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>2. raise lvl</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>3. get loot</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>4. buy better equipment</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>repeat from step 1</FONT></P> <P>......and never run short of money for 4. </P> <P>Apart from the fact i dont see any challenge here but just some kind of virtual<FONT color=#66ffff> </FONT><A href="mailto:m@sturbation" target=_blank><FONT color=#66ffff>m@sturbation</FONT></A> isnt that just to primitive&boring to pay 14 bucks each month for THAT?</P> <P>Why not just buy a new <FONT color=#ff0033>first-person shooter game+cheat </FONT>every 2 months? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

Boza

02-18-2005, 07:15 PM

"Online games are a CHALLENGE thats why we prefer it (I thought). if you cant life up to the challenge then quit!"Being forced to sit in front of a stove for an hour every night before you can start fighting is not a "challenge." That's a timesink. There's a huge difference between the two--there's nothing "challenging" about crafting; once you've mastered the button-mashing reaction formula, there's zero challenge--you're relying completely on RNG for your results, and it's just a timesink. The vast majority of people who play this game do so to slay dragons and discover new lands, not make Fizzlepop and Creamed Coffee. I understand the logic behind the patch, but 66% does seem to be an inordinately large nerf. Drink prices have not dropped on my server at all, and despite what some above posters claimed, on Kithicor Tier 3 drink will run you about 20s for a one hour serving. Tier 4 is typically 30s or more. That's a significant chunk of money, PARTICULARLY if you can't resell your equipment when you upgrade for more than 10% of the original purchase price.

Wurm

02-18-2005, 07:20 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>GIMME!</FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV></FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You mean you just want to.....</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>1. kill stuff</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>2. raise lvl</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>3. get loot</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>4. buy better equipment</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>repeat from step 1</FONT></P> <P>......and never run short of money for 4. </P> <P>Apart from the fact i dont see any challenge here but just some kind of virtual<FONT color=#66ffff> </FONT><A href="mailto:m@sturbation" target=_blank><FONT color=#66ffff>m@sturbation</FONT></A> isnt that just to primitive&boring to pay 14 bucks each month for THAT?</P> <P>Why not just buy a new <FONT color=#ff0033>first-person shooter game+cheat </FONT>every 2 months? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Your a serious tool but whatever floats your boat. I'm lvl 23 and have over 200 quests done... hmmmm yeah I want everything handed to me. :rolleyes:

Tradeskill_Addict

02-18-2005, 07:22 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bozack wrote:<BR><BR>Being forced to sit in front of a stove for an hour every night before you can start fighting is not a "challenge." <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>you dont have to - buy vendor food for 1 silver a stack and go adventuring, I promise you wont die <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>...besides the one hour you loose at the stove compared to the downtime of 1 minute between mobs (for feeding on average) is not a very good deal....</P>

Tradeskill_Addict

02-18-2005, 07:24 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR><BR> Your a serious tool but whatever floats your boat. I'm lvl 23 and have over 200 quests done... hmmmm yeah I want everything handed to me. :rolleyes:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>so if you are used to quest your stuff how does the attune thing hurt you? you dont seem to have been an armor buyer before the patch it seems to me after your last post.<BR>

Dayely

02-18-2005, 07:25 PM

heheI've stated this numerous times already but I'll state it once more. Everyone who is yelling 'price gouger' let me ask you all a question.What value do you put on YOUR time ingame? It takes a LONG time to gather the resources to make food / drink. Especially Tier 5. ( consider there are 10 possibilities from a Tier 5 food node ) It takes even MORE time to combine it all into something useful. It can EASILY eat up an 8-10 hour day just harvesting / refining / creating the final product in an effort to sell to the player base. Easily. . . . Think of the adv XP I could gain in that 8-10 hour period. Allow me to enlighten the non-provisioners of Norrath. . . . When the provisioner can do this efficiently enough and produce enough to meet demand, THEN prices can drop because the provisioner can make it up in bulk. As it stands today, I don't have the time to make food / drink in enough quantity to even make a dent in the demand for it. So I quit bothering to try. I make drink now only for myself, those I group with, and my fellow guild members ( when I can ). Until SoE decides to allow provisioners the ability to make this stuff faster, you are not going to see a price drop. Period. What you're paying for is the provisioners TIME to make this for you. That's it. That's all.This can be done by:1) Allowing multiple output combines. Instead of effecting duration, change so quality of product effect number of product output at any given combine. Base level combine? ( bland ) One output. Refreshing / delectable? Four output. Simple. Want to make it tougher to make a top quality product? Fine, do so. Provisioners will still do what they can to reach top quality because it would be the most efficient use of the fuel. 2) Split the food nodes up a bit so it doesn't require 10 hours of harvesting to get enough drink components together for a single stack of drink. If you think, for one second, that provisioners are going to stand in front of an oven for hours on end to provide YOU with stupidly cheap food and drink, you had best start your own provisioner up because you're going to be one hungry / thirsty individual. -Dayelyte

Knok

02-18-2005, 07:27 PM

<DIV>whats funny is that the people who dont want to tradeskill, who profess to not LIKE tradeskilling, probably never have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They dont want to sit at a stove and make their own food, yet they dont want to pay someone else to do it for them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its nice to see that they think their time to do what THEY want to do is valuable, but others time isnt.</DIV>

Boza

02-18-2005, 07:31 PM

"If you think, for one second, that provisioners are going to stand in front of an oven for hours on end to provide YOU with stupidly cheap food and drink, you had best start your own provisioner up because you're going to be one hungry / thirsty individual."Nor should you have to. I, and hundreds of others, agree with your points about multiple combines. There were a ton of posts about that very issue pre-patch, but they fell on deaf ears. There's something seriously wrong with this game when people who are admitted "tradeskill addicts" are dictating the pace and economy of a game that is primarily based on adventuring and exploration. The title of this game is not "Evercraft," and making such a huge part of the game's mechanics dependent upon such a mind-numbingly boring activity (provisioning) is a suicidal move by the devs, IMO. Certainly, in theory, it's easy to say "lolz just don't use teh food, newbz0r! It will only take u longer betw33n fights lololz!!!11!'" That's easy to say, but for a casual player, it's the kiss of death. Ever been in a group that's had to wait for your power to regen between fights because you can't afford to buy good drink? You don't stay in the group very long. Shifting the focus of this game even further in favor of people who have countless hours to spend doing banal tasks that require no particular skill or talent was a bad, bad idea. I'll say it again: no one wants to roleplay a chef.

Fyronious

02-18-2005, 07:32 PM

<DIV>You know, everyone seems so eager to bash crafters(of which I am an extremely casual one being 10+ lvls below my adventuring lvl), but lets look at some of the realities I have noticed, at least on my server. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adventurers who harvest are making a killing as well by charging way too much for harvested components. I mean, c'mon 1 silver for a newbie zone harvest? PLease. (and yes, I know this is an extreme, but real, example). Is a crafter not supposed to turn a profit? Adventurers hunt and quest to advance and turn a profit(and if you think I am full of it, just look up the many threads complaining about cash rewards from quests), why can't those who choose to play as a crafter do the same? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as for those who use the "I don't want to be forced to become a crafter" line. Don't want to /flame yas here but, why should crafters be forced to be an adventurer? For if they cannot turn a profit on their goods, they cannot turn around and pay the adventurers who sell them harvested components.</DIV>

Wurm

02-18-2005, 07:33 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wurm wrote:<BR><BR> Your a serious tool but whatever floats your boat. I'm lvl 23 and have over 200 quests done... hmmmm yeah I want everything handed to me. :rolleyes:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>so if you are used to quest your stuff how does the attune thing hurt you? you dont seem to have been an armor buyer before the patch it seems to me after your last post.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Are you on drugs? Where the hell did I say anything about the attuning of equipment? We are talking about <FONT size=7>FOOD </FONT><FONT size=2>And I upgraded my armor and weapons EVERYTIME I LVLED!!! I [FAAR-NERFED!] sure wont be doing that anymore. But this is about food not equipment. </FONT></P> <P>I said I have nothing with crafters making a profit, I however refuse to put their twinks through college so to speak. </P> <P><BR></P>

Wurm

02-18-2005, 07:39 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dayelyte wrote:<BR>hehe<BR><BR>I've stated this numerous times already but I'll state it once more. <BR>Everyone who is yelling 'price gouger' let me ask you all a question.<BR><BR><BR>What value do you put on YOUR time ingame? <BR><BR><BR>It takes a LONG time to gather the resources to make food / drink. Especially Tier 5. ( consider there are 10 possibilities from a Tier 5 food node ) It takes even MORE time to combine it all into something useful. <BR><BR>It can EASILY eat up an 8-10 hour day just harvesting / refining / creating the final product in an effort to sell to the player base. Easily. . . . <BR><BR><BR>Think of the adv XP I could gain in that 8-10 hour period. <BR><BR><BR>Allow me to enlighten the non-provisioners of Norrath. . . . <BR><BR>When the provisioner can do this efficiently enough and produce enough to meet demand, THEN prices can drop because the provisioner can make it up in bulk. As it stands today, I don't have the time to make food / drink in enough quantity to even make a dent in the demand for it. So I quit bothering to try. I make drink now only for myself, those I group with, and my fellow guild members ( when I can ). <BR><BR><BR>Until SoE decides to allow provisioners the ability to make this stuff faster, you are not going to see a price drop. Period. What you're paying for is the provisioners TIME to make this for you. That's it. That's all.<BR><BR>This can be done by:<BR><BR>1) Allowing multiple output combines. Instead of effecting duration, change so quality of product effect number of product output at any given combine. Base level combine? ( bland ) One output. Refreshing / delectable? Four output. Simple. Want to make it tougher to make a top quality product? Fine, do so. Provisioners will still do what they can to reach top quality because it would be the most efficient use of the fuel. <BR><BR>2) Split the food nodes up a bit so it doesn't require 10 hours of harvesting to get enough drink components together for a single stack of drink. <BR><BR>If you think, for one second, that provisioners are going to stand in front of an oven for hours on end to provide YOU with stupidly cheap food and drink, you had best start your own provisioner up because you're going to be one hungry / thirsty individual. <BR><BR>-Dayelyte<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I am all for you being fairly rewarded for your time spent... but most of your fellows don't want to be fairly rewarded... THEY WANT TO BE RICH!! </P> <P>I have said make it cheaper/faster for the crafters to make the food. Or leave the cost/time the same and make the food give stat buffs. You give me food that increases my toons stats and I'll be willing to pay you alot more. As it is now most of you overcharge a great amount for your time/cost and thats what needs to be fixed.</FONT></P>

Boza

02-18-2005, 07:40 PM

"Don't want to /flame yas here but, why should crafters be forced to be an adventurer? For if they cannot turn a profit on their goods, they cannot turn around and pay the adventurers who sell them harvested components."Seriously flawed logic. Adventurers are forced to make money so that they can upgrade their equipment. The rarity of loot drops insures this system, and there's no way someone could subsist fully equipped if they relied totally on loot that dropped and was awarded directly to them. Adventurers MUST upgrade their gear in order to remain viable against NPCs. Crafters, on the other hand, require no equipment upgrades. If you had to upgrade your Wooden Spoon or Metalshaping Hammer every time you hit a new tier, you might have an argument, but the fact of the matter is that you can craft perfectly fine in the gear that you're wearing when you get off the newbie boat. And, again, I'll reiterate: this game should NOT be craftercentric. I'm glad that some of you prefer the non-challenge timesink of crafting, but the VAST MAJORITY of the playerbase does not. Crafters should *not* be dictating gameplay.

Fenri

02-18-2005, 08:03 PM

Anyone remember KEI? Now that was a ripp-off. Besides that my main can go adventure for a few hours kil a bunch of mobs, gather nodes, and finish some quests. When I get back to town the items I picked up off of corpses sells for between 50 silver and a gold total. Using that number you could buy player made food (which I dont know why you wouldn't given its regen) that would last a few days and making you more money in the mean time. Oh and plus its a traveling clarity you die? Have a sandwich and a fizzlepop and get back to work killing mobs and making a provisioner feel good about monotony.

Fyronious

02-18-2005, 08:11 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bozack wrote:<BR> And, again, I'll reiterate: this game should NOT be craftercentric. I'm glad that some of you prefer the non-challenge timesink of crafting, but the VAST MAJORITY of the playerbase does not. Crafters should *not* be dictating gameplay.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>To be honest, I truly agree with you. And I guess I didn't come across the way I wanted to in my post. As an adventurer mainly myself, I do understand the hassles associated with trying to keep up food/equipment-wise. But, as a casual crafter, and in my own opinion, I can see why some of these prices are so high. I was trying to perhaps bring another veiw across, one that people who do not craft might not see. Of course I realize now how feeble my attempt was(probably due to the 3 hours of sleep I am currently going on).</P>

Boza

02-18-2005, 08:28 PM

Don't get me wrong; I craft a bit too (level 22, a level 16, and a level 12). I think the system is a good idea, but the fact of the matter is that the percentage of people who are PRIMARILY crafters is very small in comparison to those who are primarily adventurers, yet these people have dictated huge alterations in game meechanics for two patches in a row now--changes which have been hugely detrimental to non-crafters or casual crafters.I'm not in favor of making the system a dumbed-down one where crafters are useless and it's not a viable way to play the game, but allowing 5% of the playerbase to dictate sweeping changes that affect the other 95% is just no good. There has to be a happy medium--I think part of the problem is that most crafters don't really understand how lean it can be as an adventurer. Sure, some loot sells for good money, but it doesn't exactly fall into your lap. Even cash loot--it's not uncommon to get only one piece of tier 4 cash loot in 3 or 4 hours in a full group. That's what, 40 sp in sell back? That might *just* cover your drink costs for that time, leaving you no overall profit to put toward your next round of upgrades. Now, understandably, that's probably a conservative estimate, but at the same time that 40sp that seems like a lot of money for a drop at level 31 is pretty meager at level 38 or 39. To a full-time crafter, having to spend 15-20 gold every time you advance to the next equipment tier (not even counting adepts/app IVs) may not seem like much, but to the casual player that's a HUGE chunk of money.I could write an entire dissertation about the economic disparities and overall problems in the game as it stands right now, but I won't. Suffice it to say that there's a vast economic gulf right now between the people who play to have fun and explore and the people who are content to press the same three buttons in sequence for 4 hours at a time.

Shel

02-19-2005, 07:42 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 3) The players who do take the time and effort sell the food they have made at a 200 to 500% mark up hence needing a price cap. Let them make 50 to 75% profit from sales but no more than that<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Then there will be NO food or drink for sale anywhere.<BR> <DIV> </DIV>

Calastra

02-20-2005, 03:27 AM

I just want to drop in to say a few things.It only takes maybe two or three hours to get an artisan high enough to make tier 2 drink. Tier 2 refined raws are available from the wholesalers in level 10+ societies. If you don't want to spend that much time in front of a stove, you can spend 10 to 15 minutes at a time every few days to get enough for an adventuring session at a cost of less than a silver piece per drink or food.I am a level 50 provisioner. I have stacks and stacks of the best drink in the game, but when I adventure I use tier 2 drink because it is cheap to make, does the job right for me, and I can give it out to group members who need it without wanting them to pay me back. I'm level 23 right now. I will move up to tier 3 drink in about two levels or so.Also, I don't know what servers everyone is playing on but there are 4 or 5 tier 5 provisioners on Steamfont and we do not run out of tier 4 and 5 stocks. There are also maybe 100 new provisioners cooking constantly since the last patch. If you're willing to change servers, drop by steamfont our prices seem to be lower than some other servers (tier 2 drink for 4 sp, tier 3 for 8, tier 4 20, tier 5 35 sp).There is no demand problem on steamfont ATM, because there are enough dedicated provisioners to supply the server.I do want to say one other thing. This game is not primarily about adventuring followed by crafting - the game is equally about both. Please understand that as they balance the game further they need adventurers AND artisans to feel useful and needed.<p>Message Edited by Calastrana on <span class=date_text>02-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:29 PM</span>

Evre

02-20-2005, 04:22 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I *CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT!!!!* AFORD PLAYER-MADE FOOD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Period. I simply cannot afford to purchase player made food simply because the demand to make them is so high, and the prices to make them are even higher than the demand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My power regenerates at a very slow level as it is for a level 29 human monk. This just means 66% more downtime for me.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P align=left>They are (finally) looking into giving provision combines multiple yields. When this happens, supply will increase quite a bit, provisioners will be able to spread their desired profit over more products, and there will be more competition as well. As a result, provisions will become much more affordable. They may not ever be as affordable as storebought provisions, but they typically last longer so that should make up for the difference. But in all fairness, if people are buying storebought provisions, then something is terribly wrong. How many people buy storebought armors and weapons?</P> <P align=left>Encouraging adventurers to buy player goods is a <EM>good idea. </EM>Don't confuse a good idea with <EM>bad implementation.</EM> And it was a very bad implementation to force this change on the live servers without first critically evaluating whether or not provisioners could feasibly meet the demand of adventurers. Thus, until they implement multiple yields, I totally agree with complaints about the current change to storebought provisions. Once they adjust provisioner yields however, they should keep this -66% change.</P> <P align=left>[edit: grammar, additional clarification]</P> <P align=left>Message Edited by Evreth on <SPAN class=date_text>02-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:53 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Evreth on <span class=date_text>02-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:55 PM</span>

Jin

02-20-2005, 05:29 AM

"It takes a LONG time to gather the resources to make food / drink."[Removed for Content]right click brokerbuy any raw you want for a few copperset up bot or hit F1 F2 a few timesviola! instant coinage.yeah, that's a time consuming challenge.

Crono1321

02-20-2005, 09:04 PM

<blockquote><hr>Bozack wrote:"Online games are a CHALLENGE thats why we prefer it (I thought). if you cant life up to the challenge then quit!"Being forced to sit in front of a stove for an hour every night before you can start fighting is not a "challenge." That's a timesink. There's a huge difference between the two--there's nothing "challenging" about crafting; once you've mastered the button-mashing reaction formula, there's zero challenge--you're relying completely on RNG for your results, and it's just a timesink. The vast majority of people who play this game do so to slay dragons and discover new lands, not make Fizzlepop and Creamed Coffee. I understand the logic behind the patch, but 66% does seem to be an inordinately large nerf. Drink prices have not dropped on my server at all, and despite what some above posters claimed, on Kithicor Tier 3 drink will run you about 20s for a one hour serving. Tier 4 is typically 30s or more. That's a significant chunk of money, PARTICULARLY if you can't resell your equipment when you upgrade for more than 10% of the original purchase price.<hr></blockquote>]Role-Playing is supposed to simulate real life. I don't know if anyone in this thread is old enough to be living on their own...but my food costs are more than my "fun" costs. $50 a week for food...vs...$7 for a movie ticket..hm. Plus...cooking in real life...approx---1hr! And I promise to make a stack of 1hr drinks it takes about 20 minutes, not 1hr. There you have your 20hours of drink. And food! Food lasts up to 4.5hours!!!!!! Stop yer whinin!

dchawk

02-20-2005, 09:59 PM

<DIV>I agree that the reduction of store-bought is bad. It seems that most part time provisioners can only supply themselves and 4 or 5 others. Most full time adventurers will need a part time provisioner just to keep up. Trying to get more people to create provisioners to lower prices instead of adventuring seems like the wrong way to go. Yes, more will do it, but most of those won't like it or they would have done it anyway. I would rather see multiple returns and just one time frame for food/drink, like Alchemist, than trying to encourage more provisioners. I had already started a provisioner before the last big patch to supply my main with food/drink for adventure and carpentry. Now, it seems my provisioner will be my more useful artisan class, and I don't want it to be that way. I rarely sell more than 1/2 of what I make, mainly to have enough money to buy supplies/books/etc.. I like that SoE is trying to find a better system, and listenening to feedback.</DIV>

DakiRo

02-20-2005, 10:29 PM

Simulate real life ? I guess that explains why we walk around in magical armor and battle goblins, dragons and other real-life creaturs. Don't know about you, but I don't usually meet goblins in real life.EQ2 is nothing like real life, it is a game and its economy can be set any way Sony likes.

Feaw

02-20-2005, 10:54 PM

<DIV>I do play on test and have not checked this out there but then again it didnt exactly stay with us before going to life long enough to do that. On live however the responce at least on my server has been for more people to be making their own food, not to sell but to consume. People who are selling are still offering few things (some really low end) for too much money. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

CrimsonAveng

02-20-2005, 11:05 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jinpo wrote:<BR>"It takes a LONG time to gather the resources to make food / drink."<BR><BR>[Removed for Content]<BR><BR>right click broker<BR>buy any raw you want for a few copper<BR>set up bot or hit F1 F2 a few times<BR>viola! instant coinage.<BR><BR>yeah, that's a time consuming challenge.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I disagree. I'd say that the majority of craters are casual crafters. That is, they adventure and craft, but their crafting level is below their adventuring level. Example: a 31 warlock/26 jeweler. So, that said, here is where and why I disagree:<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>#1 the casual crafter usually isn't in it for the profit directly. They make items/food to SAVE themselves money. Example: I dont craft tier 3 food for my tier 4 adventurer to make 1g per stack of drink but to save myself and my alts 1g per stack of drinks.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>#2 The above mentioned casual crafter isn't gonna save much money by buying raw food for 2s+. For a stack drink that would come to 40s. That cuts into the casual crafter's point for crafting by 40%. So the causual crafter will go to TS or Nek and harvest/solo kill. There are 3 harvs per node. But youll only get 2 of the 3. Then there are 6 possible harvs u can get. That means on average you gotta hit 3 nodes to get 1 of what u want. To get a stack of 20, you need 20 nodes. Even if you have no competition and most of the mobs are grey. itll still take about 2-3 min to find the right node and harv it. So under<U> ideal conditions, you can get your 20 stack in about 1 hour</U>. But we all know conditions are far from ideal. There can be others harvesting in your area. (We all know there are only a few safe zones to harvest in per area). There can be spawns of all the nodes but the ones you need, etc. So I'd say that 1 hour becomes closer to 2 hours. </FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>#3 So now you got your stacks and you are ready to craft. To make a stack of good 1.5 or 2 hour drinks it takes what, about an hour or so? And you say bot? I assume you are talking about something 3rd party? Well the casual crafter, me included, isn't gonna pay 12$ a month on a game I like to risk getting my account cancelled. SO THAT'S OUT.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>#4 So the casual crafter will spend a few hours a week just to SAVE some money. </FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>#5 You must have been talking about the hardcore crafters or the hardcore money makers, not the casual crafter.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>#6 If I did decide to sell my wares (spend a few more hours gathering and crafting), my prices would be high also. How much is your time worth? I figure for every hour I adventure on tier 4, adventure mind you, not killing all the named with a well oiled machine group, I can make maybe 33s on average an hour. So me, the casual crafter, would set my prices accordingly. 3 hours of my time for a stack of 20? 1g which is about right in line with tier 3/4 drinks.</FONT></DIV>

Boza

02-21-2005, 10:41 AM

"Role-Playing is supposed to simulate real life. I don't know if anyone in this thread is old enough to be living on their own...but my food costs are more than my "fun" costs. $50 a week for food...vs...$7 for a movie ticket..hm.Plus...cooking in real life...approx---1hr! And I promise to make a stack of 1hr drinks it takes about 20 minutes, not 1hr. There you have your 20hours of drink. And food! Food lasts up to 4.5hours!!!!!! Stop yer whinin!"Thank you for sending my [FAAR-NERFED!]-o-meter off the scale...I was wondering if it still worked. It was awfully considerate of you to reiterate my earlier claim that SOE is allowing the miniscule percentage of unemployed shut-ins to dictate the pace of this game.

Rock

02-21-2005, 10:58 AM

<DIV> Tier 3 drink on Kithcor usually runs 17 - 25 Silver seems a little steep but i manage. With the steep decline in regen value on vendor bought i'd suggest buying tier 1 food though rather than vendor, it still should be cheaper and better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Rockem on <span class=date_text>02-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:06 PM</span>

Alis

02-21-2005, 05:40 PM

<DIV>Lvl30 drink on Lavastorm was up for 41 silver per item that costs less than one silver to make completely ridiculous and dont give me the time issue because it was two combine drink, not a five combine last for hours drink. The end result is most players will lvl slower and this is an issue for me as thats a big time nerf. Players can charge what they want for there time that isnt an argument if people will pay good for them, the nerf to food I could afford by soe thats my problem.</DIV>

Teg

02-21-2005, 06:31 PM

<DIV> <P>WHAAA WHAAA WHAAA HORSE! WHAAA WHAAA WHAAA<BR><BR>this message brought to you by all the people who would rather complain than play the game...</P> <P> </P> <P>LOL.</P></DIV>

Alis

02-21-2005, 06:44 PM

<DIV>Indeed maybe they have had enough nerfing. </DIV>

Orki who Pos

02-21-2005, 07:06 PM

<DIV>The problem is that people does not look at armor and spells as consumables.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On average a level takes 10 hours playing time in groups (often less, atleast till the late 40s)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A stack of 1h drinks (2.5 gp for lvl 30 stuff often) will last you 2 levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A set of armor will last you roughly 5 levels, a spell usually 8 levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you buy a spell every level in the 30s for 1.5 gold.. and more than one piece of armor/weapons (not counting rares),</DIV> <DIV>is it so unresonable to pay the same amount for food ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=6><FONT color=#ffff00 size=7>NO !</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=6>Therefore the price of 12.5 silver/hour for lvl 30 drink is fair.</FONT></DIV>

Alis

02-21-2005, 07:26 PM

<DIV>I have exactly 7 gold at lvl35 due to keeping my armour spells as up to date as I can, normal pieces are 4 gold each spells frequently 7 gold. So its not that I dont want to buy player made food, that costs them 1 silver to make for 41 silver but I cant affford it! I appreciate you would rather I bought your food and drink at 4000% margins rather than spells and armour but it isnt going to happen. </DIV>

snipes

02-21-2005, 07:46 PM

<DIV>Im just mad that they nerfed holiday food now , I still have like 10 stacks or so of eggnog and fruit cake =( </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Snipes / daedan</DIV>

Orki who Pos

02-21-2005, 07:54 PM

<DIV>Alisan, the player that sold you those spells or that armor made more than the provisioner did...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>try giving them the resources for a t4 spell/armor and ask them how mutch a "donation" they want as profit, you'd be suprised when many ask for 3+ gold for the armor..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you could also look at it this way, often having better drink will increase your benefit to the group more than using a better sword or spell (bigger downtimereduction, or xp/hour)</DIV>

Alis

02-21-2005, 08:09 PM

<DIV>I agree the players I bought from made a lot of money, I can even understand there is to much money in the economy hence these massive changes, I personally dont have it and doubt I ever will. Well I could always switch of exp and farm solo mobs but heh thats not why I play. </DIV>

Bur

02-21-2005, 08:39 PM

A few things.First, the people saying that that we can just "go buy all our components for a few copper" are completely wrong. My provisioner just hit level 20 and not a single recipe had a harvested component that was selling for less then 1 silver. To go harvest and then make decent food/drink it probably takes me a few hours per stack. Adventuring I usually make >=1 gold an hour. To have crafting match up with adventuring i'd have to sell each stack for >=1-2 gold a stack if every component was free.Also if you play smart your food/drink will last alot longer. Unless i'm soloing or the preist is having power problems I don't even eat food. It dosen't make that much of a difference. Some people will call me cheap, but the priest probably never finds out. /stopeating/stopdrinkingThese commands are your friends. If you're just standing around somewhere don't waste consumables.Hopefully SOE will come to their senses and give provisioners multiple yields per combine, untill then we will all just have to live with inflated prices.

Grond

02-22-2005, 12:24 AM

<DIV>There is a reason some toons are really rich, and others are not. I do not care what you say, but lotto is bugged. Taking myself (who complains to never win anything) and a friend (who seems to never lose) over the course of 5 levels together and a very good number of drops I have won about 3-4 % of the items, and he (including it all even the 'bad runs' when someone else was winning a lot) won a good 30-31 % of the items dropped. There are people who almost always win, and others that almost never win. (Thus you have to understand how several people can be poor while others in the same range can brag that they have a ton of gold).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway getting to my point. Level 40 drink that lasts three hours on my server costs 40-50 silver. We will go with the 40 silver cost. That means for a group of 6 the total cost on drink is 2 gold 40 silver.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the course of 3 hours that I have looked at 2 nice items (able to be sold for around 3 gold) dropped, 7 no stat items or rare meats/antenna stuff (40-80 silver), and a good 20-30 cheap meats (3 silver).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So not counting the nice items about 4 gold 80 silver dropped in that time span going with what I saw. Nicely rounded of course so I can say half of your money is spent on food. That seems a little out of line for something supposed to be level appropriate, and that assumes that everyone gets the same ammount of loot. If you have a crappy day that could be all your money spend on drink (not counting food). If the nice items (adepts/armor) isn't divided it is likely sold to a merchant anyway for 1-1.5 gold. So all in all buying food drains too much from the economy while giving provisioners the ability to be the richest class of them all, because people area always (at least on my server) placing orders even at high prices by what most of you are quoting.</DIV>

Orki who Pos

02-22-2005, 01:22 AM

<DIV>Grond, a provisioners money POTENTIAL is the biggest, however their money/time spent is rather underwhelming.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If there was no comptition or you could produce things in stacks, provisioner would be the way to go, but the way it is, you will make more cash/hour as any of the spell or armor creating classes.</DIV>

VonStein

02-22-2005, 02:49 AM

<DIV>Hmmm.... Food nerfed by 66%....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Str nerfed...</DIV> <DIV>Agil nerfed...</DIV> <DIV>Wiz and Warlock spells upgraded, but more Resists now....</DIV> <DIV>Horse Nerf....</DIV> <DIV>SK spells broken or substandard...</DIV> <DIV>Have to attune all equip now... nerfed resale...</DIV> <DIV>Now all tradecrafts can solo... nerfed the interdependance of the economy...</DIV> <DIV>Misleading AC stat.... worthless now.... especially with combined agil nerf...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>all in the last couple of weeks.... tell me.... is there anything actually fixed???</DIV>

Blindrage

02-22-2005, 06:24 AM

<DIV>This probably isn't the correct place, but</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P>"We've made a serious commitment to NVIDIA, and they to us, as the graphics platform of choice for EverQuest II." - John Smedley, President, Sony Online Entertainment<BR><BR>"It allmost runs smoothly on extreeme performance with a 6800GT" - *sigh*</P> <P> </P> <P>I have a X850XT and I will tell you you're not missing a lot on max quality, the only thing that is different from balanced is a few shadows <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I run on the setting right below balanced because I can't stand the foliage, guess I should of saved the 550$ and bought a weaker gfx card...ohwell, quake 3 looks good at 750fps.</P> <P> </P> <P>*Edit*</P> <P>To contribute something to this thread that is meaningful, maybe they should not have nerfed the store bought food by 66% and just increased player made stats a little more?</P> <P> </P> <P>Just my 2 cents.</P></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Blindrage on <SPAN class=date_text>02-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:24 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Blindrage 25 Guardian</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Blindrage on <span class=date_text>02-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:27 PM</span>

Orki who Pos

02-22-2005, 02:32 PM

<DIV>blindrage, it runs like ratonga behind at balanced settings when i'm grouping, on my monster of a pc...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>.. and just as badly on the 5 other pc's i've seen with nvidia cards in em. (4 6800s)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... druid regen is getting looked into :o)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 AM</span>

Tradeskill_Addict

02-22-2005, 03:07 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grondax wrote:<BR> <DIV>There is a reason some toons are really rich, and others are not. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>My guess is the money was made when you could buy your <FONT color=#ffcc00>wholesaler quest </FONT>stuff at the broker. It was before I joined but I have been told some people actually bought every single harvest they could get for 50c or less and made a plat each night :smileysurprised:</DIV>

Suraklin

02-22-2005, 04:53 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Slirp wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have to agree , evenyone is now at the mercy of provisioners. Considering they havn't had a problem price gouging before, why would they stop now?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Try playing a provisioner and see if you think what we charge is price gouging. Do you have any idea how much time it takes to make a stack of food or drink? Know what you're talking about before you type a comment [Removed for Content]. I'd be more than happy if we made multiple food/ drink per combine. I'd be able to put up more items for lower cost.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Suraklin on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:01 AM</span>

prisoner

02-22-2005, 05:34 PM

<DIV>I don't think its fair to paint provisioners as the only crafting class that takes a long time to make items. I just started crafting and as an outfitter it takes a considerable amount of time to make anything except refines. Off topic a little, but true nonetheless. Crafting is time consuming period, doesn't matter what skill it is. However I can agree with both sides of the argument. The npc food/drink nerf hit hard. Its not the provisioners fault that they price things how they do really. I'd guess that a majority of the provisioners that play do not harvest their own raws. The standard is set however. People know that drink on average is costing 10-15s/hour for t3 drink. In order to be able to afford those, they must then sell their raws for a decent amount. It just goes in one big circle. Then there is the time element. Some will gather for hours and hours just to sell. Well, they want to be paid well for their time of gathering. Then the provisioners who get the raws want to be paid well for their time of turning the raws into something. The ones who harvest AND make their own food/drink really have the biggest timesink, and I feel for them. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The best thing to help this would of course as mentioned, yield multiple items on success. Another would require an almost server effort. If the raws were sold at a reasonable price all the time, I can almost promise that food and drink prices would drop as well. I hate having to sell my fayberries and cinnamon for 5-10s, but the standard is already set. If I dont sell for that much, I can't afford to buy the items they ultimately produce. I hate economy =( </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>17</DIV><p>Message Edited by prisoner17 on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:34 AM</span>

Radulank

02-22-2005, 07:27 PM

Sorry i just have to put my 2cp in.I'm a 27sk. all my armor / equip is yellow+ I have 4 weapons in my bags to switch out depending on how i want to do damage. All these weapons are blue or better most yellow/white. I have all the spells in adept1 or app4 that i use or want. And I have about 17-20 gold on me at any given time.and I only buy high satation food from players! (yes i do craft, but i'm lvl 18 outfitter and all i've really made are backpacks that i gave away to my guild at no cost so i'm crafting for a loss) But you know, i can find scrubland leafs, orc bones, and those wonderfull shards. I bought a merchant board and i can make like 5-6 gold while i'm at work from selling collection peices!!as for buying stacks of food at a time, why? I'm going to play for 4 hours. so i buy 2-3 drinks and a crab poper or two. heck most provisioners will make you crab popers for dirt chip if you get them the crab meat (which you can start collecting as early as newbie island, so don't tell me it is too hard to get)As for price gouging from provisioners. want to talk price gouging? I got a master 1 spell drop (for free) sold it for 1plat. That is like what, infinate mark up? How comon is it that we adventures sell things we get for FREE to crafters at 1-20 silvers? And most of this was harvested while preist or wizzy or tank or who ever was afk for a sec, and there's a node near by.I just really don't see what the big deal is. Either buy the food or don't. But it isn't "broken" or outragous. Heck, go kill green con solos and farm some pelts / skins and sell them. you can do that w/o any food and little to no down time. I guess i just don't see the big deal.

Skarr_Vect

02-22-2005, 07:45 PM

<DIV>By the time they actually fix provisioner so that we can provide food to everyone, it will be to late. Botters will be rampent, and it will be even more worthless to provision.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im a 33 provisioner, 24 assassin, and have 10 gold to my name. Half the boxes in my bank are 7 slotters, some are 12's. My bags are all 8 slot, except for the Commonlands one I got. We do not make lots of money. True, I can make 5 gold in one night, but thats only after I have crafted every day for a week straight, and actually have several stacks of food and drink to sell. Not that food actually sells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Almost every one of my spells are App 1. I spend all my money on resources because I can not harvest in TS. Tier 3 resources are selling anywhere from 2 - 30 silver apiece, depending on the resource. Drink resources are the ones that are 30 silver.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if I purchase every resource I need for a stack of T3 drinks (3hr stuff) it still takes about 3 hrs to make that stack. Assuming its a fayberry related drink, I have just spent at the very least, 1.5 - 2 gold on the resources alone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of the provs do not want to screw everyone on DrinksFood... we just want to make money thats WORTH the TIME invested. Don't worry... prices are dropping, botters are up and coming fast. On AB you can get T3 drinks for 4 or 5 silver right now. 1hr duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im gonna keep on grinding Prov, so that when prov is fixed, I can supply my guild with fooddrink.</DIV>

Stra

02-22-2005, 08:23 PM

<DIV>There's a lot of noise in this thread about provisioner markups, and I'm not sure exactly why. I am a 42 Monk and 50 Provisioner. Believe it or not, I don't make my own food/drink. I buy my T5 food/drink from the market, 30s per hour for drink, 10s for food, usual prices on Najena. Then, I head out to Feerrott and kill green things. Loot a single 'augmented leather' item, and have paid for my food and drink for 7 hours. Add in the meat drops from the mobs and random other vendor fodder, and in 45 minutes, I've gotten enough coin. Now, I go group. I've paid for my expenses from the day from soloing, and whatever I get in group is gravy on top.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, if I myself don't make my own food and drink because the time expended is too great, explain to me again where exactly the problem you are having is?</DIV>

Alis

02-22-2005, 08:26 PM

<DIV>Because the price is not the same on all servers. T3 drink is selling for 41 silver per hour, thats two combine drink one off. </DIV>

VonStein

02-23-2005, 02:41 AM

<DIV>Lucan server 20 minutes ago..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Freeport.... cheapest Level 20 player made food was 20 silver....... drink the same....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Went to the broker.... and found the same food for approx 1.5 silver....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At the Freeport prices I can't afford it.... solo'd for 4 hours.... got approx 70 silver in loot (after the dang 3 to 1 FSR to loot drop rate from chests in the Commons...).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Add in a couple of deaths... which wastes food.... and this will ruin my playing enjoyment....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Luckily.... Quenyos seems to be producing food MUCH cheaper for some reason...</DIV>

Skarr_Vect

02-23-2005, 09:31 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VonSteinan wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Luckily.... Quenyos seems to be producing food MUCH cheaper for some reason...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Thats cause they can harvest T3 about 500 times easier then their Freeport counterparts.</DIV>

Darqz

02-24-2005, 05:26 AM

<DIV>One thing that amazes me is that People seem to neglect to notice a few key elements. Alchemists were essentially written out of the game since the interdependancy rule was thrown out of the door. All crafters were kicked in the shins with the fuel costs. These effected the balance of the trade skills sort to speak. The only ones that were not effected were those that created provisioners (with the exception of fuel). Flip the coin sort to speak and look at adventures. While they supported the trade skill community for a while (buying items and selling harvestables and such), the only way to really make money in the game was to go out and adventure. Then after a good days haul come back and sell what you could to vendors, trade skill and turn your toon into a vendor to sell your wares. Crafted items on both live and test servers didn't sell as fast for me as say adept spells and item drops. Now with the attuning and trade skill reworking the tide has shifted. Tradeskillers can produce thier wares alot faster and mob drops will be less frequent due to attuning. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> The problem that alot of adventures are probably complaining about now is the same thing that alchemists are complaining about. Alot of Alchemists looked at it as they were selling thier time for thier ability to create "goods" that people needed. Scholar/Jewler spells were high because of thier costs to cover the inks, oils, and washes that alchemists sold to them. Now that everyone can make thier own the prices are still going to stay the same but there is no need to buy from an alchemist anymore, essentially writing them out of the picture. Adventures now look at their food and realize that the extra one minute of downtime means less xp, less chance at loot and less fun for thier play time. To be forced to do anything instantly creates friction in most humans. We don't like to be told what to do. Many adventures feel like they are being told to buy player made food. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I understand the cost of the food as a crafter myself. The time and effort to sit there and play with the spells as they pop up so I don't burn my baked goods or boil my tea is understandable. However on live I've seen single stacks of tier 2 food go for over 2gp. The sad thing is that people pay this because they feel they have no other choice. Nobody wants to be that person sitting in a group going "hang on I can't heal OOP" or "hang on no more taunts OOP". Crafters also don't realize that as you level the cost to repair your armor becomes exponentially higher. Adventures have to make decisions such as "buy new armor, repair the armor, upgrade skills, and now buy food." While this is nobody's fault in the tradeskill part of the game this does get tedious and expensive. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I know we can all make provisioners and what not. Some of us aren't powergamers though and don't have time. I have a buddy of mine that plays and likes to play his bruiser. He is slowly falling behind his guild because he has to take his girls to Soccer practice and such. Does he expect the guild to wait for him, no. He plods along like a good soldier and does what he can. Now he has to take time out of his adventuring to harvest nodes and go bake. I know I can speak for him when I say that is just not fun for him.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For those of you that have made it this far and say "well he can harvest in his down time." Obviously you've never grouped at higher levels or gone to dungeons. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I would like to see a cap put on all prices (IE you can not sell any piece for more than 200% of what a vendor would give to you for the piece) we know it won't happen. I would like to see some balancing occur though. Since it has become evident that if we, as adventures, can not afford to pay the provisioner's pricing then make there be a level cap onthe adventure side for trade skills. IE if you don not have a level of 20 in your adventures exp you can not craft past tier 2 food. Force the tradeskillers to go out and adventure and keep up thier skills and weapons and items. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I expect people will not like what I have to say. But like I've seen many times Provisioners want to be paid for thier time and effort. This is understandable. If adventures can not afford it, make your own provisioner and craft yourself. Well I am agreeing with this logic and using it to look at it from an adventure's aspect. If you want to to charge more than 2x the cost of your items to create food, do so but don't expect to level too long or expect to pay ALOT more for harvests. If you don't like it level your toon up and support it with the money your making from making food.</DIV>

Errie_Tholluxe

02-24-2005, 02:51 PM

Its been posted in the provisioners section and ignored, but the simple way to fix this would be 'plates' and 'cups'....sell them off vendors, or make em player made, but add 'slice' and 'cup' to the name and the foodstuffs can no longer be used for higher up combines but could be used for multiples....5 items, 5 cups, one combine = 5 items...not that hard a concept. As for the flooding of the market by doing things this way, heck we have lots for sale on Grobb atm, but nothing people can really afford. This would be a simple way to feed the masses and still be profitable to the provisioners without it being overbearing.

Orki who Pos

02-24-2005, 04:44 PM

<DIV>Actually not THAT bad an idea, adding a final combine, splitting a "finished" product into, say 5 pieces that couldnt be used for further combines.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But, we would run outta bag space fast doing that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still think the current costs is quite fair, compared to other gear costs, but apperantly most players doesn't, and therefore uses crappy stuff.</DIV> <DIV>(It's rare to group with people i dont have to supply drink for now a days)</DIV><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:45 PM</span>

susand

02-24-2005, 06:40 PM

<DIV>Here, Here Radulanken!! I wholeheartedly agree. Buy it or don't buy it. The choice is the players. But don't dictate to a crafter what they can charge for what they make. If you don't like the price, by gummies, don't buy it! It is as simple as that. Don't whine to me about your down time. Noone promised you wouldn't have any. Just go on out there and adventure to your little heart's content. </DIV>

Boza

02-24-2005, 08:15 PM

Ahh, this thread brings back fond memories of tabletop RPGs. I distinctly remember getting together with a group of friends, sitting down for an evening of adventuring, and then being told by our DM that before we could kill anything we needed to spend at least an hour making our own food or searching for a vendor that would sell us food at a reasonable price. Oh, wait, no...that never happened. It never happened because it's a BAD IDEA. No self-respecting GM ever said "sorry gang, you didn't spend enough time making food, you don't get to fight the monsters!" There's nothing wrong with requiring food consumption in a RPG environment, but requiring people to purchase grossly overpriced food made by idiots who lack situational awareness (and therefore become full-time crafters, because there's zero challenge and zero dynamism involved) is a stupid, stupid, stupid idea--particularly when the boards are full of self-righteous people who justify their price-gouging by saying "but it takes tiiiime!" Yeah, it takes time--time you're wasting if you're spending it sitting in front of a stove hitting the same 3 buttons every 10 seconds for hours on end. There was absolutely nothing wrong with store-bought food in its prior iteration, for anyone EXCEPT provisioners. Shifting the balance of the game this far in favor of the Krafting Kreeps reflects SOE's continuing policy of pandering to the lowest common denominator. Certainly someone's snide response to this will be "no one's forcing you to buy player-made stuff!" which is, of course, ludicrous. OF COURSE you're forced to buy player-made food now if you want to retain the level of efficiency that you've grown used to in this game, and that reliance is precisely what the provisioner community wanted and whined for. As usual, SOE slapped a poorly-conceived band-aid fix onto something solely in the interest of appeasing the loudest whiners at the expense of the community-at-large. This game is not called Evercraft.

Darqz

02-24-2005, 08:50 PM

<DIV>The more I think about the time bit the more I have to laugh. With this being said if I'm paying for a provisioner's time to make food I will now start taking billing to support me for my time adventuring. I see it as a fair trade. I pay for the food that helped them level, they can pay or sponser me for the time I have to spend leveling to get items to sell to buy thier food. Its all fair <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

susand

02-24-2005, 09:05 PM

<DIV>Crafting and trading is a big part of this game. It was meant to be a big part of it. Dont buy the crafters products if you don't want to, okay? But if they make the vendor bought stuff just as good as the player made and price it so cheaply that all the whiny [Removed for Content] are happy, why not just do away with the requirement altogether? Make everyone have an unlimited power supply. Better yet make the spells and abilities not require any so everyone can just run around nuking to their hearts content. If that is the kind of game you want to play, go find yourself a good first person shooter. Because of whiners, we now have locked encounters that took away a lot of the danger and excitement of adventuring. Now the whiners want to turn the crafting occupation into just another time sink like the original everquest's crafting turned into. Just get over it and go about your business.</DIV>

Alis

02-24-2005, 09:15 PM

<DIV>The complaint is you could always buy crafter food it was always better, yet they nerfed the alternative. So either we are stuck paying whatever price the crafter thinks fair or lvling much slower. This is a nerf to either your pocket or lvling. This is not an attack on provisioners or crafters generally just annoyed to be given such poor options. Had I known such a major change would come into effect I would have been a provisioner for my own needs but sadly they have not implemented a way to change so my outfitter can stay at lvl10 and useless to me.</DIV>

Lig

02-24-2005, 10:36 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alisan wrote:<BR> <DIV>The complaint is you could always buy crafter food it was always better, yet they nerfed the alternative. So either we are stuck paying whatever price the crafter thinks fair or lvling much slower. This is a nerf to either your pocket or lvling. This is not an attack on provisioners or crafters generally just annoyed to be given such poor options. Had I known such a major change would come into effect I would have been a provisioner for my own needs but sadly they have not implemented a way to change so my outfitter can stay at lvl10 and useless to me.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Hey I have an idea... Start a provisioner... lvl them to 40+ and then come and talk to me about how much we overcharge.</P> <P>K... thnx... bah bye</P>

Boza

02-24-2005, 10:49 PM

The rest of the community should not be punished because you choose to "play" a button-mashing simulation that could be mastered by a nursery school student. I'll reiterate: if your complaint is that crafting takes too much time, why are you doing it? The rest of us came to the conclusion long ago that it was boring, banal, and not at all challenging or fun. The fact that you have copious amounts of free time on your hands which allow you to mindlessly mash the same 3 crafting buttons long enough to churn out stacks of food for which you overcharge should not affect the playtime of the rest of the EQ2 gaming community. Period. The system was fine the way that it was before, until whiny Provisioners cried about the fact that people who actually play the game for a challenge weren't forced to buy their product and could buy a viable alternative at a reasonable price from a NPC vendor.

sageofkor

02-25-2005, 12:27 AM

<DIV>LOL, to funny. We all read the EQ2 reviews and if you did not. .Well I feel sorry for you. Most reveiws stated that EQ2 would be very trade skill dependant. IF you do not like the system and want to just grind away there are plenty of games that provide that. Have fun in WOW *grin* that may be a style of game that most would injoy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said. You pay for what you get.. IF you do not want the speedy power regen, *shrug* by drinks from the merchant. They will suit you just fine. *shrug* So don't buy from the so called greedy provisioners that have taken alot of time to bring up there skills to make these items. There time doing that has no diffrence then your time adventuring. Just like you when you go out to hunt you want a just reward when you hit the end of your play time. Do not begrudge there on the way they choose to play and how they see there reward for the time spent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Lancealittle

02-25-2005, 01:01 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sageofkorel wrote:<BR> <DIV>LOL, to funny. We all read the EQ2 reviews and if you did not. .Well I feel sorry for you. Most reveiws stated that EQ2 would be very trade skill dependant. IF you do not like the system and want to just grind away there are plenty of games that provide that. Have fun in WOW *grin* that may be a style of game that most would injoy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said. You pay for what you get.. IF you do not want the speedy power regen, *shrug* by drinks from the merchant. They will suit you just fine. *shrug* So don't buy from the so called greedy provisioners that have taken alot of time to bring up there skills to make these items. There time doing that has no diffrence then your time adventuring. Just like you when you go out to hunt you want a just reward when you hit the end of your play time. Do not begrudge there on the way they choose to play and how they see there reward for the time spent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There are many play styles in this game. You can be almost 100% adventuere and hope to get all your gear from mob drops. You can also equip yourself with questing. A third option is to rely entirely on cash and crafters to outfit yourself. All three types play this game, and each type would also like to see the game support their play style fully.</P> <P>With some exceptions there are two ways to get food. NPC vendor or player provisioner. Buying food from a store is just for convenience, and it's now as crappy as buying your sword from a vendor. That's how it should be. I'm all for lower quality store food.</P> <P>Some quests give food rewards, but I've only found a tier one quest that was repeatable.</P> <P>I'd like to see repeatable food quests in every outdoor adventure zone to give a third alternative to where you can get your food. I'm a quester, and I have bags full of quest rewards that I've not found someone to give it away to. I can pretty much play with zero crafter dependence except for food and spells. I don't use arrows or poisons, so no crafter needs for me there.</P> <P>They could also make some food drop from mobs too. Perhaps make mob meat edible as low quality without being prepared by a provisioner. Humanoids could also drop canteens of muddy water to give a drink option. </P> <P> </P>

Boza

02-25-2005, 01:03 AM

sageofkorel,Time does not equal talent. From your post, it's clear that your crafting time comes at the expense of the English class that you keep skipping. Please recall that I stated that I *did* read the advance articles about this game, and I was perfectly happy with the way provisioner dependency worked before the most recent patch. Only after weeks of whining and puling by the talentless, shut-in Krafting Kreeps did the devs cave and make the change so that we are all now completely dependent on slow-witted twits who think that being able to press colored buttons in sequence equates to "work" or "skill." If you want to do that all day, buy a Pocket Simon, they're cheaper and you don't have to pay 15 bucks a month. The only people I can see this patch benefiting in the long run are the gold eBayers. Since you've clearly thought out your holier-than-thou justification so well, why don't you expound for a minute on why we are now so much more dependent on provisioners than ANY OTHER CLASS, adventuring or tradeskilling, in the entire game? I'd love to hear it--make sure you add an extra special part that talks about how useless the other tradeskills are in comparison...I'm sure all the Carpenters would love to hear that. Having some tradeskill dependency is one thing--having a stranglehold on a captive market is quite another. At the very least they need to add quest-able food/drink and mobs need to start dropping food/drink items. There's absolutely no reason that provisioners should be granted such a lock on the economy.*edited to fix paragraphs...Lithium apparently doesn't care for Mozilla.*<p>Message Edited by Bozack on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:06 PM</span>

Radulank

02-25-2005, 08:00 PM

<blockquote><hr>Bozack wrote:sageofkorel,Time does not equal talent. From your post, it's clear that your crafting time comes at the expense of the English class that you keep skipping. Please recall that I stated that I *did* read the advance articles about this game, and I was perfectly happy with the way provisioner dependency worked before the most recent patch. Only after weeks of whining and puling by the talentless, shut-in Krafting Kreeps did the devs cave and make the change so that we are all now completely dependent on slow-witted twits who think that being able to press colored buttons in sequence equates to "work" or "skill." If you want to do that all day, buy a Pocket Simon, they're cheaper and you don't have to pay 15 bucks a month. The only people I can see this patch benefiting in the long run are the gold eBayers. Since you've clearly thought out your holier-than-thou justification so well, why don't you expound for a minute on why we are now so much more dependent on provisioners than ANY OTHER CLASS, adventuring or tradeskilling, in the entire game? I'd love to hear it--make sure you add an extra special part that talks about how useless the other tradeskills are in comparison...I'm sure all the Carpenters would love to hear that. Having some tradeskill dependency is one thing--having a stranglehold on a captive market is quite another. At the very least they need to add quest-able food/drink and mobs need to start dropping food/drink items. There's absolutely no reason that provisioners should be granted such a lock on the economy.*edited to fix paragraphs...Lithium apparently doesn't care for Mozilla.*<p>Message Edited by Bozack on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:06 PM</span><hr></blockquote>just a quick question, so pushing buttons in crafiting is done by slow-witted twits, but HO's that flash the buttons you have to press are done by skilled adventures that are doing work?Again, becuase of this thread I went out last night and adventured w/o any food. None. for 8 hours I played. I was Main Tank. SK. And you know what? I did just fine. No deaths, no horrid down times, just had to be more carefull and save mana/power for taunts and like. But we did it, and we advanced at same rate we do when i have provisionar food. It was just more CHALLENGING. Go figure.Also checked merchants in Freeport. There is high satation 30min merchant food for every lvl avalable from merchants. If this isn't good enuff for you, then buy player made or not.But it is silly to say that crafting is a waste of your time, but then require others to "waste" their time so that you can benifit from it. And then you don't want to pay them.If mobs droped food, how is that going to help when you can buy food drink? Are you saying mob drops that are as good as player food? (then provisionars would be only class not able to make superior quality to mob drops)just my 2cp. and i'll repeat it: IT IS NOT THAT BIG A DEAL. EITHER BUY IT OR DON'T. but it isn't going to keep you from advancing your adventure class if you don't.

Darqz

02-25-2005, 08:40 PM

<DIV>Radulanken,</DIV> <DIV> I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. You can adventure without using HOs. It is also true that you can trade skill without pressing buttons but the difference is you loose quality. Adventuring doesn't require HOs but the use of class skills and paying attention. I'm sure if you for example went out last night and adventured and hammered away at your taunts for every fight you would progress slower than trying to work with a tactic. I'm also sure if you fought a mob and your entire group just hit auto attack and walked away there would be a fun CR/Revive session. However you can craft and get up and walk away. Will you make pristine items? Probably not. Will you get killed? Depending upon how high your level is and what your doing (IE forge work) there is a chance you may. Also I'm not sure if you read the title of the thread but it does say (Reducing Store-Bought food's Regen by 66% = Bad Move). Yes you can buy high satation food for 30mins from a vendor but if I'm not mistaken its Tier one high satation. That works great till you get to T4/T5 in requirements. The resentment that many people are feeling right now is that we are being forced to other slow down as an adventure due to using vendor/no food, or buying food from players that are price gouging for thier time. No other tradeskill class that I can see (other than alchemists for Scout classes) has a lock on a daily adventuring class. I'm not being told that I have to buy armor upgrades from tradeskillers. When I can't afford it I spend the time and run quests to get armor. Many provisioners are price gouging and saying its a big amount of thier time to make stacks of food/drink. I agree it is a big deal and they should be compensated, but what many people miss is that they are being compensated. They are getting xp for every item they make and they are leveling. They can sell back thier goods to the vendors and recoup thier losses (I know I've tried and while I did not make money I did not loose money either.) One thing I should mention is if you go to a broker and look at any skill for your class you will see SKILLS that adventures use being priced fairly by all the other tradeskillers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I do have to admit you are right we should stop complaining and other buy provisioner food or don't. However I don't find it fair to make a group wait for me to get power or to get into a group and have to constantly wait for people to get power just because they can not afford the higher prices. In some dungeons this won't even work because the repop is such a constant thing that if your group isn't on its toes and has a decent regen on thier power your going to be doing a CR/Evac. </DIV>

Moriga

02-25-2005, 09:33 PM

<DIV>While we are busy becoming the most hated class on the servers I thought I would put my two cents in from a provisioners point of view. I created this alt to feed my main and those of 3 family/friends who came to this game together. I have never sold food. I also have a sage and they are close in level. It takes almost twice as long to make a single stack of coffee ( with out cream and sugar) as it does to craft 20 spells. I no longer sell back my failures as they only recoup fuel and water. I harvest all my own supplies. With the competition for foraging the way it is and so many doing it on the faster ponies, 6 hours in EL did not provide me with a full stack of apples or scallions which I desperately need. My recipe books are now over 3 gold each and the wholesaler tasks no longer earn enough money to pay for the books unless I do 7 per level, at a stack of scallions or apples per tradeskill task this is no longer viable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My provisioner is now a sink hole for the money I make adventuring with my main. And of course everyone in the guild now wants me to make them 2 or 3 stacks of 3 hour food and drink. About 8 hours of crafting to do that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree that it would have been far better to make player made food better, like the superior food they sold at the holidays and let NPC food fill the bill for those who need it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Befallen food prices are insane. I have seen tier 4 jerky for a few silver and tier 1 drink listed at 1 gold. I agree there should be caps on pricing as well as a tier listing for each item from the main page. You shouldn't have to inspect everything to determine its level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have no doubt that there are provisioner bots out there that are thrilled with the changes. But not all of us. I for one am about ready to hang up my oven mitts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good Luck to you all,</DIV> <DIV>Morgaine of Befallen</DIV>

Moriga

02-25-2005, 09:37 PM

Ender

02-25-2005, 09:46 PM

I just buy food/drink a tier higher than me from NPC vendors, it's a way around the nerf and it's still cheaper than what most provisioners charge. I don't buy from provisioners for two reasons:1. I don't feel like paying high prices.2. If I die, the 2 hour drink I bought has just gone to waste.

Lancealittle

02-25-2005, 10:43 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radulanken wrote:<BR><BR>If mobs droped food, how is that going to help when you can buy food drink? Are you saying mob drops that are as good as player food? (then provisionars would be only class not able to make superior quality to mob drops)<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If food followed the dropped quality that mobs already have for weapons, armor and jewelry, then the normal dropped food would be about as good as NPC vendor food. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since there are no 'rare' harvested items for food I can't see a reason to make mob dropped or quested food as good as player food.</DIV>

Darqz

02-25-2005, 11:45 PM

<DIV>Morigana,</DIV> <DIV> I don't think you are the most hated class on the server. I think we save that for the GM Class :smileyvery-happy:. I do however feel your pain. I have a weaponsmith and an alchemist. While the class dependancy bit assisted my weaponsmith it has killed my alchemist. I have just started a provisioner just because I need food for my main. However that money drain feeling you get is across the board. All tradeskillers feel that way. I myself can't unload my wares unless I sell them next to cost because nobody really wants to buy player made weapons (since dropped/quested is much better/free) and Alchies are well dead. One thing to consider though is that your food that you make as a provisioner is always a final product. Unlike having to take raw materials and refine them and then use them to build, you can take your base product and refine it once and get food, use that product again and you've made a whole new item. I do agree though with a previous post that I saw before stating that if you could get cups and plate from say another class and use that to take your final product and produce slices/canteens to make quantities that the provisioner's prices would drop. The only problem I see with this is that is part of what SOE tried to do with eliminating the Alchi class. Jewlers/scribes/etc said they had a high price to pay for Worts and inks but the prices have stayed the same now that anyone can make it.</DIV>