To attune, or not to attune

[digitalblasphemy]

Well my first topic on this subject disappeared so one can only attempt again to voice their fears and thoughts about how this game is going to turn out with these proposed changes. But this time emotion has been checked at the door and manners been given a fresh buff.The proposed "attune" only change concerns me. I'm not a plat farmer like some have subtley suggested. Let's think that one through for a few seconds lol. If I was some asian plat farming crew, why would I be posting here and voicing my concerns about this proposed change? If anything, making items attune only would play into the hands of the plat farmers as they would have an advantage in camping a named mob all day long 7 days a week. The supply for such items could be controlled and thus the prices affected as well.To put it simply if an item was not available at a reasonable price on the brokers after me first trying to earn it from a mob drop, I would end up camping that mob for as long as it took to get that item. Once I set my sights on something I am very determined to get it. If that means spending days, a week, 2 weeks on end to kill a mob for a drop, then for the lack of any other options that is what I'll have to do. But that is selfish and not thinking of others in this game right? I'm hogging the name etc. and not playing fair. On that point I agree with you. Yes it's not fair to the others who also want to kill the named and get the loot it possibly may drop. But how else am I going to get that item I am after? By paying inflated prices on the brokers? I would be so lucky if it was as simple as just paying the coin and receiving the item. But for the most of us money does not grow on trees. If it were not for the ability to upgrade to new armor/weapons and sell the older stuff at a reduced loss, many of us would still be running around with grey armor and weapons.Now I've presented what to me, seems a simple point of view from an Adventurer's perspective. I'm not a crafter so cannot give the flipside of this situation and how you would be affected or benefited by this change.If a crafter would please post their views on how they are affected by this "attuned" change, it would help me and hopefully others to undestand how this would benefit the game. At the moment it feels like this change favors the crafters but also is a negative for any person who uses armor and weapons.I'd like to see a fuller picture on how everyone is affected. I don't want to live in the past and remember how this game used to be, and how everything is getting worse. I'm in the present and first and foremost want to have fun playing this game with friends and experience what there is on offer in EQ2.

[Trei]

To put it simply, if an item a crafterA made is going to exist forever, then that's potentially an infinite number of new customers lost since they can buy the A-made item second-hand from the original buyer, thereby causing A to lose revenue.It's either this or the "omg-pls-no" usual item decay system.A rough IRL analogy would be ..well.. music CDs and piracy.Nevetheless, you came across to me from your post that you are still assuming that attuned means use 'n' destroy.No need to worry about that coz we will be able to sell attuned items back to NPC traders.

[digitalblasphemy]

Hi Trei,well let's say I purchase a rubicite bp for 2pp. I attune it and use it for quite awhile. When it comes time to upgrade I'm gonna get the same merchant buyback rate I'd get now which is 6g40s. But if the system is like it is now, I would be able to sell it on the merchants for 50-75g. So in a sense it is use'n destroy as the buy back rate is going to be insulting. It always has and I don't see that changing.Your point about crafted items being on the market forever is true. But crafted items will far outway the looted high end items. And unless you are using a rare for a recipe, crafted items can be made very quickly compared to how long it takes to get a high end looted item. There is already a big discrepancy between the work required to aquire a looted high end item and a regular pristine crafted item. Now all the advantages are in the crafters corners and they can essentially churn these babies out until the market is flooded with them. Good for prices I imagine but what happens then. Saying attune is ok because of a buy back npc is not convincing me I will be better off in this system. It's gonna cost me so much more to continue playing. My income will not be increased, it's going to be decreased. The availability for items will decrease thus driving up prices. Being able to recoup costs from selling old equipment will be as bad as the current npc sell rates. The only winners out of this proposed change are the crafters. Because me and anyother adventurer who is high end is going to get the shaft basically.<p>Message Edited by digitalblasphemy on <span class=date_text>02-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:29 PM</span>

[Iseabeil]

<DIV>removing items from the market may seem like its only good for crafters. that is true in short term. in long term it is good for everyone tho, as it will help keep a stable economy, wich everyone benefits from. its not gonna provide any visible improvments for many, it will just help stop visible problem from arising.</DIV>

[Chou]

Reason why this is needed for crafters is because we have to crank out disgusting ammounts of items just to level. I don't think i've crafted any less than 200-400 pieces of armor per teir. Now that's just me, multiply that by lets say, 500 armorers on a server and we have 200,000+ pieces of armor per teir being handed out. Now what happens with this old armor? Of course it gets resold so the origional buyer can get some money back. That's nice, but what does this do to the next would-be armorer? The adventurer doing the resale just want's a little money back, and is free to undercut all he wants, while the next crafter must sell at a certain price just to break even from sub component cost. The result? the newer crafters will NOT have a chance in hell at starting up because old just is recirculated. This problem is mainly arising because EQ in general has always been a grueling grind, crafting is no exception. Forcing crafters to flood the market with 100's of pieces of items just to level is obsurd when those items are permanent.<p>Message Edited by Chouji on <span class=date_text>11-09-2004</span> <span class=time_text>05:09 PM</span>

[digitalblasphemy]

You hit the nail on the head Chouji. The crafters are the ones who are causing their own predicament. It's not their fault but they are causing it. There is far too many crafted items appearing on the merchants than there are looted ones. Why not go a half step instead and make crafted items attune. They are cheap. People still purchase them and they will disappear from the economy. But adventurers get the shaft from SOE trying to help the crafters. It doesn't make sense.

[Trei]

["... t if the system is like it is now, I would be able to sell it on the merchants for 50-75g. ..."]Yes but that's 50-75g that could have and should have went to the crafter, not you.I don't even have a clue how many silly items they need to make that will never touch another player's hands.Now as for looted drops, it would mean this dragon-dropped dagger of uberness you just found would have potentially a much higher market value compared to before.If you choose to use it, then it carries higher prestige value instead.And thus the result is we adventurers profit from adventuring and crafters profit from crafting, as it should be.But that's just how I see it, and I see things simplisticly(sp?) . <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[digitalblasphemy]

I think you misunderstood me Trei lol. You said "Yes but that's 50-75g that could have and should have went to the crafter, not you."Why should have 50-75g gone to a crafter? I was referring to a looted item. A crafter had no hand in me aquiring this item.I earned this item through loot or by earning money to buy it. I earned it. When I sell it, whatever amount it's currently worth on the brokers is also mine.I can't see this anyother way than you just misunderstanding my point. !?

[aeio]

You must not have looked to hard to find your other thread. It is right here on the front page of the forum.You seem to be striving for spam status with the number of duplicate topic threads you have been creating the last few days.

[digitalblasphemy]

The original topic was not there when I posted this topic. I could still access it from a bookmared url but it was not listed in this forum. It was either removed and returned or was not visible on topic list. I had no intention of duplicating the original thread.But thanks for the 1 star rating. You got one in return. To you, all people who voice their concerns are either plat farmers, flamers, spammers or idiots. 300 odd people viewed this topic before you did. Some replied, others just read. Not one rated this thread until you came along. That to me spells Troll. But no matter. I have a right to post my feedback on this game and no amount of 1 star ratings will deter anyone from doing that.<p>Message Edited by digitalblasphemy on <span class=date_text>02-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:15 PM</span>

[Trei]

["... Why should have 50-75g gone to a crafter? I was referring to a looted item. A crafter had no hand in me aquiring this item.I earned this item through loot or by earning money to buy it. I earned it. When I sell it, whatever amount it's currently worth on the brokers is also mine. ..."] <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />ooh yeah.. you got me there, I actually thought rubicite bp was a crafted item.. Ok but... my point still stands, indirectly.If everybody who got that rubicite bp keeps recycling it...- today there's 20 of those going around- by next month more people would have acquired it and add into the market say.. another 8?- by next year.... you do the math.Point here being, if this new guy is playing in ie: Jun 2007 , would he purchase crafted armor instead of easily-available rubicite bp?Of course.. well it can be said that it would probably be more of a dropped > crafted issue... I dunno.

[Trei]

omg why don't this forum have a delete own msg feature <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />sorry double post... although i have no idea how the heck it happened..<p>Message Edited by Trei49 on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:47 AM</span>

[RioR]

<DIV>I'm all for the removal of items from the system, but SOE took the easy way out. This is going to be a mistake.</DIV>

[Razie Ber]

All dropped items need attuning also..This totally eliminates the ability to resell your old gear to help pay for new gear, or adepts, etc..Now you have absolutely no choice but to tradeskill if you want any money in game.. As if tradeskillers didn't already dominate the economy.. Thanks for giving us a choice, frankly I'd rather headbutt a nail than tradeskill... GG

[Lancealittle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>digitalblasphemy wrote:<BR>Hi Trei,<BR><BR>well let's say I purchase a rubicite bp for 2pp. </P> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>Here's your problem. You payed two plat for a piece of armor that dropped off a mob. <DIV>With the pre-patch system you could use that item till you want to replace it and then sell it to someone else for 2 plat as well. You know that when you buy it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>With the new system, you know you will only be selling it for a few gold to vendor after you use it, so you would have to think hard before handing out that kind of cash. If no one wants to buy at 2 plat, then maybe he will lower the price to 20 gold or so. That would make it worth the price to have it to use.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>This is one of the systems that would have been better to have around from the start. </FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV>

[Frogmizu]

<blockquote><hr>Razie Berry wrote:All dropped items need attuning also..This totally eliminates the ability to resell your old gear to help pay for new gear, or adepts, etc..Now you have absolutely no choice but to tradeskill if you want any money in game.. As if tradeskillers didn't already dominate the economy.. Thanks for giving us a choice, frankly I'd rather headbutt a nail than tradeskill... GG<hr></blockquote>I completely agree with Razie Berry on this. I'm in the same predicament in the game. All my old gear I try to sell, now I can't sell it but for measely amounts of money. Maybe they should let mobs drop money, that would make me feel better. That, and perhaps earn interest on money left in the bank? hmmmmm........

[theplayer0670]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=120541" target=_blank><SPAN><FONT color=#66ffff>digitalblasphemy</FONT></SPAN></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>quit spamming the boards with your nonsense, you act like you havent played a Online game...ever</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Attune is a hell of a lot better than the no-drop that EQ1 uses. We lost many of items that the right class was not in the raid to loot.<BR><BR>Why Attune? Because that 3pp dagger would still be around 2 years later, but only worth 3cp since the market would be flooded with them.<BR><BR>Attune keeps the supply and demand stable.<BR></DIV>

[digitalblasphemy]

<blockquote><hr>theplayer0670 wrote:<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=120541" target=_blank><SPAN><FONT color=#66ffff>digitalblasphemy</FONT></SPAN></A></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>quit spamming the boards with your nonsense, you act like you havent played a Online game...ever</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Attune is a hell of a lot better than the no-drop that EQ1 uses. We lost many of items that the right class was not in the raid to loot.<BR><BR>Why Attune? Because that 3pp dagger would still be around 2 years later, but only worth 3cp since the market would be flooded with them.<BR><BR>Attune keeps the supply and demand stable.<BR></DIV><hr></blockquote>Whether you agree with my views or not I have a right to voice them. So it's ok for the crafters to flood the forums for the past few weeks on how their gameplay is miserable and them crying out for SOE to do something. But it's not ok for me to voice my concerns on how I've been affected by this patch? That's hypocritical of you to even suggest that. If you are calling me a spammer, then you also would have to call them spammers as well. We are both voicing our views and oppinions for a game we both pay for. Deal with it, because I'm not going anywhere.

[Lars]

<DIV>Im against having attuneable gear at all because i think it makes the whole idea of buying and selling items worthless in my eyes and more or less forces people to go artisan. If you make armour and other gear attuneable to accomodate the artisans that are moaning that alchemists and provisioners products are spent and lost after they are bought while their stuff is sold over and over again. Im very much against attuneable gear since this will deinately destroy a huge part of the realism of the game, i mean its insanely silly to think that a ring and so on will not be able to be resold or refitted for someone else but instead its gonna be destroyed after use too make some artisans happy (jeweler myself and like the system as it is). I say NO to attuneable gear because it makes the game worse and not better which should be the goal of any changes to it. How are you going to compensate the carpenters if this goes live ??? attunable beds that would be the silliest thing ive ever heard if that happens.... <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Ive had this bed and its all mine and no one else can ever have it!!!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While im on about beds my last words in this post is: Put this idea of attuneable gear to bed or bury it deep because its the worst idea ive seen for EQ2 so far. What ever happened to the idea of a free market?? This will only mess the game up so please dont let this go live!</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Lars-T on <span class=date_text>02-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:51 PM</span>

[mino]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> theplayer0670 wrote:<BR> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=120541" target=_blank><SPAN><FONT color=#66ffff>digitalblasphemy</FONT></SPAN></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>quit spamming the boards with your nonsense, you act like you havent played a Online game...ever</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Attune is a hell of a lot better than the no-drop that EQ1 uses. We lost many of items that the right class was not in the raid to loot.<BR><BR>Why Attune? Because that 3pp dagger would still be around 2 years later, but only worth 3cp since the market would be flooded with them.<BR><BR>Attune keeps the supply and demand stable.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Hey man not to add fuel to the fire or anything but how can you call someone a spammer when they have a total of 35 posts ??  and you have 147 posts.  How can you call someone that has approximately 1/6th the posts you do a spammer?  He did already state he couldn't find his other post.  Even if he is lying and didn't look (which doesn't seem like the case considering the number of posts he has made) and is spamming then just ignore posts made by him in the future but coming on a board and calling them names for doing nothing more than posting their views seems a bit hypocritical.</P> <P>if you don't agree with him thats cool but whats the point of attacking someone for posting their views?  just because they differ from your own?</P>