There is no drink available because Provisioners get too much from Writs

[inshiningarmor]

<DIV>If they want to stop money flow increase fuel costs...... but 4X per lvl?  Too much.   Stop all crafters from getting money from and writs  Wholseller... Tradeshop.... or Writ......  Stop all sales to NPC in any form finished or intrem except for FUEL costs only   Make all products turned in from Writs ect  buyable from the tradeshops that PLAYERS MAKE.    The players get SP's and SOE gets another money sink...... The adventurers do not suffer though</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> 24 gold for a stack of 10 itmes  ROTFLMAO  If I was lvl 50 Provisioner you think I would sell for less then 2.4 gold per item?   THINK ABOUT IT SOE.   You can stop the abuse, help out all players and still have your money sink.</DIV>

[Lan_Taur]

<DIV>February 10th Test Update Notes:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Tradeskill society tasks will now reward a 20% profit margin based on the fuel costs necessary to create the items.<BR>- Guild tradeskill tasks that award status will provide no monetary profit, but will pay back the costs of creating the items. The profit comes from earning status.</DIV> <DIV><BR>This has already been fixed.  However, now we get to pay much more per item for another reason: to make up for the added fuel cost. :smileyindifferent:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Lan_Tauren on <span class=date_text>02-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:54 AM</span>

[Knevil Kham]

I sell mine for less that the price of Writs. I have humdreds of drinks up in Tier 2- Tier5. Although it thins out a lot at lvl 50 because of the availability of gathered components.. but mostly its time to make the drinks. Ofthen it take 2-3 hours to make a stack that potentially could sell out in under 30 seconds. 24g a stack is the same price I sell T5 drinks for so I don't get how your all upset by the price. Availablility whould be better if they would do 5 times on yield and adjust our writs accordingly to 50 of something.please look at this...Every other craft makes more money selling to the public per item hands down.

[BWShellShocked]

<DIV>In my case (40 Prov) there are no drinks/food available, because (a) I can't use the existing vendor system, and everyone is too lazy to buy from me via /auction, (b) it takes too bloody long to make enough of anything worthwhile, and (c) harvesting my own can take an entire night. Couple that with buying from the broker being simply hit or miss.  Sometimes I can find marjoram/shallows, fayberries/apples, cinnamon/honey at a reasonable 1-5s, other times is 40s+, same with tier 5 harvests, if you can even find any at all.  Harvesting T5 without a small army at your side, is, at my adventurer level, simply impossible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since I don't want to contribute to the high price complaint, I don't buy at anything above those prices, which means I spend more time harvesting, than cooking/brewing, and grinding out guild writs.  What I am able to make in that time, is barely enough for myself and my guildmates.  When I do have extra to sell, I deal with the complaints that it costs too much.  I find that very upsetting.  It takes me just as long to make a stack of decent food/drink, as it takes any other tradeskiller to make the equivalent $$ amount of armor, furniture, or whatever.  No one complains about their prices, because they are perceived to be higher value.  Yes, I guess they are, because you only have to buy it once.  Ours is only a temporary fix.  But, it costs us the same or more to make our goods.  It takes us an incredibly long time to make just a single stack of anything decent.  It can take upwards of 2 hours to make a single stack of a tier 4 drink.  Add to that the 3-4 hrs it takes to harvest 1 stack of each of the required ingredients to make that stack, and you can see that it can literally take an entire day just to make 1 or 2 stacks of something.  Tier 3 isn't quite so bad, because you can harvest much easier due to the freedom of movement and far less aggro mobs looking to make a meal out of you.  But even Tier 3 harvests can still take 2-3 hours to gather.  So, 4-6 hrs, just to make 1-3 stacks of something?  What price would you consider fair, with all that taken into account?  If I forgo harvesting my own, and pay the typical 10-40s per item, and in the case of the examples above, 2 to 3 each, of each item is needed for all the combines to get to a saleable finish.. you can easily see that costs alone, would be nearly 1g each.  Yet we get accused of gouging.  I don't buy from vendors, it makes anything I do have to sell, far to expensive for my tastes.  When I do sell, its typically for between 10-15s.  That's as cheap as I can go, and I'm still basically selling at below cost, when you factor in the sheer amount of time it takes me just to be able to make what I have to sell.  And even then, I get the typical, but glacier water is only 1s, blah, blah, blah.  But, as I said, for me, its no longer fun to tradeskill as a provisioner, and it is hardly profitable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't speak to the reasons why others don't sell, but those are the reasons I <U>can't</U> sell.  I honestly wish I could, its why I decided to tradeskill over adventure first.  I saw the value and huge fun of providing food/drink to the world, and it *was* actually fun, for a while.  Then Jan 6th came, and well, it was no longer fun, but I still saw the value in it.  Now, not only is tradeskilling not fun, there is no longer going to be any value in it (for me).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the new "features", I will barely be able to supply myself, and will be forced into adventuring only, for the most part.  That is, if I can even do that much. 6800GT user here, nuff said on that.  The prices of fuel, will, in my case, make cooking/brewing, an extremely expensive experience, and not one I will likely be able to afford to continue.  I have no real way of selling my wares when I do make enough to sell.  Online/AFK in my room type vending is not possible for me.  I have no choice in the matter.  And, once my measley 1.5pp that I've managed to save up over the last 3 months is gone, and if adventuring can't pay me enough to be able to buy the necessities of "life" in the game, well, I don't see how I'll even be able to play at all.  So, now I will just power grind myself to 50, and consider tradeskilling done for me.  Hopefully I get there before the changes take place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What *I* don't understand is, what is the actual plan?  Is there even one at all?  First we had no writs, and low paying tasks, then wholesalers stopped paying fair price of sellbacks, but tasks were increased slightly.  Then writs were introduced with a decent way to make enough money to actually be able to afford a room, and some of the nicer things in the game (like gear, furniture, etc).  Then the tasks were increased a bit more.  And now, both are entirely taken away? I'm sorry, but I can't see any plan here at all, and tradeskilling under these conditions is far from being fun, it is actually becoming stressful.  Add to that all the extreme changes in the mechanics and dynamics of the game, and well, its just too hard to keep adapting, and trying to put on the happy face.  I'm sorry, but that is the way I honestly feel about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my perspective, your mileage will likely vary, so flame away....</DIV><p>Message Edited by BWShellShocked on <span class=date_text>02-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 AM</span>

[Nakato]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> inshiningarmor wrote:<BR> <DIV>If they want to stop money flow increase fuel costs...... but 4X per lvl?  Too much.   Stop all crafters from getting money from and writs  Wholseller... Tradeshop.... or Writ......  Stop all sales to NPC in any form finished or intrem except for FUEL costs only   Make all products turned in from Writs ect  buyable from the tradeshops that PLAYERS MAKE.    The players get SP's and SOE gets another money sink...... The adventurers do not suffer though</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> 24 gold for a stack of 10 itmes  ROTFLMAO  If I was lvl 50 Provisioner you think I would sell for less then 2.4 gold per item?   THINK ABOUT IT SOE.   You can stop the abuse, help out all players and still have your money sink.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Reality check. </P> <P>Even if there is no money at all in writs / workshop tasks I will not sell to players. The time to create food / drinks combined with the garbage broker system makes it a worthless activity to me. Sales to players just is not worth my irl time.</P> <P> </P> <P>I hope they start looking at heritage quests and raids then too. Seem odd adventures get ways to get great items and tons of status points combined while crafter writs wont even correctly calculate fuel useage and count raw materials as zero.<BR></P> <DIV>Want player made drinks up selling?</DIV> <DIV>Give multiple combines and offline selling then depending on resource useage maybe.</DIV>

[Strydyr {]

<DIV>Hey all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>30 provisioner here and I've run into the same issues as you all.  Merchant system stinks, time involved, gathering time, accused of price gouging, etc etc.  It just goes on and on.  So now, I just make stuff for the people in my guild who gather for me and stock me up.  They are quite happy no matter how much I'm able to give them.  But selling just isn't worth it.  Noone wants to pay the price except the people who have ordered from me and realize just how long it took to make it for them while they waited.  They really need to increase the amount of each combine to 5 items produced.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I had a writ that was for almond-fayberry trailmix.  I did this writ once and almost smashed my computer to pieces.  Extremely frustating.  For those that don't know, this is a 60 combine writ.  And that's if you succeed every combine.  30 of those combines are refining the cinnamon that is required for the triple combine to make 10 lousy stinking trailmix's.  The writ asks for savory which is 2nd level.  Easy enough.  It's the time involved to do this writ, the cost of the ingreds, the frustation of occasional failures.  This is not because my skill level.  All the items are BLUE.  Then when I do finish it I get a lousy 1g8s which didn't even cover my costs (unless I spent 5 hours gathering 30 [Removed for Content] cinnamon), and a pitiful 2550 status points.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you buy a breastplate you need "1".  It lasts several levels.  When you buy food/drink.  You want stacks.  If you want stacks you have to pay for time investment as well or it's not worth our time.  So since the food/drink doesn't sell cuz you non provs think it costs too much I will continue to make it for myself and a choice few guildies that supply me.  The rest of you can purchase level 40 avg, crappy 30 mins duration glacial water and pies at the EL docks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~cheers</DIV>

[ReilenBlaeyze]

6 combines is the minimum number of combines for the finished items of other classes... provisioners are blessed with such easy life.

[Droka]

<DIV>Your armor and items last multiple levels. Provisioners food and drink last a few hours. Your one product can sustain folks for a long time. Just to make enough food to sustain 1 adventurer would take 120 x 2 = 240 combines for the same amount of time used. So I really don't think your point that provisioners have it easy is accurate. I am not down playing your work at all, just I think folks don't realize that provisioners would love to provide food and drink for folks, but the amount of time for one stack of each is just plain [FaarNerfed!]. There is no way I want to spend my time locked in a kitchen just to provide a few adventures food and drink. If I could provide many folks that would make it worth it. Its not a money thing for me because I sell my stuff cheap, really cheap. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why would it be so out of line to add the ability to get multiple products from combines. The price of food would go down and more folks could get it. It will work. Either that or more of you adventures need to make a provisioner just to help meet the demand, because I for one can maybe help my friends and thats about it. If I could even do that, is yet to be determined.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wasc]

<blockquote><hr>Droka wrote:<DIV>Your armor and items last multiple levels. Provisioners food and drink last a few hours. Your one product can sustain folks for a long time. Just to make enough food to sustain 1 adventurer would take 120 x 2 = 240 combines for the same amount of time used.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Another thought: * Add more combines, combine finished products to finished products, and you get tastier foods that, while the same tier and nourishment, have a greater duration. These are highly valued by a lot of players (if you can buy a stack of 58 min duration or a stack of 3 hr duration for double the cost, which would YOU do), so not only do they take a lot longer to make, they sell out faster.Here's my point: * Regardless of how long the duration was on your food/drink, when you die it is GONE and you have to eat and drink again. This means that, unlike armor that doesn't just "go away" when you get killed (even if it does last for several levels before you looked to replace it), food and drink go away if you die. For some people, death is a CONSTANT thing that they contend with; yet, many of those people with which I have grouped seem to still buy the 3 hr duration food instead of the 58 minute food (and sometimes they don't stay alive even that long).Final combine on foods absolutely needs to provide more. Final combine on food + food = longer lasting food needs to provide even more.One cup of tea plus one cup of Jumjum juice SHOULD EQUAL two cups of Jumjum Tea.Honestly, I would love it if things like "jumjum tea" that require you to combine two finished products actually required that you combine SEVERAL finished products with one or more others, in order to acquire a LOT of finished product. In other words, you don't just mix one cup of tea with one cup of jumjum juice to end up with jumjum tea. Instead, you mix two cups of tea with three cups of jumjum juice and you end up with anywhere from three (or two, if you totally bomb your quality and manage only the first level) to five cups of jumjum tea.Eh, I didn't design this system. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[smreas]

<DIV>"Your armor and items last multiple levels. Provisioners food and drink last a few hours. Your one product can sustain folks for a long time."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You're acting like this is a disadvantage for Provisioners.  It's a huge advantage.</DIV> <DIV>If you dont' think so, then lets fix the availablity problem by changing "hours" to "weeks" on food duration.  But I doubt many provisioners would be happy with that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ibis]

comparing provisioners to other artisans, namely armorers/jewelers/etc. is screwed cause they took the weak way out of item wear yet again. Its getting to the point where that kind of system is going to be required since they also refuse to let us take apart old armor for resources.Personally my thing against provisions is really simple. I'm a fighter. I'm a guardian. I am the first one to engage a mob. I get the least OOC (out-of-combat) regen than any other archetype in the game due to the method that I, and probably every other fighter, play. And on the few occasions I have had decent food it was different but not enough for me to pay the cost requested. I wouldn't have a problem paying that if I could get the regen when fighting since I don't have the luxury of waiting 1-2 ticks outside of combat to get a tad more power as my groupmates do. The only solution is to allow me to regen in combat. Until that is done I will not be buying food until all my other wants are satisfied. I'm currently going through forged ebon armor and then on to a cedar bow and T5 combat arts. Thats a LONG road and provisioners take a very backseat due to game design.When I have an enchanter in the group my power stays high. When I have an enchanter in the group I dont eat/drink at all and still dont notice. Not because not even vendor food can make a difference, but because with enchanter regen I try and stay in fights and that is even stronger at making food ineffecitve.

[Mozar-Icebreak]

<DIV>WAIT !!!! Please wait there isnt enough food makers and alchemists yet the workshops are still low level .WAIT !!!! until these things have grown until you do this patch that will limit the peeps doing them.    Why cook for 12 hours to make what you could make in 1 combine as a carpenter!!!!!!! nerf the adventurer he is having to much fun.   </DIV>

[Renrical]

Stolen Epıtaphlevel 453 hour 22 min drink at refreshing.Needs.1 Absinthe1 RumFuel.Rum. (lvl 45)Needs1 CardamomYeastFuelAbsinthe (lvl 49)Needs1 Cardamom1 Saffron1 Wormwood1 Fuel..........now........as a 24 ranger i gave up on t5 harvesting because i die too much to get to 2 bushes. my choice yes.so i depend on other people to harvest, or i buy them off the broker.Shopping list. (average prices) -broker fee -fuel etc2 cardamom 40 silver1 saffron 20 silver1 wormwood 20 silver---------- 1g 20 silver.it takes around 3-4 minutes if you are lucky, to get to the final combine refreshing. not counting the last minute flops to normal quality.a stack would cost just to make 24g. and 1 hour 20 mins.in return for around 105 hours of adventuring power regen.Now. why would I sell this for less than 2-2.5 gold?Oh and yes, they hardly sell.I know there are other recipes. just giving this as an example.