Did anyone think about this game prior to launch? We are ready to close 3 accounts.

[tastish]

<DIV>The many, many changes that continue to unfold lead me to believe that EQ2 Developement Team really had no far reaching vision of how this game would obviously unfold. We have 3 accounts in our house and we have worked very hard to build a strong crafting team. We control 9 crafters plus 2 extra alchemist, all over level 40. One of us is in the top 10 worlds wealthiest catagory (we pool our income). Our first major dissapointment in regards to making game money was when the entire Provisioner class was reduced to dust, then came the ruin of the Alchemist. The "fun" has slowly left the game for crafters, as is common for a game that states its intent on being focused on artisans, but really is focused on adventuring. This is the first time that we have gotten together to agree that after this next update goes live, which will take away the gold made from writs we will close our 3 accounts and do something else with our $60 per month payment to SOE. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If SOE thinks that crafters can really be satisfied being forced to sell on the "boards" only, then in my opinion, those SOE employees that are making that decision no very little about the community of crafters. The result of the changes that continue to force us to do that mean that whatever we were able to make will be reduced by 80%. This is not an exageration. Even now sales are slow for crafted items and that is below the average sales prices. This will only get worse, as has been proven after the prior crafter changes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is nothing wrong with players that want to be wealthy and hord their gold. This is one drive of many crafters. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh why bother... nevermind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>CJ</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[SnowKnight]

<DIV>They may as well replace the SOE logo on startup with a raised middle finger. At least wed know where we stand then.</DIV>

[aeio]

Probably shouldn't play MMOGs if you can't deal with ongoing change. These games change and evolve over days, months and years. Creating a static staid world would lead to absolute apathy and disinterest.As things are continually balanced (it is folly to believe you can completely balance a game of this magnitude and complexity during a beta test), new content is added and changes are made, things need to be constantly tweaked and adjusted.Some people, apparently have no mechanism to succesful cope with change. Those people need to probably look for a different genre of games. There is not a single MMOG that has not undergone continual and significant scale changes during their lifetime, and there never will be. It is the lifeblood of these games.If you don't like how something is currently working, then provide your feedback to enact future change. But just giving up the ghost because you don't like a particular change, especially in the face of a patch which offers tons of overall game improvements appears to me as being unrealistic.My biggest pet peeve with MMOG players, in general, is a serious lacking ability to see the big picture. Everyone is very focused on me, me, me, I, I, I and only on how things impact them. Very few players seem to possess the ability to see the bigger picture and how changes impact the future and the balance of the game. And it is not just this game but every MMOG I have ever played for any significant amount of time.EQ1, UO, WOW, EQ2, SWG, AO, DAOC, EQOA, AC, AC2 etc etc. They all make changes with the intent of improving their game and their game world. The position that MMOG game developers are out to get you or screw you is pretty funny. Because I see the same exact complaints in all of those games and others I have played. Somehow the developers are out to screw the players and make their play experience as miserable as possible. A rational person has to know that is not true.

[kr8ztwin]

<DIV>ROFL omg are you serious?  One of you is in the top 10 wealthiest and the new changes might do what? affect your income? haha omg I feel so sorry for you and your "TEAM."  God I am so glad these changes are upsetting people like you.</DIV>

[A]

<blockquote><hr>tastishar wrote:<DIV>The many, many changes that continue to unfold lead me to believe that EQ2 Developement Team really had no far reaching vision of how this game would obviously unfold. We have 3 accounts in our house and we have worked very hard to build a strong crafting team. We control 9 crafters plus 2 extra alchemist, all over level 40. One of us is in the top 10 worlds wealthiest catagory (we pool our income). </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>There is nothing wrong with players that want to be wealthy and hord their gold. This is one drive of many crafters. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Oh why bother... nevermind.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>CJ</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Your crafting team sounds like something else. I think they're called extortion rackets in other places. The fact that you've just stated that you'll quit a video game because of these "catatrophic" changes suggests that, in fact, you and your buddies were doing something else than hord your gold <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Little online selling on the side??These changes will aid the regular-casual players enjoy the game (hence 95 percent of the REAL community) and put power-crafting multi-ALT monopolies (.01 percent of the community) the way of the dodo.As stated previously, this is a Business for SOE...not a business for YOU <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> They're in the business of entertaining the largest amount of players possible. Guess what side of the fence you sit on??oh, exit to the left, plz.

[Sumadu]

<DIV> I for one want this change will just keep saying it over and over Go sony, top ten richest omg, I am glad for this change GOOOOOO SONY, </DIV>

[SnowKnight]

<DIV>What you want is a free ride. These people have worked hard for their multi team crafters, and just cause you cant be stuffed doing it doesnt mean its not viable. Of course If we dont agree with ur view we must be greedy money grubbing [Removed for Content]. In my opinion you just want something without working for it. You people would be the sort to use cheats in a single player game. If you think im [Removed for Content] of your right.</DIV>

[Mol]

<DIV>The only people this change helps are the people that have already leveled their craftsman for cheap, made their fortunes and have no NEED to spend extra on grinding TS levels , ie YOU.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS am referring to <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=8670" target=_blank><SPAN>tastishar</SPAN></A><BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Molak on <SPAN class=date_text>02-11-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>06:30 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Molak on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:30 AM</span>

[SnowKnight]

<DIV> <DIV>I'll have you know im a lvl 27 Alchemist have no other crafter alts, and am a "casual" player, yet I get screwed majorly. I just dont see whats wrong with people having more than 1 crafting alt if they choose to do so. I DO have a problem with SOE making Alchemist useless.</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by SnowKnight on <span class=date_text>02-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:19 AM</span>

[SenorPhrog]

<DIV>Geez I thought there were a bunch of cry babies in the non-gameplay area....if I ever get my testpatcher exe fixed I can't imagine why I'd come back here.   Does the OP even <EM>play </EM>on the test server?</DIV>

[SnowKnight]

<DIV>Who cares, we can all read the test notes and see the implications of this planned update. If we dont want it to go in where else are we gonna post, The Newbie Yard? [FaarNerfed!] and make a real point.</DIV>

[A]

<blockquote><hr>SnowKnight wrote:<DIV>What you want is a free ride. These people have worked hard for their multi team crafters, and just cause you cant be stuffed doing it doesnt mean its not viable. Of course If we dont agree with ur view we must be greedy money grubbing [Removed for Content]. In my opinion you just want something without working for it. You people would be the sort to use cheats in a single player game. If you think im [Removed for Content] of your right.</DIV><hr></blockquote>This is a VIDEO game, not real life. Video games are meant to be entertaining for the community of players. Hard-work in a MMORPG game should have due compensation but not to the detriment to the community. As it is now, only very few players are profiting from the system at the expense of the community. SOE is proactively moving in the right direction. No interdepencies means that i can spend some time and effort to provide my own things without having to pay a click-monkey extortionary prices. That's much more fun. Perhaps prices will reflect the true value of goods. I would be just as happy buying reasonably priced items than have to spend my game time making it. The key word in the previous sentence is REASONABLE. Perhaps you should spend some time and effort in real life, and not virtuality.'nuff said.

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SnowKnight wrote:<BR> <DIV>Who cares, we can all read the test notes and see the implications of this planned update. If we dont want it to go in where else are we gonna post, The Newbie Yard? [FaarNerfed!] and make a real point.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>I think my point was this is the area where they want feedback from the Test Server.   What your talking about is complaining/whining which granted there is plenty of on all the boards.   You can't give feedback on something you haven't experienced so I'm wondering how many of these threads they even bother reading.   I feel sorry for the people on Test (and I'm one of em) that actually try and get real feedback to the Devs.

[SnowKnight]

<DIV>This is a VIDEO game, not real life. Video games are meant to be entertaining for the community of players. Hard-work in a MMORPG game should have due compensation but not to the detriment to the community. As it is now, only very few players are profiting from the system at the expense of the community. <BR><BR>SOE is proactively moving in the right direction. No interdepencies means that i can spend some time and effort to provide my own things without having to pay a click-monkey extortionary prices. That's much more fun. Perhaps prices will reflect the true value of goods. I would be just as happy buying reasonably priced items than have to spend my game time making it. The key word in the previous sentence is REASONABLE. <BR><BR>Perhaps you should spend some time and effort in real life, and not virtuality.<BR><BR>'nuff said. </DIV> <DIV>------------</DIV> <P>1s per vial of t3 wash is extortion? OMG NO!!! You really must be poor in game if you cant afford 1s for wash. Of course the 20s per vial of carbon ink that i charge must really be ripping people off. As for that RL comment, shows how immature you really are. Wow lets insult people cause they play a game I play too. LOL!</P>

[SnowKnight]

<DIV>And what I'm saying is if we see the notes in the server and read them its pretty obvious alchys are getting screwed over hard. And if we dont want it to go live where else are we going to post to get the devs attention?</DIV>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SnowKnight wrote:<BR> <DIV>And what I'm saying is if we see the notes in the server and read them its pretty obvious alchys are getting screwed over hard. And if we dont want it to go live where else are we going to post to get the devs attention?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>  Do you really think they are going to read complaints that rant and rave?  I gurantee they can tell if a thread is actual feedback in the first few sentences and walk away from the rest unless it gets ugly and lock it up.   I'm sure the  "Did anyone think about this game prior to launch" thread is bookmarked on the Devs browser to keep up with the riveting insight in this thread.  </FONT></DIV>

[A]

Responding to SnowKnight:Odd, the average price for carbons on Oasis is 80-100sp.Odd, the average price for ash quills is 25-45sp.Odd, the average price for tapa paper is 15-30sp.h, you MUST be on the Wal-Mart server. Apologies. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Consider 30-40 spells to craft per level...how much will it cost to go from tier 2-3? Please do the math.Let me guess..."grind an ALT woodworker and an alchemist"...oh, that's fine...i have 24/7 to play a video game and my little sister can grind when i sleep. What was I thinking!! good gracious me!OAnd, just for your information...it was you who was disparaging to me, sir.Have a nice day. oh, and...no tissue for you <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Aia on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:57 AM</span><p>Message Edited by Aia on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:02 AM</span>

[SnowKnight]

<DIV>Well they dont seem to read the ones that are phrased nicely thats for sure. And no i dont play on the "wal mart" server thats what I sell them for.</DIV>

[Darqz]

<DIV>While I may be new to the crafting area (only one char has crafting above 20) I can say I understand why they "nerf" or "fix" some of the crafters.  Alchemists for example (I started one to make poisons for my assassin) don't rely much on the other crafters to create items for them.  I believe outside of poison vails and such from Jewlers that most of that stuff is made from scratch.  However almost everyone needs something from an Alchemist.  My weaponsmith can't complete one item on his own without having to get things from alchemists, tailors, woodworkers, and sometimes jewelers.  Thats just the way it is though.  Provisioners have it kind of made out of all of the crafters because at the high end adventuring game you really have no choice but to buy a provisioner's goods to keep your power/health regening fast enough.  With this being said to make the game balanced and fun for all of the crafters (because lets face it there has to be balance in everything) certain adjustments have to be made.  If you can sell back to the vendor and make more money than you can to a player then excess money is being made in the world.  This kinda drives the economy into disarray.  If you look at it as an adventure imagine camping a certain rare and controlling that rare.  This happened alot to Live with the Power Guilds.  While I can congradulate you for being one of the top 10 richest players in EQ2 and I can see where you are coming from I hope you understand that sometimes this happens for the best.    Just like if there was one class of adventures (for example a Paladin) that could be the best fighter, best healer, and best nuker that could solo ^^ group x3 mobs then that class would be "adjusted" to fit in line with the other classes.  Many people may not like this because they like to be uber, but its for the betterment of the game.  I understand your frustrations but look at the difficulty increase as a challenge to you.  If the game was easy wouldn't it be boring?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for why Sony does what it does, I can speak as a software developer myself.  You may think you have all the bugs worked out but human nature will find a way to exploit your code that you could never think of.  Its not that Sony didn't think about the game, I'm pretty sure they have, but some things escape people from time to time.  As it stands right now Fighters are outdamaging Mages/Scouts till this next patch.  If things are looking bad for you right now, stick it out.  They will probably get tweaked again in another month or so and be churning out plat again in no time soon.  </DIV>

[Azamien-Dermorate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tastishar wrote:<BR> <DIV>The many, many changes that continue to unfold lead me to believe that EQ2 Developement Team really had no far reaching vision of how this game would obviously unfold. We have 3 accounts in our house and we have worked very hard to build a strong crafting team. We control 9 crafters plus 2 extra alchemist, all over level 40. One of us is in the top 10 worlds wealthiest catagory (we pool our income). Our first major dissapointment in regards to making game money was when the entire Provisioner class was reduced to dust, then came the ruin of the Alchemist. The "fun" has slowly left the game for crafters, as is common for a game that states its intent on being focused on artisans, but really is focused on adventuring. This is the first time that we have gotten together to agree that after this next update goes live, which will take away the gold made from writs we will close our 3 accounts and do something else with our $60 per month payment to SOE. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If SOE thinks that crafters can really be satisfied being forced to sell on the "boards" only, then in my opinion, those SOE employees that are making that decision no very little about the community of crafters. The result of the changes that continue to force us to do that mean that whatever we were able to make will be reduced by 80%. This is not an exageration. Even now sales are slow for crafted items and that is below the average sales prices. This will only get worse, as has been proven after the prior crafter changes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is nothing wrong with players that want to be wealthy and hord their gold. This is one drive of many crafters. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh why bother... nevermind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>CJ</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>so can I have your stuff?</DIV>

[Azamien-Dermorate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SnowKnight wrote:<BR> <DIV>Who cares, we can all read the test notes and see the implications of this planned update. If we dont want it to go in where else are we gonna post, The Newbie Yard? [FaarNerfed!] and make a real point.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <CENTER><FONT size=3><B>This board is intended for players on the Test server to provide feedback on new features and content. It is not a general server board, nor is it a place for non-testers to ask general questions or post opinions.<BR><BR><FONT color=red>To keep this board as useful as possible, posts from players not actually participating on Test server may be moved or deleted.</B></FONT></FONT></CENTER></DIV>

[Elektra34]

<DIV>Perhaps we post here because you are so ignorant and dont listen to what we try to say elsewhere.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change is NOT WANTED. People have worked hard to get their crafters to the position they are in but of course you dont want to hear that. You only hear the whiners saying crafters make too much money and should be nerfed so you give everyone the ability to make all their components. What happened to interdependency?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try listening to your players more often and you will find you have less time to come up with moronic ideas that no one wants.</DIV>

[LoL|CreasianDevai]

<DIV> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you play on Test server, please post your feedback on game changes here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you don't play on Test, please don't reply to this thread. Post on the general Test board.</DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and i highlight again..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you don't play on Test, please don't reply to this thread. Post on the general Test board.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont bash people coming here not on test.. we got the invititation to come did we not to reply?</DIV>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elektra34 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Perhaps we post here because you are so ignorant and dont listen to what we try to say elsewhere.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change is NOT WANTED. People have worked hard to get their crafters to the position they are in but of course you dont want to hear that. You only hear the whiners saying crafters make too much money and should be nerfed so you give everyone the ability to make all their components. What happened to interdependency?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try listening to your players more often and you will find you have less time to come up with moronic ideas that no one wants.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Perhaps I post here because I play on the test server and perhaps having 2 Tier 3 crafters myself....wait for it.....I like the new changes.   Try listening to other players more often and you will find you may not be as right as you think you are.<BR>

[Elektra34]

<DIV>well i'm a lvl 43 alchemist i suppose you think this change is good for us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Instead of being so [FaarNerfed!] arrogant you might consider the vast majority of opinions posted in these forums are against the change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What do you suggest alchemists make after this patch? I'd be interested to hear from your 'wealth' of tradeskill experience.</DIV>

[Smaele]

<DIV> <DIV>Ignore this post I completely messed it up</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>God I hate the way this board functions some time</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Smaelens on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:43 AM</span>

[Jeridor]

I've not agreed with many changes made during the post-release dev of EQ2, but most of them I do agree with. I think there's still a lot to be worked out, but I think they're showing they're trying.If you're irate right now at the recent changes, please give me a moment to explain my thoughts before you decide I'm a flag-waving SOE fanboy because I'm certainly not.As a game developer myself (NOT associated with SOE) I understand the pains to find a balance between long-term longevity and making people happy. And that's before you even get into the fact that people want different things so a solution may please some while driving others mad at the same time.There's a lot of trial and error involved in development of something like this. A lot of things look great on paper (er... screen) but when you put them in place they don't work as you intended. Let me give two examples:-----------------------------------------Tradeskills:-----------------------------------------In theory, if most of the other crafters in the world need interims from you then you can sell these at a decent price and make money and be happy. Also in theory, if you need interims, they'll be available because, hey, everyone needs money right? However in practice, there are some problems.First of all, it's hard to predict how many people will craft, how large communities will be. Are there enough people who could make X item for you? Are there enough buyers if you're the one making X?Secondly, relative value. Does X cost so much that you can't profit much or at all on your final product? If you're the seller, you're not going to sell below the price you can vendor the item for and this has been a constant issue. The devs tried to correct this by lowering the price items sell to vendors for. Well, this hasn't been too effective because people either lived with marginal profit or took a loss, and then sold the occasional final product for much higher prices than before.So now what they're doing is working on the first issue - community. Obviously not enough people are making interims and I don't mean "WORT" here. I mean your metal plates, your quills, your metal studs, your inks, and so on. Secondly, obviously there's not enough buyers to make the items you make a profitable venture for you, while at the same time the devs seem to guard money income from tradskilling quite a bit (that's me politely saying they're being stingy) which I can only assume is because of the thought that you should be making money off players. This logic is flawed however, since we have the aforementioned community issue. Still, they're trying to give you a way to "profit" by way of guild and personal status, which is indeed a form of commodity.Now, is their approach to this issue by removing dependencies the best choice? An argument could be made either way. I think that the reason most of us object is because it's like a cheap fix to most of us. Most of us like the dependency, we just want it to actually work as intended and always have buyers and sellers of all interims and refines. In the end, that's easier said than done.-----------------------------------------Combat:-----------------------------------------I'm referring in great part to the changes to fighters. I don't think the EQ2 team ever intended scouts to do less damage than fighters, but some players of fighters are still upset at the changes coming in. Still, let's look at how the devs could have made the mistake of making fighters more powerful.First there's the strength bonus. Well, apparently it seemed okay when the numbers were worked out. Obviously strength is getting out of hand however and needs some taming so that it's a bonus but not an insane one.Secondly, let's look at scouts. Scouts utilize a lot of abilities that require care to use properly, such as position, stealth, etc. I think what's happened here is probably a case of the devs seeing the raw numbers of what a well played scout can do and feeling content they outdamaged fighters. However, we all know that many people simply don't play at optimal levels with the arts and abilities they have. So seeing this, the natural reaction might be to make scouts stronger so that you don't have to play optimally, just decent, to maintain your place in the "power pyramid" as I've been calling it. That sounds great, until you factor in people who DO play optimally who are mopping the floor with everything. Now your fix just broke something else! This is the kind of thing that happens all the time in design and development of these games.-----------------------------------------What I'm really getting at here is that there is a lot of problems that crop up during the life of a game. First you have initial balance concerns that take a lot of time to work out, and this is exaggerated by having an online community of diverse players. Then, when you get a good handle on the game's systems, you add content and that content means some things have to be rebalanced all over again.Folks, this is a dynamic, living thing and just as the game grows, so we as players have to adapt to changes and try to work with them while giving fair and frank feedback to the developers. I think it's important that if you see a problem in an idea the devs are pursuing, you post that and explain your concerns. But this idea of "I'm quitting and canceling all my accounts" or "The devs hate us all!" really isn't fair and it accomplishes nothing. If you're so livid you can't post without being calm and collected, you need to give yourself some cooldown time. If the cooldown time doesn't work and you don't think you can post in a reasonable, calm manner, maybe you should indeed consider quitting because obviously the design and methodology the staff uses doesn't agree with you. We try to avoid foods that will cause us extreme discomfort and I think the same applies to games in cases of extreme discontentment.Thanks for listening. BTW, if you're feeling miserable with some of the changes going on consider this: It could be worse, you could be on the dev team!

[GeriMa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aia wrote:<BR><BR><BR>As stated previously, this is a Business for SOE...not a business for YOU <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> They're in the business of entertaining the largest amount of players possible. Guess what side of the fence you sit on??<BR><BR>oh, exit to the left, plz.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Aia you're absolutely wrong!!! Till I pay to SOE for Playing it's a business of me and you and the other palyers too!!!!! Not only SOE!!! If they'll make the game free it'll be only there own business!!!<BR>

[theplayer0670]

<DIV>A team of crafting bots</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i really feel sorry for you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>please move on and join the nameless masses in that other game where tradeskills are trivial</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>bye</DIV>

[Tenafly Vip]

<DIV><SPAN> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2><SPAN>MAN!, the hypocrisy of some, so what if someone wants to use these boards to voice their frustrations.... they pay for that right. So how about we let them without feeling the need to take shots at their character.... I mean pointing fingers about how unconstructive a post, come on,  it's obviously coming from a person who cares about the game, just because they don't see it the same way doesn't mean they don't have a right to voice it..... you can call them crybabies and whiners, and who knows that may be true of some, but if they are the crybabies then the rest of you are *** holes plain and simple. Let them say their piece, let them state that they are leaving if that is what they want to do... how does that affect you? it doesn't, so stay out of the thread if it bothers you so much....</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>The reality here is the modern MMORPG have an incredibly short shelf life, due in part to time sinks, and mainly more competition.... if SOE was so knowledgeable in running a successful one then they wouldn't have so many offered in a $20 dollar all inclusive package, ...welcome SWG to the SOE version of an elephants graveyard where MORPG go to die, anyone who thinks that EQ2 will be any different is a fanboy. The fact is SOE has a history or rushing to market, and susequently turning their customers against them and each other. Perhaps SOE should be doing their talking for themselves instead of leaving it to different factions on a message board, all of which have NO inside info on the mindset for this game. It's all assumption and speculations as to what the fundamental theory is. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>I'll play this till it no longer amuses me, plain and simple, and then I'll spare only a brief moment and not a single tear while wiping my feet on it on the way out. This is the now generation, convenience in entertainment takes precedent when dealing with adults and the non-socially [FaarNerfed!] introverts of the world, yeah you know who you are. A game that is infact work, or a grind, instead of challenging and fun.... is ultimately doomed. It many not in the end be Blizzards game, that really revolutionizes the industry.... but their overall philosophy towards market longevity, thru a casual player friendly product, that could end up doing just that..... time will tell.... and I'll have fun with it all in the mean time. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>$15 a month is a privilege not a right, and if you only want customer interaction, when it's positive, and not when they are asking the difficult quetions, or have true concerns... that is a mistake.</FONT></P></SPAN></DIV>

[SnowKnight]

<DIV> <DIV>------</DIV> <DIV>A team of crafting bots</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i really feel sorry for you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>please move on and join the nameless masses in that other game where tradeskills are trivial</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>bye</DIV> <DIV>------</DIV> <DIV>And what evidence do you have to support this claim may I ask? Perhaps the OP has simply worked hard to get the 3 crafters up. Making blase statements like that really adds nothing to the thread.</DIV></DIV>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tenafly Viper wrote:<BR> <DIV><SPAN> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2><SPAN>MAN!, the hypocrisy of some, so what if someone wants to use these boards to voice their frustrations.... they pay for that right. So how about we let them without feeling the need to take shots at their character.... I mean pointing fingers about how unconstructive a post, come on,  it's obviously coming from a person who cares about the game, just because they don't see it the same way doesn't mean they don't have a right to voice it..... you can call them crybabies and whiners, and who knows that may be true of some, but if they are the crybabies then the rest of you are *** holes plain and simple. Let them say their piece, let them state that they are leaving if that is what they want to do... how does that affect you? it doesn't, so stay out of the thread if it bothers you so much....</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></SPAN></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>See here is the problem with people having a general lack of knowledge about these boards.  If you did a search and actually read about these boards you would see the positions of the Mods is these boards are provided as an additional service.  You do <EM>not </EM>pay for it.  Nowhere will you find something that says your subscription fee also pays for rights on these forums.   SOE can tell you what you can say and what you can't.  They can tell you where to post and whether you can post at all.   They own the forums.  But even with your own completely incorrect philosophy I can say whatever I want too since I pay for my subscription.</P> <P>As for crybabies you don't read these threads much apparently.   Somedays it seems like we're in a daycare.  The problem is no one actually takes 2 mins to find out that someone has said the <EM>exact</EM> same thing 500 times already and to be honest most people probably don't care what they think anyways.  Have a wonderful day!   And a muffin....</P><p>Message Edited by Radar-X on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:43 PM</span>

[A]

<blockquote><hr>GeriMage wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Aia wrote:As stated previously, this is a Business for SOE...not a business for YOU <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> They're in the business of entertaining the largest amount of players possible. Guess what side of the fence you sit on??oh, exit to the left, plz.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Aia you're absolutely wrong!!! Till I pay to SOE for Playing it's a business of me and you and the other palyers too!!!!! Not only SOE!!! If they'll make the game free it'll be only there own business!!!<hr></blockquote>Ummm...i don't follow your logic at all.You viciously and personally attack me in one thread for my views while not even having the common courtesy to state your own.Perhaps YOU play it as if it's a business (and I think I know what you're suggesting which I believe is a banning offense according to the legal mumbojumbo that we all "accept" before we log in) ... but for 99 percent of the player population it's for fun and a hobby. When the game stops being fun and beoomes "work" then the casual players will leave. And where does that leave SOE? Where does that leave you and all your hard work as a crafter? Furthermore, the general player population are not in EQ2 at your behest. and do have a nice day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Aia on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:16 PM</span>

[Tenafly Vip]

<DIV> <P><EM><STRONG>"See here is the problem with people having a general lack of knowledge about these boards.  If you did a search and actually read about these boards you would see the positions of the Mods is these boards are provided as an additional service.  You do not pay for it.  Nowhere will you find something that says your subscription fee also pays for rights on these forums.   SOE can tell you what you can say and what you can't.  They can tell you where to post and whether you can post at all.   They own the forums.  But even with your own completely incorrect philosophy I can say whatever I want too since I pay for my subscription."</STRONG></EM></P> <P>The h*ll we don't, then why do they require you to log in with your station account, to post... SOE will retain the right to Mod it, no doubt, and even remove content they deem unfit, or harmful to their buisness, just like SWGs.... but it is infact a service you pay for with your game subscription, because it's and extention of it, and is used as a conduet for paying customers to interact  with the Dev team.... an extentions of your subscription... and you are 100% correct you can say whatever you want, you have that right to get all red faced, stamping your feet, and all uptight about it, even when it makes you laughable . You wanna be a big man how about acting like and adult, live and let live, ignoring them and let them go away, silly rabbit cyberhardcases are a cliche.</P> <P><EM><STRONG>"As for crybabies you don't read these threads much apparently.   Somedays it seems like we're in a daycare.  The problem is no one actually takes 2 mins to find out that someone has said the exact same thing 500 times already and to be honest most people probably don't care what they think anyways.  Have a wonderful day!   And a muffin...."</STRONG></EM></P> <P>Who is making you read, comment or care about what other people are "crying" about. You're right I usually pass over childish threads, without feeling the need or compulsion to read them... it's sad that you can't help yourself but to constantly interact with people you dispise so much.... if you really didn't care you wouldn't be so twisted over it.... Waaa my life is ruined by these theads by crybabies...wa waaa. I see frustration on their part, and alot of fanboy crying being done by those who try and belittle them.... Here is a tissue..... and thanks for wishing me a wonderful day... and I'll save that muffin for later.  LOL :smileywink:</P> <P>*Edit* 5 stars jeridor</P></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tenafly Viper on <SPAN class=date_text>02-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:47 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Tenafly Viper on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:52 PM</span>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tenafly Viper wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><EM><STRONG>"See here is the problem with people having a general lack of knowledge about these boards.  If you did a search and actually read about these boards you would see the positions of the Mods is these boards are provided as an additional service.  You do not pay for it.  Nowhere will you find something that says your subscription fee also pays for rights on these forums.   SOE can tell you what you can say and what you can't.  They can tell you where to post and whether you can post at all.   They own the forums.  But even with your own completely incorrect philosophy I can say whatever I want too since I pay for my subscription."</STRONG></EM></P> <P>The h*ll we don't, then why do they require you to log in with your station account, to post... SOE will retain the right to Mod it, no doubt, and even remove content they deem unfit, or harmful to their buisness, just like SWGs.... but it is infact a service you pay for with your game subscription, because it's and extention of it, and is used as a conduet for paying customers to interact  with the Dev team.... an extentions of your subscription... and you are 100% correct you can say whatever you want, you have that right to get all red faced, stamping your feet, and all uptight about it, even when it makes you laughable . You wanna be a big man how about acting like and adult, live and let live, ignoring them and let them go away, silly rabbit cyberhardcases are a cliche.</P> <P><FONT color=#ccff00>Ok I'll play.  You show me where it says you pay for this.  Your think you're the only rocket scientist who thought they knew what they were talking about?  Why do they make you log in?  Because they don't want just anybody clogging up these boards with whatever they want to.  Its really not that difficult of a concept.   Even once again using your flawed logic SOE still owns these forums just as much as they own your characters so they aren't here for your personal platform.   If you don't believe that you might need to do some reading before you embarass yourself any further.  And red faced?  Yeah lol I'm the one cursing, mispelling words, and making up insults like "cyberhardcases" because I'm so mad about it.  </FONT></P> <P><EM><STRONG>"As for crybabies you don't read these threads much apparently.   Somedays it seems like we're in a daycare.  The problem is no one actually takes 2 mins to find out that someone has said the exact same thing 500 times already and to be honest most people probably don't care what they think anyways.  Have a wonderful day!   And a muffin...."</STRONG></EM></P> <P>Who is making you read, comment or care about what other people are "crying" about. You're right I usually pass over childish threads, without feeling the need or compulsion to read them... it's sad that you can't help yourself but to constantly interact with people you dispise so much.... if you really didn't care you wouldn't be so twisted over it.... Waaa my life is ruined by these theads by crybabies...wa waaa. I see frustration on their part, and alot of fanboy crying being done by those who try and belittle them.... Here is a tissue..... and thanks for wishing me a wonderful day... and I'll save that muffin for later.  LOL :smileywink:</P> <P><FONT color=#ccff00>I'll admit my exposure to this underbelly of the forums has been limited up to this point.   I'm aware its kind of hard for some people to put things in perspective and see how ridiculous they are sometimes (especially over a game) but I truly hope you'll go back and read some of your rant.   I have quite a bit of fun on these forums and I'm far from jaded by this game so save your tissue for the numerous cry babies running around here or yourself.   I'm also going to ask you to work on your sentence structure next time you try and argue.  I can still understand you but it really takes a few minutes.</FONT></P> <P>*Edit* 5 stars jeridor</P></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tenafly Viper on <SPAN class=date_text>02-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:47 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Tenafly Viper on <SPAN class=date_text>02-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:52 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Tenafly Vip]

<DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>"Ok I'll play.  You show me where it says you pay for this.  Your think you're the only rocket scientist who thought they knew what they were talking about?  Why do they make you log in?  Because they don't want just anybody clogging up these boards with whatever they want to.  Its really not that difficult of a concept.   Even once again using your flawed logic SOE still owns these forums just as much as they own your characters so they aren't here for your personal platform.   If you don't believe that you might need to do some reading before you embarass yourself any further.  And red faced?  Yeah lol I'm the one cursing, mispelling words, and making up insults like "cyberhardcases" because I'm so mad about it."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00><FONT color=#ffffff>You just made my point,</FONT><EM> "Because they don't want just anybody clogging up these boards with whatever they want to." </EM></FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>it's meant for paying customers ONLY... and is so and extention of your subscription. If you don't see it that way, fine, it's point less to continue. Like I said because you missed the point entirely, this is SOEs game and forum, it is in their best interest to control as much as possible what is being said about their product, that was the reason the SWGs forums became unviewable to non-subcribers, and that will be the reason this one does as well, to control negative PR. I'd never be embarassed by not taking everything at face value, I have the ability to think on my own, and I'm not seeking validation from anyone to be honest. Next up, do try and skirt the fact, by bringing up grammar or mispelling or whatever, it's a messageboard not a classroom.. and as for cursing I never cursed the word that was nerfed in my previous post was "socially r e t a r d e d" I wasn't aware that a common term was offensive, or obsene.... you liked cyberhardcase, I can't take credit for it though, use it where you will. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>I'll admit my exposure to this underbelly of the forums has been limited up to this point.   I'm aware its kind of hard for some people to put things in perspective and see how ridiculous they are sometimes (especially over a game) but I truly hope you'll go back and read some of your rant.   I have quite a bit of fun on these forums and I'm far from jaded by this game so save your tissue for the numerous cry babies running around here or yourself.   I'm also going to ask you to work on your sentence structure next time you try and argue.  I can still understand you but it really takes a few minutes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>We agree on something it is just a game. As for rants let them rant, responding is what some want. But know the differnce between  someone who is ranting and someone who is lamenting, you should at worst pitty those who can't enjoy the game any longer and afford them their 2cp as they exit, it's a true sign of character. </FONT></DIV>

[Tenafly Vip]

<DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>"Ok I'll play.  You show me where it says you pay for this.  Your think you're the only rocket scientist who thought they knew what they were talking about?  Why do they make you log in?  Because they don't want just anybody clogging up these boards with whatever they want to.  Its really not that difficult of a concept.   Even once again using your flawed logic SOE still owns these forums just as much as they own your characters so they aren't here for your personal platform.   If you don't believe that you might need to do some reading before you embarass yourself any further.  And red faced?  Yeah lol I'm the one cursing, mispelling words, and making up insults like "cyberhardcases" because I'm so mad about it."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00><FONT color=#ffffff>You just made my point,</FONT><EM> "Because they don't want just anybody clogging up these boards with whatever they want to." </EM></FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>it's meant for paying customers ONLY... and is so and extention of your subscription. If you don't see it that way, fine, it's point less to continue. Like I said because you missed the point entirely, this is SOEs game and forum, it is in their best interest to control as much as possible what is being said about their product, that was the reason the SWGs forums became unviewable to non-subcribers, and that will be the reason this one does as well, to control negative PR. I'd never be embarassed by not taking everything at face value, I have the ability to think on my own, and I'm not seeking validation from anyone to be honest. Next up, do try and skirt the fact, by bringing up grammar or mispelling or whatever, it's a messageboard not a classroom.. and as for cursing I never cursed the word that was nerfed in my previous post was "socially r e t a r d e d" I wasn't aware that a common term was offensive, or obsene.... you liked cyberhardcase, I can't take credit for it though, use it where you will. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>I'll admit my exposure to this underbelly of the forums has been limited up to this point.   I'm aware its kind of hard for some people to put things in perspective and see how ridiculous they are sometimes (especially over a game) but I truly hope you'll go back and read some of your rant.   I have quite a bit of fun on these forums and I'm far from jaded by this game so save your tissue for the numerous cry babies running around here or yourself.   I'm also going to ask you to work on your sentence structure next time you try and argue.  I can still understand you but it really takes a few minutes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>We agree on something it is just a game. As for rants let them rant, responding is what some want. But know the differnce between  someone who is ranting and someone who is lamenting, you should at worst pitty those who can't enjoy the game any longer and afford them their 2cp as they exit, it's a true sign of character. </FONT></DIV>

[thugrom]

<DIV>can i have all your stuff? lol</DIV>