Pardon me SOE, but what vendor can I sell my horse back for full value at? [Archive]

PPharo

02-11-2005, 02:40 PM

<DIV>no horses were not being used as a "Getaway method" I have been killed on my 9.8pp horse NUMEROUS times! The horse SLOWS down in combat!! Once you get aggro the horse slows down and does not move at 48!</DIV> <DIV>So all these people posting , oh you get out of combat have not had a horse that moves at 48!</DIV> <DIV>Actually the horse moves very slowly until your encounter is over.</DIV> <DIV>I am 50th level and I have to travel to zones 5 or 6 zones away 20 or 30 times daily! The reason I got a horse is not to avoid combat but to reduce travel times!</DIV> <DIV>The time it takes without a horse is unbearable to people that work 60-80 hours a week and get to log in a couple hours a night!</DIV> <DIV>I can buff people to a 37 or 38 speed, why in the heck would I pay 10pp for a horse that moves at 40?!</DIV> <DIV>I wouldnt....thats what people are upset about...</DIV> <DIV>And already the horses, especially the lower end ones look silly moving in slow motion.</DIV> <DIV>I showed a friend who was thinking of buying this game a movie of EQ2 which showed a horse running slow as molasses (BEFORE the nerf) and quite frankly they were completely turned off by the idea of a game where the box cover states "player mounts are available" and the horse is running slower than the guy in full plate with a tower shield!</DIV> <DIV>My friend said "these horses should be put out to pasture not sold for 3-10pp to the general populace!"</DIV> <DIV>So by nerfing the horses that people pay 3-10pp for you are not only losing customers you are losing potential customers as well.</DIV> <DIV>If the developers want to nerf horses that cost 15 sp (paladin and sk steeds) thats one thing....Pally's and Sk's can still save up for a better horse if they like<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>but do not nerf horses that people spend weeks if not months saving up for!</DIV> <DIV>I only hope the devs play their game and try obtaining 10pp the way we have to do it on a live server and get a horse and then find out "oh ya know what? my party member can buff me to the speed of horse np"</DIV> <DIV>Leave the horses people saved and paid for alone...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Please answer my petitions, fix the bugs and stop nerfing stuff that works"</DIV>

Iseabeil

02-11-2005, 02:46 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tataline wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Iseabeil wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Renrical wrote:<BR>just wondering, but shouldn't this be adressed before the game ran for months?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>if players do things that are not expected, how are they gonna be able to predict that? if the speed is downed to stop horses bein used to run from mobs, and that was never an intended part, then its obvious they will either have to change it, or ignore what they were created for at first place. granted, some stuff many would suspect, but this is a game created by humans, and humans will make mistakes and ooops'es.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Because people WERE doing it in beta. In fact, I think horse speed got nerfed once in beta already?<BR>Yes, this and may of these other global changes SHOULD have been addressed in beta. Many folks said the game wasn't ready but released anyway. Hell, the entire tradeskill system in its current form was introduced on the very last week of beta, how can they pretend to call that tested? heh<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>cant say i know what they did in beta, i never got close to a horse as i didnt play a pally/sk and i was too busy testing things to grind 30-40 lvls so i could buy one. infact, most ppl in beta never got close to the lvls ppl are at today during the 6 months i participated. </DIV> <DIV>Beta ppl =! liveplaying ppl. </DIV> <DIV>sad fact <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Hawkt

02-11-2005, 02:51 PM

Renrical

02-11-2005, 02:54 PM

<blockquote><hr>PPharoah wrote:<DIV>no horses were not being used as a "Getaway method" I have been killed on my 9.8pp horse NUMEROUS times! The horse SLOWS down in combat!! Once you get aggro the horse slows down and does not move at 48!</DIV><DIV>So all these people posting , oh you get out of combat have not had a horse that moves at 48!</DIV><DIV>Actually the horse moves very slowly until your encounter is over.</DIV><DIV>I am 50th level and I have to travel to zones 5 or 6 zones away 20 or 30 times daily! The reason I got a horse is not to avoid combat but to reduce travel times!</DIV><DIV>The time it takes without a horse is unbearable to people that work 60-80 hours a week and get to log in a couple hours a night!</DIV><DIV>I can buff people to a 37 or 38 speed, why in the heck would I pay 10pp for a horse that moves at 40?!</DIV><DIV>I wouldnt....thats what people are upset about...</DIV>couldn't have said better. *clap*

Kyriel

02-11-2005, 03:14 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hawktel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Great, I'm going to get my 14 silver back.<BR> <HR> </P> <P> </P> <P>LOL!</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Kyriel

02-11-2005, 03:37 PM

<DIV>But are we going to get a FULL refund, or lose 50gold?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>liek, buy a 3pp horse,</DIV> <DIV>then he buys it back for 2pp 50gold </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It better be full refund :smileymad:</DIV>

Miral

02-11-2005, 03:40 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>There is no such vendor currently on the live servers because horses haven't been changed yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You will indeed be able to get your cash back for your mount if you choose to do so. Stable hands will be added in the cities for exactly this purpose.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>ok so when do berzerkers and scouts get teh chance to turn into a different class?</P> <HR> <P>Quote:</P> <P>I was nerfed cause of the fools on this board. </P> <HR> <P>Incorrect. you were FIXED because people of your class were abusing the priviledge you were given above other players.</P><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:43 AM</span>

02-11-2005, 04:07 PM

PPharoah wrote:I am 50th level and I have to travel to zones 5 or 6 zones away 20 or 30 times daily! The time it takes without a horse is unbearable to people that work 60-80 hours a week and get to log in a couple hours a night!-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------So EQ2 is your job??? lolAnd please do take a course in proper punctuation.Have a nice day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Aia on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:08 AM</span><p>Message Edited by Aia on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:09 AM</span>

Stigmatacus

02-11-2005, 05:40 PM

<DIV>I don't want to sell my horse back, I enjoy riding it. I'm [Removed for Content] because I have worked my tail off for months saving every copper I could for the 10 plat horse and now it is being downgraded. SOE, why do you cater to the jealous whiners and punish people who work hard to earn something that makes the game more enjoyable? Please DO NOT PUSH THE HORSE SPEED DEBUFFS TO THE LIVE SERVERS!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Blutzo

02-11-2005, 05:40 PM

and at 50 you can easily afford the silver to use the boats

Phear6

02-11-2005, 06:07 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>There is no such vendor currently on the live servers because horses haven't been changed yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You will indeed be able to get your cash back for your mount if you choose to do so. Stable hands will be added in the cities for exactly this purpose.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thank you so much for that. I bought the 9plat horse which looks exactly like the Pally horse.</P> <P>Kinda sucked when i found that out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P><BR></P>

Jenlaana

02-11-2005, 06:22 PM

<DIV>Actually to the person who was "too busy fixing bugs in beta to buy a horse" they were like 15 gold in beta heh. </DIV>

bluesky

02-11-2005, 06:37 PM

<DIV>i wonder if u will get status pts back if u brought ur horse using status or u get money back~</DIV>

spa

02-11-2005, 06:41 PM

<DIV>I cant believe the speed of horses are being reduced. I thought horses were slow enough, but now they are getting slowed down even more?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And the undead horse, 50 plat!? Who the hell makes these decisions? lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im starting to lose interest in this game :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV>I really really wanted this game to be awesome and play it for several years..</DIV>

QDOG5

02-11-2005, 06:55 PM

<DIV> <DIV>I also thought SOE was looking for ways for people to spend their coin in this game. Now it appears that people now are going to sell their mounts back, causing the exact opposite. I'm not against it, but by them allowing people to sell their horse back at full price (or any price for that matter) clearly indicates that SOE thinks they will please everyone. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did they give an actual reason to why they are going to do this? It doesn't affect me or the game in any way. They need to spend their efforts in fixing what's not working. That should be their priority. </DIV></DIV>

Wamben

02-11-2005, 06:57 PM

Now that I think about it, does anybody have the speed on a flying carpet? Has anybody SEEN a player with a carpet and not just the one in the mage tower?

slubins

02-11-2005, 07:21 PM

<DIV>It was posted that running away from the mob is EXACTLY the reason why horses are being nerfed. You guys have to be kidding...just about anyone can sprint away, run with sow away or evac away...you aren't balancing diddly by nerfing horses...if you run, you dont get xp, loot or whatever. That is the deal. Dying is not the overwhelming concern here..but of course that will be most likely nerfed too in the future..I'm sure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As an aside, I am glad that the devs (moorgard) posts on these posts. Yet, more I think about it, that shouldn't be a special blessing they do this, but an aboslute requirement since it is thier product...I am most concerned by this "changing of the mind" (so it's not a lie) issue. There may be some fundamental structural problems in the game for future expansions that need addressing, but taking a cautious slow approach is better. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, why not make these changes and make the silly L20 fluff stuff worth something...familiars that help regain power, buffs, heck even a horse for pallys/sk's:smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we can indeed sell our horses back than I will be first in line. One poster said something that 40% is better than 0%. They just don't get it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why are things jumping from test to live so fast? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Razorlo

02-11-2005, 07:23 PM

<DIV>Why dont they make it so that you cant attack while on a horse. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You wanna engage a mob DISMOUNT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Instead of nerfs..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Horses should be a speed buff when NOT IN COMBAT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when in combat all speed buffs should be gone including a horse</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

StueyMonst

02-11-2005, 07:35 PM

<DIV>Having to dismount and not being able to mount while in combat is also an option, heck...I can cast every other spell apart from Invisibility, while in combat mode (to aid escape).</DIV> <P>Why not impliment the SWG method of having a timer on mounts "You speeder-bike/horse can be called in X seconds"</P><p>Message Edited by StueyMonster on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:42 AM</span>

WarklaW

02-11-2005, 07:55 PM

<DIV>So SOE, will you buy back all the hours I invested to become shadowknight to get my <U>Unholy Steed</U> now that it is worthless. I certainly didn't become a <U>Shadowknight</U> for their "powerful" abilities! Allow me to become a level 26 Wizard now that you are making them all powerful. Or maybe you should FIX the Shadowknight class instead of nerfing us YET AGAIN!? Your killing us...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Eadric

02-11-2005, 08:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WarklaW wrote:<BR> <DIV>So SOE, will you buy back all the hours I invested to become shadowknight to get my Unholy Steed now that it is worthless. I certainly didn't become a Shadowknight for their "powerful" abilities! Allow me to become a level 26 Wizard now that you are making them all powerful. Or maybe you should FIX the Shadowknight class instead of nerfing us YET AGAIN!? Your killing us...<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN>I hope you understand that the fact that you chose to play a shadowknight based on the 20th-level fluff spell is indicative of why they are nerfing it.</SPAN></P>

WarklaW

02-11-2005, 08:16 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eadric wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WarklaW wrote:<BR> <DIV>So SOE, will you buy back all the hours I invested to become shadowknight to get my Unholy Steed now that it is worthless. I certainly didn't become a Shadowknight for their "powerful" abilities! Allow me to become a level 26 Wizard now that you are making them all powerful. Or maybe you should FIX the Shadowknight class instead of nerfing us YET AGAIN!? Your killing us...<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN>I hope you understand that the fact that you chose to play a shadowknight based on the 20th-level fluff spell is indicative of why they are nerfing it.</SPAN></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> No, originally I chose the Shadowknight class because I thought they were a balance of power verses might. A mix of a fighter class with a mage class. I thought I was getting the best of both worlds. Granted, I knew they would not be as powerful as a full mage class or as strong as a full fighter class, but they don't they're not even HALF as strong or powerful! I became more and more disenchanted with this seriously underpowered class. And then the ultimate slap was when they started nerfing our abilities. I already had enough trouble leveling as it is. So, yeah, the horse is a "fluff" spell, but compared to any other class, it's our ONLY advantage of being this class NOW. So of course NOW, I want to trade up with another class. ANY class other than a SK/Pally because it's no fun anymore. But you won't undersatnd unless you were in my shoes. All you know is "they got a usefull fun spell". Well you probably have useful REAL spells. I don't.

Waivr

02-11-2005, 08:30 PM

<DIV> <DIV>Let's forget about the physical attributes of the spell for a second and recognize that it is simply a speed buff. The real issue here is that Crusaders got something for free that no other class had access to without spending significant coin. Yes, that's unfair and I figured we would be nerfed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, since it is entirely possible to know the benefits of a class before you select a class, no one complains about Shaman's or Druid's SoW at level 13. The better solution to this entire situation is to give Crusaders a summon spell at 13 for the horse and make the speed equivalent to SoW with all the same properties. It could even cost a concentration point if that would appease the jealous masses. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is fair. The current fix is not. If the Devs had never said...oh, we know the horse is faster than intended but it's not that big a deal, then maybe this heavy-handed fix would be more tolerable. There is a middle ground that the devs have not explored.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

Lawman

02-11-2005, 08:35 PM

<DIV>Granted, Nerfing the horses doesnt make any sense to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"But but but you can ride away from bad guys!"</DIV> <DIV>No, we cant. Ive died on my horse quite a number of times. I finally woke up and realized that I should be SPRINTING away from mobs, not riding away from them. Guess what? It worked. And Everyone can Sprint.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Everyone elses 20 Class Spell was a fluff spell except for PAL/SK"</DIV> <DIV>So? Go ask for something for your class and quit calling for ours to be nerfed. As you can see, they listen to calls for nerfs. Thanks a ton...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People.... this isnt a big deal... in EQ1 Paladins got the fastest horse in the game... go call for them to be nerfed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides, I really couldnt give much of a hoot about the horse, really... what concerns me is the fact that theyre nerfing our damage and increasing the mages damage at the same time. Our hold on Aggro is tenuous at best. I really really really really hope this didnt just kill the little aggro control we have now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And realize.... none of this is live yet... all we are doing is speculating at this point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I think they nerfed the horses to draw attention away from the damage/aggro issue... and it worked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> -Law</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

WarklaW

02-11-2005, 08:40 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lawman wrote:<BR> <DIV>Granted, Nerfing the horses doesnt make any sense to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"But but but you can ride away from bad guys!"</DIV> <DIV>No, we cant. Ive died on my horse quite a number of times. I finally woke up and realized that I should be SPRINTING away from mobs, not riding away from them. Guess what? It worked. And Everyone can Sprint.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Everyone elses 20 Class Spell was a fluff spell except for PAL/SK"</DIV> <DIV>So? Go ask for something for your class and quit calling for ours to be nerfed. As you can see, they listen to calls for nerfs. Thanks a ton...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People.... this isnt a big deal... in EQ1 Paladins got the fastest horse in the game... go call for them to be nerfed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides, I really couldnt give much of a hoot about the horse, really... what concerns me is the fact that theyre nerfing our damage and increasing the mages damage at the same time. Our hold on Aggro is tenuous at best. I really really really really hope this didnt just kill the little aggro control we have now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And realize.... none of this is live yet... all we are doing is speculating at this point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I think they nerfed the horses to draw attention away from the damage/aggro issue... and it worked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> -Law</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>AMEN brother.<BR>

aethertong

02-11-2005, 08:41 PM

As someone who recently purchased a mount after scrimping and saving for many, many weeks, I'm not very happy about this change, but that isn't what this topic is about, so I'll try to avoid going into a rant.I'd like to know what kind of a return we will be getting on our investment. Will it be 100% or partial?I would still prefer you didn't make this change as I find the reasoning behind it doesn't make sense given the ease of escaping from combat even on foot, but thanks for at least thinking to give mount owners this option as it was not an easy thing to save up that much money, so you can understand why so many people are upset.

Nuvi

02-11-2005, 08:43 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>There is no such vendor currently on the live servers because horses haven't been changed yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You will indeed be able to get your cash back for your mount if you choose to do so. Stable hands will be added in the cities for exactly this purpose.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>will this change only be a temp 1?that will only effect those who are angry now?or is that how it will be from the time the patch goes live?i jump alot betwen characters,cant decide on a main character 2 play,so basicly i would be able to buy a 9.8plat horse for example and sell it when i get bored with my current character and buy a new 1 for my new character?im just curious if this change will only last a few weeks/months and then be removed?thanks.</P> <P> </P>

Bunglem

02-11-2005, 08:45 PM

<DIV>Please SOE, don't push this to the live servers... there's no reason to nerf horses. I grinded for weeks just to buy my horse, and now you're taking its speed... it took me at least a week more to be able to afford the tier 2 horse over the tier 1 horse because I wanted the extra speed. Now you're taking that away for no reason I can see. What if I grinded for a month and got 20 levels, then SOE said, "Sorry you weren't supposed to be gaining exp that fast. We're going to take 4 of your levels back." Kinda makes it useless doesn't it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure we can sell horses back apparently, but probably not at full cost. Plus now if I want an equivalent horse I have to grind for another month at least. That's ridiculous... the only way to make this change justified is to allow us to sprint while on horseback and have that stack with the horse speed buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hate to say this, but I'm losing interest in the game now. I play EQ2 because I have stuff I want to accomplish and places I want to see. My main goal in this game was to get a horse and a bigger apartment (may be stupid, but it's true), and now you've nerfed one of those. I worked hard for these in game, just like people work to hit level 50 and see Nagafen, Vox, Venekor, etc. Please consider how negatively this affects some of your playerbase before putting this through... you won't be accomplishing anything by doing it, only messing with those who've made the accomplishment of getting a horse.</DIV>

Napolle

02-11-2005, 09:21 PM

wow glad yall are atleast adding sumthing for the horses to be sold back... now what about rerolling or getting our money back from lvling up the njow useless tradeskills?

legaeveth

02-11-2005, 09:53 PM

<DIV>No worries horses your own boats are coming this year with the release of Vanguard. Check it out no zoning world you can build outposts up to cities manipulate the environment, NPC raids on towns. Much much more as well so if your not happy here there are developers out there who will provide a game to your liking. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

02-11-2005, 09:57 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kylania wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerafin wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blutzoll wrote:<BR>why sell a horse back because it's now 40% speed instead of 48% for example?<BR><BR>do you really like to walk instead to ride on a 40% horse? ridiculous...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>That's an easy one. A horse that runs at sprint speed is worth 3.7pp. A horse which no longer runs at sprint speed is not, as you can <B>just hit sprint while on foot if you get into trouble</B>.<BR><BR>The 9.8pp horses will still be relatively worthwhile.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>That is EXACTLY why horses are being nerfed, thanks for pointing it out. Horses weren't being used as a travel method, but were being used as a "get away without sprinting" method by players. That was never intended.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Thank you mr dev. oh wait.........youre NOT a dev, and as such cant say what was intended and what wasnt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry, but im so [FaarNerfed!] tired of people telling me what me horse was or wasnt intended to do (everybody but the devs it seems)<BR></DIV>

Shagittari

02-11-2005, 10:03 PM

<DIV>Who are these people complaining that they grinded for 2 weeks to afford a horse or that they bought 3 10plat horses etc...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you guys can get enough money together in 2 weeks to buy a horse then I now understand why they are incresing the costs associated with crafting. I want you crafters to know that it took me 2 and a half months as an adventurer, level 45 to grind out enough cash to afford the basic 2.5 plat horse and not totally [Removed for Content] myself by not buying spell upgrades.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And guess what? I've got a second account that is logged in and selling whenever I am on. So If as an adventurer I could only make 4.5 plat in 3 months then the crafting cost increase is well deserved. I cant beleieve people complain about spending 2 weeks to get enough money together to get a horse. When i purchased the horse I spent 2.5 months of work to get it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Shagittarius on <SPAN class=date_text>02-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:03 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Shagittarius on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:24 AM</span>

Eledri

02-11-2005, 10:33 PM

<DIV>Please do not nerf the horses. :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As many have posted above, and as I've myself observed in game (I don't own a horse, my girlfirend's 9-year old boy does, he has the Paladin's Holy Steed spell) a horse does not allow one to sprint away from an encounter. If anything, being mounted makes it *harder* to escape from a fight gone bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ2 is a wonderful world to adventure and craft in. However it's starting to feel too unpredictable to enjoy and feel comfortable within. Changes and nerfs are coming too fast, too close together, and some, such as this horse nerfing, do not seem well thought out. It wasn't so long ago that Moorgard wrote that the Pally's Holy Steed would *not* be nerfed because the Devs did not want to take away a class' little pleasure just for the sake of placating the whines of envious players from other classes. What happened to that promise? If statements such as that can just be tossed out a month or two later, with nothing but a poor rationale for doing so, then indeed it's very disheartening for the players.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please do not nerf the horses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Many players spent countless hours saving up for their mounts, now they have to go sell them back? My girlfriend's son is all heartbroken over this news - he picked Paladin because he wanted so much to own a horse, and knew that he wouldn't be able to get all the plats to buy a real one. Now he's all dejected, and is thinking of leaving the game to go back to his PS2 console.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't nerf the horses - the reasons you've given us for doing so just don't hold much sense at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for reading, and considering.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Shagittari

02-11-2005, 10:54 PM

<DIV>Dude they are not taking away the horse. He will still have a horse, I'm sure he didnt want the horse beacuse we wanted a run speed buff. I know at 9 I'd like to look cool more than run fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of these posts are only a step away from, 'Children in Somalia will starve if you nerf the run speed of our Pally fluff spell, please don't kill the children'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Shagittarius on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:56 AM</span>

Zartim

02-11-2005, 11:06 PM

<DIV>Yes!! Think of the Children!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it's stupid that players can sprint faster than horses. No need to nerf them. I'd like to own one some day, but why buy them if they are semi-useless? </DIV>

Fli

02-11-2005, 11:33 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> spark wrote: <DIV>Im starting to lose interest in this game :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV>I really really wanted this game to be awesome and play it for several years..</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If the nerf of a horse by 8% (not counting knight horses) causes you to worry about the fun of the game, and is causing you to feel like quitting, than MMOs in general are not for you, and you should find something else. </DIV>

Gaige

02-11-2005, 11:38 PM

<DIV>I can't believe the whiners on this forum, its great!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It went from:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) OMG YOU ARE NERFING HORSES LET US SELL THEM BACK!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) OMG WE CAN SELL THEM BACK BUT PROBABLY NOT AT FULL COST!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is next. You guys assume all sorts of bs and then get all [Removed for Content] and rant and rant and rant and then find out you are wrong and immediately you jump to the next thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone who doesn't think the SK/Pally horse was going to get nerfed is ignorant. Look at the numerous 10 page long posts about it. Some people complained about it more than they played AND its the only fluff spell that's useful. Personally I didn't care one way or the other but you should've seen it coming.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for nerfing horses run speed, who cares? They are all being adjusted and they are all still a run speed boost. Having a horse will always be faster than not having one. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Geez.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also liked the requests by people for being able to reroll their adventure and artisan classes, what's next free lvl 50 to anyone who whines and complains.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys act like kids.</DIV>

Bunglem

02-11-2005, 11:47 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Gage-Mikel wrote:</P> <DIV>Having a horse will always be faster than not having one. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Unless you're sprinting that is... God forbid we should actually get something useful for spending multiple plat. And if you don't think it's a big deal, here's a proposal... after the patch to live, you give me 6pp to upgrade my horse to what it was pre-nerf.</DIV>

Gaige

02-11-2005, 11:55 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bungleman wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Gage-Mikel wrote:</P> <DIV>Having a horse will always be faster than not having one. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Unless you're sprinting that is... God forbid we should actually get something useful for spending multiple plat. And if you don't think it's a big deal, here's a proposal... after the patch to live, you give me 6pp to upgrade my horse to what it was pre-nerf.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sprinting lasts how long? Horses run that fast forever.</P> <P>Get your own 6pp, I've had way over 10pp and I didn't spend it on a horse, and I get everywhere fine.</P> <P>That was your choice to buy it.</P> <P>Did a window pop up and say:</P> <P>"Contract: You are purchasing a horse for x.xx platinum. This horse runs ___% faster than normal running. This will never be changed and you are entitled to whine and cry like a baby if it is".</P> <P>No.</P> <P>In fact before you log in you agree to the terms and service which dictates the game is always changing, nothing is guaranteed and you agree to that when you play.</P> <P>You don't even own your toon or that horse, SoE does. You own the account.</P> <P>Just quit whining, its getting old already.</P> <P>My class got nerfed last patch and you know what I did? I posted constructively and urged the community to do the same, we posted and discussed various logs and you know what? Moorgard noticed it, discussed it and we are getting a change in this patch.</P> <P>In the end though:</P> <P>Sprint = only while you have power</P> <P>Horse = always same speed</P> <P>I swear, people's incessant whines and views of entitlement are sickening.<BR></P>

Stigmatacus

02-12-2005, 12:38 AM

<DIV>Gage- Mikel, S T F U </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you didn't spend your hard earned copper on a horse and you are not affected by this. We indeed purchased an item that we knew had a defined speed enhancement, now it is being reduced. How many people would have shelled out the 10 plat for a horse if they knew would be later reduced to sprint speed? A much much smaller number of folks I guarantee it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>before you go on attacking people who worked hard to earn the money for a horse stop and think about why we are mad. How about I come over to your house and put a go-kart engine in your car and see how you like it?</DIV>

Tomodac

02-12-2005, 12:56 AM

<blockquote><hr>Gage-Mikel wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Bungleman wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><P><HR><P></P><P>Gage-Mikel wrote:</P><DIV>Having a horse will always be faster than not having one. </DIV><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV>Unless you're sprinting that is... God forbid we should actually get something useful for spending multiple plat. And if you don't think it's a big deal, here's a proposal... after the patch to live, you give me 6pp to upgrade my horse to what it was pre-nerf.</DIV><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sprinting lasts how long? Horses run that fast forever.</P><P>Get your own 6pp, I've had way over 10pp and I didn't spend it on a horse, and I get everywhere fine.</P><P>That was your choice to buy it.</P><P>Did a window pop up and say:</P><P>"Contract: You are purchasing a horse for x.xx platinum. This horse runs ___% faster than normal running. This will never be changed and you are entitled to whine and cry like a baby if it is".</P><P>No.</P><P>In fact before you log in you agree to the terms and service which dictates the game is always changing, nothing is guaranteed and you agree to that when you play.</P><P>You don't even own your toon or that horse, SoE does. You own the account.</P><P>Just quit whining, its getting old already.</P><P>My class got nerfed last patch and you know what I did? I posted constructively and urged the community to do the same, we posted and discussed various logs and you know what? Moorgard noticed it, discussed it and we are getting a change in this patch.</P><P>In the end though:</P><P>Sprint = only while you have power</P><P>Horse = always same speed</P><P>I swear, people's incessant whines and views of entitlement are sickening.</P><hr></blockquote>How much *time* is involved in saving up 3-4pp?For some people it's significant.Some people invested that time into buying an in-game item with a given speed benefit. Now the established benefit under which they purchased that horse is being changed. It's not a matter of losing a plat or two, it's a matter of having SoE devalue a time investment retroactively.You do the same thing working in the real world... you put time in, you earn money. You spend that money on items: a hamburger, a car, whatever. The investment is the same: time. You don't see Ford sneaking into your driveway at night to replace your newly purchased Mustang with a Volvo V50. It wouldn't be tolerated.Are they the same? One example is from the real world, and one is from a video game... I'd argue that they are. Whether by plat or the American dollar, your invesment is in time. Changes such as this add up, and eventually virtual suicide will ensue as people stop playing. I've seen it happen already, and I haven't seen much from SoE to suggest they're going to stem the flow of people much.--Your call to stop whining is admirably blue-collared... but not very wise.Anything less than a full-refund of the horse would be on par with stealing in my mind.Edit: Typo<p>Message Edited by Tomodachi on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:06 PM</span>

Bleusong

02-12-2005, 01:09 AM

i don't own a horse..and if this goes live i definitely won't own a horse..and this reduction in horse speed is absolutely pointless and does not solve one thing..a. i don't believe you can just out run agro on horse even for a second<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />..i've seen enough folks die on horse to know that..though soe does seem determined more needs to die..b. so..they worked really really really hard..to get a multi-plat horse..majority did i'm sure<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />..what does this reduced run speed...solve?..few people get away from agro..how does it affect others?..worse case scenario, hopefully they can revive..or have a feather..come back and get everyone back on track<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i don't think anyone wants to sell back their horse..they are being forced to..since riding a horse will hardly be a valid option anymore<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> maybe put lvl restrition on horses?<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> would make more sense<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />sorry<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> there is absolutely no reason to lower speed on merchant bought horses<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nuvi

02-12-2005, 01:36 AM

<DIV>i agree its significent but as said you will be able to sell back your horse if you want to.</DIV> <DIV>and the 10plat horse is still a great buy imo.</DIV>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 01:47 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stigmatacus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Gage- Mikel, S T F U </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you didn't spend your hard earned copper on a horse and you are not affected by this. <FONT color=#ffff00>We indeed purchased an item that we knew had a defined speed enhancement, now it is being reduced. How many people would have shelled out the 10 plat for a horse if they knew would be later reduced to sprint speed? A much much smaller number of folks I guarantee it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>before you go on attacking people <FONT color=#ffff00>who worked hard </FONT>to earn the money for a horse stop and think about why we are mad. How about I come over to your house and put a go-kart engine in your car and see how you like it?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Good, so that number of people can take their whistle to the vendor being patched in and sell their horses back, and run around slower than the horse they just sold.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way don't tell me to [FaarNerfed!] its rude. Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't give you the right to talk to me in those tones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for "working hard" to earn "money". Its a game. Money is only worth the stuff you want. Apparantly you wanted a horse.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, this change is NOTHING like the real world, or this stupid car example everyone keeps using:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) You own the car. Its your car, they can't change it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Its explicitly stated in the ToS that SoE owns the in game items, not the account holder. Therefore the horse isn't yours, its SoE's to do with what they want. Hell they don't owe you a refund, its a courtesy, and yet still the whining. If they patched tomorrow and removed them from game they don't owe you anything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WHERE does everyone's views of entitlement in this game come from, jeez.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 PM</span>

Bunglem

02-12-2005, 02:04 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WHERE does everyone's views of entitlement in this game come from, jeez.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <SPAN class=date_text>02-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:50 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Oh I dunno... maybe the fact that I paid $90 + %14.99 for the past 3 months to play it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In theory they could ban my account, delete my character, take my stuff, or shut down every server tomorrow. But there's one thing I'm entitled to do, and that's express my opinion... which I'm doing. I'm unhappy about this because I spent literally countless hours reaching a goal (one of the main ones) I had in this game, and it's been significantly reduced imo. You've stated that it's insignificant to you, and I say that it's very important to me... we're just expressing differing opinions.</DIV>

Dankster

02-12-2005, 02:14 AM

<DIV>To the imaginary entity at SoE,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Speed up mobs, leave horses alone. Many of us were using horses mostly to get from point A to B. I don't like the fact that you are extending my travel time, when already I think we move like snails with or without a horse.</DIV>

Collitini

02-12-2005, 02:24 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Damitri wrote:<BR> <DIV> Just wondering becuase there NEEDS to be one. I mean [Removed for Content]? If you guys saved up some money and bought a Jaguar, then next week someone put a dang Neon engine in it.....You'd raise hell to right? Oh coarse you would, and you'd DEMAND a full refund...well guess what? Thats what us hard playing citizens of Norath are gonna do!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Now hold on just a cotton picken minute, you!!!! I can't believe the audacity you displayed in the above post...really!</P> <P>Neons rock, man! Now, putting a neon engine into a jag...maybe not a good idea...but pound for pound Neon's are fast little suckers. I loved mine. Got a buddy who races them and swears by them.</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P>

Tomodac

02-12-2005, 02:42 AM

<blockquote><hr>Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Stigmatacus wrote:<BR><DIV>Gage- Mikel, S T F U </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>you didn't spend your hard earned copper on a horse and you are not affected by this. <FONT color=#ffff00>We indeed purchased an item that we knew had a defined speed enhancement, now it is being reduced. How many people would have shelled out the 10 plat for a horse if they knew would be later reduced to sprint speed? A much much smaller number of folks I guarantee it.</FONT></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>before you go on attacking people <FONT color=#ffff00>who worked hard </FONT>to earn the money for a horse stop and think about why we are mad. How about I come over to your house and put a go-kart engine in your car and see how you like it?</DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV>Good, so that number of people can take their whistle to the vendor being patched in and sell their horses back, and run around slower than the horse they just sold.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>By the way don't tell me to [FaarNerfed!] its rude. Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't give you the right to talk to me in those tones.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>As for "working hard" to earn "money". Its a game. Money is only worth the stuff you want. Apparantly you wanted a horse.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Also, this change is NOTHING like the real world, or this stupid car example everyone keeps using:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>1) You own the car. Its your car, they can't change it. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>2) Its explicitly stated in the ToS that SoE owns the in game items, not the account holder. Therefore the horse isn't yours, its SoE's to do with what they want. Hell they don't owe you a refund, its a courtesy, and yet still the whining. If they patched tomorrow and removed them from game they don't owe you anything.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>WHERE does everyone's views of entitlement in this game come from, jeez.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Please see my previous response to your post if you're wondering where this notion of entitlement comes from.

Joeble

02-12-2005, 02:45 AM

<DIV>You know, I just really wish that the people who are constantly threatening to leave the game over this or that change would just leave the game already. Unsubscribe. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whine and complain all you want here, but at least go through with what you are threatening. And take your 20 friends with you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Joeble</DIV>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 02:47 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bungleman wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WHERE does everyone's views of entitlement in this game come from, jeez.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <SPAN class=date_text>02-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:50 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Oh I dunno... maybe the fact that I paid $90 + %14.99 for the past 3 months to play it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In theory they could ban my account, delete my character, take my stuff, or shut down every server tomorrow. But there's one thing I'm entitled to do, and that's express my opinion... which I'm doing. I'm unhappy about this because I spent literally countless hours reaching a goal (one of the main ones) I had in this game, and it's been significantly reduced imo. You've stated that it's insignificant to you, and I say that it's very important to me... we're just expressing differing opinions.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So do I, so does everyone. I hate the armor changes. My lvl 50 monk now looks like a lvl 20. I invested tons of time getting him an armor "look" that I like. They ruined it with the armor patch. </P> <P>There is nothing I can do about it but post my displeasure for the current armor graphic, which I have done. </FONT></P> <P>But I do not post threads like this saying I'm entitled for something because I pay to play the game, I understand they can and will make changes, a lot of which I probably won't like.</FONT><BR></P>

BloodSmo

02-12-2005, 03:04 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Collitinius wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Damitri wrote:<BR> <DIV> Just wondering becuase there NEEDS to be one. I mean [Removed for Content]? If you guys saved up some money and bought a Jaguar, then next week someone put a dang Neon engine in it.....You'd raise hell to right? Oh coarse you would, and you'd DEMAND a full refund...well guess what? Thats what us hard playing citizens of Norath are gonna do!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Now hold on just a cotton picken minute, you!!!! I can't believe the audacity you displayed in the above post...really!</P> <P>Neons rock, man! Now, putting a neon engine into a jag...maybe not a good idea...but pound for pound Neon's are fast little suckers. I loved mine. Got a buddy who races them and swears by them.</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>What is the point of this post?</P> <P>Imo cursader horses are fine, maybe they are the only fun spells that arnt broken. Maybe every class should get a spell that doesnt suck. As an Inqus i make people cringe who are lower lvl than me in my group......wow what fun.......</P> <P>Other horses, whats the point of nerfing them? I have a 9pp horse and decreasing it by 8% to 40% may not seem like alot, but why then would i spend 50pp on a crapet that goes only 48% seems pointless. </P> <P>Instead of nerfing usless crap why not fix all the bugs? SK are so bugged its funny, their 25 taunt is bugged, the damage output is laughable. Inquis get crap heals compared to other classes. Why would a warrior have more power than an inquisitor and have 3 times as much HP? How if Tanks have hard time holding aggro with all the broken spells would you make wizards do 300% more damage to get more aggro? Why do Inquis Debuffs not make a difference? Why do bards get a reserect? Why do bards get to use ranged weapons and SKs and Pallys dont? It seems that the only class that has their own spells in the bard with all their songs. I'm not even going to get into tradeskills but your whole system is going to suck once you make this patch go live. Why do you screw over the people who play your game the most? Why do the "Good" healing classes get better heals then the "Evil" ones. Why do you continuously not fix game breaking bugs and continuously nerf?</P> <P>In closing, Why do you always have a grand "Vision" for your game and when the game isnt going in that direction you nerf the hell out of it, when Vanguard comes out next year i cant wait to see its vision....</P> <P> </P>

Lairdragna

02-12-2005, 03:05 AM

<DIV>Gage, your post... well all your posts... are irrelevant. The way your armor looks has nothing to do with its function. It could be plaid and it would still provide the same value to you in combat. The issue is the horse's ability to do what it was purchased for, which is to move between point A and B at X speed. You caould take the gorgeous white 10p horse and make it purple with pink polka dots and I'd still ride it if it did what it was intended to do. Would I be happy with the way it looked? No, but it WOULD perform its job. Your equating appearance to function and that dog don't hunt.</DIV>

Bunglem

02-12-2005, 03:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote: <P>But I do not post threads like this saying I'm entitled for something because I pay to play the game, I understand they can and will make changes, a lot of which I probably won't like.</FONT> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Mmm... reading comprehension. Gotta love it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never said I was entitled to anything. I was saying that I paid quite a bit of money for this game, and, as someone who is not a masochist, I don't expect to have the things that I spent a ton of time on (and yes, indirectly paid for) significantly reduced in quality for no reason. Thanks.</DIV>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 03:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That was my response to your feeling of entitlement because you pay to play the game and you paid x amount of plat for a horse, and now you feel "ripped off".</P> <P>In fact my arguement is very relevant.</P> <P>Sure armor serves a purpose for combat, but it also serves the purpose of how your toon looks. Some people care about that a lot, some don't. Some care about running faster with a horse, some don't.</P> <P>The point of the matter is that I paid a lot of gold for armor because it all matched. I liked how it looked. Does everyone do that? No. Does everyone buy a 10pp horse because its fast? No. Believe it or not some people buy it for the prestige and the status. The "wow" factor. OMG THAT GUY HAS A 10PP horse.</P> <P>Your opinion is that because my disparity is with cosmetics, its less substantial. You feel that looks don't matter, you'd ride a bright pink horse with yellow stripes. Fine.</P> <P>But the point and the rational still stand.</P> <P>Did you invest time to make money to get a horse you wanted so you could accomplish something in this game? Yes. Did they change it? Yes.</P> <P>Did I invest time to make money to get armor that I wanted so I could accomplish something in this game? Yes. Did they change it? Yes.</P> <P>They are the same. Whether or not you feel so because one is cosmetic and one is mechanics, it still is. Opinion doesn't change fact.</P> <P>So you need to decide what arguement you want to have.</P> <P>1) I pay x.xx money to play, I'm entitled to ____. (So do I).</P> <P>2) I paid x.xx platinum for a horse that used to run this fast, and now it doesn't! OMG that's false advertising. OMG OMG OMG!</P> <P>I've already explained to you that you are promised nothing. You paid 10pp for a horse than ran 48% faster than normal. Up until this patch goes live you've gotten that. You weren't misled. You were never told it wasn't going to change.</P> <P>You pay for cable tv. Maybe your plan includes HBO at no cost. Maybe its been like that for 10 years. Maybe you've invested tons of money in your cable bill over the years and you've grown to love the Sopranos. Maybe tomorrow HBO will cost you more a month if you want to continue to have it. You'd be SOL,it isn't your call, its the cable companies. You can either pay more or quit watching the Sopranos. In the game you can either live with a slower horse or sell it back, or sell it back and save up more for the faster horse.</P> <P>You are whining just because something was changed you don't like.</P> <P>My agility was nerfed, my class role was hard to fill, etc etc. Those are all mechanics. Yet still I find a way to be constructive. I suggest you do the same.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:21 PM</span>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 03:22 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bungleman wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote: <P>But I do not post threads like this saying I'm entitled for something because I pay to play the game, I understand they can and will make changes, a lot of which I probably won't like.</FONT> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Mmm... reading comprehension. Gotta love it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never said I was entitled to anything. I was saying that I paid quite a bit of money for this game, and, as someone who is not a masochist, <FONT color=#ffff00>I don't expect</FONT> to have the things that I spent a ton of time on (and yes, indirectly paid for) significantly reduced in quality for no reason. Thanks.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well you need to change your expectations, as you are playing a game that fluctuates at all times.</P> <P>They've already stated why the run speeds were reduced, read the thread.<BR></P>

Bunglem

02-12-2005, 03:34 AM

<DIV>Fine, fine... whatever. The majority of the people here think that the nerf is uncalled for and needs to be fixed. And so do I. Maybe they'll do a 20% reduction of the stats on your armor sometime and you'll understand. Until then, there's no need in arguing because this doesn't affect you. Sorry for arguing with you in the first place.</DIV>

Dread Invict

02-12-2005, 03:47 AM

<DIV> <P>Can I sell back my Shadow Knight? Having a horse was actually what make being an SK survivable while soloing. Now I get a 10% speed adition. At lease make it the same as the lowest level horse. Because after my power gets drained faster than any other tank and my life taps heal me insufficiently compared to paladins heals I doubt I will have enough power to run very far.</P></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 03:56 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bungleman wrote:<BR> <DIV>Fine, fine... whatever. The majority of the people here think that the nerf is uncalled for and needs to be fixed. And so do I. <FONT color=#ffff00>Maybe they'll do a 20% reduction of the stats on your armor sometime and you'll understand</FONT>. Until then, there's no need in arguing because this doesn't affect you. Sorry for arguing with you in the first place.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm a lvl 50 monk.</P> <P>We rely on avoidance.</P> <P>Avoidance = agility = I spent MULTIPLE plat on agility stuff in order to have as high as I could, to be a good MT.</P> <P>Last patch they DESTROYED agility and my tanking ability right along with it.</P> <P>I know how you feel.</P> <P>I'm not arguing, I'm discussing. There is a difference. I understand your opinion, I just see things differently.</P> <P>Of COURSE the majority of posts from people who own horses want them to not be changed. Why would that be?<BR></P>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 03:57 AM

Lut

02-12-2005, 04:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Moorgard,</P> <P>Thanks for responding to this so fast. I am glad we will be able to sell our horses back. But at what amount?</P> <P>Gage go jump off a skyscraper.</P> <P>People who shell out their money on horses have expectations. Saying that horses were never meant to help people avoid danger is ridiculous. Speed and advantage is what horses are about. You have the horse, your enemy doesnt. Advantage to you. Not to mention as a horse owner in EQ2 they arent as all powerful and life saving as you and Moorgard are making them out to be. I have been ripped apart by mobs on my Tier2 horse when trying to get away. Friends of mine have been ripped apart on tier3 horses. Maybe the SK/PLD/Entree level horses are too powerful. But at the higher level when mobs can take off almost 40% of your hp in one strike it doesnt make that much of a difference.</P> <P>People have the right to know if they are gonna get back their full purchase price. Most people I expect who have the tier2 horses and are asking about this plan to upgrade to tier3 I am sure.</P> <P>Gage go find another thread to rant at and raise your post count on.</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

BloodSmo

02-12-2005, 04:19 AM

<DIV>Gage, apparently you dont own a horse, so why would you even have an opinion in the matter?</DIV><p>Message Edited by BloodSmoke on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:20 PM</span>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 04:21 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BloodSmoke wrote:<BR> <DIV>Apparently you dont own a horse, so why would you even have an opinion in the matter?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Why am I not allowed to have an opinion on the state of a game I pay to play?</P> <P>I think refunding the money sets a bad precednet personally.</P> <P>Now anyone who buys something expensive only to have its effect lessoned will ask for a refund. </P> <P>BTW: If I was trying to up my post count (which I'm not since titles go by time) then I'd be in the non-gameplay forum. There are plenty of spam threads in there. As you can see, all of my posts in here have been on topic <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

Dimgroth

02-12-2005, 05:11 AM

wow, soe is becoming a fun sucking vacume, its turning into everywhere you run to get away from the nerf bat it strikes you and all classes are becoming a bit less fun more and more. Im sick of running from the nerf bat, maybe ill just lay off playing a bit, when its not fun its not worth playing.

Teache

02-12-2005, 05:18 AM

<DIV>Gage is obvisously a powergamer and has done well for himself, kudos to you Gage. Now you must understand the majority of us are regular players oblivious to exploits just struggling along to play the game as Sony intended. God forbid that we set such lowly goals as wanting a horse or to level up in crafting. It must make you feel good to point out our problems and tell us to suck it up, ok thank you Gage, you've done your good deed for the day and we appreciate you. Now go out and get some levels and let us wallow in our self pity over this horse issue.....oh oh wait I'm sorry I forgot your level 50 the game is over for you at the moment. Geez dude have a heart.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

yaen

02-12-2005, 06:22 AM

<DIV>the funny part is that, if it was really the "nerf" that everyone wants to say it is, it probably wouldn't have been in the patch notes. THEN everyone would have had a reason to complain for a minute or two when their horses weren't outrunning uber mobs up to par. however, i'm pretty sure they knew no one would be *excited* that horses are now their intended running speed (slower). hence they'll probably figure out a way to give refunds to people that *REALLY* can't stand the intended change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/cope</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>go find a real nerf to complain about and get over it. ty =)</DIV>

Dread Invict

02-12-2005, 06:32 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>Can I sell back my Shadow Knight? Having a horse was actually what make being an SK survivable while soloing. Now I get a 10% speed adition. At lease make it the same as the lowest level horse. Because after my power gets drained faster than any other tank and my life taps heal me insufficiently compared to paladins heals I doubt I will have enough power to run very far. <HR> <P></P></DIV> <DIV>Your horse was supposed to add 0% speed. The speed buff was a bug, consider the 10% a gift.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know what they say about looking a "gift horse" in the mouth <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Having a hores was sapose to make you faster since day one! I was sapose to be slightly slower than the cheapest horse or slightly faster than sprinting speed(not sure which). That I could live with. Gift horse?...yea it was a distinct advantage that was available to pals and sks only. It was the deciding choice for most of us between making some lame [FaarNerfed!] tank with no horse(no offence guardians and zerkers I love you guys) or taking a slight hit on ability to be able to ride a horse that was fater than everyone else and gave you the ability to run away efficiently. Making the horse faster at each level or every 10 levels is a great comprimise I think.</P> <P>Jumping off a building is a bit far, but I will tell you that you are way off in your assessment.<BR></P>

borblefo

02-12-2005, 06:47 AM

<DIV>This is hilarious. I am sitting here and can barely control the laughter. Nerfing the paladins horse speed was ok but nerfing everyone's horse speed is not ok. People's tune change real quick when the shoe is on the other foot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me I don't really care. My horse will now run slower than it did before, big deal its not going to affect me or how I play in any way whatsoever. The extra speed was nice and will be missed, but its not anything I have to have to have fun or play the game. It was a very very very very minor perk that had no to little impact on the game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I always planned to buy a faster horse eventually anyway when I could afford it and now that will run a bit slower too but still faster than my horse runs now.</DIV>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 07:13 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>Can I sell back my Shadow Knight? Having a horse was actually what make being an SK survivable while soloing. Now I get a 10% speed adition. At lease make it the same as the lowest level horse. Because after my power gets drained faster than any other tank and my life taps heal me insufficiently compared to paladins heals I doubt I will have enough power to run very far. <HR> <P></P></DIV> <DIV>Your horse was supposed to add 0% speed. The speed buff was a bug, consider the 10% a gift.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know what they say about looking a "gift horse" in the mouth <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Having a hores was sapose to make you faster since day one! I was sapose to be slightly slower than the cheapest horse or slightly faster than sprinting speed(not sure which). That I could live with. Gift horse?...yea it was a distinct advantage that was available to pals and sks only. It was the deciding choice for most of us between making some lame [FaarNerfed!] tank with no horse(no offence guardians and zerkers I love you guys) or taking a slight hit on ability to be able to ride a horse that was fater than everyone else and gave you the ability to run away efficiently. Making the horse faster at each level or every 10 levels is a great comprimise I think.</P> <P>Jumping off a building is a bit far, but I will tell you that you are way off in your assessment.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>LoL, you are kidding right?<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> <DIV>We explained up front that these spells were meant for nothing more than flavor and fun. Since fun is an entirely subjective term, it's difficult to please everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>It was not intended that the horse spell that paladins and shadowknights receive would have a speed buff, but due to an error on our part it does. </FONT>It's a slight speed increase compared to other mounts, but it exists nonetheless. Our options at this point are:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Nerf the speed buff on the flavor horses so they provide no actual benefit. <LI>Spend development time trying to think up marginally useful spells for all subclasses. Then come up with another round of these abilities when people complain that a different class has one that is somewhat more useful than their own. <LI>Do nothing.</LI></UL> <P>We have chosen the third option at this time. The effect of the horses is not such that it gives knights a game-imbalancing advantage, and we see no benefit in taking a minor perk away from a couple classes just to satisfy someone else.</P> <P>So yes, knights get a flavor spell that is actually useful, and other subclasses don't. The flavor spells are a relatively minor element of gameplay, and we don't plan to modify them at this time.</P> <P>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy <HR> </P> <P>See?</P></DIV>

Waivr

02-12-2005, 07:58 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>Can I sell back my Shadow Knight? Having a horse was actually what make being an SK survivable while soloing. Now I get a 10% speed adition. At lease make it the same as the lowest level horse. Because after my power gets drained faster than any other tank and my life taps heal me insufficiently compared to paladins heals I doubt I will have enough power to run very far.</P></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Um, no. Demonstration of Faith, Knight's Stance, good armor, shields, and wise target selection are what make being an SK survivable while soloing. Yes, we have some power and spell issues. If Harm Touch hit harder and wasn't resisted I'd have added it to the list.</P> <P>But the horse added two things - diversity and utility. Crusaders should be a mounted class. Again, making the ability to summon a horse a true spell equivalent to SoW and self-only with the same speed buff would be a nice compromise to the mistake made in design. Remove the fluff spell entirely. If level 13 is not too early for two classes to earn a speed buff, then level 13 should not be too early for one more class to earn a speed buff that adds distinction to the class.<BR><BR>Yes the current speed buff was not intended on the fluff spell, but the Devs stated it was not unbalancing. Only the incessant whining of the community brought about this change. The price vs. performance is unfair when compared to other classes. Therefore, make it a feature of the class equal to SoW - that is a fair compromise.</P> <P>Arguments that "well, you shouldn't have had any speed at all" are born of jealousy and envy. Not because of the speed buff but because of the image of a horse and the status it supposedly adds. A mistake was made, we were told it wasn't a big deal, and the devs seemed content to leave it at that. As a result, two sub classes have had an ability since launch that suits their classes and is a nice feature of selecting that class. Now because of community whining it is going to be changed. This should not be such a heavy-handed fix.</P>

Bleusong

02-12-2005, 08:57 AM

<blockquote><hr>Waivren wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><DIV><P>Can I sell back my Shadow Knight? Having a horse was actually what make being an SK survivable while soloing. Now I get a 10% speed adition. At lease make it the same as the lowest level horse. Because after my power gets drained faster than any other tank and my life taps heal me insufficiently compared to paladins heals I doubt I will have enough power to run very far.</P></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><P>Um, no. Demonstration of Faith, Knight's Stance, good armor, shields, and wise target selection are what make being an SK survivable while soloing. Yes, we have some power and spell issues. If Harm Touch hit harder and wasn't resisted I'd have added it to the list.</P><P>But the horse added two things - diversity and utility. Crusaders should be a mounted class. Again, making the ability to summon a horse a true spell equivalent to SoW and self-only with the same speed buff would be a nice compromise to the mistake made in design. Remove the fluff spell entirely. If level 13 is not too early for two classes to earn a speed buff, then level 13 should not be too early for one more class to earn a speed buff that adds distinction to the class.<BR><BR>Yes the current speed buff was not intended on the fluff spell, but the Devs stated it was not unbalancing. Only the incessant whining of the community brought about this change. The price vs. performance is unfair when compared to other classes. Therefore, make it a feature of the class equal to SoW - that is a fair compromise.</P><P>Arguments that "well, you shouldn't have had any speed at all" are born of jealousy and envy. Not because of the speed buff but because of the image of a horse and the status it supposedly adds. A mistake was made, we were told it wasn't a big deal, and the devs seemed content to leave it at that. As a result, two sub classes have had an ability since launch that suits their classes and is a nice feature of selecting that class. Now because of community whining it is going to be changed. This should not be such a heavy-handed fix.</P><hr></blockquote>i concur sir~<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jackkal

02-12-2005, 09:07 AM

<blockquote><hr>Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><DIV><P>Can I sell back my Shadow Knight? Having a horse was actually what make being an SK survivable while soloing. Now I get a 10% speed adition. At lease make it the same as the lowest level horse. Because after my power gets drained faster than any other tank and my life taps heal me insufficiently compared to paladins heals I doubt I will have enough power to run very far.<HR><P></P></DIV><DIV>Your horse was supposed to add 0% speed. The speed buff was a bug, consider the 10% a gift.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>You know what they say about looking a "gift horse" in the mouth <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Having a hores was sapose to make you faster since day one! I was sapose to be slightly slower than the cheapest horse or slightly faster than sprinting speed(not sure which). That I could live with. Gift horse?...yea it was a distinct advantage that was available to pals and sks only. It was the deciding choice for most of us between making some lame [FaarNerfed!] tank with no horse(no offence guardians and zerkers I love you guys) or taking a slight hit on ability to be able to ride a horse that was fater than everyone else and gave you the ability to run away efficiently. Making the horse faster at each level or every 10 levels is a great comprimise I think.</P><P>Jumping off a building is a bit far, but I will tell you that you are way off in your assessment.<BR></P><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LoL, you are kidding right?<BR><DIV> </DIV><DIV><HR><DIV>We explained up front that these spells were meant for nothing more than flavor and fun. Since fun is an entirely subjective term, it's difficult to please everyone.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>It was not intended that the horse spell that paladins and shadowknights receive would have a speed buff, but due to an error on our part it does. </FONT>It's a slight speed increase compared to other mounts, but it exists nonetheless. Our options at this point are:</DIV><UL><LI>Nerf the speed buff on the flavor horses so they provide no actual benefit. <LI>Spend development time trying to think up marginally useful spells for all subclasses. Then come up with another round of these abilities when people complain that a different class has one that is somewhat more useful than their own. <LI>Do nothing.</LI></UL><P>We have chosen the third option at this time. The effect of the horses is not such that it gives knights a game-imbalancing advantage, and we see no benefit in taking a minor perk away from a couple classes just to satisfy someone else.</P><P>So yes, knights get a flavor spell that is actually useful, and other subclasses don't. The flavor spells are a relatively minor element of gameplay, and we don't plan to modify them at this time.</P><P>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy<HR></P><P>See?</P></DIV><hr></blockquote>What really gets me, is Moorgard says the Crusader horse speed is game-imbalancing.OK, maybe. Now what about pet classes in Tradeskill instances? Still seeing pets taking the damage from reactions instead of the players. What about illusions that provide another advantage? not at all balanced with the other tradeskillers in a different advanturing class.Yea, OK, I know that wasnt on topic but had to vent a bit.

Jackkal

02-12-2005, 09:14 AM

Kyriel

02-12-2005, 10:05 AM

<DIV><FONT color=#66ffff>why should we NOT get our<U> FULL PRICE </U>back for our horse? Why should we lose a % of our plat because of SOE mistake?? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff>You say it will cause a market crash? We would all become rich quick? WHAT ABOUT <STRONG><U>IF WE NEVER BOUGHT THE HORSE TO BEGIN WITH, WE WOULD STILL HAVE ALL THE MONEY</U></STRONG>. Why should we have to lose some just because soe? That isnt right. </FONT></DIV>

akuarius

02-12-2005, 01:25 PM

<blockquote><hr>Iseabeil wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Renrical wrote:<BR>just wondering, but shouldn't this be adressed before the game ran for months?<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>if players do things that are not expected, how are they gonna be able to predict that? if the speed is downed to stop horses bein used to run from mobs, and that was never an intended part, then its obvious they will either have to change it, or ignore what they were created for at first place. granted, some stuff many would suspect, but this is a game created by humans, and humans will make mistakes and ooops'es.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Yeah, but when Firestone made their "oops" with their faulty tires, they got sued for billions of dollars. I seriously doubt SOE will issue real money refunds to people that will not longer enjoy the game as much because they have to spend more time mindlessly scurrying across zones because the dev's din't have the time to install Griffin towers appropriately in all the big zones because SOE had a marketing machine in place, rlease dates readied, and bottom lines to watch. They certainly made no apologies about charging money so that we could finance their (still) undeveloped product which is obviously still in beta (since they have to make such huge sweeping changes so often). Have you noticed their EULA? It basically says, "We are screwing you, and if you don't like it, too bad. We have your money and there is nothing you can do about it because you have to hit the agree button before you can see exactly how we are about to disappoint you with our substandard programming which may get worse every time we release another patch."What's wrong with running away from mobs anyway? When you're in trouble, you run. The person that can runs faster should be able evade danger! I got attacked by SAND SNAPPERS today (turtles) and didn't want to deal with them. I hit "sprint" and they were still at my heals snapping away. They were TURTLES! Come on people, I should be able to outrun a freaking turtle. Horse or no horse.

Iseabeil

02-12-2005, 02:28 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zemfira wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff>why should we NOT get our<U> FULL PRICE </U>back for our horse? Why should we lose a % of our plat because of SOE mistake?? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff>You say it will cause a market crash? We would all become rich quick? WHAT ABOUT <STRONG><U>IF WE NEVER BOUGHT THE HORSE TO BEGIN WITH, WE WOULD STILL HAVE ALL THE MONEY</U></STRONG>. Why should we have to lose some just because soe? That isnt right. </FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>used goods has their value degraded. if ye bought a horse two months ago, and get 100% refund, ye had a horse for free for 2 months. hopefully SoE can somehow detect the age on the whistle and use that to determine the sellback. that would be the fairest as i see it.</DIV>

Nuvi

02-12-2005, 02:52 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dankster wrote:<BR> <DIV>To the imaginary entity at SoE,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Speed up mobs, leave horses alone. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> and what about the ppl that dont have horses?they are a much larger part then those with horses.

Nuvi

02-12-2005, 02:54 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bungleman wrote:<BR> <DIV>Fine, fine... whatever. The majority of the people here think that the nerf is uncalled for and needs to be fixed. And so do I. Maybe they'll do a 20% reduction of the stats on your armor sometime and you'll understand. Until then, there's no need in arguing because this doesn't affect you. Sorry for arguing with you in the first place.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> your horse doesnt have a direct impact on combat,hes amror has,horse is just a bonus/time saver,i dont see how 8% reduction is the end of the world for some of you but it clearly is....

Nuvi

02-12-2005, 02:57 PM

Collitini

02-12-2005, 04:59 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BloodSmoke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Collitinius wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Damitri wrote:<BR> <DIV> Just wondering becuase there NEEDS to be one. I mean [Removed for Content]? If you guys saved up some money and bought a Jaguar, then next week someone put a dang Neon engine in it.....You'd raise hell to right? Oh coarse you would, and you'd DEMAND a full refund...well guess what? Thats what us hard playing citizens of Norath are gonna do!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Now hold on just a cotton picken minute, you!!!! I can't believe the audacity you displayed in the above post...really!</P> <P>Neons rock, man! Now, putting a neon engine into a jag...maybe not a good idea...but pound for pound Neon's are fast little suckers. I loved mine. Got a buddy who races them and swears by them.</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>What is the point of this post?</P> <P>Imo cursader horses are fine, maybe they are the only fun spells that arnt broken. Maybe every class should get a spell that doesnt suck. As an Inqus i make people cringe who are lower lvl than me in my group......wow what fun.......</P> <P>Other horses, whats the point of nerfing them? I have a 9pp horse and decreasing it by 8% to 40% may not seem like alot, but why then would i spend 50pp on a crapet that goes only 48% seems pointless. </P> <P>Instead of nerfing usless crap why not fix all the bugs? SK are so bugged its funny, their 25 taunt is bugged, the damage output is laughable. Inquis get crap heals compared to other classes. Why would a warrior have more power than an inquisitor and have 3 times as much HP? How if Tanks have hard time holding aggro with all the broken spells would you make wizards do 300% more damage to get more aggro? Why do Inquis Debuffs not make a difference? Why do bards get a reserect? Why do bards get to use ranged weapons and SKs and Pallys dont? It seems that the only class that has their own spells in the bard with all their songs. I'm not even going to get into tradeskills but your whole system is going to suck once you make this patch go live. Why do you screw over the people who play your game the most? Why do the "Good" healing classes get better heals then the "Evil" ones. Why do you continuously not fix game breaking bugs and continuously nerf?</P> <P>In closing, Why do you always have a grand "Vision" for your game and when the game isnt going in that direction you nerf the hell out of it, when Vanguard comes out next year i cant wait to see its vision....</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> It's called levity. You know...lightening the mood.?

Gaige

02-12-2005, 05:09 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zemfira wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff>why should we NOT get our<U> FULL PRICE </U>back for our horse? Why should we lose a % of our plat because of SOE mistake?? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff>You say it will cause a market crash? We would all become rich quick? WHAT ABOUT <STRONG><U>IF WE NEVER BOUGHT THE HORSE TO BEGIN WITH, WE WOULD STILL HAVE ALL THE MONEY</U></STRONG>. Why should we have to lose some just because soe? That isnt right. </FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Um... where does it say you get a portion of your money back?<BR>

Teache

02-12-2005, 06:25 PM

<DIV>Gage your not 51 yet? come on with all your insight you can't be stuck at 50 and forced to farm us green forum mobs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Ok seriously now people, I would like to see us come to the support of each others classes and issues. If you cannot support an issue then don't come on and be negative. I came here to help save the horses, I don't own one nor do I have the coin too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> A few weeks back I was reading some very well thought out and insightful posts on the agility issue(I have a baby 18 soon to be monk), these posts were authored by Gage. I thought wow level 50 monk he has got this issue covered, alas I was wrong he needed my support and everyones support and maybe the devs would have listened or took a little more time before going live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> This horse issue marks an era at least in my gaming life where I'm no longer a forum reader but now a poster, so we need to come together in the effort of support, I find it easier to be smart azzed and witty but that gets us no where, so Gage please accept my apologies for just reading your posts on agility and not supporting you. I'm still going to be smart azzed to you non supporters, I'm not ready to be a total softy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> It would seem to me that devs could take just a few minutes out if their busy schedule sit down, have a coke or coffee and go through the core issues on this board put out the fires, let folks know what is going on, that is what I do every day at my business and the fact that the lowest person to the highest knows what going, makes people feel cared about, they feel they have input to their future. Most times they don't like what I have to say or do but that is life. I'm man enough to let them know and hear their opinion. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I play this game for entertainment along with my wife, kids and alot of folks from work, we find it more enjoyable than what Hollywood is currently offering and we spend less money and more time with our children. Bah enough with the bio .... I'm rambling. Point is Sony you need to show you care, we are not your employees, we are something far more valuable we are your customers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I believe what has happened and why the nerf bat is swinging so much, is because the devs did not anticipate people consuming the content of EQ2 so quickly. They say we are getting double xp but I'm not so sure correct me if I'm wrong, I seem to be slowing down(28 zerker). This would be my concern if I was selling this product, so what that the power gamer is 50, but if the masses reach 50 four to five months after release that would be a concern for product longevity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> So say it Sony we are grown ups, next expansion not due out until fall, bulk of the players capping out or near it, ok no biggie give everyone four more character slots and take this time to refine the product you have into the best game ever. But tell the people what is going on if they know, they will not jump ship to another game, you might find that most folks would be receptive and helpful as this is their game too.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Kodros

02-12-2005, 06:34 PM

I don't give two craps how much money you paid for anything. You should NEVER have the ability to escape from an encounter 100% of the time. You might as well just have SOE give you experience for standing there. EQ has always been risk vs reward. Someone with a horse please tell me how you are at risk when riding a horse.

Teache

02-12-2005, 06:49 PM

<DIV> Kodros, you are exactly my point, negative, non supportive, uninformed. Where did you obtain your information?, do you have a horse and it so overpowered you that you deleted it? and why won't you give two craps, I usually have two craps a day, I usually flush them but I'd be happy to give them to you.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 07:40 PM

<DIV>The point is this: The devs are not out to hurt and/or [Removed for Content] of their playerbase. That would be suicide. Moorgard even stated that some of these changes in the patch wouldn't be welcomed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact of the matter is what a player considers game breaking and what the development team considers game breaking are two very different things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One is uninformed and passionate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One is informed and unemotional.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the devs are nerfing horse run speed they feel it is warranted. Does that mean its going to be accepted with open arms? Nah. Do I accept all the core gameplay changes with open arms? No. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I sometimes feel like I have a pretty good grasp on how this game works and how it is supposed to work, but a lot of the time I'm guessing or assuming. Plus I'm biased. I'm biased towards my class and how I want things to work, I'm biased towards the things I own or want. I'm biased in what I consider fun. Those things I care about, other issues I tend to not care about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everyone is the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand the change is considered drastic by some and unwarranted by others. I understand people have the right to voice their opinion, I just feel in this instance a whole lot of people are going amazingly overboard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The main complaints with this nerf are from:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) SKs/Paladins</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Horse owners</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The SKs/Pallys have 100% no leg to stand on. They were benefiting from an unintentional bug and because of dev kindness they are going to continue to get a 10% run boost on their horse that isn't supposed to have any. That is called a gift. These people can find nothing better to do than complain at the people trying to be nice to them. I understand your classes have broken elements, most do. But citing one for the other isn't constructive. If you truly want your class looked into, post (as you have) a thread with a list of your issues with the class or broken things and then wait for the dev team to address it, its all you can do. Call me crazy but I'd imagine that as much as the dev team would want to, they just can't fix everything at once.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The horse owners may have a legitimate gripe, but its lessened by one huge thing: Moorgard has stated that due to the overwhelming response they knew was inevitable from this change, they are going to place a special stable hand merchant just for buying back horses. These are the same horses that up until this point were no-trade. This means that people who have benefited from their horse for however many days can now sell back their horse for a refund (even if its partial - which it SHOULD be as they benefited from it for some time at the "advertised" speed). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Instead of taking time to even consider the courtesy extended to them by the devs they immediately jump to conclusions and continue to complain and whine about a change that the dev team obviously feels is warranted, that the dev team realizes will be unliked, and that the dev team is trying to make amends to by offering some sort of refund.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do they even stop to consider the people who may of bought a horse and then rerolled? Or any of the other numerous scenarios where people have "worked" hard and spent their time getting a horse only to be in a situation that was less than ideal by the "no-trade" status of whistles? No.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They would rather just rant and complain and have the "I AM ENTITLED" "I PAY TO PLAY" attitude. Its mememememememe. They don't care about game balance, they care about what they need, what they want and what suits them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Depending on how this buy back vendor works it may open all kinds of scenarios SoE was trying to avoid just to appease the people who feel betrayed by this nerf, and what thanks do they get for it? More whining and end of the world posts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its sad really that supposedly mature people would act like a bunch of eight year olds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys can flame me, my post count, my level, my play time, whatever you want to make yourselves feel better. Have at it. One star me, mock me, be sarcastic. It really doesn't matter to me. I'm not taking your precious horse away, but you can blame me if it helps you cope <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>02-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:44 AM</span>

Kodros

02-12-2005, 08:14 PM

<blockquote><hr>Teacher1 wrote:<DIV> Kodros, you are exactly my point, negative, non supportive, uninformed. Where did you obtain your information?, do you have a horse and it so overpowered you that you deleted it? and why won't you give two craps, I usually have two craps a day, I usually flush them but I'd be happy to give them to you.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV><hr></blockquote>I'm negative because I see everyone complaining how it is unconvienent(sp) for them but they are ignoring that this does not fit in with the design of the game that SOE planned. I am supportive, but not of you guys. I am supportive of what SOE did because it fixes a imbalance in the risk vs reward system. And I dont believe that I am uninformed. If I am, please let me know. From what I do know is that even the Teir 1 horses were able to be as fast or faster then mobs in the game. If this is the case, how is it possible for a mob to catch up with you? If they can't catch up with you, how is the balance of the risk vs the reward part of the game?

Eliar

02-12-2005, 08:23 PM

:edit eh .. decided what I had to say was not producitve .. lol<p>Message Edited by Eliar on <span class=date_text>02-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:25 AM</span>

Lairdragna

02-12-2005, 08:32 PM

Isebil, NO! Does the horse run any slower today than it did a few months ago? Nope, age has not in any way impeded the horse's ability to do as advertised. Thus, there should be no reduction in buy back IF it is done within a certain time window. Nobody to me knowledge is proposing 100% sellback indefinitely. Just long enough to give people who spent an enormous amount of time to obtain the plat which they used to purchase it an opportunity to get it back should they choose because (1) the horse is no longer worth that to them due to a change SOE made post-facto or (2) they desire to upgrade to a higher cost horse and don't want to take it in the pants as they play into SOE's progressive money sink. After a suitable period of time leave the stable hand alone, but only give 75% buyback. That is more than enough to discourage the "renting" of horses for a short period.

Gaige

02-12-2005, 08:36 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote:<BR>Isebil, NO! Does the horse run any slower today than it did a few months ago? Nope, age has not in any way impeded the horse's ability to do as advertised. Thus, there should be no reduction in buy back IF it is done within a certain time window. Nobody to me knowledge is proposing 100% sellback indefinitely. Just long enough to give people who spent an enormous amount of time to obtain the plat which they used to purchase it an opportunity to get it back should they choose because<FONT color=#ffff00> (1) the horse is no longer worth that to them due to a change SOE made post-facto</FONT> or (2) they desire to upgrade to a higher cost horse and don't want to take it in the pants as they play into SOE's progressive money sink. After a suitable period of time leave the stable hand alone, but only give 75% buyback. That is more than enough to discourage the "renting" of horses for a short period.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>But it was worth that to them for the entire time (including the amount of time this patch is on test). It has been and will continue to have the advertised run speed until the patch goes live.</P> <P>That would be like buying a car, paying on it for 4 years and then trading it in and getting full retail price towards a new car because a faster version came out.</P> <P>The buy back should be at a reduced cost, like the 75% you mentioned.<BR></P>

illum.

02-12-2005, 08:49 PM

What is the reason behind this timesink?Is it the same kind of logic being used as when planning look-at-a-wall-four-hours selling?I mean while in combat the thing moves hilariously slow already, like on tons of valium after a hangover.If you spend 5 plat like I did on a HORSE you'd expect it to be faster than a skateboard in a swamp yes?Edit: Removing some of the apparently bugged speedbuff from palladins is good I guess. Especially considering the price they pay. I don't however understand the need to nerf horse speed outside combat?<p>Message Edited by illum.se on <span class=date_text>02-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:58 AM</span>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 08:58 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> illum.se wrote:<BR>What is the reason behind this timesink?<BR>Is it the same kind of logic being used as when planning look-at-a-wall-four-hours selling?<BR><BR>I mean while in combat the thing moves hilariously slow already, like on tons of valium after a hangover.<BR>If you spend 5 plat like I did on a HORSE you'd expect it to be faster than a skateboard in a swamp yes?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You can never appease everyone's expectations.</P> <P>Moorgard has already explained why there is no offline selling by the way, SoE feels that it makes items too readily available.<BR></P>

illum.

02-12-2005, 08:59 PM

Come on man, not once there did I write OFFLINE.I wrote ONLINE selling.

Gaige

02-12-2005, 09:02 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> illum.se wrote:<BR>Come on man, not once there did I write OFFLINE.<BR><BR>I wrote ONLINE selling.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I know. You were saying that you felt the horses were just at time sink like "look at the four walls selling". I assumed you were implying that offline selling would be better, so because of that I posted why there isn't offline selling. (Which was hard for me to get used to since SWG had offline selling). So if I assumed wrong, I apologize.

Waivr

02-12-2005, 09:19 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kodros wrote:<BR>I don't give two craps how much money you paid for anything. You should NEVER have the ability to escape from an encounter 100% of the time. You might as well just have SOE give you experience for standing there. EQ has always been risk vs reward. Someone with a horse please tell me how you are at risk when riding a horse.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Actually, while in combat the horse has the same speed rules as unmounted players and SoW. You move at normal combat speed just like everyone else until you break the encounter. Once you break the encounter, giving up all chance for reward or xp, you do regain the ability to move at full speed...just like with SoW, Jboots, and all other non-sprint buffs. </P> <P>Class features were well known before launch on about 300 different websites. If you chose not to play a Crusader in favor of another class with different abilities, then you made your Risk vs. Reward choice. When we selected Crusader, we did not know that the horse had a substantial speed buff. We only knew that we could summon a horse. </P> <P>Drop the fluff spell and make our summon horse ability equivalent to self-only SoW. </P>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 09:21 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Waivren wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kodros wrote:<BR>I don't give two craps how much money you paid for anything. You should NEVER have the ability to escape from an encounter 100% of the time. You might as well just have SOE give you experience for standing there. EQ has always been risk vs reward. Someone with a horse please tell me how you are at risk when riding a horse.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Actually, while in combat the horse has the same speed rules as unmounted players and SoW. <FONT color=#ff6600>You move at normal combat speed just like everyone else until you break the encounter. Once you break the encounter, giving up all chance for reward or xp, you do regain the ability to move at full speed...just like with SoW, Jboots, and all other non-sprint buffs. </FONT></P> <P>Class features were well known before launch on about 300 different websites. If you chose not to play a Crusader in favor of another class with different abilities, then you made your Risk vs. Reward choice. <FONT color=#ffff00>When we selected Crusader, we did not know that the horse had a substantial speed buff. We only knew that we could summon a horse. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Drop the fluff spell and make our summon horse ability equivalent to self-only SoW. </FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) Good so you shouldn't mind the change.</P> <P>2) Wait, if you didn't know it had a speed buff when you rolled, why do you want to keep it now? (You are btw, 10% - should be 0%).</P> <P>The problem lies in the fact that a mob can aggro you and you will be in an out of combat state, at this time you can effectively evade and run from mobs at full speed, because you haven't chose to engage the encounter.<BR></P>

Waivr

02-12-2005, 09:34 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) Good so you shouldn't mind the change.</P> <P>2) Wait, if you didn't know it had a speed buff when you rolled, why do you want to keep it now? (You are btw, 10% - should be 0%).</P> <P><STRONG>The problem lies in the fact that a mob can aggro you and you will be in an out of combat state, at this time you can effectively evade and run from mobs at full speed, because you haven't chose to engage the encounter.<BR></STRONG></P> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>And this is different from SoW how?

Gaige

02-12-2005, 09:37 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Waivren wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) Good so you shouldn't mind the change.</P> <P>2) Wait, if you didn't know it had a speed buff when you rolled, why do you want to keep it now? (You are btw, 10% - should be 0%).</P> <P><STRONG>The problem lies in the fact that a mob can aggro you and you will be in an out of combat state, at this time you can effectively evade and run from mobs at full speed, because you haven't chose to engage the encounter.<BR></STRONG></P> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>And this is different from SoW how? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In a number of ways I suppose, but I assume the biggest would be: SoW/PF wear off and a horse doesn't. But it doesn't matter because the devs decided to not change SoW/PF, and I'm not a dev.</P> <P>I'm just reiterating why the mounts are being changed.<BR></P>

Waivr

02-12-2005, 09:52 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Waivren wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) Good so you shouldn't mind the change.</P> <P>2) Wait, if you didn't know it had a speed buff when you rolled, why do you want to keep it now? (You are btw, 10% - should be 0%).</P> <P><STRONG>The problem lies in the fact that a mob can aggro you and you will be in an out of combat state, at this time you can effectively evade and run from mobs at full speed, because you haven't chose to engage the encounter.<BR></STRONG></P> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>And this is different from SoW how? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In a number of ways I suppose, but I assume the biggest would be: SoW/PF wear off and a horse doesn't. But it doesn't matter because the devs decided to not change SoW/PF, and I'm not a dev.</P> <P>I'm just reiterating why the mounts are being changed.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Then you haven't understood what I'm suggesting: Make the horse summon ability equivalent to SoW in everyway - just with an image of a horse so that Crusaders can have a mounted appearance, providing diversity for the class. Same speed bonus, same time span, and even self-only so that we don't tread into the shaman/druid territory too far.</P> <P>I know why mounts are being changed. But let's be honest here....even if the devs had said at the beginning that the Crusader fluff spell was as-intended and would not be changed, we would still be right here in the same position. Why? Because yes, as it stands since launch the situation was unfair. I asking for the ability to be validated by moving it from fluff status and bringing it inline with what other classes are already able to do.</P> <P>Judging from your posts on the subject, I really think you're here just to try and ruffle feathers. This involves my class and I actually have a stake in the change. Why are you here if you are not going to suggest alternatives, but just say over and over again that Crusaders should loose the ability?</P> <P><BR> </P>

Gaige

02-12-2005, 10:06 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Waivren wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Waivren wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) Good so you shouldn't mind the change.</P> <P>2) Wait, if you didn't know it had a speed buff when you rolled, why do you want to keep it now? (You are btw, 10% - should be 0%).</P> <P><STRONG>The problem lies in the fact that a mob can aggro you and you will be in an out of combat state, at this time you can effectively evade and run from mobs at full speed, because you haven't chose to engage the encounter.<BR></STRONG></P> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>And this is different from SoW how? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In a number of ways I suppose, but I assume the biggest would be: SoW/PF wear off and a horse doesn't. But it doesn't matter because the devs decided to not change SoW/PF, and I'm not a dev.</P> <P>I'm just reiterating why the mounts are being changed.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Then you haven't understood what I'm suggesting: Make the horse summon ability equivalent to SoW in everyway - just with an image of a horse so that Crusaders can have a mounted appearance, providing diversity for the class. Same speed bonus, same time span, and even self-only so that we don't tread into the shaman/druid territory too far.</P> <P>I know why mounts are being changed. But let's be honest here....even if the devs had said at the beginning that the Crusader fluff spell was as-intended and would not be changed, we would still be right here in the same position. Why? Because yes, as it stands since launch the situation was unfair. I asking for the ability to be validated by moving it from fluff status and bringing it inline with what other classes are already able to do.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Judging from your posts on the subject, I really think you're here just to try and ruffle feathers. This involves my class and I actually have a stake in the change. Why are you here if you are not going to suggest alternatives, but just say over and over again that Crusaders should loose the ability?<BR></FONT> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm really not trying to do that. I'm trying to understand your position.</P> <P>1) You say you didn't know when you rolled that there was a speed benefit, which was a bug.</P> <P>2) You seem to think for some reason that Pallys/SKs should have a speed buff. You even recommend moving the spell from fluff to an actual spell like SoW that looks like a horse.</P> <P>What I don't understand is if you never knew the horse was a speed buff why do you now a) want to keep it b) want to have a speed buff as an actual spell instead of fluff.</P> <P>Your horse is fluff, its always intended to be fluff. That it was a speed buff was unintended. The fact that they are leaving it at a 10% boost instead of 0% shows that they are being nice.</P> <P>Why then do you feel that you are entitled as a class to having a speed buff, since one for your class was never intended. I assume people would be happy left with a 10% increase in their fluff spell over everyone else's 0%.</P> <P>I understand that you are stating to get it moved away from fluff so that people can't bring that arguement up, but the simple fact is your class was never intended to have a speed buff, it was an oversight.<BR></P>

Waivr

02-12-2005, 10:32 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Waivren wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Waivren wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) Good so you shouldn't mind the change.</P> <P>2) Wait, if you didn't know it had a speed buff when you rolled, why do you want to keep it now? (You are btw, 10% - should be 0%).</P> <P><STRONG>The problem lies in the fact that a mob can aggro you and you will be in an out of combat state, at this time you can effectively evade and run from mobs at full speed, because you haven't chose to engage the encounter.<BR></STRONG></P> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>And this is different from SoW how? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In a number of ways I suppose, but I assume the biggest would be: SoW/PF wear off and a horse doesn't. But it doesn't matter because the devs decided to not change SoW/PF, and I'm not a dev.</P> <P>I'm just reiterating why the mounts are being changed.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Then you haven't understood what I'm suggesting: Make the horse summon ability equivalent to SoW in everyway - just with an image of a horse so that Crusaders can have a mounted appearance, providing diversity for the class. Same speed bonus, same time span, and even self-only so that we don't tread into the shaman/druid territory too far.</P> <P>I know why mounts are being changed. But let's be honest here....even if the devs had said at the beginning that the Crusader fluff spell was as-intended and would not be changed, we would still be right here in the same position. Why? Because yes, as it stands since launch the situation was unfair. I asking for the ability to be validated by moving it from fluff status and bringing it inline with what other classes are already able to do.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Judging from your posts on the subject, I really think you're here just to try and ruffle feathers. This involves my class and I actually have a stake in the change. Why are you here if you are not going to suggest alternatives, but just say over and over again that Crusaders should loose the ability?<BR></FONT> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm really not trying to do that. I'm trying to understand your position.</P> <P>1) You say you didn't know when you rolled that there was a speed benefit, which was a bug.</P> <P>2) You seem to think for some reason that Pallys/SKs should have a speed buff. You even recommend moving the spell from fluff to an actual spell like SoW that looks like a horse.</P> <P>What I don't understand is if you never knew the horse was a speed buff why do you now a) want to keep it b) want to have a speed buff as an actual spell instead of fluff.</P> <P>Your horse is fluff, its always intended to be fluff. That it was a speed buff was unintended. The fact that they are leaving it at a 10% boost instead of 0% shows that they are being nice.</P> <P>Why then do you feel that you are entitled as a class to having a speed buff, since one for your class was never intended. I assume people would be happy left with a 10% increase in their fluff spell over everyone else's 0%.</P> <P>I understand that you are stating to get it moved away from fluff so that people can't bring that arguement up, but the simple fact is your class was never intended to have a speed buff, it was an oversight.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>The reason we want to keep it is obvious: It is a useful ability similar to SoW. And when you see that you get a summoned horse as an ability, the logical conclusion is that it will be faster than walking. It just wasn't known that it would be *that* fast. I should have clarified that.</P> <P>I'm also coming from the perspective that typically knights are mounted. The closest thing to mounts are the Crusaders. It's not written in stone that only Druid/Shaman classes should ever have speed buffs. I've never used the purchased buffs that are apparently available in game so I cannot comment on them, but it seems that allowing other classes to speed buff is not out of the question. So where is the harm in allowing Crusaders to have a spell as I have described? The Devs stated themselves that it was not an unbalancing ability as it stands now. I'm suggesting the horse be slowed down to match SoW speed and that it have the same restrictions. It's really a design question. The fact that the horse was added as fluff is irrelevant. Forget there ever was a fluff spell. Why is the above out of the question? It comes down to opinions on design, on which we obviously disagree and could argue about for days.</P> <P>Yes the speed buff was an oversight, but it is one they allowed to remain until everyone complained. The precedent has been set, I'm simply suggesting a more elegant solution to the issue.</P> <P> </P>

Yama Seish

02-12-2005, 11:04 PM

Gage, I've been on you side of things in most of the posts I have read of you. I am a monk and I've followed closely what has happened with our tanking ability after big-patch-2. However, I must intercede at this point, and perhaps not so clearly on your side of things in so far as this issue is concerned. I intend not to take a pole, but mediate them.There are problems that the devs want to address regarding horses. What could these be? Ok, it is a constant, permament adventage to avoid encounters in otherwise dangerous areas. It can also help in running away once an engaged encounter is "broken" by yelling out for help. The former problem seems to me of greater concern than the latter. Why? Because running away from a sought fight, from an encounter one seeks or starts or accepts, can be pulled off with ease by everyone simply sprinting (get a good power regen drink, and/or enchanter's buff and you are in shape to run for a while) and using evac in group situations. Having a horse to run away after breaking encounter should not really be that big of an issue, I'd think. That it can help immensely to navigate treacherous zones is probably what brings the most into this "problem" with horses' speed. However, if this is so, then why have horses at all? a permanent "sow" should be as helpful as a slightly better "sow" in transversing these areas. To sum up here. I guess I still need to be convinced that there really is a big problem of unfariness from people that own a horse. Until that happens, I won't understand the need for a "fix"Moreover, the problem with the proposed "fix" is that it is sweeps over areas where "supposedly" horses created no problems whatsoever, Gage. Why should the overall speed of the horse be lowered when one of its main functions is to help people reduce travel times? If the problem, if this is really the problem, is with encounters, then addressing that in specificity without hurting the other uses of horses would be most appropriate.I thought the same about the changes to agility and the coming changes to strength. They simply were too general in solving their intended "target-problem", thereby hurting all sorts of other related issues. So agi did influence a little much, ok, I agree. After patch this was reduced so much that one really wonders what went behind the scenes.Ok. Now we go to Str. Instead of providing scouts a boost to their dmg capability through upgrades to their abilities, and also in order to ground the increase in relative damage that casters, specially wizzies and warlocks, are going to get, str gets "nerfed" and hence the change affects across the board to anyone that so chooses to go through the str route, wether they are fighter or scout archetypes.Scouts are not really that better off, and the developers save having to balance up the rest of caster classes since a sweeping reduction of others' abilities takes care of that. This also affects thr desirability of buffs and songs and therefore the value of whole classes' focuses. 300 points increase in str accounts for what? 30 percent increase? Geez, guess we should just worry about getting above 100 and then add another two other dps to the group instead of a shammy/bard to boost our stats, since they will add better dps than what we would get through buffs. (Ok, sammy/bards bring much more to the table than stat buffs, but you see where I am going.)Specific fixes take time, effort and testing. A lot harder than changing the global variables that command the overall structure of the game mechanics. But, ultimately, these specific addressing of problems does not have the potential alienation of generalized, wide-brush stroke moves to "fix" particular problems.Peace.Yama

Gaige

02-12-2005, 11:31 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Yama Seishin wrote:</P> <P>Specific fixes take time, effort and testing. A lot harder than changing the global variables that command the overall structure of the game mechanics. But, ultimately, these specific addressing of problems does not have the potential alienation of generalized, wide-brush stroke moves to "fix" particular problems.<BR><BR>Peace.<BR><BR>Yama<BR> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I totally agree. I just think there are constructive and non-constructive ways to try to get things changed. I 100% didn't agree with how the agility nerf happened, I felt, as did most, that the buffs should've been tweaked, but that isn't what happened with the change. We posted and posted about it and we are getting a change in the coming patch, although not one that everyone feels will work or is even in line with what is needed, we'll see.</P> <P>Whether or not the horse speeds need to be decreased, they are. The devs feel they are too fast, and the types of posts people are generating are not going to get that changed anytime soon. What the devs need is a constructive reason why the current values need to be kept other than: I worked hard and paid a lot for it. That isn't going to cut it, and we all know it.</P> <P>As for the SK/Pally issue: you are right, we could argue it all day, but I'm not going to. I see your point and I tend to agree with it, but that's a whole new can of worms. If you read some of my posts in the huge thread asking for it to be nerfed, I said it didn't need to be, as my opinion was and is that it wasn't hurting the game. At the same time though advocating a whole new ability for a class because you had it through a bug is something I'll leave that to you <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

Zingsterf

02-13-2005, 02:55 AM

<DIV>bah</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>pocket change =)</DIV>

Teache

02-13-2005, 03:07 AM

<DIV> It's sad really sad I had higher hopes for the game and it's content, I just picked up a copy of Computer Games March 2005 issue 172 and World of Warcraft is No. 1 game of the year? EQ2 is ranked 7th place? and when questioned about the future of EQ2 the SOE devs had no comment and the blizzrd boys gave them a 6 page article on the future of their game, what gives. I feel like I'm on a cruise boat where the Captain and crew have abandoned ship, leaving us fighting over the buffet table. Gage use some of your intellect to help folks. Were sorry about the agility issue, you need to get over it, lashing out at others and their issues only makes more sad players .:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Gaige

02-13-2005, 03:50 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teacher1 wrote:<BR> <DIV> It's sad really sad I had higher hopes for the game and it's content, I just picked up a copy of Computer Games March 2005 issue 172 and World of Warcraft is No. 1 game of the year? EQ2 is ranked 7th place? and when questioned about the future of EQ2 the SOE devs had no comment and the blizzrd boys gave them a 6 page article on the future of their game, what gives. I feel like I'm on a cruise boat where the Captain and crew have abandoned ship, leaving us fighting over the buffet table. <FONT color=#ffff00>Gage use some of your intellect to help folks. Were sorry about the agility issue, you need to get over it, lashing out at others and their issues only makes more sad players .:smileyvery-happy:</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Don't misconstrue what I say please, I'm not "lashing out" at anyone.</P> <P>You guys can talk about WoW all you want, but its not for everyone. I play a lvl 60 over there also and that game certainly has issues.<BR></P>

Teache

02-13-2005, 04:34 AM

<DIV>I'm not suggesting we go to wow, I truly hope this game will stand the test of time, my point is the devs need to be proud of their product and their abilities. At least comment to a national publication, when you don't, it leaves you wide open for speculation. Kudos again Gage your having experienced both worlds, this should make you an invaluable asset to the devs, to bad they don't use you. We need to come together as a player base and support each others issues within reason. I just don't get the harm in leaving the horses alone, other than someone doesn't think they are fair. I'm a casual player I don't have a horse or the coins to get one so if I don't have an issue why do others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>God knows I wish for a horse my 28 barb zerker has got to be one slowest running toons I've seen, when trouble hits or it looks like I'm not going to prevail in a fight, I break the encounter before im down to the last 2 bubs of power, turn off attack and hit sprint haven't died yet unless I'm in a dungeon then I its always die for the team. I rarely get hit running away in the open. I don't see that much of an advantage. Scouts can evac which seems to me much nicer than running in any form. Just my 2cp:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Eliar

02-13-2005, 04:43 AM

<DIV>Dang, Gage!! Where you find the time to play all these games and max out level? lol BTW, I agree with you for the most part on what you are saying. Trying to justifiy getting a new class ability based on the fact that you had the ability over the past couple of months just does not hold water. Personally, I feel they should just leave the horses as is. I just really do not see the advantage in regards to the combat issues stated as being the reason for the nerf.</DIV>

Yama Seish

02-13-2005, 04:46 AM

I see where you are coming from, Gage, and I agree with your motivations behind approaching issues constructively and reminding others the repercussions of not doing so, namely, getting nowhere because the devs need good reasons, and not merely "I-don't-like-it"'s.That the developers think that speed of horses is too fast is clear. Ok, now, in what circumstances is this so? When in combat? When in travel-times? or both? Seems to me that there is no other relevant set of circumstances to apply here. Maybe I can be corrected here. If the problem is "in combat" situations, or even potential "combat", as it happens when cruising through danger-zones, then a solution would be to reduce the speed of horses whenever the player gets aggroed by a creature. Regardless of wether the encounter is "broken" by yelling or not, horses should slow down when a creature is aggroing on the player. One could even make it so that the horses slow down if the player is close enough to an aggro creature, but not yet aggroed. Fine. We can all live with that. Realistic? no, but games are not about realism (an entirely different bone to chew for another post.)Problem is with travel-times? ok, then I'd like to hear a good answer to this one. It may be the case that the devs feel this is a problem. Great, let's hear why and discuss the merits of such change. However, seems that this was not the original problem, or at least, I did not understand that to be the case. Again, I should be corrected here if I am wrong.It should not be that terribly difficult to address an issue like horse speed in combat situations. And if it is hard, then we should also get a response in this regard. Perhaps with the addendum of intentions to reverse travel-time "nerfing" once the combat issue can be satisfactorily resolved.About Pally/SK horses. I think that for a fluff spell, there is no room to complain. Now, if some want to claim that they should get some kind of special ability or spell that grants them a mount with adequate speed per level, then I am all for something like that. That's not the greatest issue here. Pally/Sks that feel shafted already and add this nerf to the list of grievances, should, in my opinion, focus on fixing what is wrong with their class other than a mere fluff spell. A lot of classes feel that they need improvement/balancing. It will always be so, but sometimes these claims are justified. Great, let's bring those on to the boards and discuss them like responsible folk.Peace.YamaP.S. About mitigation increase, I am with you, we'll see. Until monks are effective sponges of damage in a 360 radius around them I feel that we will always have some kind of handicap compared to heavy armor-wearing classes. Proposed solutions to this problem abound in the monk/bruiser boards, and this is obviously not the place to address that now. Thanks for your post and take care, all.

Gaige

02-13-2005, 05:17 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Yama Seishin wrote:<BR>I see where you are coming from, Gage, and I agree with your motivations behind approaching issues constructively and reminding others the repercussions of not doing so, namely, getting nowhere because the devs need good reasons, and not merely "I-don't-like-it"'s.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That is my point exactly. You have to assume in a game of this caliber that there is plenty going on behind the scenes, probably most of that is something the casual gamer (like myself) wouldn't understand. There is a certain amount of trust you have to grant the developers; you have to assume they have your best interest in mind. Sure people are going to say they don't, but I mean come on if they honestly try to [Removed for Content] off their player base then they have no jobs. </P> <P>The best way to get your issues addressed is to vocalize them and keep them noticeable in a <EM>constructive</EM> manner.</P> <P>The monk forum keeps an updated list of issues that everyone adds to, and that is all the thread is for. No bickering, no whining, no complaining. Just a constructive list of bugs and/or weird things with the class we don't understand or feel aren't working as intended. This makes it easy for Moorgard's team to browse the list and either quickly go "ok this is intended" "oh, we didn't know about this" etc etc.</P> <P>Moorgard even stopped by in the thread to let us know his team compiles forum information daily and relays it to the devs, so while people may claim its futile it isn't.</P> <P>Also remember patience is a virtue. Everything takes time. Some fixes are harder to program than others, some affect other issues with the game, some open up whole new scenarios.</P> <P>What I can guarantee you is that a constant negative doom saying attitude will not speed up the process, it will only help to hinder it.</P> <P>If you guys feel that the run speed shouldn't be changed, give them reasons why, actual constructive thought out reasons.</P> <P>I personally think that the SK/Pally speed decrease just was timed this way because it was easy for them to implement while reducing the rest of the horses. I'm pretty doubtful that SoE did it because people whined on the forum, that would be a bad precedent to set.</P> <P>That's my advice.</P> <P>I'm not gonna post in this thread anymore though, I'm pretty sure I've made my point. I know its hard to remain constructive (I struggle with that a lot) and easy to let your passion get the best of you. Just don't say things out of anger you'll regret, use your passion to help the devs make the game better.</P> <P>OT: Yeah I get to play games at work, heh. The WoW thing isn't all me though, my brother helped me lvl it a bit so I could PvP raid with his guild. I can't really love that game though, just not my thing. Its nice don't get me wrong, but its not for everyone.</P> <P><BR> </P> <p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>02-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:21 PM</span>

dadowar

02-13-2005, 05:30 AM

<DIV>I for one, want to applaud SOE, They are working hard to make EQ2 a great game thet we can enjoy for years to come. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Iit is a great gesture to allow players to obtain a refund. I will promptly use it to purchase the horse that runs at sprint speed. Do I have to have it? No, but I want it for prestige reasons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For my money, SOE has earned my respect as being a responsive company that understands how to please most of the people, most of the time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ2 is a great game. The people who complain and are threatening to go to WOW, have no appreciation for what SOE is doing to preserve our experience. The upcoming patch will hurt my tradeskill profits but I'll adjust accordingly. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Teache

02-13-2005, 08:40 AM

<DIV> Lol, Dad you are the guy who walks on a car lot and pays full price then tries to convince others you got a good deal. If your happy great, if you like the confines of the proposed patch great too. I for one don't want you to have a bad experiance, now we know your happy and we are happy for you, go back and play the game why waste time here? :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

LoofLirpa

02-13-2005, 08:50 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dadowar wrote:<BR> <DIV>I for one, want to applaud SOE, They are working hard to make EQ2 a great game thet we can enjoy for years to come. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Iit is a great gesture to allow players to obtain a refund. I will promptly use it to purchase the horse that runs at sprint speed. Do I have to have it? No, but I want it for prestige reasons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For my money, SOE has earned my respect as being a responsive company that understands how to please most of the people, most of the time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ2 is a great game. The people who complain and are threatening to go to WOW, have no appreciation for what SOE is doing to preserve our experience. The upcoming patch will hurt my tradeskill profits but I'll adjust accordingly. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I totally agree dadowor,</P> <P>This is truly an amazing game and SOE is doing everything they can to keep it that way for a long long time to come. I haven't been happy with everything they've done so far but I have come to the conclusion that it has been in the long term best interests of the game.....which inevitably is in our best interests.</P> <P>From what I've seen and read, SOE is concerned about how quickly people are progressing (beating the game). EQII has been out for a meezly three months and look at the number of lvl 50 players (adventurers and tradeskillers). The amount of money that some players have earned through tradeskills is outrageous. I don't think for a moment that SOE expected that after 3 months soooo many people would be able to buy 3p and 9p horses or that tier 2 players would be able to buy t5 20 slot boxes and yet there are soooo many of them available for a few gold. </P> <P>Bottom line is that its time for SOE to tune everything back and slow advancement down so we have a game in a year. If you don't want to buy a horse with 40% speed increase then don't buy it. Be glad that you have been able to take advantage of poor planning by SOE to have progressed as far as you have and are in a position to buy one. The newcomers will not have it as easy.....but then again....that was the way the game was originally inteded to be played.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Teache

02-13-2005, 09:21 AM

<DIV> Please pardon my confusion but again if your so happy and don't want to help the situation, then go play the game why are you here? unless you are a SOE employee, then ok say you are supporting your employer no worries. You can't be to happy if you are reading this area of the forums, sorry but I'm not buying it or letting go.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Gaige

02-13-2005, 10:06 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teacher1 wrote:<BR> <DIV> Please pardon my confusion but again if your so happy and don't want to help the situation, then go play the game why are you here? unless you are a SOE employee, then ok say you are supporting your employer no worries. You can't be to happy if you are reading this area of the forums, sorry but I'm not buying it or letting go.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I read the forums as I play. The forums aren't only for people who are unhappy.<BR>

LoofLirpa

02-13-2005, 10:48 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teacher1 wrote:<BR> <DIV> Please pardon my confusion but again if your so happy and don't want to help the situation, then go play the game why are you here? unless you are a SOE employee, then ok say you are supporting your employer no worries. You can't be to happy if you are reading this area of the forums, sorry but I'm not buying it or letting go.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Its my game too! I'm very interested in what others have to say. As much as you would like this to be a self-serving thread where only people who agree with your point of view post to....thats not the way it works so get over it.</FONT></DIV>

Vasxe

02-13-2005, 10:52 AM

<DIV>All i got to say is that being a Sk myself I think it is unfair to everyone if we SK/Pal are able to literally buy a mount for 14s and everyone else has to pay 2.5p for a low lvl mount that goes just as fast. Definately not fair. I think that brining the SK/Pal horse down to 10 was a little more fair, but everyone elses fluff spells should be adjusted to make them somewhat more benificial. I personally don't care about the speed of my unholly steed since i never became an SK to get the mount for speed. If they brought it down to 0 i still wouldnt care. I like the fluff spell since it helps promote the image of the SK/Pal. You know... riding into battle on a horse like a knight should do. The only complaint i have is that they should have armor on them that looks menacing or at least breath smoke out its nostrils. I'll take that for zero speed any day. Now as far as the reduction in the mount speed for everyone else i feel your pain. But at least you guys will be able to trade in your mounts and hopefully for the full price that you paid. It would only be fair. I'm sure there is a good reason why they reduced the speeds that we dont know about. Everyone here is so focused on the speed of their horse being reduced that we might not be seeing the whole picture. And i would have to believe that the devs are trying to do the right thing but sometimes that picture maybe too big for them and they might be overseeing something. Hence the updates. I just have to put my faith in them for now to make the right decissions. There is never going to be a perfect game that makes everyone happy. There is just too many of us to please. </DIV>

dadowar

02-13-2005, 05:15 PM

<DIV>Teacher, you are not the brightest bulb on the tree. I read forum messages for strategic reasons so that I can prepare for the changes. For instance as a 37 provisioner, I will spend every moment I can crafting all my food and drink items. Doing so will save me the expense of higher fuel costs. I will also do writ after writ to gain status points and the 4g 32s and 5g 76s while I still can. Without reading the forums I would not have been able to do this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Additonally, servers do go down every day. I use that time to read forums. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I am work, I can't play the game, but at lunch time I read the forums and plot my next goals and objectives.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your response to my email is strange. I am not trying to convince people that I got a good deal on my horse. I said I will return mine promptly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A mind is a terrible thing to waste..............</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is game. It doesn't have to be perfect.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enjoy the experience, or quit.</DIV>

Teache

02-13-2005, 06:25 PM

<DIV>It seems once again I'm outwitted by a superior intellect, what I'm saying is, you are not supportive of those who have an issue. I called SOE and spoke with cs and asked to speak with a supervisor who refused to to talk. The cs told me to voice my complaints here so hence my presence on this forum. I don't have a horse or the coin to get one and now thanks to your enlightment it may seem I lack the intelligence or skill to ever obtain one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me this is a matter of principal and simple ecomonics, if you went to a fast food resturant and ordered a hamburger, fries and a coke then sat down and began eating, after a few bites an employee comes over and replaces your burger with a salad, no explaination or anything. At this point you would be upset, you demand an explanation, you want your burger back. Now I'm standing there and witness this situation and speak up on your behalf, but another guy comes up and starts telling you and me that the salad is good, we shouldn't complain, the employees know what they are doing. Nevermind the fact that they let still eat the fries and drink the soda. I shouldn't have to explain to the devs why I want horses left alone, they should have to explain to us why they are changing them and not adressing class issues and other reported problems. It seems to me they come in and see what is not broken and think of a way fix it, rather than take peoples posts that need real fixes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you cant support an issue please dont go against it, is my point here, it makes the devs think we are devided on an issue. I think if you are at these boards looking for updates that is good, I did the same myself, thats how I know I let Gage down by not supporting his issue on agility, we all know that change was for the better.......not. Anyway thanks for letting me know that I'm not to bright at least it keeps the issue up front, Thanks Dad:smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ingnorance is bliss, the problem is who is more blissful. </DIV>

Grumpy_Warrior_01

02-13-2005, 07:26 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dadowar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Teacher, you are not the brightest bulb on the tree.. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This comment made my morning :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Sentari

02-13-2005, 07:35 PM

<blockquote><hr>Kylania wrote:That is EXACTLY why horses are being nerfed, thanks for pointing it out. Horses weren't being used as a travel method, but were being used as a "get away without sprinting" method by players. That was never intended.<hr></blockquote>Err Kylania, you know horses do kinda run faster than you sprinting. I hate to break it to you :<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Naughtesn

02-13-2005, 08:11 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dankster wrote:<BR> <DIV>To the imaginary entity at SoE,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Speed up mobs, leave horses alone. Many of us were using horses mostly to get from point A to B. I don't like the fact that you are <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>extending my travel time</STRONG></FONT>, when already I think we move like snails with or without a horse.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>People have stated that running away from mobs was the reason for the nerf - I firmly believe the increasing the time sink (and money sink) is the primary goal.

Teache

02-13-2005, 08:12 PM

<DIV>Hey I'm going to keep trying to raise the level of customer service, this is their product and they have to answer for it. Next they will nerf dragons as they give an unfair advantage in room decrorating. You non supporters need to smell what your shoveling.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Grumpy_Warrior_01

02-13-2005, 08:15 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Naughtesnec wrote:</P> <P>People have stated that running away from mobs was the reason for the nerf - I firmly believe the increasing the time sink (and money sink) is the primary goal. </P> <P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Moorgard Wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Mounts and Run-Speed Buffs</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In Live Update #3 we will be decreasing the speed buffs given by mounts. Run-speed enhancements, especially at the entry level, should provide a way to travel faster, not act as a means to avoid every potential battle.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=5736&page=1" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=5736&page=1</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

Teache

02-13-2005, 08:32 PM

<DIV>Grumpy do you believe everything you read, following that theory then scouts better watch out no more evac. Naughte is most likely right they are scrambling to slow the game down, double xp doesnt really appear to be double, actually it appears to be less than the original xp. I think the devs didnt plan for the bulk of the player base to reach the upper levels in 3 months time. If any of us are wrong in our theories and speculations a dev or moderator could step in here and say something, anything, did you ever think about that?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Naughte I think your right on the money, its slow down time at EQ2.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Eliar

02-13-2005, 09:40 PM

<DIV>Someday the devs are going to learn that when they put a game out it is better to have the XP gain slower than what they predict is necessry. It is much easier on the playerbase to raise the xp gain if they have it set too low than to lower it because people are leveling too quickly.</DIV>

synome

02-13-2005, 11:38 PM

I just want to add one thing to topic. As gauge is bringing up with his thoughts over and over a SK/Pal should have had 0% speed buff as intended. Who would even bother with this? What would be the point of riding a horse that moved the same speed as walking and then having to recast it EVERYTIME you enter another zone. It is very possible to die on a horse it can happen just as easily as sprinting away if you started the encounter. It seems one of the main arguments here which, at first, seems to be valid is that you can run past a mob on a horse and choose not to encounter. The reason I don't see this unbalancing or as a problem is that for instance a wizard can run by that same mob while invisible and not be at any risk, a scout can hide and do the same. So then those of you who have been in combat while mounted know that it is just as easy to get killed as is sprinting if you --initiated-- the fight or choose to accept the encounter. So where then is the point in this speed decrease? Besides jealousy of those who have it. I'm jealous of a wizard being able to cast invisability "nerf them" that's about as stupid as it sounds. I don't understand the people that constantly whine about things like this. Personally I don't care, I'll likely rarely use my mount when this goes into place though. Seems like with a 10% increase for a horse a higher level mob will catch and kill you 100% of the time unless they make sprint work for a horse, so it wouldn't even be useful anymore as transportation for high aggro areas. That is by the way what I use it for, I don't like the look of fighting on a horse. Don't confuse what I'm saying here I'm trying to point out the difference while mounted between risk on a fight you initiated (which I believe is the same as sprinting from my experience) and an encounter you just run by which the risk is far less but not by any means any less than abilities others have.

Gaige

02-14-2005, 12:30 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> synome wrote:<BR>I just want to add one thing to topic. As gauge is bringing up with his thoughts over and over a SK/Pal should have had 0% speed buff as intended. Who would even bother with this? What would be the point of riding a horse that moved the same speed as walking and then having to recast it EVERYTIME you enter another zone. It is very possible to die on a horse it can happen just as easily as sprinting away if you started the encounter. <BR><BR>It seems one of the main arguments here which, at first, seems to be valid is that you can run past a mob on a horse and choose not to encounter. The reason I don't see this unbalancing or as a problem is that for instance a wizard can run by that same mob while invisible and not be at any risk, a scout can hide and do the same. So then those of you who have been in combat while mounted know that it is just as easy to get killed as is sprinting if you --initiated-- the fight or choose to accept the encounter. <BR><BR>So where then is the point in this speed decrease? Besides jealousy of those who have it. <FONT color=#ffff00>I'm jealous of a wizard being able to cast invisability "nerf them" that's about as stupid as it sounds.</FONT> I don't understand the people that constantly whine about things like this. Personally I don't care, I'll likely rarely use my mount when this goes into place though. Seems like with a 10% increase for a horse a higher level mob will catch and kill you 100% of the time unless they make sprint work for a horse, so it wouldn't even be useful anymore as transportation for high aggro areas. That is by the way what I use it for, I don't like the look of fighting on a horse. <BR><BR>Don't confuse what I'm saying here I'm trying to point out the difference while mounted between risk on a fight you initiated (which I believe is the same as sprinting from my experience) and an encounter you just run by which the risk is far less but not by any means any less than abilities others have.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>[Removed for Content] with the apples to oranges comparisons today.</P> <P>Some classes get skills (not fluff) designed to help them avoid mobs or keep the group safe from harm. To compare your fluff horse to an actual intended skill is [FaarNerfed!], please don't do it. Compare it to other fluff spells, that makes a lot more sense.</P> <P>The fluff spell is a "fun" spell, something to add variety to your class. Its just there to be there, a gift from SoE. In the crusader's case its designed to look like a horse, because players say "how can we be a knight, without a horse?" SoE thought that was valid and voila, a 14s "horse" for the crusader classes so they "look" like knights. But that is where the intention of design stopped.</P> <P>The fact that you benefited from a bug for so long should just be let go, as well as the fact that you STILL get a 10% boost.</P> <P>I don't understand why its so hard to understand. Be thankful that you had the unintentional speed for so long and then continue to be grateful that its keeping a boost instead of losing it.</P> <P>The point of having a horse that is the same speed as running is because OMG it looks like a horse so you look like real knights. Go figure. If you feel the need to have a horse that runs faster, save up your plat and buy it, just like everyone else.</P> <P>If you want to be invisible, roll a class with the spell. Hell I want to be able to do lots of things, but my class doesn't get those spells. Go figure.<BR></P>

Astrlidia

02-14-2005, 12:57 AM

<DIV>Sorry, I have to diagree here on speed spells. First off, the sow spell druid/shman gets is not as fast as the one in eq. To me, it's like running at half sprint speed for 15mins. The first time I got this spell, I was so excited, until I casted it. The disappointment was the let down. I still have to use sprint to get away from mobs too powerful for my toons with this ability, with sow enabled. It still takes me the same amount of time to go from south gate to north gate Qeynos, and i'm not encumbered, nor stopping to fight something. To me, it has the same speed as the pathfinder spell, so all you whiners of the horse being nerfed, I feel your pain, but feel our pain of the sow/pathfinder users<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Astrlidia

02-14-2005, 12:58 AM

<DIV>Sorry, I have to diagree here on speed spells. First off, the sow spell druid/shman gets is not as fast as the one in eq. To me, it's like running at half sprint speed for 15mins. The first time I got this spell, I was so excited, until I casted it. The disappointment was the let down. I still have to use sprint to get away from mobs too powerful for my toons with this ability, with sow enabled. It still takes me the same amount of time to go from south gate to north gate Qeynos, and i'm not encumbered, nor stopping to fight something. To me, it has the same speed as the pathfinder spell, so all you crybabies of the horse being nerfed, I feel your pain, but feel our pain of the sow/pathfinder users<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Grumpy_Warrior_01

02-14-2005, 01:05 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> First, Teacher1 wrote, regarding developer posts:<BR> <DIV>Grumpy do you believe everything you read,<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Later, in the same paragraph, Teacher1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>If any of us are wrong in our theories and speculations a dev or moderator could step in here and say something, anything, did you ever think about that?</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>/boggle</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Gaige

02-14-2005, 01:06 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> First, Teacher1 wrote, regarding developer posts:<BR> <DIV>Grumpy do you believe everything you read,<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Later, in the same paragraph, Teacher1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>If any of us are wrong in our theories and speculations a dev or moderator could step in here and say something, anything, did you ever think about that?</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>/boggle</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe the devs only tell the truth if they agree with him?<BR>

synome

02-14-2005, 01:08 AM

<blockquote><hr>Gage-Mikel wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>synome wrote:I just want to add one thing to topic. As gauge is bringing up with his thoughts over and over a SK/Pal should have had 0% speed buff as intended. Who would even bother with this? What would be the point of riding a horse that moved the same speed as walking and then having to recast it EVERYTIME you enter another zone. It is very possible to die on a horse it can happen just as easily as sprinting away if you started the encounter. It seems one of the main arguments here which, at first, seems to be valid is that you can run past a mob on a horse and choose not to encounter. The reason I don't see this unbalancing or as a problem is that for instance a wizard can run by that same mob while invisible and not be at any risk, a scout can hide and do the same. So then those of you who have been in combat while mounted know that it is just as easy to get killed as is sprinting if you --initiated-- the fight or choose to accept the encounter. So where then is the point in this speed decrease? Besides jealousy of those who have it. <FONT color=#ffff00>I'm jealous of a wizard being able to cast invisability "nerf them" that's about as stupid as it sounds.</FONT> I don't understand the people that constantly whine about things like this. Personally I don't care, I'll likely rarely use my mount when this goes into place though. Seems like with a 10% increase for a horse a higher level mob will catch and kill you 100% of the time unless they make sprint work for a horse, so it wouldn't even be useful anymore as transportation for high aggro areas. That is by the way what I use it for, I don't like the look of fighting on a horse. Don't confuse what I'm saying here I'm trying to point out the difference while mounted between risk on a fight you initiated (which I believe is the same as sprinting from my experience) and an encounter you just run by which the risk is far less but not by any means any less than abilities others have.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>[Removed for Content] with the apples to oranges comparisons today.</P><P>Some classes get skills (not fluff) designed to help them avoid mobs or keep the group safe from harm. To compare your fluff horse to an actual intended skill is [FaarNerfed!], please don't do it. Compare it to other fluff spells, that makes a lot more sense.</P><P>The fluff spell is a "fun" spell, something to add variety to your class. Its just there to be there, a gift from SoE. In the crusader's case its designed to look like a horse, because players say "how can we be a knight, without a horse?" SoE thought that was valid and voila, a 14s "horse" for the crusader classes so they "look" like knights. But that is where the intention of design stopped.</P><P>The fact that you benefited from a bug for so long should just be let go, as well as the fact that you STILL get a 10% boost.</P><P>I don't understand why its so hard to understand. Be thankful that you had the unintentional speed for so long and then continue to be grateful that its keeping a boost instead of losing it.</P><P>The point of having a horse that is the same speed as running is because OMG it looks like a horse so you look like real knights. Go figure. If you feel the need to have a horse that runs faster, save up your plat and buy it, just like everyone else.</P><P>If you want to be invisible, roll a class with the spell. Hell I want to be able to do lots of things, but my class doesn't get those spells. Go figure.</P><hr></blockquote>Obviously can't be logical with some people. I thought you just wanted to "understand" why people think the opposite of what you do. Looks like understanding is not something you will be able to do in this case or want to do. This is not comparing apples to oranges it is simply just tearing apart the whine that some people seem to have that "it's not fair that you can get past a mob without it killing you." I just tried to point out that this is done on a regular basis and that if "apples to apples" if one spell or ability can do it then why is it wrong for a horse to be able to do the same? I fail to see how this unbalances or breaks the game if it is done already and with those abilities it is much easier to run past. I don't literally think I should be able to be invisible I like a lot of abilities of other classes but your taking it literally gives me a good idea of how you think. I don't guess you will understand. With this mode of thinking I'm not surprised you also thought I posted this simply because I thought I was entitled to this as a SK. Must have missed the part where I said I really don't care. Personally I don't care about how my SK looks and I would have never been one to even say that SKs should be entitled to a horse to look like a knight. The only point I had about the SK/Pal fluff spell is that if it were 0% it wouldn't even be worth a fluff and if it were 10% in most areas it would still be worthless as you would be completely unable to escape a mob, chances would be better on foot as you can sprint faster than that. The rest of my post where for mounts in general, guess I just don't see the point of the reduced speeds. I think the system works fine as it is and I was trying to bolster the other side of the argument. Furthemore I think that those who paid for their mounts should get a full refund. There is really no need to flame someone for presenting a point of view that you don't agree with, it seems to happen all the time on these forums. I didn't flame you just presented an opposing view.I'm not trying to get anyone to agree with me. Just maybe understand why some people don't feel the same way instead of riddiculing them for their opinion.<p>Message Edited by synome on <span class=date_text>02-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:12 PM</span>

Gaige

02-14-2005, 01:53 AM

<DIV>I understand. I really don't feel the horses need to have their run speed nerfed either. But I'm not a game designer.</DIV>

Teache

02-14-2005, 03:36 AM

<DIV>I think I understand now, you are afraid, you have achieved level 50 quickly, but at the current rate the bulk of the player base is coming on in levels, you want to slow us down by pointing out the exploits and such that you have already used. Boggle is right we don't even understand what we are missing but you do....:smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What a mess .... conclusion there is no game for the casual gamer, powergamers screw up everthing by racing through and then smother the masses by pointing out the exploits so they remain elite. News flash Gage no expansion for this game is due out till fall, by that time your just another level 50. Pathetic, hey have a great day.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Gaige

02-14-2005, 04:02 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teacher1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think I understand now, you are afraid, you have achieved level 50 quickly, but at the current rate the bulk of the player base is coming on in levels, you want to slow us down by pointing out the exploits and such that you have already used. Boggle is right we don't even understand what we are missing but you do....:smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What a mess .... conclusion there is no game for the casual gamer, powergamers screw up everthing by racing through and then smother the masses by pointing out the exploits so they remain elite. News flash Gage no expansion for this game is due out till fall, by that time your just another level 50. Pathetic, hey have a great day.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>HAHAHAHAHA.</P> <P>You are so uninformed and assuming, its quite funny.</P> <P>1) The expansion is due out in May or there abouts.</P> <P>2) It'd be better if everyone was level 50, because then raiding would be so much easier. In fact I play my alt mainly waiting for my guildmates to catch up.</P> <P>I'm not trying to be "elite". I played beta so I knew how to get the first 20 levels done quickly, and I had tried most the quests so I knew which ones I wanted to do. By getting 20 fairly quickly I had jumped to the otherside of the gap from casual gaming to power gaming in this game, so my groups mainly consisted of camping xp grinds. Oh well, I have a lot of play time anyway, as I've stated I play at work.</P> <P>Its funny that you continue to bring up my level, when I rarely even talk about it. Its not in my sig, its not in some bright neon. I only talk about it when it serves a purpose. Getting to lvl 50 in this game takes one thing: time. It doesn't take skill, it doesn't take strategy, it takes time.</P> <P>So while I find your flames humorous, perhaps you should try to not let your jealousy out so easily. I'm sorry you aren't lvl 50 yet, you can play Gage if it'll make you feel better; lvl 50 is pretty boring unless you are raiding anyway.</P> <P>As for me trying to point out exploits (of course, why wouldn't I?) and "smother the casual player" "so I can remain elite".</P> <P>Oh please, you don't even know me. I help out so many casual, new players. Have you ever spoken to me in game, have you ever pm'd me a question? No. You don't know me, you just resort to flames about post count and my level because you don't have anything intelligent to add.</P> <P>I post in response to these whines to try to convince people to be rational and quit acting like little kids. </P> <P>If you don't like it or agree, fine. But post an intelligent reason why, don't be like everyone else and resort to lame flames about my level or whatever; try to be original and intelligent.<BR></P>

Dread Invict

02-14-2005, 04:48 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> synome wrote:<BR>I just want to add one thing to topic. As gauge is bringing up with his thoughts over and over a SK/Pal should have had 0% speed buff as intended. Who would even bother with this? What would be the point of riding a horse that moved the same speed as walking and then having to recast it EVERYTIME you enter another zone. It is very possible to die on a horse it can happen just as easily as sprinting away if you started the encounter. <BR><BR>It seems one of the main arguments here which, at first, seems to be valid is that you can run past a mob on a horse and choose not to encounter. The reason I don't see this unbalancing or as a problem is that for instance a wizard can run by that same mob while invisible and not be at any risk, a scout can hide and do the same. So then those of you who have been in combat while mounted know that it is just as easy to get killed as is sprinting if you --initiated-- the fight or choose to accept the encounter. <BR><BR>So where then is the point in this speed decrease? Besides jealousy of those who have it. <FONT color=#ffff00>I'm jealous of a wizard being able to cast invisability "nerf them" that's about as stupid as it sounds.</FONT> I don't understand the people that constantly whine about things like this. Personally I don't care, I'll likely rarely use my mount when this goes into place though. Seems like with a 10% increase for a horse a higher level mob will catch and kill you 100% of the time unless they make sprint work for a horse, so it wouldn't even be useful anymore as transportation for high aggro areas. That is by the way what I use it for, I don't like the look of fighting on a horse. <BR><BR>Don't confuse what I'm saying here I'm trying to point out the difference while mounted between risk on a fight you initiated (which I believe is the same as sprinting from my experience) and an encounter you just run by which the risk is far less but not by any means any less than abilities others have.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>[Removed for Content] with the apples to oranges comparisons today.</P> <P>Some classes get skills (not fluff) designed to help them avoid mobs or keep the group safe from harm. To compare your fluff horse to an actual intended skill is [FaarNerfed!], please don't do it. Compare it to other fluff spells, that makes a lot more sense.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>The fluff spell is a "fun" spell, something to add variety to your class. Its just there to be there, a gift from SoE. In the crusader's case its designed to look like a horse, because players say "how can we be a knight, without a horse?" SoE thought that was valid and voila, a 14s "horse" for the crusader classes so they "look" like knights. But that is where the intention of design stopped.</FONT></P> <P>The fact that you benefited from a bug for so long should just be let go, as well as the fact that you STILL get a 10% boost.</P> <P>I don't understand why its so hard to understand. Be thankful that you had the unintentional speed for so long and then continue to be grateful that its keeping a boost instead of losing it.</P> <P>The point of having a horse that is the same speed as running is because OMG it looks like a horse so you look like real knights. Go figure. If you feel the need to have a horse that runs faster, save up your plat and buy it, just like everyone else.</P> <P>If you want to be invisible, roll a class with the spell. Hell I want to be able to do lots of things, but my class doesn't get those spells. Go figure.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Gage,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No argument that the spell was intended to be a fluff spell, and I am thankfull that it has been bugged up until this point. But If that was its sole intention then its design was flawed form the begining. </DIV>

Gaige

02-14-2005, 05:25 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Gage,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No argument that the spell was intended to be a fluff spell, and I am thankfull that it has been bugged up until this point. <FONT color=#ffff00>But If that was its sole intention then its design was flawed form the begining. </FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That could very likely be true.<BR>

Teache

02-14-2005, 10:02 AM

<DIV>Lol, Gage you make me laugh, but you helped pass the time away while I got up the coins for a horse. Now I still cant see anything over powering or game altering if anything its harder to disengage from a fight while on a horse, ended up still having my wife hit evac to keep from dieing. I guess I'm no further informed as to why the nerf. As for the rest, not worth the key strokes.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Gaige

02-14-2005, 10:08 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teacher1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Lol, Gage you make me laugh, but you helped pass the time away while I got up the coins for a horse. Now I still cant see anything over powering or game altering if anything its harder to disengage from a fight while on a horse, ended up still having my wife hit evac to keep from dieing. <FONT color=#ffff00>I guess I'm no further informed as to why the nerf.</FONT> As for the rest, not worth the key strokes.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG>Mounts and Run-Speed Buffs</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In Live Update #3 we will be decreasing the speed buffs given by mounts. <FONT color=#ffff00>Run-speed enhancements, especially at the entry level, should provide a way to travel faster, not act as a means to avoid every potential battle.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The changes to run-speed enhancements will be as follows:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Starter Mounts (2.5pp) - 24%, formerly 32%<BR>Standard Mounts (5pp) - 32%, formerly 40%<BR>Best Non Status Mount (8.2pp) - 40%, formerly 48%<BR>Flying Carpets/Undead Mounts (50pp and status) - 48%, formerly 56%<BR>Totem buff - 24% with a 30 minute duration, formerly 40%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The biggest change, however, will be to paladin and shadowknight mounts that are granted as one of their entertainment spells. The original intent was for the spells to grant a horse with no run-speed buff at all. The fact that there was a significant speed boost was an error on our part, and while we regret making a drastic change to an existing spell, in fairness to other classes we feel this is the best approach.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crusader mounts are currently a 32% buff, which will be reduced to 10% (the same speed as Journeyman's Boots). While still giving a benefit, the horse will provide a relatively minor enhancement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There have been numerous requests to increase the speed buff provided by Legendary Jboots. However, since the Jboot effect stacks with other run-speed buffs and the boots themselves provide nice stats, we have decided to leave the boots as is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We realize this change won't be a popular one, but we feel it is better for the game that we make it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> <BR></DIV> <DIV>Now you know why.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can choose to disagree with the reason, but at least you know.</DIV>

Teache

02-14-2005, 06:15 PM

<DIV>Good Morning Gage, I do appreciate your opinion, now if you were a dev or some how had some control over the game I would appreciate it alot more. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

gridlock

02-14-2005, 06:27 PM

<DIV>I thought EQ2 was now a Solo'ers game now so why does everyone care what everyone else is doing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After this latest [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] change is over and the dust settles, it will be some other lame [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] change or lack of change making everyone cry...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>These official boards are so far from usefull its not even funny</STRONG>. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your all a bunch of crybabies and Its so tiring.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Teache

02-14-2005, 08:15 PM

<DIV>Good job Grid, speak and be heard is better than remaining silent and wishing had said something.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Shagittari

02-14-2005, 09:28 PM

<DIV>It's better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone think your an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.</DIV>

Vamperion

02-14-2005, 09:38 PM

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>I think that people have a right to complain on the boards, however threatning to quit is just funny, this game has over 500,000 players, go head an quit if you want, your 15 bucks wont make a difference, a matter afact you will prolly save SOE money because it will cut down on the amount of bandwith it takes to post crybabies messages</FONT></DIV>

Shagittari

02-14-2005, 09:46 PM

<DIV>Even though I agree that you shouldn't be compairing a fluff spell (pally horse) to a regular spell (invisibility) I also wanted to point out how invisibility is inferior to the horse that pallys get at level 20.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did you know that without upgrades and creature 2 levels higher than you will see through invis? Yup, so if your horse dropped as soon as you agro'd a mob 2 levels higher than you that would be fair huh? Once you get Adpet 1 then you can only be seen by creatures 3 levels higher + than you. I'm sure all pallys have ridden through a whole encounter of red mobs, I've seen em do it many times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not enough? Ok how about this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No matter what level invis you have there are mobs that will always 'See Invis' meaning that you can never get past them. Guess what the pally just rides on by not even noticing that this mob was there for balance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys can complain as much as you want, but this change was needed.</DIV>

Vanion Vilesilenc

02-14-2005, 10:10 PM

<DIV>how do you know that this is why they are getting nerfed ?</DIV>

Vamperion

02-14-2005, 10:25 PM

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>I agree - stop complaining horse people, just face it</FONT></DIV>

Fallnangel

02-14-2005, 11:19 PM

<DIV>First let me preface this message by saying that I am a Ranger, not a Pally/SK. I do not have an alt that is either of those either nor do I plan to start a character based on the fighter line. That being said, I can't believe that because of a bunch of whiney people who are so jealous of another person's luck, they have to mess the game up for everyone else. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I happen to like that Pallys have horses. My pally husband has saved not only my butt numerous times, but the lives of many others, a lot not even in our party. He does not mind pulling a mob off of someone running for their lives and sprinting away on his horse so the other person can get safely away. Plus, at times it's the only way we can explore some new areas....he runs for his life with trains chasing him, while I am able to sneak past. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, I'm jealous of him having a horse and the fact that horses are so overpriced that it will take me MANY months to save for one (not to mention wiping myself out completely when (or if now) I buy one. Yes, running along beside or behind him is annoying. But he chose that character and I chose mine. I don't think that his should be penalized for what it is. In fact, by having that horse speed, he is playing his character AS INTENDED. The noble character who takes it all for the group. And I would NEVER has wanted him to be penalized just because I, or others, am envious of this buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I for one, feel that you should leave things alone and not mess it up for the Pallys/SK's. It's not fair to allow people to be able to play one way and then suddenly change things for the worst. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alateriel</DIV> <DIV>Wood Elf Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Lavastorm</DIV>

Shagittari

02-14-2005, 11:43 PM

<DIV>Fallnangel you just pointed out in your post how the horse unbalances the game and why it needs to be fixed. Your not meant to get to places you cant get to otherwise using the horse. </DIV>

Gaige

02-14-2005, 11:57 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teacher1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Good Morning Gage, I do appreciate your opinion, now if you were a dev or some how had some control over the game I would appreciate it alot more. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Your appreciation isn't required. </P> <P>By the way the link is from Moorgard, and he is about as close to a dev's opinion as you will get.<BR></P>

Gaige

02-15-2005, 12:02 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fallnangel13 wrote:<BR> <DIV>First let me preface this message by saying that I am a Ranger, not a Pally/SK. I do not have an alt that is either of those either nor do I plan to start a character based on the fighter line. That being said, I can't believe that because of a bunch of whiney people who are so jealous of another person's luck, they have to mess the game up for everyone else. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I happen to like that Pallys have horses. My pally husband has saved not only my butt numerous times, but the lives of many others, a lot not even in our party. <FONT color=#ff0000>He does not mind pulling a mob off of someone running for their lives and sprinting away on his horse so the other person can get safely away. </FONT>Plus, <FONT color=#ff0000>at times it's the only way we can explore some new areas....he runs for his life with trains chasing him, while I am able to sneak past. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, I'm jealous of him having a horse and the fact that horses are so overpriced that it will take me MANY months to save for one (not to mention wiping myself out completely when (or if now) I buy one. Yes, running along beside or behind him is annoying. But he chose that character and I chose mine. I don't think that his should be penalized for what it is. <FONT color=#ff0000> In fact, by having that horse speed, he is playing his character AS INTENDED. </FONT> The noble character who takes it all for the group. And I would NEVER has wanted him to be penalized just because I, or others, am envious of this buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I for one, feel that you should leave things alone and not mess it up for the Pallys/SK's. <FONT color=#ffff00> It's not fair to allow people to be able to play one way and then suddenly change things for the worst. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alateriel</DIV> <DIV>Wood Elf Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Lavastorm</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>MMOs, like life, are not fair. This isn't a change for the worst, its a fix. In fact I find these statements highlighted in red 100% humorous since they are the reason its getting changed haha.</P> <P>In fact, by playing his class with horse speed, it wasn't as intended at all, since the horse speed was a bug.</P> <P>You coming in here and refuting the nerf while at the same time posting the things he did that the dev team feel are unwanted in the current gameplay is so ironic its not even funny.</P> <P>At least the other anti-nerf people claimed their horse didn't enable them to train zones and outrun mobs, you proclaim how good it was at it. :smileyindifferent:</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

Savara

02-15-2005, 02:04 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>MMOs, like life, are not fair. This isn't a change for the worst, its a fix. <FONT color=#ff3300>In fact I find these statements highlighted in red 100% humorous since they are the reason its getting changed haha.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In fact, by playing his class with horse speed, it wasn't as intended at all, since the horse speed was a bug.</P> <P>You coming in here and refuting the nerf while at the same time posting the things he did that the dev team feel are unwanted in the current gameplay is so ironic its not even funny.</P> <P>At least the other anti-nerf people claimed their horse didn't enable them to train zones and outrun mobs, you proclaim how good it was at it. </P> <P> </P> <P>The fact that you made this statement reinforces the fact that you are miserable about your agi Nerf and came here to find company.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Teache

02-15-2005, 02:55 AM

<DIV>I'm going to post because I can, I pay my money just like anyone else, thank you and have a nice day.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Dread Invict

02-15-2005, 03:43 AM

<DIV> <P>I play a level 31 SK. Nerfing the horses just does not hold any water, all it does is slow travel and hence slow the game down(who knows this might be what the devs are looking to do). Most people have spend weeks even months to get a horse, your hurting those that work hard for what they have and are your best customers. </P> <P>Nerfing the Pal/SK horse has a bit more validity when compared to SOEs original design. I think that design was flawed from the beginning. Crusaders are a mounted class that are given a special ability to summon a horse (to offer the look of a knight). With that we should get a movement buff. But 10% lets be rational, horses will always be faster than any sprinting humanoid. The whole point of having a horse in this game, any other game, or life for that mater is to gain a movement advantage. If you are going to have knights in the game they should get the best horses. SOE never intended Crusaders to get a spell that gave an advantage. The only thing it lets us do is cross a zone faster and run away from encounters. Considering that there are a lot of skills for both SK <U><FONT color=#0000ff><http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=5222></U></FONT>and Pal (<U><FONT color=#0000ff><http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=5174></U></FONT> that dont currently work, SOE is just kicking dust in our face by not enabling us to run away form encounters we are under prepared to handle in the first place. Here is a solution that will take you to put more thought into it VS. taking the easy rout. </P> <P>1. Make the horses a quest reward for crusaders. </P> <P>2. Give one every 10 levels that has a faster speed rate. </P> <P>3. Make the level 50 crusader horse the fastest in the game. </P> <P>SOE has a history of nerfing player classes and some are justified. Though on this one I think they are wrong. Leave the horses where they are SOE, give knights the horses they should have and rethink the way you treat paying customers who have worked long and hard for there plat to gain an advantage. Your just hurting your customer base and punishing those that spend the most time on you game. </P></DIV>

Gaige

02-15-2005, 04:09 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>I play a level 31 SK. Nerfing the horses just does not hold any water, all it does is slow travel and hence slow the game down(who knows this might be what the devs are looking to do). Most people have spend weeks even months to get a horse, your hurting those that work hard for what they have and are your best customers.</P> <P>Nerfing the Pal/SK horse has a bit more validity when compared to SOEs original design. I think that design was flawed from the beginning. Crusaders are a mounted class that are given a special ability to summon a horse (to offer the look of a knight). With that we should get a movement buff. But 10% lets be rational, horses will always be faster than any sprinting humanoid. The whole point of having a horse in this game, any other game, or life for that mater is to gain a movement advantage. If you are going to have knights in the game they should get the best horses. SOE never intended Crusaders to get a spell that gave an advantage. The only thing it lets us do is cross a zone faster and run away from encounters. Considering that there are a lot of skills for both SK <U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U>and Pal (<U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U> that dont currently work, SOE is just kicking dust in our face by not enabling us to run away form encounters we are under prepared to handle in the first place. Here is a solution that will take you to put more thought into it VS. taking the easy rout.</P> <P>1. Make the horses a quest reward for crusaders.</P> <P>2. Give one every 10 levels that has a faster speed rate.</P> <P>3. Make the level 50 crusader horse the fastest in the game.</P> <P>SOE has a history of nerfing player classes and some are justified. Though on this one I think they are wrong. Leave the horses where they are SOE, give knights the horses they should have and rethink the way you treat paying customers who have worked long and hard for there plat to gain an advantage. Your just hurting your customer base and punishing those that spend the most time on you game.</P></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think your entire arguement is unfounded.</P> <P>1) I have an active SWG account, and active EQ2 account and I pay for EQ2 players. I have over 50 days PLAYED on my two accounts. I invest TONS of time into this game and I feel like I'm a good SoE customer. That said I don't even have a horse, so you are exaggerating a lot by saying "hurting your customer base and punishing those that spend the most time on your game", etc etc.</P> <P>2) I see no reason in the way Pally/SK was designed or implemented to believe they should have not only the fastest horse in the game but a run speed enhancement at all.</P> <P>You also make yourself look foolish by trying to keep something that was unintended because your other abilities are broken. "running away blah blah". Get your class fixed, don't try to keep an unintended bug to make up for it. Wouldn't you prefer a working class over a horse you can buy anyway?</P>

Joeble

02-15-2005, 04:45 AM

<DIV>Well, I'm not entirely sure I understand the sense of outrage here, basically they are fixing speeds throughout the game and horses are part of that. You guys were upset about it, and the devs responded with allowing you to sell your horse back. Pretty sweet deal in my mind. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And anyone really screaming about your fluff spell horse being "nerfed" or "fixed", look at the other fluff spells that classes got. As a Bard, I got a spell that can make other people dance for like 10 seconds and spews pretty rainbow colors. Exactly what I expected from a fun fluff spell. Not a horse that helps me by going faster than normal. Say what you want, but the horse was a pretty sweet deal all in all. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There have been and will be many changes to the game over the lifespan of it, especially now since it is still a new game and things need balancing once the devs realize that certain things in the game are not running the way they imagined them to. I thought it was a good point by someone earlier that SOE had no idea people would be advancing and making money so fast, so I expect there will be many changes in the coming months to fix that. And I'm betting on lots of screaming about it too :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like reading the forums and think everyone should be able to voice their opinions, I guess I'm just a little surprised at how much bickering there is back and forth...sure both sides are upset in some way, but is it not possible to have a back and forth thread without all the name calling and such? Certainly the devs would probably take more interest if so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Joeble</DIV>

Dread Invict

02-15-2005, 05:40 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>I play a level 31 SK. Nerfing the horses just does not hold any water, all it does is slow travel and hence slow the game down(who knows this might be what the devs are looking to do). Most people have spend weeks even months to get a horse, your hurting those that work hard for what they have and are your best customers.</P> <P>Nerfing the Pal/SK horse has a bit more validity when compared to SOEs original design. I think that design was flawed from the beginning. Crusaders are a mounted class that are given a special ability to summon a horse (to offer the look of a knight). With that we should get a movement buff. But 10% lets be rational, horses will always be faster than any sprinting humanoid. The whole point of having a horse in this game, any other game, or life for that mater is to gain a movement advantage. If you are going to have knights in the game they should get the best horses. SOE never intended Crusaders to get a spell that gave an advantage. The only thing it lets us do is cross a zone faster and run away from encounters. Considering that there are a lot of skills for both SK <U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U>and Pal (<U><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></U> that dont currently work, SOE is just kicking dust in our face by not enabling us to run away form encounters we are under prepared to handle in the first place. Here is a solution that will take you to put more thought into it VS. taking the easy rout.</P> <P>1. Make the horses a quest reward for crusaders.</P> <P>2. Give one every 10 levels that has a faster speed rate.</P> <P>3. Make the level 50 crusader horse the fastest in the game.</P> <P>SOE has a history of nerfing player classes and some are justified. Though on this one I think they are wrong. Leave the horses where they are SOE, give knights the horses they should have and rethink the way you treat paying customers who have worked long and hard for there plat to gain an advantage. Your just hurting your customer base and punishing those that spend the most time on you game.</P></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think your entire arguement is unfounded.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>1) I have an active SWG account, and active EQ2 account and I pay for EQ2 players. I have over 50 days PLAYED on my two accounts. I invest TONS of time into this game and I feel like I'm a good SoE customer. That said I don't even have a horse, so you are exaggerating a lot by saying "hurting your customer base and punishing those that spend the most time on your game", etc etc.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>2) I see no reason in the way Pally/SK was designed or implemented to believe they should have not only the fastest horse in the game but a run speed enhancement at all.</FONT></P> <P>You also make yourself look foolish by trying to keep something that was unintended because your other abilities are broken. "running away blah blah". Get your class fixed, don't try to keep an unintended bug to make up for it. Wouldn't you prefer a working class over a horse you can buy anyway?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>I would prefer that the game is working as a collective community and offering the most enjoyable playing experience. <BR></P> <DIV>1. Your one player out of a few hundred thousnd and dont even own a horse. So obviously this does not apply to you. Thanks for the needless opinion of which you have no experience. You are not one of the many hard working customers that has purchased a horse.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Thank you again for your opinion of the design of Pallys and Sks you dont play one. My sugestion was a design improvement.</DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Gage your the one who looks follish here. You dont own a horse, you dont play a Pal/SK, and all you seem to do in this forum is fan flames. Go be productive in the monk forum where you have some experience.</DIV>

Gaige

02-15-2005, 05:48 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><BR> <P>I would prefer that the game is working as a collective community and offering the most enjoyable playing experience.</P> <P>1. <FONT color=#ffff00>Your one player out of a few hundred thousnd and dont even own a horse.</FONT> So obviously this does not apply to you. Thanks for the needless opinion of which you have no experience. You are not one of the many hard working customers that has purchased a horse.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Thank you again for your opinion of the design of Pallys and Sks you dont play one. My sugestion was a design improvement.</DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Gage your the one who looks follish here. You dont own a horse, you dont play a Pal/SK, and all you seem to do in this forum is fan flames. Go be productive in the monk forum where you have some experience.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm in the MAJORITY. The majority do not own a horse. Also, you were exaggerating and I was calling you on it. To call horse owners and SK/Pallys "SoE's best most dedicated customers" is a joke, plain and simple.</P> <P>I'm allowed to have an opinion about anything I want. Your suggestion is to keep a free multi-plat horse, of course you think its an improvement, but you list no good reasons why. </P> <P>Trust me you don't have to play an SK/Pally to understand how the game works, or to be able to read your skill list from 1 to 50 and clearly see that you were never intended to get a run speed enhancement, ever.</P> <P>Plus its been stated as a bug.</P> <P>Its really sad that the vocal majority out here voicing opinions for the SK/Pally community are mostly made up of people who picked the class just for the free horse <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

Dread Invict

02-15-2005, 06:23 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><BR> <P>I would prefer that the game is working as a collective community and offering the most enjoyable playing experience.</P> <P>1. <FONT color=#ffff00>Your one player out of a few hundred thousnd and dont even own a horse.</FONT> So obviously this does not apply to you. Thanks for the needless opinion of which you have no experience. You are not one of the many hard working customers that has purchased a horse.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Thank you again for your opinion of the design of Pallys and Sks you dont play one. My sugestion was a design improvement.</DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Gage your the one who looks follish here. You dont own a horse, you dont play a Pal/SK, and all you seem to do in this forum is fan flames. Go be productive in the monk forum where you have some experience.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm in the MAJORITY. The majority do not own a horse. Also, you were exaggerating and I was calling you on it. To call horse owners and SK/Pallys <FONT color=#ffff00>"SoE's best most dedicated customers"</FONT> is a joke, plain and simple.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>I'm allowed to have an opinion about anything I want. </FONT>Your suggestion is to keep a free multi-plat horse, of course you think its an improvement, but you list no good reasons why. </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Trust me you don't have to play an SK/Pally to understand how the game works, or to be able to read your skill list from 1 to 50 and clearly see that you were never intended to get a run speed enhancement, ever.</FONT></P> <P>Plus its been stated as a bug.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Its really sad that the vocal majority out here voicing opinions for the SK/Pally community are mostly made up of people who picked the class just for the free horse <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sigh...like I said fan the flames. </P> <P>1. What I said was this, "Most people have spent weeks even months to get a horse, your hurting those that work hard for what they have and are your best customers." That is not an exageration it is a statement baised on what it takes to come up with even one plat in this game. Endless your exploiting bugs or buying your plat. In that case I assume some one would take your stance and not understand what other players put into a natural character. </P> <P>2. Playing a SK/Pal and knowing all of the skill traits are 2 diffrent thing. I know all about monks, especialy the old agil exploit, but I dont know the first thing about playing one because I have no experiece with it. I dont pretend to be an expert.</P> <P>3. Your fishing now Gage I think it is time for you to find a new thread to pretend to know something about.</P>

Gaige

02-15-2005, 06:34 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Sigh...like I said fan the flames. </P> <P>1. What I said was this, "Most people have spent weeks even months to get a horse, your hurting those that work hard for what they have and are your best customers." That is not an exageration it is a statement baised on what it takes to come up with even one plat in this game. Endless your exploiting bugs or buying your plat. In that case I assume some one would take your stance and not understand what other players put into a natural character. <FONT color=#ffff00>Nice cheap shot implying whatever you are implying, I enjoyed it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You do realize there are, oh hell I dunno, hundreds of things a player can do in this game, that takes weeks or even months, that have 100% nothing to do with a horse? I've made more than enough to afford a couple Eldarrian Chargers, just chose not to.</FONT></P> <P>2. Playing a SK/Pal and knowing all of the skill traits are 2 diffrent thing. I know all about monks, especialy the old agil exploit, but I dont know the first thing about playing one because I have no experiece with it. I dont pretend to be an expert. <FONT color=#ffff00>Heh, you don't know much. What "agil exploit"? If it was an exploit by anyone it was troubadours, who found that their trait agility buffs and their normal agility buffs all stacked. I mean I guess we were exploiting for playing a class that uses agility? But of course by that term all of you are exploiting your horses, since they are bugged with unintended speed and its been freely admitted by a lot of you that you use them to run away from mobs and train zones to see/access content you couldn't without the 32% run speed enhancement your broken spells provide. Besides there is something called grasping the concept of the overall game, it isn't all about YOUR class. I can see by the "WE DESERVE THE FASTEST HORSE IN THE GAME!!!" comment where your bias lies.</FONT></P> <P>3. Your fishing now Gage I think it is time for you to find a new thread to pretend to know something about. <FONT color=#ffff00>I don't like fishing, either in game or in real life. While I will take your advice into consideration, I'm 99% sure that I'll choose not to listen to an exaggerating blow hard telling me where, when, and how I can post.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I've tried really hard to continue to remain constructive and not flame, but a LOT of these whines are so far fetched and ridiculous its hard to stay nuetral.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Eliar

02-15-2005, 06:44 AM

Well, Gage. I personally agree with all your points you make. Unfortuantely you are just not going to get anywhere with those that still just do not get (or refuse to admit) that they were never intended to have to enhancement they have. I would just sit back and let them whine on. I honestly do not care what they do with the horses. They can stay as they are for all I care. If SoE is so concerned about the horses giving anyone an advantage they should just totally get rid of them. Someone who had a 48% increase it still going to be able to do what they were doing with a 40% increase. Though I could be wrong. =)

Gaige

02-15-2005, 06:56 AM

<DIV>Ok, how about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For all the people saying "even though its a fluff spell, horses can run faster than a human".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>True.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So can tigers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My lvl 40 fluff spell is tiger form. Its 20 levels higher and more expensive than the pally fluff spell, so I think it'd should run twice as fast.</DIV>

Dread Invict

02-15-2005, 06:56 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Sigh...like I said fan the flames. </P> <P>1. What I said was this, "Most people have spent weeks even months to get a horse, your hurting those that work hard for what they have and are your best customers." That is not an exageration it is a statement baised on what it takes to come up with even one plat in this game. Endless your exploiting bugs or buying your plat. In that case I assume some one would take your stance and not understand what other players put into a natural character. <FONT color=#ffff00>Nice cheap shot implying whatever you are implying, I enjoyed it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You do realize there are, oh hell I dunno, hundreds of things a player can do in this game, that takes weeks or even months, that have 100% nothing to do with a horse? I've made more than enough to afford a couple Eldarrian Chargers, just chose not to.</FONT></P> <P>2. Playing a SK/Pal and knowing all of the skill traits are 2 diffrent thing. I know all about monks, especialy the old agil exploit, but I dont know the first thing about playing one because I have no experiece with it. I dont pretend to be an expert. <FONT color=#ffff00>Heh, you don't know much. What "agil exploit"? If it was an exploit by anyone it was troubadours, who found that their trait agility buffs and their normal agility buffs all stacked. I mean I guess we were exploiting for playing a class that uses agility? But of course by that term all of you are exploiting your horses, since they are bugged with unintended speed and its been freely admitted by a lot of you that you use them to run away from mobs and train zones to see/access content you couldn't without the 32% run speed enhancement your broken spells provide. Besides there is something called grasping the concept of the overall game, it isn't all about YOUR class. I can see by the "WE DESERVE THE FASTEST HORSE IN THE GAME!!!" comment where your bias lies.</FONT></P> <P>3. Your fishing now Gage I think it is time for you to find a new thread to pretend to know something about. <FONT color=#ffff00>I don't like fishing, either in game or in real life. While I will take your advice into consideration, I'm 99% sure that I'll choose not to listen to an exaggerating blow hard telling me where, when, and how I can post.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I've tried really hard to continue to remain constructive and not flame, but a LOT of these whines are so far fetched and ridiculous its hard to stay nuetral.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>HAHAHAHAHAHA like I said previously, fanning the flames. Stick to your pathetic insults Gage. Exaggerating blow hard, I like that one... Funny thing though through all of the posts you have placed in this discussion a lot of them are insulting people, I think you have done a great job of creating a productive discussion on why or why not horses should be nerfed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zell </DIV> <DIV>31 SK </DIV> <DIV>Highkeep</DIV>

Dread Invict

02-15-2005, 06:58 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, how about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For all the people saying "even though its a fluff spell, horses can run faster than a human".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>True.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So can tigers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My lvl 40 fluff spell is tiger form. Its 20 levels higher and more expensive than the pally fluff spell, so I think it'd should run twice as fast.</DIV> <P><BR></P> <P> <HR> </P> <P> </P> <P>I agree with you. It should give you a speed buff.</P> <P><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vamperion

02-15-2005, 07:12 AM

<DIV> <DIV>Ok, how about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For all the people saying "even though its a fluff spell, horses can run faster than a human".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>True.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So can tigers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My lvl 40 fluff spell is tiger form. Its 20 levels higher and more expensive than the pally fluff spell, so I think it'd should run twice as fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Gage- Mikel said that and i couldnt agree more, lets just suck it up people and realize that everything cant make everone happy, i applaud SOE on taking a solid stand that will help the entire world, rather than making a small group of them happy.</DIV></DIV>

Gaige

02-15-2005, 07:15 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, how about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For all the people saying "even though its a fluff spell, horses can run faster than a human".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>True.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So can tigers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My lvl 40 fluff spell is tiger form. Its 20 levels higher and more expensive than the pally fluff spell, so I think it'd should run twice as fast.</DIV> <P><BR></P> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P>I agree with you. It should give you a speed buff.</P> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wolves can also run faster than humans. So I think that fury/warden wolf form should grant a speed buff also. Hawks can fly faster than humans can walk, so I think that mystic/defiler hawk form should grant a true flying ability AND a speed buff. </P> <P>Then you know we gotta talk about the bears, snakes, stags, deer, fairies...</P>

Eliar

02-15-2005, 07:40 AM

<DIV>Hey ... what about wizards? What do we get? lol</DIV>

Dread Invict

02-15-2005, 09:43 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, how about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For all the people saying "even though its a fluff spell, horses can run faster than a human".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>True.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So can tigers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My lvl 40 fluff spell is tiger form. Its 20 levels higher and more expensive than the pally fluff spell, so I think it'd should run twice as fast.</DIV> <P><BR></P> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P>I agree with you. It should give you a speed buff.</P> <P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wolves can also run faster than humans. So I think that fury/warden wolf form should grant a speed buff also. Hawks can fly faster than humans can walk, so I think that mystic/defiler hawk form should grant a true flying ability AND a speed buff. </P> <P>Then you know we gotta talk about the bears, snakes, stags, deer, fairies...</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I absoloutly agree. If you can take the form of another creature you should have all the abilities of that form.</DIV>

Waivr

02-15-2005, 07:00 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>1. Make the horses a quest reward for crusaders. </P> <P>2. Give one every 10 levels that has a faster speed rate. </P> <P>3. Make the level 50 crusader horse the fastest in the game. </P> <P> </P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>As an SK, I think those would be interesting but severely unbalancing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It can never happen because we'll end up right where we are at now. You cannot give us something for "free" that all other classes are required to purchase. However, providing the Crusader sub-classes with a non-fluff speed buff equivalent to SoW is a fair compromise. That way the horse actually does have decent speed attached to it while at the same time it does not provide benefits beyond what two classes already receive. Other than the fact that you appear on a horse....which is what gets everyone.</DIV>

Waivr

02-15-2005, 07:05 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, how about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For all the people saying "even though its a fluff spell, horses can run faster than a human".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>True.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So can tigers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My lvl 40 fluff spell is tiger form. Its 20 levels higher and more expensive than the pally fluff spell, so I think it'd should run twice as fast.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I agree that animal forms should provide speed buffs. But make them equivalent to SoW across the board and possibly require a concentration point. That way the purchased horses still have a purpose, and shaman/druid group SoW still have distinction.<BR>

CherobylJ

02-15-2005, 07:21 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dread Invictus wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>I absoloutly agree. If you can take the form of another creature you should have all the abilities of that form.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>And detriments...do you have any idea how much food an adult male tiger eats per day? The foodbill in that form would be some $$$ :smileyvery-happy:<BR>

Teache

02-15-2005, 07:22 PM

<DIV>I agree all animal forms should raise your run speed level. Just my 2cp.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Bleusong

02-15-2005, 07:24 PM

sigh..most everyone agrees about pali/sk horses...but it's the merchant bought horses that's at issue here..there's not reason for merchant bought horses to be nerfed<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dread Invict

02-15-2005, 09:20 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>sigh..most everyone agrees about pali/sk horses...but it's the merchant bought horses that's at issue here..there's not reason for merchant bought horses to be nerfed<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There is no good reason for SOE to nerf the merchant bought horses. </FONT></DIV>

Waivr

02-15-2005, 09:30 PM

<DIV>Since this thread is really about the purchased horses and I've been littering it with Crusader horse talk... (excuse me, SK/Pally horse talk).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can see where purchased horses could be used to simply run through red mobs that would otherwise be unpassable. I think a much more interesting fix would have been to add a knockdown effect to NPCs that con orange or higher. Let them knock you off the horse and pound the crap out of the player....see how long that problem lasts. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In other words, give the MOBs the ability to counteract the horse when it is mis-used, don't nerf the horse across the board.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

WarklaW

02-15-2005, 11:38 PM

<DIV>I can tell you from my experience on a horse that if you get spotted by a group of yellow/orange/red mobs, you would be lucky to get passed them even on a horse. I've been spotted by mobs that size in the Nek forset and they've decimated me at my current speed! In fact, I've been stopped in my tracks by lesser mobs. Now, maybe that's a spell or an inherent ability of the mob that did that, or maybe I am doing something wrong, I've died plenty of times trying to "see" another part of the map. To run by mobs to get to an area is dangerous at any speed. Besides, where would you go? If your passing mobs that big, your obviously going the wrong way. You'll eventually end up dead because you'll run into more mobs that size or greater. On top of that, your deeper in then someone on foot would be to get their shard back. Where is the advantage in that?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The truth of the matter is, if so many didn't worry about what everyone else had, we wouldn't be in this predicament to start with. Now, it's everyones problem. Not just Palladins and Shadowknights. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So remember - YOU ASKED FOR IT!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Bunglem

02-15-2005, 11:39 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Waivren wrote:<BR> <DIV>Since this thread is really about the purchased horses and I've been littering it with Crusader horse talk... (excuse me, SK/Pally horse talk).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can see where purchased horses could be used to simply run through red mobs that would otherwise be unpassable. I think a much more interesting fix would have been to add a knockdown effect to NPCs that con orange or higher. Let them knock you off the horse and pound the crap out of the player....see how long that problem lasts. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In other words, give the MOBs the ability to counteract the horse when it is mis-used, don't nerf the horse across the board.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Misconception: Horses allow people to bypass very hard encounters.</P> <P>Fact: It doesn't quite work that way. After I got my 4pp horse, I decided to do all of the solo quests in Zek... Bootstrutter, picking up the gravestones, etc. Basically these quests just involved a lot of running around through red aggro mobs to update locations. I got aggro a few times, and it wasn't pretty. Here are a few examples...</P> <P>Aggroed some bears: Got mauled, couldn't move. Result... Got pasted.</P> <P>Aggroed some pumas: See above... Got pasted.</P> <P>Aggroed some orcs by the citadel: Only took one hit... pasted.</P> <P>Aggroed those caster tree things: Tree casts stun on me... then beats on me... and I got pasted.</P> <P>I believe I died six or seven times completing these quests while on my horse. I did get aggro that I ran away from several times, but the fact is that I could have done that on foot by pushing the sprint button. With Breeze up and some good drink, I can easily sprint the whole duration without running out of power... much more than enough to get away. Heck if the mob gives me enough time to get one spell cast I can mez it and freakin walk away. (And no, that doesn't need to be nerfed).</P> <P>I just wanted to be logical here and try to clear up this misconception that those without horses seem to have. Please leave the purchased mounts alone...</P>

Bleusong

02-15-2005, 11:55 PM

<blockquote><hr>Waivren wrote:<DIV>Since this thread is really about the purchased horses and I've been littering it with Crusader horse talk... (excuse me, SK/Pally horse talk).</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I can see where purchased horses could be used to simply run through red mobs that would otherwise be unpassable. I think a much more interesting fix would have been to add a knockdown effect to NPCs that con orange or higher. Let them knock you off the horse and pound the crap out of the player....see how long that problem lasts. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>In other words, give the MOBs the ability to counteract the horse when it is mis-used, don't nerf the horse across the board.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>^^is constructive<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />but i've seen plenty of people on 4plat+++ horses get deaded~~<p>Message Edited by Bleusong on <span class=date_text>02-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>

Gaige

02-16-2005, 02:54 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bungleman wrote:<BR><BR> <P>Misconception: Horses allow people to bypass very hard encounters.</P> <P>Fact: It doesn't quite work that way. After I got my 4pp horse, I decided to do all of the solo quests in Zek... Bootstrutter, picking up the gravestones, etc. Basically these quests just involved a lot of running around through red aggro mobs to update locations. I got aggro a few times, and it wasn't pretty. Here are a few examples...</P> <P>Aggroed some bears: Got mauled, couldn't move. Result... Got pasted.</P> <P>Aggroed some pumas: See above... Got pasted.</P> <P>Aggroed some orcs by the citadel: Only took one hit... pasted.</P> <P>Aggroed those caster tree things: Tree casts stun on me... then beats on me... and I got pasted.</P> <P>I believe I died six or seven times completing these quests while on my horse. I did get aggro that I ran away from several times, but the fact is that I could have done that on foot by pushing the sprint button. With Breeze up and some good drink, I can easily sprint the whole duration without running out of power... much more than enough to get away. Heck if the mob gives me enough time to get one spell cast I can mez it and freakin walk away. (And no, that doesn't need to be nerfed).</P> <P>I just wanted to be logical here and try to clear up this misconception that those without horses seem to have. Please leave the purchased mounts alone...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>They never said horses make you unkillable, just that it made getting away from mobs too easy.</P> <P>I think you also have to consider the timing, a lot of lvl 50 people are rolling alts, and those alts are buying Eldarrian Chargers.</P> <P>Now while the horse may not have been overpowering in t5 zones (it was though I've seen trains from LS docks to Sol Eye) just imagine how overpowering it'd be in Antonica.<BR></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and I was being sarcastic about the tiger form speed buff, I think all fluff should remain fluff. Giving fluff benefits is stupid.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on <span class=date_text>02-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:55 PM</span>

TheVanda

02-16-2005, 03:08 AM

<DIV>If this nerf will be put in place due to the ability to avoid dying, does this also mean that once people can actually afford a carpet, it will also be nerfed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought the entire reason that mounts existed (other than of course, the status) was to be a faster mode of transportation. If this means that it is against the devs thinking that it shouldn't help you survive aggro, then what is the point of owning one. Are you telling me that for the reasons stated for this nerf, when I buy that 50pp carpet, you will slow it down because it may be an actuall usefull tool? God forbid we could spend that kind of money and have it really benefit us, especially since it makes no difference once the encounter is locked. You stop gaining the buff during a fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thought that comes to mind though, is this game is still new enough to introduce many more mounts. Maybe (praying I am right) the devs just felt that these initial mounts shouldn't be the end all status and speed solution. If the 9pp horse is too fast, then when the economy can support us all having one (and unfourtunatley, some day it will), would we sink our cash into the better one?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just a couple of thoughts.</DIV><p>Message Edited by TheVandals on <span class=date_text>02-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:10 PM</span>

Teache

02-16-2005, 03:17 AM

<DIV>Gage once again, you sound like you pefer a more challenging game than the mainstream player. I myself don't have the time to play the game more than casually, and I get billed the same amount as you. I used to be able to kill windfeather before the horse and now at a higher level and on a horse I cannot break the encounter even after yelling for help attack will not turn off I died twice doing this. So t3 mobs have can hurt you if you engage them. Just my 2cp:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Gaige

02-16-2005, 03:18 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teacher1 wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Gage once again, you sound like you pefer a more challenging game than the mainstream player.</FONT> I myself don't have the time to play the game more than casually, and I get billed the same amount as you. I used to be able to kill windfeather before the horse and now at a higher level and on a horse I cannot break the encounter even after yelling for help attack will not turn off I died twice doing this. So t3 mobs have can hurt you if you engage them. Just my 2cp:smileyvery-happy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It depends, I play WoW too, and its too easy and extremely casual.<BR>

Drtydog

02-16-2005, 03:20 AM

<DIV>ANother example of SOE giving us a hammer and then taking away the handle......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>there were SO many other ways to fix the combat issue...like not allow you to get on them during combat...but no...they have to screwup the entire horse luxury...Next up is the assassin's escape skill..you think YOU can get outta combat? i can escape the entire grp to the zone point....I give SOE 2 months before that hammer has no handle..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean it's completlely crazy...you work your butt off to get something and they nerf it...i promise you they will nerf the carpets..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Bunglem

02-16-2005, 03:56 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote: <P>They never said horses make you unkillable, just that it made getting away from mobs too easy.</P> <P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Hehe, think about this comment for a second... not meaning this disrespectful Gage. What difficulty is involved in running away? Turning around and hitting sprint? If you can't run away from a mob, then you shouldn't be playing video games period. The only difference in running away with or without a horse is that the horse doesn't use power. Not once during a fight have I ever died trying to run away and not having enough power. It's easy to tell if I'm going to lose or not before I get into a situation in which I have no power left. Plus it only takes a little power to get enough distance from the mob to run away...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Bungleman on <span class=date_text>02-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:58 PM</span>

Bleusong

02-16-2005, 04:02 AM

<blockquote><hr>TheVandals wrote:<DIV>If this nerf will be put in place due to the ability to avoid dying, does this also mean that once people can actually afford a carpet, it will also be nerfed?</DIV><DIV> <hr></blockquote>think so<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gaige

02-16-2005, 04:07 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bungleman wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote: <P>They never said horses make you unkillable, just that it made getting away from mobs too easy.</P> <P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Hehe, think about this comment for a second... not meaning this disrespectful Gage. What difficulty is involved in running away? Turning around and hitting sprint? If you can't run away from a mob, then you shouldn't be playing video games period. The only difference in running away with or without a horse is that the horse doesn't use power. Not once during a fight have I ever died trying to run away and not having enough power. It's easy to tell if I'm going to lose or not before I get into a situation in which I have no power left. Plus it only takes a little power to get enough distance from the mob to run away...</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I understand your position, but I was more referring to this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When my groups/raids were in Lava Storm we would either group invis or fight our way all the way to Sol Eye. This is both time consuming, and in some areas it can get a little hairy. While it IS true that if an encounter went bad we could run/sprint out of it. Although sprint is consumable and not always available. When going on foot you tend to be more careful, try to avoid aggro, etc etc. Taking the path of least resistance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Horses alleviate a lot of that responsibility and fear from people, because it is permanent sprint. Like you said either of them will probably allow you to run away, but only one of them makes it trivial.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Bunglem

02-16-2005, 04:17 AM

<DIV>Yea I see your point Gage. That would be unbalancing... but that situation would occur only if all the people in the group had horses that ran at sprint speed, which I'm sure doesn't happen often... though I don't know for sure because I've heard it's a lot easier to make money at the higher levels than it is at my level (and I sure hope so, as apparently I'm going to be saving up 5pp more for a horse upgrade when this patch hits live).</DIV>

Gaige

02-16-2005, 04:25 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bungleman wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yea I see your point Gage. That would be unbalancing... but that situation would occur only if all the people in the group had horses that ran at sprint speed, which I'm sure doesn't happen often... though I don't know for sure because I've heard it's a lot easier to make money at the higher levels than it is at my level (and I sure hope so, as apparently I'm going to be saving up 5pp more for a horse upgrade when this patch hits live).</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yeah, and the fact that without invis its pretty much impossible to sprint enough to make it to Sol Eye solo, although you CAN run there easily on a horse. This is a t5 zone, and it only gets worse as you go down.</P> <P>If you try hard t5 you can make a plat a day or more, depending on playtime, so the 10pp horse isn't hard to get.<BR></P>

Keitah

02-16-2005, 05:18 AM

I've been reading over the posts and everybody is crying out "Sprint is better than horses, o noz!!". Well, horses don't cost power to run and you can run anywhere for any amount of time on a horse for "free". And by "free" I mean without 'sinking power'. So what if Sprint is better? What if you're attacked right after you've wasted all your power -IN- sprinting? Getting around at run/sprint is annoying and power-draining. Sure with the right drink, it pumps to full in no time, but you have to wait for it to regenerate, which means running at regular speed until it's completely full or half full or whatever. And that also means wasting money on drink earlier than when you arrive at your camp. I'd rather not -sink- money into power for Sprint every time I need to be out and running in the real world to camp, or foot-quests or gathering or visiting a friend in Freeport.And when you're in a battle? Sprint is fine for this, except if you're actually playing your class and using power, in which case you will have less to sprint on to get away. Which is why horses are being nerfed in the first place, according to previous posts. Horses shouldn't be much faster than Sprint, in my opinion. Horses are used for TRAVELING long distances. Sprint is used for ESCAPING. Both of these should work as intended. So STAY in battle and EARN your experience and loot. So what if you die? That's where strategy comes in.Horses are still better than Sprint, in my opinion. Especially when getting around and back and forth from 'camp' and home. You can use 'Call of..' every time it pops but it's faster just to run. (Or ride). <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />A constant 40% increase in speed is still better than a faster LIMITED Sprint, in my opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />So sell back your horses. You're 'nerfing' yourself better than SOE 'nerfed' you. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The classes that get speed buffs like SoW, etc are just part of being the class.Nobody was really mad at Bards being faster than horses in EQ1. So why shouldn't Scout/Druid/Shammy/whatever buffs be comparable to horses? Instead of one Bard class being faster than everything in EQ1, lots of classes get speed buffs.It costs 100k platinum in Everquest just to get the horse that is -faster- than SoW speed.I think this change is appropriate and don't mind if it goes live.I know this isn't Everquest. It's EVERQUEST II.And sure, I don't agree with the speed 'nerf' for horses because people are not using them as intended, but people are complaining and selling their horses back and quitting the game and being babies over -nothing-. Horses cost so much because they pay back the money little by little in the drink that you buy so you're able to regen sprint speed back -and- supply a constant travel speed which is still better than Limited Sprint. And still better than having nothing at all.If you're a SoW or speed buff class that can make others (without a horse) run up to 37% faster than NOTHING at all, than it makes those buffs all the more useful; The classes all the more useful.Calm down. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />These are my opinions.<p>Message Edited by Keitah on <span class=date_text>02-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:14 PM</span>

Waivr

02-16-2005, 05:44 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Oh, and I was being sarcastic about the tiger form speed buff, I think all fluff should remain fluff. Giving fluff benefits is stupid.</DIV> <P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>So be it, but I like for things to make sense. Horses moving faster than creatures on two feet make sense....changing into an animal form and moving faster makes sense. Now we're back to design opinions again, but I say give the NPCs the ability to foil the players speed bonuses, don't foil the speed bonuses just because it's the easier thing to do.</P> <DIV>If you want to try and run through a group of red ^^ treants to get to another section of a forest you have no buisness in, go for it. But don't be surprised when said treants root you, dot you, and dance gleefully on your corpse. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moving faster from Point A to Point B is not a sin, especially in a game where one of the design goals was to reduce player downtime.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Bleusong

02-16-2005, 06:41 AM

alot of sore people here and people who can't stand the idea that someone might work hard to buy a horse<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />mm..they never said why they are nerfing the horse did they..maybe it was just easier to do so=) anyways<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> it's still stupid to nerf something that doesn't need to be nerfed<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> please use /feedback~ stop this silly patch from going live<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bleusong

02-16-2005, 11:23 PM

any feedback on buy back?..soe lost alot of credibility here..'will buy back at full price' still could mean, 'will buy back at 30% of what you paid for'

Gaige

02-17-2005, 12:53 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>any feedback on buy back?..soe lost alot of credibility here..'will buy back at full price' still could mean, 'will buy back at 30% of what you paid for'<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Supposedly its full price minus merchant markup. Why would anyone want to sell their horse now that its speed stacks anyway?<BR>

Bleusong

02-17-2005, 12:56 AM

moor guard wrote<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />You will indeed be able to get your cash back for your mount if you choose to do so. Stable hands will be added in the cities for exactly this purpose.-------------------oooh..didn't mention mark up=) what's the markup?<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gaige

02-17-2005, 12:58 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>moor guard wrote<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>You will indeed be able to get your cash back for your mount if you choose to do so. Stable hands will be added in the cities for exactly this purpose.<BR><BR>-------------------<BR><BR>oooh..didn't mention mark up=) what's the markup?<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Its on the test server update note list from yesterday, when they state that speed buffs and sprint work on horses.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00> <HR> *** Gameplay ***</FONT></STRONG></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- You no longer need to defeat an entire encounter to get credit for completing most quests.<BR>- Your speed while on a mount is no longer limited by the maximum speed of the mount. If you receive a movement buff that is faster than the default speed of your mount, you will now move at the faster speed for the duration of the speed increase. This includes spells such as Spirit of the Wolf and abilities such as Sprint.<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00> There are now stable hand merchants in West Freeport and South Qeynos that will purchase mounts at their full value, less any merchant markup you paid when buying them. <BR></FONT>- The damage done by Darathar's breath weapon has been reduced.<BR>- Added an on-screen message after purchasing a ticket to travel by sea that lets players know they must use the ticket before camping or leaving the zone.<BR>- Updated a few details of the city sabotage quests. There should no longer be timers on sabotage quests in outdoor zones.<BR>- The Rallosian Tunic is now light armor.<BR>- The pants for the Monk and Bruiser level 20 quest armors should no longer use the tattered legging appearance.<BR>- The Bramblewood round shield now looks like a round shield.<BR>- Stench in the Serpent Sewer should now drop items appropriate for his level of difficulty.<BR>- Level 50 spell scrolls will now only drop from epic encounters.<BR>- Inspecting Petrified Eyes will now provide text explaining bone consumption.<BR>- Vials of swordfish blood should no longer display a bug icon.<BR>- The Rod of Everlasting Flame should now have the correct appearance.<BR>- Bruise Forger Cestus now does the same type of damage as other cestus weapons. <HR> </DIV>