Sellback prices only taking into account the last combine - needs to consider all fuel used

[Grogn]

<DIV> <DIV>On Test right now, the sellback price is only considering the fuel cost of the final combine, and is forgetting to consider the fuel cost for the other items used in making the final product.  This wouldn't be a big deal for 6coppers in the old fuel cost, but it's very big now, especially at the tier 5 level with fuel costing over 15 silver a pop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example:   Tier3 jerky now costs 2 silver to make, plus 1 resource, plus time:</DIV> <UL> <LI>96 copper for one tier 3 fuel (to make 1 steak)</LI> <LI>4 copper for one tier 1 packet of spices, purchased (to make 1 steak)</LI> <LI>96 copper for one tier 3 fuel (to make 1 jerky)</LI> <LI>4 copper for one tier 1 packet of spices, purchased (to make 1 jerky)</LI> <LI>1 fish or meat, harvested (considered no value)</LI> <LI>our time involved in making the jerky (considered no value)</LI></UL> <DIV>Sellback value is 1 silver, 12 coppers.  The server calculation only took into account the 96 coppers for the final make-the-jerky part, because it's not looking at the steak as having any fuel cost.  It just sees the steak as steak and since that isn't one of the fuel items, it is ignored.   That's a mistake - the steak does have a fuel cost in of itself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It might be a pain, but with the higher fuel costs representing a very significant increase in the cost of production, a recursive routine is mandatory to figure out the real fuel cost of every item.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>Fuel cost for the jerky = 96 coppers</LI> <LI>Fuel cost for the steak = 96 coppers</LI></UL> <DIV>Sellback price, instead of selling back for 1s 12c, needs to sell back for more - to take into account the 96 copper fuel cost of the steak.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Suppose it was a Planed Ash Lumber instead.  To make that you had to refine Severed Ash.  Then you had to take that Refined Ash and turn it into Planed Ash.  That's two fuel costs, not just the one for the last make-it-planed effort.  If both fuels are not considered, then think what happens at the tier5 level when fuel costs 15 silver 36 coppers each?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Planed Teak</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>Fuel cost for the refined teak 15 silver 36 copper</LI> <LI>Fuel cost to turn that refined teak into planed teak 15 silver 36 copper</LI></UL> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sellback cannot consider only the fuel in the final make-it-planed part - it needs to figure out that there was another step that also cost 15 silver 36 copper.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grognar</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Ceruline]

Very good analysis... While I'm still in sticker shock from the fuel costs, the sellbacks are certainly not behaving properly either.

[Baelzharon]

Considering it takes 4.75 (lets round it off at 5) combines(Fuel) to make 1 Spell/Skill I wonder if the final product accounts for that as well on sell back, or is it like the OP stated and only accounts for the 1 fuel used to make the spell.

[BardicOne]

<DIV>I have to agree here.  While looking at the values of some of my weaponsmith items, I noticed drastic drops in value.  My carbonite bars now sell back to the vendor for 48c, that's half the price of the fuel alone not including the price for the temper (25c if I made pristine myself) and the cost for the raw resource (I get for free luckily).  So I am spending about 1s20c to make an item that sells for 48c.  Also, the sellback prices for all my carbonite (T3) weapons has dropped from 12s to around 5s30c.  To make one weapon I need two bars (2s40c), refine those two bars into other items (2s40c), a third resource type refined twice (2s40c), and the fuel for the final combine (96c).  Added all up that comes to about 8s20c to make one weapon that sells for 5s30c.  If it was left at 12s then I would think that it is a nice little profit for the amount of work it took to make that one weapon.  Please rethink the pricing on fuels!</DIV>

[SilvanE]

<DIV>Anyone mind confirming that the items crafted before the change sell back at the new price after the change? Thanks! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Silvan</DIV> <DIV>Weaponsmith</DIV> <DIV>Ancestry - Crushbone</DIV><p>Message Edited by SilvanEQ2 on <span class=date_text>02-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:12 AM</span>

[Piz]

Can any alchemist's tell us hat do loamsregaments sell for?-

[xAlar]

<DIV>And it's worse than you think!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>New change to Test:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Tradeskills ***<BR></FONT></STRONG> <BR>- Tradeskill society tasks will now reward a 20% profit margin based on the fuel costs necessary to create the items.<BR></LI></UL> <DIV>With this change the <STRONG>complete fuel cost of an item must be considered</STRONG>, absolutely <STRONG>not just the fuel cost of the final combine</STRONG>.  Otherwise all writ production will cease instantly and zero profit of any kind will be made from them.  Without writs, even lousy 20% profit ones (assuming <STRONG>all </STRONG>fuel costs are considered to get the 20% at all) will be gone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Belgar Frostven]

<DIV>Consider also that if you are crafting a product that you are shooting for pristine and it gets off to a bad start, you cancel the make before the first green bar dings to crude and start over.  Well, I do anyway.  Heh, those little extra fuel costs could add up on a run of bad starts.  We'll likely tend to not quit out of a make as often now, and instead try to push through to the end unless the start is truly disastrous.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Belgar Frostvenom on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:53 AM</span>

[Alon]

<DIV>I am a level 46 alchemist.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alchemists are a class that provide needed components in the form of oils resins tempers and washes to all of the other tradeskills except for provisioner (food).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently a T5 WORT (wash/oil/resin/temper) sells back to the merchants for 6 copper. On our server resources cost average 12-14s each for tier5 sometimes more sometimes less.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In order to make 1 ink you need to:</DIV> <DIV>make 1 oil and 2 washes (20s +30s for fuel)</DIV> <DIV> fuel / water                              (15s +6copper unless they increase water as well)</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>refine bloodstone/diamondine </FONT>(16s on market )</DIV> <DIV>refine regeant to a dye             (15s fuel)</DIV> <DIV>refine dye to ink                        (15s fuel)</DIV> <DIV>---------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Cost to make <FONT color=#ffff00>1 gold </FONT><FONT color=#cccccc>11 silver</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will virtually <FONT color=#ff0033>KILL </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>crafters making rogue (jewelers) and casters (scholars). Alchemists will make inks for themselves to level up and that is it OR the inks will be so expensive to reflect the cost of making (5 combines each ink) that either noone will gain levels and only people offering spells will do so at very large unaffordable prices.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The proposed 15s fuel cost is ridiculous. 5-6s is more in line.</DIV> <DIV>I really hope SoE reconsiders this before they ruin the crafting system (it not only applies to alchemy it has more far eraching consequences as alchemy is the providing class for all buy 1 of the tradeskills). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Qwindar]

<blockquote><hr>Alonis wrote:<DIV> (it not only applies to alchemy it has more far eraching consequences as alchemy is the providing class for all buy 1 of the tradeskills). </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Ummm....if this patch goes through as is, nobody will need an alchy...or any other class.<p>Message Edited by Qwindar on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:25 AM</span>

[Zannah]

quill and paper spells = 13 pieces of fuel (to make from scratch WORT included)scout runes = 15 pieces of fuelFayberry Marguerita = 4 pieces of fuel (3 finished products combined into 1 final)Carbonite Rapier = 13 pieces of fuelCarbonite Chainmail Coif = 15 pieces of fuelBurlap Blouse = 15 pieces of fuelhmmmm....

[xAlar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zannah wrote:<BR>quill and paper spells = 13 pieces of fuel (to make from scratch WORT included)<BR><BR>scout runes = 15 pieces of fuel<BR><BR>Fayberry Marguerita = 4 pieces of fuel (3 finished products combined into 1 final)<BR><BR>Carbonite Rapier = 13 pieces of fuel<BR><BR>Carbonite Chainmail Coif = 15 pieces of fuel<BR><BR>Burlap Blouse = 15 pieces of fuel<BR><BR>hmmmm....<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Better hope you don't get a tradeskill writ for...um....<EM>any item you can make</EM>.  Because you'll get 20% profit <EM>assuming it only took 1 fuel.</EM>  They need to seriously upgrade the sellback prices for all items now that fuel costs have skyrocketed.  Forget about 20% profit - writs will represent a massive loss otherwise, especially at the tier5 level with fuel being 15s 36c each.</P> <P>Even with that the 20% won't come close to covering the massive time investment and real investment required to obtain the raw materials.  20% is way low.</P> <P>They can raise costs all they like, and demand that crafters must always only sell to other players, but if crafters can't make profits, who will be able to afford our wares?  Adventurers?  Ha.  They cry about drink prices of all things - they ain't seen nothing yet, once you add in 50s for the typical 3 combine t5 drink.</P> <P>Finally, count out hitting the Stop button at tier5 - that little button says "burn 15s 36c now" instead of Stop :p</P> <P> </P>