Assasin vs Swashbucklers

[Comp2go]

<DIV>In pvp scenario, do we assasins we beat Swashbuckler? (If skill and gear are equal)(lvl 70, also)</DIV>

[vejai]

<DIV>sure you can, however atm the swash is prolly the most overpowered class and they have a much easier time beating us then we do them.</DIV>

[Jvaloth]

<P>Assassin will get their [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] kicked by a swashy, period.</P> <P> </P> <P>They have some skill that will riposte every attack you do for 12 seconds, they do more dps, every attack they have has a debuff component linked, they have a bunch of frontal attacks and stuns and knockbacks.  </P> <P> </P> <P>It wouldnt even be close ...  </P> <P>Unless you got a backstab off on them, cheap shot,   snared, and bow kited  but even then I have my doubts.</P> <P>And I think they have see stealth too so you probably wouldnt even be able to get that off.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Jvaloth on <span class=date_text>01-10-2007</span> <span class=time_text>05:57 AM</span>

[Axxon]

<P>A swashbuckler with a one-hander and the wisdom line of AAs is a very nasty piece of work.  Freehand reversal etc. is I think what you guys are talking about with the ripostes.  Double attacks also.  Like a Brigand, many swash CAs are also frontal so that is also nice in PVP.  </P> <P>Now....if you get the drop on one and hit him with decap it's another matter.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[LoreLady]

Swashbucklers and brigands are the bane of preds in PVP, they see stealth - we cant.. They debuff us alot heavier than we can debuff them, they also get more stuns..  Honestly, although I am not in a PVP server - in duels rouges and brawlers, and sk's are the hardest classes to duel for a pred IMO..Btw, dont think that swashbucklers/brigands dont have there bane as well - its mages in general.. They can get oneshotted pretty easilly by wizards, and there mitigation debuffs dont work too well on them (they dont have much mit to begin with), yet a wizard still fears that decap from an assassin <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[Outerspace]

Surely Concealment + Jugular + KB + Evisc would be just as good if not better. Can kill more wizzys in less time with that. <span>:smileysurprised:</span><div></div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Outerspace wrote:Surely Concealment + Jugular + KB + Evisc would be just as good if not better. Can kill more wizzys in less time with that. <span>:smileysurprised:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>The most leet assassin out there, an assassin who has nothing but decap and evac on there hotbar <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (sarcasm)And yea, assassins are still a force to be reconed with in PVP even without decap.. I get really worried really quickly when an assassin gets close to me <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Icehunter612]

Sk's aren't the hardest to duel for all predators. When I was a ranger I used to lay the smack down on SKs all the time. It was just a matter of kiting and making sure you didn't get hit by his aoes, and that he kept losing his target.<div></div>

[DresdenMalicaster]

<DIV>mmm swashys are overpowered, along with brigs~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have fun beating one that even has the simplest clue about this class</DIV>

[DresdenMalicaster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Icehunter612 wrote:<BR>Sk's aren't the hardest to duel for all predators. When I was a ranger I used to lay the smack down on SKs all the time. It was just a matter of kiting and making sure you didn't get hit by his aoes, and that he kept losing his target.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You're kidding me right?</P> <P>Yea, I think you are...</P>

[HazNpho]

<div></div>So far I've only seen Assassin as a great mage killer, if you can get up on them they are dead before they have time to cast their first spell, jugular is your friend against casters, mage and priest alike. Watch for priests though, I believe they have a spell that allows them to see stealth.Also if your refering to PvP server, watch for those with the butterfly totem in use. Stealth is our strongest ally, and with the nerf of levels of stealth its made things harder for us. If they see you your pretty much dead. Root and Nuke, Stun and Bash, Knockback and AoE... all pretty much spell out bain for an assassin. So the best thing to do is just figure where your strongest, I've seen some plate tanks fall to assassin, and some healers beat one hands down.Thats just my view, and its comming from a non-pvp server, so the only real fighting I see is duels or arena events.**Edit**Thats healers beating an assassin hands down. Not sure how that came out to the rest of you, but rereading that didn't seem right.<div></div><p>Message Edited by HazNpho on <span class=date_text>01-12-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:51 PM</span>

[DresdenMalicaster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HazNpho wrote:<BR>So far I've only seen Assassin as a great mage killer, if you can get up on them they are dead before they have time to cast their first spell, jugular is your friend against casters, mage and priest alike. Watch for priests though, I believe they have a spell that allows them to see stealth.<BR><BR>Also if your refering to PvP server, watch for those with the butterfly totem in use. Stealth is our strongest ally, and with the nerf of levels of stealth its made things harder for us. If they see you your pretty much dead. Root and Nuke, Stun and Bash, Knockback and AoE... all pretty much spell out bain for an assassin. So the best thing to do is just figure where your strongest, I've seen some plate tanks fall to assassin, and some healers beat one hands down.<BR><BR>Thats just my view, and its comming from a non-pvp server, so the only real fighting I see is duels or arena events.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>mmm PvE speak makes me giggle irl~

[HazNpho]

So enlighten this PvE player what I'm wrong about there? I'm thinking of heading over to PvP for the challenge and would like to have somewhat of an idea of what to expect.<div></div>

[Outerspace]

Do people even play PvP on EQ2 any more? <span>:smileyindifferent:</span>See quite a lot of posts saying the server population is non-existant.<div></div>

[DresdenMalicaster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Outerspace wrote:<BR>Do people even play PvP on EQ2 any more? <SPAN>:smileyindifferent:</SPAN><BR><BR>See quite a lot of posts saying the server population is non-existant.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>mmm Nagafen is still the most populated server~

[songsta]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jvaloth wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Assassin will get their [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] kicked by a swashy, period.</p> <p>They have some skill that will riposte every attack you do for 12 seconds, they do more dps, every attack they have has a debuff component linked, they have a bunch of frontal attacks and stuns and knockbacks.  </p> <p>It wouldnt even be close ...  </p> <p>Unless you got a backstab off on them, cheap shot,   snared, and bow kited  but even then I have my doubts.</p> <p>And I think they have see stealth too so you probably wouldnt even be able to get that off.</p> <p>Message Edited by Jvaloth on <span class="date_text">01-10-2007</span> <span class="time_text">05:57 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Q and are u swashy urself, on my assassin i pwn every swashy White Con ive faced, which ive been seein alot of lately</div>

[Bi]

el oh el oh el.you are 35-  your sig even says so. I'd imagine that most 3x swashies are going to be newbies, as all the pro's are already 70.no offense, but generally speaking class balance becomes quite clear in the 50+ range, not <35 range.<div></div>

[songsta]

<div></div>uhmm...alot of ppl lock in T4 thanks and i have faced many swashies that gave me a run for my money. So before u go assuming just because im lvl 35 i know nothing maybe you should get ur [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] straightEDIT: o btw just because my sig says im 35(which i am) doesnt always mean i am. It also says im a Waldelf does that mean im a waldelf?<div></div><p>Message Edited by songsta on <span class=date_text>01-14-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:36 PM</span>

[Bi]

which part of 50+ do you not understand?when classes start getting their class definining skillsets, at 35 you've barely been through your sets 3 times; probably more like twice.... So yea, I'm assuming that because you can't see the class in its fullest potential, that you dont know what you are talking about :]<div></div>

[Daim]

<div><blockquote><hr>HazNpho wrote:So enlighten this PvE player what I'm wrong about there? I'm thinking of heading over to PvP for the challenge and would like to have somewhat of an idea of what to expect.<div></div><hr></blockquote>There's too much to describe here about the entire pvp thing but expect to die to swashes if you're an assassin.  The guy who's arguably the best assassin on nagafen gets beat by swashes, it's just not in the cards for you to win unless the swash is at some skill/gear/hp handicap.</div>

[ligiguinesmule]

<P>In all honesty assassin vs swash at lvl 70 we have maybe a 5% chance of beating them if they have any clue at all how to play.  Its not even them being skilled its actually just 2 skills they can stack (en guarde and inspiration) while using non-positional attacks that melt every single melee class.  It used to be avoidable because we could kite them by rooting or snaring but they have a new AA that lets them autoattack, ripost and all that cool stuff from 20 meters away.</P> <P>Atm it takes negative skill to play a swash and own just about every class.  If theyre from queynos and have the pvp belt our chances go down to 1% and that 1% is when they are afk or going linkdead.</P> <P>I dont go out and pvp anymore because 50-60% of the q's i run into are swash and it just gets me frustrated how people using absolutely no skills at all can thoroughly own me.  </P> <P>Example:  I see swash.  He pops enguard/inspiration combo.  I use freezing strike to root him and i go to 10-15% hp.  Use bow attacks and i get riposted on them from range and die.  Check logs and see i got hit 24 times in under 2 seconds.</P> <P>grats devs</P> <P>Bleed 70 Assassin</P> <P>The Kraken</P>

[DresdenMalicaster]

<DIV>While Bleed is in fact an assassin on thine Nagafen server I'd like to point out that his strat isn't all it's cracked up to be!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Upon release of EoF with the jugular and root AAs play a big part in how assassins how produce their deadly effects in PvP!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Upon getting the jump of a swasy, stifle and CA combos will quickly dispatch thine foe into thine earth with deadly results!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you come upon a more competent swashy who finds you first and pops his deadly combo off the bat I suggest sprinting away and gaining a little lee-way, come back, produce step one, get your fame!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you find one of those good swahys you are pretty much dead unless you can stifle and decapitate him, or anything of the sort~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enjoi~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Than again I suck, so if you want to figure out your own way be my guest.</DIV><p>Message Edited by DresdenMalicaster on <span class=date_text>01-15-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:10 PM</span>

[Jvaloth]

<DIV>Well swashies are over powered in both PVE and PVP.   Sad state of affairs if you ask me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[HazNpho]

<div><blockquote><hr>ligiguinesmule wrote:<div></div> <p>In all honesty assassin vs swash at lvl 70 we have maybe a 5% chance of beating them if they have any clue at all how to play.  Its not even them being skilled its actually just 2 skills they can stack (en guarde and inspiration) while using non-positional attacks that melt every single melee class.  It used to be avoidable because we could kite them by rooting or snaring but they have a new AA that lets them autoattack, ripost and all that cool stuff from 20 meters away.</p> <p>Atm it takes negative skill to play a swash and own just about every class.  If theyre from queynos and have the pvp belt our chances go down to 1% and that 1% is when they are afk or going linkdead.</p> <p>I dont go out and pvp anymore because 50-60% of the q's i run into are swash and it just gets me frustrated how people using absolutely no skills at all can thoroughly own me.  </p> <p>Example:  I see swash.  He pops enguard/inspiration combo.  I use freezing strike to root him and i go to 10-15% hp.  Use bow attacks and i get riposted on them from range and die.  Check logs and see i got hit 24 times in under 2 seconds.</p> <p>grats devs</p> <p>Bleed 70 Assassin</p> <p>The Kraken</p><hr></blockquote>You need to post a screenie of this log, that'll light some fires under a devs [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] I'd hope. Otherwise its true, we really have no attention as players from the developers that we pay.</div>

[ligiguinesmule]

<DIV>Shax is right that is a viable way to counter a swash.  A bad swash.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That jugular attack that stifles the Swash will get you stunned, rooted and trigger the onslaught of en guarde and inspiration most of the time.  </DIV> <DIV>Swash rarely begin a fight without both up.  If you truly get the jump on a swash then yes,  leading with jugular is the way to go but that isnt going to happen very often.  Leading with jugular is the way to go on any fight where you get the jump. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Running away until the skills are down is the #1 way to go against a swash but if theyre specced for reach AA theyll be meleeing you down from 20 meters while you flee.   If resists werent broken and my master snare would land more than 20% of the time this option would be more viable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I get hit 20+ times when both are up in under 2 seconds,  its rediculous.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WTT decap for inspiration or en guarde PST</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bleed 70 Assassin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Kraken</DIV>

[Scotti]

<DIV>We're a tough class, but no where near as bad as Bleed makes us out to be. Also, I rarely use En garde or Inspiration unless its a group fight, tons more fun that way. I'll be glad to answer any questions about what Swashes actually do.</DIV>

[MethoDizer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stripe7 wrote:<BR> <DIV>We're a tough class, but no where near as bad as Bleed makes us out to be. Also, I rarely use En garde or Inspiration unless its a group fight, tons more fun that way. I'll be glad to answer any questions about what Swashes actually do.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Assassin vrs Swash = 1 dead Assassin 98% of the time. PERIOD</P> <P>1% God Ablity Assassin Wins!</P> <P>1% Able to out run the En Garde timmer, then come back to own!</P> <P> </P>

[Poison-X]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stripe7 wrote:<BR> <DIV>We're a tough class, but no where near as bad as Bleed makes us out to be. Also, I rarely use En garde or Inspiration unless its a group fight, tons more fun that way. I'll be glad to answer any questions about what Swashes actually do.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Get real.. ^^^        Inspiration is broke as [I cannot control my vocabulary] .. even without recast aa's you can cast it 3 times for every 1 decap and it does like 10x more dmg than decap since its nerfed to nothing in pvp. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heres a old fraps vs a horrible swash that casts 2 things.. a god ability and inspiration.. en garde never proced on me once even though i was in d-stance (assassins dont actually avoid anything) there was no counterattacks in my log.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://files.filefront.com/fuxswash12_06_2006avi/;6595322;;/fileinfo.html" target=_blank>http://files.filefront.com/fuxswash12_06_2006avi/;6595322;;/fileinfo.html</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Takes all day to get him down to red takes him 4 seconds...</DIV></DIV> <DIV>7 weeks old.. im sure it's worse now that people have been getting 100 aa's for some time now</DIV>

[Jvaloth]

<P>I love how 99% of all the swashys I talk to in game, raid with, or converse with on the forums seem to think that Swashys are perfect right the way they are and don't think they are over powered in any way...</P> <P> </P> <P>There truely is nothing they cannot do.   Hell, EoF even made some encounters for them to TANK in.</P> <P>They have better defensive stance, better offensive stance, better AE range, better burst DPS, can FD, can shield their groups from AE's, debuff the living CRAP out of mob,  solo, tank,  etc...   its like playing EQ 2 w/ GOD MODE.  </P> <P>And now the dev's are making it so their AE built into their offensive stance doesnt break mez's anymore...</P> <P> </P> <P>This leads me to the conclusion that several of the developers either play a swashbuckler  or play an enchanter.... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Dorchadas]

<P>Assassins please please...... </P> <P>The devs just drew straws and said to the one withthe shortest straw "whats your favorite class?" he replied "assassin" then comes the man with the longest straw "whats your favorite?" he says "swashy" and then........ short straw's class gets killed and mister long straw's class becomes gods.</P> <P>Thats all guys dont be so mad.....</P>

[Jvaloth]

<P>haha that would make more sense than what they have done.</P> <P> </P> <P>I mean seriously, how does this kind of crap get to live servers? </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Brimestar]

<DIV>Any swashy worth his/her salt will give any assn a run for their money.  You should assume if you bump into one that En Garde is up so you better kite and run for a bit.  There will never be balance cos if their was the game would be at a stalemate, but at the same time the game shouldn't heavily favor one class while slamming the nerf bat at the other.</DIV>