My suggestions for EOF AA changes (Pls Read)

[Rian18]

<DIV>Ok before I go posting this in the achievement section, I want some input from the rest of you.  I've put quite a bit of time and thought into this and would like some input so that maybe we can get some more ideas thrown in here.  Please realize this is for the most part a first draft and so open to changes or ideas to make it more viable. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My suggestions for a complete overhaul of the Assassin EOF tree.  Most of the suggestions are small changes that when added together, work to create a viable tree for all Assassins.  I'm not asking for a CA of Instant Monster Destruction (we all know that's a Necro only ability =p).  I'm asking for little changes.  Some maybe overpowered, I'm not a dev.  I do realize the need for balance and perhaps tuning some down will be needed.  The point is their just ideas that maybe can be implemented or changed to make this game just a little bit more fun for everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Murdering Line</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 1- Changes Eliminating Enhanced Sprint AA and Replacing with NEW </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Sprint-</STRONG> Increase Sprint movement speed by 5% and reduces power cost by 5% per point for a total of 25%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict</EM>- A ridiculous AA.  For most players (not just assassins) sprint does not even have a place on their hotbar anymore.  This whole AA is patently stupid and needs to be removed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Change-</STRONG>  Replace Enhanced Sprint with a semi-useful (but by no means great ability).  Enhanced Tracking- Increases the Tracking Range of an Assassin by 5% per rank.  No one uses sprint.  People still use Track.  Giving Assassins the ability to see further then other classes brings some much needed utility to the class and is by no means game breaking in any case. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 2- Changes - Minor/None</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Honed Reflex-</STRONG>  Increases haste by 3% per. </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict;</EM>  Not a bad AA.  Definitely not something that makes much of a difference however. </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed- None.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 3 Chagnes- Minor/None</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Focus</STRONG>-Improves focus by 3 points per..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> Again not a BAD AA. Increasing the effect keeps it in line with Honed Reflexes..   The rest of it is very similiar to the Tier 2 talent Enhanced Reflexes.   Any changes made to Tier 2 should also be made to Tier 3 to keep these two talents in line with each other however.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- None,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 4 Changes- Moderate</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhance: Exacting</STRONG> - Improves reuse speed by 5sec per point for a total of 25sec reduction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> A good AA.  Anyway to get exacting up more then one time per fight is useful.  No changes needed in this ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed- NONE</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced: Deft Defense (Adroit Defense) -</STRONG> Reduces Penalties by 20% per point for a total of 100%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> Bad Ability.  At best it should be put in the tricks line as opposed to Enhanced Jugular.  Doing so would mean that no Assassin would really take both the Enhanced Defense in the tricks line and the talent I will propose to replace it with.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- NEW Ability in this Tier. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Whirling Blades</STRONG>-  Increases the chance for the Assassin to proc Swipe by 5% per level.  This will give Assassins a higher proc rate and help to up our DPS.  All other scout classes get 30% on their Offensive stances.  Giving us an AA to increase our's by 25% isn't just fair, its a must.  Its ridiculous that the "Masters" of Melee Damage have the lowest offensive stance.  Thats a change that is definitely needed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 5 Changes- Fully Changed-</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Getaway-</STRONG> Ok we all know what getaway does and the nerfing of it, was the start of all this drama.  In its current form Getaway gives the Assassin AE immunity for 30 seconds every 3 minutes and allows the Assassin to stay in Stealth and Use all CA's and Auto Attack.  Soe has said that this is a bug and it will be changed to give the Assassin AE immunity for 30 seconds every 3 minutes but allow no damage at all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> Overpowered.  Lets be honest here, every assassin knows in its current form its overpowered.  The ability to be able to stay in for 30 seconds every 3 minutes and do full damage while taking no AE damage is overpowered.  However, the changes to allowing us to do nothing is utterly ridiculous and has led to this AA now being nicknamed "Afkaway".  No Assassin in their right mind would use an AA that causes them DPS.  They could gain the same effect that Getaway gives them by just moving out of AE range as they have always done prior.  Furthermore, Jousting at least allows them to use their BOW for a bit more damage.  Getaways allows them to do nothing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>-  Getaway needs to be changed in one of two ways.  Either allow the Assassin to Autoattack while getaway is active thereby allowing us to at least use it to up our DPS by not having to joust for 30 seconds out of every 3 minutes or do away with it all together.  Personally, I think for a Tier 5 ability its still underpowered even if we remain able to auto attack, for that reason i'm for scrapping it and replacing it with the following.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>NEW Tier 5 Ability Suggested-</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Bladestrike-  I have two suggestions for this ability, as I'm not sure which one would be best.</DIV> <DIV>First- Bladestrike-<BR>Cast time .25 seconds<BR>Recast: 5 minutes<BR>Duration:8 Seconds</DIV> <DIV>Effect:  For the next 8 seconds all attacks by the Assassin are guaranteed to Crit and damage is increased by 20%.</DIV> <DIV>This would give Assassins the ability to once every 5 increase their DPS for a few seconds noticeably.  This is the type of boost many Assassins are wanting and is far from overpowering dur to its short duration.  Perhaps the recast has to be increased, not sure and it would have to be tested, but I believe the idea is solid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Idea #2.</DIV> <DIV>Bladestrike0<BR>Casttime: Instant<BR>Recast: 15 or 30 Minutes<BR>Duration- Instant</DIV> <DIV>Effect: Instantly ends the cool down on Any Ability with a Cooldown of Greater then 60 seconds. Basically this ability will allow Assassins to once every 15 or 30 minutes do a combination of Decapitate, Killing Blade, Decapitate, Killing blade.  It would also allow Assassins to once every 15 or 30 minutes get double use out of the Focus and Enhanced Reflex's line.   Even if you give it a 15 minute timer, this ability is still not equal to Manaburn or Lifeburn.  Manaburn could be used 3 times in that same 15 minute time while Assassinate would stil only be able to be used 2 times in that time period.  This is made up for by the fact that we could also use Killing blade twice.  Overall I think it balances out quite Nicely.</DIV> <DIV>Either one of those two idea's I think warrant a Tier 5 AA.  Either one would be a huge improvement over the nonsense that is Getaway.  This line could then become the "Burst DPS/Buff line" as opposed to the Bleed line which will become the Sustained DPS line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Bleed Line</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 1-Changes needed: Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhance: Scraping Blow</STRONG> - Increases Overtime Damage by 7% per point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> .  Its a tier 1 ability though an underpowered one.  Increasing the overtime damage is a very minor dps increase.  Almost unnoticeable really.  Its a good idea, just not enough put into it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- Increase the damage of scraping blow by 7% per point.  This would be a much fairer increase in DPS and would actually be a step to ensuring we remain competitve with the other dps classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 2- Changes Needed/Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Oozing Wound</STRONG>- Increases Overtime Damage by 4%</DIV> <DIV>. </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM>  A tier 2 ability that does basically the same thing the Tier 1 does but for a different ability. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed-None</STRONG>.  Due to what the ability is (a dot) it actually is ok.</DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 3-Changes Needed/Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <STRONG>Enhance Insidious Wound</STRONG>- Increases the overtime damage by 6%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict</EM>- A tier 3 ability that does what the tier 1 and 2 do but for a different skill.  This must have been the very last line developed in the game because it lacks any originality or creative thought at all.  A very underwhelming Ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed-</STRONG>  Same as Scraping blow.  Increase the damage of the CA by 6% per, not just the over time damage.  When taken in cojunction with Scraping wound and Oozing wound, it actually becomes somewhat worthwhile.  The 3 of them together as they are now are extremely underwhelming an not worth 15 points.   The only other answer is to make the tier 1 ability effect the over time damage of all 3 and coming up with 2 other new abilties for Tier 2 and 3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Exposing Mark</STRONG>- Increases Trigger chance by 1% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict- Awful AA.</EM> Certainly not worth 5 points.  In raid's Exposing mark is gone within 1 or 2 seconds as is.  This is of no use in raids, minor use in groups and a little use while solo'ing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- Minor.  Insted of increasing the trigger chance which is irrelevant increase the charges.  Each point adds 2 charges to Exposing Mark.  5/5 Increases the amount of charges by 10. This is a much fairer ability then what is currently there.  I mean for this to be  a Tier 3 ability is a joke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 4- Changes needed/Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Shadow Assault</STRONG>- Increases the overtime damage of shadow assault by 5% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM>  A new and original line of thought in this AA tree obviously.  A tier 4 ability that does exactly what the Tier 1 does is just wrong.   However, since this is the theme we are going with here I will reply with the following:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- Minor:  See Scraping blow and Insidious wounds.  Once again the total damage should be increased by 5% per point.  Not just the over time damage.  The over time damage is a very minute part of the damage.  Increasing it is an almost insignificant boost to DPS.</DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 5- Changes Needed/Major</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Bleeding-</STRONG> For each bleeding ability on the target their health is decreased by 5%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdic</EM>t- Needs to be removed.  The debuff is really meaningless and is meant mainly for raids.  Yet, even if the total health debuffed is 50,000 thats what a raid party can chew through in one or 2 seconds.</DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Changes Needed- Major</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>NEW Tier 5 AA- Double Attack</STRONG>-  Gives the Assassin a base chance to double attack on any auto attack.  The exact percentage can be worked out, though somewhere in the 10% range would seem both reasonable and fair.  How Assassins the "masters" of melee dps are not able to autoattack is beyond me.  Double attack should be first and foremost an Assassin ability as all we do is melee dps.  The fact we do not have it is a joke.  This would also fit in with the theme of the Bleed line which is increases to sustained DPS as opposed to the murdering line which is increases to burst dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Poisons Line</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 1-Changes Needed/None</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Deadfall</STRONG>- Increases the Poison resist reduction by 6% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict</EM>-  Usefull Ability.  By far the most usefull of any of the Tier 1 or 2 abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed- NONE</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 2-Changes Needed Complete Overhaul</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG><BR><STRONG>Enhanced Ignorant Bliss</STRONG>- Increases the Hate reduction by 6% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdic</EM>t- Its ok for what it does.  Problem is hate really isn't a problem for Assassins.  These are 5 points that needs to be changed with a new talent.</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed-</STRONG> None, though Grudgingly none.  To me these are still 5 wasted points.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>New Ability</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Caustic</STRONG>- Increases Caustic damage by 2/4/6/8/10%.  The spitting Image of the Ranger Ability, except instead of it being Tier 1 as it is for them its Tier 2 for us.  </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Enhanced Hemotoxin</STRONG>-Reduces the duration of your hemotoxin poison by 2/3/4/5/6 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> OMG AWFUL.  Awful. Awful. Awful.  This has been parsed.  Many times.  Even with 5/5 Hemo Caustic still wins.  Here is an example between an Assassin with 5/5 Hemo and 360 Intel and an Assassin using Caustic with 96 Intel courtesy of Kingphillywilly.  <A href="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o109/kingphillywilly/hemo.jpg" target=_blank>http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o109/kingphillywilly/hemo.jpg</A> and <A href="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o109/kingphillywilly/causticcopy.jpg" target=_blank>http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o109/kingphillywilly/causticcopy.jpg</A>.  So even with an Intel advantage of over 260...caustic still wins.  That means only one thing broken ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed:</STRONG> I thought long and hard about this one.  I know what SOE was going for with this talent and that was to increase the amount of use Hemo poisons get.  As of right now the number of Assassins using hemo sits at around zero.  Obviously, there is a problem with the system if one poison is not getting used at all.   Even with the 5 points in Hemo its still less damage then caustic so a change needs to be made.  Here is my suggestion:</DIV> <DIV>Enhanced Hemotoxin-  Gives the Assassin a 3/6//9/12/15% Chance to stack hemotoxin, up to a maximum of 3 times per Assassin.  Now this would be a useful talent and would cause alot of Assassins to have to start using Hemo instead of Caustic.  In fact I could imagine this leading to a pretty even split of 50/50 Hemo vs Caustic.  A raid may require both types to be used etc.  Now, I understand that if the numbers are wrong this ability could be extremely overpowering.   As such limiting the stacking to 3 times is a prudent measure.  Furthermore, I feel if you limit the chance of it stacking to either a 3% per point or 4% per point, the times where it would be stacked 3 times would be fairly rare, yet the times where it would stack twice would be fairly common.</DIV> <DIV>The ability for you to double and even triple dot with Hemo would make it about equal with Caustic from my math and would lead to some pretty interesting debates about which is better.  This would also lead to what SOE wanted and that was a choice between two equal poisons.  Once again the percentages and numbers may have to be changed but the idea is valid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 3- Chages Needed- None</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Attribute Poison</STRONG>:  Increases the level of attribute reduction by 5% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict:</EM> A very blase AA ability in my opinon.  Yet, I do not really see it as over or underpowered.  Its fine as it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed: NONE</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 4- Changes needed- Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Apply Poison</STRONG>- Increases Trigger chanby by 1% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> I can't believe this is a tier 4 ability.  Increasing the trigger chance by 5% for 5 points on another class is kind of silly.   Yet, it is a small increase in our miniscule amount of utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- Ok 1% to trigger just isn't enough for a Tier 4 ability.  Nowhere near enough.  If you add an increase of 2/4/6/8/10% to damage as well it becomes much more worthwhile, and more befitting a Tier 4 ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG><EM>Tier 5- Changes Needed- NONE if other changes made</EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Frontload-</STRONG> Doubles all trigger chances for 15 seconds/Usable every 3 minutes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict</EM>- As is, an ok talent.  The problem is you need to waste 20 points to get here.  And they are a waste.  The other problem is that as things stand now, the 5/5 Hemo toxin which is smack dab in the middle of the line and the doubling of trigger percentages in Frontload effectively cancel each other out.  What good is getting 5/5 Hemo if the final ability in the line makes it proc over itself so fast that the DPS gain from Hemo is never even noticed?  If the changes are made to Hemo to allow it to stack and perhaps adding the Caustic line similiar to what Rangers get then Frontload would be a very acceptable talent and would cause many Assassins to have to really consider what 2 lines they want to go down.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Trick's Line- </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>Will finish this later..................</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Rian18 on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:55 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Rian18 on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>05:46 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Rian18 on <span class=date_text>12-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:46 PM</span>

[Armill]

<DIV>I say go ahead and post in achievement section no harm in doing so, its just us giving thoughts and opinons on what could possibly work better for are AA's...of course, if i find something in your text that displeases me the heavens will start raining fire...jk</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do like your bladestrike idea though, both versions would be neat, the idea of an ability thats useable once every maybe 15 minutes to make all are abilites with huge recasts come back up would be pretty neat. And who couldn't say no to an ability that makes us crit like crazy for a few seconds, although i don't know if this one would be a possibility seeing how there is already Battlegod's Furor which lasts for a minute...I mean you could you imagine the nutsness of it all, battlegod's furor, zek's rending or whatever the +10% to reuse and damage one, plus that bladestrike ability and exacting for a total of 100% melee crits, and exacting would be like +50% to damage which would be awesome...but than again we would totally pull agro and die if said thing was ever done.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Armill on <span class=date_text>12-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:03 PM</span>

[HellRaiserXX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rian18 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok before I go posting this in the achievement section, I want some input from the rest of you.  I've put quite a bit of time and thought into this and would like some input so that maybe we can get some more ideas thrown in here.  Please realize this is for the most part a first draft and so open to changes or ideas to make it more viable.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My suggestions for a complete overhaul of the Assassin EOF tree.  Most of the suggestions are small changes that when added together, work to create a viable tree for all Assassins.  I'm not asking for a CA of Instant Monster Destruction (we all know that's a Necro only ability =p).  I'm asking for little changes.  Some maybe overpowered, I'm not a dev.  I do realize the need for balance and perhaps tuning some down will be needed.  The point is their just ideas that maybe can be implemented or changed to make this game just a little bit more fun for everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Murdering Line</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 1- Changes Eliminating Enhanced Sprint AA and Replacing with NEW </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Sprint-</STRONG> Increase Sprint movement speed by 5% and reduces power cost by 5% per point for a total of 25%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict</EM>- A ridiculous AA.  For most players (not just assassins) sprint does not even have a place on their hotbar anymore.  This whole AA is patently stupid and needs to be removed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Change-</STRONG>  Replace Enhanced Sprint with a semi-useful (but by no means great ability).  Enhanced Tracking- Increases the Tracking Range of an Assassin by 5% per rank.  No one uses sprint.  People still use Track.  Giving Assassins the ability to see further then other classes brings some much needed utility to the class and is by no means game breaking in any case.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>Not a bad idea, although I know Enhanced Sprint is really useful on PvP, cant cut them out of the loop completely. I dont care either way. Line is called Physicality now, but lets not quibble over details <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 2- Changes - Minor/None</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Honed Reflex-</STRONG>  Improves reuse speed by 8sec per point for a total of 40sec reduction.  </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict;</EM>  Not a bad AA.  Definitely not something that makes much of a difference however.  Even with the reduced duration, its rare to have it up two times for one fight.  Perhaps instead of reducing the duration, Increasing the Haste would be a fair tradeoff.  EIther way, is fine in the end however.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed- None</STRONG>, except perhaps changing the reduced duration to increased Haste</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>It has already been changed to Increased Haste... 3% per level so not sure exactly if you are meaning changing it back to improved reuse speed or your just using an old post of our AAs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 3 Chagnes- Minor/None</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Focus</STRONG>-I mproves reuse speed by 8sec per point for a total of 40sec reduction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> Again not a BAD AA. Reducing the Reuse keeps it in line with Honed Reflexes.   The rest of it is very similiar to the Tier 2 talent Enhanced Reflexes.   Any changes made to Tier 2 should also be made to Tier 3 to keep these two talents in line with each other however.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- None, except perhaps changing the reduced duration to increased DPS if changes are made to the Reflex line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>Same thing as Honed Reflexes, increases DPS by 3 per level instead of the old reuse reduction. I think most people would prefer a reuse reduction IMO. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 4 Changes- Moderate</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhance: Exacting</STRONG> - Improves reuse speed by 5sec per point for a total of 25sec reduction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> A good AA.  Anyway to get exacting up more then one time per fight is useful.  No changes needed in this ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed- NONE</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced: Deft Defense (Adroit Defense) -</STRONG> Reduces Penalties by 20% per point for a total of 100%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> Bad Ability.  At best it should be put in the tricks line as opposed to Enhanced Jugular.  Doing so would mean that no Assassin would really take both the Enhanced Defense in the tricks line and the talent I will propose to replace it with.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- NEW Ability in this Tier.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Whirling Blades</STRONG>-  Increases the chance for the Assassin to proc Swipe by 5% per level.  This will give Assassins a higher proc rate and help to up our DPS.  All other scout classes get 30% on their Offensive stances.  Giving us an AA to increase our's by 25% isn't just fair, its a must.  Its ridiculous that the "Masters" of Melee Damage have the lowest offensive stance.  Thats a change that is definitely needed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>I would do less than 5% since that would make it 35% which is higher than everyone else, no more than 4% I think.  I dont care either way on this honestly, improving Deft Defense has its uses, though not really for mainstream raiding assassins, but I wouldnt complain if it was changed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 5 Changes- Fully Changed-</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Getaway-</STRONG> Ok we all know what getaway does and the nerfing of it, was the start of all this drama.  In its current form Getaway gives the Assassin AE immunity for 30 seconds every 3 minutes and allows the Assassin to stay in Stealth and Use all CA's and Auto Attack.  Soe has said that this is a bug and it will be changed to give the Assassin AE immunity for 30 seconds every 3 minutes but allow no damage at all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> Overpowered.  Lets be honest here, every assassin knows in its current form its overpowered.  The ability to be able to stay in for 30 seconds every 3 minutes and do full damage while taking no AE damage is overpowered.  However, the changes to allowing us to do nothing is utterly ridiculous and has led to this AA now being nicknamed "Afkaway".  No Assassin in their right mind would use an AA that causes them DPS.  They could gain the same effect that Getaway gives them by just moving out of AE range as they have always done prior.  Furthermore, Jousting at least allows them to use their BOW for a bit more damage.  Getaways allows them to do nothing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>-  Getaway needs to be changed in one of two ways.  Either allow the Assassin to Autoattack while getaway is active thereby allowing us to at least use it to up our DPS by not having to joust for 30 seconds out of every 3 minutes or do away with it all together.  Personally, I think for a Tier 5 ability its still underpowered even if we remain able to auto attack, for that reason i'm for scrapping it and replacing it with the following.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>NEW Tier 5 Ability Suggested-</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Bladestrike-  I have two suggestions for this ability, as I'm not sure which one would be best.</DIV> <DIV>First- Bladestrike- <BR>Cast time .25 seconds<BR>Recast: 5 minutes <BR>Duration:8 Seconds</DIV> <DIV>Effect:  For the next 8 seconds all attacks by the Assassin are guaranteed to Crit and damage is increased by 20%.</DIV> <DIV>This would give Assassins the ability to once every 5 increase their DPS for a few seconds noticeably.  This is the type of boost many Assassins are wanting and is far from overpowering dur to its short duration.  Perhaps the recast has to be increased, not sure and it would have to be tested, but I believe the idea is solid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Idea #2.</DIV> <DIV>Bladestrike0<BR>Casttime: Instant<BR>Recast: 15 or 30 Minutes<BR>Duration- Instant</DIV> <DIV>Effect: Instantly ends the cool down on Any Ability with a Cooldown of Greater then 60 seconds. Basically this ability will allow Assassins to once every 15 or 30 minutes do a combination of Decapitate, Killing Blade, Decapitate, Killing blade.  It would also allow Assassins to once every 15 or 30 minutes get double use out of the Focus and Enhanced Reflex's line.   Even if you give it a 15 minute timer, this ability is still not equal to Manaburn or Lifeburn.  Manaburn could be used 3 times in that same 15 minute time while Assassinate would stil only be able to be used 2 times in that time period.  This is made up for by the fact that we could also use Killing blade twice.  Overall I think it balances out quite Nicely.</DIV> <DIV>Either one of those two idea's I think warrant a Tier 5 AA.  Either one would be a huge improvement over the nonsense that is Getaway.  This line could then become the "Burst DPS/Buff line" as opposed to the Bleed line which will become the Sustained DPS line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>Definately 2 pretty decent ideas, although #1 is very similar to Battle Gods Furor if you went Zek deity. I like #2 probably the best. Rewrite #2 so its easier to see what it actually does.  That big paragraph is a little hard to wrap your mind around.  Make it look like what it would say if it were in the AA tree.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Bleed Line</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 1-Changes needed: Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhance: Scraping Blow</STRONG> - Increases Overtime Damage by 7% per point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> .  Its a tier 1 ability though an underpowered one.  Increasing the overtime damage is a very minor dps increase.  Almost unnoticeable really.  Its a good idea, just not enough put into it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- Increase the damage of scraping blow by 7% per point.  This would be a much fairer increase in DPS and would actually be a step to ensuring we remain competitve with the other dps classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 2- Changes Needed/Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Oozing Wound</STRONG>- Increases Overtime Damage by 4%</DIV> <DIV>.  </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM>  A tier 2 ability that does basically the same thing the Tier 1 does but for a different ability.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed-None</STRONG>.  Due to what the ability is (a dot) it actually is ok.</DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 3-Changes Needed/Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <STRONG>Enhance Insidious Wound</STRONG>- Increases the overtime damage by 6%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict</EM>- A tier 3 ability that does what the tier 1 and 2 do but for a different skill.  This must have been the very last line developed in the game because it lacks any originality or creative thought at all.  A very underwhelming Ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed-</STRONG>  Same as Scraping blow.  Increase the damage of the CA by 6% per, not just the over time damage.  When taken in cojunction with Scraping wound and Oozing wound, it actually becomes somewhat worthwhile.  The 3 of them together as they are now are extremely underwhelming an not worth 15 points.   The only other answer is to make the tier 1 ability effect the over time damage of all 3 and coming up with 2 other new abilties for Tier 2 and 3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Exposing Mark</STRONG>- Increases Trigger chance by 1% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict- Awful AA.</EM> Certainly not worth 5 points.  In raid's Exposing mark is gone within 1 or 2 seconds as is.  This is of no use in raids, minor use in groups and a little use while solo'ing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- Minor.  Insted of increasing the trigger chance which is irrelevant increase the charges.  Each point adds 2 charges to Exposing Mark.  5/5 Increases the amount of charges by 10. This is a much fairer ability then what is currently there.  I mean for this to be  a Tier 3 ability is a joke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>Umm no... Mark is an insanely powerful ability as it is because of its instant proc rate.  With dispatch all can crit for over 1500dmg, thats 7500dmg in a couple seconds.  If I understand your use of the word charges that means it would proc a total of 15 times instead of 5. Thats of 20k dmg.  Way overpowering if I understand your use of the word charges.  TBO even an extra 5 total triggers is still pretty overpowering.  I gaurantee DPS would go up by like 5-600 with just that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 4- Changes needed/Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Shadow Assault</STRONG>- Increases the overtime damage of shadow assault by 5% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM>  A new and original line of thought in this AA tree obviously.  A tier 4 ability that does exactly what the Tier 1 does is just wrong.   However, since this is the theme we are going with here I will reply with the following:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- Minor:  See Scraping blow and Insidious wounds.  Once again the total damage should be increased by 5% per point.  Not just the over time damage.  The over time damage is a very minute part of the damage.  Increasing it is an almost insignificant boost to DPS.</DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 5- Changes Needed/Major</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Bleeding-</STRONG> For each bleeding ability on the target their health is decreased by 5%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdic</EM>t- Needs to be removed.  The debuff is really meaningless and is meant mainly for raids.  Yet, even if the total health debuffed is 50,000 thats what a raid party can chew through in one or 2 seconds.</DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Changes Needed- Major</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>NEW Tier 5 AA- Double Attack</STRONG>-  Gives the Assassin a base chance to double attack on any auto attack.  The exact percentage can be worked out, though somewhere in the 10% range would seem both reasonable and fair.  How Assassins the "masters" of melee dps are not able to autoattack is beyond me.  Double attack should be first and foremost an Assassin ability as all we do is melee dps.  The fact we do not have it is a joke.  This would also fit in with the theme of the Bleed line which is increases to sustained DPS as opposed to the murdering line which is increases to burst dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>I would say no only because the excessive bleeding goes a long with the theme of the whole line.  This whole line is supposed to deal with the DoTs, the Bleeding portion of those abilities. This ability is also pretty useful in PvP and helps somewhat with raiding and soloing.  I really cant see anyway to change the Bleeding line without defeating the original purpose of the line.  Maybe something have to do with some kind of large DoT instead of a Max Health debuff.  I wouldnt even change the other abilities so that it affects the initial dmg personally. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Poisons Line</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tier 1-Changes Needed/None</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Deadfall</STRONG>- Increases the Poison resist reduction by 6% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict</EM>-  Usefull Ability.  By far the most usefull of any of the Tier 1 or 2 abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed- NONE</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 2-Changes Needed Complete Overhaul</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG><BR><STRONG>Enhanced Ignorant Bliss</STRONG>- Increases the Hate reduction by 6% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdic</EM>t- Its ok for what it does.  Problem is hate really isn't a problem for Assassins.  These are 5 points that needs to be changed with a new talent.</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed-</STRONG> None, though Grudgingly none.  To me these are still 5 wasted points.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>New Ability</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Caustic</STRONG>- Increases Caustic damage by 2/4/6/8/10%.  The spitting Image of the Ranger Ability, except instead of it being Tier 1 as it is for them its Tier 2 for us.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>Sadly no, already in the Ranger AA line.  Like I have said in previous posts each poison using scout class got a different poison and for us to get Caustic would be an exception to that design. I do not favor anything that makes us look like we are an exception to any rule as much as I would like to have enhance caustic.  Remember all the other poison using scout classes use caustic too for the most part and they got upgrades to mental breach and vitality breach.  Why should we say we deserve to have caustic.  IMO if they give it to us they have to give it to the rogues too.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Enhanced Hemotoxin</STRONG>-Reduces the duration of your hemotoxin poison by 2/3/4/5/6 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> OMG AWFUL.  Awful. Awful. Awful.  This has been parsed.  Many times.  Even with 5/5 Hemo Caustic still wins.  Here is an example between an Assassin with 5/5 Hemo and 360 Intel and an Assassin using Caustic with 96 Intel courtesy of Kingphillywilly.  <A href="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o109/kingphillywilly/hemo.jpg" target=_blank>http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o109/kingphillywilly/hemo.jpg</A> and <A href="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o109/kingphillywilly/causticcopy.jpg" target=_blank>http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o109/kingphillywilly/causticcopy.jpg</A>.  So even with an Intel advantage of over 260...caustic still wins.  That means only one thing broken ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed:</STRONG> I thought long and hard about this one.  I know what SOE was going for with this talent and that was to increase the amount of use Hemo poisons get.  As of right now the number of Assassins using hemo sits at around zero.  Obviously, there is a problem with the system if one poison is not getting used at all.   Even with the 5 points in Hemo its still less damage then caustic so a change needs to be made.  Here is my suggestion:</DIV> <DIV>Enhanced Hemotoxin-  Gives the Assassin a 3/6//9/12/15% Chance to stack hemotoxin, up to a maximum of 3 times per Assassin.  Now this would be a useful talent and would cause alot of Assassins to have to start using Hemo instead of Caustic.  In fact I could imagine this leading to a pretty even split of 50/50 Hemo vs Caustic.  A raid may require both types to be used etc.  Now, I understand that if the numbers are wrong this ability could be extremely overpowering.   As such limiting the stacking to 3 times is a prudent measure.  Furthermore, I feel if you limit the chance of it stacking to either a 3% per point or 4% per point, the times where it would be stacked 3 times would be fairly rare, yet the times where it would stack twice would be fairly common.</DIV> <DIV>The ability for you to double and even triple dot with Hemo would make it about equal with Caustic from my math and would lead to some pretty interesting debates about which is better.  This would also lead to what SOE wanted and that was a choice between two equal poisons.  Once again the percentages and numbers may have to be changed but the idea is valid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>Its an interesting idea, but how many raids do you know of that have anymore than 2 assassins in them, if they even have 2?  With our lack of utility you would be hard pressed to convince any raid leader worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to have more than 2 assassins in any raid. As much as it sucks and is a waste, I wouldnt recommend changing it tbpo.  If you want to go the poison line and take frontload you dont have to take this ability. Still very interesting idea, the mechanics of implementing it because it requires more than 1 assassin.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 3- Chages Needed- None</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Attribute Poison</STRONG>:  Increases the level of attribute reduction by 5% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict:</EM> A very blase AA ability in my opinon.  Yet, I do not really see it as over or underpowered.  Its fine as it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed: NONE</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Tier 4- Changes needed- Minor</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Enhanced Apply Poison</STRONG>- Increases Trigger chanby by 1% per.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict-</EM> I can't believe this is a tier 4 ability.  Increasing the trigger chance by 5% for 5 points on another class is kind of silly.   Yet, it is a small increase in our miniscule amount of utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Changes Needed</STRONG>- Ok 1% to trigger just isn't enough for a Tier 4 ability.  Nowhere near enough.  If you add an increase of 2/4/6/8/10% to damage as well it becomes much more worthwhile, and more befitting a Tier 4 ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG><EM>Tier 5- Changes Needed- NONE if other changes made</EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Frontload-</STRONG> Doubles all trigger chances for 15 seconds/Usable every 3 minutes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Verdict</EM>- As is, an ok talent.  The problem is you need to waste 20 points to get here.  And they are a waste.  The other problem is that as things stand now, the 5/5 Hemo toxin which is smack dab in the middle of the line and the doubling of trigger percentages in Frontload effectively cancel each other out.  What good is getting 5/5 Hemo if the final ability in the line makes it proc over itself so fast that the DPS gain from Hemo is never even noticed?  If the changes are made to Hemo to allow it to stack and perhaps adding the Caustic line similiar to what Rangers get then Frontload would be a very acceptable talent and would cause many Assassins to have to really consider what 2 lines they want to go down.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>You dont actually have to put 5 points into hemotoxin to get to frontload, you can bypass it completly.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Trick's Line- </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>Will finish this later..................</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Rian18 on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:55 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Its a very good start and Im glad someone is actually taking the time to think of ideas along the lines of SOEs design, I tried a couldnt really come up with anything substantial.  My comments are there.  I am a little confused as to which AA tree you are looking at though.  Some of the comments seem to stem from the old AA tree on beta before the changes were made.  Nothing major just a typo.  Interested to see what else you come up with. Dont listen to Armill and post on the achievement forums yet <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lets get it worked out to a complete draft before that happens.<BR> <P>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:52 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:53 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class=date_text>12-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:55 PM</span>

[Outerspace]

Some good stuff <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I like the Bladestrike modelled on WoW's Preparation, but I also like the other one too. I long for more crit (give me a "Juggernaut" ability) but that Double Decap/KB combo would be great to make those necros and wizzys cry.I very much like hemo stacking. I think HellRaiserXX you may be a little confused by it: basically you get the poison skull and crossbones icon as your hemo procs, and as more charges proc it stacks on to it and you see a little number on the icon showing you how many procs are active. Damage from the poison reflects the number of charges that are active. Obviously if it was a direct stack, Hemotoxin would be way better than any of the other poisons (5 stacked charges would give you a 2500 tick if they all crit). But I think a stack of 5 maximum charges that can push the DoT damage up by 25% or so would be rather nice.We all want Swipe to be upgradeable, so that's a good one.Agree with all the bleeding line stuff.<div></div>

[HellRaiserXX]

<DIV>ah ok, I see now, thats not a bad idea. However, and I hate to keep stepping on your guys ideas like this, that is something new :/  Maybe have it replace frontload as a finisher, but not as something that is the general AA.  It can either have its duration reduced or its dmg increased basically. I cant stress enough to avoid changing any of the existing abilities so that they give something new unless its a finisher. It would go along with the exception to the rule thing.</DIV>

[Rian18]

Actually, bleh.  I was copy and pasting the AA descriptions from a site and didn't notice they were the old ones.   I'll change those back.  <BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by Rian18 on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:46 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><SPAN class=time_text> <P><BR></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Rian18 on <span class=date_text>12-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:48 PM</span>

[whytakemine]

You aren't taking into consideration some of those abilities that are useless to many of us would be useful to an assassin who mainly groups or solo's.  Besides, I doubt SOE is going to change anything until a good number of assassins have 100 AA's and they have a good pile of data to see how much of an effect everything really has.  And then they wont' make any core changes since they'd have to give assassins a free respec and other classes with "broken" aa lines will complain.I'm afraid we're stuck with what we have.  I'm not convinced they're complete garbage though.  I think the bleeding line has some serious potential, especially combined with the exacting AA.  I think if they took your suggestion on getaway that would be fine, although I don't see it as incredibly overpowering even the way it is now.  So you can dodge 1 AoE every fight instead of joust?  I guess on mob's with multiple severe AoE's it would be powerful, but most raid mobs I've seen only have 1 AoE that you have to joust, if that.  If that's the concern, just nerf the duration to 15s or something.<div></div>

[t0gar]

I really like the sprint to track change, a neat utility. It doesn't exclude PvP because now they can track enemies from farther away... that sounds better than sprint to me.(though i dont play PvP so /shrug) <div></div>

[Rian18]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> whytakemine wrote:<BR>You aren't taking into consideration some of those abilities that are useless to many of us would be useful to an assassin who mainly groups or solo's.  Besides, I doubt SOE is going to change anything until a good number of assassins have 100 AA's and they have a good pile of data to see how much of an effect everything really has.  And then they wont' make any core changes since they'd have to give assassins a free respec and other classes with "broken" aa lines will complain.<BR><BR>I'm afraid we're stuck with what we have.  I'm not convinced they're complete garbage though.  I think the bleeding line has some serious potential, especially combined with the exacting AA.  I think if they took your suggestion on getaway that would be fine, although I don't see it as incredibly overpowering even the way it is now.  So you can dodge 1 AoE every fight instead of joust?  I guess on mob's with multiple severe AoE's it would be powerful, but most raid mobs I've seen only have 1 AoE that you have to joust, if that.  If that's the concern, just nerf the duration to 15s or something.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually the total DPS increase from having the Bleed line fully maxxed is 33.65 DPS.  So for 20+ points you gain a grand total of 33.65 dps. On an Assassin who is parsing an even 1000 (A low number to be sure) thats an increase of 3.365% total DPS.  Thats ridiculously bad.   It costs 20+ points to get that.</P> <P>If you want the math here it is:</P> <P><BR>This is courtesy of Board Name Outerspace a lvl 70 Assassin named Ingek.  The original post can be found here;  <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=18313&page=3" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=18313&page=3</A></P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933>Right. Lets look at the actual names and numbers instead of some you just made up. The following are on my toon, right now, with 481 Strength, totally unbuffed.<BR><BR><B>Cloaked Assault (Master 1): 12s duration, 30s recast</B><BR><BR>Before: 671-1119 + 204 melee damage up front, and 204 every 2 seconds for 12 seconds without any points in the ability. 2099-2547 damage overall.<BR><BR>Enhance: Cloaked Assault (5): 671-1119 + 204 melee damage up front, and 254 every 2 seconds for 12 seconds. 2399-2847 damage overall.<BR><BR>6 ticks with an extra 50 damage gives us a massive 300 extra damage in 12 seconds.<BR><BR>BUT: This ability has a 30 second recast. Therefore the actual damage increase is 300 extra damage in 30 seconds! Thie equates to just <U>10 extra DPS per target</U>.<BR><BR><B>Deadly Wound (Master 1): 24s duration, 20s recast</B><BR><BR>Before: 331-552 + 90-151 melee damage up front, and 90-151 every 4 seconds for 24 seconds. 961-1609 damage overall.<BR><BR>Enhance: Deadly Wound (5): 331-552 + 90-151 melee damage up front, and 117-196 every 4 seconds for 24 seconds. 1123-1879 damage overall.<BR><BR>So we have 162-270 extra damage in 24 seconds.  <U>6.75-11.25 DPS increase</U>.<BR><BR><B>Flowing Wound (Master 1): 24s duration, 30s recast</B><BR><BR>Before: 74-123 + 111-186 melee damage up front, and 111-186 every 4 seconds for 24 seconds with final tick of 520-866 melee damage. 1371-2291 damage overall.<BR><BR>Enhance: Flowing Wound (5): 71-123 + 111-186 melee damage up front, and 134-223 every 4 seconds for 24 seconds, with final tick of 520-866 melee damage. 1506-2513 damage overall.<BR><BR>We have 135-222 extra damage in 30 seconds which is <U>4.5-7.4 DPS increase</U>.<BR><BR><B>Scraping Blow (Adept III): 12s duration, 10s recast</B><BR><BR>Before: 291-485 up front melee damage, and 58 every 4 seconds for 12 seconds. 465-659 damage overall.<BR><BR>Enhance: Scraping Blow (5): 291-485 up front melee damage, and 78 every 4 seconds for 12 seconds. 525-719 damage overall.<BR><BR>We have 60 damage increase every 12 seconds, which is a <U>5 DPS increase</U> overall.<BR><BR>Total DPS increase from fully specced Bleeding line on a single target in a fight lasting 30 seconds: 10 + 11.25 + 7.4 + 5 = 33.65 DPS</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933><FONT color=#ffffff>Furthermore, he illustrates his point even better here:</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933> <FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Lets look at the passive 10% double attack.</STRONG> Yes it's an end ability so it should be cool. However lets consider the situation of a raid buffed ranger with an Ancestral Sarnak War Bow hitting about 4.5k on auto attack against a fully debuffed mob. He procs 1 double attack in a minute and gains 4.5k extra damage. This works out at <U>75 extra DPS per double attack if the ranger only gets one double attack in a minute.</U> Lets say he gets an 8.5k crit on his double attack. Extra 141.6 DPS from that.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933><FONT color=#ffffff>So rangers get a passive ability which can add 75 extra DPS per double attack and thats assuming only one double attack a minute.  In other words one skill alone is worth more then double the total DPS of the entire bleed line.  If their is a crit or he double attacks more then once per minute (very likely) the dps increases doubles and triples.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933><FONT color=#ffffff>The reason Getaway is overpowered has nothing to do with the AOE immunity.  Its the fact that in its current form its an unbreakable stealth that allows you to attack for full CA and auto attack damage while not having to joust AE's.  That increase in DPS can be quite substanial.   The nerfing of it to allow no damage is just way too far gone and makes the ability utterly useless.  Why spend 20+ points speccing to an ability that you can get for free by jousting?  Jousting is something all Assassins know how to do anyway.  Also at least you can fire your bow while doing so and increase dps a little bit.  While you sit there with getaway on you do absolutely no good at all.  None. Zero.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><BR></P>

[Graton]

1. the honed line and deadly focus line in physicality should be changed back to reduced reuse timers again as opposed to increases in the haste or dps. that's much  more useful.2. 30 secs of ae immunity that essentially saves you one joust out of 3 is not overpowered. many of us have had this ability for the last several weeks and based on zone-wide parses we're hardly out of line. necromancers , rangers & assassins top the list in my guild and we're all pretty close to one another. that's with this ability.  if you want to suggest something else that's fine but I think we should ask for the ability back with a reduced duration if the devs really find it so overpowered.in fact take a look here:<font color="#66ffff">2f: Advance Warning - Your reflexes are heightened to near clairvoyance. When used in time, this ability protects your group from area effects, as long as they aren't the direct target of the effect by 3 seconds /rank (up to 15 seconds). Recast of 5 minutes.</font>that's a swashy aa - 15 sec ae immunity and it's for the entire group. 15 or 20 secs of ae immunity instead would not be overpowered.3. the bladestrike ability is attractive but  that would enhance zonewide dps much more than getaway so if getaway is overpowered..... well y'know.4. caustic vs hemo. please don't discredit our class by posting two screenshots which show a total of less than 100 hits each of the two poisons. that "analysis" you're posting proves nothing. number one the sample size is so small it's meaningless and two we know nothing about the group make ups and most importantly what each assassin's crit %age was which matters a heck of a lot more than intelligence. just based on the tiny numbers that are there the hemo assassin doesn't appear to even have the intelligence line maxed. 7 crits out of 39 hits ??  you'll look a fool if you post that and it will reflect on our class in general. please don't.secondly the hemo/assassin vs caustic/ranger thing was done to balance out the dps of the classes, they are not going back on it, so i think we should focus on things we have a hope of changing.5. frontload - yes, double procs doesn't go with hemotoxin, neither does the final ability of our fabled set - 10% more procs. it should be scrapped to increase the dmg of poisons during that time and would need to last much longer than 15 seconds to be meaningful.<div></div>

[HellRaiserXX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Graton wrote:<BR>1. the honed line and deadly focus line in physicality should be changed back to reduced reuse timers again as opposed to increases in the haste or dps. that's much  more useful.<BR><BR>2. 30 secs of ae immunity that essentially saves you one joust out of 3 is not overpowered. many of us have had this ability for the last several weeks and based on zone-wide parses we're hardly out of line. necromancers , rangers & assassins top the list in my guild and we're all pretty close to one another. that's with this ability.  if you want to suggest something else that's fine but I think we should ask for the ability back with a reduced duration if the devs really find it so overpowered.<BR><BR>in fact take a look here:<BR><BR><FONT color=#66ffff>2f: Advance Warning - Your reflexes are heightened to near clairvoyance. When used in time, this ability protects your group from area effects, as long as they aren't the direct target of the effect by 3 seconds /rank (up to 15 seconds). Recast of 5 minutes.</FONT><BR><BR>that's a swashy aa - 15 sec ae immunity and it's for the entire group. 15 or 20 secs of ae immunity instead would not be overpowered.<BR><BR>3. the bladestrike ability is attractive but  that would enhance zonewide dps much more than getaway so if getaway is overpowered..... well y'know.<BR><BR>4. caustic vs hemo. please don't discredit our class by posting two screenshots which show a total of less than 100 hits each of the two poisons. that "analysis" you're posting proves nothing. number one the sample size is so small it's meaningless and two we know nothing about the group make ups and most importantly what each assassin's crit %age was which matters a heck of a lot more than intelligence. just based on the tiny numbers that are there the hemo assassin doesn't appear to even have the intelligence line maxed. 7 crits out of 39 hits ??  you'll look a fool if you post that and it will reflect on our class in general. please don't.<BR><BR>secondly the hemo/assassin vs caustic/ranger thing was done to balance out the dps of the classes, they are not going back on it, so i think we should focus on things we have a hope of changing.<BR><BR>5. frontload - yes, double procs doesn't go with hemotoxin, neither does the final ability of our fabled set - 10% more procs. it should be scrapped to increase the dmg of poisons during that time and would need to last much longer than 15 seconds to be meaningful.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The thing is, Getaway wasnt "nerfed" cause it was overpowered it was changed cause it was bugged. I highly doubt they are changing it simply because everyone was using it and it was a nice ability. They are changing it because it was bugged after it went live and they are simply correcting the error and everyone was using it lol. What they are changing it to was how it was supposed to be. If they remove the stealth component and lower it to 15 or 20 sec than I think its plausible, but it wouldnt give us a whole lot of extra DPS I dont think since we wouldnt be able to spam stealth attacks. It would definately give us a bit more. It would also have to have at least a 3min recast if not more which would only let you use it at most twice, maybe three times on occassion, in a fight.  I think if you use it how it is now it will still give you extra DPS.  It will save you the 3sec or more that it would take to joust out and back in.  Sure you can use a bow CA but you still lose auto attack dmg and it would let you drop a big stealth attack and keep going. </P> <P>I think we got hemo simply because rangers got caustic and it was what was left over.  I do not think SOE was really trying to get assassins to use hemo.  Everything else in the game still supports using caustic. Frontload really isnt that bad if you think of it that way. Caustic procs on avg of 4.9times per minute, with frontload 9.8 avg.  In 15sec poisons generally proc twice, about every 7sec, so you are going to get an extra 2-3 procs and if they crit, thats an extra 2-3k dmg in that 15sec using GM poisons.  Thats not too shabby really.</P> <P>What I like about Bladestrike #2 is that there are quite a few encounters in EoF that require massive burns at the last 5-10% of the mobs life or else they do bad things. Would let us help out a lot more in those situations.</P> <P>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <SPAN class=date_text>12-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:55 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <SPAN class=date_text>12-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:58 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class=date_text>12-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:59 AM</span>

[cfcoat]

Something definately needs to be done.  Even with slightly toned-down versions of some of the new ideas listed here, many Assassins would be much, much happier.

[t0gar]

Really is no point in saying you can get an extra stealth off with getaway as appose to jousting. Pop concealment and all your stealth attacks are down. It shares a timer with all but PB, which masked attack shares so there's no reason to have any stealth abilities up. Just my 2 cents on the ability. <div></div>

[Graton]

<div><blockquote><hr>t0gar wrote:Really is no point in saying you can get an extra stealth off with getaway as appose to jousting. Pop concealment and all your stealth attacks are down. It shares a timer with all but PB, which masked attack shares so there's no reason to have any stealth abilities up. Just my 2 cents on the ability. <div></div><hr></blockquote>cloaked assualt is also on a different timer. getaway is indeed worthless though.</div>

[Outerspace]

Graton mate, honestly regardless of whether those screenshots provide any valid data or not it's quite obvious that hemotoxin is still useless because of the mechanics of the poison.If they have any intention of us using it, they must either change the way hemotoxin works in general (which isn't an AA ability, it's a game mechanic) or change the AA line to make the poison tick about every 2 seconds. This would be the only way we could get enough damage per charge to justify using it, but I am sure it would end up being too powerful.Your Frontload suggestion is good. I see no reason why we can't have the heightened proc rate AND more damage for those 15 seconds. After all, the recast is a few minutes and 15 seconds isn't really a long time. Alternatively if you're using Hemotoxin the charges could stack up during that 15 second period for a rather nice surge in DPS.Regardless, talking about the general AA situation aside from DPS we are lacking something "cool". Other classes get cool stuff. On my coercer I want ALL of the AA abilities. They are all useful and benefit me in PvE. All the end abilities are pretty good and I'll likely try them all. Necromancer and Wizard get cool stuff. Ranger gets at least one cool finisher. I look at the assassin setup and I just think that no time was invested in developing it into an interesting, fun and cool AA setup. Getaway was cool until they fixed it and made it offer no benefit except to the slacker that cant be arsed jousting and using his bow.<div></div>

[Jvaloth]

<P>Would like the Enhanced sprint line to increase the % of run speed applied by our Pathfinding ability.</P> <P>Theres alot of decent ideas in here,  all I know is we are in need of a 400-500 dps increase bare minimum... unless a bunch of T2-3 classes get nerfed back down to reality.</P> <P> </P>

[Criesi]

<P>Really like the idea of enhanced tracking.</P> <P>I am only a lvl 37 assassin so well below most of you and there may well be one later - but I would like to see another hate reducer, only have 2 at the moment.  I was thinking with getaway, we are placed in stealth cant move etc, which I understand it is know.  But during the time in stealth our hate is reduced by a %, so as soon as we can attack again, we can attack hard for a short duration and all CA timers are reset whilst in stealth to allow this.  May not work as I have not really raided that much at all with any of my characters.</P> <P>I just think we have been given a hard time and our DPS reduced without any other enhancements.  Most of the other T2 DPS classes can almost produce the same parses but they dont need to be in stealth, behind and up close, they can do it from range etc.</P> <P>Love my Assassin either way, just think we need to be given a break other than the AFKaway one.</P> <P> </P>