Getaway Nerfed to Afkaway on test

[Rian18]

<DIV>So just heard in assassin channel that getaway was fixed so that the "bug" that didn't break stealth upon attack was fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Great, so an actually useful ability that gave a few seconds of AE immunity while allowing the assassin to actually do its role has been nerfed into an ability which allows the assassin to do nothing while its active.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wonderful.  So if  you need to afk for 20 or 30 seconds in the middle of a fight you can hit afkaway and go grab a drink with little worry.  Outside of that, this ability now has zero use at all.  Can't attack either auto or CA all you can do is move and if your hit it breaks anyway.  Might as well joust in and out, at least you can fire off a CA or two while moving.  It beats standing there doing nothing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As suggested please /feedback this.  An excellent ability in its current form being turned into an utterly useless ability is ridiculous.  There has to be a middle ground if they believe it to be so "overpowered".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unreal.</DIV>

[Jayad]

<P>I think we can pretty much say now that all our EOF AAs are pretty bad.  Thanks, SOE!  Having two semi-useful final abilities made them mediocre.  now I'm no longer conflicted.</P>

[Graton]

that ability is now completely worthless. i mean i'd love to have a dev explain how it is even slightly useful since it allows you to do absolutely nothing. you can activate it and.... what exactly.if there's a legitimate use for this ability in this form i'd love to have it explained, otherwise it's pure junk. as you pointed out if you want to get away from an ae you could simply joust out of range and attack while doing so.also the ability itself is bugged in that it can port you into walls where you are permanently stuck when it fires off.<div></div>

[Arda]

I think it's okay that they will nerf the "stay in stealth and attack all the time" but what about the AE immunity? Nerf this as well anf the spell will become the quoted "afkaway". Absolutely worthless. Please don't put this live...<div></div>

[Rian18]

<P>As I stated in channel earlier, if lets say you and a briggy are ever in a situation where you both need to go to the bathroom, just hit afkaway and off you go while your poor briggy friend wets himself.  Then you'll see how valuable this ability is.</P> <P> </P> <P>Nial Bladestorm<BR>Lucan D' Lere</P>

[DX Hercul]

<div></div>As we can see this is a pointless AA, unless we are missing something in the description of the change....My only idea would be if assassins could think of some <font color="#ff0000">sensible</font> suggestions to make worthwile changes/improvements to this AA...Saying that i cant think of any atm.... <span><span><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span><div></div>

[Graton]

<div><blockquote><hr>DX Hercules wrote:<div></div>As we can see this is a pointless AA, unless we are missing something in the description of the change....My only idea would be if assassins could think of some <font color="#ff0000">sensible</font> suggestions to make worthwile changes/improvements to this AA...Saying that i cant think of any atm.... <span><span><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>the idea of an ae immunity that allows us to use our melee attacks makes good sense since there are increasingly more encounters in EoF where range fighting is used and jousting is not much of an option with multiple ae's.if this is considered too powerful then what about changing the duration to 20 seconds rather than 30? It takes 5 seconds to get in / out of range as it is so you're only talking about 15 seconds of fighting as it is.i honestly don't think the ability is terribly overpowered as it is.</div>

[Jvaloth]

<P>Unbelievable.</P> <P> </P> <P>Can someone highlight any AA's in EoF you are even remotely interested in?</P> <P> </P> <P>This was the only finishing EoF AA that I was working towards and its been made useless.   </P> <P> </P> <P>PATHETIC.</P> <P> </P> <P>How do these guys come up with the crap they throw at us?!!?  </P> <P> </P>

[prochu]

<DIV>Yea EOF AA sucks,but devs want to nerf it more......</DIV> <DIV>What is the use on a hide where u cant atack but u are inmune to aes for 30 secs??is better to go back and use u bow so u will avoid aes and u will do DPS.</DIV>

[GerOcrana]

<P>i didnt take that skill, currently jousting but no attack when Getaway is active is a bad joke -.-</P> <P>Assassin´s have more useless AA Skills in EoF ive ever seen. The Best Tree to take the choice was KoS Archievement Tree... and the EoF is pointless and useless </P> <P> </P> <P>Please say me the reason why should choose the defense stance archievement upgrade ? bad joke SOE. Or Rangers got Primary Skill Upgrades and Assassin´s can upgrade the secondary skills. </P> <P><-- Currently Laughing out about EoF Archievement System for Assassin´s</P> <P>Frontload = nice idea but crappy skill</P> <P>Getaway = nice idea but "now" crappy skill</P> <P>repeated stapping = the same</P> <P>nice so much useless Upgrades /thumbs up, come on devs go on. One Year Later and the Assassin is deadnerfed :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Bugah]

Well hell....I was just 6 points away from getting this.  Now I have no idea where I am going to go with my second line.  Maybe I'll give frontload a chance.  Bleh, not a happy camper right now.<div></div>

[Outerspace]

Just 1 point away from it. Pretty disappointing to say the least.<div></div>

[Computer MAn]

Our guilds other Assaassin and I had a pretty long discussion about our AA's now and we really couldn't come up with a setup that really helps. While rangers get a better proc % on their offensive stance we get defensive stance and while Rangers get 10% ranged double attack we get nothing comparible. I am generally not one to complain about a class vs another class I am really seeing a discrepancy between the 2 classes now. I am still convinced the best kept secret of KOS was the Ranger as many complained about the awfulness of the class they stil remained a pretty good class under skilled hands.<div></div>

[Obsi]

<P>Whoooooo now we get a wonderfull skill that allow us to not be hit by AE if we do .... nothing in the next 30 sec ! Double cheer for the dev who made that one.</P> <P>Let me gues when u are out of ideas on how devellop a class you make a pool in a magazin or what ? Who the hell on EQ2 develloppement team could even come up with such stupid ability ? </P> <P>COME ON  ! Stand still and do nothing ? </P> <P><FONT color=#cc66cc>I will tell you a secret : i cheat and i have a skill that allow me to do 0 dps and avoid AE. I use it since game release and actually even before ... it costs me no power and reuse is 15 sec ! Yeah trust me !  and this wonderfull skill is named " back and forth ".   Yes ! Trust me and guess what ? I dont even need to make a macro for it !</FONT> I hope i wont be kicked out of the game for cheating and using an ability we got only in EoF in the end.   Oh by the way i have some other ability like that if u ever need some suggestions for the next expansion.</P> <P> Omg SOE i love you ! It is so pathetic right now that it starts to be even funny to figures out with one next good usefull ability you gonna turn in something utterly stupid.  Wait what about this : Evac evac the assassin only ... oh wait i have a better one make our stealth non movable only ? What you think about that one   uh  ? .... ohh better one : you give us a skill that allow us to find the back of the mob !   OMG that one would be ubber dont you think ? after all we have so many abilities that requires us to be behind ... a skill that would tell us " the back of your ennemy is this way " .... wow ubber.</P> <P> </P> <P> Now if we ever can get some consideration from someone who actually have the slightest idea of the needs of Assassin community, or spend a lil time in actually reading those boards, it would be great to revert this ability back ot his previous form ... </P> <P>Oh and while you at it double check others.  I am still in love with the Def stance enchancement or the Mastery strike reuse ability reducer.They deserve a nerf i think :smileywink:</P> <P> </P> <P> God guys learn things, do your job ! You have access to logs you have unlimited access to a large amount of data. You can check parses from most raids, you can check wich class complete wich quests step the most, if its solo, grouped or raided ... you have so large amount of data at disposal and you come up with THIS ?  All that those numbers tells you is this skill isnt working as intended, the assassin still do something for 30 sec ! Lets nerf it ! </P> <P> PLEASE ! </P> <P>Final word ?</P> <P>Next patch note : Assassins - Gateway now work as a self evac spell combined with an freeze of 20 sec. By the time assassin reach the encounter again, his dps should be in line with the other bards as intended.</P><p>Message Edited by Obside on <span class=date_text>12-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:19 AM</span>

[prochu]

<P>it is easy,SOE want that casters and rangers be the best dps in this expansion.</P> <P>first they nerfed AR from brigand,after they reduced resist of all equipment and now we got nerfed the only usefull aa that we got in eof.</P> <P>why cant we got 10 % double atacks instead of double stabb?</P> <P>why cant we got aa for our ofensive instead defensive?( <FONT color=#ff3300>BTW all scout class have ofensive stances with 30 % proc but assassin have 10 % i dont know why.many people have asked it to devs and THEY NEVER HAVE ANSWERED WHY OUR OFFENSIVE IS 10% AND EVERY SCOUT IS 30 % ?it could be that our ofensive do more damage but ranegrs get the same damage but 30 %</FONT>)</P> <P>but i know that it is useless speak here because devs dont read it or only ignore it </P>

[Aristotel]

<DIV>Thank You SOE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please explain WHY YOU GIVE AN MELEE DD a 30sec AE-Avoidance but I cannot do anything in this period of time....how stup id is that??? Useless AALine. Dont care anymore March 27 will come.</DIV>

[GerOcrana]

<P>come on SOE , dont kill the Assassin with Stupid nerfes like : </P> <P>*Def Stance (Reason : 99,9% of all Assassin World Wide use the ** Offense Stance **</P> <P>* 10% Triggerchance for enhanced Damage Proc versus all other Scouts with 30%</P> <P>*Hemotoxin for Melees is useless versus instant Poison Damage*</P> <P>*Frontload 15 Sek Short Time Buff for own Assassin Abilities (sorry that is a bad joke, isnt worth a AA-Special)</P> <P>*all others incl. Pet Casters got AA Skills and Ups like Primary Skills and we got Secondary Upgrades (Melee DoT Ticks)</P> <P>*Getaway, 1 AE Immune Trigger in that time is active to drink something ( we are Melee Damage-Dealers )</P> <P>*100% Recovery Timer versus 0,25 Skillbreaks when Chaining is poor, no additional Bonuses. Not worth as a AA-Special - wasted points.</P> <P> </P> <P>I feel it, after that all EoF Archievements like a DoF - Assassin, the peeps takes Wizards or Pet Casters into Raids as an Assassin. The Tree is a hit in every Assassin´s face and the Dev´s should think one Minute or longer. The AA Tree is really really unfair versus all other DD-Classes <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by GerOcrana on <span class=date_text>12-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:26 AM</span>

[prochu]

<P>i agree with u,assassin arent the best dps right now.</P> <P>i have read many post of assassin telling that : o yes we are the best dps still if u arentit is because u sucx i am first on parses allways i am a god oh yes pray to me.</P> <P>but the fact is that wizard,necro,swas or ranger wiill do the same dps or more than assassin with the same quipment,skills,masters spells,buffs than they.</P> <P>it is easy,if u win in every parse it is because u have better buffs than they,or they are slaking.</P> <P>and casters can get +500 or so damage on every nuke with augs and equipment ,and whithmore aa they will do more dps still but the fact is that we wont get more dps with aa or augsmentations.</P> <P>i dont know because SOE have done many effects and augs with more damage and healls with spells and not with more damage on CA or melle attack(ohhhhh yes we got +12 damage on weapons augs ohhhhhh ty soe)</P> <P>other thing ,dps aug is 10 % and haste 2 % why?(could be that assassin dont need dps because we have selfbuffs and we havent haste buff)</P> <P>the reality is that SOE havent nerfed to assassin with this expansion,but every class have been upgraded and got better dps or heals and assassin is doing the same dps than before</P> <P> </P>

[UberC]

I do not think that getaway being nerfed is the main issue, its the fact that the other lines offer so little that something like this happening makes the masses realise just how poorly thought up and constructed the EoF assassin AAs are. I have the bleed line, and I am happy with that, I play an alt for the most part when not raiding now, as I simply do not care enough about the other lines to grind/quest the AA.<div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<P><BR>great isnt it why dont they just take ae avoidance out completely ?</P> <P>you can bet your life getaway got nurfed cos us brigands wanted our ar to perform the same as getaway so they thought oohhh no !</P> <P>its not losing the avoidance that annoys me its the lack of giviing 2 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s about anyones class , nurf here nurf there ...</P> <P>rain check soe LEAVE THE SCOUTS ALONE GO PICK ON THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SUMMONERS KK ? MOVE ALONG ? TX BYE BYE NOW !</P> <P>/Annoyed Brigand </P> <P>p.s for the love of the gods soe leave getaway as IT IS and thats coming from a brigand !</P>

[Outerspace]

Aye it's pretty mad. I can't see any benefit to this whatsoever. Easier just to move backwards out of range and shoot arrows than take this pointless, wank, AA end ability.<div></div>

[AratornCalahn]

<div></div>Yup it sucks now, a bit like our Safehouse lol It should have been left alone IMO Although Getaway is still better as pure AOE avoidance than AR is [Removed for Content]. <div></div><p>Message Edited by AratornCalahn on <span class=date_text>12-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:20 PM</span>

[Brizlyn]

<P>The dev who designed this AA with the intention of making it completely useless should fire themselves from SOE right NOW and save us all from future grief like this.  </P> <P>As for all the discussion about what class is the highest DPS, we all know that predators and mages are tier 1, and Necro's/Conj's/Swashy's are tier TWO dps right?</P> <P>What?</P> <P>A necro should always win the parse if they know what they are doing?  A conj should win often, and a swashy should win if they are trying?</P> <P>I thought they were tier 2?</P> <P>ROFL</P> <P>I love necros dps, but SOE completely [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up when it came to trying to design tiered DPS because they had different people working on every class and not coordinating anything.  It's a joke.  At this point I just go with the flow and do my best to beat the T2 dps classes.</P> <P>What keeps me in the game are the raids and environmental content, if my membership was based on character mechanics, well....poof</P>

[HellRaiserXX]

<DIV>I was ok with how AAs were on Beta, I was still ok with how they were updated early in live, but this takes the cake. I am not taking any of the line finishers now, just going to spread my points as best I can among the most useful AAs in each line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or new AAs have gone from pretty sucky to sucky to omg [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] am I supposed to put my AAs into NOTHING IS GOOD! I dont know what SOE is thinking, but anything we get next expansion better be really [Removed for Content] I N G amazing or its just not going to be a good thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassins are probably the most fun of any class to play and we have been shafted pretty good in EoF. Not a happy customer right now. </DIV>

[judged_one]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here we go again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have you not learn after DoF. As it stands, assassin is going to be gimped again !</DIV> <DIV>Once you factor in 100AA Assassin will be inferior to ranger and swashy. Anyone on the Dev actually tried this AA out and actually spend half a second thinking about this. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly Scott, </DIV> <DIV>How can you expect any class to spend 21 AA to get a 30 sec time out. To sit there. Tell you what, I can just be 40 meters away for 30 sec. IT makes no different with or without the skill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How can you expect Assassin to spend 21 AA to get a 15 sec to double a 1.8 sec/min rate and 25% poison proc?</DIV> <DIV>In case you are not aware of that Dirge gets a perma ability to do that in their AA for group.(So same 21 AA) and we get a 21 second.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How can you not let us enchance any of our class defining ability.</DIV> <DIV>Last I check Dirge got upgrade to CoB, Swashy-Inspiration, Brigand-dispatch.. So Assassin get what? some pathetic enchance to Frontal DoT that borderline useless. Also we don't want debuff, we want damage. If I wanted debuff I would have rolled a debuff scout, hence swashy or brigand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stamina debuff is not for assassin. 21 to debuff 4% max HP is a joke. It is only 150dps ish compare that to Mana burn and Life burn.</DIV> <DIV>Like I said before, leave the debuff to the debuffing class. WE ROLL ASSASSIN TO DO DAMAGE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Class define skill screwed.</DIV> <DIV>What makes assassin special and fun is the BIG DAMAGE, long recast factor. WELL guess what, we no long have high hit, or even parse first. Thanks to</DIV> <DIV>the genious that decided to make something that do more 3xdamage to decap on a 5 min timer. How is that even fair. Hello Ice-Nova, Mana-burn.</DIV> <DIV>Talk about caving in to complain, so lets all roll wizard and stand 40 feets out of aoe range(warlock AA to decrease AOE RAnge) and nuke safely.</DIV> <DIV>How is that different than brigand AR. And you nerf Brigand hard for that. What about Reach and the 5 m max range to avoid most short range aoe.</DIV> <DIV>Talk about lack of in-sight to the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Serious, take a min look at the class and think.</DIV> <DIV>How on earth do you take an already overpowered class Necro and give them the most powerful DPS tool. Are you guys insane.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well if this change go thro I will have to serious consider continue playing this game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Merkad]

Without meaning to derail this thread, as it does seem to be legit (that skill does sound lame now), I would like to make a minor correction.Rangers do not get an offensive stance AA. Ours is probably the same as yours, a 20% reduction on penalties (5 ranks) on our Defensive Stance. I am wondering if this mis conception may be from the Ranger Fabled "set" pants? They *do* have an 8% proc chance increase to our Offensive Stance. Currently, my stance (M1) reads 518 damage at 30%, iirc yours had a little variance and a higher top end possibility, but I think the real reason for the difference (Predator only) in proc chance is the delay of our weapons versus yours, 10% would really suck for us. Who knows for the Rogues.We do get the 10% double ranged attack, but just to preempt someone (hopefully not needed) it only works on auto attack.Anyways, good luck with your fight, probably an uphill battle, but better than a cliff face.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.<div></div>

[Computer MAn]

<div><blockquote><hr>Merkades wrote:We do get the 10% double ranged attack, but just to preempt someone (hopefully not needed) it only works on auto attack.<hr></blockquote>Our ranger was telling me you can increase the proc % on your offensive stance proc and 10% chance to double attack for 7k is still a pretty big number.</div>

[AratornCalahn]

<blockquote><hr>Merkades wrote:Without meaning to derail this thread, as it does seem to be legit (that skill does sound lame now), I would like to make a minor correction.Rangers do not get an offensive stance AA. Ours is probably the same as yours, a 20% reduction on penalties (5 ranks) on our Defensive Stance. I am wondering if this mis conception may be from the Ranger Fabled "set" pants? They *do* have an 8% proc chance increase to our Offensive Stance. Currently, my stance (M1) reads 518 damage at 30%, iirc yours had a little variance and a higher top end possibility, but I think the real reason for the difference (Predator only) in proc chance is the delay of our weapons versus yours, 10% would really suck for us. Who knows for the Rogues.We do get the 10% double ranged attack, but just to preempt someone (hopefully not needed) it only works on auto attack.Anyways, good luck with your fight, probably an uphill battle, but better than a cliff face.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.<div></div><hr></blockquote>The only thing I read was a observtion that all scouts have a 30% damage proc on thier offensive stances other than assassins and I doubt its because of weapon delay... Also double attack of ANY kind only works on auto attack so that isnt exactly a point. Anyway, continue with the SOE flaming.<div></div>

[Malandrin]

<DIV>Devs have a ridiculous obsession with assassin speed. They just want us to move faster in combat and out of combat (with that silly bonus sprint AA).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A suggestion for devs: don't change more AAs, simply delete them. At least we will get more room in the AA tree.</DIV>

[Hadanelith]

<P>I can't believe that NOBODY realizes what the -Intended Use- of this Ability was supposed to be.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=17941&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=17941&view=by_date_ascending&page=1</A></P> <P>Please. Read. It's meant as a way to dodge an AoE once every 90 seconds and then immediately launch a Stealth attack. Given that many AE's are on either 30s or 45s timers, that means you get to dodge a fairly good number of them... and if they're timing to be within 5s of each other, congrats, you get to dodge both if you're smart!</P> <P> </P> <P>-Hadanelith Raswrolski of Kithicor</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>PS: By no means am I saying that the INTENDED functionality makes the cost to get to it worth the while =p Just pointing out that it was clearly never meant to let us dodge AOE's 33% of the time and maintain our full DPS.</P>

[prochu]

<DIV>i dont know who told that 10 % prok for bows is lesser than 10 % for dual wields.proks works in base of delay so fast weapon prok lesser than slow weapon so your 30 % ofensive stance would be 60 % or so with 7 second bow (because 30 % is with3 second delay)so your 30 % ofensive would be around 30 % or so with duals wields (3 second delay)so i can tell you and to USELESS DEVS INCOPETENTS THAT DONT KNOW HOW WORK PROKS STILL that our 10 % is  10 % prok with 3 second delay weapons that with bows would be 20 % or so ,so i dont know why ranger get the same damage with their ofensive than assassins but they get 30 % and our 10% (btw swas andbrigand have 30 % also in their stances)another thing abouy rangers/assassins spells:dps buff of assassin have the same duration and recast than rangers one but our is 65 % or so and rangers is 100 % why?i dont know but devs never have answered and wont do it.</DIV> <DIV>speaking now of getaway ,it is useless ,someone have told that u can time AOE so it is usefull SURE BUT IF U CAN TIME IT (it is hard because u never know when someone have used any debuff to delay AOES)IT WILL BE BETTER RUN AUT AND USE BOW so it is useless,it is only usefull as insta hide to do stealth attacks (yes u have heard good instant hide with 1,30 minuts recast very usefull.....)</DIV> <DIV>BTW i just see that fabled legs of rangers set have 8% more to proc on ofensive and ours have 60 more dmg to eviscerate...</DIV> <DIV>LOL that is 60 more dmg per minute and they have at least one proc per minute whit that 8% and that is at least 700 dmg.</DIV> <DIV>It is easy SOE want to nerf us in this expansion but dont want to admit it,for example almost all scouts have a lot of haste but very low dps or 0,and we are the only scout with a lot of dps but 0 haste and what thought SOE to nerf that? they did that haste augs only give 2% of useless haste and dps augs give 10% dps so all scouts can get a nice dps from here that they really need it but we can get a useless amount of haste.</DIV> <DIV>If they want to nerf us because we was doing same dps that other class that dont need heals meanwhile we need it at least they could say it on every update that nerf us</DIV> <DIV>one proof more about that devs dont thing a lot of on us or cant coordine the designers very well is that we have our poison AA is for hemotoxin( a dot poison)but the fabled set gives 10% more chance to proc poisons so?we get a upgrade for hemotoxin but poisons will proc more so hemotoxin wont last a lot of and dmg will be less.we should have DD poison aa or the efect on fabled set should be more dmg on poisons or double atack as others <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by prochuvi on <SPAN class=date_text>12-13-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:53 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by prochuvi on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:19 AM</span>

[Rian18]

<DIV>There is an easy solution to this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Open up the AA tree's.  Sorry our EOF aa's are useless.  Utterly.  Its bad enough when we are trying to pick the least bad of the group instead of the most useful.  When that happens its a failure in <STRONG><EM>design.</EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The answer is open up the AA tree's.   Allow classes to spend their 100 AA points in whatever tree they like.  Looking over at it again last night, I would without a shadow of a doubt rather spend 50 more AA points maxxing out say the Sta/Wis lines then putting even 1 point into EOF AA's.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just don't understand some of the EOF AA's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Necro's getting lifeburn.  Wizards getting Manaburn (have we learned nothing from Manaburn in EQ1? DO the dev's not remember the hordes of 6 wizard groups running around one shotting raid Kunark raid mobs?)  Is that what this game is going to devolve too again? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE needs to realize, their is a reason why their down to a couple hundred thousand subscribers and WOW is climbing with over 7 million.   People stay here and play for the community, and the friends they make.   Yet, as more and more friends leave for WOW or wait to leave for Vanguard it makes it harder to stay.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQII is a pretty decent game, but if SOE keeps up with its lack of explanations as to why things are being done and refuses to listen to its player base, they may well find that soon enough their won't be anyone left to complain about whether they think something is fair and balanced or not.  Their is a 20 page thread on the Briggy forums about AR with <EM><STRONG>NO RESPONSE</STRONG> </EM>from dev's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can say what you want about WOW, but read their forums.  Something goes live on test, people believe its not balanced and their is a 20 pages thread about it and <STRONG><EM>DEVS </EM></STRONG>respond and answer the questions.  Always, every time.  They communicate.  They explain why they feel its necessary, and that either calms every one down or they listen to the concersn of their players and wind up not putting in the changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The perfect example of this is the Mage talent revamp a few months ago.  The first Talent tree was awful.  The mages all complained, dev's answered their questions and they redid the whole [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] tree.  Some of the abilities were even similiar to the one's players thought off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats why they have 7 million players.  Thats why EQII has 300,000.   I've played both games, and I do really believe EQII is the better game.  I just need to decide whether I like it so much more that I'm willing to be treated as a non factor instead of a paying customer.  WOW at least has proven they listen, why won't SOE?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Rian18 on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:11 AM</span>

[Aristotel]

<P><STRONG>/agree Rian18.</STRONG> You have explained it very good. </P> <P>EQ2 is a very good game, but you make always the same mistakes SOE. Our AA tree is nearly useless and for sure not what i have expected, as you can see in this thread I am not alone. A lot of us like their classes because of their styles and how to play etc but you change that too often with too many classes, an Assassin is a killer, from stealth with top dps with nearly no use except...dps, then give us dps not such strange und useless abilities. Thats annoying and thats a reason for me to leave this game.</P>

[judged_one]

Rian I agree totally. We went through t5, and t6. Finally we are able to do our job in t7. And now welcome to t7.5.Once again, I have the same feeling that assassin is going to be secondary class to play again.Here are some suggestions:Backstab line1-Puncture blade -reduce recast time x sec/rank2-Eviscerate -reduce recast time x sec /rank3-Slaughtersault + Cloacked assasult -increase x%damage 4-Stfile -remain increase stfile timer5-Concealment - increase x% damage per rank and increase x durationFinal-Decapitate - if taget is below 20% decap will do 100% more damage Melee line1-Haste - reduce recast time x sec/rank2-DPS Buff - Increase x sec/rank3-Cripple - Reduce x sec /rank4-Self DPS Buff - Add x%Haste to dps buff5-Dot - All Dot increase by x%6-exacting - same as nowFinal-Repeat Stabbing: Each sucessful melee attack will increase next attack by 5% DPS. PermabuffPVP-line1-Run speed2-Snare increase x sec/rank3-Root increase x sec/rank4-Defensive buff +hp /rank5-Elude recast x sec/rank or can't target assassin for x secFinal-Shadow for x duration assassin will be invisible (Both stealth or see invis) Assassin will drop shadow if CA is used or dmg is taken 5 min recastPoison Expert line1-Poison debuff +x2-Apply poison - able to cast on any target3-Caustic - increase proc rate by x%/rank4-Debuff poison - same as now5-Poison efficency(sp) - All poison will gain x % charge on them.Final- deadly venom- For 12 sec assassin will proc poison on successful CA or Melee attack. 5 min recast I can dream, can I?<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:54 AM</span><p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:55 AM</span>

[prochu]

<P>easy and fast changes:</P> <P>-instead add % damage to dots do it to the dot and dd (full spell not only dot)</P> <P> -delete repeat stabbing it is useless and give us 5 % double attack as rangers get</P> <P>-change hemotoxin aa and do it for caustic because if our fabled set give 10 % more on poison prok hemotoxin poison is useless so change aa or change out set to 10 % double attack</P>

[Computer MAn]

<div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:Rian I agree totally. We went through t5, and t6. Finally we are able to do our job in t7. And now welcome to t7.5.Once again, I have the same feeling that assassin is going to be secondary class to play again.Here are some suggestions:Backstab line1-Puncture blade -reduce recast time x sec/rank2-Eviscerate -reduce recast time x sec /rank3-Slaughtersault + Cloacked assasult -increase x%damage 4-Stfile -remain increase stfile timer5-Concealment - increase x% damage per rank and increase x durationFinal-Decapitate - if taget is below 20% decap will do 100% more damage Melee line1-Haste - reduce recast time x sec/rank2-DPS Buff - Increase x sec/rank3-Cripple - Reduce x sec /rank4-Self DPS Buff - Add x%Haste to dps buff5-Dot - All Dot increase by x%6-exacting - same as nowFinal-Repeat Stabbing: Each sucessful melee attack will increase next attack by 5% DPS. PermabuffPVP-line1-Run speed2-Snare increase x sec/rank3-Root increase x sec/rank4-Defensive buff +hp /rank5-Elude recast x sec/rank or can't target assassin for x secFinal-Shadow for x duration assassin will be invisible (Both stealth or see invis) Assassin will drop shadow if CA is used or dmg is taken 5 min recastPoison Expert line1-Poison debuff +x2-Apply poison - able to cast on any target3-Caustic - increase proc rate by x%/rank4-Debuff poison - same as now5-Poison efficency(sp) - All poison will gain x % charge on them.Final- deadly venom- For 12 sec assassin will proc poison on successful CA or Melee attack. 5 min recast I can dream, can I?<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:54 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:55 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Some pretty good idea's here although I think some of the end abilities would be a little bit overpowered <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. WTB 60k Decap!</div>

[K'aldar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Computer MAn wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:Rian I agree totally. We went through t5, and t6. Finally we are able to do our job in t7. And now welcome to t7.5.Once again, I have the same feeling that assassin is going to be secondary class to play again.Here are some suggestions:Backstab line1-Puncture blade -reduce recast time x sec/rank2-Eviscerate -reduce recast time x sec /rank3-Slaughtersault + Cloacked assasult -increase x%damage 4-Stfile -remain increase stfile timer5-Concealment - increase x% damage per rank and increase x durationFinal-Decapitate - if taget is below 20% decap will do 100% more damage Melee line1-Haste - reduce recast time x sec/rank2-DPS Buff - Increase x sec/rank3-Cripple - Reduce x sec /rank4-Self DPS Buff - Add x%Haste to dps buff5-Dot - All Dot increase by x%6-exacting - same as nowFinal-Repeat Stabbing: Each sucessful melee attack will increase next attack by 5% DPS. PermabuffPVP-line1-Run speed2-Snare increase x sec/rank3-Root increase x sec/rank4-Defensive buff +hp /rank5-Elude recast x sec/rank or can't target assassin for x secFinal-Shadow for x duration assassin will be invisible (Both stealth or see invis) Assassin will drop shadow if CA is used or dmg is taken 5 min recastPoison Expert line1-Poison debuff +x2-Apply poison - able to cast on any target3-Caustic - increase proc rate by x%/rank4-Debuff poison - same as now5-Poison efficency(sp) - All poison will gain x % charge on them.Final- deadly venom- For 12 sec assassin will proc poison on successful CA or Melee attack. 5 min recast I can dream, can I?<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:54 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:55 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Some pretty good idea's here although I think some of the end abilities would be a little bit overpowered <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. WTB 60k Decap!</div><hr></blockquote>I was thinking that too, until i remembered that wizards get manaburn on a 5min recast (can do around 60k dmg), and fusion on a 3min recast (can do 20-30k, on up to 3 mobs)... so i hardly think that doubling decapitate's dmg with the under 20% requirement, on a 10min(if you have perfectionist) recast would be overpowered at all. to be honest tho i'd rather have that same description, applied to killing blade.  also decap should be raised in general, or lowered in recast to 5min.   All just suggestions mind you. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Brizlyn]

<P>Manaburn does quite a bit more than 60k with the right debuffs...</P> <P>Our wizzy hits for between 70-80k fairly often with it.<BR><BR>I think our guild should  recruit a 6 pack of wizzy's now...for that extra 400k to 500k smack!!  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Kimira]

Any raiding wizard that gets manaburn clearly doesen't understand how to maximize dps <div></div>

[t0gar]

These AA's are just pathetic... On the up side we can start challenging people to races for plat and with our sprint AA's how can we lose? Give me a break Sony... I made a wizard alt and they had 6 different final AA's. They had USEFUL abilities. What's with the scout hate and the mage love? Mages get so many adornments to boost their spell dmg... we get our one nerfed. Well we still have safe fall... wait, what? People take less dmg from falling now? And you can buy an adornment to reduce it even further? And there's a race that doesn't even take damage? Well atleast we still have our DPS... what? We get our [Removed for Content] kicked now? Hmm, well they surely gave us some utility... no? Well atleast we still have some AoE avoidance... no? Well surely they reduced the damage taken... they boosted it? Well our avoidance will still save us... it wont? As long as our resists are still ok... they suck? So we rock soloing now... no? Well atleast we miss less now... not even that? Say hello to the Assassin, gods of pathfinding and ninja masks! <div></div>

[K'aldar]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Kimirahi wrote:Any raiding wizard that gets manaburn clearly doesen't understand how to maximize dps <div></div><hr></blockquote>not true.. our wizard uses it as a finisher, tops the dps chart.  with totem of the beholder, a lvl 70 drink, 3 different canni spells, and a troub in their group  they can get up enough power already to throw out spells for the next fight np.. rinse and repeat.  our wizard jumped from #5 raidwide parses to tied for #1 pretty much just because of manaburn.  not sure how that's wrong for a raiding wizard to be doing more dps?you can tell when she uses it too.. she jumps from a 1600 avg dps to over 3k <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Edited to show different power regen methods.</div><p>Message Edited by K'aldar on <span class=date_text>12-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:57 AM</span>

[K'aldar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Brizlyn wrote:<div></div> <p>Manaburn does quite a bit more than 60k with the right debuffs...</p> <p>Our wizzy hits for between 70-80k fairly often with it.I think our guild should  recruit a 6 pack of wizzy's now...for that extra 400k to 500k smack!!  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>i've never seen our wizard hit over 60k with it.. and our guild has a ton of debuffers.  care to elaborate which classes would be best to get hits like that?</div>

[K'aldar]

didn't feel like editing, so sorry about the new post.Are you sure its debuffs, or does your wizard save all her power for one manaburn hit?  that could be the difference as well since our wizard casts up til she uses manaburn as a finisher move, so maybe yours just has alot more power to burn.<div></div>

[Jayad]

<P>I've seen ours hit for 80-90k.  Usually on a quick fight as a finisher when they still have a lot of power and the mob is debuffed hard.  More typical is on the 25-50k range at the end of the fight with less power.</P> <P>With good drink, totems, a troubie, FT, it's not hard to be able to use manaburn pretty regularly for a lot of dmg.</P>

[Blindrage]

Last I checked Drink and Totems didn't work in-combat.  Anyway, on the subject of the post please fix our JACKED UP AAs, or lack there of.

[Jayad]

They work between combat, though.  We were talking about using manaburn as a finisher.

[TwistedFaith]

Assasins are still VERY good dps no doubt about that, the only difference between Assasins and Rangers now is that the gap between the classes has been closed or neared so that rangers are now on a more equal footing.No offence but thats how it is supposed to be between the predator classes, both pretty much equal in DPS. Though again it takes a very good ranger with a stupidly rare bow(s) in order to compete with a well played assasin.Point is moot anyway, necro's in my opinion own this game for DPS.

[ChildofHate]

<P>chalk up my vote as well to add to the total count for revamping the Assassin AA's, how ineffective they are at this level and how unbalanced they are compared to the aa's other classes have access to.  Even if Get-away is fixed (read as not nerfed), that makes ONE aa for assassins that is worthwhile.  Hooray for Choice!  </P> <P>(read the following with blaring obnoxious car dealership announcer commercial voice)</P> <P>You, the assassin community can pick one aa line that is kinda good or any one of the other 4 which is absolutely useless for your entire assassin tree!  Act now and we will throw in secondary wrothless rat pet for your enjoyment!  Be the first in your guild to prove just how useless you really are for your next raid!  CSR's are standing by to patronize you, hoping you'll think they really want to hear your comments.  Don't delay, call now!</P> <P>A little overboard maybe but if it got a chuckle, that's all that matters.  It's easy to make lite of the situation because of how ludicrous it really is but ultimately, something needs done SOE.  some sort of Dev commentary on this thread would be much appreciated.  (though i know it wont happen)  And a simple "it's being looked into" isnt really what's needed.  That ranks up there with "CSR's are standing by to patronize you, hoping you'll think they really want to hear your comments.  Don't delay, call now!"</P> <P>Little help here please...  well, actually... A LOT of help here please.</P> <P>Thanks.</P>

[HazNpho]

I hate to sound repetitive, but to me, it looks like sony is now one step closer to getting rid of us. Already on the character creation screen we are alone, and under... What subclass now? While ranger is still under predator, hmm... somethings broken here, and I think its the dev's heads. You ask whats the point of an Offensive Stance increase? Well, under the new selection we are a swashy/brig type, which means we are a scout tank... Makes perfect sense to me, that is if you want to be nothing more then a paper tank. We don't have the Mit/Stuns/Frontal Attacks to be a tank-wannabe like the brigs/swashes, but here we are... Giving us skills that make us more independent and less wanted in groups.I voiced this same bit when I hit my 40's, and you all said it gets better in the 50's and 60's, indeed the 50's were great, at 58 (Pre-EoF), I was outparsing what I'm doing at 65 (Post-EoF). And now my concern of the 40's comes back... Is Sony trying to phase out the Assassin? In my guild I'm seeing more use for SK's evac then I am for an assassin, purely because they can tank/backup and use a conj with CoH and a tank pet to out DPS us. And the Conj can heal themselves and the pet if they took that AA tree.Now I am hearing that Rangers and Brigs/Swashies have a pet that does damage... I've seen the hawk but thought it was a limited duration CA... yet we have nothing that does damage outside of our Toon.All in all... Sony has done a great job of losing customers, I'm seeing Horizons all over again. And it died a horrible death that ended up in lawsuits cause they were still billing people that quit. Purely because everyone quit so fast they couldn't keep up and didn't have the staff to accomodate all the account deletions.Already, 2 of my friends have quit, 3 more are planning on it, and my guilds activity has dropped by over half cause noone wants to play anymore. I'm one of those that has dropped in activity and may just be joining my friends in the final farewell to Sony. This truely will be the last Sony product I ever touch if I leave. First Infantry, now this... Think before you leap Sony.<div></div>

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>HazNpho wrote:Now I am hearing that Rangers and Brigs/Swashies have a pet that does damage... I've seen the hawk but thought it was a limited duration CA... yet we have nothing that does damage outside of our Toon.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I had to stop reading there for a few minutes to chuckle to myself.The Rangers hawk is a sight to behold and trually is a DPS monster, watch out necro's here comes the rangers hawk lol.Serious note though, i've said it before and i'll say it again, the DPS difference between a rogue and a predator should be a lot more than it is, rogues bring so much more to a raid than a predator does.Take rangers for example we have ZERO utlity, seriously, we buff nothing, we cant transfer hate so we cant even help a tank hold aggro. If our DPS isnt more than that of a rogue then we serve no purpose.

[HazNpho]

<div><blockquote><hr>valleyboy1 wrote:...The Rangers hawk is a sight to behold and trually is a DPS monster, watch out necro's here comes the rangers hawk lol....Take rangers for example we have ZERO utlity, seriously, we buff nothing, we cant transfer hate so we cant even help a tank hold aggro. If our DPS isnt more than that of a rogue then we serve no purpose.<hr></blockquote>First... So your saying this hawk is more then a limited CA?Second... You can transfer hate, I just made my Adept 3 hate transfer for my assassin, and its Assassin, Ranger on the desc. All scout classes apparently get the hate transfer from friendly shadows. It just doesn't upgrade with everyone except the Ranger/Assassin.</div>

[t0gar]

Rangers don't get a hate transfer... played one for 60 lvls so i'm pretty sure on this one.(Never again!) Preds have no utility that rouges dont have and now dont even have top DPS or the DPS of the swashy in most cases. Truly a useless class if something doesn't change. Beta = joke.<div></div>

[K'aldar]

Aye rangers dont' get a hate transfer, if i remember right they get a general hate decrease instead.   imo the ranger's "utility", is the fact that they're the only ranged class that has an auto attack(and what an autoattack it is).  so on jousting fights or fights with multiple ae's where its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near impossible to get a good melee in, and mages go oop, there's the ranger dishing out some nice consistant dps.  no its not a really good utillity, but its a little something.  also do you have the move where whatever the mob hits next gets a nice aggro boost? or is that swash?don't get me wrong, this isn't a crack at rangers in any way.  in fact i think both classes are pretty much where they should be, at least in my guild.  on fights without ae's, assassin is the clear winner.  on fights with a hard ae, or multiple, ranger wins by a landslide.  but on fights where there's just one ae, or an easy one to stay in or joust, its pretty much a toss up.<div></div>

[t0gar]

rangers have the hate trick<div></div>

[HazNpho]

<div></div>My bad, its just the deagro they get, though I thought they got more then just evade. And I thought I saw the Ranger/Assassin bit on another Agro skill.<div></div><p>Message Edited by HazNpho on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:43 PM</span>

[t0gar]

Lets all read the description of Murderous Design..."Reduces the amount of hate that the ASSASSIN accumulates in combat and transfers it to an ally."Just checked the rest of my line and... yep they say the same exact thing. We share deaggro with Rangers, but they dont have hate transfers they have a different buff instead that reduces more aggro than ours, but it doesn't go to anyone.<div></div>

[Velth]

Speaking as a former Ranger before I betrayed; Rangers do not have an aggro/hate transfer like assassins. What they do have is a self buff that reduces the amount of hate they accumulate. They also have a CA that increases hate on the next person that strikes the mob, wow, lots of utility there. Rangers have NO utility. Assassins have ALMOST NO utility; and if your guilds tank can't keep aggro without your hate transfer, something is wrong. So really unless the 'Predators' get an increase in group/raid utility or AA's fixed to augment our DPS (that thing we're supposed to do) then there are always better choices for a raid if available. I would personally rather spend all my EoF AA's in other trees from KoS.

[t0gar]

Rangers have no utility? What's that hawk? And i'm not talking about the lvl 20 fun spell... It might not be the greatest, but niether is Apply Poison. The bow CA... was talking to another ranger and from his description it's the next target that the mob hits that gains extra aggro. Confirmed this by looking at their spell list. Again not the best, but there's a difference between none and a little. Rangers have about as much as Assassins, but ours are probably a little more effective.Sorry, but I've heard enough about rangers for one day. (48% PF... grrr /kicks his sprint AA)The rest though I agree with and something definately needs to be done on Sony's part to balance out the classes. Then again, the classes never seem to be balanced.<div></div>

[Velth]

<DIV>Take a dip in the Ranger forums, or roll one up and see for yourself. Nobody uses that stupid hawk. It breaks all stealth everytime it attacks, and it's 'aggro pull' goes directly to the RANGER when the hawk dies (which takes 1 hit). It's a worthless POS CA. And you're right, the description of the CA for the aggro proc is whoever the mob attacks next, which is usually the main tank, so it helps his aggro... slightly. It's a POS ability.</DIV>

[judged_one]

We are talking about Assassin AA. And it needs to be changed. If Rangers are having issues then make a post in the Ranger forum. This is not about Assassn vs Ranger.If you want to just start another thread about(confusion arrow and amazing shot) vs (MD)

[Velth]

Discussions evolve, as this one did into comparing the de-aggro abilities of the two classes. It also evolved into comparing the utility, of which the Assassin has the greater utility by about 1%. The point is both predator classes are being ignored without a developer response for months. Live Update 30 just released with only a nerf to Assassins and no fixes at all for Rangers (which actually makes them lucky).