Anyone notice a different in melee damage post expansion?

[judged_one]

I don't know if this is due to the nerf to DR on Weapons and such.•But I did lab last nite and I notice that almost all melee class are a lot lower in DPS than pre expansion. Going to do some log checking tonite to see what is going on. Anyone notice anything different. •Defense debuff:How useful is defense debuff in this expansion(anyone tried to parse the difference?),If you take both defense debuff AA you can debuff up to 100 defense.•AA: I am wondering which is better, I am having a hard time deciding on Excessive bleeding vs Gateway vs Repeated Stabbing. Anyone have any dps info on them.•DPS: Are we going to be #1 DPS zone this expansion. Swashy seems to be doing quite a bit of damage with their new inspiration AA. And Wizard is doing alot more too with Incineration(sp?) AA. Brigand, conjuror and necro seems to be doing a bit less now. (Keep in mind, my observation are with around 10-20 AA post expansion) Personally I only got 12 AA so far so this could change quite a bit once I get my t5AA.

[Itsumo]

Firstly, I always use both my defense debuffs near the start of the fight anyways, they help. Probably more now, but I haven't really paid attention to it.AA, I'm definitately going bleeding and then trying Getaway. If Getaway doesn't work in a way I like, I'll then change and max my DPS AAs.I'm still parsing number one in my guild, though I do have by far the most AAs in my guild. My DPS also did not drop, in fact its up a little bit which is surprising since I'm not quite as quick with my combat arts from the new way they grey out (its hard for me to tell) and I've noticed sometimes I queue things up and it doesn't actually activate.Note that the skill caps are higher, so with the same skill your accuracy will likely be lower. Try getting master offensive stance and putting on +skills, keep swindler's luck up at all times and get any buffs you can off of other people. Also, Deadly Focus helps a lot with accuracy now.<div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR>I don't know if this is due to the nerf to DR on Weapons and such.<BR><BR>•But I did lab last nite and I notice that almost all melee class are a lot lower in DPS than pre expansion. Going to do some log checking tonite to see what is going on. Anyone notice anything different. <BR><BR>•Defense debuff:<BR>How useful is defense debuff in this expansion<BR>(anyone tried to parse the difference?),<BR>If you take both defense debuff AA you can debuff up to 100 defense.<BR><BR>•AA: I am wondering which is better, I am having a hard time deciding on <BR>Excessive bleeding vs Gateway vs Repeated Stabbing. Anyone have any dps info on them.<BR><BR>•DPS: Are we going to be #1 DPS zone this expansion. Swashy seems to be doing quite a bit of damage with their new inspiration AA. And Wizard is doing alot more too with Incineration(sp?) AA. Brigand, conjuror and necro seems to be doing a bit less now. (Keep in mind, my observation are with around 10-20 AA post expansion) Personally I only got 12 AA so far so this could change quite a bit once I get my t5AA.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Brigand is needing to joust and watch the aes more so your losing out on his debuffs imo

[judged_one]

I know defense debuff helps, but anyone know if it is more important now?A lot of people are talking about +pierce/slash skills now, but anyone did any parse. I know that it didn't do much pre expansion. I hear a lot of tanks complaining they are missing quite a lot, especially orange epic.Gateway. My only concern with gateway is concealment. As of now, I usually get concealment up every encounter, thus all my big CAs such as KB, Decap, Eviscerate, Slicethoart are down. And I chain MoN and PB when they are up. Although the AOE Avoidance is nice, is it worth 21 AA to go there.I see hell lot of protential on repeated stabing. Consider we probably cast up to 1000+ CA/raid.With 50% reduction in recovery which is reduction of .5s is .125 secSo with 1000 CA casted that's 125 seconds. Consider we swing at about 1.5 second with haste mod. 125s/1.5 x2(DW) = 167Consider we avg about 350 dmg / swing167swings x 350dmg = 58540dmg (Not counting proc)On a successful attack this spell has a 25% chance to cast caustic poison on target of normalize with 3s (1.5 s swing) IT should proc off main hand at 3s/1.5s x 25% = 12.5% Normally I get about 700-1200 (due to AA crit) avg 900 dmg.83swings x 12.5% x 900dmg = 9338dmgtotal 67877.5Consider a ZP is usually around 400000 so adding 58540 is additional 14%.dont know.

[Skratttt]

<DIV>plain and simple.....the tricks line looks like it would suck...but its needed for that 100% recovery redux....if our backstab recovery goes from .5 to .25 (assuming its worded like most of those are) makes your MA+PB combo much faster (2 seconds down to 1.5 25% less time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) ...that and concealment combo will have less times of you missing out on your 6th atack due to lag <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>think the bleed line is a winner for sure....specially if you intend to solo...you can make your solo mob fights end in 3/4 of the time ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Computer MAn]

<div></div>I have not actually noticed my DPS dropping at all I generally win the parses. Offensive skills seem to matter more as I have the +4 to both skills on the Clawed Basilisk Boots as well as the +7 on the Doomslayer belt and seem to miss less than people without +offensive skills gear. We still seem to be number one DPS but we will have to wait and see until everyone has max AA's and gear.On the topic of AA's I have actually been meaning to start a post on it. I personally have started going after AE immunity first and am 2 points away so will be able to test it more. After that I am undecided it is either the DOT line or going and getting frontload. Personally I don't seem to think the dot line is that great but I haven't tested bleeding to see if it is worth it. I was eyeing frontload but that line is just so bad. Although from beta I would average about 5 posion procs, 6 destructive force procs and 6 adornment procs in the 16 seconds Frontload was up so it might be worth it.Edit: I like the AE immunity line even without the immunity the recast reduction on Exacting is nice as is the +DPS and Haste short duraton buffs. Repeated stabbing could be nice but I doubt going through that line is worth it for just that end skill. But I will have to test it once I get max AA's and see.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Computer MAn on <span class=date_text>11-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:45 AM</span>

[judged_one]

Well, we did normal DPS in EoF zones (Actually a bit higher due to all the new toys)However the whole raid was quite a bit lower in KoS zone. In HoS and Labs past week, dps was a lot lower. And ZP total damage went up by a whopping 100k+. But I think it should return to normal now that they are re-adjsuting these zones.So the question is, your guild is goign to make you take excessive bleeding?Personally I am liking Repeated Stabbing and Gateway. Frontload looks like a joke.And guess what Stun, Root actually are useful in raid, so Repeated stabbing is not bad after all. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jvaloth]

<P>All I know is that swashy dps is significantly higher now.</P> <P> </P> <P>They're doing 1600-2000+ consistantly now.    I'm hard pressed as a fully fabled out and master'd assassin to even come close to their dps.</P> <P> </P> <P>Whenever I get a 1400 parse, they parse 1600. Whenever I parse 1600 they parse 2000.  Its starting to [Removed for Content] me off.</P> <P> </P> <P>Swashy's 1 hand  double attack,  fast recasting short buffs ,  hurricane stance,  superior AA's  =     Assassins are no longer top dogs.</P> <P> </P> <P>I certainly don't want fellow guildies to get nerfed but I'm getting a little [Removed for Content] that prior to expansion I was #1 - #2 on every parse and now I'm parsing #3 - #4 and I'm doing everything I used to do to no avail.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Anyone else having simular experiences?</P> <P>  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[judged_one]

It is mainly due to group buff.If I am in a same group as a swashy, I will own in single target and he will own in group taget.But there are numerous posts stating that swashy is doing lots now. It is fine, as long as assassin is not on the spot light. If you check the parser, 50% + of their damage are from autoattack with hurricanes + inspiration + CoB + DPSmod. Basically if you stack all 4 things together a swashy can archive 2k parse easy on group. Also double attack and poison is still doing crazy damage. And in EoF they got a early AA that reduce inspiration recast. It will be interesting to compare again when both are at 100AA since Repeat stabbing and excessive bleeding is huge dps boost. (Well not excessive bleeding but it is still very very useful.)<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class=date_text>11-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:53 AM</span>

[Illustrious]

<P>Have noticed our Assassin that tends to be in the MT grp is parsing higher than he used to pre eof, 2-2.5k dps parses were popping up much more than they used to in HoS the other night from him.</P> <P> </P> <P>Pre EoF our rangers were cathcing him up or overtaking him on many parses, but since EoF the assassin has been wiping the floor with them.</P>

[Tripo]

<DIV>The increased dps of the Assassin in the MT group is probably due to being grouped with the MT. Guardians give a buff that substantially boosts the groups piercing slashing etc etc. Due to recent changes to these skills that along with being grouped with a coercer (incr dps cap) would be a factor if there is a coercer in there. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Diekitty 70 Assasin</DIV> <DIV>Plstaunt Oridie 70 Coercer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jayad]

<P>Being able to get a lot of STR now could also help.  With the zerker and dirge I've noticed it.</P> <P>I haven't used repeated stabbing AA yet.  I guess I'm skeptical it would really increase dps a lot.  Has anybody tried it?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding the AA, but I don't see why the .5 to .25s recovery would be such a boost?</P>

[t0gar]

I dont see the repeated stabbing deal either... I wait a second or so anyways after every combat art so that my auto-attack can get off, what will .25 extra seconds of waiting with spells up do? maybe if i'm grouping and just all out CA spamming for max DPS, but raid-wise it just doesn't work with my weapons + haste. Am I missing something? because the reason for choosing it for raids eludes me unless you have a really fast weapon or plenty of haste at your disposal.(hitting faster than .5secs kinda haste!) Or if the mobs drop crazy fast and you end up spamming CA's anyways... Maybe you can get 2 CA's off with this and then let your auto-attack hit, but lag is ganna end up delaying you and you'll still be sitting there twiddling your thumbs waiting for something to pop back up when your exacting is down. <div></div>

[Jvaloth]

<DIV>I'm amazed more people arent concerned with whats happened with EoF.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassin DPS stays roughly the same, Swashy DPS goes up by 500-800+...  and yet not a peep from anyone?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dracor]

I don't have swashies beating me on parses so no.<div></div>

[Graton]

<blockquote><hr>t0gar wrote:I dont see the repeated stabbing deal either... I wait a second or so anyways after every combat art so that my auto-attack can get off, what will .25 extra seconds of waiting with spells up do? maybe if i'm grouping and just all out CA spamming for max DPS, but raid-wise it just doesn't work with my weapons + haste. Am I missing something? because the reason for choosing it for raids eludes me unless you have a really fast weapon or plenty of haste at your disposal.(hitting faster than .5secs kinda haste!) Or if the mobs drop crazy fast and you end up spamming CA's anyways... Maybe you can get 2 CA's off with this and then let your auto-attack hit, but lag is ganna end up delaying you and you'll still be sitting there twiddling your thumbs waiting for something to pop back up when your exacting is down. <div></div><hr></blockquote>auto attack fires automatically during recovery time anyway. what advantage do you get out of pausing between ca's i'm curious?<div></div>

[Jvaloth]

<DIV>Hmm if your sig is correct and you are indeed level 58,  this may not apply to you yet then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm talking about level 70's with 50 KoS AA's and 20-25 EoF AA's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was out parsing everyone in my guild up until this new expansion in which they shorteed recast times on Inspiration and other superior AA's for Swashies..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I'm parsing 3-4 behind several swashies.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From #1 to #4 with everyone in the same gear, same raid content, and same group composition.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not even out parsing the swashies on single target encounters anymore,  in which we should have a distinct advantage.   It doesnt make sense and in my opinion is simply not acceptable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[prochu]

<P>it is easy,u can be wining to swas or wizards but because they are slakers,assassins are doing the same dps than before but swas are doing 500 or so mroe and wizards 500 or more also</P> <P>in eof i was doing 1400-2000dps and swas and wizards 800-1300 but now swas is doing 1200-1800 and wizard 1300-2100</P> <P>i have been since i joint to my guild at MT group with coercer and fury ( but i never got agitatebecause MT want it) and wizard have been all eof parses with illusionist but yes they have got boosted their dps 30 -40 % and rangers also they was doing before 700-1k and now 900-1400 ( very low still)</P> <P>and it is now that we have around 20aa with more aa they will got more dps but i dont think that with our ubber aa i will get more dps</P>

[Computer MAn]

I am still winning all my parses on singles. Sure I will lose some of the group mobs to a Sorcerer / Swashy but thats what they are good at. Do I wish I had an AA to lower KB to a 1 minute timer like they can do with inspiration? Sure but im not going to make a huge deal out of it considering I am still parsing well.<div></div>