Assassin EoF AAs

[HellRaiserXX]

<DIV><FONT size=3>Well what to spend 50 new AA points on?  Here is a breakdown of our new AAs with my personal opinion attached to each one. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Our new AA tree consists of four different lines: Tricks, Murdering, Bleeding, and Poisons. Unlike the KoS AAs each line is not self contained.  Some abilities branch over into other lines so you can possibly skip some less useful AAs and get the one you want without having to spend points in the not so useful AA as you can see below. Each AA takes 5 points to max out.</FONT>        </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <IMG src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e162/HellRaiserXX/AA.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5>Trick Line</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 1</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Cheap Shot - Improves reuse speed by 0.5sec per point for a total of 2.5sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>         This is for those of us who solo plain and simple.  Pretty good AA if you like soloing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 2</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Jugular - Improves reuse speed by 1sec per point for a total of 5sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>           I personally think this is pretty useless because a 55sec recast will not get you very many extra attacks except in very limited situations. There is one fairly good benefit that I forgot to bring out.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Constriction - Improves reuse speed by 1sec per point for a total of 5sec. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>          This one isn't too bad, 15sec instead of 20 sec on a debuff is nice.  Only thing being the duration of the debuff makes the slower recast somewhat pointless.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 3</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Freezing Strike - Improves reuse speed by 1sec per point for a total of 5sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>           See Enhance: Jugular.  This could help soloers a bit, but if the mob isn't dead in less than a minute you are probably in trouble.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Crippling Strike - Improves reuse speed by 1sec per point for a total of 5sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>           See Enhance: Jugular.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 4</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Mastery Strike - Improves reuse speed by 5sec per point for a total of 25sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>          Not so great imo. I see mastery strikes as bonus dmg on mobs they work against and not something I can count on for my DPS. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 5</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Silencing - On successful melee attack this spell will cast Silencing on target.  Lasts for 20sec. Reduces awareness of other encounters calling for help. Must have 15 points in Tricks to get. I believe it is passive because when I got it I received no new ability in my book.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>           I have a note on it saying it will be changed.  To what I do not know yet.  As it is its basically a way to pull a mob without getting social.  But when do we do much pulling and if we do it is usually with Surveillance.  Will be interesting to see what it changes to.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5>Murdering</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 1</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Sprint - Increase Sprint movement speed by 5% and reduces power cost by 5% per point for a total of 25%.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>          Obviously, the best one we get /sarcasm.  I dont understand this one, thankfully we can get into the Murdering line via the Bleed line and not have to spend the points.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 2</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Honed Reflexes - Improves reuse speed by 8sec per point for a total of 40sec reduction.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>           This one isn't bad, but because the recast is still 4min 20sec it will be rare that this will be up twice except on encounters where it probably already would have.  Not a bad one though.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 3</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Deadly Focus - Improves reuse speed by 8sec per point for a total of 40sec reduction.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>            See Enhance: Honed Reflexes.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 4</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Exacting - Improves reuse speed by 5sec per point for a total of 25sec reduction.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>            I like this one.  Anyway to get Exacting up quicker is a good thing and at 2min 35sec it has a decent chance of being up several times during a longer encounter.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Deft Defense (Adroit Defense) - Reduces Penalties by 20% per point for a total of 100%.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>            Soloers dream.  You get all the extra defensive capabilities without any penalty melee.  Doesn't have much application elsewhere though.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 5</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Getaway - This is an interesting ability and is a pretty cool idea. However there is no way to control where you get teleported to, so it could put you right in the middle of more aggro. Not really that great, but a cool idea.  If it teleported you behind the mob or something it might be a lot better, but having it put you into adds and wiping the raid would not be cool.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e162/HellRaiserXX/Getaway.jpg"></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5>Bleeding</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 1</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Scraping Blow - Reduces duration by 0.8sec per point for a total of 4sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>              Basically makes it tick out faster.  Normally you would not get the last tick because it would be recast.  This way you get all the ticks before recasting.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 2</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Flowing Wound - Reduces duration by 2sec per point for a total of 10sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>               Kinda pointless to have it tick faster if the recast is still longer.  Basically it lets you could get the Untreated Bleeding to hit at the end of a fight when it might not normally.  Will be hard to time it effectively because no one can tell for certain how long a fight will last.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 3</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Deadly Wound - Reduces duration by 2sec per point for a total of 10sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>                Decent because you can get the duration to go below the recast so will get full dmg from it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Malignant Mark - Increases trigger chance by 1% per point for a total of 5%.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>                Might be useful for soloing and grouping, but in a raid it ticks out almost instantly anyway so it wouldn't help too much.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 4</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Cloaked Assault - Reduces duration by 0.8sec per point for a total of 4sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>               Doesn't help a whole lot except for short encounters, but I personally don't use my AEs if I know it will be a very short fight.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 5</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Excessive Bleeding - Reduces max health by 1% for each Bleed ability active on a target. Passive.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>               This one has promise.  I wasn't able to test it in a raid situation, but basically if all 5 Bleed abilities are up it will debuff the targets max health by 5%.  Those who did test it said it didn't seem like it was working or the effect wasn't noticeable.  Say a mob has 1million HP having all 5 Bleeds up would decrease max health by 50000hp.  May not make a huge difference since most raids would burn through that much HP in a matter of seconds, but because it is passive it is always doing it.  Unknown whether the mob gains back its HP when it wears off. Other assassins who tested it will have to add some probably.  I think it is probably our best AA so far if it works correctly.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5>Poisons</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 1</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Enmesh - Increases poison resist reduction by 3% per point for a total of 15%.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>                 Any extra debuff is nice imo. This brings the poison resist up to 2272 maxed from 1976.  Not a bad AA.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 2</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Ignorant Bliss Poison - Increases hate reduction by 3% per point for a total of 15%.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>                This one is nice if you use this poison.  I personally dont, but I know a lot of assassins do.  At rank 5 it will decrease threat by 1383 from original 1203.  Not bad.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Hemotoxin Poison - Reduces duration by 1sec per point for a total of 5sec.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>                 If you use hemotoxin this is a good one.  I personally dont because you still have the problem of reprocing before all the ticks are through.  This will make it do its dmg in 19sec instead of 24 so there is a better chance of getting more dmg than caustic.  Might turn out to be a really good one.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 3</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Attribute Poison - Increase attribute reduction by 3% per point for a total of 15%.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>                This one is really good imo.  On Grandmaster's Enfeebling Poison it increase the STR debuff from 67 to 77. One problem though is that it does not increase the debuff to crush, slash, pierce, and ranged.  This may be a bug, it may not be.  Still a pretty good AA.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 4</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Enhance: Apply Poison - Increase trigger chance by 1% per point for a total of 5%.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>                 Not really that great, benefits someone else more than us really.  Brawlers and Zerkers will like it though.  Goes from a 15% chance to a 20% chance. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Tier 5</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Frontload -  This had the potention to be an awesome AA, but with the extremely short duration it is not going to affect the proc rate at all really.  Great idea for an AA though.  If they would increase its duration it would easily be one of the best AAs we get.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e162/HellRaiserXX/frontload.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have not yet decided which direction to go, but I am thinking the bleed line and poison line are probably the most useful.  I might spend a few points jumping into the murdering line as well.  As you can see there is potential for a lot of variation of choices and hopefully each assassin which choose that which benefits their own play style the best and makes them better.  In KoS we had a pretty clear cut what is best whereas here it is a little more gray. These AAs are nothing to make you dance for or get all excited over, but they are not completely worthless.  SOE could not give us AAs like the ones in KoS because they would make us extremely overpowered against the content especially KoS content.  If you keep that in mind than it you won't be disappointed as much.  I know a lot of people were KoS similar AAs and there will be a lot of complaining from almost every class, but if you keep in mind the reasons behind it, it makes it less of a shocker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The rest of EoF is spectacular.  Easily the best expansion yet.  I am very impressed with it and can't wait till it goes live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <SPAN class=date_text>11-03-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:42 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class=date_text>11-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:33 AM</span>

[Poison-X]

<DIV>All those aa's blow.  Do the devs sit there and try to come up with the stupidest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] they can for assassins or what?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unless the recast timer aa's ignore extractings own rules they wont even work as the spell it self says NATURAL RECAST of 1 minute.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Cheap shot? .. WOW 2.5 seconds quicker.. GAME BREAKING HAVE YOU REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT YOUR DOING? OMGZ</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SPRINT the best AA  we can have a slightly greater chance of living now when our decap fails to kill a grey because its nerfed 50+% in pvp.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stealth teleporting...  its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for pve and has a slight chance to be useful in pvp if your in an open area without agro mobs......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] @ 2 seconds of double trigger percentages .. yeah our offensive stance might proc for once but dont get your hopes up to high since its broke as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Passive bleed thing sounds really worthless.. unless you can put 20 assassins in a raid and kill a mob in like 3 seconds when they all bleed it. </DIV> <DIV>when you die to some hard raid mob at 3% life and the mob jumps back to 8% cuz your bleed goes away its going to be pretty stupid.. hope you only have 1 assassin or its jumpin high when they all start dying</DIV>

[podium829]

nice, great job.. i'm a lot happier with this than with my other toons new AAs.. =), i mean.. can u believe they gave bruisers 2 deaggros? lol

[prochu]

<P>those AA sucks,mostly of casters get,manaburn,lifeburn and so,and all our AA sucks.</P> <P>and i think that u post will be deleted soon because they did it with mine some days ago <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[HellRaiserXX]

<P>The difference between yours and mine is that mine was posted after the NDA lifted <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>If you are comparing the new AAs to the old ones they will suck and they arent that great anyway, however some do have potential.  Reducing the duration on scraping blow and deadly wound is nice because you will get the full effect before it is able to be recast.  Currently the duration is longer than the recast on those abilities.  The poison line is really nice IMO, except for maybe Apply Poison, but other people will like it.  If frontload gets changed, and it might, it will be a really nice ability. </P> <P>People have to understand that the AAs for most classes are not meant to make you more uber than you are now.  They are meant to fine tune the class.  Now I admit they dont really do a very good job of that, but imagine if everyone got AAs like in KoS.  All of KoS content would be so completely trivialized you would have pickup raids farming DT and the new content would have had to have been made a lot more difficult.   With the level cap not being raised they can't give us lvl 80 abilities. These AAs have to be taken with a grain of salt. </P>

[Ama]

<DIV>Alot of those AAs seem interesting but i'm gonna have to wait till EoF comes out to really give them a try.  I do agree that "Front Load" ability is truely a "Load" if you know what i'm getting at.  Hopefully it will be increased to atleast 7 seconds or at max 12 seconds so there's time to use alot of our stuff. </DIV>

[beliker]

Yea those AA's are pretty weak, I dont see why anyone would want to spend any points into those untill they 50-ed out the KoS aas.<div></div>

[Jayad]

They make the KOS AA tree look amazing.

[HellRaiserXX]

<DIV>I am pretty sure you will not be able to put more than 50AAs into either group.  So you can't do anything more with the KoS AAs.  Either take these AAs or dont bother.  For the most part it looks to me like if you didn't put anymore points in, it probably won't negativly affect your character to any major extent. However you will be getting points anyway so might as well spend them.  I was able to get 6 points just from exploring and I didn't get into many of the dungeons or raid instances.  There is a lot of quests, 5 new HQs and 4 or 5 new sig quests, it will be pretty easy to get a lot of points without actually grinding them out just by doing stuff we would do anyway.  Might as well spend them.</DIV>

[beliker]

Well yea at lvl 70 with 50 aa there is no point not too. Yet a new lvl 20 post EoF will get to decide if he wants to put his initial AA points in KoS or EoF trees, and in that situation why they would put any in eof trees untill maxed out KoS is beyound me.<div></div>

[steelbadger]

I kinda liked them...  they give options, it was a bit annoying how, in KoS, there was really only one way to spend your AA's.I honestly have no idea where I'll go, I'll have to take a long look at my assassin and decide what I want him to be...<div></div>

[judged_one]

<P>It is call stealth nerf.</P> <P>Rangers is getting a much better AA(i.e. double shot type) so basically Ranger will be able to compare DPS with us again.</P> <P>The only thing that I don't understand is why Swashy is getting even more DPS boost. </P> <P>Last I check Swashy is close enough DPS compare to the so call t1 tier. </P> <P> </P> <P>Please increase these 1 sec bs to at least 5s so they will be remotely useful. 5 sec off a min CA is a waste of time.</P> <P>Front load needs to be like 7-30 sec if you consider that we have no control of when things are being proced.</P> <P>All in all, these AA are junk. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Iseabeil]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR> <P>It is call stealth nerf.</P> <P>Rangers is getting a much better AA(i.e. double shot type) so basically Ranger will be able to compare DPS with us again.</P> <P>The only thing that I don't understand is why Swashy is getting even more DPS boost.</P> <P>Last I check Swashy is close enough DPS compare to the so call t1 tier.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>5% double attack maxed out, wouldnt call that so awesome, and rangers seem to be as impressed by EoF AA's as assassains. As for where swashies get DPS boost? One line increases duration of debuffs that we can already keep up infinite. One line increases deagro proc, lowers hate proc on a skill that nowhere in description has a hate proc and minor duration increase on two selfbuffs, only one of wich would increase general dps at all, and very little so. Our 'poison line' doesnt even effect any damage dealing poisons unless you go all way and get a max of 5% increase in proc chance, wich only leaves our reach line that most likely will have quite small effect as well. I wouldnt say the assassain AA's are 'top class' or that they cant be improved, but from all four characters I play actively (swashie, monk, warden, illusionist) the only one that holds any interest is the illusionist ones. There might be some fluke class that is exception, but from all AAs I seen, they are all focused on being 'meh type'. The choises made on these arent gonna make or break anyone, its just some salt and pepper in addition to the real spice (KoS AAs).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

[ShiftySands]

<DIV>Horrible, that is all~</DIV>

[-Arctura-]

(( does the frontload thing go up by 2 sec per point for a max of 10 sec or what?<div></div>

[prochu]

u can have there only one point i think and 2 secs is useless,what will u do in 2 secs?4 hits?and double proc in 4 hits is useless <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[HellRaiserXX]

<P>its like the final abilities in KoS.  In all the finishers you put 5points once and that is what you get.  Rangers AAs are slightly better, which is what they needed to be, but they aren't good enough for me to say I want those.  </P> <P>Just tested it to make sure and exacting does not work with the sped reuse timers of the 1min CAs, I think it should since you are effectively changing the natural reuse timer.  </P>

[Poison-X]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HellRaiserXX wrote:<BR> <P>Just tested it to make sure and exacting does not work with the sped reuse timers of the 1min CAs, I think it should since you are effectively changing the natural reuse timer. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Of course it doesn't you really think the devs actually ever played an assassin?</P> <P>All they did was put "must be in stealth and behind and giving them a reach around" on every CA we have because someone out dps'd there brigand character and called it a day.</P> <P> </P>

[HellRaiserXX]

<P>why are you playing an assassin?  I get sick of you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s who never have anything useful to say and are always negative about the class.  As far as classes go Assassins are probably the only class that was actually done right in the first place and hasnt needed any kind of help. Pretty much every change that affected our class were not because of our class and the ones that were directed specifically at us was the correct change to make, IE reducing Surveil range, ya it sucked to not have it, but it was the right change to make and we all knew it. </P> <P>Please dont reply to this thread if all you are gonna say is these AAs suck cause you obviously dont understand whats going on.  This is supposed to be for us to discuss how these AAs can better our class and they do do that, just not in the overpoweringly godly way everyone was expecting.   </P>

[Kildow]

What do you think would be the Optimal DPS set up? I was thinkin The poisons and Maybe the Bleed Line. I dunno we are a pretty sweet class that is the best melee so i kinda figured we would get any BIG abilitys for AA.<blockquote><div> </div></blockquote><font color="#ffff00"><font size="4">Eazay The Sexecutioner70 Assassin of Borgata Vox Server</font></font><div></div>

[Remma]

<div><blockquote><hr>HellRaiserXX wrote:<div></div> <p>why are you playing an assassin?  I get sick of you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s who never have anything useful to say and are always negative about the class.  As far as classes go Assassins are probably the only class that was actually done right in the first place and hasnt needed any kind of help. Pretty much every change that affected our class were not because of our class and the ones that were directed specifically at us was the correct change to make, IE reducing Surveil range, ya it sucked to not have it, but it was the right change to make and we all knew it. </p> <p>Please dont reply to this thread if all you are gonna say is these AAs suck cause you obviously dont understand whats going on.  This is supposed to be for us to discuss how these AAs can better our class and they do do that, just not in the overpoweringly godly way everyone was expecting.   </p><hr></blockquote>I will say it straight, these AA's DO suck in their present form there's nothing there that says to me I MUST get all 50 aa's now cos that's sooooooo kewl. They are, however, more or less what we are gonna see on live I really don't see the dev's making huge sweeping changes to them at this late stage. Though I'm sure there will be some fixing up doneYes they better the class however do so only marginally, so I see this thread as us making the best of what we are given.The path isn't as clear cut as KoS was and it's gonna take a lot of parsing and experimentation to figure which way to go, it does seem that there's no set path for maxing your dps this time around which is prolly a good thing, no more cookie cutter aa's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Front load shows a lot of promise once the duration is fixed (2 seconds ahahahaahah) and the poison line looks rather interesting. The reductions in recast on honed and brutal are tempting too.Time to load up ACT and play around <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[steelbadger]

<div><blockquote><hr>Remmagell wrote:<div><i>The path isn't as clear cut as KoS was and it's gonna take a lot of parsing and experimentation to figure which way to go</i>, it does seem that there's no set path for maxing your dps this time around which is prolly a good thing, no more cookie cutter aa's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Front load shows a lot of promise once the duration is fixed (2 seconds ahahahaahah) and the poison line looks rather interesting. The reductions in recast on honed and brutal are tempting too.Time to load up ACT and play around <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Thats why I like them.  Finally, a choice!  And possibility of level 70 assassins actually being different from one another.</div>

[Kaiser Sigma]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Remmagell wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>I will say it straight, these AA's DO suck in their present form there's nothing there that says to me I MUST get all 50 aa's now cos that's sooooooo kewl. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=Verdana size=2>All the new AAs for all classes "suck". They will improve us marginally instead of a exponentially (like it happened with the first set of AAs) and that was to be expected considering there is no level cap, just slight downgrades to our current gear (which are nullified by tinkering anyways). The improvements can only be slight under such circumstances.</FONT><BR>

[HellRaiserXX]

<DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] I had a post written out and when I posted it it was gone.  /SIGH! Well, off to class, have to do it again later.</DIV><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:17 AM</span>

[Zin`Car]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poison-X wrote:<BR> <DIV>All those aa's blow.  Do the devs sit there and try to come up with the stupidest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] they can for assassins or what?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unless the recast timer aa's ignore extractings own rules they wont even work as the spell it self says NATURAL RECAST of 1 minute.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Cheap shot? .. WOW 2.5 seconds quicker.. GAME BREAKING HAVE YOU REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT YOUR DOING? OMGZ</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SPRINT the best AA  we can have a slightly greater chance of living now when our decap fails to kill a grey because its nerfed 50+% in pvp.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stealth teleporting...  its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for pve and has a slight chance to be useful in pvp if your in an open area without agro mobs......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] @ 2 seconds of double trigger percentages .. yeah our offensive stance might proc for once but dont get your hopes up to high since its broke as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Passive bleed thing sounds really worthless.. unless you can put 20 assassins in a raid and kill a mob in like 3 seconds when they all bleed it. </DIV> <DIV>when you die to some hard raid mob at 3% life and the mob jumps back to 8% cuz your bleed goes away its going to be pretty stupid.. hope you only have 1 assassin or its jumpin high when they all start dying</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, they hate YOU.  They want nothing but to see YOU suffer and eventually poke a fork in your left eye.  Why, just the other day i logged into the Chat room and saw the devs talking about how they love to design things in game just to make you mad.  Just wait for the next expansion after EoF:  Assassins get pink frilly skirts and the only AA line we will be able to access is one that allows us to wear ballet shoes and carry "Hello Kitty" balloons into combat.</P> <P> </P> <P>You people whining about how awful these aa's are need to take a moment to see how each of them affect your current game play strategy.  Don't expect them to redefine your character.  There is more to EoF then the aa lines.  The deity buffs and adornments will all come into play.</P> <P> </P> <P>Or you could sit there and whine like some spoiled little daddy's girl who is used to being given everything and will thrrow a tantrum at the drop of a hat when you dont get your way or what you want.  You're not an assassin... you're a B!7@#.  Plain.  Simple. Period.  now [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and go stab something.</P><p>Message Edited by Zin`Carla on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:30 AM</span>

[Comaagereon]

Ok, most of these range from useless to marginally useful for a raider.  Granted I can see some of the logic behind most of these, for someone who does a lot of solo a better cheap shot and the chance to run away if things go wrong is probably a very welcome change.  We cant expect everything that comes out to be designed for raiders.  Nonetheless I'm looking at this in terms of trying to maximize dps on a raid.  As said several times now kos aa were pretty obvious as to what helps us dps.  I'm thinking aa that get duration under recast timers are something to go for, perhaps the poison line as well, though I still dont know what made them choose hemotoxin; yeah its next to the bleed line but just because the name of the poison seems to fit the area doesnt mean its gonna be a good choice.  Given the shape of the tree my real curiosity is how I can get the skills I want for raiding while wasting the fewest points possible on skills Im not going to use due to my play style.  Yes, I am as unhappy as the next person with these aa but since this is what we got any ideas from people who have tested them etc on what path is least wasteful to get the desirable aa would be appreciated.  Just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

[Crychtonn]

<P>FYI - Ranger got that same uber cool Sprint AA you guys got.  So don't think you're alone there <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>But on the plus side - Ranger's got a Caustic AA vs Assassin's got a Hemo AA.  Therefor rangers WIN :smileytongue:</P> <P> </P> <P>The AA stuff is interesting to look at but I'm more interested and still trying to understand the new new new proc'ing system they are changing to.  The whole "on average item will proc 1.8 or 2.0 or whatever per minute" makes no sense to me.  Anyone from beta or test figure out what the hell they are doing with proc's now ?</P> <P> </P>

[Graton]

i think it's clear there's an attempt going on to even out rangers and assassins. if it works out, great; they should do the same dmg as us but here's predicting it won't work out and the flip flop will continue:tier 6 - rangers > assassinistier 7 - assassins > rangersEOF - ?here's what i see as the intentional changes to bring rangers up:1. haste causing more procs as opposed to normalization seen before. you can read about this in the eof forums but essentially proc rate will be determined before haste and not stepped down as it once was by haste. the more haste you have the more procs you get. essentially dps vs haste mod is more debatable now where in the past dps > haste. rangers have haste buffs where we have dps so improving haste definately helps rangers more than it helps us.2. we get hemotoxin (useless), they get caustic poison (awesome). it's not like soe doesn't know that everyone in the know uses GM caustic over GM hemotoxin. i highly doubt the changes to hemotoxin through aa will make it better than caustic even without aa. then factor in that rangers get a caustic aa and it's pretty clear who got the better ability there.now those 2 things don't really bug me as things should be done to bring rangers up vis a vis assassins. the problem i think will be that i suspect the raid design in this expansion will push rangers over the top. as i understand it, amazing reflexes is being changed so that it isn't perma-ae immunity. this to me points to raid design which revolves around range fighting and jousting. it's no doubt who will be more sought after if that becomes the case.<div></div>

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Graton wrote:<BR><BR>1. haste causing more procs as opposed to normalization seen before. you can read about this in the eof forums but essentially proc rate will be determined before haste and not stepped down as it once was by haste. the more haste you have the more procs you get. essentially dps vs haste mod is more debatable now where in the past dps > haste. rangers have haste buffs where we have dps so improving haste definately helps rangers more than it helps us.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Haste has never factored into the proc'ing formula.  It didn't effect the old system and doesn't look to effect the new one.  The old system used weap delay / 3 and used the default delay not what it was with haste.  The new system does the same thing but with a different formula.  The new system is stated it will use the default delay just the same as the old one.  Haste on weapon speed, CA cast speed and Spell cast speed don't effect the formula and won't effect the new one.</P> <P><BR> </P><p>Message Edited by Crychtonn on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:34 AM</span>

[HellRaiserXX]

<P>I kinda like the new AAs.  There is no set best path like in KoS and it allows for a lot more diversification within the classes depending on playstyle. SOE could not give us AAs like KoS because the level cap did not go up, therefore they had to do things in such a way so to not make KoS content obsolete.  </P> <P>The whole Poison line is useful in my oppinion.  It remains to be seen if the change to hemotoxin will make it any better than caustic. Frontload looks very nice if its duration could be lengthened it would be very useful</P> <P>The Bleed line is also pretty good especially the one for Deadly Wound and Scraping Blow, cant beat more ticks for same recast. Excessive Bleeding looks nice as well, but those who have tested it in raids say it doesnt appear to be affecting epics.</P> <P>Lowering the reuse timers for Exacting and Honed Reflexes is pretty useful IMO since haste is a weak point for us.</P> <P>If they would make Exacting work with the lowered reuse of Jugular, crippling strike, and freezing strike it would make that line a viable choice as well, whereas right now I highly doubt anyone will be putting points into Tricks except for Cheap Shot. </P>

[Jayad]

The exacting one is useful.  I don't think any of the others are.

[Siclone]

<DIV>" think it's clear there's an attempt going on to even out rangers and assassins. if it works out, great; they should do the same dmg as us but here's predicting it won't work out and the flip flop will continue"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW I just wanted to make a comment on this...this is wrong,,rangers can attack from a distance, they dont have to work behind and try to get in postion each time to push out some good dps, also, AE alone makes rangers survialbity,,,,where assassins are gettined wiped clean,,,,the trade off should be assassins have higher DPS that is just right.  <BR></DIV>

[HellRaiserXX]

it is a rare AE that I cant stay in and melee through, only on the very very tough encounters, and if your tank is worth anything he should turn the mobs back to you. Rangers need the back arc just as much as we do and for them to find it they would have to move a lot further in comparison. Also a lot of rangers have to melee as well to keep up their DPS because ranged alone wont cut.  It takes a really good ranger to be able to parse consistantly high. I dont know why you even play an assassin Da Stone, you never have anything good to say.<p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:14 PM</span>

[Siclone]

<P>how do you know I dont have anything good to say?  Hey I just call it the way I see it.  </P> <P>There are tons of encounters on raids where named has a bad AOE and we drop like flyes where a ranger has another option to stay back and still do a fair amount of dps.  Therefore, up close I feel we should be slightly better DPS,,,thats not bad or negative,,,thats just my point of view.</P> <P>as far as the AA's go if you think spending 5 aa points speeding up cheap shot by 2.5 seconds or the other aa have any meaning what so ever,,,I just disagree.  An Assassin the way I see it with 50 AA or 100 AA is not any more or less strong.  Which makes the AA meaningless, I am not the only one that feels that way I think most people do in all classes feel that the AA are a waste of time and mis sold us when they talked about EoF.  If you want me to lie, not express what i feel just  to be "positive" I am not going to do it.   If you like the AA you like them shurg.  </P> <P>on the other hand, I like what I see with the deity abailies, I just wish I knew more on how they worked.  </P> <P> </P>

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DaStone wrote:<BR> <DIV>" think it's clear there's an attempt going on to even out rangers and assassins. if it works out, great; they should do the same dmg as us but here's predicting it won't work out and the flip flop will continue"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW I just wanted to make a comment on this...this is wrong,,rangers can attack from a distance, they dont have to work behind and try to get in postion each time to push out some good dps, also, AE alone makes rangers survialbity,,,,where assassins are gettined wiped clean,,,,the trade off should be assassins have higher DPS that is just right.  <BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You know everytime I read some assassin or any other class make this same exact arguement only one thing comes to mind.  They must have the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]tiest rangers in their guilds that haven't a clue how to play the class or they have no rangers in their guild and just like to make uninformed statements that just point out how stupid they are.  Congratz on either being guilded with horrible rangers or just being clueless and talking out your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Not sure which category you fit in but it's gauranteed to be one of them.</P> <P> </P>

[Siclone]

<P>we all should respect points of views,..but your post unfortunatly for what ever reason does not state yours so I cant reply.  you simple say I am wrong without express your ideas on how I am wrong.  I admit I could be wrong and I am always willing to learn new things however your post is not constructive nor does it explain to us that are wrong on this subject.  </P> <P>my point is simply, rangers have an advantage on range dps over assassins, therefore assassins should have an advantage up close.</P> <P>your reaons why this is wrong is what? saying we are all dummies dont help <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by DaStone on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:12 PM</span>

[Crychtonn]

<DIV>I never called everyone here a dummy.  I said everyone that has used that arguement is a dummy which in this thread is just you.  And one of your fellow assassins already replied with why your arguement is dumb.  You ignored the information he gave you or were incapable of understanding it.  So in the end it goes back to the two options I listed.  You either play in a guild with really bad rangers or you have little to no expierence with the ranger class and decided to make an uninformed comment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[HellRaiserXX]

<P>Da Stone I really dont undestand what you are getting at. It sounds like you are saying that Assassins do not have the advantage in melee combat.  My question is do you actually play an assassin? I know of no other class that owns like we do in melee, cept maybe a swashy. If you are saying that because we cannot sit and melee through AEs then again I question what class you play because last I checked the only mobs where I could not just fight through the AE would be Matron and Cheldrak.  So I honestly am very confused as to what point you are trying to make because it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.</P> <P>Back to the AAs.  You are right in saying that there will probably not be a lot of difference between an assassin with 50AAs and an assassin with 100. You could probably do fine without getting them, but they are beneficial to some extent and with all the new quests, exploration, and nameds to kill you are going to get most of them anyway so why not make the most of it and stop dwelling on the negative.  Just the deity quests alone are probably going to get you 10+AAs, not to mention 5 new HQs, 4 or 5 signature quests, a line that will probably be lot like claymore etc you are going to get most of your AAs anyway and since you cant put them in the old tree why let em sit there? Instead of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing and whining and being negative look at how you can at least get some benefit from them because some is more than what you had before.  I am always looking for ways to add another 50 or 100DPS to my parses, if I can squeeze 100DPS out of these AAs than I am better than I was before.</P><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:38 PM</span>

[prochu]

<P>it is easy,all this new aa are USELESS,lesser duration on scraping blow and deadly blow will be........150 damage or so each 30 second GRATS SOE GREAT AA WOOOOOWWW</P> <P>others aa are jokes,5 second less recast on one minuts timer?great another 20 dps on 30 minuts parser</P> <P>remainings aa are 0 dps</P> <P>actually rangers can do 2k dps as assassin so i dont know because ranger should have great aa that double poison proks or more damage from poisons</P> <P> </P>

[Kaiser Sigma]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DaStone wrote:<BR> <P>There are tons of encounters on raids where named has a bad AOE and we drop like flyes where a ranger has another option to stay back and still do a fair amount of dps.  Therefore, up close I feel we should be slightly better DPS,,,thats not bad or negative,,,thats just my point of view.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Cruor, Chel'Drak and Matron. Those are the only encounters where you have to worry about AoEs. If any other AoE kills you then either your resists suck, your healers suck or both. Even in jousting if you know what you are doing you can keep your dps constant without an issues.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>My only problem with all this is the useless hemotoxin AA vs Caustic AA. Not because it's a better deal for rangers but just because the AA per se doesn't make sense. We all know Hemotoxin isn't an option due to poison overwriting itself constantly. It just doesn't make sense to have such an AA.</FONT></P>

[Aphelion012]

From what it looks like the new AA's kind of suck. Really though, considereing where we are in regards to DPS we don't need much. A bit of tweaking is all we could reasonably expect with EoF AA's. What will help with boosting DPS is the new stat caps, and the abilities from the gods (just my 2cp). <div></div>

[HellRaiserXX]

<DIV>and with the cruor AE, even though it [Removed for Content] if you cure it fast enough with a potion or group cure it is not really problematic.</DIV>

[Astyr]

<DIV>1. Rangers can do good DPS. Good rangers. They have to work hard to get to the peaks, but so have the assassins. A very good ranger and a very good assassin will have no more than 100 or maybe 150 DPS difference (zone DPS). Especially in those zones with Stun-AE or AE-Taunt mobs the rangers can quite compare. Just because so many rangers whine on the forums it doesn't mean they are an unplayable class next in DPS to templars and mystics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. I don't care for rangers. This is the assassin's board. This thread covers the assassin's EoF AA line. If the rangers get a group heal and can fire ice novas instead of arrows - I don't care.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. The assassin's EoF AA line sucks. Not in comparison to any other class - it sucks by itself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>Solo abilities (sprint, cheap shot ...): Ok, there needs to be some stuff for soloing - but this is a MMORPG with one of the Ms standing for multiplayer, so why is 50% of the tree starters intended for solo players? And then such garbage - which sane assassin chooses the runspeed thing? What for? We are to kill our enemies not to win sprint races. Cheap shot is nice for soloers, but give them something useful instead of the runspeed thing (make the root a positional root, knockback on one ranged attack ...) AND move it to the solo tree. </LI> <LI>Decrease duration here, reduce recast there ....  Who is the creative director responsible for that AA tree? Assassin is a fun class to play and I enjoy every day playing, however where is the creativity gone in that tree? Surely one or two recast and duration reductions are nice, but change at least some AA leaves to  something a little more class specific. Assassins are a DPS class, so surely some would enjoy some small boost on DPS here and there (e.g. upgrading the offensive stance slightly). If you want to go away from the current assassin (as a blade whirling butcher) give them the ability to aim (e.g. CA  to increase the crit chance temporarily  => concrete example: instead of the recast thing on deadly focus just add 4% melee crit per point invested up to a total of 20%, same could apply for honed reflexes with spell crit).   The assassin has the very useful aggro transfer line (murderous design) - give them some more % or the ability to transfer hate to a raid friend, not group friend (something for the raiders). It needs not to be unbalanced - just add more flavour!</LI> <LI>Defense stance penalties removement is nice for the  0,01% of players using it. We are an offensive class.... why not consider the same as well for the offense stance? It doesn't add DPS, it just makes assassins stand some hits before biting the dust.</LI></UL> <P>I would love to get some feedback on the assassin's AA tree on the beta forums, but since I am not in beta, I have to hope that somehow my proposals are seen by the all-mighty all-seeing  DEV-eye.</P> <P>Sulan</P> <P> </P> <P>PS: Note for forum trolls, rangers  and troll-rangers: This is a constructive post offering options how to change the current beta status of the EoF  AA line for assassins. This is not whining or complaining - it's on how to make things better (in my personal opinion). So skip flaming <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Astyr on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:26 PM</span>

[Vertis]

<DIV>With a 5 minute recast Frontload should last at least 10 seconds.</DIV>

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astyr wrote:<BR> <P>PS: Note for forum trolls, rangers  and troll-rangers: This is a constructive post offering options how to change the current beta status of the EoF  AA line for assassins. This is not whining or complaining - it's on how to make things better (in my personal opinion). So skip flaming <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As the resident troll-ranger of this thread I give your post a solid two thumbs up.</P> <P>Putting aside your dislike of the ranger class :smileytongue: your post was well laid out and show that your are a well informed player on both classes.  I reserve my flaming for the uninformed posters like what's his name up there :smileywink:</P> <P> </P>

[HellRaiserXX]

<P>Im on beta forums and there is nothing there about the possibility of anything getting changed.</P> <P>Frontload was fixed today so it affected all procs, not just spell procs.  Didnt change the duration at all so its still meh</P><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:16 PM</span>

[HellRaiserXX]

<P>If you go read through the other scout AA lines, none are really that great and NONE give one scout class any kind of new advantage over the other.  We are all basically the same as before EoF with just some minor tuning and such here and there.  Ranger AAs are almost identical to ours except they get caustic instead of hemo and they get a double attack finisher on one line, but it looks like the chance to actually double attack is fairly low, may have misread, but certainly nothing overpowering. Of the scouts, Swashys look like they probably got the best lines, but none of them are increase in DPS, just debuffs. </P> <P>So not a lot has changed across the scout classes and I am betting it is pretty constant across the board.  Our job is DPS so our AAs dont address that, thats the whole point, the new AAs are supposed to change things not directly related to the main purpose of the class. I wish they would be more of a fine toning for areas we are weak in, which I think was probably the intention, but I am absolutely positive that the purpose of EoF AAs was not to make you able to do your job better, but to "hone" some weaker areas so to speak.  I like everyone else was expecting AAs that increased my DPS, but when I started testing them the reason behind them became clear. </P> <P>So if you are asking for things that increase DPS in AAs its not going to happen.  If any changes are made at all, it will be to increase the current EoF AAs and if that happens it will be across the board for everyone and really wont change anything. Its hard to deal with I know, but we will all get through it.  Dont let these AAs take away your excitement for EoF because the expansion is totally amazing.  Easily by large multiples the best expansion so far, hopefully it holds out. </P>

[Velocidad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> DaStone wrote: <div>" think it's clear there's an attempt going on to even out rangers and assassins. if it works out, great; they should do the same dmg as us but here's predicting it won't work out and the flip flop will continue"</div> <div> </div> <div>BTW I just wanted to make a comment on this...this is wrong,,rangers can attack from a distance, they dont have to work behind and try to get in postion each time to push out some good dps, also, AE alone makes rangers survialbity,,,,where assassins are gettined wiped clean,,,,the trade off should be assassins have higher DPS that is just right.  </div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>You know everytime I read some assassin or any other class make this same exact arguement only one thing comes to mind.  They must have the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]tiest rangers in their guilds that haven't a clue how to play the class or they have no rangers in their guild and just like to make uninformed statements that just point out how stupid they are.  Congratz on either being guilded with horrible rangers or just being clueless and talking out your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Not sure which category you fit in but it's gauranteed to be one of them.</p> <hr></blockquote>I still blame the thoughts of Rangers being sub -par on the T6 effect where Rangers could sit back with Stream on and watch the procs fire off in an unending torrent.To many players either jumped on the dps bandwagon or just forgot what had to be done to produce dps. Even at this point I still run across rangers that never come in to use their melee skills, therefore loosing alot of dps. That in itself creates the bad feelings everyone has about the class.As for the AAs...I can live with them or without. A couple of them have potential, the rest or just wasted pixels on my monitor. The poison line will be my primary priority and the left over points will get put into whatever connects and compliments my playstyle the best.</div>

[Kokus]

<DIV>Great, just what I wanted to do with the expansion, spend alot of effort for very little gain.</DIV>

[GerOcrana]

<DIV>mhm,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I read the most Postings in different Threads about the new Assassin EoF AA Tree... Some Skills in that Tree was changed, is that correct ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sprint AA... one skill and the defense Stance i never used that and now we get a AA for that useless ones ? Some Peoples said it, we are an offensive Class not a defense one. I saw the EoF Archievment Tree from Rangers, some ones are really nice. What is what we get ? More useless stuff... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frontload got a big lol, Autoattack swings 1/2 Times with a doubled Proc Chance for 2 Seconds lolly really. And the Peoples with slower Weapons like Grinning Dirk of Horror, they could whining and forget the skill. Nothing worth to spend the point in that Skill. Yes of Course its a nice idea for an AA Special, i hope SOE upped that skill. I read something about new changes in the EoF AA Tree. Some Stuff Concealment AA Tree and those things. The Informations in that Thread are nice but old, can anyone update this ? that would be cool :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit : the Poison Hemotoxin is a big Joke, the Poison procs within Melee Range very often. I mean it replaces himself before that running out. A Ranger got Caustic, it should be so -> Assassin - Caustic , and a Ranger Hemotoxin... why ? A Ranger has a slower Autoattack (Range) Delay as an Assassin and makes more sense.</DIV> <DIV>I dont think that any Dev played an Assassin on Raids or a Ranger, i hope SOE fix something out... </DIV><p>Message Edited by GerOcrana on <span class=date_text>11-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:44 AM</span>

[Kimage]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Remmagell wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HellRaiserXX wrote:<BR> <P>why are you playing an assassin?  I get sick of you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s who never have anything useful to say and are always negative about the class.  As far as classes go Assassins are probably the only class that was actually done right in the first place and hasnt needed any kind of help. Pretty much every change that affected our class were not because of our class and the ones that were directed specifically at us was the correct change to make, IE reducing Surveil range, ya it sucked to not have it, but it was the right change to make and we all knew it. </P> <P>Please dont reply to this thread if all you are gonna say is these AAs suck cause you obviously dont understand whats going on.  This is supposed to be for us to discuss how these AAs can better our class and they do do that, just not in the overpoweringly godly way everyone was expecting.   </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I will say it straight, these AA's DO suck in their present form there's nothing there that says to me I MUST get all 50 aa's now cos that's sooooooo kewl. They are, however, more or less what we are gonna see on live I really don't see the dev's making huge sweeping changes to them at this late stage. Though I'm sure there will be some fixing up done<BR><BR>Yes they better the class however do so only marginally, so I see this thread as us making the best of what we are given.<BR><BR>The path isn't as clear cut as KoS was and it's gonna take a lot of parsing and experimentation to figure which way to go, it does seem that there's no set path for maxing your dps this time around which is prolly a good thing, no more cookie cutter aa's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>Front load shows a lot of promise once the duration is fixed (2 seconds ahahahaahah) and the poison line looks rather interesting. The reductions in recast on honed and brutal are tempting too.<BR><BR>Time to load up ACT and play around <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> HEY AT LEAST YOU HAVE GOOD KOS AA's - My main SUCKS for AA's - EoF is actually something where I get to chose and contemplat and have CHOISES! </P> <P> </P> <P>Anyways - I like the EoF AA's both for my Defiler and for my Assassin. Gonna have to play with them a lot to figure out what fits my play style and gives me good dps for my assassin. </P> <P>Btw good job itemizing it all out. </P>

[HellRaiserXX]

<P>From what I understand, poisons proc roughly 1 every 7 sec regardless of what kind of weapon delay you have.  So even though my auto attack is much faster than a rangers, it should still proc roughly the same. Frontload doubles that chance so it will proc once every 3.5sec so in theory by using it you should get 2 extra procs in the 15 sec that frontload is up.  Someone who knows better correct me if Im wrong in this line of thought. The problem with Hemo is that it lasts for 24sec and with procs happening every 7 it gets overridden long before it ticks out. I do know some assassins who use hemo over caustic and they do insane DPS still so it might be that Hemo isnt so bad and lowering the duration will make it even better. </P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=17424" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=17424</A></P> <P>This thread details the updates to the assassin AAs, if you scroll down youll see additional comments by myself and further down comments on my comments by Kel. </P> <P>The expansion comes out today so there will be a lot more people testing these AAs and who knows what last second changes may have gone in. In the next few weeks we should be seeing much more info on which AAs are probably best and what kind of benefits they give us.</P><p>Message Edited by HellRaiserXX on <span class=date_text>11-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 AM</span>

[GerOcrana]

<P>thanks for info, but im a fan from caustic <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P> </P> <P>but another thing in the new Updates, ive got a question in addition : </P> <P>Repeated Stabbing - 1 rank - Increase recovery speed 100% - passive boost... not reuse, but recovery - which is like half a second or so... not great, but when you're keeping every attack greyed out, this will add up over the long term on a raid, adds more autoattack time..</P> <P>is THAT over this here the combo for concealment ? and how does it works ? increases that the concealment special who gives the assassin 20% more crits and increases the timer from 7 to 12 seks ? or was the Posting in an other thread a wish for an AA Skill ?</P> <P>Questions over questions <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P> </P> <P>edit: i found that into your Link : </P> <P>--Enhance concealment [Passive]<BR>  While under the concealment effect melee attacks gain a 20% chance to crit <--- is that a wish or is that the Bonus in our AA EoF Line ? oO</P> <P>I dont understand the Change from Silencing... it sounds like a second concealment but for what need a Passive Recovery Stealth Skill ? sorry but i wanna see it in practice. But most of the EoF Lines arent good... i saw the swashbuckler Lines and what we get is a joke, nobody use the defense stance in Raids. The Bleeding Archievment is useful in Raids okay. Frontload... uhm 15 secs doubles poisonprocs... 15 % or 25 % is much and the poisons triggers very often at this time. Why doubles when only effects Poisons ??? I never used Sprint or Def Stance and think many Assassin Players use that too and i think the EoF Assassin AAs are crap, nothing stuff for raids. Maybe 1-2 things are nice but the rest sounds crappy <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by GerOcrana on <span class=date_text>11-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:08 PM</span>

[HellRaiserXX]

<P>Enhance concealment was a wish list thing.  The change to Silencing is Repeated Stabbing.  Repeated stabbing will go great with concealment, especially down the line if we get more stealth attacks. </P> <P>Frontload doesnt just affect poisons, it will double the trigger rate on weapon and spell procs as well, like Off stance.</P> <P>Murdering line is pretty good I think, +effect on exacting, honed reflexes, and deadly focus is nice and the finisher for that line isnt bad. Another stealth and if you are good you can time it with a big AE like cruors and avoid it.  Its basically a Dirges AoE immunity ability with a stealth component.  Has to be used right to be very useful. </P> <P>With the Bleed AAs only affecting dot portions they arent really that different than lowering the duration and I almost think lower duration is better.  Excessive Bleeding still looks like a pretty good ability, will probably take it first just to see how much of an effect it has.</P> <P>Poison line is good all around except for Apply Poison, which you dont have to take if you put 15points into the line and Frontload looks fairly decent.</P> <P>Still dont really like the Tricks line, but the 100% recovery speed increase looks interesting.  </P> <P> </P>

[Mr. Dawki]

<FONT color=#ff0000 size=7>SU&P!</FONT>

[t0gar]

logged in and looking at frontload right now and it says, "Trigger chances on all your abilities are doubled." Is this just talking about our combat arts or are poisons included? And even with 2 extra procs of poison, in a raid that wont amount to all those wasted AA points IMO. The only finishing AA ability i see myself taking is bleeding. Getaway doesn't seem all that bad either, but again you'd be wasting so many AA points to get it just for an extra sneak/AoE dodge when you can back up and use a bow instead while keeping up that DPS(in most cases) and with concealment you can blow through all your sneak abilities anyways. <div></div>

[Mr. Dawki]

<DIV>supposedly frontload is going to double all procs on you at the time</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>weapon procs</DIV> <DIV>skill procs</DIV> <DIV>buff dmg procs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if it procs and it is set off by you its chance is doubled</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>extensive testing will be needed to be sure of this tho</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>try grping with a conj</DIV> <DIV>have him put fire seed on you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>use frontload</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>see if it changed</DIV>