Help with DPS and CA's

[meowster007]

<DIV>Maybe its been discussed on these forums before but im going to ask because i cant seem to find the information.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When trying to max DPS is there any Combat Arts that i shouldnt be useing? meaning regular auto is better than using a specific CA?.  What about Area of effect attacks, do you use them even on a single target or is it better to only use them when there are multiple mobs? Do you unload every skill you have if time permits for maximum dps.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess thats it in a nutshell.</DIV> <DIV>Hopefully someone can set me on the straight and narrow because im getting to the point where my dps is being watched <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV> <DIV>Morack</DIV>

[beliker]

<div></div>Since m 95% sure that you will auto attack regardless of Combat Arts, theres really no reason not to use them if your can avoid the aggro they no doubt bring. Our aos require stealth, and we have something like 5 big hitters out of stealth that said stealth is much suited for them some weak [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] aoe, so  never se them. I travel in a tri, bruiser myself and a brig, all 35-38. Generally what I will do is  under group stealth the bruiser will run int othe mob (>>&gt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and donkey punch it, followed by 100 hand slap this will turn it around. I then open up with our two back bow attacks, followed by the double bow attack. I then hit imp weapon as I run in. Cheap shot into Exposed Attack. If the mob is over 50% hp  I will use bloodthirster, then  Shadow into Slice Throat. Then if it still has alot of hps I will stealth then hit condemning blade. If the mob was 50% when I run in which it ussually is I will open with condemning blade, shadow then do bloodthrister, and its ussually dead. I don't like to open up with condemn if its over half health cause there is a good chance that when I use it its gonna aggro me, and when it does if its not close to dieing, I do. All my big hitters are adept 3 to master 2, so they hit pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard. <div></div><p>Message Edited by belikeron on <span class=date_text>10-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:46 PM</span>

[khufure]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>meowster007 wrote:<div>Maybe its been discussed on these forums before but im going to ask because i cant seem to find the information.</div> <div> </div> <div>When trying to max DPS is there any Combat Arts that i shouldnt be useing? meaning regular auto is better than using a specific CA?.  What about Area of effect attacks, do you use them even on a single target or is it better to only use them when there are multiple mobs? Do you unload every skill you have if time permits for maximum dps.  </div> <div> </div> <div>I guess thats it in a nutshell.</div> <div>Hopefully someone can set me on the straight and narrow because im getting to the point where my dps is being watched <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks</div> <div>Morack</div><hr></blockquote>Assuming raid setting.  Spam everything.  Let auto attack go off between CAs; don't 'queue' up your attacks.  It's easier with higher delay weapons to time this properly.  I setup a tab in my chat window that shows me when I hit something.  I wait for the piercing auto-attacks to show then I go to next CA.Also, always use caustic poison.  You should be in a regen group (bard or enchanter) and get heart/shard.  I have found using beholder totems helps.  Get as close to 100% speed/dps as possible.</div><p>Message Edited by khufure on <span class=date_text>10-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:21 PM</span>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>Allso it is comand habbit for alot of Assassin for when the dps is needed to just run out and let off the big attack's. However what little amount of de-buff's We have does make the dps slightly higher so remember to use all de-buff's befor leting off the big skills.</P> <P>Allso the AE's V.s a single mob is not needed as such except for the AE DOT which build's up a fiar amount of DPS and the re-timer isn't that bad so in a raid situwation useing it each and every time it is up does help the DPS flow.</P> <P>Anyway's each has there own style of playing this class however when I'm wanting to go all out DPS wise it generaly start's off like.</P> <P> </P> <P>1st = Mark + DOT Frontal CA's. 2nd = All Buff's on (I mean the 1s that only last like 30secs to 1min) then all Debuff's unleashed (Enemesh takes more poisen resist then the dagger AA CA so dont use the dagger CA untill enemesh is over). 3rd All backstab's and the AE DOT 4th is all frontal and backstabs are over run back abit throw wepon then at a distence use all Bow CA's.</P> <P>By then most You'r frontal mark and debuff's should be active again to repeat process , Anyways there is probally a ton more way's to eithen do better then that but in My experience Assassins DPS is random from fight to fight depending on CA timer's, Group set up's, and Mob requierment's.</P><p>Message Edited by Forsaken Falcon on <span class=date_text>10-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:56 PM</span>

[beliker]

The thing with the AoE though, is unless you have other aoe classes going ape [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] all over the mobs, using it isn't a good idea id imagine, since your not going back into stealth anytime soon with those adds on you now. Of course I trio with a bruiser and brig, if that bruiser was say a guard it would be a non factor anymore, but then we would need a healer, and playing a healer on pvp servers is terribly frustrating(I was the healer, and thats why im an assy now =p) <div></div>

[Nelyia]

<div><blockquote><hr>khufure wrote (snipped):<div></div><div>Assuming raid setting.  Spam everything.  Let auto attack go off between CAs; don't 'queue' up your attacks.  It's easier with higher delay weapons to time this properly.  I setup a tab in my chat window that shows me when I hit something.  I wait for the piercing auto-attacks to show then I go to next CA.</div><hr></blockquote>A quick question: is it possible to display only autoattack hits minus the CA's? If I enable "melee combat / you hit" combat chat, it displays every attack I use, which makes it hard to identify the autoattack at a glance (add a hectic situation, low framerate and the delay it seems to have displaying the hits, reacting to the primary hand autoattack is pretty hard to impossible for me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</div>

[K'aldar]

<div><blockquote><hr>belikeron wrote:The thing with the AoE though, is unless you have other aoe classes going ape [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] all over the mobs, using it isn't a good idea id imagine, since your not going back into stealth anytime soon with those adds on you now. Of course I trio with a bruiser and brig, if that bruiser was say a guard it would be a non factor anymore, but then we would need a healer, and playing a healer on pvp servers is terribly frustrating(I was the healer, and thats why im an assy now =p) <div></div><hr></blockquote>if you pull aggro as an assassin with just ae's then you either attacked before the tank had time to taunt, or they're not a very good tank.   there's a reason why warlocks and wizards pull aggro on ae's... its because they can do a ton more than us.   our strength on ae's is to use them both then burn one target down at a time, gives us less aggro.</div>

[Dracor]

My combat style usually goes something similar to:Biggest backstab that is upShroud backstab hitNext Biggest upThen HOThen Anathema and then Oozing Wound (this completes the HO)Then Bladed Opening (AA ability)Then CrippleThen regular onhand hitThen MarkThen Shrouded backstab hitThen Next biggest backstab availableThen Paralyzing strikeThen Improvised weaponIf I am using poisons (which I only do if the mobs are rough to take down) I throw in a moor right after the HO completesOf course, this is a default combat style. I probably use it only 40% of the time. Most of the time, I am dynamically changing it due to the battle.<div></div>

[khufure]

<div><blockquote><hr>thefang wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>khufure wrote (snipped):<div></div><div>Assuming raid setting.  Spam everything.  Let auto attack go off between CAs; don't 'queue' up your attacks.  It's easier with higher delay weapons to time this properly.  I setup a tab in my chat window that shows me when I hit something.  I wait for the piercing auto-attacks to show then I go to next CA.</div><hr></blockquote>A quick question: is it possible to display only autoattack hits minus the CA's? If I enable "melee combat / you hit" combat chat, it displays every attack I use, which makes it hard to identify the autoattack at a glance (add a hectic situation, low framerate and the delay it seems to have displaying the hits, reacting to the primary hand autoattack is pretty hard to impossible for me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</div><hr></blockquote>No, good question.  I looked but could not find a UI or a setting to show only auto attack.  What I ended up doing was learning the timing on the auto-attack weapon.  I stopped looking at this tab once that happened.</div>

[Pexsus]

Wow, i'm still reletively new to the assassin scene, having betrayed my ranger at 61, but the replies to this post kind of amaze me.  I ALWAYS open up with my mark, dots and debufs to maximize my "freebie" damage and then blast it down with the high hits at the end just before reapplying any dots that have come back up.  With concealment and our hate transfer I can chain our big 4 stealth attacks (I generally leave puncture blade to combo with the stealth attack) and both AOE's before concealment ends and not wind up with aggro. Admittedly this leaves me kind of hangin out in the breeze when you are facing quick fights, but for any fight that lasts a decent amount of time I'm doing fairly huge dps even with non-fabled weapons/armor and mostly adept III's.  Do your tactics change in raid settings or are you guys always using those kind of combinations regardless of mob difficulty/fight durations?

[khufure]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dracorat wrote:My combat style usually goes something similar to:Biggest backstab that is upShroud backstab hitNext Biggest upThen HOThen Anathema and then Oozing Wound (this completes the HO)Then Bladed Opening (AA ability)Then CrippleThen regular onhand hitThen MarkThen Shrouded backstab hitThen Next biggest backstab availableThen Paralyzing strikeThen Improvised weaponIf I am using poisons (which I only do if the mobs are rough to take down) I throw in a moor right after the HO completesOf course, this is a default combat style. I probably use it only 40% of the time. Most of the time, I am dynamically changing it due to the battle.<div></div><hr></blockquote>In raids I do:- temp buffs before pull- stealth in, cloaked assault- mark, DOTs- wait for brigand to indicate debuffs out.  during this time use non-stealth attacks- once debuffs are out, use concealment and burn mob with all backstabs- trigger heart, shard, manastone if long fight.  let auto attack go off between.- repeatMy one exception to this pattern is that If mark is up, I use it immediately.</div>

[Dracor]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pexsus wrote:<div></div>Do your tactics change in raid settings or are you guys always using those kind of combinations regardless of mob difficulty/fight durations?<hr></blockquote>The only time it changes is for mobs I can three shot or so. In raids, I use what I wrote up until the mob is dead. The only exception to my overall style as far as changeup in generic goes is that I save Assassinate for when we fight named mobs. If the mob is not a named, I never assassinate them, saving it for the next named (or the random PvP battle that finds me as is wont to do in some areas).</div>

[beliker]

<blockquote><hr>K'aldar wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>belikeron wrote:The thing with the AoE though, is unless you have other aoe classes going ape [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] all over the mobs, using it isn't a good idea id imagine, since your not going back into stealth anytime soon with those adds on you now. Of course I trio with a bruiser and brig, if that bruiser was say a guard it would be a non factor anymore, but then we would need a healer, and playing a healer on pvp servers is terribly frustrating(I was the healer, and thats why im an assy now =p) <div></div><hr></blockquote>if you pull aggro as an assassin with just ae's then you either attacked before the tank had time to taunt, or they're not a very good tank.   there's a reason why warlocks and wizards pull aggro on ae's... its because they can do a ton more than us.   our strength on ae's is to use them both then burn one target down at a time, gives us less aggro.</div><hr></blockquote>Im on a pvp server in a trio of Myself(Assassin) a Bruiser, and a brigand, so if I start aoeing, im gonna get add aggro since no one else in the group really has impressive aoe abilities.<div></div>

[HazNpho]

My personal oppinion is slightly different, I group with a dirge, we are both in the T6 area and with his buffs and my FBSS and skill, I can hit 100% DPS and Haste, for the time that I have that in effect I have avoided using CA's checked my parser and did about 3x what I do using CA's mind you the buff is only about 30 seconds so keep your CA's ready. As for AoE, we have a DoT AoE that is very effective, I can, in a good group run through every single stealth attack I have and use those, I normally use my DoT AoE right at the start, 2 reasons, It does DoT, plus it has a chance of Proc'ing every enemy with poisons, Damage and Attack Speed Debuff in my case. The advantage of this is they are already wounded by the time we kill one and move to them, and they deal less damage over time to the MT due to the poisons on them. Its all up to the player, and of course the group your in, I was in a zone that was completely orange to every one of us. Our group was a Guard (with his aid buffs targeted on me, at least the ones that could, the others were on the healer) a Conj (again buffing me for DoT and extra Proc) a Dirge (once again primary buffs on me) and a fury. we were all within about 2 lvls of eachother and we completely wasted the zone. So the tactic I had worked for us. Will it work for others... its hard to say, best to actually work out your own. Its all up to you, one thing I would suggest is get a parser, I've noticed that I am dropping mobs 10x faster then I was before just by using my parser. Yes I'm a glutten for punishment with reading the stats every night. But it has not steered me wrong so far.<div></div>