Question about Cheap Shot

[ghri]

<div></div>Hello all,i recently came back to eq2 after quite a long break and started fresh with an assassin - having only played casters before.I must say, i am having a blast so far! I am always moving, trying to hit with my positional attacks - quite a difference to my old caster, who just stood at one place and threw his spells at the mobs <span>:smileywink:</span>Well, but recently ( I am 28 now) I face the following problem:When I fight against heroics and get aggro, I try the combo: <font face="Courier New">Cheap Shot, Shrouded Strike </font>(I need to face the mob from side or behind, and I get into stealth afterwards), then I try to get a stealth attack off.But it happens really often, that I am NOT in stealth after shrouded strike. Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong? Missing quite a lot of damage really hurts.(on a side note: i have <font face="Courier New">Shrouded Strike </font>only as App 4 at the moment, could this be the problem?)Another thing about Cheap Shot. As far as I get it, it is our only stun (besides a specific AA path). But the spell descripton says, that mobs level 48+ resist it easier.Does it scale with my level (i havent looked at the spell description before)? It cannot get useless after level 48, can it?<div></div>Thansk in advance for your feedback!regards

[UberC]

Well, this does not happen alot, but you certaintly notice when it does happen, it is rather annoying.I did some checking on this as it was happening an awful lot (or so it seemed, truth of the matter is thats its less than 10% of the time)I looked at my combat log, saw masked attack (same as your shrouded) had hit, then it had blah blah blah Masked attack hit for xxxxYou stop fightingYou start fightingNot sure on what the cause is, I wondered if it was some sort of lag with the auto attack turning off... still not sure though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[t0gar]

<div></div>Cheap shot will last for 2 seconds on anything ^ or above. You have time to get behind and used a masked attack, but your stun will have worn off by the time this is done and the mob will break your invis. Use another back attack if you can. You will rarely get off a stun, masked, in-sneak attack off, or atleast not often enough to make it a practice. *Edit: Yes Cheap shot does scale to your level* <div></div><p>Message Edited by t0gar on <span class=date_text>10-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:18 PM</span>

[Velth]

Try this:Cheap Shot + Surveillance (while moving behind, it casts while in motion), soon as you hit stealth, hit your best backstab. Usually works if the mob isn't ^^ or ^^^. Ive also had luck with doing a root+stun+surveillance+backstab.Good luck.

[Recca[BK]]

the surveil line is toooooo slow. once you get to 55 you can use conceal until then your just gonna have to get lucky stunning jumping over the mob and masking then stabing.

[Velth]

The cheap shot + surv. tactic is because he isn't level 55 yet. Once he hits 55, cheap shot + conceal + backstab + root, backup + ranged attacks, debuff, cheap shot + surv, backstab, etc. Mobs fall fast.

[Toravisu]

Sometimes, if you jump around a lot, you can get off that in-stealth attack after Cheap Shot and Masked Attacked.Too bad my server hasn't had a Concealment up in awhile... still need it.<div></div>

[Recca[BK]]

since when is concealemetn uncraftable.again surveil is much to slow when using cheapshot, a better tactic is cheapshot jump over the mob masked attack (added dmg to invis) then backstabalso you dont need to use cheapshot before conceal. just use it hit the mob and do your backstabs from the front. its been said before mobs hit pretty slow if you are payin attention you can time your conceal and the backstabs so you dont even have to move an inch.

[EtoilePirate]

<div><blockquote><hr>UberCiz wrote:Well, this does not happen alot, but you certaintly notice when it does happen, it is rather annoying.I did some checking on this as it was happening an awful lot (or so it seemed, truth of the matter is thats its less than 10% of the time)I looked at my combat log, saw masked attack (same as your shrouded) had hit, then it had blah blah blah Masked attack hit for xxxxYou stop fightingYou start fightingNot sure on what the cause is, I wondered if it was some sort of lag with the auto attack turning off... still not sure though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>That is how it should work; I can't remember all the details anymore (it's been more than a year, after all) but I remember during the DoF Beta and the Combat Changes (LU13) testing on Test, we kept running into problems where skills made other skills unusable and having it turn auto attack off like that was the solution that made soloing with Cheap Shot work.As for Cheap Shot, a recent patch made all stuns, roots, mezzes, and stifles show the level at which they lose efficacy, which is twenty or so levels above your own; I think that on a 70 Cheap Shot says it stops being effective above level 93 but I may be mis-remembering.  (Like so many others, I'm posting from work during the day so I can't really check.)Having an App IV Shrouded Strike is certainly not helping you; try harvesting for a loam and seeing if the Adept 3 helps you any.  I know that I have the Master I Masked Attack and I haven't had a single problem with it that I can recall, including heroic and epic instances.</div>

[Sotaudi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Recca[BK] wrote:<BR>since when is concealemetn uncraftable.<BR><BR>again surveil is much to slow when using cheapshot, a better tactic is cheapshot jump over the mob masked attack (added dmg to invis) then backstab<BR><BR>also you dont need to use cheapshot before conceal. just use it hit the mob and do your backstabs from the front. its been said before mobs hit pretty slow if you are payin attention you can time your conceal and the backstabs so you dont even have to move an inch.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think you are using the term "Backstabs" too loosely.  You cannot "backstab" unless you are at least flanking the target.  If you do not move, you cannot be behind the target if the mob is attacking you.</P> <P>On the other hand, there is only one Assassin attack that requires both stealth and position (at least at 42).  The other three stealth attacks (at that level) just require stealth, not position (five, if you count the AoE attacks).  Thus, what you say is correct.  If you time it right, you can go into stealth with either of the two in-combat stealth moves and immediately fire off one of the non-positional stealth attacks without moving.  You cannot, however, do that with the positional stealth attack, which would technically be the "backstab" attack.</P> <P>There is one exception to the above, sort of.  If you start moving, then fire off Cheap Shot, the mob will often continue turning to face you even though it is stunned.  This is more of a display bug in that the system will still recognize you has flanking it and let you get off the positional attacks even though, on your screen, it will appear that the mob is facing you.  Other than that one exception, though, the "backstab" attack will not work unless you get to the side of or behind the target.</P>

[Sotaudi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ghrian wrote:<BR> Hello all,<BR>i recently came back to eq2 after quite a long break and started fresh with an assassin - having only played casters before.<BR><BR>I must say, i am having a blast so far! I am always moving, trying to hit with my positional attacks - quite a difference to my old caster, who just stood at one place and threw his spells at the mobs <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN><BR><BR>Well, but recently ( I am 28 now) I face the following problem:<BR>When I fight against heroics and get aggro, I try the combo: <FONT face="Courier New">Cheap Shot, Shrouded Strike </FONT>(I need to face the mob from side or behind, and I get into stealth afterwards), then I try to get a stealth attack off.<BR><BR>But it happens really often, that I am NOT in stealth after shrouded strike. Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong? Missing quite a lot of damage really hurts.<BR>(on a side note: i have <FONT face="Courier New">Shrouded Strike </FONT>only as App 4 at the moment, could this be the problem?)<BR><BR>Another thing about Cheap Shot. As far as I get it, it is our only stun (besides a specific AA path). But the spell descripton says, that mobs level 48+ resist it easier.<BR>Does it scale with my level (i havent looked at the spell description before)? It cannot get useless after level 48, can it?<BR><BR> Thansk in advance for your feedback!<BR><BR>regards<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As others have said, Cheap Shot does scale.  Also, as others have said, Cheap Shot has a really short effect duration for anything with a ^ or above.  This makes getting off the Cheap Shot - Shrouded Strike - Ebon Blade sequence difficult.</P> <P>There are a couple of things to keep in mind, though.  First, you may find it more efficient to start moving then fire Cheap Shot.  This will give you a few extra fractions of a second over firing Cheap Shot then starting to move.  Just note, as I indicated in my previous post, that the mob may look like it continues to turn to face you even though it is not (i.e., even though it looked like it continued to move, it technically stopped moving as soon as it was stunned).  So if you get timing down and know just how far to move, it does not matter.  Move, fire cheap shot, keep moving a little further, then fire Shrouded Strike and Ebon Blade.</P> <P>Second, if you are finding that you are missing the timing more than you are hitting, Cheap Shot followed by Shadow followed immediately by one of the non-positional Stealth attacks (e.g., Assassin's Blade) does not require you to move, so the timing is a little easier.</P> <P>Also, keep in mind that you can get off a stealth attack without using Cheap Shot provided you time it so that you go into stealth and fire off a non-positional stealth attack between the mob's swings.  Ironically, I have found that Stealth, with its longer cast, is more reliable for this.  This is because you can get hit while casting Stealth, and it will not stop you from casting it.  So as long as the point where Stealth casts and you fire off your stealthed attack is between swings of the mob, you can usually get it off.  The Shadow line is a bit less reliable, even though it has a relatively quick cast time, at least in my experience.  But it is possible to get off non-positional stealthed attacks without Cheap Shot.  I have even been able to get off one of the AoE attacks with more than one mob on me.  It is not very easy, so you fail more than it works, but, if you have multiple mobs on you and your regular CAs are still refreshing, it does not hurt to try.</P> <P> </P>

[ghri]

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. That means, that it isnt game mechanic per se, I simply have to optimize my attacks a bit. Sounds quite promising.I need to try out, how I can get the incombat stealth -> stealth attack move on a mob, which is facing and attacking me. Havent tried to sync my moves with its attacks before.(Which urges me to reorganize my hotkeys again. Way too many CAs I need to use constantly <span>:smileywink:</span>)I have a nice M1 Exposed Attack spell in my bank (got it quite cheap on the broker), only 3 more levels to go. Hopefully this helps too.Lets see how all this works out.<div></div>

[EtoilePirate]

<div><blockquote><hr>ghrian wrote:Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. That means, that it isnt game mechanic per se, I simply have to optimize my attacks a bit. Sounds quite promising.I need to try out, how I can get the incombat stealth -> stealth attack move on a mob, which is facing and attacking me. Havent tried to sync my moves with its attacks before.(Which urges me to reorganize my hotkeys again. Way too many CAs I need to use constantly <span>:smileywink:</span>)I have a nice M1 Exposed Attack spell in my bank (got it quite cheap on the broker), only 3 more levels to go. Hopefully this helps too.Lets see how all this works out.<div></div><hr></blockquote>That reminds me: somewhere under viewing options there are settings for auto-face during combat.  If your main is an Assassin you're far better off turning those off, in my opinion.</div>

[HazNpho]

For now, at least untill you can use a backstab attack that does not need stealth, stun is just good for a few quick seconds of pause on damage to you. I suggest lining up your frontal stealth attacks, you have Shadow & Slip Away available to you at 28, both of these can put you in stealth, both have a few second cast time... Use that few second cast time to que your stealth attack, I rarely have a mob, even heroics that break my stealth in the .5 seconds it takes to hit them with my stealth attack. When you get cripple at 44, yes I know its a ways off, you will really make use of stunning and jumping over the mob. One thing that is something to consider... This is something I just found out, the Bloodline chronicles has a 11s stun available to scouts, you have to finish the quest on the good side though, at the time that I started the quest a year ago, it was bugged and allowed me to do my quest through the Knights of Marr, now you would have to Betray for a short time to get the quest and possibly finish it as a ranger. Don't know if its worth it though. Or you can take the evil side which has a skill that heals the assassin.<div></div>

[Sotaudi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ghrian wrote:<BR>Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. That means, that it isnt game mechanic per se, I simply have to optimize my attacks a bit. Sounds quite promising.<BR><BR>I need to try out, how I can get the incombat stealth -> stealth attack move on a mob, which is facing and attacking me. Havent tried to sync my moves with its attacks before.<BR>(Which urges me to reorganize my hotkeys again. Way too many CAs I need to use constantly <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN>)<BR><BR>I have a nice M1 Exposed Attack spell in my bank (got it quite cheap on the broker), only 3 more levels to go. Hopefully this helps too.<BR><BR>Lets see how all this works out.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There is no real trick to the timing.  When you are ready, just wait till they hit you.  There will be a couple of seconds till they swing again, so you can fire Shadow (1 second cast time), then fire your non-positional stealth attack immediately and get it in in-between swings.  Alternatively, you can wait till they swing, then fire Stealth.  Stealth has a 2 second cast time, which means that they will usually swing once before it casts, but the attack will not normally interrupt the casting, so you end up casting just after they hit you the second time, then you have time to cast the non-positional stealth attack before they attack again.  In fact, with Stealth, you can even wait a moment after they hit you before casting it to ensure that you cast after they make their next swing, not right as.  As long as the timing is such that they do not attack between the time you actually go into stealth and the time you cast your attack, you are able to get it off.  Ironcially, I find it easiest to use Stealth.  The Shadow line is a little more tricky, especially since you have to get both casts off between swings.  Shadow and its counterparts are not so forgiving about getting hit mid cast.  And since you have more than one way to get into stealth mid combat and more than one non-positional stealth attack, you can use them both.</P> <P>Give it a try and get a feel for it.  It can mean the difference between life and death at times.  Given the choice of sitting there taking a beating while waiting for your other CAs to refresh watching your dangerously red health bar get shorter and shorter and seeing the mob drop with 1,600 point hit even though Cheap Shot was still refreshing, I'll gladly take the latter.</P> <P>HazNpho mentioned Slip Away.  That <EM>is</EM> our third stealth, but, while it is instant cast (which would make it ideal), it is an "out of combat" spell.  If you are firing this between swings, in most cases, that means you are already in combat.  Thus, the spell would not cast.  That leaves only Stealth and the Shadow line for this maneuver.  I suppose it is possible that you could find a situtation where you are not yet in combat and something is swinging on you, where you could fire off Slip Away as an opening move, but once combat is begun, Slip Away should not be available.  I could be wrong since I have never tried to use it in combat, but the description specifically states it is an out-of-combat move.</P> <P> </P>