Our Hate Tranfer and Amends.

[steelbadger]

I joined a group with a pally tanking, he immediately stuck amends on me (41% tranfer?)  woot, I thought.Then I stuck my hate transfer on him, so thats another 23% (yes my hate transfer sucks).now, I am either losing 41% hate then losing 23% of the remaining hate (leaving me with just 45.43% of my origional hate); or I am losing 23% hate then 41% of the remaining hate (leaving me with the same amount, 45.43% hate).  Never know, maybe I'm losing 64% hate because maybe they are calculated at the same time.So, what ever way I looked at it it should be IMPOSSIBLE for me to get aggro from this tank, theoretically I could decapitate a mob and it would charge off to find the tank.  Nope.  I was pulling aggro (occasionally), with me deaggroing and the tank taunting.So, wassup with hate tranfers?  Do they not stack, in any way?<div></div>

[scivias]

Amends and and own hate transfer havn't worked together since they got implemented .. just give the paladin your hate transfer and tell him to put amends somewhere else.. otherwise you'll get agro pretty soon, occasionaly with autoattack alone.Guess it's safe to say that it's bugged, but it's no biggy if you know about it, can be avoided anyway.<div></div>

[Skratttt]

<P>They USED to stack but that was really overpowering....pally could go afk while i destroyed mobs and healer just had to keep pally healed.. (we did this in the rujark 2x area lol....that used to be crazy xp).....</P> <P>Like the AP said do it that way or if no one else to sap aggro just get amends and dont use your transfer......</P>

[Neribus]

<div></div><div></div>Yes, if you have both amends and hate transfer up neither work.  I put my hate transfer on my groups pally  before I noticed he already had amends on me, next fight I pulled the mob off him in 3 of our frontal CAs.  We had to take both hate transfer and amends down then have him recast it on me for the hate to start transfering.My question is: If we use either ignorant bliss, Elude, or Surviellance.  Does the negative hate also get transfered?  A couple times I was grouping after a raid with an old ignorant bliss still up, and the tank never seems to hold agro.<p>Message Edited by Neribus on <span class=date_text>10-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 AM</span>

[steelbadger]

Ok, that is well and trully annoying, I'll have to actually think about that buff now <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><blockquote><hr>Neribus wrote:<div></div><div></div>Yes, if you have both amends and hate transfer up neither work.  I put my hate transfer on my groups pally  before I noticed he already had amends on me, next fight I pulled the mob off him in 3 of our frontal CAs.  We had to take both hate transfer and amends down then have him recast it on me for the hate to start transfering.My question is: If we use either ignorant bliss, Elude, or Surviellance.  Does the negative hate also get transfered?  A couple times I was grouping after a raid with an old ignorant bliss still up, and the tank never seems to hold agro.<p>Message Edited by Neribus on <span class="date_text">10-03-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:15 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I try to move adds onto the tank whenever possible, by doing a low dmg CA to get its attention then deaggroing.  The Elude line does not seem to work for that, where as Surveillance does (I can pull a mob with a single arrow then surveil and it goes to the tank, whereas if I Elude under those circumstances it will stay locked on me).  It may be that the negative hate IS being transfered, and it is the invisibility component of surveil that puts me below the tank on the hate list.No idea about poisons though, not reliable enough to be used in situations like the one above, so the de-aggro effect is harder to follow.<div></div>

[Neribus]

<div></div><div></div>The trick to surviel pulling is to simply have your tank cast a buff as you finish casting surviel.  Technically what you are doing is ranged body pulling. People who group know if during a body pull anyone casts any spells the mob goes directly for them, so having a tank cast a buff during a surviel pull makes the mob go directly to them.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Neribus on <span class=date_text>10-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:44 PM</span>

[khufure]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Neribus wrote:<div></div><div></div>Yes, if you have both amends and hate transfer up neither work.  I put my hate transfer on my groups pally  before I noticed he already had amends on me, next fight I pulled the mob off him in 3 of our frontal CAs.  We had to take both hate transfer and amends down then have him recast it on me for the hate to start transfering.My question is: If we use either ignorant bliss, Elude, or Surviellance.  Does the negative hate also get transfered?  A couple times I was grouping after a raid with an old ignorant bliss still up, and the tank never seems to hold agro.<p>Message Edited by Neribus on <span class="date_text">10-03-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:15 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I have a 70 of both characters (main - assassin) and I can cell you for a certainty what happens is aggro actually gets transferred back to you!  If the pally wants to put amends on you, let him.  Cancel your hate transfer and ask him to recast amends.Why shouldn't the pally put amends on another dps in the group?1.) Assassins, especially those that post on forums for help, generally are going to be top dps in the group.  The DPS assassins put out start quick and generally are a steady dps.  This makes assassins ideal amends candidate.2.) Paladins have other specialty hate transfer skills, most especially 'sigil of heroism' (3m recast 20-30s group 30% transfer), that completely break with scout or wizard hate transfers stacked on top of amends.3.) If there's more complexity in the hate transferring all around or getting buffed, amends is more likely to break.  For example, if a troub or dirge or coercer is in the equation, bad things can happen quickly.  The less complex the equation is, the less likely it is to break.Hope that helps.</div><p>Message Edited by khufure on <span class=date_text>10-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:34 PM</span>

[khufure]

<div><blockquote><hr>Neribus wrote:<div></div><div></div>Yes, if you have both amends and hate transfer up neither work.  I put my hate transfer on my groups pally  before I noticed he already had amends on me, next fight I pulled the mob off him in 3 of our frontal CAs.  We had to take both hate transfer and amends down then have him recast it on me for the hate to start transfering.My question is: If we use either ignorant bliss, Elude, or Surviellance.  Does the negative hate also get transfered?  A couple times I was grouping after a raid with an old ignorant bliss still up, and the tank never seems to hold agro.<p>Message Edited by Neribus on <span class="date_text">10-03-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:15 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Tell your pally however you end up doing the hate that amends has to be cast last.  The order is really important.  Have him recast it if you aren't sure.</div>