Why do we self buff AGI not STR....

[TheRisingstorm]

<div></div>Mainly talking about the raiding assassin.<a href="message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194#M11194" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194#M11194</a><span class="edited"></span><div></div>Ok im worried about the planned new changes coming with the expansion, the stat caps being raised to 15*level+20.I can't be the only one to realise that us assassins mainly rely on our STR for damage and not the AGI buffs were given. Whats the closest we are goIng to get to that cap now - Compared to other classes that can self buff there main damage stat - like Swashy, and Wizzy .We are T1 DPS class but we are not going to be able to keep up if we could only top STR at 690 (most i have managed), and for example have seen swashy at 850ish. Before it didnt matter as we were both capped. Am I wrong in thinking that this looks bad!!I have never understood why our buff does AGI not STR.On a good note though, at least we get to use are 36sec dps buff, now dps/haste raised to 200% (still only 125% effectivness)/rant end <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Neribus]

<div></div><div></div>STR increases your damage per hit just like the DPS increase does, however unless we are given a self buff of a couple hundred STR a DPS increase of 66% (master1 villiany) is much better than a STR increase.  As it stands its around like 5 str per point of damage.  So one a 100 point hit, our self buff gives us a 166 point hit, while a STR buff would need to be 330 STR just to give us a 166 hit.Edit: I'm pretty sure the DPS increase helps our CAs also; so it affects decapitate. Which 66% of decap is crazy.<div></div><p><span class="date_text"></span><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Neribus on <span class=date_text>09-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:52 AM</span>

[SalBlu]

<DIV>I'm not too worried about it.  I'm still in the process of decking my Assassin out having switched mains (I was a Wizard before), but I am regularly between 450 and 550 STR in raids, and that is basing my own self made STR score of 390.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree though that i'd rather enjoy a STR buff rather than an AGI buff.</DIV>

[K'aldar]

<blockquote><hr>Neribus wrote:<div></div><div></div>STR increases your damage per hit just like the DPS increase does, however unless we are given a self buff of a couple hundred STR a DPS increase of 66% (master1 villiany) is much better than a STR increase.  As it stands its around like 5 str per point of damage.  So one a 100 point hit, our self buff gives us a 166 point hit, while a STR buff would need to be 330 STR just to give us a 166 hit.Edit: I'm pretty sure the DPS increase helps our CAs also; so it affects decapitate. Which 66% of decap is crazy.<div></div><p><span class="date_text"></span><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Neribus on <span class="date_text">09-29-2006</span> <span class="time_text">08:52 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>DPS mod only affects auto attack damage.. our CAs are only affected by str.<div></div>

[Neribus]

Ah, I had exacting stuck in my head for some reason.I also would like STR self buff instead of AGI, however I don't think the devs are ever going to change it, so I'm not worrying about it.  Some dev thats in charge of assassins has this crazy notion that we need agi over anything else. I don't know why, but the signs are in the relic armor with (full set) 143 agi verus 121 str and only 99 STA and 15 INT.  Plus, you know the second our self buff gets changed into a STR buff people will start crying nerf left and right.<div></div>

[LoreLady]

I wish I had a 66% haste mod with these new changes comming out <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[lordblackhea]

<DIV>the talk about this new combat changes going into play with EoF . as i see is Dev doing a swiff kick in the nuts to the hard core raiders that play to make the casual players happy . good job Dev this may make or brake EQ2 the way i see it . i am a raider and i'm so not liken this at all . dev want to make things better how about melee and nukes do less argo so tanks can hold argo better that would be smart but we talking about dev here . :smileymad:</DIV>

[SalBlu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lordblackheart wrote:<BR> <DIV>the talk about this new combat changes going into play with EoF . as i see is Dev doing a swiff kick in the nuts to the hard core raiders that play to make the casual players happy . good job Dev this may make or brake EQ2 the way i see it . i am a raider and i'm so not liken this at all . dev want to make things better how about melee and nukes do less argo so tanks can hold argo better that would be smart but we talking about dev here . :smileymad:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I wonder if you read the update. 

[Neribus]

<div><blockquote><hr>SalBluee wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> lordblackheart wrote: <div>the talk about this new combat changes going into play with EoF . as i see is Dev doing a swiff kick in the nuts to the hard core raiders that play to make the casual players happy . good job Dev this may make or brake EQ2 the way i see it . i am a raider and i'm so not liken this at all . dev want to make things better how about melee and nukes do less argo so tanks can hold argo better that would be smart but we talking about dev here . :smileymad:</div> <hr> </blockquote>I wonder if you read the update. <hr></blockquote>I don't see how he could have if he's saying that... unless he's being very sarcastic............ very sarcastic</div>

[Fahrenheig]

Im not worried about the stat cap...its just like going into a lvl increase expansion just without the level.  The gear from EoF will surely be far superior to the current gear...by the time us raiders are geared out all our main stats will all be maxed just like they are now.  This is of course hoping SOE doesnt completely screw the itemization which I have admittedly little faith in.<div></div>

[Neribus]

<div></div>While the items are goign to be better, I don't think they are going to be THAT much better.  The change in stat cap is <span>[ 7 * Level + 20 ] to [ 15 * level + 20 ].  At 70 the stat cap will go from 510 to 1070.  To max out exactly the same way we are now, take into consideration one stat (STR) off a set of nemesis which is 25+26+26+22+20+24+18 for 161 points of STR.  So just armor alone gives us 161/510 or 31.5% of our max STR.  In the expansion to get 31.5% of our max STR would be 337 STR (1070*.315).  So the new armor would have to have double the stats compared to current armor to be as effective.  This would have every piece of armor have roughly 48 points of each stat (337 / 7, 7 pieces of armor).  Which I highly doubt will happen.  Unless the armor set bonuses will be that extreme, making the new armor have 35 points of each stat , then the set bonus have 92 (337 -(35*7)) extra points of each stat, which I also don't see happening.Edit: With the new tradeskills trans-somethingorother and tinkering, what I think will have is that we'll have the choice of either adding procs to our armor or adding stats</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Neribus on <span class=date_text>10-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:28 AM</span>

[Hadanelith]

<P>The new caps are actually going to help us, believe it or not.</P> <P>If you look closely at your Combat Arts, as things stand now you receive ZERO benefit past 520 STR. For me, [Decapitate Master I] reads the same 15,337 (or something like that) Damage at 690 STR as it does at 520 STR. (My static STR is 502 btw, so the addition of the Cloak and 2nd Ear slots would have by far and away capped me.)</P> <P>This DOES mean, however, that all classes will become marginally (or perhaps even greatly X_X) less effective at soloing because we'll be so far away from Strength and Agility caps. I can currently run around in my soloing gear (more mitigation and avoidance for slightly less strength) and still be less than 40 points away from the 520 cap... indeed, as mentioned above, with two new equipment slots I could easily breach that cap even while in my defensive gear. Now, however, unless all EOF items have between 30 and 50 points to stats, PLUS whatever benefits may be had from Set Items, you're never going to be anywhere near the cap without Group Stat Buffs.</P> <P>Part of this change is purposefuly aimed at making Group Stat Buffs worthwhile again. Any well-equipped Raiding Assassin or Ranger can have max STR and AGI static under the current setup, which means one less concentration slot a healer in their group has to use on a stat-buff, and one more they can allocate to (for example) their +Power buff. Now when you consider Berserker, Brigand, Bruiser, Monk, and Swashbuckler, ALL of which can buff at least one (and often two) of their own stats by NO less than 70 points, it becomes quite clear how useless stat buffs currently are in comparison to DPS and Haste.</P> <P>Mind you, since the DPS and Haste caps are also increasing now, with the cap being 200% (but the effective benefit only 125% faster Attack Speed / Damage as per developer post), this may still be the case. But if the "break-even" point for stats is now at 750 with a true max of 1070, then you have to acquire almost 50% more stats than the current hardcap to reach the new even-point... and literally double as many points to reach the TRUE cap. It will be very interesting to see how this affects damage and raid DPS.</P> <P>-Hadanelith Raswrolski, 70 Assassin of Kithicor</P> <P>Message Edited by Hadanelith on <SPAN class=date_text>10-04-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:00 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Hadanelith on <span class=date_text>10-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 PM</span>

[Graton]

200% will actually equal 125% i believe.<div></div>

[Hadanelith]

<DIV>You're right, Graton. Thanks for the fix.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Post is here for anyone interested btw: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=grph&message.id=30674" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=grph&message.id=30674</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Hadanelith Raswrolski, 70 Assassin of Kithicor</DIV>

[swiftne]

<P><FONT color=#6633ff size=4>Ya know, you people seem to all be talking about the stat change effecting solo players more than raids..... have you never had stat buffs? lol (sarcasm) You've got to remember that with the better items + your raid buffs/group buffs you are still going to get your stats plenty high. And I do agree that I would love a str buff more than the agi, BUT for lower levels the agi is nice to increase your power and whatnot. 'cause I dunno about you but since lower levels you pretty much chain pull (everyone has too good of gear to not do so) Your power will end up draining quite a bit.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff size=4></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff size=4>P.S. Swashbucklers NEED their str buff lol their CA's are pitiful compared to ours.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff size=4></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff size=4>And oh ya in pvp there's nothing worse than having to auto attack for a while 'cause ur power is gone and all you need is that one nifty stealthed attack.</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by swiftness on <span class=date_text>10-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:20 PM</span>

[Aienaa]

<DIV> <P>If you look closely at your Combat Arts, as things stand now you receive ZERO benefit past 520 STR. For me, [Decapitate Master I] reads the same 15,337 (or something like that) Damage at 690 STR as it does at 520 STR. (My static STR is 502 btw, so the addition of the Cloak and 2nd Ear slots would have by far and away capped me.)</P> <HR> <P>Hadan you seem to be forgetting 1 thing....  Chasing the stat cap, which to this day still has not been removed...  The way this works is your damage is based on how close you are to the stat cap...  Damage is capped at 100% of the stat cap and the further away from the stat cap you are, the lower your damage will be...  This is the same problem that plagues people as they level...  Each time you level without adding to your stats, you imidiatly become further away from the stat cap resulting in lower damage, avoidance, resists and so on</P> <P> </P> <P>What this means that if your decap is reading 15,337 at 520+ strength now, that it will only read that again once your strength is at 1,070+ under the new stat caps...  Even with 800 str, you will only be at 80% of the stat cap and your decap damage will drop, as well as every other CA and auto attack damage</P> <P>Same thing goes for your avoidance....  at 520+ your capped on AGI...  your at 100% of the possible cap....  But once the cap is raised to 1,070 your no longer at 100% of the possible cap and your avoidance will drop...  Let's say your at 600 Agi...  that is only roughly 60% of the new stat cap...   Even if you have 800 Agi with with group buffs, your still only at 80% of the stat cap and your avoidance will be worse than it was before when the cap was 520...</P> <P>One thing that alot of people are not looking at is that currently while we can reach the Str cap, people have been swapping out gear to raise other stats such as Intelligence to increase poison and proc damage...  Now with the increased caps, we will once again be focusing on Strength to regain our melee damage and at the same time letting Int fall further from the cap resulting in lower poison and proc damage</P> <P>No matter how you look at it, as long as they have the whole chasing the stat cap in the game, the increase in stat caps is going to make everyone weaker than they are right now, even with group / raid buffs unless you can reach the new 1,070 stat cap...</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin  / Parody - 70 Troubador</P></DIV>

[Outerspace]

So when does the diminished return begin then? Since with haste and DPS they simply shifted the cap to 200% and gave you a diminished return if you went above the "break even point" of 100%. As far as I was aware that's how it worked for stats and mitigation too.I still don't think we will get hurt by it. In a raid situation I'm usually miles over the STR and AGI cap and when the revamp comes around you will gain benefit from being as high as possible instead of having wasted buffs. For example our tank in raids often has over 1000 STR. About 500 of this is wasted but after the revamp it will actually make some difference. I'm sure other classes have similar wasted abilities like Deadly Focus, which currently does nothing for me as I sit on 92% DPS mod for almost all of every fight with an acrylia STR ring. I think SOE wanted to make some of these spells useful, and by lifting the cap they sort of have, although it's not quite as effective as it should be.There will be a point where it's not worth putting any more stats on, for example when you get to about 650-700 STR it'll probably be better value to buff INT if you aren't near that level with it.<div></div>