Weapons + crit dmg bonus calculation...

[Skratttt]

I was running some #'s to see which weapon is the one with best dps potential....i read on other post on equip that Dirk of negativity/grinning dirk of horror are best combo....so ran a small calculation...which i dont know if its correct..but i came up with diferent numbersAs we know from many posts wide ratio spread weapons bennefit a lot more from crits than small ratio spread weapons...so using this formula(ratio crit bonus% * crit chance%) = Actual crit dmg % bonus....then i took that % and added it to the dmg rating....and made a small table, if my calc is wrong just note  the proper formula so we can modify <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />the Crit %'s are vaguely based on uswith just STR crits maxed, next adds in MoAI and 1% random, next level is crits+mark+crit potion, next one also ads DKTM...final level is more on a what if seting <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />....for TL calculation i say 3,4th collums are the one most people acheive douring a raidWEAPON                        RATING            RATIO            GAIN PER 1% CRIT        ADJUSTED WEAPON RATING WITH CRITS                                                                                                                                    @14%    @17%    @20%    @27%    @31%Grinning Dirk of Horror     59.8                    1/9                    0.88%                                67.1        68.7        70.3        74.0        76.1<hr size="2" width="100%">Oblivions Edge                 60.2                    1/3                    0.58%                                65.0        66.1        67.1        69.6       71.0    <hr size="2" width="100%">Qeynos Cutlass               60.6                    1/3                    0.58%                                65.5        66.5        67.6        70.0        71.4<hr size="2" width="100%">Absolution                        62.0                    1/3                    0.58%                                67.0        68.1        69.1        71.7        73.1            <hr size="2" width="100%">Dirk of Negativity              63.7                    1/6                    0.78%                                70.6        72.1        73.6        77.1        79.1<hr size="2" width="100%">Dirk of nightfall                 64.8                    1/4                    0.68%                                70.9        72.2        73.6        76.6        78.9            <hr size="2" width="100%">Ls of Perf.                        64.8                    1/2.3                0.48%                                  69.1       70.0        71.0        73.1        74.4<hr size="2" width="100%">Vyems fang                      65.8                    1/3                    0.58%                                71.1       72.2         73.4        76.1        77.6                <div></div>

[MystaSkrat]

But your hypothetical Damage ratings (while nice :smileytongue: ) don't mean much.  We already know that Dirk of Horror crits for far higher than any other dual wield, that gives it an edge over other ones when it comes to crits.  Then let's factor in how much more you're going to proc poison (or player procs) with Horror in primary over any other dual wield.  Yes, it should equal out with a faster DW because of the number of swings, but it doesn't.  If damage rating <EM>really</EM> meant something, I'd use Vyemm's Fang and Dirk of Nightfall for sure.

[Spite]

<P>Good start but in order to better solidify the image we should do a proc % for each in the same manner.</P> <P>I will try to start it using the standard (Delay/3) x 25% (poison)</P> <P>Item                                    Delay                                    Actualy %                                               Notes</P> <HR> <P>GDoH                                  4                                                33.3%                                                </P> <P>OE                                      1.6                                             13.3%                                                 </P> <P>QC                                      1.6                                            13. 3%                                                 Has self proc</P> <P>DoNeg                                 1.9                                            15. 8%                                                </P> <P>DoNig                                  1.6                                            13. 3%                                                 Has self proc</P> <P>LSoP                                   1.7                                            14. 1%                                                 Has self proc</P> <P>VF                                       1.6                                             13.3%</P> <P></P> <HR> <P> Couple of things to note on these:</P> <P>Considerig that each weapon should proc the same number of times per minutes within a few hundreths (about 5 times no haste and 10 times 100%), these numbers should be meaningless. But parses favor the higher % weapons.</P> <P>I used a 3 sec delay standard and i have seen some argure on a 2.5 standard. At 2.5 GDOH is 40%, the 1.6 sec delay weapons are 16%, DoNeg is 19% and LSoP is 17%.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also looking at the numbers the Dirk of Negitivity and the DIrk of Nightfall combo might be the way to go. But once again parses have led to other findings. This is probably due to the starting DR of the weapons being ascew.</P> <P>EDITED: Had proc on Dirk of Neg which is clearly wrong.</P> <P>Message Edited by FiftyK on <SPAN class=date_text>08-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:11 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by FiftyK on <SPAN class=date_text>08-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:15 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by FiftyK on <span class=date_text>08-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:31 PM</span>

[MystaSkrat]

Dirk of Negativity doesn't have a proc.  And Grinning Dirk > any other dual wield.  You're free to think differently though.

[Spite]

<DIV>I agree the GDoH is the best DW out there, I was just posting raw data and specifically said the data wasnt supported by the parses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Skratttt]

<div></div><hr size="2" width="100%">Actualy Scratch...this is why im doing this.....im prety sure the ratio contribuites to the dmg diferential....BUT that said im sure also delay has something to do with it being a GREAT (if not the best) weapon out there for us...the reason i put this forumla out is so we can find out how much the delay has to do with this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />BTW ive noticed on some of the high end 1h either they have an insane ratio <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> which is good or like right had of the preistes the ratio absolutely SUCKSEDIT: i think the guide so far works as an offhand guide (since offhands dont proc anything unless its built in to the weapon)...so yeah we need to take into act part 1 (crit benefits) and part 2 (proc benefits)<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div><p>Message Edited by Skratttt on <span class=date_text>08-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:13 PM</span>

[Skratttt]

BTW i should add wurmy there too...soon enough <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[snowbrdr093]

<div></div>The main flaw i see with the calculations is the fact that it is all done in damage rating, which makes it difficult to actually gauge the effectiveness of the weapon. I was bored and decided to figure out the dps of a GDH with max str 0dps and 0haste, which I believe is a more accurate comparison.The range on GDH for me was 72-646 @ 519strThe average non crit hit would be for about 359, ((72+646)/2)The harder part is considering the average crit, which I found to be 657.6<blockquote>To find the average crit i took the number of possible hits that would crit for minimum damage(426) and averaged that with all the possible crits that would exceed that minimum crit amount(14<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.The average crit amount that I came up with was the sum of all possible crit hits divided by the number of possible amounts the weapon could hit for.</blockquote>After figuring those out I took the average non crit(359) and added that to the average crit(657.6) multiplied by the chance to crit(x), all over the delay(4):<blockquote>(359+ x(657.6))/4 = auto attack dpsyou can sub in for x whatever the crit chance is, ex: 14% = .14; 17% = .17; etc.</blockquote>In the end I found the dps with GDH to be somewhere around 113 dps with 14% crits.I would do other weapons for comparison, but i really dont have any other dual wields to compare it to. The math to complete this is very simple though, so if anyone feels like doing it themself this post took longer to make than the actual math took to calculate. I woudl also greatly appreciate it if someone who has some of the other dual wields mentioned in this thready could do the same thing as what i did for the GDH for comparative purposes, but if you dont then if you could send me(Befallen.Rhaz) a tell with the range on the weapons with max str 0 dps and 0 haste using /weaponstats it would be appreciated. Lastly, if anything in my math seems really off or if the calculation just doesn't make sense feel free to point it out, it's 7am here and i still haven't slept so errors wouldnt suprise me at all <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote></blockquote><div></div>

[Skratttt]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Actualy dmg rating does reflect the actual weapon dmg Pre crits/pre mob debuffThis you can test for yourself by geting yourself to str cap/dps cap and typing /weaponstats ..you will see your base dmg * dps =base dmg* (str/510*3) =actual dmgBut then again there is more to it like you say<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>

[juz]

<P>Hey guys, How does the Wurmslayer compare to these DW weapons?</P> <P>I see it's only a 1/3 ratio but the slow delay plus self proc means something no? Where would you rate it? #2? #3?</P> <P>I'm guessing the most important thing would be how high can you get crit % so that you can take advantage of ratio.</P> <P>So maybe (totally invented numbers here) uder 15% crit WS would be better than DoNeg, over that Dirk would be better?</P><p>Message Edited by juzamaku on <span class=date_text>08-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:37 AM</span>

[Skratttt]

<div></div>Well cause Delay DOES play a factor cause of our moments in stealth, our long cast AEs For example saying you got a 1 delay weapon at 100% haste you atack every .5 seconds...but being we use masked atack +punchblade every 10 seconds....which have a .5 sec cast + .5 recovery +x lag factor (0 in perfect conditions) you basically loose 2 seconds of auto atack with this weapon <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />...which is 4 atacks... just for visualization purposesAVG weapon auto atack dmg over 10 seconds (without MA+PB)10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 = 200 dmgSame weapon auto atack with MA+PB10 PB---  MA---10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 =160 dmg = 20% loss!!!Now a weapon that has 4 delay with same rating and same haste (2 delay at 100% haste)40 PB--- MA--- 40                40                  40                   40 =200 dmg  (this is one of the reasons GDoH is good)    Been reading on the swashy boards about cast+ recovery if auto atack is firing off in recovery time...no decision yet...but if it does not weapons with delays faster than 2 loose dmg douring these "dead periods" when u spam Combat artsWurmy should be one of the better weapons out there*One note...parsing on gray mobs that are atacking u is a bad way to get accurate #'s being that u will riptose(benefiting slow weaps) and ur crit chance goes throught the roof (benefiting large ratio weapons)<div></div><p>Message Edited by Skratttt on <span class=date_text>08-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:25 PM</span>

[juz]

<DIV>Is there a minimum delay on a weapon? Meaning, Will 100% haste affect a 1 sec delay weapon and bring it to .5? Or is 1 sec the minimum delay regardless of haste?</DIV>

[Griffona]

per a number of Dev posts, the delay will be .5 there is no "minimum cap"<div></div>

[Skratttt]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Yes i have tested this...at 100% haste Turadramins fang hits 2x per second...But the point is fast weapons do loose dps due to your stealth cycle (no auto atack between MA+PB)<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>