Any assasins here formerly a ranger?

[Pinfall1]

<DIV>Thinking of betraying and want to know what you thought of assassin compared to your ranger afterwards....  What you liked, what you didn't like etc etc...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV>

[Dragonsviperz]

<DIV>Ask Butcherblock.Mallard. He betrayed and is a raiding assassin in a good guild. I'm sure he'll give some feedback.</DIV>

[Sirlutt]

I betrayed my 60 Ranger who is now a 69 Assassin and I raid 4+ nights a week.I now have money.. YAY !.. and i do more damage..i feel effective again and i can actually solo effectively !.. thats not to say Rangers suck soloing, but its alot easier as an assassin.Master spells are cheaper and I get more dates now .. and good dates.. with girls who put out and everything .. but yeah..i am VERY happy with the change..its a different playstyle though .. if your into the whole "Ranged" part of the ranger then you'll be dissapointed with assassin.. we get up close and personal .. only 3 ranged abilities and 2 of those are rear/side based .. <div></div>

[Griffona]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote: only 3 ranged abilities and 2 of those are rear/side based .. <div></div><hr></blockquote>So  which don't you count?  Assailing blast or Contrived Weapon?you either ignore Assailing blast because its damage it pointlessly low, or you don't count Contrived Weapon because it can also be used at point blank range and doesn't require ammo....most assassins would ignore Assailing Blast....but with your ranger background I suspect you weren't counting Contrived Weapon</div><p>Message Edited by Griffonage on <span class=date_text>07-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:20 PM</span>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Griffonage wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote: only 3 ranged abilities and 2 of those are rear/side based .. <div></div><hr></blockquote>So  which don't you count?  Assailing blast or Contrived Weapon?you either ignore Assailing blast because its damage it pointlessly low, or you don't count Contrived Weapon because it can also be used at point blank range and doesn't require ammo....most assassins would ignore Assailing Blast....but with your ranger background I suspect you weren't counting Contrived Weapon</div><p>Message Edited by Griffonage on <span class="date_text">07-11-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:20 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Contrived because its point blank .. has simlar range to the burninator from that gnome though... contrived doesnt consume an arrow either.</div>

[QUACKMASTER]

<DIV>Personally i`m having more fun now than i ever did on my ranger. I guess the whole shoot arrows at stuff wasn't as fun as what i thought it was.  It all really depends on what type of playstyle you have.  but , here goes my list of pros and cons:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Pros:</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>1. Melee ca`s FTW! if you enjoy to melee the mob up close and personal the assassin comes with a full arsenal of DoTs, Medium damage stealth/flank attacks, and powerful High damage stealth attacks... not to mention the stifle, and root built in to a few of those attacks</DIV> <DIV>2. You gain a considerable dps mod that is permanent until canceled, as well as a short duration extra dps mod + pierce skill increase( this is like the rangers focus aim except you don't get the % crit increase)</DIV> <DIV>3.  arrows last!</DIV> <DIV>4.  You get to deal the highest melee hits in the game</DIV> <DIV>5.  you get an almost instant invs out of combat , which is really very handy</DIV> <DIV>6.  You can put buffs on people besides pathfinding!!!  heh.. well you get a poison proc that can be applied to non predator/rouge types.</DIV> <DIV>7.  Hate transfer really helps you MT hold nice aggro... especially for your everyday group instances and hunting</DIV> <DIV>8.  One of the most useful arts i found is the lvl 55 (i think its 55) art called concealment.  It allows you for a set duration to go into stealth after a successful hit, while lowering your hate ... great spell...if your fast enough you can get just about all your stealth attacks while that buff is running</DIV> <DIV>9.  For the most part masters seem cheaper, and in more quanity.  I`m not gonna say this is true for every server, but it certainly is on mine as well as the other servers i have alts on.</DIV> <DIV>10.  Lastly, if you get your combinations of attacks down so that your doing optimal dps there's very few that will be able to do as much damage as you.  It makes finding a group kill things  or a raid party more likely to pick you.</DIV> <DIV>11.  Omg ... i almost forgot .......... YOU GET A PET RAT!!!!!!! screw that hawk =P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Cons:</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Aggro! if your not careful you`ll explode... you have to know the limits of your damage and how well your MT can taunt.</DIV> <DIV>2.  AoE`s they`ll make ya explode too.  Can`t just sit back and plink arrows you have to build good resist and cycle through ranged attacks as your running in and out of those nasty buggers.</DIV> <DIV>3.  If your a Kera and your name is Tigurz everyone will make fun of you and call you a noob.</DIV> <DIV>4.  You lose any and all adept 3`s, masters, or any class specific gear like relic and your hoo`lahs hat.  It can be expensive to replace but you can put back all the money you`ll be saving on arrows =P</DIV> <DIV>5.  You have to move to Freeport ( gah that town is a pita..too many walls and buildings blocking the way)</DIV> <DIV>6.  Well, i`m getting a little off course here but my bias towards there not being any really big downfaults allows me to do so.  I enjoy the class its very fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hoped this helped a bit, and as Tig mention feel free to send me a tell in game....again i`m not the foremost expert on rangers and assassins but i consider myself very knowledgeable in how they work in grps and raids.</DIV>

[Dragonsviperz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> QUACKMASTER wrote:<BR> <DIV>Personally i`m having more fun now than i ever did on my ranger. I guess the whole shoot arrows at stuff wasn't as fun as what i thought it was.  It all really depends on what type of playstyle you have.  but , here goes my list of pros and cons:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Pros:</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U></U></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>1. Melee ca`s FTW! if you enjoy to melee the mob up close and personal the assassin comes with a full arsenal of DoTs, Medium damage stealth/flank attacks, and powerful High damage stealth attacks... not to mention the stifle, and root built in to a few of those attacks</DIV> <DIV>2. You gain a considerable dps mod that is permanent until canceled, as well as a short duration extra dps mod + pierce skill increase( this is like the rangers focus aim except you don't get the % crit increase)</DIV> <DIV>3.  arrows last!</DIV> <DIV>4.  You get to deal the highest melee hits in the game</DIV> <DIV>5.  you get an almost instant invs out of combat , which is really very handy</DIV> <DIV>6.  You can put buffs on people besides pathfinding!!!  heh.. well you get a poison proc that can be applied to non predator/rouge types.</DIV> <DIV>7.  Hate transfer really helps you MT hold nice aggro... especially for your everyday group instances and hunting</DIV> <DIV>8.  One of the most useful arts i found is the lvl 55 (i think its 55) art called concealment.  It allows you for a set duration to go into stealth after a successful hit, while lowering your hate ... great spell...if your fast enough you can get just about all your stealth attacks while that buff is running</DIV> <DIV>9.  For the most part masters seem cheaper, and in more quanity.  I`m not gonna say this is true for every server, but it certainly is on mine as well as the other servers i have alts on.</DIV> <DIV>10.  Lastly, if you get your combinations of attacks down so that your doing optimal dps there's very few that will be able to do as much damage as you.  It makes finding a group kill things  or a raid party more likely to pick you.</DIV> <DIV>11.  Omg ... i almost forgot .......... YOU GET A PET RAT!!!!!!! screw that hawk =P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Cons:</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Aggro! if your not careful you`ll explode... you have to know the limits of your damage and how well your MT can taunt.</DIV> <DIV>2.  AoE`s they`ll make ya explode too.  Can`t just sit back and plink arrows you have to build good resist and cycle through ranged attacks as your running in and out of those nasty buggers.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>3.  If your a Kera and your name is Tigurz everyone will make fun of you and call you a noob.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV>4.  You lose any and all adept 3`s, masters, or any class specific gear like relic and your hoo`lahs hat.  It can be expensive to replace but you can put back all the money you`ll be saving on arrows =P</DIV> <DIV>5.  You have to move to Freeport ( gah that town is a pita..too many walls and buildings blocking the way)</DIV> <DIV>6.  Well, i`m getting a little off course here but my bias towards there not being any really big downfaults allows me to do so.  I enjoy the class its very fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hoped this helped a bit, and as Tig mention feel free to send me a tell in game....again i`m not the foremost expert on rangers and assassins but i consider myself very knowledgeable in how they work in grps and raids.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Harsh... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[Pinfall1]

<P>Thanks a ton guys, those are exactly the type of responses I was hoping for!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Going to give this a bit more thought but I think I may do it.</P>

[MystaSkrat]

Contrived is a 25M range, not exactly point blank, though you can use it at point blank.  And it usually does more damage than Assailing blast, which uses 2 arrows, yay.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Contrived because its point blank .. has simlar range to the burninator from that gnome though... contrived doesnt consume an arrow either.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Jeffmaster]

<P>whats good to being Brig compared to assassin is that I can manage my aggro better...and Masters are even cheaper than Assassins' .</P> <P>still love the assassin class though!</P>

[judged_one]

Contrived Weapon is best used, when you are running back in after the AOE or after you did your range CA. Since it has 25 meter-0meter range, you are not wasting time running in and out. And assiling blast imo is almost useless, while a regular bow melee can do as much damage. And procs are not what they use to be. I only use assblast only when I have to range extensively.

[Korb]

I'm partway through the process. I'm an exile atm and loving it! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jblaze2]

I'll tell you what I think.....I hate it. I lost all my Master's and adept 3's. Then on top of that I only have a handful of CA's now...i can't afford to buy everything I need....I dont know what I need...I have no idea how to use the CA's effectively...I'm running around like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...I hate it and i wish I never would have done it.<div></div>

[Korb]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jblaze2 wrote:<BR>I'll tell you what I think.....I hate it. I lost all my Master's and adept 3's. Then on top of that I only have a handful of CA's now...i can't afford to buy everything I need....I dont know what I need...I have no idea how to use the CA's effectively...I'm running around like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...I hate it and i wish I never would have done it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What level are you?  At 43 (my ranger) it shouldn't be too much trouble I think?

[Pinfall1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jblaze2 wrote:<BR>I'll tell you what I think.....I hate it. I lost all my Master's and adept 3's. Then on top of that I only have a handful of CA's now...i can't afford to buy everything I need....I dont know what I need...I have no idea how to use the CA's effectively...I'm running around like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...I hate it and i wish I never would have done it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow, I don't think you looked at the assasin class at all if you are that unhappy with it.  I know I at least looked at all the skills the assasin gets and did alot of reading before I even thought about changing to assasin (still havent done it yet, I may tomorrow).  I also made sure I can buy at least adept 1's to get me started.  Im only level 50 atm so there really isnt any skills that are "end game" yet and I have time to get those.  All classes that I have played so far are at least effective with adpet 1's and they arent very pricy.</P> <P> </P> <P>One thing you said makes me scratch my head tho, and maybe its just that you are very upset but, what do you mean about "Then on top of that I only have a handful of CA's now"??  Yes, an assasin has much less ranged CA's than a ranger but that is kinda the point isnt it?</P>

[Pinfall1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinfall1 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jblaze2 wrote:<BR>I'll tell you what I think.....I hate it. I lost all my Master's and adept 3's. Then on top of that I only have a handful of CA's now...i can't afford to buy everything I need....I dont know what I need...I have no idea how to use the CA's effectively...I'm running around like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...I hate it and i wish I never would have done it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow, I don't think you looked at the assasin class at all if you are that unhappy with it.  I know I at least looked at all the skills the assasin gets and did alot of reading before I even thought about changing to assasin (still havent done it yet, I may tomorrow).  I also made sure I can buy at least adept 1's to get me started.  Im only level 50 atm so there really isnt any skills that are "end game" yet and I have time to get those.  All classes that I have played so far are at least effective with adpet 1's and they arent very pricy.</P> <P> </P> <P>One thing you said makes me scratch my head tho, and maybe its just that you are very upset but, what do you mean about "Then on top of that I only have a handful of CA's now"??  Yes, an assasin has much less ranged CA's than a ranger but that is kinda the point isnt it?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Also, I'm pretty happy with all classes that I played Im just going broke very very fast playing a ranger.  I can't even begin to keep up with arrow cost.  I'm not like many other players in that I don't have a lot of time to play online so when I log in I am doing stuff with friends right away most of the time so I'm not just out foraging and summoning arrows while I do that.  Weekend morning are about the only time I am able to do that....  But I digress....

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jblaze2 wrote:I'll tell you what I think.....I hate it. I lost all my Master's and adept 3's. Then on top of that I only have a handful of CA's now...i can't afford to buy everything I need....I dont know what I need...I have no idea how to use the CA's effectively...I'm running around like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...I hate it and i wish I never would have done it.<div></div><hr></blockquote>oh come on.. why the hell would you betray and NOT realise you will lose those spells ?you need to rebuy your lvl 50+ spells and learn how to use them.. you'll find after you do that.. you will like the class..if not.. go back to being a money sink.</div>

[Pinfall1]

<P>Welp,</P> <P> </P> <P>I finished the betrayal quest and I am now an Assassin.  So far I like it alot I do basically the same damage most of the time and when the timers are up on the big hitters its really fun to take a big heroic mobs like down very very fast.</P> <P> </P> <P>The betrayal quest itself was alot of fun except for the dog part.. that was kinda dumb.  The other part of id I didnt like was without help I would not have been able to complete the faction part of it.  After a few times on the bounty quests they became heroic and charging at you without a chance to suprise them... something my ranger is not able to handle.  Thankfully a friend was on and helped me finish.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR>Thanks for all your help and information!</P>

[griffit]

Let us know how it goes,   I have been keeping my eye out and also reading up.My ranger has been fun so far however I find that to keep DPS up I spam range attacks then have to spend most of rest of fight meleeing while waiting for timer on ranged attacks.    Figure if I spend most of my time meleeing I might as well be an assassin.<div></div>

[Haavo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pinfall1 wrote:<div></div>Also, I'm pretty happy with all classes that I played Im just going broke very very fast playing a ranger.  I can't even begin to keep up with arrow cost.  I'm not like many other players in that I don't have a lot of time to play online so when I log in I am doing stuff with friends right away most of the time so I'm not just out foraging and summoning arrows while I do that.  Weekend morning are about the only time I am able to do that....  But I digress....<hr></blockquote>Run a macro on the summon arrows spell whenever you're not playing.</div>

[Esh]

<blockquote><hr>Jblaze2 schrieb:I'll tell you what I think.....I hate it. I lost all my Master's and adept 3's. Then on top of that I only have a handful of CA's now...i can't afford to buy everything I need....I dont know what I need...I have no idea how to use the CA's effectively...I'm running around like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...I hate it and i wish I never would have done it.<div></div><hr></blockquote>please betray back to qeynos. you are definitively a ranger.

[Pinfall1]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> griffiths wrote:<BR>Let us know how it goes,   I have been keeping my eye out and also reading up.<BR><BR>My ranger has been fun so far however I find that to keep DPS up I spam range attacks then have to spend most of rest of fight meleeing while waiting for timer on ranged attacks.    Figure if I spend most of my time meleeing I might as well be an assassin.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, nearly one week has gone by, I have adjusted well playing the assassin.  I'm having fun.  I dont have to buy arrows or macro to summon them.  I solo better since both ranger or assasin ends up in melee anyway.  I still can't take heroics solo but thats a lack of defense which is not really what scouts are about anyway.   Grouping is also alot of fun (which I do mostly anyway).  DPS wise, both classes are comparable except the ranger really needs to be in and out of melee and ranged to take full advantage of his DPS and the assassin jumps around and in and out of stealth very often do the same thing.  Both very active to acheive high dps.  One point though is much more difficult as an assassin though... agro.  If I unleash too early, i will get agro.  Everytime.  Even with my palidin putting his agro reducer on me and me putting the agro increaser on him.  I really have to be careful on big ^^^ heroics cause I get hurt bad and fast. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, every class has good points and bad points but I was really impressed with the betrayal quest as a whole.  I would advise anyone to do it with at least one character if for no other reason to check out the quest.  It was fun, difficult, involving and a decent story line.</DIV>

[Korb]

I finally finished the Betrayal quest last night. I read a thread about one of the quest that requires you to run in, get a key, and swap a sermon, whew that one made it so much easier!!! Anyways.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Got all my arranged and upgraded everythign to adept1 (everything was only app1 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). Can't wait to try it out this weekend, looks like it will take some getting used to!

[Sirlutt]

yep thats the quest i did over and over aswell.. was pretty easy.It does take a little getting used to.. and it'll take a week or so of playing alot with a parser running to work out the right order to use things based on damage, timers and such .. i think I have it worked out now though.  If i remember I will post my bars and give a rough run down of the order i "usually" run through my Ca's, and why.When your lvl 64, there is only one choice for Master II - Mark ... took me a few days to accept that, and i had to use a respec to fix it but it makes a LARGE part of our damage, and its great for soloing aswell.  I usually throw up 2 debuffs, then that then cycle my frontals, by the time I am through the frontals mark has hit and its gone from green to red in an instant.. lol<div></div>

[Korb]

Wow, no kidding. I tried it out over the weekend as was doing BAD! lol. I eventually gave up and went back to my necro, lol. I'll try it out again soon, have to learn the new way of playing. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[LuddhaBuddha]

Pin our aggro transfer causes the pallys not to work so if he has his on you dont use yours or put it on the healer(and hope they dont notice). I also put 8 points into placating strike which I use on raids which seems to keep aggro off pretty well but you will have to find a good rapier I suggest looking for the Gleaming Edge of Tanaan in Nizara until you get the chance to get Talonsreach that comes out of Deathtoll. Its also best to throw your hate reducers right before you put mark on something or use one of your Nukes.

[Sete Soujiro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinfall1 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> griffiths wrote:<BR>Let us know how it goes,   I have been keeping my eye out and also reading up.<BR><BR>My ranger has been fun so far however I find that to keep DPS up I spam range attacks then have to spend most of rest of fight meleeing while waiting for timer on ranged attacks.    Figure if I spend most of my time meleeing I might as well be an assassin.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, nearly one week has gone by, I have adjusted well playing the assassin.  I'm having fun.  I dont have to buy arrows or macro to summon them.  I solo better since both ranger or assasin ends up in melee anyway.  I still can't take heroics solo but thats a lack of defense which is not really what scouts are about anyway.   Grouping is also alot of fun (which I do mostly anyway).  DPS wise, both classes are comparable except the ranger really needs to be in and out of melee and ranged to take full advantage of his DPS and the assassin jumps around and in and out of stealth very often do the same thing.  Both very active to acheive high dps.  One point though is much more difficult as an assassin though... agro.  If I unleash too early, i will get agro.  Everytime.  Even with my palidin putting his agro reducer on me and me putting the agro increaser on him.  I really have to be careful on big ^^^ heroics cause I get hurt bad and fast. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, every class has good points and bad points but I was really impressed with the betrayal quest as a whole.  I would advise anyone to do it with at least one character if for no other reason to check out the quest.  It was fun, difficult, involving and a decent story line.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>From what i understand there is a bug where amends and your hate transfer will cancel each other out.

[MystaSkrat]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LuddhaBuddha wrote:<BR> Pin our aggro transfer causes the pallys not to work so if he has his on you dont use yours or put it on the healer(and hope they dont notice). I also put 8 points into placating strike which I use on raids which seems to keep aggro off pretty well but you will have to find a good rapier I suggest looking for the Gleaming Edge of Tanaan in Nizara until you get the chance to get Talonsreach that comes out of Deathtoll. Its also best to throw your hate reducers right before you put mark on something or use one of your Nukes.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It's obviously your choice in the end, and if you have agro issues, I guess it's the best choice for you, but going down the WIS line you're losing out on a <EM>lot</EM> of DPS. 

[LuddhaBuddha]

I didnt go all the way down Wis just went to Placating I did go all the way down Str and put 8 in the melee crit, basicly the way i see it is i can do more DPS if im not gettting aggro "dead men do not DPS". :smileywink:

[MystaSkrat]

<DIV>Haha like I said, your choice in the end.  Placating Strike and 8 in melee crits means you ignored your spell crits.  I know not everyone has the perfect raid/group setup to control all the agro you'd like, but trust me, with the right classes, I don't have to hardly ever use Elude or Surveillance, much less an AA threat reducer. :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Sirlutt]

i couldnt live without my spell crits. .i love seeing the big orange numbers all over the place !<div></div>

[Pinfall1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sete Soujiro wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinfall1 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> griffiths wrote:<BR>Let us know how it goes,   I have been keeping my eye out and also reading up.<BR><BR>My ranger has been fun so far however I find that to keep DPS up I spam range attacks then have to spend most of rest of fight meleeing while waiting for timer on ranged attacks.    Figure if I spend most of my time meleeing I might as well be an assassin.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, nearly one week has gone by, I have adjusted well playing the assassin.  I'm having fun.  I dont have to buy arrows or macro to summon them.  I solo better since both ranger or assasin ends up in melee anyway.  I still can't take heroics solo but thats a lack of defense which is not really what scouts are about anyway.   Grouping is also alot of fun (which I do mostly anyway).  DPS wise, both classes are comparable except the ranger really needs to be in and out of melee and ranged to take full advantage of his DPS and the assassin jumps around and in and out of stealth very often do the same thing.  Both very active to acheive high dps.  One point though is much more difficult as an assassin though... agro.  If I unleash too early, i will get agro.  Everytime.  Even with my palidin putting his agro reducer on me and me putting the agro increaser on him.  I really have to be careful on big ^^^ heroics cause I get hurt bad and fast. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, every class has good points and bad points but I was really impressed with the betrayal quest as a whole.  I would advise anyone to do it with at least one character if for no other reason to check out the quest.  It was fun, difficult, involving and a decent story line.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>From what i understand there is a bug where amends and your hate transfer will cancel each other out.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ahhh, that would explain somethings.  That's kinda silly, you would think they would stack.  Oh well, I will put it on the monk in my group instead, :smileyvery-happy: he has a hard enough time keeping mobs off him as well.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>My group consists of a templar, fury, monk, paladin and myself.  I'd love to get a shaman class or maybe necro to fill the last spot but weve done pretty well so far even without a full group.</P>

[whytakemine]

<div><blockquote><hr>MystaSkratch wrote:<div></div> <div>I don't have to hardly ever use Elude or Surveillance, much less an AA threat reducer. :smileyhappy:</div><hr></blockquote>You don't use surveilance to put you into stealth for a back attack?  Even when i don't have to worry about aggro, I'm still using surveilance almost every time it's up.  You also do more dps than I do, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something here. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Jounar]

<P>Ex-Ranger here. Having moved to the true path a long time ago I have never looked back. DPS wish I own my guilds rangers and I have to be uber slacking for them even to come close to the amount of damage I dish out to mobs <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>To the poster above who is having aggro problems have you got all your detaunts at adept3 or better? If you have your tank sucks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</P>

[MystaSkrat]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> whytakemine wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MystaSkratch wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't have to hardly ever use Elude or Surveillance, much less an AA threat reducer. :smileyhappy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You don't use surveilance to put you into stealth for a back attack?  Even when i don't have to worry about aggro, I'm still using surveilance almost every time it's up.  You also do more dps than I do, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something here. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Nah, *most* of the time, I can chain Eviscerate, Jugular, Cloaked, and Killing Blade with Concealment.  If you've seen my other post around here somewhere, you'd know I kind of shun Slaughtersault :smileyhappy:  Other than that, I chain cast Masked and Puncture when they're up, and that's all our stealth attacks (didn't count Decap cuz it's such a long timer).  Honestly, Surveillance is a long casting time compared to the near instant stealth of Masked or Concealment.  Not that I <EM>never</EM> use it, but it's a rare occasion.</P>

[Mabes]

<P>I too am considering betraying to assassin.  Loosing my spells won't hurt too much, I have a jeweler that can make them, and my ranger is only in the mid 50's so I wouldn't lose out too much (just a bunch of plat).  The only thing that worries me, though, is that they'll nerf assassins.  Being a ranger was really nice (and yes we we're overpowered), but then they nerfed us real bad.  Also it wouldn take some time to relearn the strategies and skills of assassins.</P> <P>So, I'm still on the fence, I think I will end up betraying, but am fearful of nerfs.</P>

[MystaSkrat]

Nerfed for what?  Doing T1 dps when we're a T1 dps class?  Besides, sometimes our Necro or Conjuror still beats my dps anyway!

[Pinfall1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mabes wrote:<BR> <P>I too am considering betraying to assassin.  Loosing my spells won't hurt too much, I have a jeweler that can make them, and my ranger is only in the mid 50's so I wouldn't lose out too much (just a bunch of plat).  The only thing that worries me, though, is that they'll nerf assassins.  Being a ranger was really nice (and yes we we're overpowered), but then they nerfed us real bad.  Also it wouldn take some time to relearn the strategies and skills of assassins.</P> <P>So, I'm still on the fence, I think I will end up betraying, but am fearful of nerfs.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Heh, spoken as a true ranger (Ive played rangers or a ranged class in AC1, EQ1, DAOC, SWG, AC2, DDO, EQ2, WOW, and AO... I understand nerfs hahaha) ... naw I dont think there is anything nerfable in the assassin line up.  When timers are up on the big hitters it can seem amazing but they are on such long timers and if you did chain them all together when timers on all of them are up you would definatly get agro and die fast.</P> <P>As far as relearning, I feel pretty comfortable with my assassin after one week of play.  Not to say I know all the tricks yet but well enough to solo, group and do my job pretty darn well. </P> <P> </P> <P>PS... I really never felt at a DPS disadvantage with my ranger I just couldnt keep up with the arrow cost.  I picked alchemy as a tradeskill and didnt feel like leveling up a woodworker to make arrows for myself so I wanted to try out assassin.   I still dont think my ranger was underpowered I just think the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] arrow cost is too much.</P>

[griffit]

Finished the betrayal quest, faction grind and citizenship quest today.   That is one hella large chunk of work.I am however loving my new Wood Elf Assassin.     I took him up to Tenebrous Tangle and tried him out on some mobs and it wasn't even funny how badly I was slaughtering them.     Though I will miss thorny trap when I am soloing dealing with groups mobs <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Graton]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>whytakemine wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>MystaSkratch wrote:<div></div> <div>I don't have to hardly ever use Elude or Surveillance, much less an AA threat reducer. :smileyhappy:</div><hr></blockquote>You don't use surveilance to put you into stealth for a back attack?  Even when i don't have to worry about aggro, I'm still using surveilance almost every time it's up.  You also do more dps than I do, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something here. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>if you are using your concealment chains you shouldn't have to use surveillance too often. surveillance has a long-ish casting time and it stops auto attack so it's best to use only when you have to. the only times i use surveillance are to thrown in an extra cloaked assault.i think the point skratch is making is that if you are in the correct group and your MT has the right classes you don't need elude or surveillance to avoid aggro. i only ever use them as emergency 'get it off me' times with mem wipe mobs. i largely ignore them. elude in fact i almost never cast.assassins going down the wis line are not maximizing what the class does</div><p>Message Edited by Graton on <span class=date_text>07-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:52 PM</span>

[Sirlutt]

i am the same.. i rarely use them .. i use surveil to do my first AE sometimes.. but conceilment and chaining what ever is up every chance i get.<div></div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:i am the same.. i rarely use them .. i use surveil to do my first AE sometimes.. but conceilment and chaining what ever is up every chance i get.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Wish I had some other way to go in stealth, I use (ranger version of masked attack), and (ranger version of puncture blade (the 10s 1kish stealthed hit) everytime they are up.. Its pretty annoying using a surviel ontop of a 3s cast time, or even a 5s cast time.</div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:i am the same.. i rarely use them .. i use surveil to do my first AE sometimes.. but conceilment and chaining what ever is up every chance i get.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Wish I had some other way to go in stealth, I use (ranger version of masked attack), and (ranger version of puncture blade (the 10s 1kish stealthed hit) everytime they are up.. Its pretty annoying using a surviel ontop of a 3s cast time, or even a 5s cast time.</div><hr></blockquote>we have 2 ways to stealth outside combat.. one of them is instant cast.we have 3 ways to enter stealth in combat (well 2.5) .. surveil .. a back attack that puts us in stealth and a skill called conceilment.  This lasts for 13s (i think) and puts the assassin back in stealth after each attack.  I hit that, then my regular back attack that puts me in stealth followed in quick succession by all my rear/stelath attacks... all the way up to decapitate if its up.  Its really nice to chain them all together like that.conceilment is on a medium timer, 2 mins I think (might be less) and so everytime it is up i chain what ever of my back attacks are up ..usually only 2 or 3 after the first use.  </div>

[MystaSkrat]

<P>Nah, Concealment is a 7 second duration and decreases hate gain by 40% (at M1 anyway) while it's active.  I really, <EM>really</EM> wish it would just remove our stealth/flanking requirements instead of dropping us into stealth after every hit.  It can lag a lot and  there's sometimes you might get only one CA off.  Better than nothing I suppose.</P> <P>Oh, and it's a 60 second recast on it too</P><p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class=date_text>07-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:11 PM</span>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>MystaSkratch wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Nah, Concealment is a 7 second duration and decreases hate gain by 40% (at M1 anyway) while it's active.  I really, <em>really</em> wish it would just remove our stealth/flanking requirements instead of dropping us into stealth after every hit.  It can lag a lot and  there's sometimes you might get only one CA off.  Better than nothing I suppose.</p> <p>Oh, and it's a 60 second recast on it too</p><p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class="date_text">07-27-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:11 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>cool.. thanks.. i wasnt able to look it up in game and havent memorized them yet.</div>

[LoreLady]

Rangers get the joy of two.. In assassin terms, asked attack and surviel <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.