Constant death in Labs

[dj_krztoff]

I've been part of a Labs raid two weeks in a row now, and I am BY FAR dying more often than anyone else in raid.  Even with non-named mobs using auto-attack, it looks like i get one-shotted by crushing damage.  I'm not in fabled gear yet, but I'm sporting full legendary and have never had problems in the past.  Is there some sort of attack that is affecting just me for some specific reason?  I realize that I haven't supplied a whole lot of info, but this is kicking my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and I can't see any rhyme or reason why.  My resists are lacking, however it's almost always crushing damage that does me in, so I'm not sure that matters at all.  Any advice is appreciated. TiA,Krz<div></div>

[BaruMonk]

Might be that you start fighting too early, before your tank establishes enough aggro?

[dj_krztoff]

<div></div>I thought so too, so I started doing a 15-count before attacking.  Same results.  Hell, I even pulled aggro once just by self-buffing.  EDIT: when i say "pulled aggro" above, it is just an assumption ... I'm still not sure (or convinced) that I did pull aggro.<div></div><p>Message Edited by dj_krztoff on <span class=date_text>07-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 PM</span>

[Bi]

would help if you post a list of what is killing you, I usually have damage to self, and damage inflicted by self in separate windows so i know what is hitting me (and therefore what to buff to)I would hazard a guess that you are buffing to dps, rather than buffing to mit and sta. Maybe if you are dying a lot, losing some dps wouldnt hit your wallet so hard.<div></div>

[Skratttt]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Yup ae is Killing u.....drakes have nasty frontal and a 360 ae too...mobs use Combat art AE's too that can be devastating if your miti sucksBest advice?? keep ur mitigation at 3000 and u wont get 1 shoted...Chain FTW<div></div>

[Ahlspiess]

<P>Sounds like the drakes. I noticed I don't get hit if I stand right on thier tail. Also the thermuges (Sp) have a nasty elemental ae.</P> <P>If you are pulling aggro then your tank needs more aggro increasers in Group 1. Recommend 2 aggro increasers in group 1. ie dirge and coercer.  </P> <P>I  also recommend you time the ae if it is a problem. ACT is a great parser to use for this purpose. </P> <P>Edit - Rereading your post. You really need a parser to see what is dealing damage to you & how often in order to ascertain how to prevent it. With it you can also see what skills you use do the most damage and optimize your use of them.</P> <P>Ahlspiess 70 Assassin 70 Armorer</P> <P>Hitsugaya 70 Warden 39 Alchemist</P><p>Message Edited by Ahlspiess on <span class=date_text>07-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:06 AM</span>

[whytakemine]

Most trash mobs come in groups of two - are you sure you're not getting hit by the frontal aoe of either?  I have pretty crappy mit, but I don't get one-shotted by any of the trash unless I'm standing in the arc of the frontal aoe.  I also use /assist and target the mob directly.  That way you can tell immediately if you pull aggro (the mobs target will disappear because he's targeting YOU).  With our hate transfer and two deaggro spells, it's not often I find a tank that can't keep aggro on him and I never wait 15 seconds.  If you're pulling aggro, you should use your detaunts more. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Named are a different story.  They almost all have AoE's you need to buff resists for.  Also, some of the drakes have a frontal AoE that will hit you if you're just behind their head.  That's my default position for drakes, in case they have tail lash, but in Labs it will get you killed.  Sit back a little further.  That AoE is mental though, not crushing.<div></div>

[dj_krztoff]

Going back in now and I have ACT going.  Will give more information soon <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[alshell]

The AoE of the drakes is heat, gear up for heat resist and you won`t die so much. I go in with heat mit at least 4.5k, and , although i get hurt a lot, I don`t die. This could be your problem, also heat resist potions (even if they are t5 ones) help a lot.

[Aanak]

<P>Well, a few things that I can think of:</P> <P>More hitpoints. You need to be able to survive AE's better. Pushing STA and HP up at the expense of AGI then STR seems to be a good idea. What is your unbuffed HPs (and sta) at now?</P> <P>You should not be pulling agro--and what I think I'm reading is that you are taking Crushing AE damage that's pretty much 1 hitting you-not that you're grabbing agro. If I'm mistaken and you *are* grabbing agro though, it may not be entirely your fault. If the raid leaders do not set the MT/MA groups properly, the MT will not be able to hold agro off of strong DPS. A dirge and an Assassin transferring agro to the MT goes an awful long way in assuring that the MT holds agro against the DPS barrage of the raid (not just Assassins, but mages and other scouts too). Also, having a Troub in the scout group to reduce agro can help greatly as well... so, if you're grabbing agro every fight, it may not be totally your fault.</P> <P>Potions. I carry Grandmaster Regen potions to raids. Get Defilers to get you one of those heal orbs (forget the name). Between the two, you can heal yourself for over 1000 hp's rapidly. I've found that being able to replenish a bit of hitpoints while the group healer is otherwise busy with MT or other duties has saved my butt more than once.</P> <P>There are also constitution potions that, for 15 minutes raises Health by 373--useful for tough fights if your hp's are just not what you want them to be... Also, Fortitude (STR) potions are great for bringing STR back up when you sacrifice STR gear for HP/STA gear.</P> <P>Find the balance that maximizes your HPs while being able (in group) to stay max or close to max STR. I think that's important. I know that when I started looking at HP's I was about 4700 hps. Now, self buffed (no potions) I'm at about 5650 and it makes a HUGE difference in survivability on raids.</P> <P>Finally, even with maximizing these things, expect to die more than others. Tanks have extreme hitpoints and mitigation, mages are working from range. But it can be minimized with jousting, proper group make up, and a higher hitpoint gear setup.</P> <P>Hope this was helpful.</P> <P>Nihyn - Guk</P> <P> </P>

[Graton]

<div><blockquote><hr>alshell wrote:<div></div>The AoE of the drakes is heat, gear up for heat resist and you won`t die so much. I go in with heat mit at least 4.5k, and , although i get hurt a lot, I don`t die. This could be your problem, also heat resist potions (even if they are t5 ones) help a lot.<hr></blockquote>their ae is frontal, you shouldn't be getting hit by it. your tank should be turning it immediately.</div>

[pczry]

didn't read most the posting, but i recommend you get more items with HP on it.<div></div>

[Kokus]

<DIV>The drakes can use "slaughter" and for some messed up reason it can, and does hit people behind it.  When I was getting killed in labs it was usually from that.</DIV> <DIV>More mitigation, more hit points.</DIV>

[dj_krztoff]

I think you might have hit the nail on the head here, Aanak.  Last night I only died once, and it was a cold AoE ... no surprise there.  I was far more mindful of position and made sure that I was standing ON THE TAIL of the mobs, and was mindful of the other mobs' position in the encounter to ensure I didn't get hit by their frontal AoE.  I'm at work and don't have the exact numbers, but I remember that my MIT was at 3150.  I think that the group makeup had a lot to do with things since last nights raid was organized by a different RL and everyone seemed to be far more effective with fewer people (and there was a dirge in the MT group this time).I'm starting to see for myself why there are so many threads about our survivability in raids though ... we definately have it rough in this department.  This $h17 is expensive!<div></div>

[MystaSkrat]

<DIV>If you think surviving in raids now is hard, you must not remember t5 or t6.  Wrath of Fury especially.  7K AoEs for everyone!  I used to have traits specced to power regen, but I've since changed them to +max HP.  Having 6400+ hp solo helps a lot to survive AoEs when you're raiding.</DIV>

[Dragonsviperz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MystaSkratch wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you think surviving in raids now is hard, you must not remember t5 or t6.  Wrath of Fury especially.  7K AoEs for everyone!  I used to have traits specced to power regen, but I've since changed them to +max HP.  Having 6400+ hp solo helps a lot to survive AoEs when you're raiding.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>6.2Hp self buffed. HP helps for survival during raids.</P> <P>Don't hate on WoF! I loved that one shotting AE.</P>

[Graton]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dragonsviperz wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> MystaSkratch wrote: <div></div> <div>If you think surviving in raids now is hard, you must not remember t5 or t6.  Wrath of Fury especially.  7K AoEs for everyone!  I used to have traits specced to power regen, but I've since changed them to +max HP.  Having 6400+ hp solo helps a lot to survive AoEs when you're raiding.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>6.2Hp self buffed. HP helps for survival during raids.</p> <p>Don't hate on WoF! I loved that one shotting AE.</p><hr></blockquote>one shotting is still certainly better than getting dotted when you have an inattentive healer and die over the course of 3 ticks, man i LOVE that stuff.</div>

[Kokus]

<DIV>Which is why I carry my own cure potions! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Skratttt]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Yeah thats why Crush mitigation is Needed VS stupid drakes lol........A crushing slaughter crit really sucks if your miti is lower than 3kAlso several nonamed droags have slash ae's You should never get hit by fire ae from drakes unless A) you or someone pulls aggro that is not suposed to ....... or B) u arent waiting for tank to position mob correctly<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>

[judged_one]

Drake - slaughersault - melee based aoe up to 5k+Also the Thumathager(sp?) Heat aoe 2k with 6k heat resistJust make sure your hp is above 6k, 3.5k mit+ 6k heat and you will survive all the aoe(except 2 named) in that zone.If you are starting out, a good thing to do are claymore quests, they give some real nice mit-based items.(Belt, earring, shoulder, legging and a ring)Otherwise you should be getting some relic and nemisis stuff that are pretty good in Lab.Good luck : )PS tell em healer to heal you.<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class=date_text>07-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:07 AM</span>

[Stormhawk]

<div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:Also the Thumathager(sp?) Heat aoe 2k with 6k heat resist<hr></blockquote>Pretty sure that one is cold, it is called Frost Storm I think.  I know it has a DoT component so having cure potions handy is a good idea.  I resist it all the time with 4k cold.Slaughter is the worst because the hitbox on drakes is tiny so you pretty much have to stand on top of them to do auto-attack.  Behind that is the AE from the Champions.  It gets really bad after you get past Uncaged and you have to fight 2 of them at a time.  If you don't have someone with a recast debuff on them, they will sometimes fire off at the same time and kill everyone in melee range with weak mitigation.</div>

[Graton]

<div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:Drake - slaughersault - melee based aoe up to 5k+Also the Thumathager(sp?) Heat aoe 2k with 6k heat resistJust make sure your hp is above 6k, 3.5k mit+ 6k heat and you will survive all the aoe(except 2 named) in that zone.If you are starting out, a good thing to do are claymore quests, they give some real nice mit-based items.(Belt, earring, shoulder, legging and a ring)Otherwise you should be getting some relic and nemisis stuff that are pretty good in Lab.Good luck : )PS tell em healer to heal you.<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">07-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">08:07 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>thaumaturge most definately have a cold ae , not a heat. if you are above 5k resist on cold it's not much to worry about.</div>