Scout Damage unbalanced?

[Zodi]

<div>First let me begin with sayign this:</div><div> </div><div>I do not play an scout I play a fighter as my main.</div><div> </div><div>Here is something I dont understand from scouts. It seems that the scout damage is very unbalance with rangers doign the most damage from the safest distance?</div><div>Am I looking things from the wrong perspective? is there anything that i am missing here? Do rangers do not get any other usefull skill that their damage have to be boosted way above the other scouts.</div><div> </div><div>For everyones information I placed this post on the assassin forums, so i dont get burn out with people thinking i am trying to get the rangers nerfed. I actually benefitiate from their damage, but I want to know why such noticeable diference</div><div> </div><div>please correct me if i am wrong</div><div> </div><div>thank you</div>

[Demonskill]

<div>maybe 1 of the dev is playing ranger but not assassin</div><div> </div><div>Yup this game's class balancing is a joke, i'd thought that they will do a great job on class balancing when they announce EQ2 aback in the release time, now they just dont' care and say "oh class balance is never gonna happen, since 1 class boost will affect other class' balance etc etc.... "</div>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div>The reason rangers do so much damage is based solely on the proc rate of things off of a longbow.  Is it intentional?  Anyone's guess.  It's like this, if all the procs on a ranger goes off on one bow shot (they don't all go off everytime, but they go off very often), you'd have something like this: 1000 damage from the arrow, 500+ damage from poison, 250 damage from a weapon proc (we'll say ancient venom), any number of procs from groupmates, 400 from quick shot (offensive stance), then quick shot can also proc poison, the weapon proc, and any of the groupmate procs again.  Now, take a look at Stream of Arrows, that's one arrow every 1.5 seconds, but it counts it as a 7 second delay, so every 1.5 seconds, you have the above situation possible.  On most raids, our ranger's dps is made up of 30% poison, 20% offensive stance, and 20% stream shot (stream of arrows).  I'm not sure there's any other class that can rely on so little to get so much damage :smileytongue:  I would say, eventually, they'll look at the insane proc rate, but until then, rangers will continue to own when it comes to dps.  My only real gripe is that our (assassin) offensive stance makes up 2% of our overall damage, compared to ranger's 20%.  If it procced at a rate anywhere close to a ranger, the gap between our dps would be lessened to a degree.  There's an upcoming change to poisons in the works, hard to say what it will do to the dps of those who rely so much on it.

[Zodi]

<div>Where I see the unbalance is that the rangers can do all that damage from DISTANCE. They dont have to take the chance to get whacked by doing it in meele.</div><div> </div><div>That just my opinion....</div><div> </div><div>Zodian</div>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div>No arguements there :smileyhappy:

[Poochymama]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zodian wrote:<div>Where I see the unbalance is that the rangers can do all that damage from DISTANCE. They dont have to take the chance to get whacked by doing it in meele.</div><div> </div><div>That just my opinion....</div><div> </div><div>Zodian</div><hr></blockquote><p>Aye class balance for the t1 DPS classes is all messed up. IMO on encounters with no AOE assasins should out dmg rangers.</p><p>T1 is Like this atm for single target dmg</p><p> </p><p>Ranger (1000-1400)</p><p>Assasins (900-1300)</p><p>Wizards (500-800)</p><p>Warlocks (400-700)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>On AOE fights like some of the ones in PP it looks like this</p><p> </p><p>Rangers (3000+)</p><p>Warlocks (3000+)</p><p>Wizards (800-2000)</p><p>Assasins (800-2000)</p><p>On AOE fights numbers can vary alot. Our fury has done over 2.5k dps before, and I have seen our conjuror do 9k dps.</p>

[Skratttt]

<div></div><p>This was one of my arguments all allong</p><p>Classes that do their dmg within the arc of death should be given benefits for this extra penalty...</p><p>BTW anyone else find absurd the notion that we are a class that looses 70% its dps potential if hit by a dot??...</p><p>I think our dmg (raidwise) is where it should be in non AE fights....rangers are a little over(maybe more than that but whatever...)...wizzards/warlocks in solo shine ..main thing is that the buffs that benefit other classes imensly dont help them as much (btw that dps was calculated into those classses in balancing....so)</p><p>Currently i think the problem is mainly the super high delay weapon vs proc issue.....</p><p>Weapon proc should be a flat 3 second calculation for CA's maybe ...that would be a world of difference (basically allmost unchanged for classes with slow 2h cause of proc....bows would go down 50% though!! it would make all weapon speeds viable and equal options)</p>

[Zodi]

<div></div><div>Here is another question</div><div> </div><div>How does the other scout classes compare on the damage deal?</div><div> </div><div>I understand that the Bard class has more utility since they help regening and their buffing ability. But what about the Rogue class are they close on DPS? What is their utility?</div><div> </div><div>I think and thi sis jus tmy opinion that:</div><div> </div><div>Rangers=Warlocks (AOE- damage daddies)</div><div>Assassins=Wizards (single mob damage daddies)</div><div> </div><div>Just to re-iterate that i am not an scout, so my opinion should not count at all since I basically do not know anything on each class other than the insane damage is see from other classes</div><div> </div><div>Zodian</div>

[AratornCalahn]

<span><blockquote><hr>Zodian wrote:<div></div><div>Here is another question</div><div> </div><div>How does the other scout classes compare on the damage deal?</div><div> </div><div>I understand that the Bard class has more utility since they help regening and their buffing ability. But what about the Rogue class are they close on DPS? What is their utility?</div><div> </div><div>I think and thi sis jus tmy opinion that:</div><div> </div><div>Rangers=Warlocks (AOE- damage daddies)</div><div>Assassins=Wizards (single mob damage daddies)</div><div> </div><div>Just to re-iterate that i am not an scout, so my opinion should not count at all since I basically do not know anything on each class other than the insane damage is see from other classes</div><div> </div><div>Zodian</div><hr></blockquote>Swashys and brigands are fine where they are, they dont want uber damge like these classes - they are like troubudors, just leave them alone and dont roll one and you will be fine.I also aggre that assassins should out damge (current) rangers on single target fights. Yes I want to see another 1000+ sustatined DPS from assasins for single targets (before debuffs etc). And no, im not an assassin.</span><div></div>

[judged_one]

Raiding:1.) AOE: We don't have the dp nor the resist to stay in and melee. And most of the time, it take us longer to oust cause we have to run to the rite position, do some stealth induced CA before we do our hvy CA.Solution: How about change our DPS buff to Resist self Buff 30 sec with 3 min recast and triple out resisti.e 5k heat resist with 5.5k hp vs Sunchild 5.57k Heat Aoe2.) Aggro: Unless we are in MT or we have Trob, it is ultra easy to pull aggro. Even with a trob I can pull aggro if I push too hard.Solution: Make murderous design raid wide. Since MD doesn't stack I can't see how that will trivialize a raid.Grouping:I am doing pretty good here. Usually comparable to other Tier1Solo:Don't solo much, but I can usually kill what I need for quest update.<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:52 AM</span></p>

[Carna]

<div></div>Scout damage covers a very wide range. If you mean Predator, say that.... and no they don't do too much damage. If you wanted to be a damage dealer you shouldn't have rolled a fighter.

[Merkad]

Not that I am on a crusade defending Rangers or anything, but I would like to state my thoughts.Rangers are not the Warlock of Sorcerer's. We have three AEs, Natural Selection, 1 min timer - Thorny Trap, 2 min timer - Storm of Arrows, 3 min timer. Every other skill we have is single target.True, Rangers can fight away from melee range, and often do. Though optimal range for us is actually about the 10m range (because there we can use elude, and all or melee attacks while bow attacks are refreshing). Granted, for you guys, you really need to be close to do your damage, no arguement there. Just saying a Ranger who stays back all the time is not fighting as best as they can.Regarding the proc rate, you are right, with longbows we are proc machines, but where you are wrong is your want to have that lowered/yours to match it. The reason why is *sans* AE you guys are not that far below us DPS wise. If you lowered our proc rate, which as stated before, amounts to 50%+ of our dps, it would not only throw Rangers out of the top DPS slot, but out of tier 1. If you raised yours to match ours then you guys would just take number one by a healthy margin. Maybe a slight increase modifier for your class? I agree, you guys should have a slight bit more DPS to make it more even, and something to help mitigate AEs to allow you to do it more often.Regarding buffs. Currently, Haste and +DPS are not really that beneficial to Rangers, but they are huge to you guys. Ranger DPS is based on CA damage, and procs. Haste and +DPS are things that affect auto attack damge, which we do very little of. The buffs we need are +proc and +str/int. Obviously, you guys get more out of the buffs than us, unless, as always, it is an AE fight.@Zodian - Though I said I am not really trying to defend Rangers very much, I cannot but help to think ill of this post. So my question to you is this.. Why does DPS cost so much more Utlity than Tanking or Healing? The best Tanks and Healers in game gets lots of Utility, but the better DPS you are, the less you have, until you arrive at the Ranger's class. I can debuff defense by 36, parry/deflection by 45 and heat 1200ish & magic 900ish (those two don't stack). That is all unless I buy debuff poisons. I can buff your runspeed by 16%. That is all. And I can evac (which is virtually never used except as a means for travel). All Tanks and Healers can do much more than that, and are just as needed to win. True, DPS stacks better, but wisely mixing classes is better still (amends/assauge/flower song/procs to reach max DPS, debuffs/buffs for better hits by the DPS) and this is just on the offensive side, then you can add into the mix their defensive buffs. And lest I forget, why can a berserker do such good AE damage (surely, they are not t4 dps there)? It is hard to top them when they rampage/open wounds. I cannot think of any situation where I can out tank one (or come close).The final re iteration.. I do think Assassins could use a slight (slight, not major like alot of you seem to think) increase in dps/proc rate. I also think you should be able to cast Murderous Design raid wide so you can have proper de aggro. And finally, a way to deal with the AE situation (which, if it ever gets done, will probbaly be on SOE's side with mob skill make up (like PPR))Merkades, 60th ranger.Siege, Najena.

[devil_hunter]

<div></div><p>let me say this:</p><p> </p><p>yesterday i was with my guild in silent city to raid the eyes u need to get to godking anouk.</p><p>we tried a paladin as a MT and it was no use. the first 2 mobs, who where x4 raid contested, showed that the pala can´t stand the assassin´s dps and that the assassin needs 1 or 2 more deaggro spells. when the mob was at 20% or lower of it´s health i hit "Finishing Blow" and that was it with the aggro for the pala. i had the mob on my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and couldn´t get it down from me, simply no chance. on the second mob i died.</p><p>u see, it wasn´t my best dps spell who stole the MT the aggro, it was the number 3 dps spell who did it.</p><p>also SOE should make "Murderous Design" raid wide, only in group is just tooooooooo hard for the assassin specially when we don´t have a tank in our group.</p><p>and to the dps of the assassin:</p><p>i play on a german server "Innovation" and when we have a swashbuckler and a ranger in the raid they are always infront of the assassin with their dps. why? because our recast timer for our spells is ridicolous. 15 minutes for assassinate, come on. "Deathly Blade" had a recast from 5 minutes, now it´s 3 minutes but i have to say that it was already on 2 minutes and 30 seconds. what was that all about? first putting recast down and after a few days raising it for 30 more seconds, pfff :smileymad: if they reduce the recast from "Deathly Blade" they should reduce it from "Assassinate" too, fair is fair. other classes can hit more often with their highest dps spell because their recast is shorter. i only use assassinate at the end of a raid, this has 2 reasons:</p><p>1.) the mob never stands for 15 minutes so there is no use of an assassine to use "assassinate" twice in a raid</p><p>2.) it´s much safer for the assassine to cast this spell at the end because there can´t hardly happen anything anymore when the mob is lower than 20% or 15% with health, sure there can always go things wrong in a raid.</p><p> </p><p>SOE should highly decrease our recast timers of the spells and give us 1 or 2 more deaggro spells.</p><p>what´s the use of making high dmg and not getting the aggro down our [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?</p><p>also almost useless is the spell "Apply Poison". why can´t we cast this spell on ourselves?</p><p>rangers can harvest their arrows via spell. why can´t the assassin apply poison on his own weapon, must it be a group friends weapon? and rangers do make more dmg than the assassine, no ranger can´t deny this.</p><p> </p><p>that´s all i have to say and i hope that some players who have chosen an assassine as their class agree with me in some points</p>

[Oreo]

<div>For what it's worth I as a templar prefer to group with assassins.  I've grouped with alot of rangers and assassins.   I suppose its possible that every ranger I've come across sucks and every assassin is a great player but I refuse to believe it would break that way.  Your dps machines and blatantly obvious that no one can hold a candle to you in single target dps.  It's just a shame there are so few of you all around.   I wish for assassins first and then sorcerors but I always end up settling on summoners and rangers to fill groups.</div>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Oreo81 wrote:<div>Your dps machines and blatantly obvious that no one can hold a candle to you in single target dps. <hr></div></blockquote>We do have nice dps, we're much better off than the T1 casters atm (not summoners though!).  But, if it's your experience that assassins do more damage, even on a single target, than a ranger, then I'll have to say those rangers don't really know what they're doing.

[oldie]

<span><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:Raiding:1.) AOE: We don't have the dp nor the resist to stay in and melee. And most of the time, it take us longer to oust cause we have to run to the rite position, do some stealth induced CA before we do our hvy CA.Solution: How about change our DPS buff to Resist self Buff 30 sec with 3 min recast and triple out resisti.e 5k heat resist with 5.5k hp vs Sunchild 5.57k Heat Aoe2.) Aggro: Unless we are in MT or we have Trob, it is ultra easy to pull aggro. Even with a trob I can pull aggro if I push too hard.Solution: Make murderous design raid wide. Since MD doesn't stack I can't see how that will trivialize a raid.Grouping:I am doing pretty good here. Usually comparable to other Tier1Solo:Don't solo much, but I can usually kill what I need for quest update.<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:52 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I really don't think MD needs to be raid wide...I never have a troub in my DPS group and I never take agro, while I still do 900+ dps.. Try to find a person in the group that doesn't create much agro and I think you'll be fine.</span><div></div>

[dparker7]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MystaSkratch wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Oreo81 wrote:<div>Your dps machines and blatantly obvious that no one can hold a candle to you in single target dps. <hr></div></blockquote>We do have nice dps, we're much better off than the T1 casters atm (not summoners though!).  But, if it's your experience that assassins do more damage, even on a single target, than a ranger, then I'll have to say those rangers don't really know what they're doing.<hr></blockquote>Yeah, the ranger in my guild can often do two and a half times the damage of everyone else.  While I often come in second, Im never anywhere near his damage output.  Admittedly, he spends a ton of cash on poison and arrows, but the difference between a ranger and everyone else is just kinda insane.

[Cubem]

I do believe Ranger needs to be balance but tradtionally Assassin is a melee class while Ranger is a ranged class. I would like to see someone break the statistics of all Scout class to see who is doing the most damage and wether or not its ranged or melee.<div></div>