The end to rare poisons

[Rijacki]

I thought you should know.  Because there isn't a scout forum any more, I will be posting this to the 4 relevant forums.  This is not intended as spam.<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&message.id=8643">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&message.id=8643</a><span><blockquote><hr>Beghn wrote:<p><font color="#ffff00">There have been some posts in the General Tradeskill forums with the effects on no sub-combines and the effect on Potions/Poisons crafting.  As by products are going away with the change I thought I'd detail more what we are going to be doing for alchemists and there potions/poisons.1. There will no longer be Rare potions/poisons.2. Potions/Poisons will be changing to single charge items but they will be stackable.3. The names of potions/poisons will become more streamline and understandable to the alchemist's customers.4. There will be a shorter list of effects that potions/poisons can do but they will all be useful to the right customer.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Poison Effects:</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Caustic Poison: Poison based health DD.Hemotoxin: Poison based health DoT.Vitality Breach: Poison based life-tap.Mental Breach: Poison based power tap.Essence of Turgur: Poison based slow.Fettering Poison: Poison based snare.Ignorant Bliss: Poison based agro-reduction.Stupefying Poison: Poison based short stun.Enfeebling Poison: Strength and offensive melee technique reduction.Cerebral Ebb: Int and casting technique reduction.Gracelessness: Agility and defensive technique reduction.Warding Ebb: Wisdom and spell resist reduction.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Potion Effects:</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Noxious Remedy: Cures noxious effects.Elemental Remedy: Cures elemental effects.Arcane Remedy: Cures arcane effects.Trauma Remedy: Cures trauma effects.Essence of Health: Health HealEssence of Power: Power HealEssence of Regeneration: Health heal over time.Essence of Clarity: Power heal over time.Freedom of Mind: Stun/Stifle break free.Elixir of Thorns: Damage shield.Elixir of Constitution: Health Pool increase.Elixir of Transcendence: Power pool increase.Elixir of Fortitude: Strength stat increase.Elixir of Deftness: Agility stat increase.Elixir of Piety: Wisdom stat increase.Elixir of Intellect: Intelligence stat increase.Elemental Reprieve: Elemental WardNoxious Reprieve: Noxious WardArcane Reprieve: Arcane Ward</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Please feel free to express your questions/concerns and I'll try my best to address them as they come up.</font></p><p>Message Edited by Beghn on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:29 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Outerspace]

So there's only going to be one DD poison? Apart from raiding I guess that would be the only one people use.They removed the advantage some people had by using legendary poisons - for PvP perhaps - and changed the poisons so you get a DD, a DoT, but not both. Wonderful.So we are all using the same ones now? Not really a nerf I suppose, nor a balance since everyone used Adeste's - just a WoWification. To clarify:WoW has Instant (DD) poison, Deadly (DoT) poison, Crippling Poison (slow), Mind Numbing Poison (slows casting speed) and a few others. They're all the same for all rogue classes. Each have one charge but can be stacked. You can't get a better poison than anyone else, although you can apply poison directly to each of your weapons so that both proc it. So you can have a DD poison on main hand and DoT poison on your off hand weapon. Sadly on EQ2 damage poisons don't stack so you can only have one or the other <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But, WoW was designed for PvP, and EQ2 is just changing its PvE gameplay to suit PvP. Regardless, I can already feel Assassin DPS reducing with these changes. I don't know what you all think about that.<div></div>

[snack-machine]

<div></div><p>Outerspace,</p><p>I thought I'd ask.....If they remoce rare poisons from the game, even if we are all using the same one, how is this not a nerf? I'm more interested in continuing the same amount of DPS as I currently am able to do. If they remove rare poisons and we are all using the same one, wouldn't that amount to a nerf on us all?</p>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>snack-machine wrote:<div></div><p>Outerspace,</p><p>I thought I'd ask.....If they remoce rare poisons from the game, even if we are all using the same one, how is this not a nerf? I'm more interested in continuing the same amount of DPS as I currently am able to do. If they remove rare poisons and we are all using the same one, wouldn't that amount to a nerf on us all?</p><hr></blockquote><p>ranger here... fishing around seeing how other scout classes though of this " change ".  The DEV guy said that rare poisons where never inteded to be used all the time.. hehehehe  that is how they can classify this as a non-nerf.  This will greatly reduce our dps potential.</p><p>I for one am very weary.....  I classify this as a nerf <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Outerspace]

<div></div>It is a nerf, I agree.I was just trying to convince myself that it wasn't another nerf on Assassins. But I couldn't do it. I posted hastily because I wanted to say "World of Warcraft" as soon as I saw the change because they're changing most of it to what Blizzard has, but missing some parts out, i.e. the short poison duration (less waste if you change poison) and the lower number of procs per charge. It sounds like SOE's attitude to poison after this change is that we should be rattling through vials rapidly instead of getting 2 weeks casual gameplay from one vial of Adeste's, so I would not be surprised if the full WoW poison implementation came in. I believe someone mentioned it already in the thread linked by the OP. I guess one of the KoS AA's could be increased damage or proc rate on your DD or DoT poisons - oh a direct steal from WoW too. But enough of my bitterness <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />There isn't many ways they can make this look hopeful for us. The DD poison might have a 600 hit per proc which in group situations would be great, especially with Deadfall to give you an extra boost. Maybe an increased proc rate too. The DoT poison might tick for 150 but every 2 seconds rather than 6. But if these things I mention happened, we would be even more reliant on poison than we are now.And then you raid and fight a poison immune mob and wish you'd rerolled bruiser.They're going to have to give us something, aren't they?Aren't they?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Outerspace on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:00 AM</span></p>

[Hawgeous]

<div></div>Yet another sad day, at this rate I would look for them to make a change to carpenters which ends up having a negative impact on assassins.:smileysad:

[Bayler_x]

Assassins, this might end up being a very good thing for you.If the devs use this oportunity to beef up the DoT poisons (but not the DD poisons), that will improve your over damage output (which, from what I hear, you're not happy with).  They just need to change the curve a little bit.  They *can't* improve DD poisons without expanding the gap between rangers and everyone else: our high proc rate and multi-shot arts mean that DDs are the only effective kind of poison for us.  Your hits, on the other hand, are more spread out, aren't they?  That means that DoTs have more time to work.  Even if they don't usually last their full duration before being overwritten, a properly balanced DoT could be a significant benefit to the melee scouts.That's my theory, anyway.<div></div>

[Skratttt]

<div></div><div>:smileysurprised:</div><div> </div><div>What gladly suprised me was that freedom of mind.........basically a stun/stiffle breaker...that would be usefull for certain AE stun mobs....</div><div> </div><div>other than that... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No more resistance debuff poison??? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</div><p>Message Edited by Skratttt on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:33 AM</span></p>

[Graton]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Bayler_xev wrote:Assassins, this might end up being a very good thing for you.If the devs use this oportunity to beef up the DoT poisons (but not the DD poisons), that will improve your over damage output (which, from what I hear, you're not happy with).  They just need to change the curve a little bit.  They *can't* improve DD poisons without expanding the gap between rangers and everyone else: our high proc rate and multi-shot arts mean that DDs are the only effective kind of poison for us.  Your hits, on the other hand, are more spread out, aren't they?  That means that DoTs have more time to work.  Even if they don't usually last their full duration before being overwritten, a properly balanced DoT could be a significant benefit to the melee scouts.That's my theory, anyway.<div></div><hr></blockquote>In short, not really. From a lot of parsing I still found that adestes provided more of a dmg boost then anything else. Assassin's keep in mind have 3 bow shots which we use quite frequently. 2 are nice dmg and the 3rd is a doubleshot with two chances to proc. The same proc mechanics that help rangers when using the long bow help us as well so high upfront poisons are still the champs from my perspective. The majority of my procs come from the bow in shorter fights which are 90% of the fights in the game. In a zone like PPTR where you have longer fights with no jousting i could see dot poisons being better but anything where you joust or which is shortlived - Courts of AA fights for example, high DD is better for both predators.This is a nerf that I think was intended to be directed at rangers but will negatively impact assassins as well. It will not impact us nearly as much mind you but then again, ranger dps is currently in a better state than ours so I guess know we might be more equal but weakened overall.</span></div>

[Cubem]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Outerspace wrote:So there's only going to be one DD poison? Apart from raiding I guess that would be the only one people use.They removed the advantage some people had by using legendary poisons - for PvP perhaps - and changed the poisons so you get a DD, a DoT, but not both. Wonderful.So we are all using the same ones now? Not really a nerf I suppose, nor a balance since everyone used Adeste's - just a WoWification. To clarify:WoW has Instant (DD) poison, Deadly (DoT) poison, Crippling Poison (slow), Mind Numbing Poison (slows casting speed) and a few others. They're all the same for all rogue classes. Each have one charge but can be stacked. You can't get a better poison than anyone else, although you can apply poison directly to each of your weapons so that both proc it. So you can have a DD poison on main hand and DoT poison on your off hand weapon. Sadly on EQ2 damage poisons don't stack so you can only have one or the other <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But, WoW was designed for PvP, and EQ2 is just changing its PvE gameplay to suit PvP. Regardless, I can already feel Assassin DPS reducing with these changes. I don't know what you all think about that.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I hope they dont continue to nerf our DPS. Its getting to be a bit ridiculous.</span></div>

[Aienaa]

<div></div><p>From what I just read in the crafting forums, rare poisons are not going away now....  Problem was that when they restructured crafting, the loam by-product was eliminated....  as we all know, no loam = no poison.... </p><p>So, what they have done is made it so making an Adept 3 spell now produces a by-product...  This by-product will be used in crafting the rare poisons....</p><p>Personally I wish poisons had nothing to do with spells...  Pearls / Vanadiums can also be made into jewelry, but if you do that no loam is produced which limits how much is going into the rare potions and poisons....  And needless to say, when the need for Adept 3's drop, the loams comming into the system drops, which reduces the availability of rare potions / poisons...</p><p> </p><p>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</p>

[Cubem]

Hopefully what the Master Crafters will do is continue to flood the market with popular Adept III's in order to keep to level of loams in decent supply.<div></div>

[Demonskill]

<div>thx for the nerf SOE, i still got 8 vale of rare poison in my bag</div>

[judged_one]

Another nerf...What do you expect?I don't think I have seen more then 2 freaking updates without another freaking blow to my DPS.What about Briuser, Conjuror and Necro.When are they getting the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] stick?

[Remma]

Quick quote from Beghn<font color="#ffff00">All of those rare poisons will still be usable after these changes go in.</font><div>Ben____________________________Mechanics Designer, EverQuest II____________________________So any poisons you have had made prior to the patch should (if I'm reading this right) remain exactly the same, it's only poisons made post-patch that will be affected.</div><div></div>

[Persi]

<div></div><p>If they're just gonna keep on nerfing the class down, they might as well just remove it from the game entirely and make us all play another class. Seriously, this is starting to get comical.</p><p> </p><p>Orontes</p><p>45 Assassin</p><p>Assassin on Unrest</p>

[kopingOwen]

first we had utility and some dps then they decided to take away the utlity for more dps.. now they are slowly taking away the dps but don´t give us backt he utility.. i´m wondering what is left? tracking OMG they gonna make TRACKING more usefull with more options to SORT the mobs and that uba stuff... omg i gonna be the UBA tracker!!! wait! all scouts got track.... oh well<span>:smileysad:</span>

[Demonskill]

<div>heh so we should stack up tons of rare poison before patch comes in</div>