Why assassins will never be fixed properly...

[Sneddle-UNREST]

<DIV>Found in message:   <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=2350#M2350" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=2350#M2350</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moorgard summed it up pretty much in that post. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Time to re-roll I guess.  *sigh*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>post follows:</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV>It's not a crazy idea; it has been mentioned by players in just about every MMO ever made. However, it's an undesirable course of action for a couple reasons.</DIV> <P>First, balancing upward creates a spiral that never ends. Say a new necromancer ability is put into the game that makes the class far more powerful than intended. Because nerfs aren't allowed, you have to increase at least one ability for every other class to even things out. But now that all players are as a whole much more powerful, you need to increase NPC hitpoints and/or damage output to compensate. You must do this every single time you find an ability that is overpowered. Not only does this approach require significantly more work (instead of changing one variable, you're likely changing hundreds), but it introduces additional potential for imbalances which must then be addressed through another round of upscaling all your numbers. Hopefully you can see how this approach quickly inflates numbers in the game to ridiculous levels.</P> <P>Second, it ultimately wouldn't satisfy the anti-nerf crowd anyway. Why? Because of a perceived effect known as <EM>nerfing by proxy</EM>. See, pretty much any time one class gets an improvement in some ability that intersects (or even contrasts) with that of another class, some members of that other class will invariably complain that they have been made less desirable by this change. Don't believe me? Scan a few class boards, especially after one class gets an improvement that another member of the same archetype does not. If we were to boost Ice Comet by 10%, for instance, I guarantee you that some other variety of mage would soon post how this change made his class less powerful or relevant.</P> <P>For all practical purposes, seeing someone else get some benefit that you don't often ends up being perceived as a negative. That holds true whether we're talking about class changes in an MMO or about who gets a bigger raise on the job in the real world. If you get a 5% raise and someone you think was overpaid anyway gets a 7% raise, you're probably going to see that as a slight against you--even though you're better off than you were before the raise. That's just human nature.</P> <P>Ultimately class balance is as much about perception and emotion as it is about data; that's what makes it such a tricky proposition. But in the end, the accumulation of class changes is never totally positive or totally negative, even when done on the scale of Live Update #13. And because so much of this relies on perception and opinion (and because the game itself keeps on growing and evolving), class balancing will be an ongoing process throughout the life of the game.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR>

[dj_krztoff]

I don't see how this post is even remotely relevant to the title.  Nowhere in that blurb does it indicate that they are done balancing classes, it merely outlines a few of the finer points of how they go about making such changes.  If anything, this post explains WHY it's taking so long to balance the classes. /. RTFA<div></div>

[pczry]

<DIV>Looks more like an explanation on how balance feature work.  I havent been using combat stats to record dps lately since dof, but from reading all these unhappy post by other fellow assassin, its safe to assume we are not t1 dps as stated in previous notes.  Is that consider an imbalance or was that a typo about assassin being t1 dps?</DIV><p>Message Edited by pczryan on <span class=date_text>12-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:54 PM</span>

[Graton]

all this points out is the silly idea that people always have of increasing rather than nerfing doesn't work. mobs die to fast as it is. i'd be happy if they evenly nerfed dps on all classes across the board because frankly it's ridiculous how fast even heroic triple ups go down. the point is you can't always adjust everyone upwards or your dps becomes essentially meaningless because everything is dead in less than 5 seconds. not sure what in the world this has to do with assassins. <div></div>

[pist]

Ultimately class balance is as much about perception and emotion as it is about data Very true, but from a t1 dps perspective, I really would like to see the #s that they are coming up with.   I can't imagine any well played assassin matching #s with a well played rannger of the same equipment level on a constant basis.  Maybe on that 1 mob every 15 mins when you can unload all your spells (well, unless its a raid mob with no devistating AOE - as heroics don't last long enough). Hell, i'd like to see really how they consider something to be 'balanced'.  Obviously I want all the classes to be cool and unique, but they are of course going to have some overlap.   For instance, do they consider assassinate + evac (15 min timer) to be equivilent to a wizard's Ice comet + evac (on a 30 min timer)?   When you start throwin utility and other stuff into the mix, it becomes a pretty tough call on how to balance. <div></div>

[dj_krztoff]

in a perfect world, combat and utility would be balanced individually from one-another.  ... in a perfect world.<div></div>

[Mistwaver]

<DIV>Assassins have been busted since beta, and seeing they haven't fixed them yet, that pretty much makes it obvious they're not going to. Even as [Removed for Content] as we are compared to the other scout classes, I enjoy playing my Assassin most of the time. Don't know why, but I just do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only thing Assassin has going for it is to brag about how much damage they can do in a full fabled gear with Assassinate Master I. A big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit every 15 minutes, or every 20 fights or so, woohoo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll just keep playing my Assassin until Vanguard arrives, then I'll be in heaven.</DIV>

[Demonskill]

<DIV>btw did anyone mention, Assassin has been NERFED ALL THE WAY from the start till now. So if other class get a boost, why have us for the nerf?</DIV>