Assassins not suitable for End-Game Raids?

[Astyr]

<DIV>Hi there,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I (lvl 59 Assassin by now) have participated in quite some raids now in Akhet Aken, Maj Dul and Silent City. Most of the Mobs there do a LOT of AE damage. Enough damage to kill me outright, when enganged in melee fighting. And yes: my equipment is legendary or fabled, all spells are Master I oder Adept III. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With most mobs we have a healer chain to the main tank and nuke from maximum distance, which allows warlocks, wizards and rangers to do their damage properly. This works quite fine - a lot of mobs have been defeated this way. However, of what use is the assassin for the raid? Not much in my opinion: All they can do is using the few ranged combat arts and eventually doing suicide assassinate, gorestrike or deathly blade runs to the mob and then quickly retreat. If they are lucky, they survive, but they never can compete with other DDs like the Ranger or even the Brigands who are immune to almost any AE, if they like to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My question is: who needs melee DDs in a Raid? Why not just substitute the Assassin by a Ranger or a Wiz/Warlock?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did I just miss the 'just hit the immune-to-AE-button' tactic or did other assassins notice the same?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks and regards,</DIV> <DIV>Sulan</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Olath Veldrin</DIV> <DIV>Assassin 59 / Jeweler 60</DIV> <DIV>Innovation</DIV>

[hammong]

<DIV>Unfortunately you're going to be relegated to ranged combat if you can't handle the heat of AoE boss encounters.     As much effort goes into class balancing, I do not think that SoE has gotten to the point where they have considered the role of each class in a raid boss situation.   Some classes are going to be very desirable (wizards, rangers, etc) for their improved ranged abilities, and some are less desirable.   Everybody can contribute something, and unless your raid is FULL and there's no room for you, don't worry about your effectiveness - just do what you can to help.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[dparker7]

yes, we arent exactly desireable on encounters with AEs.  However, we're atleast better than swashies because our high timers actually mean that we're more effective then they are in shorter bursts up close to the mob.  So not the worst DPS choice, just close.

[Astyr]

<P>This sounds like AE encounters were few, but in my experience the majority of raid boss encounters does nasty AEs. And it's no matter of heat resistance. Currently there is a 70% cap and I am always at the cap (due to changing equipment)- still I can't stand the AE. </P> <P>We definitely need some tuning here ... maybe AE immunity is not the way to go, but something has to change. It's not very exciting to stay 70% of the time at distance to the mob and use the few ranged attacks we have. I am somewhat disappointed here ... this problem already existed with Wrath of the Fury and now we have a similar situation with the Mobs' regular AEs.</P> <P> </P>

[scivias]

If every class could get around the close range AEs they would be pointless, so in a way assassins and swashbuckler serve as a "glad we are not THEM" experience.And that's pretty much all there is to say.<div></div>

[Dragonsviperz]

<P>Yea it does suck in DoF for the AE's, because i remember i didnt mind ranging the encounters on some mobs, mostly the contested mobs, but now our ranged dps is lacking. I also stood in the AE and took alot of dmg, but didn't die. This has made me angry that we can't do that any more. I think its stupid that a brigand gets a skill that makes them immune to an AE for their ranged dps, HELLO, they suck at ranged dps anyway. So SOE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up again in that skill because the brig is gaining more then losing. But i don't think we are a complete waste in raids, i mean i can parse up with the ranger, wizzy some of the time...but yea, we aren't a complete waste in raids.</P>

[dparker7]

<DIV>I can beat my guild ranger too when I spam all my attacks and he uses just 3 or 4, because if he uses more he draws agro.  </DIV>

[kopingOwen]

So we gonna start go down on aoe´s now... well [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lets just take away the resists on the mobs aswell?? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] I don´t get what in the world you are talking about.. "Boo Hoo we can´t avoid aoes like brigands... boohoo we can´t do much dps at range.. ect ect" well i´ll bring some hard headed truth into your head... all epic aoes can be avoided IF you know what you are doing! And no i will not tell you exactly how to avoid sertan mobs aoes and what to do ect ect since if you did not figure it out then you should not be raiding end game... BTW our DPS is fine now i imo... don´t know were you get that we do not have any dps compared to other dps classes I´ve seen numbers 500 and up in most raids and thats fine with me sure we could push near the 1k dps line if the mob is debuffed alot and we use our high damage attacks. Oh and one last thing... that we are not desierd in xp grps, loot runs? oh wizzys and warlocks are better dps they are prefferd?? plain BS ever tried to do dps as a wizzy in a grp with 2 assassins? guess not becouse then you would see that before they get off a spell the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] mobs are already dead (just alittle not wizzyz and warlocks are good too since they have this cool little thing that they can root encounters and burn them down but i rather have a chanter in grp then a wizzy/warlock) but i guess I´m just gonna get flamed and such for this... becouse there will always be complaints i´m just one of those that are happy with my class and thing there is a slight overrated to whine about poor dps now.. there is other classes that have far more problems then we do at the moment.. Yes our brother class are alittle more lucky then us in the dps department at the moment but i don´t mind they still ranged and we are melee so there is room for both classes =)

[Craien]

Hey koping, there might be some negativity here, but it's well deserved.  It's fine if you don't agree, but could you put a check on the hostility?  I don't see how that is necessary or constructive at all.  The point people are trying to make is the risk vs. reward does not add up compared to certain other classes in raid (and non-raid) situations.  Risk being obvious, the reward being dps.  We don't want to be 'fine', we want to be the utmost at what we do. <p>Message Edited by Craien on <span class=date_text>12-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:47 PM</span>

[devil_hunter]

<P>hi sulan</P> <P> </P> <P>i have to give u right with ur appointment.</P> <P>when i´m raiding with my guild i´m never in the first or second group, always in the group that dies fast.</P> <P>because we have weak buffs and debuffs compared to a brigand or swashi.</P> <P>I did on monday with my guild "templer" in zek the orcish waste. the AoE he gave us was out of this world. first AoE attack from him and i was down to red already. thanks god we had a lots of halers in our raid but i died 2 times and my armor was completly ruined (and yes i repared it before going to the raid so i had 100% fulla rmor and weapons on him), costed me 25 gold to repair it since i have a lot of fabled items and no we can´t avoid AoE´s since we are not running out of range.</P>

[kopingOwen]

Yeah ok so got alittle to far there in going down on others... And i agree we DO need to work for our dps.. more then sertan other classes and since i´m one of those players that want to be the best i´m happy with it =) sure I´m not always the no:1 on the parser list but i´m usually in the top and then if a warlock is ahead of me or hell even a ranger atleast i can say to them.. "well atleast i´m not some freaking point and click dps class" and i would never want to be one eather.. no offense to early stated classes but it´s just how i feel... It takes more skill to play a good assassin then a good wizrad/warlock and they know it! so when i get 1. on that dps praser i get 2x the joy.<div></div>

[Aienaa]

<P>I believe what the OP was talking about is raids (like Gates of Aket Aken) where some of the mobs have a 6+k poison AE...  Well, needless to say, most people do not have 6+k health, so they are 1 shot killed by the AE...  Where before you could usually take 1 hit by the AE and live (just barely), now it's 1 hit killing people....  Kinda funny to hear 10 or so people doing thier death screams at once as the AE lands....</P> <P>This also go back to what I was talking about previously...  Thoes who have the best resists as a side effect of thier primary stats for power pool (mainly priest classes, with caster classes second because thier gear is mainly wis/int) are the ones that can avoid the AE (stand out of range) while doing thier job at a raid.... Thoes that have to risk the AEs do not have the benifit of Wis enhanced resists because it is not thier primary, secondary or tertiary stats....</P> <P>Now if we could take more than 24 people into a raid zone, we could raid the assassins to burn down the yard trash, then drop them to invite the real DPS for the named encounters, and we could become the offical guild raid photographers...</P> <P>Opps, let me get back to being serious...</P> <P>When jousting, I try to save my ranged attacks (3 bow and improvised weapon) for when I have to back out of the AE area, then leave ranged auto attack on....  Yeah, it is a significant loss of DPS, but it's alot better than doing nothing at all....  Also, while backed out, some of your CAs refresh and are ready for use when the AE lands and you can go back in....   Another good thing I guess, is that you are alot less likely to pull agro when you are jousting rather than going all out melee....  Yes it sucks, but is something we can live with until SOE decides that the degree of difficulty is not equal to the amount of damage the AOE does, and that there are other ways to make things more difficult...</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 60 Assassin  /  Parody - 54 Troubador</P>

[dea]

Most of the time I'm taking 2-4k damage when I get caught by an AE. In some cases, it is far more than this and that is usually due to support group members having already been killed. It is those hits in the upper 4k that can one-shot me when I'm in a group with particularly poor buffs.Some of our stamina geared scouts end up with 6-7k health in our groups. By no means do we have perfect groups or even excellent groups -- our turnout and therefore choice of classes is often disappointing -- but such is still possible.<div></div>

[Drtydog]

<P>well, I don't do scientific studies but I raid almost every night.  In my raids i'm always in the MT grp.  If i'm not aggro not only goes to me but goes to others in other grps as well.  If i'm in the MT grp and running my aggro giver then the MT normally holds aggro or when he loses it it's briefly.  Now, i don't sit there and spam attacks either.  Wizzies don't chain Ice commet.  I save finishing blow and assassinate till later in the fights.  </P> <P>Running numbers i'm usually in the top 4 of DPS over the whole raid.   I take damage in raids when there are AOEs but that's why god created healers.  Normally i run 3 poisons at a time, sometimes they are legendary sometimes they are not. I have fabled or legendary gear.  </P> <P>I don't know...maybe our raid grps are set up better?  I don't really have a problem dieing in raids.  I guess i'd ask honestly if your raids are really a DPS contest?  I won't stand for that. I see a brigand pulling aggro or wiz pulling aggro in a raid by chain casting and i'm on thieir [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Of course we only raid in guild so that helps</P>

[Dragonsviperz]

Well, i have most my masters now and i am happy with our dps, not bad compared to what has happened with other classes and pretty much taking a complete 180 in their skills. And i know how to miss/withstand an AE, reists armor ftw plus sta, but usually i don't get a good resist group most the times so i don't want to risk dying and losing all dps and waste a healer rez(happens alot, i get like 2 rez's per raid now...) But we are good, and as for xp groups and stuff like that, we are good lol, i am just as good as most classes in a group, It all depends who is behind the keyboard =P

[Kokus]

<DIV>I stay in on any AE possible.  I have a decent set of resist gear for any occasion, and even in gates, I can withstand their poison AEs taking about 2k damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The AEs I can't do anything about are the ones from the orange cons like Sunchild/Black Queen.. Ouch Ouch Ouch.  4500 magic resist and take 8k magic damage. No Good!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The other AEs I can't take are the ones with stun component like Chilling Mist in Gates/Moonchild.  Get hit. survive, but stunned forever and a day(usually wears off when the AE hits again) unless I get a cure.  Not exactly the best thing in the world.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However terrorantula, and most other yellow conned nameds with AEs, I can take the hits and survive quite well.  In a raid group I'm usually sitting above 6k hps(once in awhile I get close to 8k), and an AE for 2k is like nothing.  We can usually kill a mob before I even need a heal with a setup like that.  Goliathan, Arazul, get your resists high enough and you can flat out resist the typhoon/disease AE and just stay in the whole time like you are a brigand.  Yeah, massive AE suck, but at least we can do something with 3 decent ranged attacks instead of standing there looking like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</DIV>

[Hadanelith]

<P>I can't say too much about it or my Guild Leader would lock me in a cellar for a week but...</P> <P>There is an answer to avoiding AE's as an Assassin. It's called Jousting, or guerilla warfare, or in-n-out if your guild's particularly perverted. Whatever you call it, it's all about realizing that guess what? Those AE's go off every so many seconds and the rest of the time there's no threat to you at all. It's still good to have your saves in the 5500+ range after buffs in case you DO eat one... but not necessary if you get good at it.</P> <P>Have fun! Our guild's still workin on it too. Gettin better!</P> <P>-Hadanelith Raswrolski, Assassin of Legacy</P>

[silentpsycho]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>well, I don't do scientific studies but I raid almost every night.  In my raids i'm always in the MT grp.  If i'm not aggro not only goes to me but goes to others in other grps as well.  If i'm in the MT grp and running my aggro giver then the MT normally holds aggro or when he loses it it's briefly.  Now, i don't sit there and spam attacks either.  Wizzies don't chain Ice commet.  I save finishing blow and assassinate till later in the fights. </P> <P>Running numbers i'm usually in the top 4 of DPS over the whole raid.   I take damage in raids when there are AOEs but that's why god created healers.  Normally i run 3 poisons at a time, sometimes they are legendary sometimes they are not. I have fabled or legendary gear. </P> <P>I don't know...maybe our raid grps are set up better?  I don't really have a problem dieing in raids.  I guess i'd ask honestly if your raids are really a DPS contest?  I won't stand for that. I see a brigand pulling aggro or wiz pulling aggro in a raid by chain casting and i'm on thieir [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Of course we only raid in guild so that helps</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Ok, I don't raid every night, but I've raided enough to know that putting an assasin in the MT group is, lets say, uncommon.  I'm not level 59 either, but similarly, I do know that I can only have 2 poisons "running" at any given time, one damage and one debuff.  WIth these incorrect or inaccurate statements, I tend to doubt the accuracy of the other information in your post, especially the part about always being in the top 4 DPS over the whole raid or surviving 6K AOE's because your raid groups are some how set up better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your point about managing your aggro is correct, but also trivially obvious and contributes nothing to the topic at hand.  Assasin's aren't dying because they are drawing aggro, they are dying because they are being one shot'ed by huge AOE's (if they mess the joust timing up).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know why I'm in such a bad mood and flaming your post so badly.  Oh yeah, it's because of LU18 going live in a completely untested state, and that the primary character that I've spent so long developing has slipped so far from where SOE stated they should be, and continues to be broken more and more, update after update.  My apologies, but stupidity bothers me.  Posts saying Assasins are fine compared to Wizards, Warlocks, Rangers, Necromancers, etc. don't have a clue what they are talking about.</DIV>

[sneakli]

<P>Not to nit pick or anything but I am under the impression we can run 1 damage poison, 1 debuff poison, and 1 "utility" poison at the same time. Like stun or something.  Not sure what other "utility" poisons there are.</P> <P>Good hunting</P> <P>--Scratch</P>

[judged_one]

I am sorry, but I don't think assassin is in any MT group in any hard raid.Most of the harder raid mobs are doing 5-8k auto melee dmg, MT will need more mit or resistance.And Holding Aggro is not as important as keeping MT alive.Currently most MT group is 2-3 healer (CLeric, shaman and Driud) a Bard and a Summoner, or SK or Apply (More Mit)So which leave assassin in a DPS Group. In order for me to avoid drawing aggro I have to spam my IS, and Evasion.Which means yet even less DPS.Wait till LU 19, and I bet we will be nerfed yet again. Either way I am at a point where I am about to stop playing my assassin. My fury is lvl 32... so hopefully I can pump it up to lvl 50 this holidayIt is sad that such a cool class(Assassin) is so broken and it not even a worthy raiding class, and I don't like to burden my guild with a half a s s class taking up a spot, when deep down we know taht Brigand, Ranger, Swashy, Summoner, Nerco and Caster will improve the chance of success way more then us. I am gonna miss my sexy half elf assassin :<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class=date_text>12-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:45 AM</span>

[Damari]

the legendary 15% proc 'slow' works well.  :smileywink:

[Amise]

<span><blockquote><hr>silentpsycho wrote:<div></div> <div>  Posts saying Assasins are fine compared to Wizards, Warlocks, Rangers, Necromancers, etc. don't have a clue what they are talking about.</div><hr></blockquote>I don't see Assassins as broken but I agree with this whole-heartedly.  These classes do more damage than us <b>and they do it at range, safely, with no AEs to worry about, ever</b>.  We are seriously gimped on raids with AE mobs, which seems to be pretty much everything in DoF and jousting does not alleviate this at all when we are the only T1 (HAH) DPS class that has to do it.</span><div></div>

[silentpsycho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sneaklily wrote:<BR> <P>Not to nit pick or anything but I am under the impression we can run 1 damage poison, 1 debuff poison, and 1 "utility" poison at the same time. Like stun or something.  Not sure what other "utility" poisons there are.</P> <P>Good hunting</P> <P>--Scratch</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nope.  Debuf and utility/stun are one in the same.  You can run up to two potions at any given time; if there is a bug or something that lets you run 3, I'd sure like to know about it.

[Aienaa]

<HR> <BR>Nope.  Debuf and utility/stun are one in the same.  You can run up to two potions at any given time; if there is a bug or something that lets you run 3, I'd sure like to know about it. <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are incorrect.... you can run 3 poisons... Damage / Debuff / Utility</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Utility and Debuff are 2 different kinds of poisons and you can run both.... Utility is Stun, Stifle, Slow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When soloing named mobs or duoing instances I tend to run all 3 kinds and I can tell you that all 3 different types do work together....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin  /  Parody - 54 Troubador</DIV>

[dea]

This is nothing new guys. Try it.<div></div>

[judged_one]

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=1934&jump=true#M1934And you wonder why SOE is not looking at assassin,When you have assassin saying we can hit 1k on Raid...I am sorry, I am not the most uber assassin out there, but I honestly can see any assassin hitting 1k DPS on any T6 Yellow or Orange Mob. Maybe Lockjaw... didn't parse that one.On any real Raid, I think a right parse would be 400-600. Lower on 400 if the mob has multi-aoe. 600 if we can melee more andmost of our big attack is up.Anyone else parsed 1k - 1.4k DPS in raid?MY AR is 1142STR is 350-400AGI is 350-400INT is 100-150Use legendary poison...

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=1934&jump=true#M1934<BR><BR>And you wonder why SOE is not looking at assassin,<BR><BR>When you have assassin saying we can hit 1k on Raid...<BR><BR>I am sorry, I am not the most uber assassin out there, <BR>but I honestly can see any assassin hitting 1k DPS on any T6 Yellow or Orange Mob. Maybe Lockjaw... didn't parse that one.<BR>On any real Raid, I think a right parse would be 400-600. Lower on 400 if the mob has multi-aoe. 600 if we can melee more and<BR>most of our big attack is up.<BR><BR>Anyone else parsed 1k - 1.4k DPS in raid?<BR><BR>MY AR is 1142<BR>STR is 350-400<BR>AGI is 350-400<BR>INT is 100-150<BR><BR>Use legendary poison...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL  400-600 dps. Our assasin can do that with a good group setup on auto attack.

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>I'v managed to do 1200dps in PP and what surprised me eithen more was for that round I managed to out dps a Brigand for once.</P> <P>But apart from that one encounter Im doing between 600-900. it realy just depends on what we are fighting and such.</P>

[silentpsycho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=1934&jump=true#M1934<BR><BR>And you wonder why SOE is not looking at assassin,<BR><BR>When you have assassin saying we can hit 1k on Raid...<BR><BR>I am sorry, I am not the most uber assassin out there, <BR>but I honestly can see any assassin hitting 1k DPS on any T6 Yellow or Orange Mob. Maybe Lockjaw... didn't parse that one.<BR>On any real Raid, I think a right parse would be 400-600. Lower on 400 if the mob has multi-aoe. 600 if we can melee more and<BR>most of our big attack is up.<BR><BR>Anyone else parsed 1k - 1.4k DPS in raid?<BR><BR>MY AR is 1142<BR>STR is 350-400<BR>AGI is 350-400<BR>INT is 100-150<BR><BR>Use legendary poison...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL  400-600 dps. Our assasin can do that with a good group setup on auto attack. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Prove it.  Say how it's done, at least.  Or, are you pulling this out of the air, as usual?

[silentpsycho]

<P>" ... you can have 3 ..."</P> <P> </P> <P>Tried it, it doesn't work.  Can you send me a few gold to cover the cost of the legendary stifle poison that was overwritten? </P> <p>Message Edited by silentpsycho on <span class=date_text>12-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:30 AM</span>

[silentpsycho]

<DIV>How about well over 1.4K DPS, as <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=150208" target=_blank><SPAN>Poochymama p</SPAN></A> suggests in the same thread?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am feeling very non-uuber right now, because on most raids, I parse in at about 400-600 dps on average, well behind the casters and flingers...  What am I doing wrong?  I'm especially asking this of the guy cited as a guildee in the other threads who is apparently doing that with just auto-attack.  I've got to be missing something.  Really, I don't suck at this, I know how my CA's work...  Is there some combo/CA I'm missing that doubles or triples my usual stealth-deathly blade-assasinate-gore strike etc combo + auto attack?  should i not be using pristine imbued cobalt + primsatic?  WTFO?</DIV>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR> <DIV>How about well over 1.4K DPS, as <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=150208" target=_blank><SPAN>Poochymama p</SPAN></A> suggests in the same thread?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am feeling very non-uuber right now, because on most raids, I parse in at about 400-600 dps on average, well behind the casters and flingers...  What am I doing wrong?  I'm especially asking this of the guy cited as a guildee in the other threads who is apparently doing that with just auto-attack.  I've got to be missing something.  Really, I don't suck at this, I know how my CA's work...  Is there some combo/CA I'm missing that doubles or triples my usual stealth-deathly blade-assasinate-gore strike etc combo + auto attack?  should i not be using pristine imbued cobalt + primsatic?  WTFO?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No your probobly doing everything right. The reason assasins are able to reach 1k plus dps is because of group buffs. Get your self in a group that yields amazing haste and procs and you will be pumping out 1.2k dps + every fight.

[Cu]

<P>Since Silentpsycho is whining so hard in the damage tier thread on combat and encounters forum I decided to waste a good chunk of my life trying to figure out how to copy a parse from statalyzer to make it suitable for the boards. Unfortunately I failed <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> However, I decided to copy a fight into an empty .txt file so you guys can parse it for yourself and see that one of our assassins hits 1300 DPS in a 1 minute 10 fight. And this is not just a lucky shot, on pretty much all our raids our assassin is THE top DPS almost never under 1k DPS (I can post more logs if you guys really don't believe me). So if you're an assassin and you do 600 DPS on raids, something isn't right, and it's not your class cause other assassins can do it.</P> <P><A href="http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt" target=_blank>http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt</A></P>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cuva wrote:<BR> <P>Since Silentpsycho is whining so hard in the damage tier thread on combat and encounters forum I decided to waste a good chunk of my life trying to figure out how to copy a parse from statalyzer to make it suitable for the boards. Unfortunately I failed <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> However, I decided to copy a fight into an empty .txt file so you guys can parse it for yourself and see that one of our assassins hits 1300 DPS in a 1 minute 10 fight. And this is not just a lucky shot, on pretty much all our raids our assassin is THE top DPS almost never under 1k DPS (I can post more logs if you guys really don't believe me). So if you're an assassin and you do 600 DPS on raids, something isn't right, and it's not your class cause other assassins can do it.</P> <P><A href="http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt" target=_blank>http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt</A></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thank you for showing this.</P> <P>This is what I have been trying to get through to him but I have no idea how to post pictures or anything like that on to these forums. People have tried to explain it to me but I always end up with the little red x</P>

[Graton]

throwing dps numbers out there without some context of the group makeup and encounter is just ridiculous. if you're in a group that has no haste , strength or proc buffs then you are not going to be approaching 1000 dps. also if you're going all out and pushing dps to max without a troubador in your group you're going to wind up dead. it also really depends on the mob you're fighting - does it have an AOE? is it immune to certain types of dmg? does it have a memwipe and cause you to need to reposition? is it a mob you can't get behind and use direct rear attacks? <div></div>

[Cu]

Like I said, our assassin is top on every fight, usually #1, on mobs with big AEs our ranger beats him sometimes but on pretty much every other fight, the assassin is #1 DPS, or at least top 3. But sure, if your raid doesn't know how to form up groups or if the assassin doesn't know how to time attacks (dead assasin = [Removed for Content] DPS) then the assassin doesn't come out on top. Just saying that your class (along with rangers) have the most potential DPS. If somehow you're not coming out on top, then either you are doing something wrong or your raid is not configured as it should be, but there's nothing wrong with the assassin class at all.

[Graton]

the point  was about quoting specific numbers. i am usually in the top3 dps wise in the raids i attend and i agree we have good potential dps. however, saying x does 1000 dps or x does 600 dps means nothing when you don't know the situation. <div></div>

[silentpsycho]

... so, being in the "group of misfit classes" on raids isn't helping my DPS, I get that.  But how do I convince a raid leader to put me in the main DPS group or main melee group (where these DPS trippling buffs can be had, evidently) in a raid when they could have a wizard, ranger or rogue there instead?

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR>... so, being in the "group of misfit classes" on raids isn't helping my DPS, I get that.  But how do I convince a raid leader to put me in the main DPS group or main melee group (where these DPS trippling buffs can be had, evidently) in a raid when they could have a wizard, ranger or rogue there instead? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>A good idea would be to show them this thread. Why on earth would you give wizards all those good buffs?</P> <P>A wizard with those buffs will put out maybe 700 dps a wizard without them will put out about 650.</P> <P>Puting haste and proc buffs all over wizards does absolutely nothing. Why would you do that?</P> <P> </P> <P>If a wizard in a good group can put out 700 dps and an assasin in a good group could put out 1300 dps who would you put in the group?</P>

[Poochymama]

<DIV>The problem with wizards is they dont have any potential to be buffed at all besides upping their power. So basically it is a waste of a space to put them in a dps group because they dont get affected by that group at all. They will always do 600-800 dps no matter what group they are in. The only difference is they will be able to keep that dps up longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Meanwhile assasins/rangers (definately rangers) will do 600-800 dps by themselves in a crap group with no buffs, but once they get into those good groups like the wizard their dps skyrockets to 1300 +</DIV>

[Cu]

<DIV>Because assassins do the most DPS out of ALL classes when buffed properly. If your raid leader puts a wizard in the melee DPS group over an assassin he's freaking stupid. Anyway, I hope you believe now that assassins are able to put out 1300 DPS. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[silentpsycho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cuva wrote:<BR> <DIV>Because assassins do the most DPS out of ALL classes when buffed properly. If your raid leader puts a wizard in the melee DPS group over an assassin he's freaking stupid. Anyway, I hope you believe now that assassins are able to put out 1300 DPS. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't.  First, the link that you posted goes nowhere; the data isn't there.</P> <P>Even assuming the data *is* in fact valid, undoctored representation of what a single assasin was able to do in a single encounter with a particular group make-up, it's not representative of the class as a whole, even on raids.</P> <P>It definitely doesn't back up the claims that Assasins do that kind of damage on every fight in every situation, or much higher as <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=150208" target=_blank><SPAN>Poochymama p</SPAN></A> claims while pushing the "buff Wizard/nerf assasin" agenda in the Combat threads.</P> <DIV>I, for one, as an end-game raiding Assasin, can attest to the fact that the claimed DPS is not typical, and I'm doubtful it's repeatable.</DIV>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cuva wrote:<BR> <DIV>Because assassins do the most DPS out of ALL classes when buffed properly. If your raid leader puts a wizard in the melee DPS group over an assassin he's freaking stupid. Anyway, I hope you believe now that assassins are able to put out 1300 DPS. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't.  First, the link that you posted goes nowhere; the data isn't there.</P> <P>Even assuming the data *is* in fact valid, undoctored representation of what a single assasin was able to do in a single encounter with a particular group make-up, it's not representative of the class as a whole, even on raids.</P> <P>It definitely doesn't back up the claims that Assasins do that kind of damage on every fight in every situation, or much higher as <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=150208" target=_blank><SPAN>Poochymama p</SPAN></A> claims while pushing the "buff Wizard/nerf assasin" agenda in the Combat threads.</P> <DIV>I, for one, as an end-game raiding Assasin, can attest to the fact that the claimed DPS is not typical, and I'm doubtful it's repeatable.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its typical with a good group makeup. Maybe you should tell your raid leader that.</P> <P>Also I play an assasin he is higher lvl than my wizard so i dont want assasins nerfed. I just want wizards boosted to be on par with assasins. </P>

[silentpsycho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cuva wrote:<BR> <DIV>Because assassins do the most DPS out of ALL classes when buffed properly. If your raid leader puts a wizard in the melee DPS group over an assassin he's freaking stupid. Anyway, I hope you believe now that assassins are able to put out 1300 DPS. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't.  First, the link that you posted goes nowhere; the data isn't there.</P> <P>Even assuming the data *is* in fact valid, undoctored representation of what a single assasin was able to do in a single encounter with a particular group make-up, it's not representative of the class as a whole, even on raids.</P> <P>It definitely doesn't back up the claims that Assasins do that kind of damage on every fight in every situation, or much higher as <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=150208" target=_blank><SPAN>Poochymama p</SPAN></A> claims while pushing the "buff Wizard/nerf assasin" agenda in the Combat threads.</P> <DIV>I, for one, as an end-game raiding Assasin, can attest to the fact that the claimed DPS is not typical, and I'm doubtful it's repeatable.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its typical with a good group makeup. Maybe you should tell your raid leader that.</P> <P>Also I play an assasin he is higher lvl than my wizard so i dont want assasins nerfed. I just want wizards boosted to be on par with assasins. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I started analyzing the data - the link does work, but you have to read the "fine print" to find the file.  No biggy.</P> <P>First, Squeeeks, the "13K DPS" assasin (depending on what parser you use), got a bit of a late start - which helps DPS in the parser a bit.  Also, he has incredible luck - every single one of his big-hitting CA's was available in this particular battle.  Also, the luck continues, because somehow his abilities hit for more than max/potential damage.  For example, when he hit with Assasinate, he didn't just hit for a partially resisted 3k-5k damage as is typical on Epic X4 Raid mobs I encounter, he hit for double the listed max damage - 9,145 damage in one hit.  Deathly blade, which usually hits for 2k-4k (if that, on epic X4 raid mobs), hit for 5292.  Finishing blow was used, and hit for nearly 5k.  His auto attack DPS was, as expected with maximum buffing and haste, under 200 dps (not counting the "extra" dps of poison) - no where near the 600-800 DPS claimed; even with poison, it's still under 400.</P> <P>I think it's safe to summarize that yes, once in a blue moon, under ideal circumstances, assasins can put up good DPS.   However, to try to generalize this as typical assasin DPS would be greatly overstating the capabilities of the class.  And to claim that an assasin can do this "consitently on every fight" just isn't the truth.</P>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cuva wrote:<BR> <DIV>Because assassins do the most DPS out of ALL classes when buffed properly. If your raid leader puts a wizard in the melee DPS group over an assassin he's freaking stupid. Anyway, I hope you believe now that assassins are able to put out 1300 DPS. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't.  First, the link that you posted goes nowhere; the data isn't there.</P> <P>Even assuming the data *is* in fact valid, undoctored representation of what a single assasin was able to do in a single encounter with a particular group make-up, it's not representative of the class as a whole, even on raids.</P> <P>It definitely doesn't back up the claims that Assasins do that kind of damage on every fight in every situation, or much higher as <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=150208" target=_blank><SPAN>Poochymama p</SPAN></A> claims while pushing the "buff Wizard/nerf assasin" agenda in the Combat threads.</P> <DIV>I, for one, as an end-game raiding Assasin, can attest to the fact that the claimed DPS is not typical, and I'm doubtful it's repeatable.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its typical with a good group makeup. Maybe you should tell your raid leader that.</P> <P>Also I play an assasin he is higher lvl than my wizard so i dont want assasins nerfed. I just want wizards boosted to be on par with assasins. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I started analyzing the data - the link does work, but you have to read the "fine print" to find the file.  No biggy.</P> <P>First, Squeeeks, the "13K DPS" assasin (depending on what parser you use), got a bit of a late start - which helps DPS in the parser a bit.  Also, he has incredible luck - every single one of his big-hitting CA's was available in this particular battle.  Also, the luck continues, because somehow his abilities hit for more than max/potential damage.  For example, when he hit with Assasinate, he didn't just hit for a partially resisted 3k-5k damage as is typical on Epic X4 Raid mobs I encounter, he hit for double the listed max damage - 9,145 damage in one hit. <FONT color=#ff0000>Exactly!!! are you starting to understand now? With a good group 9k hits are the norm. I have even seen 11k hits.</FONT> Deathly blade, which usually hits for 2k-4k (if that, on epic X4 raid mobs), hit for 5292. <FONT color=#ff0000>Again this is proving that with good group buffs amazing things happen.</FONT>  Finishing blow was used, and hit for nearly 5k.  His auto attack DPS was, as expected with maximum buffing and haste, under 200 dps (not counting the "extra" dps of poison) <FONT color=#ff0000>When I was talking about those 300-400 auto attack dmg i was considering poison because it cost 0 power just like auto attack</FONT>- no where near the 600-800 DPS claimed; even with poison, it's still under 400. <FONT color=#ff0000>You like to exaggerate dont you. I claimed our assasin can put out 400 auto attack dps (including poison)</FONT></P> <P>I think it's safe to summarize that yes, once in a blue moon, under ideal circumstances, assasins can put up good DPS.   However, to try to generalize this as typical assasin DPS would be greatly overstating the capabilities of the class.  And to claim that an assasin can do this "consitently on every fight" just isn't the truth.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually most parsers start parsing from the moment the fight starts (not when you start fighting) so holding back till the end will [Removed for Content] your dps horribly. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also assasinate and deathly blade together only accounted for 206 DPS. So without those skills he still did 1100 DPS.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Poochymama p on <span class=date_text>12-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:43 PM</span>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cuva wrote:<BR> <DIV>Because assassins do the most DPS out of ALL classes when buffed properly. If your raid leader puts a wizard in the melee DPS group over an assassin he's freaking stupid. Anyway, I hope you believe now that assassins are able to put out 1300 DPS. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't.  First, the link that you posted goes nowhere; the data isn't there.</P> <P>Even assuming the data *is* in fact valid, undoctored representation of what a single assasin was able to do in a single encounter with a particular group make-up, it's not representative of the class as a whole, even on raids.</P> <P>It definitely doesn't back up the claims that Assasins do that kind of damage on every fight in every situation, or much higher as <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=150208" target=_blank><SPAN>Poochymama p</SPAN></A> claims while pushing the "buff Wizard/nerf assasin" agenda in the Combat threads.</P> <DIV>I, for one, as an end-game raiding Assasin, can attest to the fact that the claimed DPS is not typical, and I'm doubtful it's repeatable.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its typical with a good group makeup. Maybe you should tell your raid leader that.</P> <P>Also I play an assasin he is higher lvl than my wizard so i dont want assasins nerfed. I just want wizards boosted to be on par with assasins.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I started analyzing the data - the link does work, but you have to read the "fine print" to find the file.  No biggy.</P> <P>First, Squeeeks, the "13K DPS" assasin (depending on what parser you use), got a bit of a late start - which helps DPS in the parser a bit.  Also, he has incredible luck - every single one of his big-hitting CA's was available in this particular battle.  Also, the luck continues, because somehow his abilities hit for more than max/potential damage.  For example, when he hit with Assasinate, he didn't just hit for a partially resisted 3k-5k damage as is typical on Epic X4 Raid mobs I encounter, he hit for double the listed max damage - 9,145 damage in one hit. <FONT color=#ff0000>Exactly!!! are you starting to understand now? With a good group 9k hits are the norm. I have even seen 11k hits.</FONT> Deathly blade, which usually hits for 2k-4k (if that, on epic X4 raid mobs), hit for 5292. <FONT color=#ff0000>Again this is proving that with good group buffs amazing things happen.</FONT>  Finishing blow was used, and hit for nearly 5k.  His auto attack DPS was, as expected with maximum buffing and haste, under 200 dps (not counting the "extra" dps of poison) <FONT color=#ff0000>When I was talking about those 300-400 auto attack dmg i was considering poison because it cost 0 power just like auto attack</FONT>- no where near the 600-800 DPS claimed; even with poison, it's still under 400. <FONT color=#ff0000>You like to exaggerate dont you. I claimed our assasin can put out 400 auto attack dps (including poison)</FONT></P> <P>I think it's safe to summarize that yes, once in a blue moon, under ideal circumstances, assasins can put up good DPS.   However, to try to generalize this as typical assasin DPS would be greatly overstating the capabilities of the class.  And to claim that an assasin can do this "consitently on every fight" just isn't the truth.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually most parsers start parsing from the moment the fight starts (not when you start fighting) so holding back till the end will [Removed for Content] your dps horribly. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I consider auto attack dmg  all the dmg you can do while eating a sandwich and pressing 0 skills. In this sense he actually did 39498 points of dmg useing 0 CA. He did 39,498 dmg in 70 sec.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>39,498/70 = 564.25 DPS that could be done while eating a sandwich and watching tv in another room.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By comparison their Wizard Glenolias inflicted 50,383 dmg in 70 sec. 50,383/70 = 719.76 DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the wizard using power vs the assasin using 0 power would look like this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizard = 719</DIV> <DIV>Assasin = 564</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With both of them using all their CA it would look like this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizard = 719</DIV> <DIV>Assasin = 1372</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now the assasin without using Assasinate or Deathly Blade</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizard = 719</DIV> <DIV>Assasin = 1166</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem really isnt wizards dps that much its their inability to be buffed to double their normal dps. If you compare a wizard to an assasin in a group scenario with no haste/dps/proc buffs they will be very close. But once all the buffs are added the assasins dps doubles and the wizards dps maybe goes up 50 points.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Poochymama p on <span class=date_text>12-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:23 PM</span>

[Gorhauth]

<span><blockquote><hr>Poochymama p wrote:<div></div>Actually most parsers start parsing from the moment the fight starts (not when you start fighting) so holding back till the end will [Removed for Content] your dps horribly. <hr></blockquote>Statalyzer doesn't.  It doesn't count DPS until the person starts attacking.  That was one of the biggest faults with it.</span><div></div>

[Skratttt]

<P>Lol ^^ exactly BTW post lu 18 i doubt you can reproduce the effects of the "perfect" group on assassins (but rangers still do their dps, bahahaha).....since all the allways proc buffs will no longer proc from offhand Basically halving that dps.....</P>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gorhauth wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote:<BR> <BR>Actually most parsers start parsing from the moment the fight starts (not when you start fighting) so holding back till the end will [Removed for Content] your dps horribly.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Statalyzer doesn't.  It doesn't count DPS until the person starts attacking.  That was one of the biggest faults with it.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Even if the assasin got a later start the wizard still got a much later start then the assasin

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skratttt wrote:<BR> <P>Lol ^^ exactly BTW post lu 18 i doubt you can reproduce the effects of the "perfect" group on assassins (but rangers still do their dps, bahahaha).....since all the allways proc buffs will no longer proc from offhand Basically halving that dps.....</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This parse was taken after live update 18

[silentpsycho]

FWIW, the parse appears to have been taken on 12/19/05.

[Carna]

The whole "we suck" thing is starting to look a bit odd in light of this thread.

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Carnagh wrote:<BR>The whole "we suck" thing is starting to look a bit odd in light of this thread. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because we dont suck. We are very very good dps. Were just not as good as rangers.

[Cu]

<DIV>Yes, the parse is from a week ago, after the LU. And on the next named (Krathuk the Golden) our assassin did 1200 DPS while Assassinate and DB weren't up so /shrug. Anyways, we're having a raiding hiatus now for a bit cause of christmas but next time we do gates or court (I'd love to put up the parse from Fountain of Life but not allowed to <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) I'll put the parse of the entire trip up so there won't be no more 'once in a blue moon' talk and you'll see he does tier1 damage every fight <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[judged_one]

<DIV>Would you stop u bs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassin doesn't do 1.3 k dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play an assassin and parse it properly.</DIV> <DIV>the rite amount will be 500-700 on t6 raid, and that is on the high side</DIV> <DIV>300-500 with Jousting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rangers and Conjuror Necro can do more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You assassin can not survive Krathuk WoF and AoE so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], and stop bsing the crowd.</DIV> <DIV>Yeah and ur Wizard does 6k DPS too we parsed it [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]  is wrong with U, nOOb wizard..blah blah blah</DIV>

[Skratttt]

^^^ bwahahah pwnd

[Cu]

<DIV>meh, or you learn to read, I said Krathuk the Golden which is a rather [Removed for Content] mob in Poet's Palace the Return and doesn't even go berserk <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but then again, I'm pretty sure you have no clue about PP: return if your assassin only does 500-700 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR> <DIV>Would you stop u bs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassin doesn't do 1.3 k dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play an assassin and parse it properly.</DIV> <DIV>the rite amount will be 500-700 on t6 raid, and that is on the high side</DIV> <DIV>300-500 with Jousting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rangers and Conjuror Necro can do more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You assassin can not survive Krathuk WoF and AoE so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], and stop bsing the crowd.</DIV> <DIV>Yeah and ur Wizard does 6k DPS too we parsed it [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]  is wrong with U, nOOb wizard..blah blah blah</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Umm ok there is a parse in your own forum showing an assasin doing 1166 DPS, and 1372 DPS using Assasinate and Deathly Blade.</P> <P>Maybe you should look at the parse (parses dont lie) before you spout off nonsense like this.</P>

[Kokus]

<DIV>It's obvious <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=100869" target=_blank><SPAN>judged_one</SPAN></A>  has not been far into poet's palace: the return.  The mob he was referring to was Kra'thuk the golden in that zone, not that level 50ish contested mob in Everfrost.  As for the original Kra'thuk, yeah, he has WoF, yeah, he has an AE, can a 60 assassin stay in on that? sure. No problem.  At level 50?  Well.. I wouldn't advise it.  But that's besides the point anyways, they were talking about the raid mob in PP2 where you kinda just walk up and kill him, and sure, fights like that assassins really shine.</DIV>

[Carna]

<EM>"fights like that assassins really shine"</EM> ... and by shine you mean deliver <STRONG>twice</STRONG> the dps of a Rogue?

[DrMelee]

<div></div>Well it turned into another "We got good dps, We don't have good dps" thread quickly. Lets try to get back on the subject of the raid mobs aoe's. For instance lets take a look at Akhet Aken and some of its bosses AOE's. Sure we can step back and use our whole 4 ranged attacks and avoid the mobs aoe, thus lowering our dps, but I for one did not play an assassin to use ranged attacks all the time. Its just insane, that I can be fighting right next to a brigand, a swashy and a bruiser, we all have roughtly the same stats and resists, be in the same dps group with them, and when the raid mob hits his aoe, regardless whether its poison, heat, cold, I die almost instatly, in the very bowels of the red health zone, when the rest are still in the green, except for maybe the bruiser, which would be in the yellow. Of course this leaves me no course but to retreat, and wait for a heal, or a badger/spirit type heal from a Mystic/Defiler. Sure some may say, "Well why don't your group's healer keep you alive or toss you a heal", well they cant when they are spam healing the MT or the Off-Tank outside our group, that is thier first priority. Death is not a big issue to me, but going through three sets of armor, compared to the brigand going through one, is a big deal. Now I dont want to sound like I got brigand envy here, I am just using him as an example and icon for close melee classes in general. Oh, did I forget to mention that some of the mobs in there are piercing resists, and ranged attacks do nothing. Sure, I can start timing the aoe and using the jousting style attack, but the point is, why do we have to be the only class doing this style of fighting. I think SOE should throw us a bone here, not a big one, just something to help our AoE resists out. Although I know they wont, look at how long it took them to balance the healer classes out, and some say they are still not "truely" balanced. well I am off to try my luck at harvesting a couple of more cobalts, so I can get another set of backup weapons made. Oh yea this will be my third set. Ok, fire at will! <div></div><p>Message Edited by DrMelee on <span class=date_text>12-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:27 AM</span>

[Kokus]

<P>Suggestion:  Go really hardcore on your choice for resist gear. </P> <P>For instance, at 9355 heat resist, Sunchild's AE hit me for only 1069 damage.  Think about it.</P>

[DrMelee]

Well, Sunchild is in the Court of Al'Afaz, and I did not have much trouble with her. Just curious what damage you took from Moonchild, since its cold damage. Pretty good on your heat resists though, did you have a Warden in your group for thier buff? I use legendary potions for better resists, have several sets of gear with all different types of resists, to prepare me for what ever SOE throws at me. I have thought about it! Point is, you can be standing next to similar melee fighters, with nearly the same resists, sta, str, agi, and it will be the assassin that will bite the dust first. I am not talking about pulling aggro from the tank either, I am talking about pure AOE, no matter what type it is. Rangers can stand back a blast away along with all the other caster classes. Brigands evidently can resist different AOE's like Astyr first pointed out. So what I guess we are left with, is a hefty mender bill, and giving the Dirges and Paly's a work out on the rezes. <div></div>

[MystaSkrat]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR> <DIV>Would you stop u bs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassin doesn't do 1.3 k dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play an assassin and parse it properly.</DIV> <DIV>the rite amount will be 500-700 on t6 raid, and that is on the high side</DIV> <DIV>300-500 with Jousting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><A href="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/1kdps.jpg" target=_blank>http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/1kdps.jpg</A></P> <P><A href="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/consistant1kdps-.jpg" target=_blank>http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/consistant1kdps-.jpg</A></P> <P>Better think about that again :smileytongue:  And the temple defenders you kinda do have to joust, with dooming depths and all.  No Fury, Zerker, or Dirge in the group either, and notice on the one that's showing, there's no deathly blade or assassinate... not sure how you see 5-700 as the "right amount"</P> <P>The second one I just added to show that it's possible to get near or over 1k dps on your average Silent City stuff, and this is without a perfect group.</P><p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class=date_text>01-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:47 AM</span>

[Kokus]

<DIV>I'm pretty sure I had some 1k+ dps parses from PPtR that I was throwing up in the assassin channel the other day.. It's very doable.  And that was against the groups of 4 minotuars and their insane amounts of hit points.</DIV>

[DonSavan]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR> <P>" ... you can have 3 ..."</P> <P> </P> <P>Tried it, it doesn't work.  Can you send me a few gold to cover the cost of the legendary stifle poison that was overwritten? </P> <P>Message Edited by silentpsycho on <SPAN class=date_text>12-24-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:30 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>it would help if you stated what other poisons you are using, cause I can assure you, you can have 3 poisons up at the same time.  I do it all the time, 1damage 1debuff 1 stun poison when im doing hard non raid stuff, 1damage, 1debuff, 1lower attack speed when raiding</DIV>

[judged_one]

YES... Misread the mobAnd I think it is Prism not PPTR...or one or the other... but it is the one that needs the music box not the shimmering ring thingy...And no we don't pull 1 k DPS.Check your parser, I was doing 1.3k on ACT... in reality on 2 different parsers it is more like 800-850.While Ranger got up to 1.6k on ACT.Do a relative check on a ranger and conjuror and you will see all is not well...

[judged_one]

Mystaskratch ... A temple protector is not a raid mob... SC x4 is a joke....I can stand there and wheck the crap out of a lion, mummies and protectors...And guess what I can do 850+ too on that crap.So Where is the parse with Goliathian, the hand of Godking, Anket, or any mob with a real AoE???The temple protector aoe(cold I think) is frontal, so I don't even have to move.Guess you werent doing that well. Also judging from 6.6k finishing blow the mob is severly debuffed..which means the DPS is inflated overall to all the DPS classes.Also post a comparative parse of a ranger and conjuror on the same fight.

[MystaSkrat]

Your responses in this thread are idiotic, give me a real reason to respond, and maybe I will.  You said we can't do 1k+ dps (you specified nothing), i showed you we can, and your innane comeback is "well, those aren't raid mobs".   Whatever, tool.  Learn how to play your class or go find another game.

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MystaSkratch wrote:<BR>Your responses in this thread are idiotic, give me a real reason to respond, and maybe I will.  You said we can't do 1k+ dps (you specified nothing), i showed you we can, and your innane comeback is "well, those aren't raid mobs".   Whatever, tool.  Learn how to play your class or go find another game. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I wouldnt let him get to you. He just doesnt understand:smileysad:

[judged_one]

Why dont you post you DPS on Goliathian... Why notMysta people like you posting lame parse trying to make yourself look good.The fact is Assassin is not tier 1 comparable to Ranger.FACE THAT FACT.And at any given fight Necro Conjuror and Swashy have no problem coming close to our DPS...You can call me noob, tool or anything you want.By the reason I post is to improve the assassin class,not to prove that I am L33t uber hardCo133 players.If you think assassin is great then good for you, but one day you may stop looking at you [Removed for Content] up 19 second 2k parse long enough to realize thatyour as s is not in a raid, cause a rangers can out dps U, and Necro, conjuror and swashy have way more debuff and buff to offersSo when they nerf assassin again, Don't ever post and cry about it.<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class=date_text>01-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 AM</span>

[judged_one]

<blockquote><hr>Kokusho wrote:<P>Suggestion:  Go really hardcore on your choice for resist gear. </P> <P>For instance, at 9355 heat resist, Sunchild's AE hit me for only 1069 damage.  Think about it.</P> <hr></blockquote>Resist is capped at about 6k I think...One tank with 5.4k got hit with 3-4k dmg...9355 - 1.3k base resist heat (For me)=8k/14 slots = 571 heat resists per slot...I don't know I havent seen any 571 heat resist necklace around too much.<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class=date_text>01-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:12 AM</span>

[Kokus]

<P>Resists are a funny thing.</P> <P>You get to the 80% vs. a level 60 at around 5k of a resist.</P> <P>So if you want to get to the 'cap' vs. a level 64, then you'll probably want closer to 6k.</P> <P>However, Orange con mobs ignore a specific amount of mitigation.  So reach the theoretic 'cap' for resist when fighting an orange con mob, you're going to want to get to around 10k.</P>

[Kokus]

<DIV>571 heat resist necklace? <A href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/AmuletoftheSwordofRo.php" target=_blank>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/AmuletoftheSwordofRo.php</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But yes, i was buffed up when at 9355 heat resist.  I can get to about 6500 heat resist currently through gear alone.  Maybe a bit closer to 7k now.</DIV>

[KapHn8d]

<P>it's funny, but it seems I get more excited by a really nice piece of resist gear than the t6 fabled I've seen... resists are the key.</P> <P> </P> <P>as for the DPS thing, there are a lot of variables that go into the numbers obviously... buffs, debuffs, flavor of the mob... but of all the parses I've seen of myself, I've only parsed over 1k dps a handful of times when things were "just right"... our rangers so it regularly. I'm pretty happy with the progress that's been made to our class in the last couple of months... even if it's slow going... but the fact of the matter is, for dps 99% of the time, rangers > assassins... it's not so much about the number but the relative number...</P> <P>yeah, an assassin may parse 600dps... but a ranger of equal skill will parse 800 or 900 on the same fight</P> <P>yeah, an assassin may parse 1100dps... but a ranger of equal skill will parse 1500+ on the same fight</P> <P>I am not whining, so don't even go there... I dig the sheet out of playing my toon and I don't plan on stopping playing an assassin anytime soon. Facts are facts and we are factually a tier below rangers in dps.</P> <P> </P> <P>Hrm... I realize that isn't really what the thread/OP was talking about but I'm all hopped up on flu medicine and am starring in a Nyquil commercial later this afternoon :smileywink: so sorry about the digression. I'm too lazy to retype it since I did say something about my dps in there... just ignore the other stuff.</P> <P> </P> <P>happy new year btw...</P> <P> </P>

[Kokus]

<DIV>Indeed.  I'm more than happy to spend a few raid points on great resist gear, than alot of points on some item with insanely high strength, and very little resists.</DIV>

[KapHn8d]

<P>holy smokes... I must have gotten lost in the thread, because I just re-read the original post... hrm</P> <P>in all the T6 content that I consider to be challenging today (4th lvl PPtR, BlackQueen, etc.), I feel we, as assassins, are extremely viable assetts to raid success. Good resist gear and a wel balanced team of skilled players will ensure you parse out near the top of even the nastiest of AoE encounters.</P> <P>Just disregard that previous post. I need sleep.</P> <P> </P>

[judged_one]

Resist is good but...Our MT with 6k + resist can take upward of 3k per aoe.Most aoe is 30 sec to 1 min.No matter what resist U have unless you have a healer healing you,you can't be in range hecking at it.Not to mention most of the mob has a aoe stun and some with 2 aoe(2 types)No guild would or should need to heal a DPS constantly.And it is a lot more efficent to have rangers or Brignad then assassin on raid.If there is 1 spot left and we are fighting a hard mob with 2 aoesYou will go with a ranger or summoner or Brigand.

[Kokus]

<div></div>I'm sorry you don't have the resists to take AEs, and I'm sorry that your guild does not want to assign 1 warden to heal the dps classes.  I'm sorry you don't deal damage, and I'm sorry that you chose the assassin class.

[pczry]

<div></div>lol elvaan, this the second thread i read seeing you apologize to people, you ok buddy? ;p

[Kokus]

<div>Heh.. I'm ok. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[stelle]

<div></div><p>lol i think elvann feels the same way about his class and other people that play it as i do about my class and the other people that play guardians</p><p> </p><p>Oasis-Slayve</p>

[judged_one]

I am sorry that you are an elite SOB.And no our raid healers dont focus their healing on DPS.I am sorry that you think your assassin is fine and doing 1k on real raidI am sorry that you live in a sad state of denial, and that a ranger will be picked over you in a raid anytime

[Kokus]

<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div><hr></div><div>I am sorry that you are an elite SOB.</div><div>And no our raid healers dont focus their healing on DPS.I am sorry that you think your assassin is fine and doing 1k on real raidI am sorry that you live in a sad state of denial, and that a ranger will be picked over you in a raid anytime<hr></div></blockquote><p>Elite SOB? Sure, why not.</p><p>Yeah, unfortunately most healers in this game don't comprehend that there is a way to change targets.</p><p>Don't have to think, Have other guildies that parse as much, and not just 1k, upwards of 1300dps on pp2 trash mobs btw.</p><p>Hasn't happened yet.  Tell you what, you wait here, and I'll let you know when that happens.. but.. uh.. don't hold your breath.. err.. wait.. maybe you should.</p>

[MystaSkrat]

<div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:I am sorry that you are an elite SOB.And no our raid healers dont focus their healing on DPS.I am sorry that you think your assassin is fine and doing 1k on real raidI am sorry that you live in a sad state of denial, and that a ranger will be picked over you in a raid anytime<hr></blockquote>According to you, nothing is a real raid it seems.  BTW, I'm in a tight knit raid guild, I always have a spot.  If i wasn't pulling my weight, I'd be kicked, guess I'm doing something right.  And any healer who can't throw a heal to a dps that needs it doesn't care about winning that battle too much....</div>

[judged_one]

Unless you consider PPTR-Trash mob is your raid...I have a spot on my guild, but the point is assassins as a whole is not.Instead of more self-glorification on how uber you are and doing 1k on a SCx4 raid,Do me a favour and look at your DPS on the toughter stuff...Think about why assassin, conjuror, swashy, brigand DPS.How could they be so close, when the utilies factor is so far apart.How could 2 suppose same tier DPS class (Ranger + Assassin) is so far apart (200DPSish)Think about how much CA is useless and not working as intented.And to let you in on a little secret, I am top DPS too in my guild.I can hit 1k too on trash mob like SCx4 or trash mob on PPTR...yeah doing 2 aoe 1200+500 on like 30 mobs will ge you a pretty good dps...our warlock pulled around 3k DPS... do you see him posting that.But when it really matters (PPTR, Prism, PoS) Assassin means jack.Now continue to tell us how awesome your assassins are !Just remember this when they nerf again.

[Kokus]

<div></div><p>I think the whole thing here is... People say assassins can't pull 1k+ dps on raids.  I can honestly tell you that it is possible. HOWEVER, when fighting an orange con named mob, where everyone's dps is significantly reduced.. will I do 1k+ dps? OF COURSE NOT!  BUT! You know what? Screw dps.  The only thing that really matters on these parses is that at the end of nearly every single epic fight I parse, 1 person is at the top of the raid for the most damage dealt in the encounter.  Be it a 20 second fight, or 8 minutes with Jura'Nata.  1 person, Elvannshalee.</p>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:Unless you consider PPTR-Trash mob is your raid...I have a spot on my guild, but the point is assassins as a whole is not.Instead of more self-glorification on how uber you are and doing 1k on a SCx4 raid,Do me a favour and look at your DPS on the toughter stuff...Think about why assassin, conjuror, swashy, brigand DPS.How could they be so close, when the utilies factor is so far apart.How could 2 suppose same tier DPS class (Ranger + Assassin) is so far apart (200DPSish)Think about how much CA is useless and not working as intented.And to let you in on a little secret, I am top DPS too in my guild.I can hit 1k too on trash mob like SCx4 or trash mob on PPTR...yeah doing 2 aoe 1200+500 on like 30 mobs will ge you a pretty good dps...our warlock pulled around 3k DPS... do you see him posting that.But when it really matters (PPTR, Prism, PoS) Assassin means jack.Now continue to tell us how awesome your assassins are !Just remember this when they nerf again.<hr></blockquote><p>Trying to talk with you is like trying to talk to a brick wall lol Good day :smileyhappy:</p><p> </p><p>-edit- On second thought, a) they might be trash mobs, but it was still 90 - 120+ second fights, on 3-5 mobs, not the raiders b) why are you complaining if you are "the top DPS too in your guild"? and c) saying that your dps isn't good enough on orange mobs is absolutely ludicrous :smileyhappy: orange mobs are supposed to = hard.  I've never said i think we're perfect (i don't), but all you <em>ever</em> do is complain, not sure I've ever heard a positive comment in any of your posts.  Oh, and our AoEs only hit 8 targets max (not 30), good to see you know your class as well as you claim.</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class="date_text">01-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:22 PM</span></p>

[judged_one]

Trying to talk with you is like trying to talk to a brick wall lol Good dayNah a brick wall will just sit there and listen to your egotistic bauble.Stop changing your story. You post the 1k DPS to prove how awesome you are,even your guildie is saying in the forum how you think your assassin is Godafter pulling 1k DPS.Well I hope you are mightily proud, and that SOE will stop fixing us.Cause Recon is gone now, which means we won't even have our pathetic 15% hate reducer.And I am so sure that they will also add a tank in your DPS group to let you sink some hate.Cause according to you, the raid is tailored to the ASSASSIN.I wonder who is the Ranger at you guild, and what they are saying about the Uber ASSASSIN.

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:Cause Recon is gone now, which means we won't even have our pathetic 15% hate reducer.And I am so sure that they will also add a tank in your DPS group to let you sink some hate.Cause according to you, the raid is tailored to the ASSASSIN.<hr></blockquote>Smart assassins use a troubador  :smileyhappy:  I've yet to see a guild mate of mine post in these forums, please point out his post for me.  It's not like we're the only class that can put out 1k dps, but you made several posts complaining about how it's impossible, and I was just showing you that it is possible.  If SoE looks at <em>just</em> my character, out of the 500,000+ that are made, and decides that we're fine, I'll personally come here and apologize to you.  And if you want to talk to our ranger, /t Nektulos.Axkiva anytime, I'm sure he'd have plenty to say to you.<p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class="date_text">01-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:41 PM</span></p>

[Graton]

<span><blockquote><hr>MystaSkratch wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:Cause Recon is gone now, which means we won't even have our pathetic 15% hate reducer.And I am so sure that they will also add a tank in your DPS group to let you sink some hate.Cause according to you, the raid is tailored to the ASSASSIN.<hr></blockquote>Smart assassins use a troubador  :smileyhappy:  I've yet to see a guild mate of mine post in these forums, please point out his post for me.  It's not like we're the only class that can put out 1k dps, but you made several posts complaining about how it's impossible, and I was just showing you that it is possible.  If SoE looks at <em>just</em> my character, out of the 500,000+ that are made, and decides that we're fine, I'll personally come here and apologize to you.  And if you want to talk to our ranger, /t Nektulos.Axkiva anytime, I'm sure he'd have plenty to say to you.<p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class="date_text">01-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:41 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>there's only one troub on raids in my guild. he's in the MT group nearly all the time. sure wish i was smart and there was another around to use as an aggro sink. seriously man, hate transfer is ridiculously limiting. i'm lucky enough to usually have an extra guardian around that i can group with but that's not smart man, that's fortunate. there's a big difference. the transfer either needs to be made raid wide or we need to replace murderous designs with a deaggro buff like the old recon.</span><div></div>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div>I see your guild has both a dirge and a coercer.  Now, it's none of my business really, but there's no reason they shouldn't be in the MT group, and the troub in the dps group.  Dirges and coercers add hate, and troubs take it away.  I guess it's not smart assassins I meant to say, but people (leaders) who put together a raid to smartly manage agro :smileyhappy:  I 100% agree the transfer needs to be raid wide, but I've never heard a good idea of what to do with say, 3 assassins putting transfer on one target.  Do they all get reduced effectiveness or does just one work?  Hate reducer is definately the way to go, it's too bad not everyone sees it that way.

[Amise]

Murderous Design doesn't stack with itself, so you can't have more than one assassin cast it on the same target (they just overwrite each other).  However it works quite well if you have one person cast it on MT, then the second casts it on the first, and so on, like a chaining effect.  It's not a perfect system and you get agro hiccups sometimes but it's better than not being able to use it at all.  <div></div>

[Tideri]

<div>I'm a lowbie Assassin, but I think a solution might be some sort of avoidance bonus vs AOE.  I sure don't know the system like some, but I'm pretty sure this wouldn't break the mechanics of the game and it makes sense, we're fast and dexterous.</div>

[judged_one]

Rite MystaI guess your raid must consist of 48 people.Dirge and Troub buff differently.So it is not uncommon to have Troub in MT when their buffs are needed.And You don't always have a Coercer in MT too, cause Dirge and Troub have regen, and if not better regen.Most MT group is Hvy plate healer, druid or shaman(depends on buff), Knight, Dirge Trob or Conjuror or Warlock.And most raid we only bring 1 troub 1 dirge and 1 coercer.And MD doesnt stack...And people leading raid worry about MT staying alive, not about how assassin can keep aggro.And at a real raid, you are expected to keep you aggro in check until burn is issued...Which means no showing off your 1k DPS...But of course Mysta assassin can do 1.3k and have a Troub, Guardian and Pally all deaggroing him, while being solo buffed by Fury blood lust and Zerker str buff, and warlock and Troub damage proc. And Also he must have a Templar putting solo reactive and Mystic warding him so he can stay in on the aoe. And his uber 6k resist...

[Kokus]

<div>Awwww... someone wants attention from his guild...</div>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>He needs attention from somebody... I would suggest a therapist first.</p><p></p><hr><p>Judged_one wrote:</p><p>Rite MystaI guess your raid must consist of 48 people.  <em>Nope, we don't have 150+ people in our guild like yours :smileyhappy:</em>Dirge and Troub buff differently.  <em>Thanks for the newsflash</em>So it is not uncommon to have Troub in MT when their buffs are needed.  <em>It is for us, we've NEVER put a troub in the MT group.  Please tell me how to raid better, we sure need it!</em>And You don't always have a Coercer in MT too <em>Yes, we do.  100% of the time, there is a coercer in the MT group.  </em></p><p>cause Dirge and Troub have regen, and if not better regen.  <em>Dirge and troub regen doesn't stack with itself, chanter and bard regen does, research FTW </em>Most MT group is Hvy plate healer, druid or shaman(depends on buff), Knight, Dirge Trob or Conjuror or Warlock.And most raid we only bring 1 troub 1 dirge and 1 coercer.  <em>I don't really care about your MT makeup, we do just fine, I'll say better even, than you guys do with our setup, thanks</em>And MD doesnt stack...  <em>Never said it did, reading comprehension FTW</em>And people leading raid worry about MT staying alive, not about how assassin can keep aggro.  <em>No, a smart raid tries to maximize the dps, but I'm not about to try to explain the basics of raiding to you</em>And at a real raid, you are expected to keep you aggro in check until burn is issued...Which means no showing off your 1k DPS...  <em>Again, I'm not in the habit of worrying about what your guild does.  You can't claim something to be fact just because that's what you guys do.</em>But of course Mysta assassin can do 1.3k and have a Troub, Guardian and Pally all deaggroing him, while being solo buffed by Fury blood lust and Zerker str buff, and warlock and Troub damage proc. And Also he must have a Templar putting solo reactive and Mystic warding him so he can stay in on the aoe. And his uber 6k resist... <em>Ok, first off, anyone putting a guardian in a dps group needs to be shot.  And since you are oh-so-knowledgeable about buffs, please tell me the name of the troub damage proc that works on melee attacks, I'm dying to know.  Anyone with some common sense can either a) joust the AE or b) get some resist gear, you don't need a healer at all.  I know you love to come on here and complain.  But seriously, just because you either can't play your class, or your raid can't put together groups that suit you, doesn't mean you have to take it out on me.   But if it makes you feel better, go ahead, petty insults roll right off me :smileyhappy:</em></p><p></p><hr><p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:57 PM</span></p>

[judged_one]

LOLFirst of all that guy wasn't even in my guild.Second of all, find a better personal attack then some retart flaming my guild.Lastly I don;t post how awesome I am ever,I post assassin's problem and trying to get a fix.But thanks for trying!Makes me feel sort of important, at least this is better then paying attention at work.<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:35 AM</span></p>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div>I actually gave your guild grats in that post, you momo.  "Retarts" wouldn't flame your guild if you guys didn't make crazy claims to worldwide firsts that noone can prove.  :smileyhappy:

[dparker7]

<div></div>At this point, we're pretty good DPS, but there is no contest for number 1.  Rangers currently are just too powerful and need to be brought back inline with the other classes.  So, its better to use Rangers and other ranged DPS or a brigand.  About the only DPS class we might be preferred over is a swashie.

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dparker713 wrote:<div></div>Rangers currently are just too powerful and need to be brought back inline with the other classes. <hr></blockquote>OMG if a ranger sees this post you're so dead (or, at the very least, flamed) :smileytongue:

[Poochymama]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dparker713 wrote:<div></div>At this point, we're pretty good DPS, but there is no contest for number 1.  Rangers currently are just too powerful and need to be brought back inline with the other classes.  So, its better to use Rangers and other ranged DPS or a brigand.  About the only DPS class we might be preferred over is a swashie.<hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ffffff">Yeah rangers are best DPS in the game atm in pretty much all situations. Assasins are pretty good though. I prefer assasins over everybody but rangers on single target DPS.</font></p><p>There is quite a few classes that would be less desired as a dps class. Brigands,Swashies,Wizards,Warlocks, and maybe Conjurors and Necros on single target fights.</p>