State of the Assassin - Post LU16

[Endosh]

<DIV>I thought I would start a new thread so that we can post updates and information on the LU 16 changes to the assassin class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A lot of assassins are unhappy with the state we are in and for good reason but there are some things that can be viewed as positive with our changes. We need to continue to post feedback on these boards so that the developers will hopefully see our side of things. Lets try and keep the feedback constructive and maybe we will have some quality changes to our class. I think with some fine tuning in the right areas we will become satisfied with our class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of the areas I feel need serious attention are our recast times on our extreme damage CA's (Deathly Blade, Assassinate, Gorestrike), these should be reduced. Another area I feel that needs to be adjusted is the positional requirement and positional effectiveness of some of our CA's (Crippling Strike, Spitting Asp, Massacre). Our stealth needs to be revamped entirely. I agree with the concept but stealth should be an innate ability and should not be interrupted. Also the idea of having to stealth to execute an attack after a mob has been engaged is silly. I like the Apply Poison utility for the most part but in reality we as assassins should be applying that poison to ourselves making it our own special poison proc, this would help with the DPS issue. I would like to see one of our ranged attacks have a stun/stifle or blind type of effect. This would make up for our geneal lack of stunning ability and would be a unique CA. All scouts can use poison equally which makes no sense when referring to the assassin. We should have the foremost ability to use unique poisons to all other scout classes just as rangers should be the best with bows or special arrows etc. Concealment is a neat toy but it is really very inefficient with regards to coordinating recast times, I rarely use this CA. Scrap this ability and try again please.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing I would like to see change would be movement speed in stealth/invis mode for assassins. We are masters of being stealth, heck we can't do much of anything unless we are in stealth atm so why not give us the ability to have an advantage over other scouts when we are in stealth. It just seems to fit our profile and since we need to move A LOT while in stealth to get proper positioning for DPS delivery, this only makes sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a basic wishlist that I think is fair and I am sure there are a lot more things I can add to it but I don't want to scare off the Dev's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>.....logging in</DIV>

[deciever]

Great post. I agree. I think the damage on our DoT's should be upped significantly, as well.. Or their up-front damage, or maybe just speed up the ticks. <div></div>

[Skratttt]

<DIV>Our dots need more upfront and more TOTAL dmg ....lingering blow does actualy less damage than pre lu13 (by a lot) (WHY!?!?!?! we were lacking dps why nerf our mainstay frontal atack????)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is what i keep insisting on that NEEDS to be adressed....Its nice to say that recast timers on Flank/stealth atacks is the way to fix our dps ....i strongly disagree......if they add dps through our Frontal nonstealth dot line BOTH soloing (yes it can be done...although its hard) AND grouping assassins benefit......When doing grouped mobs ATM its really allmost a waste of time to use them due to the lack of punch...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wished a Dev would read this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This taken care of would make me very happy.......i say we really push this issue, That and a change on Apply poison i wholeheartedly agree</DIV><p>Message Edited by Skratttt on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:00 AM</span>

[Onyx Cu]

<DIV>One thing id really like to see adressed,stuning ability. Im at level 24 and even though the road is stil long this part of the journey is littered with problems.Cheapshot being the only up front stun Preditors/Assasins have available makes any use of the 5 backstabing attacks I have basicly useless or a complete gamble. The problem is if the cheapshot doesnt land or gets parried/whatnot by the monsters its almost a garrenteed game over.Like a keystone in a bridge,If it fails the entire structure breaks regardless how well build or engineered the rest of the structure was. The real issue is that Cheapshot is an integral component for soloing with an assasin of my level the snares like Caltrops and "Ensnare" are just useless for delaying a mob,Without an upgraded set of snares to Adept III rank i know that any atempt to put distance between myself when waiting for the <STRONG>sole </STRONG>stunning ability to refresh. I have Cheapshot and the snares at Adept III rank ,hand crafted by yours truelly and the thing I noticed other than all the time harvesting needed to get the runes made was that Cheapshot in no way scales in comparison to the old Apprentice I version I started off with,when compared with the snares it just looks like a null upgrade.There needs to be a clear and noticable explanation for upgrading that skill.Ive read mobs can break the effects of Cheapshot before the intended time period expires but this isnt noted or explained in the skills description tooltip,ontop of the inconsistant feedback on this I have never noticed this happeneing prior to or post the upgrade to Adept III,Either cheapshot landed or it didnt.Light on this subject would be nice.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Onyx Cube on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 AM</span>

[Forsaken_God]

The most important changes are still the recasts on or big attacks imo. For apply poisen it SHOULD be a self buffing poisen to ourselves. It makes perfect sense seeing that rangers can supply their own arrows we should be able to supply or own poisens.

[Aienaa]

<HR> <DIV>Our dots need more upfront and more TOTAL dmg ....lingering blow does actualy less damage than pre lu13 (by a lot) (WHY!?!?!?! we were lacking dps why nerf our mainstay frontal atack????)</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rather than more upfront and total damage, would something similiar to what they did to our AoEs work here?   Shorten the amount of time it takes for the DoT to run it's course while not altering damage or the number of ticks?...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IE (just using random numbers here, since I'm at work and can't look up actual numbers)  Instead of 100 damage every 6 seconds for 24 seconds, make it 100 damage every 4 seconds for 16 seconds....  Same damage, just over a shorter time period (ensuring the DoT has completed before being able to recast the spell)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</DIV>

[twiddlethumb]

I agree that assassins need continued  communication with Sony. But, why in a new thread?? The old thread is sticky and is developer-monitored. This one isn't. Not the best way to get issues addressed I think. <div></div>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>Aienaa wrote:<HR> <DIV>Our dots need more upfront and more TOTAL dmg ....lingering blow does actualy less damage than pre lu13 (by a lot) (WHY!?!?!?! we were lacking dps why nerf our mainstay frontal atack????)</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rather than more upfront and total damage, would something similiar to what they did to our AoEs work here?   Shorten the amount of time it takes for the DoT to run it's course while not altering damage or the number of ticks?...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IE (just using random numbers here, since I'm at work and can't look up actual numbers)  Instead of 100 damage every 6 seconds for 24 seconds, make it 100 damage every 4 seconds for 16 seconds....  Same damage, just over a shorter time period (ensuring the DoT has completed before being able to recast the spell)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</DIV><hr></blockquote>How bout each poison tick every 1 sec? it make more sense that way because if let's say ur poison, you'll keep getting hurt as time goes by, u won't be like hurt, wait for 6 secs, hurt again, wait for 6 secs.. and repeat. That should make poison worth more especially the one that do high dot or moderate dot. Cuz right now most of the scout uses high upfront poison which is a waste for the other ones.

[dea]

<span><blockquote><hr>Aienaa wrote:<hr> <div>Our dots need more upfront and more TOTAL dmg ....lingering blow does actualy less damage than pre lu13 (by a lot) (WHY!?!?!?! we were lacking dps why nerf our mainstay frontal atack????)</div> <div> <hr> </div> <div> </div> <div>Rather than more upfront and total damage, would something similiar to what they did to our AoEs work here?   Shorten the amount of time it takes for the DoT to run it's course while not altering damage or the number of ticks?...  </div> <div> </div> <div>IE (just using random numbers here, since I'm at work and can't look up actual numbers)  Instead of 100 damage every 6 seconds for 24 seconds, make it 100 damage every 4 seconds for 16 seconds....  Same damage, just over a shorter time period (ensuring the DoT has completed before being able to recast the spell)</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</div><hr></blockquote>I and others have suggested reducing the tick time and increasing the dot damage as a fix for our frontal attacks for some time now. As for apply poison being a self-buff, while that may remove some cost from being an Assassin it will severely hinder your DPS output compared to t6 legendary poisons. If anything, make it Self or Group Friend targetable so that we have the choice to be cheap and pay the price instead in loss of damage output. Personally, this power is fairly worthless and I would rather it just be replaced.</span><div></div>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>deaks wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Aienaa wrote:<hr> <div>Our dots need more upfront and more TOTAL dmg ....lingering blow does actualy less damage than pre lu13 (by a lot) (WHY!?!?!?! we were lacking dps why nerf our mainstay frontal atack????)</div> <div> <hr> </div> <div> </div> <div>Rather than more upfront and total damage, would something similiar to what they did to our AoEs work here?   Shorten the amount of time it takes for the DoT to run it's course while not altering damage or the number of ticks?...  </div> <div> </div> <div>IE (just using random numbers here, since I'm at work and can't look up actual numbers)  Instead of 100 damage every 6 seconds for 24 seconds, make it 100 damage every 4 seconds for 16 seconds....  Same damage, just over a shorter time period (ensuring the DoT has completed before being able to recast the spell)</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</div><hr></blockquote>I and others have suggested reducing the tick time and increasing the dot damage as a fix for our frontal attacks for some time now. As for apply poison being a self-buff, while that may remove some cost from being an Assassin it will severely hinder your DPS output compared to t6 legendary poisons. If anything, make it Self or Group Friend targetable so that we have the choice to be cheap and pay the price instead in loss of damage output. Personally, this power is fairly worthless and I would rather it just be replaced.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>If make it self buff, please make them stackable with our T6 legendary poison. It's stpuid to make it self castable but not stack with our poison, which means another trash spell in our spell book

[dea]

<span><blockquote><hr>Demonskiller wrote:<blockquote><hr>deaks wrote:<span> As for apply poison being a self-buff, while that may remove some cost from being an Assassin it will severely hinder your DPS output compared to t6 legendary poisons. If anything, make it Self or Group Friend targetable so that we have the choice to be cheap and pay the price instead in loss of damage output. Personally, this power is fairly worthless and I would rather it just be replaced.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>If make it self buff, please make them stackable with our T6 legendary poison. It's stpuid to make it self castable but not stack with our poison, which means another trash spell in our spell book<hr></blockquote>This would be absolutely sick damage. It would be our own permanent conc buff of "Inspired Daring"-type damage (but with a limited proc chance), there is no end to the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fest that would ensue if we were given a permanent stackable poison buff. For that reason, I would just assume that if made into a self-buff it would override normal damage poisons. Am I the only Assassin who would gladly trade away Apply Poison for a new combat art? Maybe a new flank attack with fast refresh (<1m recast), new combat stealth line with a special effect on combat arts used under its duration or from this stealth, a self strength buff that brings back our chance to proc for short duration haste (pre-CU Blood Scent proc from Merciless Villainy), something new entirely perhaps?</span><div></div>

[Aienaa]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>As for apply poison being a self-buff, while that may remove some cost from being an Assassin it will severely hinder your DPS output compared to t6 legendary poisons. If anything, make it Self or Group Friend targetable so that we have the choice to be cheap and pay the price instead in loss of damage output. Personally, this power is fairly worthless and I would rather it just be replaced.<BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It may be lower DPS than T6 Legendary, but then again how many times do you use T6 Legendary in a normal group?  I know I generally go with standard T6 poisons when in groups or soloing and save the Legendary T6 poisons for raids, because it helps to cut down on the cost factor of having to buy poisons to maintain our DPS...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know, but even if it was changed to where we could use it on ourselves, I'm not entirely sure I would use it on myself...  In a group it would help more to cast it on someone else and use our handcrafted poisons, this would add a little extra DPS to the group...   In solo situations, I think I would still use handcrafted poisons as it would help with soloing through increased poison damage....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't really see any reason to change the Apply Poison skill...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin  /  Parody - 51 Troubador</DIV>

[Nu]

<P>Your dps parsed when grinding in a normal heroic group goes up alot at 58 once you get finnishing blow.. would say its one of the best skills in tier6, but doesnt help much when raiding =(</P> <P> </P> <P>What I personally would like to see is a improved faltering blast line (as it got ninja nerfed in the revamp), shorter cast time on assassinate (look at berserkers rampage for example), and less "have to be behind" requirements... flanking should be enougth...  </P> <P>Attacks like spitting asp/spitting viper were made positional to avoid kiting, but making it behind only narrows down the usage of it alot, since it can be kinda tricky to get directly behind a mob when shooting it. Changing it to flanking still prevents it from being used when kiting, but gives a easier time actually using it, on raids for example, where u have to avoid Ae:s and have the mob:s back very far away, to get healers and casters out of ae range.</P> <P> </P> <P>When it comes to the frontal attacks, I cant really complain so much. The damage they do are not bad at all, and combined with autoswinging, it should be more than enougth when soloing.</P> <P> </P> <P>I have seen alot of whining on this board for a long time.. of cource its frustrating having almost equal damage as berserkers, and not being the highest tier dps, but come on <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Playing a assassin is still very fun, and it isnt like we dont do anything =)  The changes to combat arts in the latest live update was a nice start, and with a few more adjustments things will be fine <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  As it is right now, we are very good in normal groups, not bad at soloing, but lacking some damage output to be really really desired on raids.</P> <P> </P> <P>Main problem on raids is problaby that we cant stay in and fight the whole time.. we have to run in and out.. do some bow CA:s and then in again and burst some damage for 30 secs and so on... so many mobs have scary aoe:s.. 1..2.3..4 scary ones even sometimes <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </P> <P>Resist gear and some friendly healers fixes it for the most time, but still... rangers, wizards, warlocks, necros and so on has such a easy time compared to us.</P> <P>It is a challenge, and it makes it fun, but it also makes our damage output go down a bit, even if bow Ca:s and even autoattacking with indium arrows does a nice deal of damage.</P>

[Demonskill]

Am I the only Assassin who would gladly trade away Apply Poison for a new combat art? Maybe a new flank attack with fast refresh (<1m recast), new combat stealth line with a special effect on combat arts used under its duration or from this stealth, a self strength buff that brings back our chance to proc for short duration haste (pre-CU Blood Scent proc from Merciless Villainy), something new entirely perhaps?<b> new combat art replacing that yes, but you think 1min is short recast?</b>It may be lower DPS than T6 Legendary, but then again how many times do you use T6 Legendary in a normal group? I know I generally go with standard T6 poisons when in groups or soloing and save the Legendary T6 poisons for raids, because it helps to cut down on the cost factor of having to buy poisons to maintain our DPS... I don't know, but even if it was changed to where we could use it on ourselves, I'm not entirely sure I would use it on myself... In a group it would help more to cast it on someone else and use our handcrafted poisons, this would add a little extra DPS to the group... In solo situations, I think I would still use handcrafted poisons as it would help with soloing through increased poison damage.... I don't really see any reason to change the Apply Poison skill... <b> i use legendary poison all the time, solo, group, whatever </b>When it comes to the frontal attacks, I cant really complain so much. The damage they do are not bad at all, and combined with autoswinging, it should be more than enougth when soloing. <b>our Frontal attack is seriously weak, i donno why u said it's fine lol, especially in fast grinding group there is no way the dot can run more than 3 or 4 ticks, that make the oozing wound's last tick dmg completely useless, i don't think in a group for 4 hrs grinding and i probably only see the last tick proc once or twice (or maybe none, cuz no mob last longer than 20 secs)</b><b> how come no one talk about Mask of Night? it gotten suck really badly now, 300 - 500 dmg adept 3 to get me insteath using 0.5 secs cAst time with lag which get me 0.75 secs that's way too much. </b>

[Bas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> twiddlethumb wrote:<BR>I agree that assassins need continued  communication with Sony.<BR><BR>But, why in a new thread??<BR><BR>The old thread is sticky and is developer-monitored.<BR>This one isn't. Not the best way to get issues addressed I think.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because this post is more concise and to the point.  No need to browse through bunches of pages to get to the point of post LU16.  2cp.

[Kinvore]

<P>I think we all agree that shortening the timers on our big attacks would be a big help.  However I can think of a few other things that could make things even better for us, without making us overpowered:</P> <P>1.) More stuns, and make them more effective: we should be on par with monks with this, if not exceed them since stuns make it possible for us to get in position for our stealth attacks.  It would make us better at soloing and more desirable in groups and raids.</P> <P>2.) Remove stealth and positional requirements for our AE attacks: this can make it easier to deal with groups of weak mobs. </P> <P>3.) Make our honed reflexes/focus line use a concentration instead of a timer: the timers make these almost useless.  I think we'd even accept a slight decrease in the haste/dps buff if we could just have these always up.  This would add to our autoattack damage.</P> <P>I think if these changes were made it would satisfy most of the problems we've been having and you'd see a lot less complaining on this board.  But that's just, like, my opinion, man.</P> <P> </P> <P>Pouncer</P> <P>54 Assassin</P>

[Jvaloth]

<DIV>Heres what I think we still need:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Str buff on our offensive stance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agility buff on our defensive stance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cheap trick -  Not to tricky atm unless you are soloing  double down greens.  Make this stun work on everything except for epics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reduce Assassinate to 5 minutes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reduce Deathlyblade to 3 minutes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gorestrike to  45 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make the Massacre line a non stealth, frontal arc AE on par with Beserkers Rampage (3 min recast).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Done.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassins would be Tier 1.</DIV>

[Graton]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Kinvore wrote:<div></div> <p>I think we all agree that shortening the timers on our big attacks would be a big help.  However I can think of a few other things that could make things even better for us, without making us overpowered:</p> <p>1.) More stuns, and make them more effective: we should be on par with monks with this, if not exceed them since stuns make it possible for us to get in position for our stealth attacks.  It would make us better at soloing and more desirable in groups and raids.</p> <p>2.) Remove stealth and positional requirements for our AE attacks: this can make it easier to deal with groups of weak mobs. </p> <p>3.) Make our honed reflexes/focus line use a concentration instead of a timer: the timers make these almost useless.  I think we'd even accept a slight decrease in the haste/dps buff if we could just have these always up.  This would add to our autoattack damage.</p> <p>I think if these changes were made it would satisfy most of the problems we've been having and you'd see a lot less complaining on this board.  But that's just, like, my opinion, man.</p> <p>Pouncer</p> <p>54 Assassin</p><hr></blockquote> 1. more stuns sounds like utility to me which sounds like an excuse to not imporve our dmg so i don't like the idea. 2. i agree on ae's stealth and position should go away on these, casting time is great now but this removal would go one step better 3. yep make honed reflexes permanent and reduce the haset % to balance out 4. put a str buff on our offensive stance already... man this is a no brainer 5. lower assassinate and deathly blade recast times to 5 minutes and 2 minutes or something similar. 6. lower timers on concealment , garotte , gorestrike & concealment to be 45 secs 7. make assailing blow worth casting somehow for something other than procing poison - more dmg plus an interrupt maybe ? 8. remove back only requirements from gore / crippling strike / spitting asp - flanking is reasonable. 9. reduce power consumption on all attacks to balance reduced cast time.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Graton on <span class=date_text>11-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:48 PM</span>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>Graton wrote:<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Kinvore wrote:<div></div> <p>I think we all agree that shortening the timers on our big attacks would be a big help.  However I can think of a few other things that could make things even better for us, without making us overpowered:</p> <p>1.) More stuns, and make them more effective: we should be on par with monks with this, if not exceed them since stuns make it possible for us to get in position for our stealth attacks.  It would make us better at soloing and more desirable in groups and raids.</p> <p>2.) Remove stealth and positional requirements for our AE attacks: this can make it easier to deal with groups of weak mobs. </p> <p>3.) Make our honed reflexes/focus line use a concentration instead of a timer: the timers make these almost useless.  I think we'd even accept a slight decrease in the haste/dps buff if we could just have these always up.  This would add to our autoattack damage.</p> <p>I think if these changes were made it would satisfy most of the problems we've been having and you'd see a lot less complaining on this board.  But that's just, like, my opinion, man.</p> <p> </p> <p>Pouncer</p> <p>54 Assassin</p><hr></blockquote> 1. more stuns sounds like utility to me which sounds like an excuse to not imporve our dmg so i don't like the idea. 2. i agree on ae's stealth and position should go away on these, casting time is great now but this removal would go one step better 3. yep make honed reflexes permanent and reduce the haset % to balance out 4. put a str buff on our offensive stance already... man this is a no brainer 5. lower assassinate and deathly blade recast times to 5 minutes and 2 minutes or something similar. 6. lower timers on concealment , garotte , gorestrike & concealment to be 45 secs 7. make assailing blow worth casting somehow for something other than procing poison - more dmg plus an interrupt maybe ? 8. remove back only requirements from gore / crippling strike / spitting asp - flanking is reasonable. 9. reduce power consumption on all attacks to balance reduced cast time.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Graton on <span class=date_text>11-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:48 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Nice point and 100% agree with you there.btw make perma Brutal Focus too.Also add, Finishing Blow to work at 30% or 40%

[Get]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> Graton wrote:</DIV> <DIV><BR>1. more stuns sounds like utility to me which sounds like an excuse to not imporve our dmg so i don't like the idea.<BR><BR>2. i agree on ae's stealth and position should go away on these, casting time is great now but this removal would go one step better<BR><BR>3. yep make honed reflexes permanent and reduce the haset % to balance out<BR><BR>4. put a str buff on our offensive stance already... man this is a no brainer<BR><BR>5. lower assassinate and deathly blade recast times to 5 minutes and 2 minutes or something similar.<BR><BR>6. lower timers on concealment , garotte , gorestrike & concealment to be 45 secs<BR><BR>7. make assailing blow worth casting somehow for something other than procing poison - more dmg plus an interrupt maybe ?<BR><BR>8. remove back only requirements from gore / crippling strike / spitting asp - flanking is reasonable.<BR><BR>9. reduce power consumption on all attacks to balance reduced cast time.<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Graton on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>11-15-2005</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:48 PM</SPAN><BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P><FONT color=#ff3300>its  a nice goal but that will take forever for them to change. It takes ema while to realize we arent doing our dmg, then lil longer to fix </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff3300>( BTW the fixes are good just want to point that out _ the problem is the fixes come to slow, then by the time its fixed the expansion comes out and we have to re fix. this way we are always broken and not keeping up in some way. see my point? </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff3300>they are gonna have to get more ppl in here posting feed back as to what they are doing not jsut for assassin but all. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff3300>The list u have there is Perfect 100 percent agree, i just dont see it happening all at once or very fast compared to the last fix.</FONT></P>

[Tealdea]

Cripple would have been a nice solo skill... Too bad the lower recast came with a positional requirment. I dare not use this skill solo'n a ^ con'd creature, I'd rather just get the extra dmg from MoN since it'll go off quicker being flanking aswell, even if the second attack doesn't pull off, I still got MoN off and still got own'd if Assassinate missed or got parried rofl. The whole mob turns on root thing gets annoying now since I started to step back out onto the sand's past the common lands..... Why are we ignored for so long then tossed a bone here and there just to keep us alive for a little longer? I'm hungry... "Please sir, I'd like some more...." <div></div>

[BrownDogLongTong]

If they reduced the recasts on our big damages, Mask of Night timer would need to be reduced as well. There arent many ways to get into stealth efficiently (surveil I dont consider efficient and has a long recast, and concealment just isnt worth staying on the hotbar). Mask of Night needs quicker recast so we can actually use our CAs. <div></div>

[Skratttt]

<P>Yes thats the exact reason why i beleive our frontal Nonstealth atacks need beefing up......we dont have ENOUGH ways to get in stealth and if hit with ae guess what u just lost a chance for that atack......</P> <P>Another valid point brought up was apply poison....seriously get rid of this spell.....Give us something usefull for self.....</P> <P>The part on adding more stunns is nice just that thats the brigands specialty.......i personally would take Asp/viper with stunn effect (anyone notice mob fall to their knees when hit by this CA??? maybe it was suposed to stunn) then i could get my other flanking/rear atack off before mob turns arround....</P> <P>BTW i allways use T6 legendary poison, if you are not you are just making your dps suckyness worse...</P> <P>Yes our Offensive stance needs a STR boost......</P>

[Nu]

<P>Spitting viper/asp has a fall-to-knee-animation because it used to have a interrup before combat revamp.</P> <P> </P> <P>I dont agree that we need better frontal attacks, stuns, whatever fluff things <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> things are nice as they are, we just need a little higher overall damage.</P> <P> </P> <P>Frontal attacks are for tanks... stuns are for brigands <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Our class is defined by doing great damage from stealth/behind to mobs, in bursts. Of cource the frontal attacks leaves things to wish for, but they are NOT the big problem =) fixing them wouldnt do much.</P> <P>Apply poison is a nice skill if u ask me. It adds alot of damage to a group friend, and its finally nice being able to buff someone else a little bit. Stop being so selfish <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> just because u dont do the damage urself doesnt mean it is a bad skill to have!</P>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>BrownDogLongTongue wrote:If they reduced the recasts on our big damages, Mask of Night timer would need to be reduced as well. There arent many ways to get into stealth efficiently (surveil I dont consider efficient and has a long recast, and concealment just isnt worth staying on the hotbar). Mask of Night needs quicker recast so we can actually use our CAs. <div></div><hr></blockquote>donno why u don't use concealment, it replaced my surviel line (unless i use AE). Combo concealment with gorestrike and garrote and probably add in deathly blade + assassinate if emergency happens + finishing blow = 1 ^^^ sudden death in group situation. Yes sometimes u have to wait for it to get stealth, but it's better than stupid survile cast time.

[Graton]

<span><blockquote><hr>Demonskiller wrote:<blockquote><hr>BrownDogLongTongue wrote:If they reduced the recasts on our big damages, Mask of Night timer would need to be reduced as well. There arent many ways to get into stealth efficiently (surveil I dont consider efficient and has a long recast, and concealment just isnt worth staying on the hotbar). Mask of Night needs quicker recast so we can actually use our CAs. <div></div><hr></blockquote>donno why u don't use concealment, it replaced my surviel line (unless i use AE). Combo concealment with gorestrike and garrote and probably add in deathly blade + assassinate if emergency happens + finishing blow = 1 ^^^ sudden death in group situation. Yes sometimes u have to wait for it to get stealth, but it's better than stupid survile cast time.<hr></blockquote>i'm going to guess he's not 55 yet. before 55, they really are not enough ways to get into stealth. great idea on lowering finishing blow to say 33% - 1/3 of hit points or something similar. trying to time it to 20% sucks.</span><div></div>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>Graton wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Demonskiller wrote:<blockquote><hr>BrownDogLongTongue wrote:If they reduced the recasts on our big damages, Mask of Night timer would need to be reduced as well. There arent many ways to get into stealth efficiently (surveil I dont consider efficient and has a long recast, and concealment just isnt worth staying on the hotbar). Mask of Night needs quicker recast so we can actually use our CAs. <div></div><hr></blockquote>donno why u don't use concealment, it replaced my surviel line (unless i use AE). Combo concealment with gorestrike and garrote and probably add in deathly blade + assassinate if emergency happens + finishing blow = 1 ^^^ sudden death in group situation. Yes sometimes u have to wait for it to get stealth, but it's better than stupid survile cast time.<hr></blockquote>i'm going to guess he's not 55 yet. before 55, they really are not enough ways to get into stealth. great idea on lowering finishing blow to say 33% - 1/3 of hit points or something similar. trying to time it to 20% sucks.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>He said "concealment doesn't <b>worth</b> putting in the hotbar" so i thought he would be 55+. Anyways, i do agree finishing blow need to up the % a bit

[Demonskill]

i even have to change to a UI that shows HP percentage just for finishing blow heh

[dea]

<span><blockquote><hr>Demonskiller wrote:i even have to change to a UI that shows HP percentage just for finishing blow heh<hr></blockquote>If memory serves, in the default UI isn't the last bubble of health the 20% mark? I'm not sure, but I think that is the same point where the mob HP bar will change colors to red. Usually if the mob is in the red I go ahead and use Finishing Blow, aside from clearing yard trash that dies far too fast, that seems to work for me.</span><div></div>

[dparker7]

<P>We're still broken.  Our DPS is no where near the tier1 classes.  When they all average over 600 DPS, how am I supposed to compete with them when casting, say, Contrived Weapon with a cast time of 1 sec with a damage range of something like 400-750. </P> <P>We still have waaaay too many positional and stealth attacks.  I can understand making assassinate and deathly blade have these requirements, but to need to go into stealth to cast punch blade?  It is a weak attack and should be useable whenever it pops, without stealth.  We have all these restrictions and nearly zero utility and I'd be fine with that if we were top notch DPS.  But we arent even close.  </P> <P>Last night, I couldnt even parse half of the DPS of a ranger 1 level higher.  We just plain suck right now.</P> <DIV>Specific skill problems:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crippling Strike - it was fine the way it was before.  Im not supposed to perma debuff, that is what brigands do and they do it better.  If you want the change to stick, then remove the rear only and making flanking at the worst.  All rear only skills in this game are a gigantic pain.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Numbing Strike - breaks so quickly its basically just another frontal attack on my hotbar.  Not sure what was so game breaking about it before when it was only 12 seconds and we could only cast it once a minute.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mask of Night - Should put you in stealth even if you miss if you keep all the current skills with stealth requirements. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frontal DoTs - None of them finish their ticks before they refresh.  Their damage is poor.  No heroic mob lasts 36seconds, and the harder raid targets all have AEs that I cant stand in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassin's Mark - Waste of casting time.  Also is our only CA that gets resisted and doesnt have its full timer after a resist.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Punch Blade - Requires stealth, and it shouldnt.  By having both this and MoN on 10 second timers, you effectively give us Concealment and Surveil to allow us to stealth for all our other stealth attacks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gorestrike - Does damage on par with other class skills that are on 30 second timers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deathly Blade - I wait 5 minutes for this skill to refresh, then I get a decent situation to use it and...  nothing.  Mob avoided the attack and now I need to wait another 5 minutes to even have halfway decent DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassinate - see Deathly Blade</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Spitting Asp - Rear only is way too restrictive given the casting time and the odd way models are displayed compared to their calculated position.  Casting time is too high for the damage output</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Faltering Blast - there was zero reason to lower the damage on this CA</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other bow CA - It used to be a 30 sec cast.  Also, the casting time is too high.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whirling Blades - still 10% to a ranger's 30%, why?  Its fairly poor and doesnt have a str buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cheap shot - nearly worthless against anything with a ^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Murderous Design - Cant cast outside of group on a raid, so you have ot cast it on a fluff pet, which will often die mid fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Apply Poison - Can't cast outside of group on raid.  Little usefulness except to help the tank with agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Concealment - should place into stealth upon casting.  Waste too much of the 5 seconds waiting to get into stealth due to lag and potential autoattack misses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finishing blow - 20% is too low.  Needs to be upped to 40% or some other number easily recognizeable on the standard mob health bar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall, Im not sure that using a large number of these skills is helping my DPS anymore.  When you spend mana and do less damage, thats a woeful state of a class.</DIV>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>deaks wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Demonskiller wrote:i even have to change to a UI that shows HP percentage just for finishing blow heh<hr></blockquote>If memory serves, in the default UI isn't the last bubble of health the 20% mark? I'm not sure, but I think that is the same point where the mob HP bar will change colors to red. Usually if the mob is in the red I go ahead and use Finishing Blow, aside from clearing yard trash that dies far too fast, that seems to work for me.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I was thinking of the same thing before until i put my mouse cursor on the health bar, notice that the default UI's 20% is a little bit off, probably it should look like it's at 23% when it was actually 20%

[Tealdea]

Concealment... It makes me miss the old day Slip Away. Wish it just locked us in stealth to spam everything for 5 seconds, if not then it seriously needs some increase in duration <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I felt low yesterday... Watched a guild Necro, friend of mine, solo a ^^^ level 59 cyclops in PoF and he was level 55 himself. Balance? People aren't suppose to be able to solo those? Nah, not ppl, Assassin's.... Assassin's arn't suppose to be able to solo ^^^'s <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Jvaloth]

<P>You wanna know what swashbucklers level 55 spell is?<BR></P> <P>Adept 3  Bladeweaver  =  90 str 60 agi self buff.</P> <P> </P> <P>hahahaha</P> <P> </P> <P>W.T.F. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[dea]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jvaloth wrote:<p>You wanna know what swashbucklers level 55 spell is?</p> <p>Adept 3  Bladeweaver  =  90 str 60 agi self buff.</p> <p>hahahaha</p> <p>W.T.F. </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Yes the Swashbucklers get Bladeweaver at lvl 55, but it is not their Ancient Teachings spell but merely the t6 version of their self-buff (we get Wicked Villainy at lvl 55 which is the t6 version of our self buff as well). Their new combat art added with DoF at lvl 55 is Hail of Steel, much like the Stream of Arrows that the Rangers get but using throwing knives instead of a bow and arrows. </span><div></div>

[Jvaloth]

<P>Yup, both vastly superior to what we got.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Draknishar]

I cant belive what Im reading in this thread, seriously. There isnt a time when Im not sleeping that I dont outdamage the other dps-classes and to my suprise this means casters as well! Having to stand behind the enemy shouldnt be much of a problem really, soloing is easy enough anyways. As long as you use the tools provided while thinking ahead just a bit you will do great dps! many seem to disslike apply poison, I think its a very nice skill, 15% chance to proc 200dmg and a DoT! Ok so it doesnt count towards my damage in the parser but really I prefer giving away as much aggro as I possibly can ( cause I outdamage everything so getting aggro really is starting to be a big issue ) reducing casting times on many spells isnt needed either, wich is what I ment by thinking ahead, you shouldnt try to dump every skill you have on every mob you encounter, its not needed and isnt very smart in the long run as if you have a good pace set you will lose (!) dps on many fights. also note that by making every skill usable in every fight I atleast would die alot. Positional requirements being a pain? on our AEs? Personaly I find theres plenty of time to get behind while stealthing... someone mentioned that we should have honed reflexes and brutal focus permanently, its a great combo to unleash when you need the extra dps, in a tight spot or in a raid where you need to go all out but normaly its just an easy way to die. Thinking about all the worthless stuff Im writing the only real thing I would want is for the murderous intent line to have its hate transfer increased cause the only problem with being an assassin is managing your aggro and if you guys keep whining instead of learning to play your class people like me wont be able to play unless nekkid and have a full fabled tank... <div></div>

[Ztrom]

I could not agree more with you, Draknishar. I mean, doing 600+ dps on the undead aravu groups of three ^ mobs in Shimmering citadel at level 52 is not bad dps. Yes, I have parsed that on myself plenty of times, without the use of deathly blade or assassinate. Lately, in every group I have had, I have outdamaged everyone else, including conjurors and wizards (and berserkers), in just about every heroic encounter. The main thing that stops me from doing even more damage is when I get aggro or when I hold back to avoid getting aggro. Tanks that can hold aggro when I go all-out dps are very rare and I gladly put Apply Poison on them to give them yet another way to get a bit more hate built up. You see, I don't want the hate myself. It does get hard to stealth and do backstabs when the mob turns towards me. Anum, level 53 assassin on Splitpaw. <div></div>

[dparker7]

<P>Since the rest of us obviously dont know how to play our class, please, give us an idea of how you fight.  Cause with all ad3s and cobalt weapons, I cant consistently do 600 DPS.  </P> <P>In fact, I was in a group with a pally a ranger and a bruiser last night in table.  The mobs normally lasted less than 15 seconds.  The ranger barely had to move and was doing 800+ DPS on all fights.  The bruiser and I were mostly just there incase the ancient cyclops popped, because the pally and ranger can and have in the past duoed the instance.  So basically, please teach me to be able to do that amount of DPS, cause for the life of me I cant figure out how to myself.  </P>

[Skratttt]

<DIV>Lol anum all i gota say is the people you group with must suck at dps...ranger in my guild allways out dps me in multi mob encouters...and on single epics i barely edge him out throwing everything including assassinate into the mix</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heck yes the patch added dps to us....but i have yet to break the 700 dps mark without using DB master 2 + assassinate AD 3</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW you can get false dps readings if you wait till about the end of a fight and just use one big atack when it dies if using Statalizer...i like combat stats for that reason...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still searching for cobalt for leafblades (should have made those 2 first <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> instead of SS&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[dea]

I hate to say it, but from what I've seen all of the crazy DPS casters and Rangers were the first to 60. They were in high demand for maximizing xp gain. The fact that at this time you cannot find lowbie casters who can outdps you really doesn't prove anything. At 60, they can still tear me up in group encounters and some classes can give me a run for my money on single-mob encounters. We are a ton better than we used to be, mostly because of our auto-attack and proc damage (but then everyone who dual wields got the proc damage and weapon damage increases, they just lack our +dps buffs), but I think the fixes went in the wrong direction. Being a class that auto-attacks for my dps isn't going to hold my interest in this game, its more likely to help me get bored faster and look for the next game. <div></div>

[Ztrom]

Ok, if you want to spam damage, try this... First, make sure you are stealthed with hunt before the encounter. Once the mob or the mobs are within range, use Punch Blade or Shadow Assault, depending on situation. You don't want to use shadow assault around a big number of non-aggro mobs, but the dot on it is nice even on single mobs. Then just keep spamming in this order: anathema, deadfall, mask of night, gore strike, surveil, garrote, cripple, infected wound, lingering blow, evasion, mask of night, punch blade, assassin's shot, spitting viper, faltering blast... Yes, you might want to put massacre in too somewhere if you're fighting a group of mobs. If you don't have aggro by now, you are either using very bad equipment, non-upgraded ca's, crappy poison or a very good tank. You do know that there are debuff poisons too, right? Most of them are common handcrafted too, so they aren't very expensive either. Strike of Glox lowers piercing mitigation by 647 on level 53 and Curse of the Djinn lowers slashing mitigation. Of course you need to use a legendary damage poison for most dps output, though. Ok, I'm not saying that the order I mentioned above is the best order, I'm not even sure exactly what order I use all the times and I don't always do everything exactly the same way, but if you do it like that and actually hit the mobs, you should deal a lot of damage. I should also mention that I was in a group with an overall very high ae dps when I could get 600+ and even 700+ sometimes on those encounters I mentioned earlier, so the mobs went down really fast and well... I didn't really get to the point where I had to wait for recasts. I still had the highest dps out of everyone in that group. About rangers, I don't know. I haven't had the luxury of being in a group with a ranger at my own level in a very long time, so I haven't been able to parse and compare. Rangers may very well outdps me, but I haven't had the chance to try. ...and finally, no, I'm not level 60 yet. I'm level 53, so I can't say much about how it is at maximum level compared to how it is now. I just know that, whether or not I can actually be outdamaged by a bunch of other classes, I love how my assassin works now. Assassins are top notch dps and I don't see the need to bring us up in damage even more.<div></div>

[Craien]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jvaloth wrote:<BR> <P>You wanna know what swashbucklers level 55 spell is?<BR></P> <P>Adept 3  Bladeweaver  =  90 str 60 agi self buff.</P> <P> </P> <P>hahahaha</P> <P> </P> <P>W.T.F. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Er, what?  And here I thought that our version was pretty decent.

[Tealdea]

I was thinking about the delay in Concealment... Shouldn't it's recovery time be instant also for that type of skill to help cut down on the extra time since it's duration is almost non-exsistant?? <div></div>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>Draknishar wrote:I cant belive what Im reading in this thread, seriously. There isnt a time when Im not sleeping that I dont outdamage the other dps-classes and to my suprise this means casters as well! Having to stand behind the enemy shouldnt be much of a problem really, soloing is easy enough anyways. As long as you use the tools provided while thinking ahead just a bit you will do great dps! many seem to disslike apply poison, I think its a very nice skill, 15% chance to proc 200dmg and a DoT! Ok so it doesnt count towards my damage in the parser but really I prefer giving away as much aggro as I possibly can ( cause I outdamage everything so getting aggro really is starting to be a big issue )<b>U are having trouble if u have aggro issue or ur murderous Intent is on app2? Right now i rarely grab aggro and im talking about chain CA without using evasion (not using assassinate). In rare occasion where pull aggro, just paralyze strike and back off, tank will grab aggro again.</b> reducing casting times on many spells isnt needed either, wich is what I ment by thinking ahead, you shouldnt try to dump every skill you have on every mob you encounter, its not needed and isnt very smart in the long run as if you have a good pace set you will lose (!) dps on many fights. also note that by making every skill usable in every fight I atleast would die alot.<b>again you got ur aggro problem. I dump all my skill chain them and no problem with aggro, if you stay back and try not to get aggro u'll lower ur DPS (thus not maximum)</b> Positional requirements being a pain? on our AEs? Personaly I find theres plenty of time to get behind while stealthing... someone mentioned that we should have honed reflexes and brutal focus permanently, its a great combo to unleash when you need the extra dps, in a tight spot or in a raid where you need to go all out but normaly its just an easy way to die. <b> an easy way to die? aggro problem again? go upgrade ur murderous Intent</b> Thinking about all the worthless stuff Im writing the only real thing I would want is for the murderous intent line to have its hate transfer increased cause the only problem with being an assassin is managing your aggro and if you guys keep whining instead of learning to play your class people like me wont be able to play unless nekkid and have a full fabled tank... <div></div><hr></blockquote>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>Ztrom wrote:Ok, if you want to spam damage, try this... First, make sure you are stealthed with hunt before the encounter. Once the mob or the mobs are within range, use Punch Blade or Shadow Assault, depending on situation. You don't want to use shadow assault around a big number of non-aggro mobs, but the dot on it is nice even on single mobs. Then just keep spamming in this order: anathema, deadfall, mask of night, gore strike, surveil, garrote, cripple, infected wound, lingering blow, evasion, mask of night, punch blade, assassin's shot, spitting viper, faltering blast... Yes, you might want to put massacre in too somewhere if you're fighting a group of mobs. If you don't have aggro by now, you are either using very bad equipment, non-upgraded ca's, crappy poison or a very good tank. You do know that there are debuff poisons too, right? Most of them are common handcrafted too, so they aren't very expensive either. Strike of Glox lowers piercing mitigation by 647 on level 53 and Curse of the Djinn lowers slashing mitigation. Of course you need to use a legendary damage poison for most dps output, though. Ok, I'm not saying that the order I mentioned above is the best order, I'm not even sure exactly what order I use all the times and I don't always do everything exactly the same way, but if you do it like that and actually hit the mobs, you should deal a lot of damage. I should also mention that I was in a group with an overall very high ae dps when I could get 600+ and even 700+ sometimes on those encounters I mentioned earlier, so the mobs went down really fast and well... I didn't really get to the point where I had to wait for recasts. I still had the highest dps out of everyone in that group. About rangers, I don't know. I haven't had the luxury of being in a group with a ranger at my own level in a very long time, so I haven't been able to parse and compare. Rangers may very well outdps me, but I haven't had the chance to try. ...and finally, no, I'm not level 60 yet. I'm level 53, so I can't say much about how it is at maximum level compared to how it is now. I just know that, whether or not I can actually be outdamaged by a bunch of other classes, I love how my assassin works now. Assassins are top notch dps and I don't see the need to bring us up in damage even more.<div></div><hr></blockquote>From all your current CA dmg and i assume them mostly adept 3, i can't add them up to be 600 dps at ur level at all. i suggest you use combatstats 2.5.8 then parse again

[Drtydog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draknishar wrote:<BR><BR>Thinking about all the worthless stuff Im writing the only real thing I would want is for the murderous intent line to have its hate transfer increased cause the only problem with being an assassin is managing your aggro and if you guys keep whining instead of learning to play your class people like me wont be able to play unless nekkid and have a full fabled tank... <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><YAWN> oh okay.....i'll get back to ya as soon i learn how to play my toon...not sure what i've been doing for a year but obviously it has not been right. <roll eyes><BR>

[Draknishar]

dont have any skill bellow adept1,  anyways I dont know what you been doing for a year either, whining on the forums maby? I dont belive Everyone I group with can be worthless either specially being in the top raid guild of my server <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> getting back at the aggro thing, ofcourse I can root and back off if I get aggro but at this point Im already losing dps like mad and it might not be safe to step back in. As long as I adapt its no big deal but as long as its possible to grab aggro from almos any tank should I for some reason want to it cant be possible to increase dps by improving our CAs cause all that will cause is force me to slack more <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> sorry for nagging on about aggro but as I said, thats the only problem I ever encouter, its not dps thats for sure. <div></div>

[Nu]

<DIV>we parsed a fight with the latest combatstats in the epic area of silent city yesterday and I did 780 dps to one of the yellow con ^^^ nameds in there.. wasnt even in a optimized group.. no dirge nor fury =( was somewhat of a A-game though, as most CA:s except assassinate was up, but they are in most important fights..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>got all adept-3 and a few masters.. so nothing uber... cobalt leafblades...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Latest update to procs and damage on dual wield was a huge leap in dps, and warmly welcomed.... though, every melee dps using dual wield had the same thing.. not only assassins, so I think our class still need some boosts... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>new DW damage is soo nice <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> doing 200-250 dps afk just autoswinging <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and a disclaimer.. this isnt meant as bragging.. just showing what every assassin can do.. dps gets a nice jump in the end of tier6, when u get finnishing blow, and the new bow ca:s and.. the other stuff <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and for the record, as noted, I still think we need some adjustments... maby look into faltering blast damage, or reducing some cast times..  I dont know =) glad that devs are looking into balancing and trying their best to fix it!</DIV>

[Tealdea]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nuls wrote:<div>we parsed a fight with the latest combatstats in the epic area of silent city yesterday and I did 780 dps to one of the yellow con ^^^ nameds in there.. wasnt even in a optimized group.. no dirge nor fury =( was somewhat of a A-game though, as most CA:s except assassinate was up, but they are in most important fights..</div> <div> </div> <div>got all adept-3 and a few masters.. so nothing uber... cobalt leafblades...</div> <div> </div> <div>Latest update to procs and damage on dual wield was a huge leap in dps, and warmly welcomed.... though, every melee dps using dual wield had the same thing.. not only assassins, so I think our class still need some boosts... </div> <div> </div> <div>new DW damage is soo nice <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> doing 200-250 dps afk just autoswinging <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div>and a disclaimer.. this isnt meant as bragging.. just showing what every assassin can do.. dps gets a nice jump in the end of tier6, when u get finnishing blow, and the new bow ca:s and.. the other stuff <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and for the record, as noted, I still think we need some adjustments... maby look into faltering blast damage, or reducing some cast times..  I dont know =) glad that devs are looking into balancing <font color="#cc3333" size="6">and trying their best to fix it!</font></div><hr></blockquote>rofl</span><div></div>

[Nu]

<DIV>yeah well.. I think we are a working class, compared to like guardians and coercers for example that are quite broken, so I dont think we should whine too much <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and yes, I think lu16b fixed some of our problems, and I seriously think devs do their best to please everyone =) even if it sometimes takes way too much time...</DIV>

[Gorhauth]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nuls wrote:<div>yeah well.. I think we are a working class, compared to like guardians and coercers for example that are quite broken, so I dont think we should whine too much <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and yes, I think lu16b fixed some of our problems, and I seriously think devs do their best to please everyone =) even if it sometimes takes way too much time...</div><hr></blockquote>Coercers are pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] amazing.  It sucks that they lost the root, I loved that thing.  They still can solo Hidden Cache (at 57) all the way up to the last guy without it, though it takes a while.  Without their root, it takes us longer to duo the Cache or the heroics in Silent City. Coercers could use some fixing, but if they are played by a competent player, it is phenomenal what they can do.  Our coercer is still loving it, but he does have some suggestions (mainly charm). </span><div></div>

[Kabahl]

<span><blockquote><hr>dparker713 wrote: <div>Concealment - should place into stealth upon casting.  Waste too much of the 5 seconds waiting to get into stealth due to lag and potential autoattack misses. </div><hr></blockquote>You REALLY want to make this a viable skill?  Have it put us into stealth as soon as we activate the skill. . . and have it KEEP us there for the 5 seconds, through auto attack, through CAs, through damage taken . . . through everything.  Don't let it stop Auto attack (since we can auto attack through it) and just keep us in stealth . . . . 5 seconds of perma stealth isn't gonna over power us and it'll go a long way in helping us with DPS since it won't constantly stop us from auto attacking AND we could use it soloing since it'll keep us in stealth even though we're taking damage.    We really need every little bit we can to do comparable DPS AND be able to solo . . . Heh, and as long as I"m wishing . . . Make the duration of Concealement longer . . . . 10 . . . 20 . . . 30 seconds . . . . .Hey, a rat can dream, can't he?  ( - : Charn the Loyal, 60 Assassin, Toxxulia </span><div></div>

[NerroVI]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>I cant belive what Im reading in this thread, seriously.There isnt a time when Im not sleeping that I dont outdamage the other dps-classes and to my suprise this means casters as well!Having to stand behind the enemy shouldnt be much of a problem really, soloing is easy enough anyways. As long as you use the tools provided while thinking ahead just a bit you will do great dps!many seem to disslike apply poison, I think its a very nice skill, 15% chance to proc 200dmg and a DoT! Ok so it doesnt count towards my damage in the parser but really I prefer giving away as much aggro as I possibly can ( cause I outdamage everything so getting aggro really is starting to be a big issue )reducing casting times on many spells isnt needed either, wich is what I ment by thinking ahead, you shouldnt try to dump every skill you have on every mob you encounter, its not needed and isnt very smart in the long run as if you have a good pace set you will lose (!) dps on many fights. also note that by making every skill usable in every fight I atleast would die alot.Positional requirements being a pain? on our AEs? Personaly I find theres plenty of time to get behind while stealthing...someone mentioned that we should have honed reflexes and brutal focus permanently, its a great combo to unleash when you need the extra dps, in a tight spot or in a raid where you need to go all out but normaly its just an easy way to die.Thinking about all the worthless stuff Im writing the only real thing I would want is for the murderous intent line to have its hate transfer increased cause the only problem with being an assassin is managing your aggro and if you guys keep whining instead of learning to play your class people like me wont be able to play unless nekkid and have a full fabled tank...<div>Draknishar 56 Assassin / 52 Alchemist, Splitpaw</div><div></div><hr></blockquote>You just go ahead and keep believeing yourself.  It is really cool that you seem to be the only person that knows how to play the assassin class you are a god.Ohh im sorry were not in the game this isnt fantasy out here it is reality, might want to do a reality check.  First of all no one says that the assassin class cannot solo, no one said we cant out DPS ANY other class in the entire game, ok go back and reread the threads that have been posted here for almost a year, it took almost that long for us to get assassinate off a 1 hour timer, but hey you wouldnt need that anyway right just a fluff spell I mean it doesnt add to your DPS or anything, btw I would like to see the parses of you over a 1 hour with a ranger and a wizard and a warlok in a group setting and then go ahead and tell us how your DPS held up.  While your at it throw a beserker in there and then come back and tell us again how you did, no wait don't tell us with all of your 7 total posts but post a hard log here with the numbers.Btw if you don't know how to manage your aggro you should truely be the one learning how to play the class, I have been on almost every raid and in almost every zone and got aggro 1 time off a mob going full out with legendary poisons deceked out prismatic cobalt weps etc and the only reason was the MT got stunned right before a taunt string, but hey I don't know how to play my assassin right?You must think either your a genius or were all really a bunch of dumas, by saying we dont need to use all our attacks, we need to think ahead, wow no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] einstein you are brilliant really no seriously, how stupid can you possibly be to think that we just rush out and try to power dump solo mobs, you don't think that sometimes if it is a caster mob we lead off with ohh maybe cheap shot to give a fast stun, or maybe we use the still wortless garrote backstab, or that I dont carry around T6 stun poison for tough caster mobs to try and stun them, might wana give the benifit of doubt to some of us who have been here from the begining fighting to get the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] class where it even is at now.Tell ya what try this, take all your arrows put them in the bank, take all your poisons and toss them, then come back and say you still think were doing good DPS, we still are having to pay for a good chunk of DPS, and seriously unless your like me and play with a bunch of friends in a guild that raids or well your a alchy so u can make your own, for those who dont have a hook up, if they wana use the t6 poison that procs 444 DD + 73 a tic well thats only 11-15 gp per vial on my server, and I don't know if you noticed lately but we straight tear thru poison procs, thus paying still for our DPS, yeah the DW fix is great, yeah I love being able to proc like crazy, no I don't like that we have to pay to be able to do the damage, thus maybe Apply Poison should be a self OR friend ability iow if I am doing darathar and wana use legendary then I use my rare poison and put the AP proc on the MT.Anyway things are better but still not there, there are still some tweaks that need to be made, and I think that if they dont reduce timers then they should change all the frontal CA's to straight DD or faster tic DoTs, make the threat transfer RAID and apply poison RAID useable.</span><div></div>

[dparker7]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nuls wrote:<BR> <DIV>we parsed a fight with the latest combatstats in the epic area of silent city yesterday and I did 780 dps to one of the yellow con ^^^ nameds in there.. wasnt even in a optimized group.. no dirge nor fury =( was somewhat of a A-game though, as most CA:s except assassinate was up, but they are in most important fights..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>got all adept-3 and a few masters.. so nothing uber... cobalt leafblades...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Latest update to procs and damage on dual wield was a huge leap in dps, and warmly welcomed.... though, every melee dps using dual wield had the same thing.. not only assassins, so I think our class still need some boosts... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>new DW damage is soo nice <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> doing 200-250 dps afk just autoswinging <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and a disclaimer.. this isnt meant as bragging.. just showing what every assassin can do.. dps gets a nice jump in the end of tier6, when u get finnishing blow, and the new bow ca:s and.. the other stuff <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and for the record, as noted, I still think we need some adjustments... maby look into faltering blast damage, or reducing some cast times..  I dont know =) glad that devs are looking into balancing and trying their best to fix it!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Rangers can basically go afk and hit 780 DPS.  800+ every encounter all the time.  Your one time high isnt even equal to their lulls.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And what response have we gotten from the devs since LU16?  For all we know they think they're done 'balancing' us and are going to leave us alone.  They threw us a bone.  We're tier2 DSP with extra restrictions, but without the utility.  Still broken and no dev response that they're going to fix us.</DIV>

[dparker7]

Well, LU17 a and b basically ignore all of our problems.  Yipee! more time broken and zero dev response!

[Persi]

<P>Dparker you forget "broken and zero dev response" is the Assassin way of life. Is it really that hard to fix the recast times on a couple of CAs and make the damage output of our frontal CA's higher? I know this wouldn't solve all of our problems, but it would at least be a step in the right direction. I would also like to see Slip Away actually be made a usefull spell, the current version isn't doing much for me. Here a couple ideas for Slip Away:</P> <P>1. Allowing it to not suspend your speed buff(s)</P> <P>2. It giving you a higher speed than other invisibles that other classes have</P> <P> </P> <P>One of these two would actually make it the significant spell that it once was, pre-revamp.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Orontes Thestud</P> <P>40 Human Assassin</P> <P>Unrest</P> <p>Message Edited by Persis4 on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:39 PM</span>

[Tealdea]

I miss See Stealth along with the See Invis we STILL have <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div>

[Persi]

<P>I miss how valuable Assassin's Mark was before the revamp. That proc did hella damage, and it went off regularly while soloing and grouping. Now it is pretty much worthless <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Orontes Thestud</P> <P>40 Human Assassin</P> <P>Unrest</P>

[Tealdea]

<span><blockquote><hr>Persis4 wrote:<div></div> <p>I miss how valuable Assassin's Mark was before the revamp. That proc did hella damage, and it went off regularly while soloing and grouping. Now it is pretty much worthless <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Orontes Thestud</p> <p>40 Human Assassin</p> <p>Unrest</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>ROFL you just reminded me about that skill, havn't used it in so long I completely forgot about it.</span><div></div>

[Persi]

<DIV>Hahah, You can't help but forget about it. It serves no purpose, except to take up space on one of my hotbars. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Orontes Thestud</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>40 Human Assassin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unrest</DIV><p>Message Edited by Persis4 on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:37 PM</span>

[khalysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tealdeath wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Persis4 wrote:<BR> <P>I miss how valuable Assassin's Mark was before the revamp. That proc did hella damage, and it went off regularly while soloing and grouping. Now it is pretty much worthless <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>ROFL you just reminded me about that skill, havn't used it in so long I completely forgot about it.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Technically it should do a lot more because its supposed to proc up to 5 times and each stacks.  However, I havent seen this happening and thus its potential is only about 20% of what it should be then.</P> <P> </P>

[Persi]

<DIV>Khaylasta wrote:</DIV> <DIV>"Supposed to proc 5 times"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Key phrase  there is "supposed to", and now it isn't. So, in conclusion, its useless <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>But I do see your point and I hope they can fix this problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Orontes Thestud</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>40 Human Assassin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unrest</DIV>

[Skratttt]

<P>Yeah i concurr...maybe il abandon my rant for more Upfront dmg/faster ticks from frontal dots (they are a waste on mobs cause of long dot....specially the seeping line does need to finish BEFORE you can recast though or else you loose max dmg)</P> <P>Maybe i should start picketing for higher dmg from both MON/PB....they are pathetic atm....</P> <P>Oh yeah i see mainly that the damage curve of our upgrades SUCKS .......(exept for Deathly blade)</P> <P> </P>

[Persi]

<DIV>Yea since we use Mask of Night and Punch Blade such a high percentage of the time, upping the damage on those spells would definitely increase our dps, but I don't know if it would be a significant increase or not. But hey, any increase is a good thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Orontes Thestud</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>40 Human Assassin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unrest</DIV>

[dea]

There is nothing wrong with the Mark line, it works very nicely as a damage adder. Our class is perhaps a little borked, but our damage output is pretty close to where it should be -- I would just prefer to see it in our CAs instead of our auto-attack damage. <div></div>

[Persi]

<DIV>Yea good point</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Orontes Thestud</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>40 Human Assassin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unrest</DIV>

[dea]

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=38&message.id=3286&jump=true Assassin almost catching a Ranger. Posted by a friendly Ranger from Butcherblock. <div></div>

[Gorhauth]

<span><blockquote><hr>deaks wrote:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=38&message.id=3286&jump=true Assassin almost catching a Ranger. Posted by a friendly Ranger from Butcherblock. <hr></blockquote>Did that ranger use their 900sec recast spell to get that high?  If not the 8k+ hit from assassinate doesn't really count as a long term parse. </span><div></div>

[Skratttt]

<DIV>Oh but check it out the Ranger did a whole 10k more dmg than the assassin.......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ranger 65k dmg</DIV> <DIV>Assassin using every single atack he has 55k dmg....how can doing 18% less total damage be almost catching???? (thats why i hate statalizer it can make a fake dps rating if you dont atack till end of fight with ur big hitters)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah and if assassinate were down u can kiss goodbye 16% of that parse #......8k less thats a measly 47k total dmg vs 65kdmg</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>allmost catching would be 64k to 65k</DIV><p>Message Edited by Skratttt on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:26 PM</span>

[Aienaa]

<P>Ok, where is the piercing or slashing damage from using auto attack?</P> <P>Where is the poison damage, or did the Assassin not use poison??</P> <P>No weapon procs?  Am I to assume that the Assassin has something other than Cobalt weapons...</P> <P>Combat art damage does not = displayed total damage....  So that program does not show you Auto attack, procs or poison damages?</P> <P> </P> <P>I'll stick to EQCompanion</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 60 Assassin  /  Parody - 54 Troubador</P>

[khalysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <P>Combat art damage does not = displayed total damage....  So that program does not show you Auto attack, procs or poison damages?<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It does display all of that auto attack is just the first 1-2 lines below the name which isnt shown.  Swipe is a proc and other things might be hidden by the scroll since the full thing isnt shown.  I should add in one of those evil splitter bars to resize that window I suppose.  A much better display would have been the group window after a few hours of fighting.  Thats where the real information lies since its a clear picture over time instead of one individual battle which might have seen the highs of one versus the lows of another class.

[dparker7]

<DIV>That parse merely shows that we're far far behind where we should be.  If the assassin uses BOTH a 5 minute and 15 minute skill and still winds up well behind the ranger even though he attacked for 2 less seconds, where do you think he falls on the DPS range on the next fight?  Using both of those skills should put us firmly ontop of the standings for that particular fight, not 10% behind.</DIV>

[Persi]

<P>Why over analyze this? Bottom line is we use our 5 and 15 min recast time skills and are still far behind rangers in dps.  I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to see that this is the case.</P> <P> </P> <P>Orontes Thestud</P> <P>40 Human Assassin</P> <P>Unrest</P><p>Message Edited by Persis4 on <span class=date_text>11-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:44 PM</span>

[Skratttt]

<DIV>^^^^ thank you  My point exactly........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We canot even TOUCH their dps using our 15 min recast + 5 min</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We not 10% but 18% behind.....in >>>>BEST CASE SCENARIO<<<<</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DO WE NEED ANY MORE EVIDENCE???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(btw statalizer will put the mele + the poison on top if he used bow and he got poison proc and a hit with bow)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>