Current State of the Assassin [Archive] - Page 2

Aienaa

12-24-2005, 05:23 PM

<DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>1) our 3 mele dots need 2 things....higher dmg per tick (lingering blow had 2 dots not 1..it was 2x more effective)....and to do their total damage in HALF the time (faster ticks) like the murdurers assault line (thats what makes that ae so great now)</FONT></P> <P>I totally agree with this... maybe boost the damage a bit and definatly reduce the duration of the dot.... as it is right now, I can put my dots of a seperate mob, kill 2 others and by the time I get back to the one I dotted, the dots are just falling off.... That is about the only way I can take advantage of the uncoltrolled bleeding of the one dot....</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>2) our offensive stance needs to proc A LOT more.....1 time every 3rd fight DOES NOT CUT IT.....rogues offensive stance is 25%.....Rangers is 30% (and from bow which means its like 60% from CA'S) ours 10%????? WHY?? every class offensive stance with proc is at least 25% from dps classes (brawlers included)</FONT></P> <P>Our proc rate definatly needs an increase.... Don't think much more needs to be said here, as there is nothing that hasn't already been said....</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>3) Murderous Design line needs to be cast RAID WIDE.......but limited to 1 MD effect adding hate to the MT....</FONT></P> <P>I agree 100% with this.... I either end up killing my group members if I use it, or killing myself if I don't, and as it is right now, putting it on the 1 person in the raid that really should have it is out of the question as Assassin are never included in the MT group....</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>4)Assailing blast dmg is pathetic compared to pre LU13 faltering blast (and i have master 1 assailing)......i would leave the damage here if they gave it a Stun effect like Flashy throw......you know if 2nd arrow misses no stun......we are in dire need of a 2nd stun</FONT> </P> <P>Another option here would be to add a 3rd arrow shot to it at the current damage</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>5)Positional atacks need to be revised......we are predators...we require stealth, position is required for rogue classes....why do we have to suffer both penalties of rogues and predators for most all our main atacks??? Crippling strike line needs to be Non positional, same with the VIPER line of bow shots</FONT></P> <P>They need to do something about this... we currently only have 4 ways to go stealth and 2 of them (Mask of Night and Concealment) do not always place you in stealth.... Of the remaining 2, 1 of them (Hunt) is an extreamly long cast time and the other is one of our agro reducers (Improved Surviel).... You also can't forget that our Mark line will also break stealth, and other buggy instances where you drop out of stealth for no reason.... We also have nearly twice the number of attacks as we have ways to actually enter stealth</P> <P>Another thing that needs to be addressed is Flanking vs Directly Behind.... Off the top of my head I can think of 2 that require Directly Behind (Spitting Asp and Cripple Strike).... Directly Behind is not always achievable for various reason (nearby encounters, obsticles and ect) which effects Spitting Asp more than Cripple Strike.... But, the arc of what is considered Directly Behind effects Cripple Strike more than Spitting Asp.... The farther away from the mob you are, the more room you have to play with and still be considered Directly Behind, so it is alot easier to be Directly Behind with Spitting Asp.... BUT, when you have to be in Melee Rang to use Cripple Strike, the area of play is so small that there is no room for error thus making your positioning extreamly critical.... I would much rather see Directly Behind be removed for both attacks, as Flanking should be more than enough restriction, but if nothing else it MUST be removed from Cripple Strike because there is basicly only 1 place you can stand behind the mob and it land and if your off by a fraction of a centimeter you get the must be behind message... Personally Since Cripple Strike is one of our Debuffs, I would much rather see any positional requirment removed, because as it is now it's basicly a useless CA in solo situation where we could definatly use all the debuffing we can get....</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Valor - Kithicor</P></DIV>

silentpsycho

12-24-2005, 06:16 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR>WEll<BR><BR>According to deak we are doing 1k DPS on raid,<BR><BR>Guess SOE is done fixing us then...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Anyone care to post a parse or tell us how we are hitting these numbers? If we're "fixed" after LU 18, then the assasin's mark change is doing much more than I thought it would... Or, is this sarcasim?

Poochymama

12-25-2005, 03:19 AM

<P><A href="http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt" target=_blank>http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt</A> (Thx Cuva)</P> <P>There is a parse of an assasin doing over 1.3k dps.</P> <P>These numbers are not fantasy they are reality.</P> <p>Message Edited by Poochymama p on <span class=date_text>12-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:20 PM</span>

silentpsycho

12-25-2005, 04:28 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote:<BR> <P><A href="http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt" target=_blank>http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt</A> (Thx Cuva)</P> <P>There is a parse of an assasin doing over 1.3k dps.</P> <P>These numbers are not fantasy they are reality.</P> <P>Message Edited by Poochymama p on <SPAN class=date_text>12-24-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:20 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Two things.</P> <P>First, the link doesn't work - there is no data there, just the ihud home page.</P> <P>Second, one fight parse does not mean that this is the class' DPS. As was pointed out to you in other threads, these numbers are highly subjective; what buffs were applied? What kind of gear, poisons, etc.?</P> <P>I'm actually kind of looking forward to doing an analysis of this single battle so I can figure out exactly what planets and moons have to align to achieve this sort of damage; even if it is only for a single fight.</P> <P>Of course, in pursuing your agenda you claim to see assasins doing this sort of damage routinely; a notion which won't survive long among people who actually play the class.</P>

Poochymama

12-25-2005, 04:32 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote:<BR> <P><A href="http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt" target=_blank>http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt</A> (Thx Cuva)</P> <P>There is a parse of an assasin doing over 1.3k dps.</P> <P>These numbers are not fantasy they are reality.</P> <P>Message Edited by Poochymama p on <SPAN class=date_text>12-24-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:20 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Two things.</P> <P>First, the link doesn't work - there is no data there, just the ihud home page.</P> <P>Second, one fight parse does not mean that this is the class' DPS. As was pointed out to you in other threads, these numbers are highly subjective; what buffs were applied? What kind of gear, poisons, etc.?</P> <P>I'm actually kind of looking forward to doing an analysis of this single battle so I can figure out exactly what planets and moons have to align to achieve this sort of damage; even if it is only for a single fight.</P> <P>Of course, in pursuing your agenda you claim to see assasins doing this sort of damage routinely; a notion which won't survive long among people who actually play the class.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>First of all the link does work. See the little link on that page that says download? Click it.</P> <P>Second of all Cuva stated that their assasin can do these numbers every fight not just once every 15 min.</P> <P>And finally as for your last statement I do play the class and I also play a wizard and I can plainly see that my assasin can easily out dps my wizard every fight.</P>

12-25-2005, 04:35 AM

<DIV>*sigh* reading is not your strongest point is it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or does "Your Download Is Ready (Link At Bottom Of Page)" not mean the same to you as it does to me?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I answered most of your questions in the other threads. I'm done with you now cause you're one of those people who just believes what they want to believe, no matter how much evidence the other side brings. Predators are the only true tier 1 DPS in raids when properly buffed, I have hundreds of parses proving that statement. I could have uploaded a random other fight and the assassin would still be top DPS. But /shrug, I have already wasted too much of my time on this. Believe what you want to believe and keep on whining.</DIV>

Poochymama

12-25-2005, 04:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It has pretty much been established silentpsyco that either you or your raidleader doesnt know the assasin class very well. Atleast not well enough to know that in a good group that an assasin can sustain 1k + dps every fight and spike way beyond that when speacials are up.</P> <P>Someone in your guild has to be on crack to put a wizard in a melee dps group over an assasin. LOL</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Message Edited by Poochymama p on <SPAN class=date_text>12-24-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:35 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Poochymama p on <span class=date_text>12-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:43 PM</span>

silentpsycho

12-25-2005, 05:23 AM

<P>I know my class just fine. That's not the issue. Asside from figuring out exactly which buffs I need to tripple or quadruple my DPS on raids, I'd say I play the Assasin class pretty well. For example, I have no idea what my "auto attack DPS" is, because I don't play that way, ever. </P> <P>The issue is that during your pursuit of your "buff wizard" agenda, you dragged Assasins in to it to try to make a point. The problem is, you picked a class that has well documented DPS issues to contrast with. If you had picked any of the classes that are actually out DPS'ing the Tier 1 damage dealers, I'd have no problem. However, I feel it's important to correct the misconception (that Assasin's are one of the only Tier 1 DPS class that are actually doing Tier 1 DPS) before it convinces the dev's that Assasin DPS is fine.</P> <P>Obviously, because you've "seen" an Assasin do 1300 DPS consistently on every fight, it must be true. Yeah, right.</P> <P>If your premise were that Wizards are constrained by not having aggro control or transfer abilities, heck, I'd probably agree with you and try to help (esp. since I play both classes); but your argument is that raw DPS capabilities are unequal (which I agree with, but I think you have backwards).</P> <P>Assasinate - 5K Damage every 900 seconds - 5.56 DPS (if your behind the mob, and in stealth)</P> <P>Ice Comet - 5K Damage every 45+4 seconds - 102.04 DPS (no matter where you stand or what you do)</P> <P>Wizards are constantly out DPS'ed by Assasins - priceless.</P>

Skratttt

12-25-2005, 07:18 AM

<DIV>Dont feed the troll is the rule yes but......we know wizzards have problems ...we are not saying they dont....just that we also have problems...focus your energies positively :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Poochymama

12-25-2005, 08:47 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> silentpsycho wrote:<BR> <P>I know my class just fine. That's not the issue. Asside from figuring out exactly which buffs I need to tripple or quadruple my DPS on raids, I'd say I play the Assasin class pretty well. For example, I have no idea what my "auto attack DPS" is, because I don't play that way, ever. </P> <P>The issue is that during your pursuit of your "buff wizard" agenda, you dragged Assasins in to it to try to make a point. The problem is, you picked a class that has well documented DPS issues to contrast with. If you had picked any of the classes that are actually out DPS'ing the Tier 1 damage dealers, I'd have no problem. However, I feel it's important to correct the misconception (that Assasin's are one of the only Tier 1 DPS class that are actually doing Tier 1 DPS) before it convinces the dev's that Assasin DPS is fine.</P> <P>Obviously, because you've "seen" an Assasin do 1300 DPS consistently on every fight, it must be true. Yeah, right.</P> <P>If your premise were that Wizards are constrained by not having aggro control or transfer abilities, heck, I'd probably agree with you and try to help (esp. since I play both classes); but your argument is that raw DPS capabilities are unequal (which I agree with, but I think you have backwards).</P> <P>Assasinate - 5K Damage every 900 seconds - 5.56 DPS (if your behind the mob, and in stealth)</P> <P>Ice Comet - 5K Damage every 45+4 seconds - 102.04 DPS (no matter where you stand or what you do)</P> <P>Wizards are constantly out DPS'ed by Assasins - priceless.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Its not just me thats saying they have seen an assasin parse 1.3k every fight. Its everybody in that thread thats in a raiding guild besides you. But since you cant do that much it must not be possible right? There are many assasins that can do 1.3k dps, but obviously you arent one of them. You can only do 350-600 lol. Once again get yourself in a good group and with any skill you will easily be able to break 1k dps so that definately is the issue. If an assasin can do 1k + dps every fight while a wizard caps at 800 no matter what then obviously assasins are better. And wizards arent constrained by aggro abilities they are constrained by casting times and the inability to be buffed. You asked for a post of an assasin doing 1300 dps and you got it. Now here is a challenge for you show me a wizard doing even 1000 dps on a single target on a mob that has 100k hp or more.</P> <P>You even saw a parse of an assasin doing 1.3k dps and were offered to be shown more. I dont know what assasin you play but my assasin is tier 1. I will agree that they are not on par with rangers and need to be up. But if assasins are doing 1k plus dps then they are obviously not as bad off as wizards, </P> <P>And also why do you keep skewing the facts on assasinate vs. ice comet? Why cant you just post the real numbers. I agree that ice comet is better as far as dps over time but still why the need to skew the numbers?</P> <P>If your gona say assasinate does 5k then you need to say ice comet does 3k. ONCE AGAIN JUST LIKE I TOLD YOU IN THE OTHER THREAD ITS</P> <P><BR>Ice comet 3221- 5983</P> <P>Assasinate 4888-8148</P>

Poochymama

12-25-2005, 08:49 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skratttt wrote:<BR> <DIV>Dont feed the troll is the rule yes but......we know wizzards have problems ...we are not saying they dont....just that we also have problems...focus your energies positively :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know assasins have problems as I play one but saying we are as gimped as wizards is just a flat out lie to keep us from getting nerfed. ( or keep wizards from sharing our glory). Most assasins I know see 800 dps and go "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] I wonder why I did so bad" while our wizards jump for joy when they hit 800.

Skratttt

12-25-2005, 12:21 PM

<P>Like i stated in the other thread ...post lu 18 most of the capabilities that made those consistant dps numbers went way down.......(aka the offhand weapon nerf, which btw broke a lot of class abilities that were not intended to be nerfed. l;ike brawlers offensive and taunt stances, rogues deagro proc and offensive stance..to name a few).......</P> <P>If you notice the list of our skills i wrote would not make a HUGE diff raidwise but it would make us more consistent in every day run of the mill dps without the "perfect group" scenario..mainly in solo and group situations...</P>

Poochymama

12-25-2005, 12:41 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skratttt wrote:<BR> <P>Like i stated in the other thread ...post lu 18 most of the capabilities that made those consistant dps numbers went way down.......(aka the offhand weapon nerf, which btw broke a lot of class abilities that were not intended to be nerfed. l;ike brawlers offensive and taunt stances, rogues deagro proc and offensive stance..to name a few).......</P> <P>If you notice the list of our skills i wrote would not make a HUGE diff raidwise but it would make us more consistent in every day run of the mill dps without the "perfect group" scenario..mainly in solo and group situations...</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Like I said in the other thread this is after live update 18. Our dps actually went up because of exposing mark.

Dragonsviperz

12-27-2005, 05:01 AM

<DIV>Aye, i love mark, its insane, most procs i think i've seen was like 7-8 for 400-600 dmg each and highest dmg was 800. Plus our dps has gone up from DB timer down, the 6% dmg reducer i haven't noticed at all really, i've been hitting 6-8K on raids consistently, given that i wait for my brig to say he had debuffed the mob. </DIV>

pczry

12-29-2005, 02:07 AM

Disptach INC. go go tig, you have 12secs to DB!!!

Dragonsviperz

12-30-2005, 09:14 AM

dea

12-31-2005, 11:12 AM

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:WEllAccording to deak we are doing 1k DPS on raid,Guess SOE is done fixing us then...<hr></blockquote></span><i>judged_one</i> -- does this mean you are actually reading my posts now?!?! And by the way, the screen name is deak<u>s</u>. Seriously folks, lets step back for a second. Here's a recap of recent posts as I see it. Take it as you will, ignore me if it suits you. We can do decent damage. Is it as effortless as the Ranger? Of course not. Are we saying that our DPS seems to take more work to realize? Yes, that would be what we are getting at. Yes some of our CAs that were very good pre-CU have not been restored. If our frontal DoT and ranged attacks were made more useful we would be overjoyed. Is this necessary for us to deal consistently high DPS? Some say no. In the cases that Assassins are dealing consistently high DPS the reports say they have guilds that can support them with well made groups to capitalize on their skills -- not all guilds can do that, I understand your frustrations if you are in such a guild that cannot. Under the right circumstances, our own people are telling us that they can do very well. My conclusion is that Assassins can excel, but as usual there is a catch -- you need appropriate support classes to deal damage without generating too much aggro and to achieve the right buffs. Now, here is where balance is called into question. You have to ask yourself if you feel that other classes have to deal with these requirements to meet their damage potential. If your ranger consistently deals damage, does he get aggro without the right support classes? Are your Wizards with theoretically high DPS attacks actually achieving 1k+ DPS on single target mobs and living to tell about it? Are you? What other classes require a portion of their group as support classes to realize their potential (tanks, some mages, healers)? I think the real inequality is still centered around Rangers. I still believe that they deal solid Tier 1 DPS with very few restrictions (need for additional aggro reduction being the obvious restriction). I'm not sure our consistent (different than sustained, don't confuse the two) DPS being on-par with Ranger sustained damage will ever work, I said as much immediately after the CU (i.e. that we need to be where Rangers are, but I can't see that happening without overpowering us -- I don't want to see Rangers nerfed but I'm not sure there is another way to equal the playing field for all damage dealers than to prune the outlier). Now we are getting reports that our consistent DPS *can* indeed be in the range that our Rangers are parsing, the problem is only that we need a solid group and they really don't -- we need to be jousting (or else be equipped for stamina/wisdom with solid str/int buffs) while they can sit at range. I don't think anyone seriously thinks that Rangers should need to joust or jockey around to deal their damage. But what I believe people are asking for (even outside the Assassin community) is some kind of compensatory damage dealing for the need to joust, with the obvious comparisons being made to Rangers who deal high DPS while avoiding the need to run in and out. Personally I don't see a problem with melee characters dealing sustained or consistent DPS to exceed their ranged counterparts, it is ample compensation for the requirement of jousting in EQ2 and hopefully leaves the ranged classes time to make use of any utility capabilities they may have. In some cases, these utility powers are poor or non-existent (Rangers), here comes the ugly balancing act -- I can't propose a solution, but I can say that out DPSing the crowd forced to run in and out is only going to lead to whining and ill will. Well this got a bit preachier than I had hoped, some of it is random thoughts as I wrote and others observations from the boards as I had planned. I'm off to continue enjoying my Holiday. Happy Holidays to you all.<div></div>Edited for formatting.<p>Message Edited by deaks on <span class=date_text>12-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:13 PM</span>

Craien

12-31-2005, 11:57 AM

Nicely worded deaks.

Abrez

01-02-2006, 10:52 AM

Personaly Assassins are fine dont mess with them one bit. Its not my fault these other wana be assassins cant play the class better. Sure i loose to a ranger in duels most the time not i said most. But i feel i am well up to par with everyone we raid i put out some high dmg. Leave the ASSASSIN class alone now. And for those that are still complaining figure out how to play one better.<div></div>

judged_one

01-04-2006, 12:11 AM

Deaks All I have to say is you're [Removed for Content] upside the head to remotely think that we are doing 1k plus at raid.Stop using ACT, and try another parser. Or learn how to configurate your parser.FYI, someone tried ACT in Raid and I was doing 1300 DPS, but guess what he was wrong,after comparing parser he quickly realize that his parser is adding at least 50% more damage.I was actually doing 800ish.And no I am not happy with my DPS, cause our conjuror and Rangers were doing 850+and the swashy was doing 780.If my DPS is at 850 with the ranger and the conjuror is at 780 with the swashy then it is correct.Now go back and reconfig your parser.

Kokus

01-04-2006, 12:57 AM

CSM reporting 1k+ dps.

Poochymama

01-04-2006, 05:03 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR>Deaks <BR><BR>All I have to say is you're [Removed for Content] upside the head to remotely think that we are doing 1k plus at raid.<BR>Stop using ACT, and try another parser. Or learn how to configurate your parser.<BR><BR>FYI, someone tried ACT in Raid and I was doing 1300 DPS, but guess what he was wrong,<BR>after comparing parser he quickly realize that his parser is adding at least 50% more damage.<BR><BR>I was actually doing 800ish.<BR><BR>And no I am not happy with my DPS, cause our conjuror and Rangers were doing 850+<BR>and the swashy was doing 780.<BR><BR>If my DPS is at 850 with the ranger and the conjuror is at 780 with the swashy then it is correct.<BR><BR>Now go back and reconfig your parser.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL our assasin does 1k dps every fight.

Forsaken Falc

01-04-2006, 06:29 AM

<P>Can You ppl claime to do 1k dps PLEAS~!!!!!! SCREEN SHOT AND POST PROOF~!!!!!!!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>othere wise I and many othere missmay it as an LIE</P>

Forsaken Falc

01-04-2006, 06:30 AM

<P>Dranonsviperz Wrote "I hate you Bell.."</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Poor Bell.</P>

Carna

01-04-2006, 06:49 AM

<DIV>There's several parses posted. People are posting parses in the three main threads addressing this issue. You could call posts without parses a lie in the same way many of your assertions could be called a lie.... I'm still waiting for your parse of a Brigand topping 1.3k</DIV>

Poochymama

01-04-2006, 08:29 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Forsaken Falcon wrote:<BR> <P>Can You ppl claime to do 1k dps PLEAS~!!!!!! SCREEN SHOT AND POST PROOF~!!!!!!!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>othere wise I and many othere missmay it as an LIE</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ok, well lets see what we got.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>there is this one <A href="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/1kdps.jpg" target=_blank>http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/1kdps.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and also this one <A href="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/consistant1kdps-.jpg" target=_blank>http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/consistant1kdps-.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and this one <A href="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/2kdps.jpg" target=_blank>http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/2kdps.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah and dont forget this one</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt" target=_blank>http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=241205/1135444127/eq2log_aktehut.txt</A></DIV>

MystaSkrat

01-04-2006, 10:25 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Poochymama p wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV>Ok, well lets see what we got.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>there is this one <A href="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/1kdps.jpg" target=_blank>http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/1kdps.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and also this one <A href="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/consistant1kdps-.jpg" target=_blank>http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/consistant1kdps-.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and this one <A href="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/2kdps.jpg" target=_blank>http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Mystaskratch/2kdps.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Doh! You beat me to my own pictures :smileytongue:</DIV>

twiddlethumb

01-04-2006, 01:22 PM

Off topic:Parses like Skratch's are entertaining, but mean very little to me about the assassin class.In general, I don't know the player's level, gear, adept/master skill levels, and group class-makeup, what buffs the parsed assassin had on him, nor what debuffs were on the mobs. Etc.Raid parses mean even less, because of added debuffs - unless one would compare many different player's parses with similar raid/group layout, on the same mob. /shrugAll that Skratch's parses say to me is that his Silent City x2 group worked well. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />On topic (Current State of the Assassin):Groups are working well for me.But, I gave up on soloing. In my opinion, we are plain bad at it.Also, I have great difficulty keeping up on AE raids. I only do decent damage when using crafted t6 arrows, or when I'm consistently in melee range.Of course, in melee range I am quickly toasty and crisp. And when using those arrows, I'm quickly poor, even though I make them, and t6 legendary poisons myself. T5 arrows are expensive, t6 are just too much to craft and use all the time.

NerroVI

01-04-2006, 02:45 PM

I play my assassin just fine and we are not fine, unless we are in perfect groups and surronded by classes to put us at our peak damage. Nice try though. YOU might think assassins are just fine, I personally think they aren't done screwing the class over, and the class was close to fine about 2 ish months ago, when they fixed dual wield, but once again they had to then go and remove pois on 2nd wep. If they had left 2ndary poison, lowered DB to 3 mins LEFT the damage alone, put crippling strike in as it was and put murderous raid wide, you wouldn't see near the post by ppl about the class, but for every 1 thing they fix, they turn around and tweak or flat nerf 2 more things <here we will lower timer on DB, oh btw lets take the damage down, ohh will fix DW, ohh lets remove pois from 2nd wep, list goes on> Of those parses please point out who was in the group once again when those were taken. Once again slowly in small letters. We can do great DPS, unfortunatelly it is only on select mobs in select situations, it IS NOT consistent, and we have the most extreme limitations placed on us then any other class has to deal with, in order to do our big damage we must be stealthed, 90% of mobs in game tagged group encounters even non raid have some type of assault barage etc and break our stealth, while it is not every single tme it is enough that it is noticed. Anyway there are going to be ppl that think we are the best thing since sliced bread, people like me who think we are about right but are tired of the constant changes to things that dont need touched and ignoring the things that DO need addressed and are basically done, and people who will scream that we are far from finished. <div></div>

Kokus

01-04-2006, 08:59 PM

<DIV>I happen to think we provide the most consistent dps of any other class. Huge differences of opinion here.. Actually surprises me.</DIV>

judged_one

01-04-2006, 09:43 PM

YeaAll it proves is that you can use you assassinate and deathly blade on a so call x4 gimped mob...People like you mysta is full of sht...I notice that you also put up a Kruthuk the Golden Parse with a duration of 30ish seconds... I can stand afk for the first minute of fight and wait to the last 30 sec and drop all my big atack and reach 1k+ tooPlease, all you are doing is lieing to yourself...And to prove to your guild that they should bring you to a raid.Pretty sad...With 2 different parser in SCx4 during a 4 hours duration 2 assassins parsed average of 725, That includes 3 names spawned.Why don't you go parse your self on a t1 zone with assassinate...

judged_one

01-04-2006, 09:48 PM

<blockquote><hr>Poochymama p wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR>Deaks <BR><BR>All I have to say is you're [Removed for Content] upside the head to remotely think that we are doing 1k plus at raid.<BR>Stop using ACT, and try another parser. Or learn how to configurate your parser.<BR><BR>FYI, someone tried ACT in Raid and I was doing 1300 DPS, but guess what he was wrong,<BR>after comparing parser he quickly realize that his parser is adding at least 50% more damage.<BR><BR>I was actually doing 800ish.<BR><BR>And no I am not happy with my DPS, cause our conjuror and Rangers were doing 850+<BR>and the swashy was doing 780.<BR><BR>If my DPS is at 850 with the ranger and the conjuror is at 780 with the swashy then it is correct.<BR><BR>Now go back and reconfig your parser.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL our assasin does 1k dps every fight. <hr></blockquote>"wow so you assassin doesn 1k dps exactly everyfight???not 1.1 k or 1.5k or .8k...Hey lol our assassin doesn't 1k dps every fight.Do you even play an assassin, or are you a wizard spy doing you propaganda to increase your DPS.

Kokus

01-04-2006, 10:16 PM

<DIV>Such harsh posts here. Seriously, stop flaming other people here. It is quite possible to consistently get 1k+ dps in a raid situation on longer fights as an assassin. If you're regularly on the guk.assassin channel, you may have seen a night where I post parses of several fights. I've posted a parse for a minute + long fight where I parsed ~1300dps in poets palace the return so I assure you that it is very possible to achieve. Get the latest version of CSM. You can put in an option at the top where it displays the length of the fight when you post the parse data. Very useful in my opinion. The new CSM also snags everyone in the entire raid, and just puts the top 6 in the 'copy/pasted' parse. Check it out. <A href="http://csm.shadowydomain.com/" target=_blank>http://csm.shadowydomain.com/</A></DIV>

MystaSkrat

01-05-2006, 02:54 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> judged_one wrote:<BR>Yea<BR><BR>All it proves is that you can use you assassinate and deathly blade on a so call x4 gimped mob...<BR>People like you mysta is full of sht...<BR><BR>I notice that you also put up a Kruthuk the Golden Parse with a duration of 30ish seconds... <BR><BR>I can stand afk for the first minute of fight and wait to the last 30 sec and drop all my big atack and reach 1k+ too<BR><BR>Please, all you are doing is lieing to yourself...And to prove to your guild that they should bring you to a raid.<BR><BR>Pretty sad...<BR><BR>With 2 different parser in SCx4 during a 4 hours duration 2 assassins parsed average of 725, That includes 3 names spawned.<BR><BR>Why don't you go parse your self on a t1 zone with assassinate...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Seriously, are you mentally handicapped? I don't even see Assassinate on those parses anywhere, the one that's 2k has Deathly Blade and no Finishing Blow, so it would have been that high anyway. As for the 19 seconds, guess what, genius? IT DIED IN 19 SECONDS. Try looking at overall damage sometime.... yea 19 seconds....yea 40,000 damage, gee, maybe that's why it was only 19 seconds.....I'm sorry you can only parse 725 average in SC, it's clear that the top end assassins playing the game atm can hit 1k on a pretty consistant basis, guess you're just not top end /shrug</P> <P>PS. Uh, yea, i'll go parse on a t1 zone with assassinate.... that brings a lot of intelligence to your post....<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class=date_text>01-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:14 PM</span>

pczry

01-05-2006, 03:32 AM

lol thanks for the reminder Falcon ;p

Forsaken Falc

01-05-2006, 03:55 AM

<P>Oh Im sorry <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I mistook You'r word's of You DPS 1k+ in raid's too be "You DPS 1k+ for MEANINGFULL RAIDS"</P> <P>A fight lasting bearly over an minuet isn't surporting You'r claime's. Here is an exsample...</P> <P> </P> <P><IMG src="http://www.xlsite.com/forsakenfalcon/DPS.JPG"></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did I DPS 4838 in 1 Second there for Out DPSing You'r current score?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Forsaken Falcon on <span class=date_text>01-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:05 PM</span>

MystaSkrat

01-05-2006, 04:07 AM

<P>Once again - look at the total damage, not just the dps, and also, I find it very rare if a fight (besides the trash cows in PPR) lasts over 60 seconds</P> <P>BTW - 4838 x1 second doesn't beat 2000 x 19 seconds :smileytongue:</P><p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class=date_text>01-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:18 PM</span>

Forsaken Falc

01-05-2006, 04:23 AM

Iv never realy was an Person too take time intoo consideration but I'm guessing Lockjaw is over an 60 second fight as is that juggler in the COA raid zone, GAA in LT has alot of mob's in which an Assassin just simply can not get close too for too long with out dieing in 2 hit's (that snake in that dam water channel >&lt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

Forsaken Falc

01-05-2006, 04:27 AM

<DIV> <P>Once again - look at the total damage, not just the dps, and also, I find it very rare if a fight (besides the trash cows in PPR) lasts over 60 seconds</P> <P>BTW - 4838 x1 second doesn't beat 2000 x 19 seconds <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <SPAN class=date_text>01-04-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:18 PM</SPAN> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Oh soo I'm guessing the Assassin in them phaseing was doing them Raid's Soloing??? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P></DIV>

Kokus

01-05-2006, 04:33 AM

<DIV>Whoa forsaken falcon.. all of those raids are easily fights that assassins can stay in on the entire fight with proper resists (i use a set of mitigation gear to stay in against lockjaw)</DIV>

MystaSkrat

01-05-2006, 04:33 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Forsaken Falcon wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Oh soo I'm guessing the Assassin in them phaseing was doing them Raid's Soloing??? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Nope. The assassin is me, and i was just making a point that overall damage is the more important number here, not simply DPS. You have to look at both of them in conjunction to get a clear reading of what kind of numbers you're putting out. Last time we did Lockjaw, it took 1:04, i guess you got me there :smileytongue: (i hate that snake in Gates too, btw)</DIV> <DIV>Also - the parser that you're using (the one Elvann linked) actually has an option to activate a sound file when ever a specific skill (ie. Wrath of Fury, Venemous Cloud) hits, it's invaluable to me :smileyhappy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class=date_text>01-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:38 PM</span>

Forsaken Falc

01-05-2006, 04:39 AM

<DIV>Kokusho wrote = Whoa forsaken falcon.. all of those raids are easily fights that assassins can stay in on the entire fight with proper resists (i use a set of mitigation gear to stay in against lockjaw)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lockjaw's never been a problem cause it doesn't have any AE's (that i know off) & I use My De-Agro's each and every time there up. Something Like Lockjaw I know I could do 1k+ on but stuff in which I need to run away from every 30secs-1min or so I just faile too see it happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(lol 1st time I did Golden Dragon in MD it took Me longer then useaule to find out just excatly where Her back was considerd <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I was trying to backstab Her Tail)</DIV>

pczry

01-06-2006, 01:55 AM

<DIV>i turned on combat stats for the first time since dof while farming in silent city. i was very shocked and impress with my dps. i was doing constant 1k+ each fight. dont know if it was the group setup or what, but i am very happy with my dps overall. going to run some more parse later tonight in PPR, well see how that goes.</DIV>

Mastera

01-07-2006, 03:44 AM

Concerning PvP:If our skills/spells perform different from a PvE scenario to a PvE scenario, how does everyone feel Assassins will do against the other DPS classes on the new PvP server?Obviously the regular DPS battles won't fly here, but its still along lines of "State of the Assassin".<div></div>

Kokus

01-07-2006, 04:22 AM

<div>The only class I've ever had problems dueling are conjurors.. =</div>

Mastera

01-07-2006, 04:24 AM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Kokusho wrote:<div>The only class I've ever had problems dueling are conjurors.. =</div><hr></blockquote>ORLY? Not quite the answer I expected...but......sweetness!<span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span></div>

blurryfast

01-14-2006, 08:13 PM

alright, I didn't read all 14 pagesdid anyone mention crippling strike being made into a 'behind' only attack?<div></div>

dparker7

01-17-2006, 12:43 AM

<div></div>Last night in PPR the ranger did over 7 million total damage (cost him an ungodly amount in poison and arrows), the Conjurer did just over 3 million and the Brigand rounded out the top 3 with some 2.7 million. Plus, the ranger held back becaue he didnt have a troubador to help with agro. Problem with this is that the ranger is obviously broken, and 2 tier 2 DPS classes did more damage. Now, numbers of course vary slightly depending on which person in the raid is parsing, but in general, this was the breakdown of the top 3.

judged_one

01-26-2006, 08:33 PM

Anyone wondering why most of T6 dw have 0 proc?and most gear only have FT?Only 3 I know that actually proc1.)Desert Skewer2.)Royal Embalmer3.)Foreman ShankAnd the foreman shank is the best, lolI can solo mob easiler now cause it will keep on procing when I do my back CA.And then there is the prixy 2.0<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">01-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:38 AM</span></p>

dea

01-26-2006, 11:53 PM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:Anyone wondering why most of T6 dw have 0 proc?and most gear only have FT?Only 3 I know that actually proc1.)Desert Skewer2.)Royal Embalmer3.)Foreman ShankAnd the foreman shank is the best, lolI can solo mob easiler now cause it will keep on procing when I do my back CA.And then there is the prixy 2.0<p>Message Edited by judged_one on <span class="date_text">01-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:38 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span>aITEM -1190191291 Arazul's Ceremonial Dagger:Arazul's Ceremonial Dagger/aaITEM 428136957 Foreman's Shank:Foreman's Shank/aaITEM -1393002211 Desert Skewer<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />esert Skewer/aaITEM -1420604237 Khanda of the Royal Embalmer:Khanda of the Royal Embalmer/aaITEM -648255239 Dark Fury Sabre of Anuk<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />ark Fury Sabre of Anuk/aYou missed the Ceremonial Dagger, these are all of the ones I'm aware of.</div>

kayerqua

02-03-2006, 02:49 AM

<div>Hey long time reader.. long time owning assassin .. first time poster.. deaks owns .. kokusho rocks .. and so is mystaskratch .. obviously 3 people who have learned to do what assassins need to be succesful dps ....</div><div> </div><div>all of your whiny under1kdps posts sicken me... so what if a ranger beats us on a mob we have to joust the aoe on... we are more consistent.. and whenever i get beat by a ranger.. im number 2.. and i know i did that dps in half the time of ideal battle than tha ranger had... i</div><div> </div><div> can take a single hit from any ae in DoF with resist gear ... so theres our one chance to get out and get healed.. dont complain about being oneshotted.. get gear.. and also .. when forced to joust an AoE... i maximize use of Procing weapons / Shield procs on attack / Adestes / and always the handy brigand... because doing massive dps at critical time.. is what being an assassin is all about... and no more ranger talk on this forum... rangers dream about being assassins at night because they arent as much fun to play</div><div> </div><div>peace out</div><div> </div><div>an no more crying on forums.. spend the time u would be b*tching... learning to play the best class and dps there is</div><div> </div><div>Ty MUCH</div><div> </div><div>and please continue with the intelligent discussion on assassin from the experienced assassins</div><div> </div><div>and i have seen all our beta AA's in action .. omg the wait will soon be over for you all who want to be not just consisent.. and not just on top.. but consisently on top..</div><div> </div><div>the technique names were enough to make me excited... fatality doing 30k at 150 str... /drool...</div><div> </div><div>Kayer</div><div>~Only Assassin of Ethereal Legacy~</div><div>Lvl. 60 ( soon to be ww first 70 assassin)</div><div>of Shadowhaven ( soon to be Bazaar) Lol</div>

big da

02-04-2006, 05:45 AM

<div></div>Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger Ranger RangerSorry that was for <a href="../view_profile?user.id=202980" target="_blank"><span>kayerquano</span></a>'s benefit <span>:smileyvery-happy:Now there's a guy that likes his Assassin. Truth is i like mine as well. There are times in raids especially when there is a total rangefight that i have a tinge of shh don't mention the R word envy. By in large though i dont pay attention to my damage vs whoevers.We are a fun class cause it is challenging to maximize our damage what with finding the back end of a glob or book for instance( ok now where the heck is the tank in all this crowd of players so i can move opposite him or her)With the possible exception of a Surveil pull on some hard to get mob we really dont have much utility anymore. Evac is only a travelspell since the recovery of shards no longer exists. Groups or Raids just revive at the door and try again. I don't know ....some enhanced"Shadow of the Assassin raid and group inpenetrable invis or something. Other classes have all sorts of rezs and buffs and call of the heroand arrows that shoot thru walls and such. Give us a class defining utility so we re not just a dps afterthought in groups and especially raids<font color="#663399"><a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=108038102" target="_blank">Nikodimus</a></font>Lvl 60 Assassin</span><div></div>

Carna

02-04-2006, 08:52 AM

<div></div><p>I understand your point Big Dawg, but isn't what you're describing a Rogue? Isn't your lack of Rogue-like utility what justifies your extra dps?... Now I prefer balancing a bit less damage for a bit more utility hence I chose a Rogue. Did you not chose to go a different way?</p><p>I'm not trying to berate you, just offering another perspective.</p>

judged_one

02-06-2006, 10:53 PM

o what if a ranger beats us on a mob we have to joust the aoe on...we are more consistent..Hmm, Ranger is consistent, I think you got it backward. Consistent - doing a set amount of DPS regardless of AOE or mob.Sorry but most of the "real raid mob" NOT TRASH IN SC or the 40 2 up in PPTR or junk in GoTAA.FYI I hit 1.6 k on SC trash this week on these trash golems.Most of the assassins are talking about when it actually matters. For example:Snake in first court - poison aoe - 6.5k resist 3k dmg avgAnket Sphinx - Slashing aoe 3-4k with 2.5k mit + Cold Aoe(or heat cant remeber)does 3-4k [Removed for Content] 4k+ resistSun Child- Heat aoe 3-5 k with 5 k heat resistDjinn named in Prism - Magic Cloud burst thingy aoe 2-4k with 4 k magic resistThese are just some off the top of my head(an no more crying on forums.. spend the time u would be b*tching... learning to play the best class and dps there isplease continue with the intelligent discussion on assassin from the experienced assassins)VS(nd whenever i get beat by a ranger.. im number 2.. and i know i did that dps in half the time of ideal battle than tha ranger had.)Well thanks for your intelligent post, you sucessful contridict youself 3-4times in your own post.you really enlighten alot of us noob assassin here.(fatality doing 30k at 150 str... /drool...)AA - is not sub-class specific. Both pred classes share the same AA.And FYI most of the assassins posted about their class knows what they are talking about.

dea

02-07-2006, 02:54 AM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:o what if a ranger beats us on a mob we have to joust the aoe on...we are more consistent..Hmm, Ranger is consistent, I think you got it backward. Consistent - doing a set amount of DPS regardless of AOE or mob.Sorry but most of the "real raid mob" NOT TRASH IN SC or the 40 2 up in PPTR or junk in GoTAA.FYI I hit 1.6 k on SC trash this week on these trash golems.Most of the assassins are talking about when it actually matters. For example:Snake in first court - poison aoe - 6.5k resist 3k dmg avgAnket Sphinx - Slashing aoe 3-4k with 2.5k mit + Cold Aoe(or heat cant remeber)does 3-4k [Removed for Content] 4k+ resistSun Child- Heat aoe 3-5 k with 5 k heat resistDjinn named in Prism - Magic Cloud burst thingy aoe 2-4k with 4 k magic resistThese are just some off the top of my head(an no more crying on forums.. spend the time u would be b*tching... learning to play the best class and dps there isplease continue with the intelligent discussion on assassin from the experienced assassins)VS(nd whenever i get beat by a ranger.. im number 2.. and i know i did that dps in half the time of ideal battle than tha ranger had.)Well thanks for your intelligent post, you sucessful contridict youself 3-4times in your own post.you really enlighten alot of us noob assassin here.(fatality doing 30k at 150 str... /drool...)AA - is not sub-class specific. Both pred classes share the same AA.And FYI most of the assassins posted about their class knows what they are talking about.<hr></blockquote>judged_one -- I'm trying to read and comprehend but your writing is very disjoint and I find it hard to find your point. At times you seem reasonable, at times very unreasonable, something about a 30k damage attack at 150 str -- I'm sorry but its just all over the place. For a change, I'm interested in what you have to say, please form your sentances better so we can understand and comment.</span></div>

Aienaa

02-07-2006, 12:22 PM

<div>Blah, it ate my message.... I'll retype it =/</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</div><p>Message Edited by Aienaa on <span class="date_text">02-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:23 PM</span></p>

Aienaa

02-07-2006, 12:46 PM

<div></div><p>Ok, what Judged_One was talking about is how Kayer decided to come and tell everyone that they were noobs and didn't know how to play thier class... Evident by the following quotes....</p><p><font color="#ffff00">deaks owns .. kokusho rocks .. and so is mystaskratch .. obviously 3 people who have learned to do what assassins need to be succesful dps .</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">all of your whiny under1kdps posts sicken me... </font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">an no more crying on forums.. spend the time u would be b*tching... learning to play the best class and dps there is</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">and please continue with the intelligent discussion on assassin from the <strong>experienced assassins</strong></font></p><p>Judged_One Pointed out how Kayer seemed to be lacking on his information and repeatedly contradicts himself.... refering to the following....</p><p><font color="#ffff00">so what if a ranger beats us on a mob we have to joust the aoe on... <strong>we are more consistent</strong>.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">because doing massive dps at critical time.. is what being an assassin is all about.</font></p><p>Now, how can we be consistant DPS, and do Massive DPS at Critical time?? Answer is that we can't... We are burst DPS, while Rangers are consistant DPS.... And.....</p><p><font color="#ffff00">can take a single hit from any ae in DoF with resist gear ... so theres our one chance to get out and get healed.. dont complain about being oneshotted.. get gear.. and also .. when forced to joust an AoE... i maximize use of Procing weapons / Shield procs on attack / Adestes /</font></p><p>Hmmm.... What is the difference between avoiding the AE and taking the hit and then backing out to get healed.... Answer is, you just wasted someone else's time and power to heal you when you could have just avoided it...</p><p>And here is the one I love... Where Judged_One responds to Kayer's comments about how our AA skills are going to make us surpass Ranger's DPS....</p><div><font color="#ffff00">and i have seen all our beta AA's in action .. omg the wait will soon be over for you all who want to be not just consisent.. and not just on top.. but consisently on top..</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">the technique names were enough to make me excited... fatality doing 30k at 150 str... /drool...</font></div><p>ROFL, that is like saying Assassins are better at reducing hate because we have Improved Surviel and Elude (which both Predator classes have)..... Kayer doesn't seem to understand that Predators share the same AA skills, so what we get, the Rangers also get....</p><p>I think the following quote says it all.....</p><p><font size="2" color="#33ccff" face="Verdana">Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.</font> - Abraham Lincoln</p><p> </p><p>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</p><p><font size="2" face="Verdana"></font> </p>

dea

02-07-2006, 01:00 PM

Doh! Thats what I get for not re-reading the older posts for context. Thanks Gwern for sorting through the verbal diarrhea and getting to the point.<div></div>

Aienaa

02-07-2006, 03:56 PM

<div></div><p>Welcome... I pretty much ignored the original poster, but found Judged_One's response humorous...</p><p> </p><p>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor </p>

judged_one

02-07-2006, 09:14 PM

<blockquote><hr>Aienaa wrote:<div></div><p>Welcome... I pretty much ignored the original poster, but found Judged_One's response humorous...</p><p> </p><p>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor </p><hr></blockquote>Thanks!Stupid MAC at work wont let me do all the nifty post editing.Here is some interesting questions?What do you use against epic most often?1.)Weapon -consider mob is not immune or highly resist to pierce or slash- What do you like to use?2.)Poison -I use Alder for upfront dmg if I have a trob, otherwise I use non-legendary poison3.)Debuff Poison -I use HA(The slow legendary poison) usually. But I also use mental debuff.4.)2nd Debuff -Bite of the shissar for Poison DebuffAlso here is another thing I want to try at T7Go Sta instead of Str. Or a balanced Sta and Str approach.It is nice to have 6k hp at raid and survive more then 1-2 aoe.I figure lower overall aoe is probably better then no aoe, when you are on the floor.Also it saves a lot on repair.

Kokus

02-08-2006, 02:39 AM

<div>I'm surprised people still reply to this post. The initial post was about how nearly every one of our skills had a damage nerf compared to pre DoF, and since then about half have been fixed, the others ignored, but that was the original issue. So many tangents have come off of this thread but scraping blow still sucks compared to how lingering blow was, and that was the biggest change I pushed for but never got.</div><div> </div><div>As for the rest... I think there are many other threads concerning AEs, hps, stamina, dps, blah blah. The skills I wanted to see back to the level where they were pre DoF obviously aren't going to be changed. Might as well unsticky this thread and let it die as it serves no purpose other than to let other classes point and laugh about the massive nerf beating we got with DoF, and attempted to recover from.</div>

big da

02-08-2006, 06:40 AM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p>I understand your point Big Dawg, but isn't what you're describing a Rogue? Isn't your lack of Rogue-like utility what justifies your extra dps?... Now I prefer balancing a bit less damage for a bit more utility hence I chose a Rogue. Did you not chose to go a different way?</p><p>I'm not trying to berate you, just offering another perspective.</p><hr></blockquote>Ya got me ... Truth is i made my assassin first day of release so didnt know what i was getting in to. I thought he was going to be more eq 1 rogueishYou have to admit that evac although a good travel spell isn't used the way it was early on as a rescue wipeout spell. It was a reason to have an evacclass in group other than just dps.Nikodimus</span></div>

Mastera

02-15-2006, 04:55 AM

Through all this rage, thought I'd leave my impressions of Assassins in PvP after testing in beta.All in all...satisfied.Our dps falls short of rangers, we get taken out quicker than swashs/brigs and our arsenal of positional attacks are a pain to pull off....BUT given the right situation/position, we can kill pcs quicker than most. This makes it possible to take out a 2-4 person group if they keep moving without communication. Always fun to slaughter a grouped enemy, enter stealth, and watch the rest of their confused group try to find out what happened. Wait for them to head to the spawn point....only to leave another straggler behind for a couple seconds, *smack *pow *wham.....confused group returns <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>Some things that need tweaking:Stealth, still see the 20m viewable range to be too big. If you begin running from an enemy with less power (sprint power) then them, you'll ALWAYS be within their viewable range. In group situations, the 20m range makes you have to circle FAR around the enemy to achieve a "behind" position. Doing this will eliminate AoE buffs that your group has maintained, since you'll be well out of range. Not sure how many other classes have to remove themselves from group buff range to perform an essential class ability.Cheap Shot, only last 2 seconds in PvP. This makes a /stun /stealth /sneakattack very difficult. Possible yes, but very difficult, especially with the auto face option. Don't think I need to embellish much more on cheap shot. 2 second duration <- enough said.But...all in all...we are decent. Disappointing that we aren't up to par with the other tier 1 dps classes. But theres no use beating a dead horse....<div></div>

Tealdea

02-16-2006, 04:13 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Masterage wrote:Through all this rage, thought I'd leave my impressions of Assassins in PvP after testing in beta.All in all...satisfied.Our dps falls short of rangers, we get taken out quicker than swashs/brigs and our arsenal of positional attacks are a pain to pull off....BUT given the right situation/position, we can kill pcs quicker than most. This makes it possible to take out a 2-4 person group if they keep moving without communication. Always fun to slaughter a grouped enemy, enter stealth, and watch the rest of their confused group try to find out what happened. Wait for them to head to the spawn point....only to leave another straggler behind for a couple seconds, *smack *pow *wham.....confused group returns <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>Some things that need tweaking:Stealth, still see the 20m viewable range to be too big. If you begin running from an enemy with less power (sprint power) then them, you'll ALWAYS be within their viewable range. In group situations, the 20m range makes you have to circle FAR around the enemy to achieve a "behind" position. Doing this will eliminate AoE buffs that your group has maintained, since you'll be well out of range. Not sure how many other classes have to remove themselves from group buff range to perform an essential class ability.<font color="#ff0000">Cheap Shot, only last 2 seconds in PvP. This makes a /stun /stealth /sneakattack very difficult. Possible yes, but very difficult, especially with the auto face option. Don't think I need to embellish much more on cheap shot. 2 second duration <- enough said.</font>But...all in all...we are decent. Disappointing that we aren't up to par with the other tier 1 dps classes. But theres no use beating a dead horse....<div></div><hr></blockquote>We need our own line of stuns mwuhahahaha! Something no other scouts get that make us superior melee killing machines mwuhahahaha!</span><div></div>

kopingOwen

02-16-2006, 04:26 PM

Mastering cheapshot shows you who the true assassins are hehehe

Mastera

02-16-2006, 06:14 PM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tealdeath wrote:<span>We need our own line of stuns mwuhahahaha! Something no other scouts get that make us superior melee killing machines mwuhahahaha!</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Rrrrright...as I said....the only problem is the <b>duration</b>. Of course we don't need a whole stun line. I'm satisfied with just having cheap shot, but just wish it was a little more effective.I'm talking a small amount...like an extra second or two. Doesn't sound like much...but would make a world of difference.</span></div>

Sylnt

02-16-2006, 06:37 PM

<div>Good news. The developers have stated that Ranger DPS was out of control. This was mainly due to proc rate. They are currently beta testing these proc changes. You can read all about it in the developer forums. </div>

04-28-2006, 01:58 AM

Is there any news on this ? <div></div>

Hadanelith

04-28-2006, 03:04 AM

<P>This Board is highly out-of-date.</P> <P>Ranger DPS has already been "nerfed" by fixing the proc rates on CA's across all Classes.</P> <P>The problem was that the Proc Rate on CA's for ALL classes was determined by the used Weapon's Delay, similar to how it works with Auto Attack. This became a problem because Rangers primarily use 7s delay Longbows, so they were getting procs on roughly 70%+ of all Combat Arts triggered. When you take into account the number of procs they could have at once, this gave them massive proc-ability:</P> <P>- Offensive Stance proc</P> <P>- Bow Proc</P> <P>- Offhand & Mainhand procs</P> <P>- Poison Proc</P> <P>- Any "Granted Procs" by groupmembers.</P> <P>It was this massive number of Procs that also gave Rangers the aggro-control issues that they had. This has since been amended, I believe back in LU#21. There is a reason that this thread is titled the "Non-Current State of the Assassin," nobody'd bothered to post in almost 3 months.</P> <P>For the record, some are saying that Rangers were "over-nerfed," and this was somewhat agreed with by the Devs as some Ranger Melee CA's were improved in LU#22 or a subsequent mini-patch to amend that issue. Many Rangers still say they're not capable of doing the damage they SHOULD be capable off, but this is often due to one of several issues:</P> <P>- Lack of a Tier-Appropriate proccing bow (though there's no excuse in T7 as there are Crafted Bows, Grizzfazzle's Bow, and the Heartsting Recurve, all relatively easy to obtain)</P> <P>- Lack of Tier-Appropriate arrows (due to exhorbitant arrow cost. I have proposed a fix to this in the Ranger threads, link below)</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=30107" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=30107</A></P> <P>- Lack of Masters and/or Stat-Boosting Gear (as Rangers primarily drew their damage from procs prior to that update, some did not see it fit to upgrade certain aspects of their character)</P> <P>- Finally, inability / unwillingness to adjust to Patch Changes. We all suffer this at times, and I'm not saying that a majority or even fair share of Rangers suffer from this. But those people are out there, the one's that'd rather scream "Change it back!" than adjust to the changes.</P> <P> </P> <P>-Hadanelith Raswrolski, 70 Assassin of Kithicor</P> <P> </P> <P>*EDIT - Inserted link to Ranger forum. Subsequent edits to fix errors in text caused by link >_<</P><p>Message Edited by Hadanelith on <span class=date_text>04-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:07 PM</span>

Kokus

05-16-2006, 08:45 PM

Thank you for informing us that the 'non current' state of the assassin is out of date.

MystaSkrat

05-21-2006, 01:37 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hadanelith wrote:<BR> <P>This Board is highly out-of-date.</P> <P>nobody'd bothered to post in almost 3 months.</P> <P> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I honestly don't have very many problems with our class anymore. There's a few things... mostly getting knocked out of stealth by Apply Poison, Untreated Bleeding, or Agonizing Pain... or the lag that can make Concealment not work at all... other than that, I'm happy with where we're at, DPS wise. Rangers hate us<BR>

Tealdea

05-21-2006, 04:16 PM

I still want Concealment changed a bit... Instead of just a 7 second duration, just change it to work somewhat like the Mark line does now, place the Assassin into stealth on each attack for 7 attacks. The big changes to stuns is gonna hurt IMO... Point Blank Shot was my favorite skill at rank 8, it helped so much with killing ^ and anything higher. /: ; usea Concealment ; usea Point Blank Shot and your set for spaming stealth skills on those nasty mobs that would otherwise take you 50% health or lower before you've killed it (keep in mind these are mobs that are top level of blue con and white) I'm sure everyone has their list they've like to see fixed first, as do I... Perhaps will see a bit more of certain classes left out on the LU list of changes and improvements for classes... Maybe on will be the Assassin... someday, again... <div></div>

MystaSkrat

05-21-2006, 09:57 PM

I wish Concealment would just remove all the requirements for all of our CAs for 7 seconds or so instead. That would be 100 times better to me.

Dragonsviperz

05-21-2006, 10:07 PM

That would be the pwn, but I'm happy with Concealment as it is.

Hadanelith

05-23-2006, 03:26 PM

<P>If Teal's proposed change went in, it'd basically be doing what Mysta said =p Since we have what, 9 stealth attacks in our repertoire? 1 of which is down 9/10 times Concealment is up, and the other half the time?</P> <P>I have to say I like the idea, b/c having Concealment screwed up by tiny little AoE's that may or may not do damage REALLY ticks me off. "Soandso's Thornstorm hits you but your ward absorbs it... Soandso's Thornstorm hits you but your ward absorbs it... Soandso's Thornstorm hits you but your ward absorbs it... " (meanwhile) *click click click... mumble... stupid thing not working...*</P> <P>/sigh =/</P> <P>-Hadanelith Raswrolski, 70 Assassin of Kithicor</P>

alshell

12-03-2006, 08:32 AM

<P>OK Guys....15 pages of posts on the demerits and short-comings of the current state of the Assassin Class, and not a single reply by a Dev.......doesn`t this say something? They don`t give a monkeys what you or I think, or feel, or what our frustrations are. This is my first, and probably my last, post on this forum. EQ2 is not the place to play any form of `assassin`, the actual class doesn`t exist!</P> <P>That sounds harsh, and yes, I`m a level 70 Assassin and used to really enjoy playing the character, it was fun and we could do things that others couldn`t. </P> <P>Sneeking past 3-up Red-con heroic or epic mobs to see what else was around so that raid leaders and groups knew what they were facing and giving back reports of what was in the next area was fun. So was the abilities to take a mob down in seconds, that has all gone..a long time ago now.</P> <P>Dictionary Definition of Assassin is someone who murders through either stealth or surprise for political or monetary gain...where are our capabilities of doing this? (unless we`re taking on green/grey mobs that is).</P> <P>Since the EoF expansion, the situation of the Assassin has become far worse. Using exactly the same equipment and weapons that i had pre-EoF, my dps settles around the 600-650 mark, whereas, before, I was hitting 900-1k. That is an astounding 33% reduction in my damage capability, what other class has had such a huge reduction?</P> <P>Also, STILL the Devs have not fixed the issue between the pally`s Amends and our Murderous Design, we still can`t have both up when in the same group or they cancell each other out and neither takes effect. This has been going on for over 12 months now, it begs the question of what the Devs are actually doing?....sometimes I think they are playing WoW on the side and seeing what rubbish they can give us next that is a rip-off from there.</P> <P>Unfortunately, I think that I`m going to shelve my assassin and play my coercer instead, or start a Swashie....coz we are so broken and useless now, that we are no longer a required team-member....just a space-filler.</P> <P>All the past 15 pages of posts have said the same thing time after time after time...and yet not 1 Dev has had the decency or honesty to reply and put forward their views of what they perceive the Assassins role to be, this is just pure ignorance/lack of customer care/ or just an attitude of `Who gives a toss what you guys think...we`re still getting your money, so what?`</P> <P>SOE should learn that employing people to deal with customer issues means that they should do just that, not neglect their job and sit back taking a fat pay packet for doing nothing, as they seem to be doing with the Assassin players, who, after all, contribute at least some of the money that goes into those pay packets.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Computer MAn

12-03-2006, 09:47 AM

I honestly don't know what you are talking about. Assassin's are one of the best classes in the game right now and really don't have any major issues that I have seen. Are there a few bugs? Of course but we are still top 3 arguably the #1 DPS in the game.<div></div>

alshell

12-03-2006, 11:32 AM

<P>Obviously you are one of the `uber` equipped assassins in game ( only 6 items that aren`t Fabled), and well done and good luck to you, but for us mere mortals who haven`t got every single art at Master, don`t have all the fabled gear, and are just trying to have fun with a class that used to be playable and enjoyable, then all the previous 15 pages holds true....you think 15 pages of dissatisfaction is just an illusion?....boy....get your head somewhere out of the clouds and into the real world.</P> <P>If 1 class of player is reduced in the amount of damage they can do by 1/3...then something is seriously amiss, and Im sure that everyone who has posted on this subject suddenly hasn`t, overnight, become totally useless in playing the class, that just doesn`t happen.</P><p>Message Edited by alshell on <span class=date_text>12-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:36 PM</span>

Computer MAn

12-03-2006, 12:49 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>alshell wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Obviously you are one of the `uber` equipped assassins in game ( only 6 items that aren`t Fabled), and well done and good luck to you, but for us mere mortals who haven`t got every single art at Master, don`t have all the fabled gear, and are just trying to have fun with a class that used to be playable and enjoyable, then all the previous 15 pages holds true....you think 15 pages of dissatisfaction is just an illusion?....boy....get your head somewhere out of the clouds and into the real world.</p><hr></blockquote>Well first off who are you comparing your damage to a similarly geared player or a twink. Many players who you will find leveling up are twinks and hence will be out DPSing you by a fair amount. Under equal circumstances an Assassin will win most of the time.</div>

Skratttt

12-03-2006, 11:55 PM

<DIV>NECRO REVIVAL FTL!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let this die PLZ</DIV>

Masu

12-04-2006, 05:31 AM

<P>Are you people serious?</P> <P>Assassins rock, I really have no idea how you can suck so bad to complain like this...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Hadanelith

12-04-2006, 06:59 AM

<P>Alshell-</P> <P>I'm going to point a couple things out here before I get rolling...</P> <OL> <LI>I am a top-end assassin, with one of the very few legit 30k+ hits globally. (Legit = not abusing the Duel Bugs of early DOF)</LI> <LI>I wear full-Fabled thanks to raiding</LI> <LI>I have all but 2 Attack CA's Mastered (only other Master I'm missing is our Hate Transfer)</LI> <LI>I have NOT yet messed around with getting good, T7 Adornments</LI></OL> <P>With those things said, I must say, though we have ALL seen some cuts on our DPS since EoF went live (universal nerfs), I and other Assassins still easily top parses in both Raids and Groups. With the EoF changes, I have actually GAINED in ability to destroy Heroic mobs and solo-cons (with the exception of those god-awful Solo Cons in Mistmoore Castle, but I even handle them fairly well), and indeed have soloed several Catacombs Nameds on my Assassin. </P> <P>You claim to have seen a 33% decrease in your DPS, but as a Raiding Assassin I can say that this number is inflated on your part. Where I used to regularly parse 1300 - 1500, I now more frequently parse 1100 - 1300, a 200 DPS loss across the board. Taking the medians of these ranges (1400 and 1200) that's about a 14% loss... let's say 15% just to be generous. HOWEVER, I have not Adorned my Weapons with T7 Proc Adornments, nor have I invested in one of the Shoulder Adornments that procs extra damage with every single hit. Once you factor these in, ESPECIALLY with our Critical Spell (read: Critical Proc) AA, that gains back the DPS we lost easily. So yes, if you have not yet done these things, you will see a larger loss than we have actually suffered. Now you just need a couple more one-time investments to get to your potential.</P> <P>If you expect to be killing Raid mobs in a matter of a few seconds, or continue to believe that you can sneak past Epics, here's a wakeup call: We've not been able to sneak past Epics since DoF launched. That's gone. Poof. Forget about it. Does it kinda suck for ALL scouts? Yes, but it also makes sense - monsters that powerful should be able to tell when people are in their domain, especially when they're toting a small hoard of magically enchanted armaments.</P> <P>Get used to the Amend / Murderous Design thing. That is "bugged" (read: DOES NOT FUNCTION) in that manner for the same reason Tank Avoidance buffs don't work that way, and for the same reason two Crusaders can't both put Gift of Armament on the same person. It's not a bug at all, it's a built-in mechanic that helps to keep the game in relative balance. If a Paladin has Amends on you, they shouldn't need to have your MD on them anyway, unless it's a really awful Paladin.</P> <P>For ALL of you, not just Alshell, who cite the "past 15 pages".... keep in mind that this is a very, VERY long-running Thread which dates back at least as far as GU#15, if not prior. We're in the 30's now, there's a lot of old gripes on here that no longer apply. Frankly we don't need people who not only can't adjust to changes in the Class and make complaints where they're truly warranted, but also cannot ~read~ and ~think~ well enough to realize what is and is not relatively current giving the rest of us playing the class a bad name.</P> <P>I'm sorry to hear that you can no longer enjoy your Assassin, but I assure you that if you take the time to adjust to the recent changes, you'll find that we've actually GAINED in functionality, not lost. Avoidance actually works something close to properly now, so that even with lower Avoidance that our Persona -showed- before we dodge BETTER than pre-EoF, we have more procs available for use with our AA line due to Adornments (and, potentially, yet-undiscovered equipment), and we got some pretty decent EoF AA's that assist in regaining what little ground we lost in terms of DPS as well as giving us additional aggro-control and improved soloability. If all you do to determine the usefulness of your class is look at a parse immediately following a major combat change and reminisce on abilities of ten GU's past, then you're not going to enjoy ANY class you play.</P> <P> </P> <P>-Hadanelith Raswrolski of Kithicor</P>

Tealdea

12-04-2006, 10:18 AM

<div></div><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/BelieveItsButter/outdated.jpg">You're just a tad bit late.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Tealdeath on <span class=date_text>12-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:19 PM</span>

steelbadger

12-07-2006, 05:44 AM

Hehehee, some people still complaining?I've had my assassin for almost a year now. I am happy. I can remember days of frustration finding ways to kill solo mobs in Commonlands, I can remember those times when I couldn't get aggro even if I tried really hard.Now? I'm level 70, I've got 2 (omg yes, only 2) masters. I am still primarily in Xegonite armour.Yet I am happier now than I was then, far happier.I, with apprentice IV's, can equal the DPS of an almost fully mastered conjuror. I do what I was intended to do... Now I can die happy in the knowledge that it was my dps that got me aggro, not a noob tank <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

Criesi

12-14-2006, 08:29 PM

<P>Well I started my Assassin after FoE, so missed out on all the nerfs etc. I have levelled a zerker, dirge, necro and others to mid 30s but havent as had much fun with any of them as I do with my Assassin. The class rocks, yes I know there are still some issues with the class and do think we sacrifice too much sometimes compared to other classes and gain very little from it. Some people are gonna have a go coz I am only lvl 31 and dont know what I am talking about.</P> <P>I mean how many other classes have to be in stealth or behind in order to get skills off - not many and our stun doesnt work on ^^^ (may work in higher levels) to get behind them to use a stealthed or back attack. I think some classes (not naming any) have gained a lot in the resent FoE in that they can DPS really well, still keep utility or be able to DPS from a distant without the need of skill.</P> <P>We have to get up close and personal which is what an assassin does - but does that mean we shouldnt be detected - no. If an assasin was attacking a monk/bruiser their years of training their senses would tell them you were there, even if they couldnt see you - that is what they do. Same reason a scout NPC can see you because they are trained to detect in the same way you were as a scout.</P> <P>I think we should be the only scout class that can use certain poisons, or at least our poisons hit for me - an Assassin speciality. I mean a Ranger uses a bow from anything from upto 20+ meters, and has massive DPS, but if it was windy or wet then there should be a chance that it misses, or hits for less. Yet we are usually less than a meter away in stealth and can make a pinpoint attack where we want and we DPS about the same - should that be so, probably not.</P> <P> </P>

Jvaloth

12-15-2006, 12:43 AM

<DIV>Something tells me this thread is going to get dusted off and put into use again if we don't get some DPS lovin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Armill

12-16-2006, 11:23 PM

*starts dusting off the thread* Well....we need some dps loving.

LoreLady

12-17-2006, 09:17 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Armill wrote:<div></div>*starts dusting off the thread* Well....we need some dps loving.<hr></blockquote>Assassin dps is fine - its still very easy for an assassin to average 1.8k zonewide with only EoF AA's - it should be easier to average 2k zonewide with adornments and 100 aa's for an assassin - I dont see any problem.</div>

Tealdea

12-17-2006, 11:33 PM

I'm sad about Getaway getting it's nerf, that's the only thing I'd like to see remain with the Assn class <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I think it's fine the way it is, unbreakable 30 sec stealth able to attack from it with AoE immunity with a 1.5 min recast.You can't really say it's overpowered for PvE or PVP for any reason. #1 PvP, no one runs arround without butterfly and owltotems, I can say this for myself, I have a few decent pvp toons mid to high lvl. PvE same thing, who cares if you lost to anassn in /duel because you didn't have see stealth? Ah yes, it's over powered because brig's got amazing reflexes nerf'd... Big deal, atleast your attack don't say "You must be sneakingto use this ability" or "You must be in stealth" when you get hit by the smallest harmless aoe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Heh, I had really thought for justa second SoE had did us a great favor to keep us in a fight with a huge aoe for 1/3 - 1/4 of that AoE being cast. It really does helpmuch much more than what it's going to after it's nerf =As a level 70 near-end game (not fully fabled, <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) who parse 1.5k-2k+ regulary on my raids, this is the only thing in a long long timethat's going to make me sad <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

Armill

12-18-2006, 01:30 AM

<DIV>Lore...your a dope, when we can get out dpsed by conjurors and necros, sometimes swashies, there is a problem. We do need dps loving...</DIV>

nevkien

12-21-2006, 01:31 AM

<P>Hi, I have no issues with the EoF expansion. As a matter of fact, my dps has gone up. I used to hang around the 700 dps area, now I do around 1100-1200 and might hit 1400 with decap. I have all my dot and stealth masters ans some other ones and all the rest are adept 3. I have Some of the best KoS gear, around 70 aa (str, agi and the new dor line) and a few adornments (t7 str wrist, shoulder and poison dot) I use all 3 types of poison and ensure that they are dps or debuff. My stats are approx, 570 str, 600 agi, 450 sta, 250 int and 100 wis and I have a 23% haste item. Basically my Assassin is set up for major dps. The only problem is... I am sick to death of seeing Rogues top me in the parse. As a matter of fact, they seem to be doin anywhere from 1600-1800 dps which is around 500 more than me in raids. Even when I am placed in a decent group, I am still out dpsed by at least 200. I now realize that it is probably the order and combination of my abilities. I pretty much just start off with all my dots and debuffs, then I start laying in with my stealth attacks, refreshing my dots every time they pop back up. If ALL of my attack abilities are down this is the chance I take to use de-aggro skills. Maybe I am using bad strat, I dunno. Is there anyone that can help me spacifically. I know that Brigs and Swashys are good, but I refuse to believe that they are better at dps than assassins, especially THAT much better. Thanks to any help out there. Specifics would be very appreciated.</P> <P> </P> <P>PS- The Rogues that out dps basically have the same gear than me if not worse and they have basically the same number of Master skills as well.</P>

evilpants

12-21-2006, 04:39 AM

<DIV>" My stats are approx, 570 str, 600 agi, 450 sta, 250 int and 100 wis and I have a 23% haste item. Basically my Assassin is set up for major dps."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3>Are these numbers self buffed, group buffed or Raid buffed? If thats self buffed what gear are you wearing because I want it.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>

Recca[BK]

12-21-2006, 05:23 AM

wait wait wait you have some of the best gear from kos and you hun garound 700 dps???i get near 1k just autoattacking. the problem isnt the rgiues its your dps.now i do think we need a dps increase from the eof AAs casue they are all nearly useless, while a few other dps classes got a good dps boost. ither than the lack of a dps increaser from the eof AA we are in a great dps spot.<p>Message Edited by Recca[BK] on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:26 PM</span>

nevkien

12-21-2006, 05:46 AM

<DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3>{Are these numbers self buffed, group buffed or Raid buffed? If thats self buffed what gear are you wearing because I want it.}</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3>Self buffed. Again, I have several adornments and my cloak pet adds 28 str, and I have full nemesis/Nightfall armor, I have all the top end KoS jewelry such as Echolic band, Relk ring, DT access bracelet, MOA, Draketooth earring... I wield Dirk of Negativity and switch between Wurmslayer and Absolution in main slot.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3>Anyways, Whomever said they do 1k dmg on auto attack alone, either your parser is jacked or you aren't tellin the truth. There is no way in hell that you can do over 1k dps on just auto attack, I don't care how bad [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] your char is equipped. I just tried it and got just over 400 dps on auto attack. I challange anyone else to try it.</FONT></STRONG></DIV></DIV>

Zheni

12-21-2006, 07:15 AM

<div></div>just sell your absolution, its crappy weapon. And most important thing is only to cast concealment+stealth nukes (im casting 5-6 ca's under effect) when brigands call dispach.well, my stats are some 615str, 601agi, 324sta, 193int 106 wis and GDoH+Rapier of Darkness.. on our last run in FTH i did constantly 2.5k extdps on trash (raid wide dps was low tho) after raid got called we were blowing doors for quest and just for fun changed to naked+ 2 tin daggers <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"> ...i did 1000extdps on 2min fight on trash wolves <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"><div></div>

nevkien

12-22-2006, 06:39 AM

<DIV>[just sell your absolution, its crappy weapon.] and [well, my stats are some 615str, 601agi, 324sta, 193int 106 wis and GDoH+Rapier of Darkness]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok stats are as follows:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Absolution:</DIV> <DIV>25 str 12 sta 25 agi 14 int</DIV> <DIV>80 Health 60 Pow</DIV> <DIV>58.9 dmg rating</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grinning Dirk of Horror</DIV> <DIV>25 str 15 agi 15 int</DIV> <DIV>110 health 55 Pow</DIV> <DIV>+3 pierce</DIV> <DIV>56.8 dmg rating</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't see how the Absolution sucks compared to GDoH. Yeah GDoH has +3 piercing, but does that +3 to piercing actually overpower 2.1 more damage rating that much or even at all? I don't know which is better, but I can say that they seem to be pretty equal weapons.</DIV>

Zheni

12-22-2006, 07:47 AM

All you should look from weapon is damage range and weapon delay. That determines how much dmg the weapon does and dont bother to trust soe's dmg rating's. They didnt even tell us correct, what Perfectionist does.<div></div>

Tealdea

12-22-2006, 06:43 PM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Zhenics wrote:All you should look from weapon is damage range and weapon delay. That determines how much dmg the weapon does and dont bother to trust soe's dmg rating's. They didnt even tell us correct, what Perfectionist does.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Zhenics is absolutely correct here. I'm sick and tired of people overrating Damage Rating rofl. It doesn't mean anything. Take the min dmg, add it to the max dmg, then divide that by the weapon's delay and you got your dmg rating that omg, tells you how good the weapon is or if another is better. You might as well wave a magic wand and you'd get the same results.As for Nevkien, dude I can tell you near 1k auto attack dmg is completely possible (he did say near, and that really doesn't apply for a 3+ min raid), I do it myself. I'm my guild's top DPS, quite possibly the highest Assn dps on my server, Befallen, we know drama. That's not my own words btw, that's just what ppl tell me when they compare me to their assassin. Your case Nevkien having the dps you do after what you've stated to have in gear (unsure if your armor is fabled or not, I don't recall you mentioning) just mean's your not playing the class to the full potential.Trust me, that's not intended as a personal attack or a small attempt at pointing a finger and saying "noob, own'd!". It's just something I've already experienced. The assn's in my guild are nearly equally matched to me in gear and claimed they're mastered but I still out parse them and the other raid member's from anywhere arround500 to a big 1k (this is dependant on the encounter of course, and I do use our short duration buffs and use certain weapons according to the fight length. Lets just say the GDoH isn't my only piercer.) I'm always on top of our parses where as the other assn's can be 3, 4 positions below or not even on there. It just depends if you knowwhat to do, when to do it, and what to do first and follow up with. Also, we don't get to watch tv while casting our CA's like those wuss' over on the wiz/war forums <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (/point finger and say "NOOB! OWN'D!)The assn's class requires you to know it up and down, upside down, backwards, left, even inside out... We gotta work for our dps. Anyone disagree? Then you're just like me, you've played so long you forgot about the work and it's become a game to you finally.</div><p>Message Edited by Tealdeath on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:50 AM</span>

Salat

12-23-2006, 03:56 AM

<DIV>Nevkien the reason GDoH is the best weapon on most fights is because of its high end max damage and its long delay. The 4 second delay usually makes most people think its a crappy weapon for duel weilders the firs time they see it. Buit the longer delay, is what makes that weapon shine. It has the best crit rate in game for duel weilds. Most time its criting for around 1,200 to 1,300 solo. Granted, I have a few dps adornments on also. Absolution, to be quite honest, is probally one of the worst criting weapons for our class. Once they changed the proc rate, back around DoF timeframe, the old theory of the fastest wepaon in primary hand was no longer true. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The combination I prefer, is GDoH in primary hand, and Dirk of Negativity in offhand. If, our raid force is short on healers, I will switch out to Qeynos Claymore in primary, and GDoH in off hand for names, to try and get a few AoE immunities and also effect the Names CA damage by 10% for a few seconds. But that is just me, sometimes going all out dps isnt the best thing, and you have to look at the raid build and see if you can help it other ways, while still doing great DPS. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, another reason GDoH is great for raids, is the haste mod making that 4 second delay into a 2 second delay or less. I forget the bare minimum delay you can have off the top of my head. But those fast delay weapons reach it quickly, and the rest of the haste isnt doing much for you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I look at weapons now, the only two factors I look at are simply, the max damage and the delay. </DIV>

Graton

12-23-2006, 05:28 AM

<div>the gdoh is the best assassin weapon in the game but not for the reasons listed here. i'm not sure why the many myths around it continue but anyway. here's what isn't true and here is why it is the king of dw'ers for us still.<blockquote><hr>Salat wrote:<div>Nevkien the reason GDoH is the best weapon on most fights is because of its high end max damage and its long delay. The 4 second delay usually makes most people think its a crappy weapon for duel weilders the firs time they see it. Buit the longer delay, is what makes that weapon shine. It has the best crit rate in game for duel weilds. </div><hr></blockquote>Crit rate is determined by gear with crit bonus, class, aa's, buffs and potions. it has nothing to do with the delay on a weapon.<blockquote><hr>Salat wrote:<div> </div> <div>The combination I prefer, is GDoH in primary hand, and Dirk of Negativity in offhand. If, our raid force is short on healers, I will switch out to Qeynos Claymore in primary, and GDoH in off hand for names, to try and get a few AoE immunities and also effect the Names CA damage by 10% for a few seconds. </div><hr></blockquote>you can proc the cutlass from your offhand. your offhand will not proc poison but it will proc innate effects that are on weapons.<blockquote><hr>Salat wrote:<div>Absolution, to be quite honest, is probably one of the worst criting weapons for our class. </div><hr></blockquote>no, it's average like the vast majority of weapons in that it has a 3 to 1 ratio max to minimum. there are a couple weapons like the vampiric axe , the dirk of negativity, the dirk from the clockwork menace & of course the gdoh which have much larger ratios but they are the exceptions not the rule.<blockquote><hr>Salat wrote:<div>Now, another reason GDoH is great for raids, is the haste mod making that 4 second delay into a 2 second delay or less. I forget the bare minimum delay you can have off the top of my head. But those fast delay weapons reach it quickly, and the rest of the haste isnt doing much for you.</div><hr></blockquote>No. there is no minimum delay. A 1.2 delay weapon hasted 100% will swing every .6 seconds.<blockquote><hr>Salat wrote:<div> </div> <div>When I look at weapons now, the only two factors I look at are simply, the max damage and the delay. </div><hr></blockquote>Nope, that's not it either. Wurmslayer for example has a high maximum dmg but a high minimum dmg as well. it's ratio is 3 to 1 so it's no better or worse from a crit hit perspective than absolution._______________________________________ ___Now as to why the GDoH is so good and whether dmg rating matters...The GDoH is a great weapon only if you have a high critical rate. As it turns out, if you spec your aa's properly , are grouped with a bard and acquire crit rate bonus gear along with potions, as an assassin you can reach very high crit rates in the 30 to 35% range. Before crits were in the game dmg rating was a fairly accurate way to compare weapons. However once crits came about this all changed quite drastically.The reason for this is the mechanic used to determine crit dmg. Critical dmg is sort of a 30 % increase to each hit but it has one added factor. That is that a critical hit must be at least the max dmg of the weapon + 1. Because of this, weapons which have a large ratio of max hit to minimum hit are more likely to strike criticals that would be below the max dmg if they were only scaled up 30%. Therefore they are scaled up more than 30% being the higher the ratio of max to min the more bonus dmg you get from criticals.In addition the higher the actual crit rate, the bigger this advantage is. There is a thread in the combat section authored by rokjin which explains all the math behind this. i've probably not explained it 1/10 as well as he did if you are really interested. i believe the post is stickied.The second really nice feature of GDoH is the long delay. While there is no maximum haste and equal haste helps all weapons equally, this does not take into account combat arts. As assassins we spam combat arts quite alot, swinging our auto attack weapons during refresh time. Longer delay weapons over time, lose fewer opportunities to swing because of this. This might not make much difference in a 30 second fight. However during a multi minute fight and across an entire raid this can add up to a lot for example. If you have a weapon swinging every 1/2 second vs every 2 seconds, what happens when you cast cloaked assautl which takes 1.5 secs to cast? the .5 delay weapon will have lost possibly as many as 3 opportunities to swing where the one swinging every 2 secs might not have lost a single one.longer delay weapons used to afford a significant boost in poison proc %age but with the recent changes with EoF i haven't really seen enough data to say whether this still holds up or not but it used to help a great deal.there are now adornments in the game which add a fixed amount of dmg per swing to weapons. these would tend to favor fast swiging weapons and it may turn out that there is now a new sweet spot where longer delay is not always good but i suspect that it's advntages in long swings are going to outweigh the potential loss of dmg from not being able to use one of these adornments.</div>

Salat

12-26-2006, 10:18 PM

<P>Yea, sorry about that. Grafton corrected me on my entire post. Was believeing alot of old myths there. </P> <P>The weapon delay/haste cap. I found a dev posting that there is no hard cap on weapon delay. </P> <P>"Delay = Weapon Delay / (1 + Haste%) So with 100% Haste, it would be 1.2 / (1+1) = 0.6. The same weapon with 50% haste would be 1.2 / (1 + 0.5) = 0.8"</P> <P> </P> <P>One question Grafton,</P> <P> With CA timer delay on weapons, dont I still get the most benefit from having Cutlass in Primary hand when I use it? Yea, I know it can still go off in off hand, but I thought that with CA timers at a certain length, you actually interupt your auto atack and it restart with Primary Hand?</P>

Tealdea

01-03-2007, 12:32 AM

There's very very few thing's alot of good Assn player's would want fix'd about our class.I consider myself being top 3 on befallen. Please, rofl, I just want you to start with Slip Away, nice and easy change... No reason for it to remain an out-of-combat only stealth.Can we get a nice "Assassin changes : Slip Away no longer carries the out-of-combat only restriction and had it's recast reduced from 15 seconds to 10." on the nextLU update notes please? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

HazNpho

01-03-2007, 02:48 AM

Not to rag or anything, but do we really need to waste a CA on slip away? with Masked Attack, Surviellance/Imp Surviel, Concealment and starting the fight in invis... you should be running out of CA's before you run out of ways to get you into stealth. Unless I'm missing something... right now we have what... 3 main attacks (less then 3 min recast) 2 AE's and Decap/Assassinate. With all that up I can normally get away with firing one of those off at the start, cast Conceal and normally make it through each and every CA, and if not use masked attack or surviellance/Imp Surviel and still have that god awfull stealth that takes 5 seconds to cast. I'd settle for a new stealth attack over the restriction removal and ruese timer down.<div></div>

Tealdea

01-03-2007, 03:59 AM

Take everything into consideration... All the end game raid zones are pack filled of AoE's with dot's. Some debuff/attack the encounter on the pull, some have dmg sheilds. Sure we have many stealth options, but mob's have an equal ammount if not more to knock us out of it, including our flanking stealth attack missing/being blocked... Doesn't stealth afterwards<div></div>

HazNpho

01-03-2007, 04:30 AM

True, but I could see more usefull then removing the restriction, knowing the devs they'll give that as an end ability just to be more spitefull with us... Oops, should be carefull, they may delete this thread if we bad talk how they are doing their job too much.<div></div>

TwistedFaith

01-03-2007, 04:48 AM

<blockquote><hr>Armill wrote:<DIV>Lore...your a dope, when we can get out dpsed by conjurors and necros, sometimes swashies, there is a problem. We do need dps loving...</DIV><hr></blockquote>SoE aint going to boost Assasin dps to compete with the current flavor of the month classes.Necros/Conj has been overpowered for a LONG time, with the shear amount of utlity they have at their disposal its insane that they are top dps. Have you seen lifeburn in action?Rangers FINALLY got a dps boost with their EOF AA's, so can now compete if they have a decent bow and ammo.I think its a bit rich for any Assasin to ask for a DPS boost honestly, they are still t1 dps, difference now is that they have been joined by rangers with the fabled bow/t8 ammo combo and of course conj/necros and swashys.

Armill

01-03-2007, 05:25 AM

<DIV>Than the streets shall run with blood...the blood of assassins and swashies and necroes and conjies and hell lets just throw every other class in there too as we all kill each other off to vie for power...but HOOO whats that an assassin and necro escaped the city because there love knows no bounds...they mate and the hybrid class Assnecroes is formed....and you don't even want to know how they get their magical abilites.</DIV>

blurryfast

01-07-2007, 08:01 PM

<DIV>why do people insist on arguing about GDoH all the time? Why would the 'raiding' assassin all have or want it if something like absolution (a frickin bard weapon) was better?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sorry, had to get that off my chest</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now as far as our current state, sure it's all been said but keep up the fight, soe can't ignore us forever</DIV> <DIV>our swashy (mastered and using chel'drak shard is busting 2k on any and everything) and our ranger is beating him a lot of the time</DIV> <DIV>the sorcerors are doing well but not normally beating the scouts (every now and then)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>double attack? useful AA line? shorter recast on the big hits?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>give us something, we've put up with being nerfed in nearly every LU</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and 6 months down the road is just too long, I will be playing warhammer if I have to wait that long</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit here: how about 10% attack speed adornments instead of 2? </DIV><p>Message Edited by blurryfast on <span class=date_text>01-07-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:03 AM</span>

Jvaloth

01-07-2007, 10:46 PM

<P>10% attack speed adornment will help Swashys just as much as it helps Assassins thus making it even easier for them to reach the 200% haste cap.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

HazNpho

01-09-2007, 11:04 PM

<div></div>He has a point, its not the gear that needs to change, its the assassin skills, or if you must do gear, Assassin only gear. And I refuse to be told that I have to raid to be able to beat a swashie that plays maybe 3 times a week and has never done a raid. Yes I do raid, but I'm nowhere near the top, and can't even consider the zones like labs with the group that I have now.**Edit**Question:I have to say this, why does sony keep this as a sticky if they don't pay attention to us?Answer:Cause they haven't paid attention enough to even notice its still stickied.<div></div><p>Message Edited by HazNpho on <span class=date_text>01-09-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:08 AM</span>

Xebed

01-19-2007, 03:59 PM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Think about this deeply for a moment... are you <i>really</i> sure you want to bring Assassin performance to a dev's attention so that they can analyze the <i>actual </i>server-wide Assassin DPS performance and make decisions based on analysis of where Assassin <i>actually</i> place on server-wide DPS parses?<span><span></span></span><p>Message Edited by Lockeye on <span class="date_text">01-18-2007</span><span class="time_text">09:49 PM</span></p><div>=============================================Jared SweattEverQuest II Spells, Achievements, and Gameplay Designer</div><hr></blockquote><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=achievements&message.id=7063#M7063" target=_blank><span>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=achievements&message.id=7063#M7063</span></a>Make of this what you will.</div>

01-19-2007, 05:32 PM

nearly fully mastered wielding absolution and adamantine dragon fang, semi fabled; and I struggle to beat our guild swashbuckler in the offtank group; who has never raided before.. I dunno but that seems slightly imbalanced. My new guild is very new to raiding, and the tanks often screw up placement, I complain about my loss of dps - hitting at around 1k-1400, up to 1.7 with decap - we dont really have decent groups set up. If im lucky I get a dirge, in my group, generally an illu; the saving grace is agitate from the fury; still nothing majorly impressive tho; as I hit the haste cap on my weapons nearly straight away (both 1.2delay iirc, hitting 0.9 is too easy)i'd love a gdoh, but my guild struggled on the first named in lyceum, so i'm not holding my breath :]<div></div>

DresdenMalicaster

01-20-2007, 01:46 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HazNpho wrote:<BR> He has a point, its not the gear that needs to change, its the assassin skills, or if you must do gear, Assassin only gear. And I refuse to be told that I have to raid to be able to beat a swashie that plays maybe 3 times a week and has never done a raid. Yes I do raid, but I'm nowhere near the top, and can't even consider the zones like labs with the group that I have now.<BR><BR>**Edit**<BR>Question:<BR>I have to say this, why does sony keep this as a sticky if they don't pay attention to us?<BR>Answer:<BR>Cause they haven't paid attention enough to even notice its still stickied.<BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by HazNpho on <SPAN class=date_text>01-09-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:08 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Reconsider your class, the only class that should be beating assassins at all are necros with lifeburn.</P> <P>You use nothing but half-arsed opinions to support your view of assassins and I for one am sick of it.</P> <P>Assassins are where they should be, perhaps you aren't.</P>

LoreLady

01-20-2007, 03:34 AM

<div></div>Deathtoll zonewide13115.19 58:09 Assassin1746.32Wizard 1449.27Ranger 1308.59Assassin 1303.07Wizard 1131.62Necro 1250.50Brigand 1218.46Brigand 1181.50Necro 1103.60Illousionist 950.85Only a partial zonewide of freethinkers - he dident get past the second named.. - 24 mins of combat though (note it was our first round at freethinkers)And I cant count how many times I took agro and died here <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - actually had double attack on for once <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />15897.10 24:29Wizard 1916.17Assassin 1698.85Ranger 1463.91Assassin 1376.26Wizard 1400.06Ranger 1446.67Conj 1319.37Wizard 1213.95Brigand 1080.35Wizard 982.72Necro 1082.76Illousionist 972.42Monk 784.86Labs parse13473.12 51:22Wizard 1762.88Wizard 1258.15Ranger 1276.03Assassin 1256.33Brigand 1143.83Assassin 1097.28Wizard 1172.52Brigand 1085.90Necro 1048.98(forget what this guy is) 868.16Necro 1033.44Halls of Seeing.12866.6001:15:45Wizard 1489.68Ranger 1432.13Assassin 1311.53Ranger 1203.03Swash 1185.31Necro 1253.91Wizard 997.24Brigand 943.77(again forget who this is <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) 1096.54Lyceum13067.59 33:45Wizard 1862.92Assassin 1537.15Ranger 1387.12Wizard1349.59Necro 1233.73Wizard 1213.03Assassin 1169.26Conj 1050.22Zerker 732.98Note, I have it orginized to total damage not dps so the numbers may jump around abit.. Anyone who wish's to see the logs of any of these fights just ask and I will be happy to send them - just dont ask for a weeks worth <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Also note #2 - our guildleader is a swashy, and usually ends up playing a healer due to the lack of plate healers in our guild..Conclusion of parsings - dps is dependant on zones and assassins are still t1 dps.<p>Message Edited by LoreLady on <span class=date_text>01-20-2007</span> <span class=time_text>06:04 AM</span>

t0gar

01-20-2007, 02:25 PM

Necro's the only class that beat Assassins? Might I suggest your guild recruits some warlocks and wiz's who dont sleep all raid... well anyways, anyone who thinks assassins aren't T1 DPS, you're an idiot. The biggest problem is that the T1/T2 distinction isn't really there anymore. I usually try to stay out of personal attacks, but seriously HazNpho you spend way too much time whining on these forums. We get it, our AA's suck and most if not all the T2 classes are overpowered. But lets face it, you're not helping any you're just making us look like a bunch of whining noobs. I'm pretty sure most, if not all, the assassins on this board would prefer it if you quit posting. You bring nothing to any conversation except your opinion, which quite frankly doesn't mean anything to most of us.I rather enjoy my solo AA's, but I'm a raider and would drop them instantly for better raid/dps ones. I tried bleeding line and after changing it I haven't really noticed any difference in my DPS(it's actually gone up since i quit using 5/5 hemo). It's sad that a pure raider would even consider going for solo AA's, but when you get the shaft... they really shove it up there.<div></div>

Jvaloth

01-20-2007, 11:31 PM

<DIV>Lorelady, I'm assuming those are straight DPS zone wide and not ext DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Correct?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

LoreLady

01-21-2007, 07:58 PM

<div></div>Correct.. I also filtered out any mobs under 10s in duration - as well as all whipes etc..<p>Message Edited by LoreLady on <span class=date_text>01-21-2007</span> <span class=time_text>06:58 AM</span>

Dorchadas

01-22-2007, 07:55 AM

<P>I agree with DresdenMalicaster. I make no claims to greatness here but a blue jumped me today got me down to 3/4 health he was either a swashy or ranger but he was circiling me and all ((im kinda new so it took me a sec to figure out his tactic and he once I started moving right and was able to get my ca's off well the positional ones and all and I still killed him easy. point is nothing wrong with my assassin broters here just got a tad bit more difficult is all and come on everyne would like a nice DPS boost just cross your finger and ask he Devs nicely. last it being hard as half the fun right? beside wh wants tohide back and do nothing but sit there pressingfour buttons why you eat dinner? thank god were harder to play mages are so boring....</P> <P> </P>

02-03-2007, 07:01 AM

<DIV>i play a few classes, incl a wiz - and I have to say my assa really has to work for his dps, whereas my wiz doesnt need to nearly so much - raidin and grouping are different for sure; but by and large; my assa's dps drops in groups due to short fights, and in groups it is much harder to stay at the top of the parse with a decent group;</DIV> <DIV>It seems that our dps is being balanced to suit the parse in raids; where hitting positionals is far easier as the pulls almost always favour them (pulling and turning the mob, back ot the wall etc)</DIV> <DIV>Saying that - assassins soloing and grouping realy MUST work for their dps, and I guess this is where the AAs are meant to help. The thing is of course is that our dps seems to largely be balanced on raid parsing. My problem here is that assassins really dont bring anything to a raid except their dps, and possibly hate transfer - but given that concealment actually lowers the hate our damage gives (and our big hitters are generally done while in concealment or just after a surveil) we're a poor choice for hate transfer compared to a swashy who can turn their deagro proc off - i'm not even sure that the proc effects any hate transfer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Given that we're balanced on raid dps and all we do bring to a raid IS our dps; and no buffing for any other parses; I'm suprised that we dont have any sort of edge in terms of the damage we do.</DIV> <DIV>Not that I would trade my assa'splace for my wizard's spot, as I enjoy the difficulty of hitting good dps with my assa; but when I see my mostly -fabled assassin being outparsed by a primarily instance equpped swashbuckler - I really do feel like I'm getting the raw end of the stick. I'm parsing 12-1900 in a casual guild, rarely with a dirge; and mostly in non-optimised groups (the shortcomings of switchign from a raid guild to a casual guild) but still - its depressing seeing how hard I have to work for my dps when a guildy swashbuckler is outparsing me in worse gear, although with more AAs, and more str, and he's 2boxing a healer at the same time. :/</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I wouldnt mind a dev looking at us and saying ''this is where you are meant to be parsing'' rather than innuendo that we are higher than we should be, which I dont exactly believe - personally I think that either our class armour or AAs need to be more raid dps focused; although the basics are where they should be, and were pretty much balanced pre eof.. nowadays I can't see why an assassin should be brought, given that many other scouts offer good buffs/debuffs and/or similar dps (although not quite as good - pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] close)</DIV>

prayerwarrior

02-19-2007, 08:31 PM

<b>Well one thing i know is that the conj ember seed breaks assassain steath. if you have a conj in mt group for mit and they apply ember seed too group assassain in mt group for hate he will fail on 60% of his steath atempts.</b>

Graton

02-20-2007, 02:11 PM

<cite>prayerwarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>Well one thing i know is that the conj ember seed breaks assassain steath. if you have a conj in mt group for mit and they apply ember seed too group assassain in mt group for hate he will fail on 60% of his steath atempts.</b></blockquote> i've never had a problem with emberseed. maybe this bug only occurs when a raid is stupid enough to put an assassin in the MT group.

Zirlok

03-01-2007, 10:39 PM

<p>My problem here is that assassins really dont bring anything to a raid except their dps, and possibly hate transfer - but given that concealment actually lowers the hate our damage gives (and our big hitters are generally done while in concealment or just after a surveil) we're a poor choice for hate transfer compared to a swashy <span style="color: #ff0000">- Apply Poison - Have you ever checked on your parser of how much actual damage or % it does coming from the MT (if you were/are in the mt grp and your mt is a guard/zerk) ?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">If you have you a good mt working his ca's and auto attack you would see it counts for alot of their damage which ='s hate. </span></p><p>I really do feel like I'm getting the raw end of the stick. I'm parsing 12-1900 in a casual guild, rarely with a dirge; and mostly in non-optimised groups (the shortcomings of switchign from a raid guild to a casual guild) but still - its depressing seeing how hard I have to work for my dps when a guildy swashbuckler is outparsing me in worse gear, although with more AAs, and more str, <span style="color: #ff0000">- Now being in a non optimal dps scout grp in your raids does hurt and only way is to get your raid leaders to set up their grps more properly or go join a better raid guild that does. I do however agree EoF aa's are complete joke and should have been thought out more to what the majority of assassins playstyle is. Every assassin I talk to never says they solo alot and love the EoF aa's or that the ones they got made any noticable difference in their game.</span></p>

steelbadger

03-31-2007, 07:40 AM

I'd agree with the call for less "solo" AA's, anyone who chose an assassin so that they could solo deserves the debt that they will accrue <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kontholio

04-07-2007, 10:27 AM

what i dont understand is that a lvl 60 assassin can hit for 60+K , but me pretty [Removed for Content] and decapitate master1 my max hit is so far 28k, any explanations how to hit so hard ????

HellRaiserXX

04-07-2007, 02:50 PM

its because the leaderboards still show hits from when you could Duel a lvl one person and assassinate them for huge amounts of dmg. Cant do that anymore, but the leaderboards still show them. Pretty much anything over 35k is innacurate.

Kontholio

04-11-2007, 08:32 AM

Bweeeeh betetr the reset it .. that way we still have a chance to overdmg each other <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

StrummaTune

04-17-2007, 04:12 PM

Assassins are in a rough state at the moment. I raid with a guild that does 35k raid dps consistently and am doing 2-2.4k dps on zonewides, which is not bad, but is just not predator dps. The ranger in the guild that I raid with does 3.4k dps in a zonewide of Mistmoore Inner Sanctum...Our swashy does 2.5k... Rangers go 93+ hit percentage with auto-attack on high end bows such as Star-Darkened and Rigid Scale, with auto-attacks averaging at like 6.5k to 11.5k. Add 10% double attack from aa's, 25% double attack with illusionary arm...And you can double attack for more than a decap. This is every 4.5-5.0 seconds roughly based on 100% haste mod.. Self-buffed, with a 23% haste mod item and self-buff for 45 haste mod, 9 second bows are at 5.2 second delay.. So every 5.2 seconds a ranger auto-attacks for more than a killing blade or decap..and the ranged crit aa's in predator tree give them 22% crit, while melee crit is 13.9%. Plus, they're running 9x3 = 27% proc percentage on their bows + precision of the maestro, meaning every shot, almost, will proc a poison and/or Power of Marr on their Qeynos Kilij. It's just so insane. Assassins, the other predator, hit for about 75 hit percentage or more, based on their piercing/slashing buffs, but we don't have any hit % bonuses on our dual wields like Baz'kul and Tenderwood arrows do. I'd like to propose that there is no assassin out there doing 3.4-3.5k dps in any zonewide anywhere, especially not a zone like MMIS that has so many orange con mobs with high avoidance. This reaks of imbalance. Something must be done. I'm not too too worried because we did rock in KoS and now rangers rock, so I'm not gonna betray or do anything rash because I'm hoping that in expansions to come, we'll get the better end of the stick, and rangers and swash's will get a taste of the medicine that we've been drinkin, but if it does not change, then I'm sure many assassins will betray and/or quit. Just my thoughts. Reply if you are an assassin and parse over 3.4k in zonewides.

-=Hoss=-

04-18-2007, 01:36 AM

<p>Well, i parsed infinity in a single fight once. One shot, I hit it with decap and it died. Thats as close as I can come to your 3.5k zonewide. If I'd just left the raid after that and hung up my blades .....</p><p>-t</p>

mchristie

04-27-2007, 11:47 AM

I read some of this thread and I am seeing people saying Assassins are top dps, which is untrue! I used to be top dps, I mean even in EoF at first, but then the other scout classes started getting better weapons and are now beating me. I get between 1200dps-2000dps depending on group make up. The brigand is more then me consitently, he uses the cheldrak dagger, I have GDoH and RoD which I think is a good combination for weapons. It seems to me the brigand is so heavily reliable on double attack that being there on auto attack is doing most of his dmg, so its gonna be easier for him to maintain a higher dps consitently. My assassin's dmg come from mostly combat arts mean with the positional added to the mix makes us work our butts off just to do dps, I can not just stand there I gotta move around like mad also. Casters have it easy too just standing there. If there is an assassin out there that claims he/she is winning dps against these classes.... how? I just dont see it possible, prove me wrong please. EoF aa's are a joke to..... whole nother chapter on that topic though. Saev 70 Assassin 100AP Befallen - Order of the Black Dragon

Jayad

04-27-2007, 08:04 PM

If you're not parsing a lot higher than that, you haven't really seen what the class is capable of. You have to reconsider your own skills, gear, and group makeup to look for ways to improve. Yes, rogues rely more on auto-attack dmg, but that means that it's important for assassins to use their CAs correctly, in the right groups.

mchristie

05-05-2007, 12:50 PM

Sigh..... See this is the kinda reply I expected, you dont know what your saying and by simply claiming I need to reconsider my own skills and what not is the easiest reply possible. Other classes were upgraded with EoF it is as simple as that. If your gonna make excuses your in denial. I am being out parsed cause I am hitting the wrong combat arts in the wrong order? Wow there must be some secret order that unleashes more dps then I have ever seen. My own skills? What hitting combat arts is a hard skill? Gear? My gear is on par with other scouts in my guild. Group make up? thats why I gave a big range.... I dont decide my groups at raids. I am not the guild leader. Vague. Please if your gonna respond do not throw some trash at me. Saev Eriss on Befallen

Soulhunt

06-17-2007, 03:30 AM

Kontholio

06-18-2007, 05:34 AM

my question is how can u get an parse over 2k in MMIS for example , im parsing around 1400 so there has to be a way to make me better parse , so if you have any suggestions plz say so =(

K'aldar

06-18-2007, 12:49 PM

only read some of this so don't be too hard on me. As a whole I don't see the class as being in all that bad of shape.. with my guild's raid dps being around 30k normally(could be higher with some of us pulling most of the raid along, few of the dpsers are friends of guild leaders so even though they're not the best they get a consistant spot).. I can average 2400-2800, with some nice spikes to high 3k/low 4k(not talking about super low health raid mobs where you can get easy dps <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) I'm normally 1st or 2nd on the raidwide parse.. with the swash and ranger taking the spots around me respectively depending on which raid. I'm always in either MT or OT group, with the swash being in the other, and the ranger in a dps group with an illusionist for IA. The only real complaint I have is that I played the swash on a few raids, and they have equal dps but SO MUCH more utility. For raids they have at least 5 pretty nice debuffs, not to mention swipe aa for some really nice help on some named raid mobs with nasty ae's, and a better hate transfer than us... and the right ca setup to be the perfect class to tank the scout mob in MMIS. i'd like to either get a decent dps boost or some added utility to compare a little more with their class. Anyway where I was going with this is our dps isn't all that bad by any means, its the fact that whereas the only thing we have is dps compared to other classes, it doesn't stand out from them. With no utility our dps should be a nice margine above theirs.

grish

06-18-2007, 01:29 PM

Mrchristie, I know your post is old but what I think they tried to say was maybe consider your skill orders, make sure you have your masters and do things like read the forums for advice. Also remember you are co-dependant on other classes in your raid, so something like not being with a bard or illu and not having brigands can really throw a wrench in your dps. Also if your tank poorly positions mobs or if it is an encounter, or a poorly stacked encounter other classes may do more damage since they have wider range AE's. So many outside factors aside from your own skill can affect your parses. Just some simple tips from me are make sure you use maligant mark and cloaked assasult whenever you can, keep using a nice slow weapon. Provided you took the hemo AA make sure you use grandmasters hemo and for the sake of your power put 2 power proc adorns on your weapons. My personal thoughts is assassins currently are where we need to be, its other classes that need tweaking. I would love to be able to transfer hate out of group, or be able to apply poison out of group. Our guild currently parses 22k-25k My contribution to the parse ranging from about 2.2-2.4k on most encounters or groups (often higher if i get a bard and illu). Ranger and Swash being the only competition I get at the high end. I expect the upcoming patch to smack the rogues a good amount and you will see us pull away from them a bit.

TheRisingstorm

06-21-2007, 06:17 AM

<p>Its hard not to notice that other classes are more regularly seen topping the parses, brigs, rangers and especially swashy's. And it's also clear to see that it's since EOF that they have been gaining on us. But just think how long we have had it easy. We were way ahead of the field without even trying. At least we now have somthing to challenge us. No more lazily spamming CA's, we have to think ahead and plan our moves. We can still top the parses - possibly not everywhere, but where would the fun in that be.</p><p>It's been mentioned that all we have to offer tho is DPS. IMO this is total crap! We have one of the biggest combined debuffs in the game (poison) for the warlocks out there. And as sombody has already mentioned, Our poison proc on a group member is not as useless as it seems. Looking at the parses, it can be up to 7% of a decent DPS'ers total damage.</p><p> The only failing I do think we have that may need looking at is our requirement for other classes for us to realy shine. We need far more specific classes (illu <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) than others, and as long as you have a raid leader who knows this, your fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Aker

06-21-2007, 09:42 AM

<cite>TheRisingstorm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its hard not to notice that other classes are more regularly seen topping the parses, brigs, rangers and especially swashy's. And it's also clear to see that it's since EOF that they have been gaining on us. But just think how long we have had it easy. We were way ahead of the field without even trying. At least we now have somthing to challenge us. No more lazily spamming CA's, we have to think ahead and plan our moves. We can still top the parses - possibly not everywhere, but where would the fun in that be.</p><p>It's been mentioned that all we have to offer tho is DPS. IMO this is total crap! We have one of the biggest combined debuffs in the game (poison) for the warlocks out there. And as sombody has already mentioned, Our poison proc on a group member is not as useless as it seems. Looking at the parses, it can be up to 7% of a decent DPS'ers total damage.</p><p> The only failing I do think we have that may need looking at is our requirement for other classes for us to realy shine. We need far more specific classes (illu <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) than others, and as long as you have a raid leader who knows this, your fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Only problem is there are some classes who offer more then us at the moment and if we have 1 illu in raid my chances to get in group with him are what? Mages want TC, ranger will get IA before me... Don't want to continue this so this not turn in another rage to some classes thread like we have to many on forum now.

Vydar

06-21-2007, 07:19 PM

Aker@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote><cite>TheRisingstorm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its hard not to notice that other classes are more regularly seen topping the parses, brigs, rangers and especially swashy's. And it's also clear to see that it's since EOF that they have been gaining on us. But just think how long we have had it easy. We were way ahead of the field without even trying. At least we now have somthing to challenge us. No more lazily spamming CA's, we have to think ahead and plan our moves. We can still top the parses - possibly not everywhere, but where would the fun in that be.</p><p>It's been mentioned that all we have to offer tho is DPS. IMO this is total crap! We have one of the biggest combined debuffs in the game (poison) for the warlocks out there. And as sombody has already mentioned, Our poison proc on a group member is not as useless as it seems. Looking at the parses, it can be up to 7% of a decent DPS'ers total damage.</p><p> The only failing I do think we have that may need looking at is our requirement for other classes for us to realy shine. We need far more specific classes (illu <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) than others, and as long as you have a raid leader who knows this, your fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Only problem is there are some classes who offer more then us at the moment and if we have 1 illu in raid my chances to get in group with him are what? Mages want TC, ranger will get IA before me... Don't want to continue this so this not turn in another rage to some classes thread like we have to many on forum now. </blockquote>It's tough being on a PvP server for such things... being Freeport aligned means no Illusionist, and while Coercer has a lot to offer, not quite the same. I rely almost totally on dirge buffs/CoB (I dual box my dirge, I'm MT assassin since I out parse everyone else on all of our raids, the 29% threat transfer is beautiful) for my buffs. Since I'm MT group and not melee dps group, I don't get inquis or fury buffs, either... so I have to work my [Removed for Content] off to stay top parser. The necro's are always complaining that I keep beating them... but its nice to have some competition <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

-Arctura-

08-09-2007, 07:59 PM

<cite>Jakron wrote:</cite><blockquote> ((awesome post about offensive stance and procs. Rangers are totally overwhelming and assassin offensive stance suxx0rs! Still! <span style="color: #ccffff">very nice post elv</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> Alright onto proc buffs. </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> Lets take a wild assumption and say The assassin offensive stance proc was actualy workin as intended. and trust me as first hand , it is not. this ability during 1 hour of parsing with the buff running the whole time through proced an astounding 26 times.....</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> yes</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #66ff00"><b>26 times in an hour.</b></span><span style="color: #ccffff"> the odds of this happening are so slim to none it cannot be working as intended.</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> ( if i had the original parse id post it. sadly i did not save it.)</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> the ranger buff in an hour will proc .....7 times for every 10 shots taken on average. the math for figuring this out will be explained ina bit. but moving on..</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> lets do a bit of comparing with our counterpart Ranger</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> Ranger Offensive stance adept 1</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #6633ff"><b><u>Archers Frenzy</u></b></span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <ul> <li><span style="color: #ccffff">On Successful ranged attack this spell has a </span><span style="color: #ccffff"><b><span style="color: #6633ff">30%</span> </b></span><span style="color: #ccffff">chance to cast Quick shot on target of attack.</span></li> <li><span style="color: #ccffff">Inflicts</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #6633ff"><b>432</b></span><span style="color: #6633ff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff">Melee damage on target.</span></li> <li><span style="color: #ccffff">Decreases Defense of Caster by 17.7</span></li> <li><span style="color: #ccffff">Increases Slashing,Peircing,</span><span style="color: #ccffff"><i>Crushing.......</i></span><span style="color: #ccffff">and Ranged of caster by 32</span></li> </ul> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> Alright now the assassin's Offensive stance at adept 1.</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #996600"><u><b>Whirling Blades</b></u></span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <ul> <li><span style="color: #ccffff"> On Successful Melee attack thsi spell has a </span><span style="color: #996600"><b>10%</b></span><span style="color: #ccffff"> chance to cast Swipe on target of attack.</span></li> <li><span style="color: #ccffff"> Inflicts</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #996600"><b>251-418</b></span><span style="color: #ccffff"><span style="color: #996600"> </span>Melee damage on target.</span></li> <li><span style="color: #ccffff"> Decreases Defense of Caster by 17.7</span></li> <li><span style="color: #ccffff"> increeases Slashing,Peircing,</span><span style="color: #ccffff"><i>Crushing</i></span><span style="color: #ccffff">....and Ranged of caster by 32</span></li> </ul><span style="color: #ccffff"> k time for to mention a few things.</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> Procs do not proc for the listed % they never have. </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> To find a procs actual rate you follow this formula (weapon delay/3) x proc % = proc rate</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> ex. Prismatic Swiftblade = (1.2/3) x 7 = 2.8% actual proc rate.</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> so lets take a few normal weapons and figure this out.</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> 1.5 spd 1.7 spd and 2.4 spd weapons for an assassin on our Offensive buff come out to</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #996600"><b>5%....5.66%....and 8% actual proc rate.</b></span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> Now we take the ranger buff and apply it to a long bow 7spd and shortbow 4.5 spd</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"><b><span style="color: #6633ff">70%.... and 45% actual proc rate.</span> </b></span><span style="color: #ccffff">Another thing to note is the damage. our proc does less damage and has a damage range.</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> Their proc will </span><span style="color: #66ff00"><b>ALWAYS</b></span><span style="color: #ccffff"> yeild much much more dps.</span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"></span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff">Ok keeping in mind that our buff is not working right. if our Buff worked as intended their proc will still work almost 10 fold more often then ours would... </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> SOE's reasoning behind this is probably that bows have a shorter Delay thus why they have given them a much larger proc rate. But as this formula clearly shows this logic does not hold true. so why did they give them a better proc.? who knows..... Bows attack slow. we all use them we all know. and do to the nerf of the assassins haste buffs we will attack so slow under our own power it feels like we are using a bow in the firstplace. rangers still get haste. making their proc yet even more usefull. Rangers also have multiple ranged abilities that strike the target 1-3 times in a single shot. and as we all know abilities like this are just Fodder for procs. in a single shot a ranger can do astounding damage. for reference lets say a ranger has 2 proc weapon dulies and proc bow and everything lands 300/500/800 damage arrow <b>+Procs</b> 100-400 damage weapon proc 100-400 damage weapon proc 100-400 damage weapon proc 430 damage buff 300 damage poison 50 damage poison <b>x3</b> whew yes thats alot of damage on a 1 minute recast....... awsome! /sigh </span><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><p><span style="color: #ccffff"> This is highly overpowering. The assassin proc buff would need to be Raised in % chance to proc AND be fixed as is its not even working correctly. this is just me talking about 1 of our abilities . pls fix do not make me have to post every single thing soe. i do not have the time nor the patience to list off everysingle thing i spent a month telling you was broken and/or etc to have things end up like this in the end </span></p> <p><span style="color: #ccffff">assassin dps is is not teir 1 dps as you wanna tell us it is. your numbers are wrong. watch us first hand and you will know the true dps of an assassin. we are teir3 maybe 2 at best when assassinate's 15 minute timer is up. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #ccffff">to restore us to teir was dps where we belong and were promised our timers need to be looked at. our broken abilities need to be looked at and our damage on our INSANE long timer abilties needs ot be looked at. i have bugged every single thing posted here. i have feedbacked every single thing posted here. includding this proc buff not working for over a month. its time things change and you listen to the community. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span></p> <p><span style="color: #ccffff">o and why give predators <i>CRUSHING</i> skill in our buffs? come on now...... </span></p> <span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><p><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span> <span style="color: #ccffff"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ccffff"> </span><span style="color: #ccffff"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Jakron on 10-10-2005 12:20 AM</blockquote> </p>